To be objective

[Todd4State]

What would this year have looked like:

1. With a healthy Tommy Stevens.

2. A full season of the defense with Gay, Autry, and Murphy.

I bet we would be at least two wins better right now. And likely with more competitive losses as well to Auburn and LSU.

You could make a case that this year is similar to 2016 or 2013 in some ways. Yes there are concerns- discipline and special teams need to be addressed. I?m not dodging that at all. S&C as well.

But like 2016 we are adding in a lot of JUCO?s next year. Will they be enough to give us a boost in 2020? We also drop the SEC East blue bloods for a few years- Mizzou in Starkville and Vanderbilt on the road in 2021.

If we clean up a few things and maybe have a little bit better fortune with injuries we could go on another nice run for a couple of years. Really it?s about time for us to have a dream season.

[Cooterpoot]

We played a terrible team. It changes nothing. And we returned enough this isn’t a rebuild. Last year problems were???? Jo needs to win 3 more games. I still believe we’re going to have a new coach next year.

[cheewgumm]

We?ve had some good games against bad teams. We have no idea how any of them would have done against anyone good because it hasn?t happened.

Moorhead will be here for 1-2 more. We have to hope he figures it out. I don?t believe based on beating Arkansas. Our fans quickly think we have it figured out but I?ve seen this move a few times before.

Let?s see that happens against Ole Miss.

[cheewgumm]

Also the dream season was last year but he absolutely destroyed that.

The common theme I see with his offense is : if we have decidedly more talent, it looks good. If we don?t, it?s hard to watch. I can?t think of a game that this rule has not played out.

[MetEdDawg]

What would this year have looked like:

1. With a healthy Tommy Stevens.

2. A full season of the defense with Gay, Autry, and Murphy.

I bet we would be at least two wins better right now. And likely with more competitive losses as well to Auburn and LSU.

You could make a case that this year is similar to 2016 or 2013 in some ways. Yes there are concerns- discipline and special teams need to be addressed. I?m not dodging that at all. S&C as well.

But like 2016 we are adding in a lot of JUCO?s next year. Will they be enough to give us a boost in 2020? We also drop the SEC East blue bloods for a few years- Mizzou in Starkville and Vanderbilt on the road in 2021.

If we clean up a few things and maybe have a little bit better fortune with injuries we could go on another nice run for a couple of years. Really it?s about time for us to have a dream season.

Moorhead still has a lot to fix. I think the toughness, physicality, and looking prepared aspect is something he's got to address if he happens to stay.

But I'm with you on this. It would be stupid to think this year wouldn't look different if Stevens were completely healthy and tutor gate doesn't happen. Gay, Autry, and Murphy being available for all 12 games would have made a massive difference for our defense and that's just plain facts. Then add in the fact we lost one of our starting CBs for the year. Dantzler has been out some. His backup has been out. Lost a few guys on the OL for a game or 2.

And you look at the number of not just starters out, but the number of backups that could have played or alternated and that depth issue has not helped. So folks say we returned enough. But a lot of what we returned has only played in 3 games or has been injured. My hope is that people can realize that while there are still things to fix, 7-6 given what we've had, would at least give us hope this can be fixed. Because this year was a rebuild compared to last year no matter what other folks on this board say. And that rebuild was exacerbated by the injuries and the tutor gate.

[msugolf]

Moorhead still has a lot to fix. I think the toughness, physicality, and looking prepared aspect is something he's got to address if he happens to stay.

But I'm with you on this. It would be stupid to think this year wouldn't look different if Stevens were completely healthy and tutor gate doesn't happen. Gay, Autry, and Murphy being available for all 12 games would have made a massive difference for our defense and that's just plain facts. Then add in the fact we lost one of our starting CBs for the year. Dantzler has been out some. His backup has been out. Lost a few guys on the OL for a game or 2.

And you look at the number of not just starters out, but the number of backups that could have played or alternated and that depth issue has not helped. So folks say we returned enough. But a lot of what we returned has only played in 3 games or has been injured. My hope is that people can realize that while there are still things to fix, 7-6 given what we've had, would at least give us hope this can be fixed. Because this year was a rebuild compared to last year no matter what other folks on this board say. And that rebuild was exacerbated by the injuries and the tutor gate.

If this year is a rebuild, then next year will be demolition.

[Sienfield]

and if we had about 25 four and five star players what could we do? You deal with what you have. Tutor gate didn't effect the offense and that is a big part of the problem with this team. Without a run game we ain't winning and that was the problem in some of the games. A win over Arkansas doesn't change things. The way we won helps some but let's let it play out and see where we are. We get to a bowl while playing good JoMo probable deserves a little more rope.

[basedog]

Arkansas may be the worse sec football team I've watched play over the last 20 years or so, name me one worse?

But in saying this, Tommy Stevens could have helped us this year and hopefully we will win the next 2/3, go to a bowl and win it.

I'm not convinced Joe is our answer but I'm still waiting to finish the season. I was saying we would win 6-8 games, but say and believe what has been said before, tutor gate, S&C/Special team coaches, and injuries coast us at least one loss maybe two games.

IF Joe is back we gotta make a few assistant coach changes.

Winning is the answer, I sure hope we win and go bowling. We still have this chance, Stevens and Hill give us that chance imo.

[1bigdawg]

Beating Arkansas did not tell me much. Beating them badly helped though.

The real tell will be in our last two SEC games. Can we look decent against Alabama: probably not. If we do, it would show progress.

Can we beat an Ole Miss team that has a similar level of talent as we do - at home? I think Ole Miss is a better football team than us. Their losses have been much closer than ours and they seem more hard-nosed. Beating them will give me at least some hope for the future.

Color me "not sold on Moorhead," but will wait out the season.

[Maroonthirteen]

If we have all hands on deck and healthy .... and coached up... I’d say we have two additional wins over KState and Tennessee. Also we would be heavy favorites vs OM.

[Tbonewannabe]

His offense has looked great against crap teams. What does it look like when Bama shuts down the run game?

[MetEdDawg]

If this year is a rebuild, then next year will be demolition.

Why? It's possible we get the majority of impactful juniors back. Shrader at QB. I think Witherspoon will be fine plus Walker and hopefully Marks if Hill decides to leave. WR will be concerning. OL will have some parts.

DL brings a lot back. LB hopefully brings back both Gay and Errol. Secondary is Dantzler, Jones/Emerson, Murphy, and a few others.

We've got pieces next year to get 8 wins, especially with our swing games switching home. So if we return a lot of our juniors they we are in good shape. If they all leave (Hill, Errol, Gay, Dantzler) then yes next year could be a little difficult no matter who the coach is.

[Lance Harbor]

Yep. Though I'd argue MSU has more talent than KState. And yes, sadly, I've been to Gloster. Pine Hills Academy represent.


Also the dream season was last year but he absolutely destroyed that.

The common theme I see with his offense is : if we have decidedly more talent, it looks good. If we don?t, it?s hard to watch. I can?t think of a game that this rule has not played out.

[TrapGame]

We beat a terrible Arkansas team and everybody starts playing What If? We looked like dog shit this season when it mattered. This Arkansas game meant nothing.

[HoopsDawg]

If we have all hands on deck and healthy .... and coached up... I’d say we have two additional wins over KState and Tennessee. Also we would be heavy favorites vs OM.

We had all hands on deck vs UT.

[R2Dawg]

We had all hands on deck vs UT.

Very true which is probably why we only allowed 20. We did waste 1st half on Stevens at QB. Shrader plays whole game I think we win that one by a hair.

[R2Dawg]

Moorhead still has a lot to fix. I think the toughness, physicality, and looking prepared aspect is something he's got to address if he happens to stay.

But I'm with you on this. It would be stupid to think this year wouldn't look different if Stevens were completely healthy and tutor gate doesn't happen. Gay, Autry, and Murphy being available for all 12 games would have made a massive difference for our defense and that's just plain facts. Then add in the fact we lost one of our starting CBs for the year. Dantzler has been out some. His backup has been out. Lost a few guys on the OL for a game or 2.

And you look at the number of not just starters out, but the number of backups that could have played or alternated and that depth issue has not helped. So folks say we returned enough. But a lot of what we returned has only played in 3 games or has been injured. My hope is that people can realize that while there are still things to fix, 7-6 given what we've had, would at least give us hope this can be fixed. Because this year was a rebuild compared to last year no matter what other folks on this board say. And that rebuild was exacerbated by the injuries and the tutor gate.

Agree. Not going to look back at all the what ifs. Many of those are on Joe but we've beat those to death. But give this team credit they came out and dominated an SEC team on the road. For anyone, especially where we are, that is not a given and took some effort. We still got issues but at least we have life for another day.

Lets get 6-7 wins before year is over (including bowl for those that think I'm predicting Bama upset - not).

[gravedigger]

What would this year have looked like:

1. With a healthy Tommy Stevens.

2. A full season of the defense with Gay, Autry, and Murphy.

I bet we would be at least two wins better right now. And likely with more competitive losses as well to Auburn and LSU.

You could make a case that this year is similar to 2016 or 2013 in some ways. Yes there are concerns- discipline and special teams need to be addressed. I?m not dodging that at all. S&C as well.

But like 2016 we are adding in a lot of JUCO?s next year. Will they be enough to give us a boost in 2020? We also drop the SEC East blue bloods for a few years- Mizzou in Starkville and Vanderbilt on the road in 2021.

If we clean up a few things and maybe have a little bit better fortune with injuries we could go on another nice run for a couple of years. Really it?s about time for us to have a dream season.

Very level headed post. Of course, great bounces happen to bad teams and the opposite is true too.

I tend to think we are just an average team who had a few bad breaks in suspensions and injuries.

[CoachT14]

Moorhead still has a lot to fix. I think the toughness, physicality, and looking prepared aspect is something he's got to address if he happens to stay.

But I'm with you on this. It would be stupid to think this year wouldn't look different if Stevens were completely healthy and tutor gate doesn't happen. Gay, Autry, and Murphy being available for all 12 games would have made a massive difference for our defense and that's just plain facts. Then add in the fact we lost one of our starting CBs for the year. Dantzler has been out some. His backup has been out. Lost a few guys on the OL for a game or 2.

And you look at the number of not just starters out, but the number of backups that could have played or alternated and that depth issue has not helped. So folks say we returned enough. But a lot of what we returned has only played in 3 games or has been injured. My hope is that people can realize that while there are still things to fix, 7-6 given what we've had, would at least give us hope this can be fixed. Because this year was a rebuild compared to last year no matter what other folks on this board say. And that rebuild was exacerbated by the injuries and the tutor gate.

What the point really should be is that if Moorhead doesn't completely screw the pooch last season and wins like he should have with that team instead of talking about wanting to Fire Slomo, we are actually allowing tutor gate and injuries to be an excuse. We are following a season of wasted talent and disappointment with another season of wasted talent and disappoint. And that's only if we go 6-6. I get it, I know a lot of folks said 6-6, but I can't imagine those 6-6 folks thought we'd be this bad sans Arkansas. Let's be honest, yesterday is the only game the entire year we actually dominated anyone. Even USM and ULL weren't complete dominations. Moorhead just has no good will with the majority of our fan base, anybody trying to compare any of Mullen years with the last two are way off base. They don't compare, you're discussing a veteran coach who'd done a lot before his first let down year (2013) and second let down year (2016). Moorhead has had two let down years already without any good/exceeding expectation years.

And anybody who changed their mind yesterday against that awful opponent, you're just as bad as the negative fair weather fans. That game yesterday should do nothing to retract from how absolute abysmal this hire has been currently and if it does change your mind, then you're part of the problem with why our program can never get over the hump. You accept mediocrity because well it's better than taking a chance and getting worse. Championship programs are not built by the small and weak-minded, they are built by the bold, the strong willed, and the ones who hold their people to a standard even if that standard is difficult to reach. We will never be a championship program as long as we have fans who are too worried about what might happen if we get rid of people who are up to the standard we set because it could be worse. Of course it could always be worse, but it could be better.

[Todd4State]

Very level headed post. Of course, great bounces happen to bad teams and the opposite is true too.

I tend to think we are just an average team who had a few bad breaks in suspensions and injuries.

I think we are really an eight win team talent wise. I don’t think Moorhead has done a good job plus the bad breaks. But I think my point is we aren’t in a rebuild situation and if certain things change we will be right back where we were. That’s encouraging to me. But the changes have to happen. At least Joe mentions the changes and does things that come across as over the top to address them- bull in the ring- but at least he is aware on some level.

[tcdog70]

I think special team play has been a big problem. Just don't let KState run back a kickoff and there is a win. We have had 1 decent punt return all year. No good kickoff return. Just signal a fair catch and get the ball at the 25, but no we run it and are lucky to get it at the 15. If we just beat KState or Tenn. then we are about where everyone thought we would be.

Let's let the season play out then make a decision. If we finish 7-6 then keep Joe.

[cheewgumm]

To me, this is year 2 of 2 of underperformance. We ?should? have won 8 this year, we may win 6. We should have won 10 last year ( at least), we won 8.

Joe is a ?should have? Coach. He will underperform by ~ 2 games from where you ?should? be.

And you can say ?well, it?s only 1-2 games?, but the season is only 12. So that is 10-20% worse than you ?should? be.

[OLJWales]

Last year should have been one of our best years ever but Joe cluster 17'd the offense to where we couldn't compete against legit defenses. HUGE FAIL. We should have had 3 more wins that year. (including IA). We just HAVE to take advantages of defensive units like that when we are fortunate enough to have them. Unacceptable.

This year he fielded a team totally out of shape due to a weak S&C program that had most of the players returning for fall practice out of shape. So we've looked soft against weak teams in ugly w's and not dominating them the way we should and laid eggs against K.State & UT. Unacceptable.

Having said all that I will admit, I thought we were going to lose yesterday but was surprised that another SEC West team could actually be softer than us. Even though I may be wrong, I also don't think the QB "competition" in fall went as well as it could have. I have a hard time understanding KT being in the #3 spot which feels like it happened automatically overnight.

Stevens with no injuries and no tutor gate? legit question . I'll admit we might very well have 2 more in the W column if those things didn't hit us.

[WSOPdawg]

His offense has looked great against crap teams. What does it look like when Bama shuts down the run game?

His offense in the Big10 always looked great against crap teams. But his offense found it quite difficult to gain 300 yards agains teams with a defensive pulse fwiw.

[Captain Falcon]

Important to note that we will have a healthy Stevens plus all the suspended guys for the Egg Bowl. If we lose that game with those guys available, it’s going to be hard to rely on that excuse. But win and then get to 6-6, and I can buy it on at least some level.

[dawgday166]

His offense in the Big10 always looked great against crap teams. But his offense found it quite difficult to gain 300 yards agains teams with a defensive pulse fwiw.

Yep. Saw this when we hired him but it was only a couple of teams each year ... OSU being one of them. But when I researched Joe's resume here lately, I'm shaking my head more at Cohen doing his homework, as he implied he had done over the several months before when he felt Mullen might leave.

[MedDawg]

His offense has looked great against crap teams. What does it look like when Bama shuts down the run game?

About the same as 1942-2018

[shannondawg]

We beat a terrible Arkansas team and everybody starts playing What If? We looked like dog shit this season when it mattered. This Arkansas game meant nothing.

Gives us a chance at a bowl.

[TheLostDawg]

Also the dream season was last year but he absolutely destroyed that.

The common theme I see with his offense is : if we have decidedly more talent, it looks good. If we don?t, it?s hard to watch. I can?t think of a game that this rule has not played out.

I like Moorhead and wish that he would have panned out but this is how I feel. Last year showed us this. This year proved it. You have to recruit at the level of LSU and Alabama for it to work. Otherwise you get eaten alive. Y'all say what you want but remember, he's here for offense which is where we have struggled most and it wasn't impacted like the defense was with tutor gate. His offense just doesn't work here.

[Todd4State]

I like Moorhead and wish that he would have panned out but this is how I feel. Last year showed us this. This year proved it. You have to recruit at the level of LSU and Alabama for it to work. Otherwise you get eaten alive. Y'all say what you want but remember, he's here for offense which is where we have struggled most and it wasn't impacted like the defense was with tutor gate. His offense just doesn't work here.

That’s true of every offense.

[OLJWales]

I like Moorhead and wish that he would have panned out but this is how I feel. Last year showed us this. This year proved it. You have to recruit at the level of LSU and Alabama for it to work. Otherwise you get eaten alive. Y'all say what you want but remember, he's here for offense which is where we have struggled most and it wasn't impacted like the defense was with tutor gate. His offense just doesn't work here.

Good stuff. Last year was a head scratcher at best, epic fail at worst. LA and USM made too many plays against us in the trenches this year which shoulda been a warning sign to all.

Mullen proved you can sign high 3's and low 4's and compete if you sign the right ones who will stay in shape and do the things necessary in the off season to arrive ready to compete. Can you imagine sitting on your ass all off season and show up soft in a Nick Saban run program? Evidently showing up in lazy fashion is ok in JOMO World. JOMO Gotta Go.

[Captain Falcon]

I have mixed feelings about things. I’ve seen a lot of ugliness in these two years, but also enough of a spark in certain games to think that maybe he’s a few tweaks away from figuring things out. I realize Arkansas is horrid but we scored more points on them than anyone has all year.

[OLJWales]

I have mixed feelings about things. I’ve seen a lot of ugliness in these two years, but also enough of a spark in certain games to think that maybe he’s a few tweaks away from figuring things out. I realize Arkansas is horrid but we scored more points on them than anyone has all year.

That's one game. ONE. To get an overall grasp, you need to think compositely. I'm convinced this was not a "turning point" for JOMO because there's just too much ugly shit that's been going on since his arrival. We've done better and we deserve better. JOMO gotta Go.

[TrapGame]

Gives us a chance at a bowl.

Well, let's just hope and pray Joe has them ready Thanksgiving night or there won't be a bowl.

[TrapGame]

That's one game. ONE. To get an overall grasp, you need to think compositely. I'm convinced this was not a "turning point" for JOMO because there's just too much ugly shit that's been going on since his arrival. We've done better and we deserve better. JOMO gotta Go.

Didn't we say that about AU and A&M last year too? And after UK this year? People are putting way too much in the Arkansas game. It was a win and helps us get bowl eligible. That's great! But, to start talking about turning corners and figuring things out is a real stretch.

[Captain Falcon]

Didn't we say that about AU and A&M last year too? And after UK this year? People are putting way too much in the Arkansas game. It was a win and helps us get bowl eligible. That's great! But, to start talking about turning corners and figuring things out is a real stretch.

It’s far too early say anything definitively either way. Obviously Arkansas is so bad that beating them doesn’t move the needle very much. But blowing them out like that was encouraging. We quadrupled the Vegas spread.

Don’t think you can say the win was a turning of the tables, but I also don’t think you can say for sure it means nothing. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. It was only Arkansas, but it was still a very positive day that we can potentially build upon. Doesn’t mean we will, but you can’t totally rule it out.

[TrapGame]

It’s far too early say anything definitively either way. Obviously Arkansas is so bad that beating them doesn’t move the needle very much. But blowing them out like that was encouraging. We quadrupled the Vegas spread.

Don’t think you can say the win was a turning of the tables, but I also don’t think you can say for sure it means nothing. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. It was only Arkansas, but it was still a very positive day that we can potentially build upon. Doesn’t mean we will, but you can’t totally rule it out.

Now I'll take a confidence builder any day. If this helps them get up for Bama, beat AC and pumps them up to win the Egg Bowl for a bowl game then the Arkansas game may actually have been the most important game of season. But we'll see how this plays out.

[RezDog7]

Didn't we say that about AU and A&M last year too? And after UK this year? People are putting way too much in the Arkansas game. It was a win and helps us get bowl eligible. That's great! But, to start talking about turning corners and figuring things out is a real stretch.

Where are all these people claiming we are awesome now because we beat arky? All I see is people saying we still suck and we had the best team evah last year. I for one, like winning. Especially when it's dominating.