Braves fans- Dale Murphy up for HOF election again

[Todd4State]

He's on the veteran's committee Modern Era ballot along with Dave Parker (Calhoun City, MS!), Ted Simmons who as a Cardinals fan I think should be in, Dwight Evans- one of the best OF arms of all time, and Lou Whitaker who is one of the best second basemen of all time. The rest- Steve Garvey who was a pretty boy but a really good defensive first baseman, Don Mattingly who was a great hitter, Thurman Munson who was probably going to have a borderline HOF career before passing away tragically and Tommy John who is best known for....having Tommy John surgery. Marvin Miller was a player's rep.

75% of the vote gets you in!


My personal votes:

1. Dale Murphy

2. Ted Simmons

3. Dave Parker

[TUSK]

He's on the veteran's committee Modern Era ballot along with Dave Parker (Calhoun City, MS!), Ted Simmons who as a Cardinals fan I think should be in, Dwight Evans- one of the best OF arms of all time, and Lou Whitaker who is one of the best second basemen of all time. The rest- Steve Garvey who was a pretty boy but a really good defensive first baseman, Don Mattingly who was a great hitter, Thurman Munson who was probably going to have a borderline HOF career before passing away tragically and Tommy John who is best known for....having Tommy John surgery. Marvin Miller was a player's rep.

75% of the vote gets you in!


My personal votes:

1. Dale Murphy

2. Ted Simmons

3. Dave Parker

https://media1.giphy.com/media/10KTsIcjwVGqaI/source.gif

[Todd4State]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/10KTsIcjwVGqaI/source.gif

Fan of Dave Parker?

[TUSK]

Fan of Dave Parker?

When I was knee high to a grasshopper, I listened to KDKA??? Out of Pittsburgh. I became a short term, casual Steelers, Pirates & Penguins fan. Loved the Cobra! Dude had a cannon at which even Shotgun would marvel....

[Commercecomet24]

When I was knee high to a grasshopper, I listened to KDKA??? Out of Pittsburgh. I became a short term, casual Steelers, Pirates & Penguins fan. Loved the Cobra! Dude had a cannon at which even Shotgun would marvel....

Lol love the shotgun reference. I'm sure he would find something wrong with Parker's mechanics though!

I'd vote for Murph, Simmons, Whitaker and Parker.

[TUSK]

Lol love the shotgun reference. I'm sure he would find something wrong with Parker's mechanics though!

I'd vote for Murph, Simmons, Whitaker and Parker.

I’m not a baseball guy, buddy. But you’ve lost your ever-luvin-mind!

If you’d paid any attention, you’d know that Murphy’s inter coaxial rotation on his throws from the warning track in stadiums with >2561’ elevation was vastly inferior to that of Da Kobra!!!!

Boooooooooo

[Commercecomet24]

I’m not a baseball guy, buddy. But you’ve lost your ever-luvin-mind!

If you’d paid any attention, you’d know that Murphy’s inter coaxial rotation on his throws from the warning track in stadiums with >2561’ elevation was vastly inferior to that of Da Kobra!!!!

Boooooooooo

Hahaha!!!! Nice!

[parabrave]

Murph and Dave Parker. Munson also.

[BrunswickDawg]

Honestly, I'd put all of them in. All of them had 3-5 year periods where they were the best at their positions and arguably in MLB. HOF is where football does it right and baseball gets it wrong.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Dale Murphy belongs in The HOF. He has good numbers, but he also sold a lot of people on the game. Cable TV showed up, WTBS showed the Braves, and Murph was the star player. And he behaved admirably. He was good for the game in more ways than one.

[Rex54]

They need to go back and pull Harold Baines out of the HOF - what a joke that was. If Baines is in, Murphy should be... but neither are HOF’s.

[shoeless joe]

They need to go back and pull Harold Baines out of the HOF - what a joke that was. If Baines is in, Murphy should be... but neither are HOF’s.

My thoughts as well. The HOF is beginning to water itself down. Most people don’t really argue who should be in or out based on merit but instead argue it based on who is currently in. The Murphy and mcgriff arguments are evidence of this. I don’t know that either should be in but if trammel, Morris, baines, Puckett, etc are in then those guys SHOULD be in.

It’s really gotten to where if you were the fan favorite of a team, were an all star a few times, and won a World Series then you should be in. Which, to me, in not what the HOF is all about.

I could go on about this for days...

[Tbonewannabe]

Mattingly was my favorite player growing up but injuries shortened his career to the point that he shouldn't be in. Without the back problems, he would have gotten the numbers.

[Commercecomet24]

My thoughts as well. The HOF is beginning to water itself down. Most people don’t really argue who should be in or out based on merit but instead argue it based on who is currently in. The Murphy and mcgriff arguments are evidence of this. I don’t know that either should be in but if trammel, Morris, baines, Puckett, etc are in then those guys SHOULD be in.

It’s really gotten to where if you were the fan favorite of a team, were an all star a few times, and won a World Series then you should be in. Which, to me, in not what the HOF is all about.

I could go on about this for days...

This is exactly how I see it as well! It's supposed to be for only the elite but is becoming watered down and it really started years ago with the veterans committee voting in all their old cronies who weren't necessarily elite players. Frankie Frisch was a big culprit in getting people in who weren't really Hall worthy. There's so many discussion you can have about the Hall Of Fame and those discussions are another thing that makes baseball such an awesome sport!

Bill James wrote a book years ago called The Politics of Glory and it's a great read. It explores the exact things you just mentioned. If you love the history of the game and the players its a great book. He even says it's supposed to be a Hall of Greatness not a Hall of Goodness.

[FISHDAWG]

Screw em all .... I still want Pete

[Tbonewannabe]

Screw em all .... I still want Pete

Pete for sure. Then you have Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Raffy, Sosa, and anyone else kept out due to the dark cloud of "steroids". It is hilarious to me that Bagwell got in when he looks like a prototypical steroid user.

[BrunswickDawg]

This is exactly how I see it as well! It's supposed to be for only the elite but is becoming watered down and it really started years ago with the veterans committee voting in all their old cronies who weren't necessarily elite players. Frankie Frisch was a big culprit in getting people in who weren't really Hall worthy. There's so many discussion you can have about the Hall Of Fame and those discussions are another thing that makes baseball such an awesome sport!

Bill James wrote a book years ago called The Politics of Glory and it's a great read. It explores the exact things you just mentioned. If you love the history of the game and the players its a great book. He even says it's supposed to be a Hall of Greatness not a Hall of Goodness.

Wow - a rare baseball item that I disagree with you about! I think the HOF has been was too strict, and should let more in. So much of baseball is arbitrarily measured by statistics that it doesn't capture the importance that a player provides with consistency and leadership. Dale Murphy is a perfect example. 2 time MVP, 7 time All-Star, I think 3 time ASG vote leader of all players, was arguably the best player in baseball for about 5 years. For anyone born prior to 1983, he IS the Atlanta Braves. But, he "only" hit 398 HR; "only" had 1266 RBIs, he "only" hit .265 in his career, so he's not a HOF. Just flat wrong. And every team, over roughly every decade has a player like that.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Dale Murphy belongs in The HOF. He has good numbers, but he also sold a lot of people on the game. Cable TV showed up, WTBS showed the Braves, and Murph was the star player. And he behaved admirably. He was good for the game in more ways than one.

Dale Murphy does not belong in the hall.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Wow - a rare baseball item that I disagree with you about! I think the HOF has been was too strict, and should let more in. So much of baseball is arbitrarily measured by statistics that it doesn't capture the importance that a player provides with consistency and leadership. Dale Murphy is a perfect example. 2 time MVP, 7 time All-Star, I think 3 time ASG vote leader of all players, was arguably the best player in baseball for about 5 years. For anyone born prior to 1983, he IS the Atlanta Braves. But, he "only" hit 398 HR; "only" had 1266 RBIs, he "only" hit .265 in his career, so he's not a HOF. Just flat wrong. And every team, over roughly every decade has a player like that.

alright, you convinced me. He should be in. 2 time MVPs should get in, regardless if they were juicing or betting on games.

[Political Hack]

In.

[Commercecomet24]

Wow - a rare baseball item that I disagree with you about! I think the HOF has been was too strict, and should let more in. So much of baseball is arbitrarily measured by statistics that it doesn't capture the importance that a player provides with consistency and leadership. Dale Murphy is a perfect example. 2 time MVP, 7 time All-Star, I think 3 time ASG vote leader of all players, was arguably the best player in baseball for about 5 years. For anyone born prior to 1983, he IS the Atlanta Braves. But, he "only" hit 398 HR; "only" had 1266 RBIs, he "only" hit .265 in his career, so he's not a HOF. Just flat wrong. And every team, over roughly every decade has a player like that.

Here's where it gets fun though. I personally don't look at just statistics(it's a great baseline to start with though as obviously some players statistics make you not have to look any further). I ask myself was the player a dominate player? Was he considered the best player in his league for multiple years? Was he the best player at his position for multiple years? I think dominating in post season play should be considered for some players as well. This is why although Murphs career statistics are not what others are he checks these boxes: Was he dominate for multiple years? Yes. 2 MVPS. Was he considered the best player in his league for multiple years? Yes. see 2 MVPS plus multiple all star games and gold gloves. Was he the best player at his position for multiple years? Yes Obviously. So While Murphs career statistics are not mind blowing, when added with the other evaluations and as a great ambassador for the game, he should be in the Hall.

Some players that are in the Hall don't have the stats or check the other boxes,that's what I'm referring to as being watered down.

[BrunswickDawg]

Here's where it gets fun though. I personally don't look at just statistics(it's a great baseline to start with though as obviously some players statistics make you not have to look any further). I ask myself was the player a dominate player? Was he considered the best player in his league for multiple years? Was he the best player at his position for multiple years? I think dominating in post season play should be considered for some players as well. This is why although Murphs career statistics are not what others are he checks these boxes: Was he dominate for multiple years? Yes. 2 MVPS. Was he considered the best player in his league for multiple years? Yes. see 2 MVPS plus multiple all star games and gold gloves. Was he the best player at his position for multiple years? Yes Obviously. So While Murphs career statistics are not mind blowing, when added with the other evaluations and as a great ambassador for the game, he should be in the Hall.

Some players that are in the Hall don't have the stats or check the other boxes,that's what I'm referring to as being watered down.

I think something else that can be factored in is injury. Did a player who checked all those boxes you listed get hurt and retire or have diminished career after a noted major injury. Mattingly falls in that category for me - MVP, 6 AS, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers. I'll go toe to toe with anyone arguing that from '83 - '88 he was the best hitter in baseball. I don't care what Boggs and Gwynn were doing. He hit for average AND power. But, after he hurt his back in '88 he never fully recovered, then really went down hill after he hurt it again in '90. And yet, he still got top 20 votes for MVP in '93 & '94 when all he could do was be team captain and play Gold glove level defense and hit .300. Dude could rake.

[shoeless joe]

This thread has made me long for the days of late 80s early 90s baseball. At that time in my life there was NOTHING that compare to the MLB. All the boys that lived around would get together and play...of course we had to mimic the stances of whatever player we were. And if it was too cold or too rainy to play outside we’d have an RBI 3 tourney goin on on the Nintendo

I remember watching eck cover first and first pump to end the 89 series, I remember when every Saturday game had either the pirates or the cardinals playing, I remember Morris shoving it in game 7 (not to mention hrbeck assaulting gant), I remember al the fun of 92 NLCS. Damn, I love the game in those days and those players! But maybe that’s for another thread...

[OLJWales]

I was at Yankee stadium in '86 when Tommy John made his "comeback " after the surgery. He got the W over the Royals.

[Fader21]

I agree with the posters who said the HOF is getting watered down. Soon you will see the likes of Steve Nebraska, and Roger Dorn in there.

[BrunswickDawg]

I agree with the posters who said the HOF is getting watered down. Soon you will see the likes of Steve Nebraska, and Roger Dorn in there.

No way Dorn gets in. Not with that "Ole" BS he does on defense.

[Commercecomet24]

This thread has made me long for the days of late 80s early 90s baseball. At that time in my life there was NOTHING that compare to the MLB. All the boys that lived around would get together and play...of course we had to mimic the stances of whatever player we were. And if it was too cold or too rainy to play outside we’d have an RBI 3 tourney goin on on the Nintendo

I remember watching eck cover first and first pump to end the 89 series, I remember when every Saturday game had either the pirates or the cardinals playing, I remember Morris shoving it in game 7 (not to mention hrbeck assaulting gant), I remember al the fun of 92 NLCS. Damn, I love the game in those days and those players! But maybe that’s for another thread...

I'm right with ya accept my are the 70's and 80's lol. I remember playing "World Series" in the neighborhood and we made up the lineups and kept stats. Was a wonderful time to be a young boy! I loved the 90s too! Not quite the same now with kids playing each other over the internet. I could literally talk baseball all day. Need more threads like these!

[Commercecomet24]

I think something else that can be factored in is injury. Did a player who checked all those boxes you listed get hurt and retire or have diminished career after a noted major injury. Mattingly falls in that category for me - MVP, 6 AS, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers. I'll go toe to toe with anyone arguing that from '83 - '88 he was the best hitter in baseball. I don't care what Boggs and Gwynn were doing. He hit for average AND power. But, after he hurt his back in '88 he never fully recovered, then really went down hill after he hurt it again in '90. And yet, he still got top 20 votes for MVP in '93 & '94 when all he could do was be team captain and play Gold glove level defense and hit .300. Dude could rake.

Donny Baseball was certainly one of the most dominant hitter of that era. If he hadn't got hurt no telling what kind of numbers he would've put up. He was and extra base machine.

[OLJWales]

I just can't really explain why my interest in MLB & NFL has dwindled as far as it has. Used to go to Mets games in Jackson when Davey Johnson was the coach and tons of players that eventually went to Flushing and won a World Series. They won back to back Texas League Championships and the stadium looked like a mini Shea.

Now if asked, I couldn't tell you who the HC was for them or any damned player. The only reason I watch NFL now (used to not be that way) is if Dak & the Boys are playing. Will also tune in sometimes if the Saints are playing and doing well.