For those of you that still support Moorhead

[Dawgology]

I've read several on here stating that replacing him after this season is foolish. Give me some reasons to be optimistic about Joe Moorhead next season beyond the "we just don't fire a coach after 2 seasons" line. Because that is nonsense. This is your chance. Sell me and the fan base on why keeping Joe Moorhead is the smart move for the football program.

[defiantdog]

Because he’s undefeated against OM*******

[BeardoMSU]

Give me some reasons to be optimistic about Joe Moorhead next season

He's dressing up as a competent football coach for Halloween***

[Tbonewannabe]

He finally remembered where he put his coaching pills.

[Tbonewannabe]

Honestly, if he is coach next year I hope that he:

Figured out how lacking our S&C program is and remedies that immediately
Figured out what works and DOESN'T work in his offense and actually tailors it to his players and the SEC defenses
Figures out which coaches are working out and which aren't - don't have a country club where underperforming coaches just stay for no reason

I guess it is possible that he has been humbled and will work on these things but I just don't think he can change his entire offensive mindset. He was hired to run "HIS" offense and it has proven that it doesn't work against legit SEC defenses. Does he scrap his offense and adapt it or just keep plugging away. We already spent 5 years with Croom just driving the square peg into the round hole. We know it doesn't work so does Joe figure that out?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I've never come out & said I support or want him gone but if he gets to 6-6 & a bowl everybody realizing he's not getting fired. I think that's where most rational people sit. What I'm expecting is if does find his way to 6-6 all the people who said we're going to finish 4-8 will change to he beat 3 trash teams to get 6-6. While that may be true you can't flip on him winning those games because you thought he would lose. Now if he does indeed go 4-8 he's sealed his own fate.

[Really Clark?]

He's dressing up as a competent football coach for Halloween***

https://y.yarn.co/a476a3ae-e79b-4f31-9e82-c0748cefcd6c_text.gif

[bulldog20]

I've read several on here stating that replacing him after this season is foolish. Give me some reasons to be optimistic about Joe Moorhead next season beyond the "we just don't fire a coach after 2 seasons" line. Because that is nonsense. This is your chance. Sell me and the fan base on why keeping Joe Moorhead is the smart move for the football program.

I'm completely neutral at this point. You can see his offense work in spurts which can give people hope. The inconsistency is the most frustrating part of it all. If he were to able to figure it out then technically we could move ahead of where Mullen got us due simply to being a better passing team while also remaining a solid running team. The best teams right now can throw it pretty well which makes the supporters believe it could work for us as well. Alabama has transitioned to more throw it around and now even LSU and its taken their team to new heights. Granted they have a lot more talent, but it can be done. You can be a great passing team and still be physical. Right now we seam to have lost that edge and not sure if it can be brought back. Not the response you were looking for, but just my thoughts.

[Jack Lambert]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2605558-how-dabo-swinney-went-from-bad-hire-to-hot-seat-to-national-championship-game

[HailStateSZN19]

I've never come out & said I support or want him gone but if he gets to 6-6 & a bowl everybody realizing he's not getting fired. I think that's where most rational people sit. What I'm expecting is if does find his way to 6-6 all the people who said we're going to finish 4-8 will change to he beat 3 trash teams to get 6-6. While that may be true you can't flip on him winning those games because you thought he would lose. Now if he does indeed go 4-8 he's sealed his own fate.

Very fair take IYOK. In your opinion, what does 5-7 do? Is he back after 5-7 or does it depend on who we would split with between Arky & OM? At 6-6, he’s back unless he wants to leave on his own. But I can’t justify having a losing record this season even with the suspensions and injuries. Not with the schedule we had this year. 5-7 is honestly the worst scenario to me because I could see him being back after 5-7 and if that’s the case, DWS will be a ghost town next year most likely. I want to win 3 of the last 4 and get to 6-6 to keep the streak alive. But if we’re talking either going 4-8/5-7 I’d rather just go ahead and go 4-8 and leave no doubt and him be gone rather than missing the bowl game anyways at 5-7 and potentially having him back next year. BUT, I hope like hell we win 3 of these last 4.

[msugolf]

I've never come out & said I support or want him gone but if he gets to 6-6 & a bowl everybody realizing he's not getting fired. I think that's where most rational people sit. What I'm expecting is if does find his way to 6-6 all the people who said we're going to finish 4-8 will change to he beat 3 trash teams to get 6-6. While that may be true you can't flip on him winning those games because you thought he would lose. Now if he does indeed go 4-8 he's sealed his own fate.

But you can't fault people for not being excited about the future or next season if we do finish 6-6. He's not recruiting at a high enough level to offset the concerns we've seen with his system and all signs (so far) aren't in his favor as far as being a solid developer of players. So how do you sell people on football under JoMo going forward?

[Coursesuper]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2605558-how-dabo-swinney-went-from-bad-hire-to-hot-seat-to-national-championship-game

I see your point with this article, and if he is able to go 6-7 like Dabo's worst year he gets another chance, but it its 4-8 I don't think there is a chance for another year.

[confucius say]

If he gets to 6-6 you can sell Schrader as a blossoming star and overcoming a slew of injuries and suspensions with a solid recruiting class.

[Really Clark?]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2605558-how-dabo-swinney-went-from-bad-hire-to-hot-seat-to-national-championship-game

That’s well an good but that Clemson team in 2010 was 13th nationally in scoring defense and lost by 3 points on the road to national champ Auburn and on the road by 3 to #17 Florida St. Beat 2 ranked teams. Other than the 29-7 loss to USCe, all of their other losses were close competitive games with in 6 points except Miami who won by 9. Show us where that is happening with us?

[BeardoMSU]

https://y.yarn.co/a476a3ae-e79b-4f31-9e82-c0748cefcd6c_text.gif

Lol.

In more good news, I hear Moorhead is bringing in another QB from the transfer portal....**

https://media.giphy.com/media/5d9WminNw7fuo/giphy.gif

[KB21]

Maybe I’m alone, but I fail to see why 6-6 makes him safe, 4-8 makes him fired, and 5-7 is a gray area. He’s proven to be a bad head coach regardless of whether he is 6-6 or 4-8. Beating Arkansas, Abilene Christian, and Ole Miss isn’t going to take away the lack of discipline and preparation this team has exhibited during his tenure.

I also push back at the notion that his system is the issue. It’s not, IMO. The issue is the lack of attention to detail that is given to the fundamentals in practice, and as a result, the plays that are there to be made aren’t made as a result of that lack of attention to detail. See Zuber half assing his route on an interception against Tennessee. Details matter. What you don’t work on in practice will show up on game day and keep you from executing.

[Really Clark?]

Lol.

In more good news, I hear Moorhead is bringing in another QB from the transfer portal....**

https://media.giphy.com/media/5d9WminNw7fuo/giphy.gif

Haha! You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BeardoMSU again.

[Randolph Dupree]

Maybe I’m alone, but I fail to see why 6-6 makes him safe, 4-8 makes him fired, and 5-7 is a gray area. He’s proven to be a bad head coach regardless of whether he is 6-6 or 4-8. Beating Arkansas, Abilene Christian, and Ole Miss isn’t going to take away the lack of discipline and preparation this team has exhibited during his tenure.

I also push back at the notion that his system is the issue. It’s not, IMO. The issue is the lack of attention to detail that is given to the fundamentals in practice, and as a result, the plays that are there to be made aren’t made as a result of that lack of attention to detail. See Zuber half assing his route on an interception against Tennessee. Details matter. What you don’t work on in practice will show up on game day and keep you from executing.

If we fire him at 6-6 after two years we are in Ole Miss/Cutcliff territory. We lost 3 first rounders, suspensions, injuries etc. Just can't do it because of our history. It wouldn't be looked at in a positive light and would harm us with the best candidates. People would say our expectations are too high.

At 5-7, people would bring the suspensions and injuries into play and say that they were probably worth 1-2 losses. But, you could still argue that we under achieved. Hence the gray area.

4-8 would be seen as gross underachievement despite the suspensions and injuries etc. and we could fall back on the inept offense.

FWIW I want him gone even if we go 7-6 with a bowl win. The dude doesn't have it.

[Jack Lambert]

I see your point with this article, and if he is able to go 6-7 like Dabo's worst year he gets another chance, but it its 4-8 I don't think there is a chance for another year.

I agree with you. I just wanted to put this out there. I have said and will say now that I want to wait to see how it plays out before hopping on the fire Moorhead wagon. Our schedule is set up every year to get bowl eligible. If you can't win six with our schedule and the talent we have then maybe you do need to go.

[Dawgology]

If we fire him at 6-6 after two years we are in Ole Miss/Cutcliff territory. We lost 3 first rounders, suspensions, injuries etc. Just can't do it because of our history. It wouldn't be looked at in a positive light and would harm us with the best candidates. People would say our expectations are too high.

At 5-7, people would bring the suspensions and injuries into play and say that they were probably worth 1-2 losses. But, you could still argue that we under achieved. Hence the gray area.

4-8 would be seen as gross underachievement despite the suspensions and injuries etc. and we could fall back on the inept offense.

FWIW I want him gone even if we go 7-6 with a bowl win. The dude doesn't have it.

If we actually hire a real head coach and pay them starting 3-4 million a year I would think they understood that there are expectations.

[Percho]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2605558-how-dabo-swinney-went-from-bad-hire-to-hot-seat-to-national-championship-game

A fine article. I liked the following:

Ninety-five percent of Clemson fans are some of the best people you'd ever meet in the world. Just great people. Then there are 5 percent of them who, Lord have mercy, it's just crazy. … There are certainly people who expect the team to show up every week, lay it on the line, play with passion, play with toughness, win every game, and as soon as something doesn't go the way they want, they turn and run and quit and cry and fire the coach and fire this guy and fire this player and all that stuff.

In reality I believe that is message board fans. Us.

In reality we never know the future> We just hope. And as Andy told Red, "Hope is a good thing."

[tcdog70]

Question? if Joe goes 6-6 --how much money do we lose if He comes back? I know MSU would have to buy out his contract, but I'm pretty sure attendance and season ticket sales would tank.No one would be excited about our program going forward.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Very fair take IYOK. In your opinion, what does 5-7 do? Is he back after 5-7 or does it depend on who we would split with between Arky & OM? At 6-6, he?s back unless he wants to leave on his own. But I can?t justify having a losing record this season even with the suspensions and injuries. Not with the schedule we had this year. 5-7 is honestly the worst scenario to me because I could see him being back after 5-7 and if that?s the case, DWS will be a ghost town next year most likely. I want to win 3 of the last 4 and get to 6-6 to keep the streak alive. But if we?re talking either going 4-8/5-7 I?d rather just go ahead and go 4-8 and leave no doubt and him be gone rather than missing the bowl game anyways at 5-7 and potentially having him back next year. BUT, I hope like hell we win 3 of these last 4.

That's where it gets tricky.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

But you can't fault people for not being excited about the future or next season if we do finish 6-6. He's not recruiting at a high enough level to offset the concerns we've seen with his system and all signs (so far) aren't in his favor as far as being a solid developer of players. So how do you sell people on football under JoMo going forward?

I'm not saying we should be excited. I'm saying if he gets to 6-6 & a bowl then it's a disappointing season but he was able to at least continue moving the ball in somewhat the right direction.

[Commercecomet24]

No one wants Joe to succeed more than me. He's a good guy and I want him to do well. That being said he's got to give us something to believe in and hold onto for the future. If he can show we're progressing and not repeating the same old mistakes over and over and over and look like a competitive football team then I'm good. We can't keep coming out with the same lackluster effort and intensity from the players and coaches and still expect everyone to have the warm fuzzies. At some point you have to start producing. As that great American philosopher Brett Michaels said "Give me something to believe in"" Give us something to believe in Joe.

[Tbonewannabe]

I've never come out & said I support or want him gone but if he gets to 6-6 & a bowl everybody realizing he's not getting fired. I think that's where most rational people sit. What I'm expecting is if does find his way to 6-6 all the people who said we're going to finish 4-8 will change to he beat 3 trash teams to get 6-6. While that may be true you can't flip on him winning those games because you thought he would lose. Now if he does indeed go 4-8 he's sealed his own fate.

At this point, if he finished 6-6 then he barely beat teams with a pulse. His best win would be either UK or ULL. UK has won games because they adapted when they QBs went down. They are actually a better team now with Bowden at QB than they were when we played them. If we replayed that game now, UK probably wins by 2 TDs and Bowden would rush for over 200 yards.

I personally would only want him back if we actually showed something against Bama. Beating Ark, Abilene, and UM without Plumlee doesn't show us anything more than the team didn't quit on the coach. Most mediocre coaches with the talent advantage should win those games. Going into next year, what is the hope? We have steadily regressed from when Moorhead took over so do we hope that he does a 180 from what he has done for the past 2 years?

[timotheus]

Next years schedule is a buzz saw and due to that, Cohen can decide whether he wants Joe or a new coach to more than likely have a losing season at MSU.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'm not saying we should be excited. I'm saying if he gets to 6-6 & a bowl then it's a disappointing season but he was able to at least continue moving the ball in somewhat the right direction.

Just not sucking as bad as two dumpster fires and a FCS team isn't moving the ball in the right direction. We went from a team that could go toe to toe with pretty much anyone in the country in 2017 to a team that had the best defense in the country that kept our bad offense in every game. Now if the other team has equal or better talent then the game is over before halftime. There is nothing about what Joe is doing that is going in the right direction.

[brick_dawg]

At 4-8 he should definitely be gone. There is never an excuse to go 4-8. At 5-7, I'm afraid that he might be back but depending on who you beat- Arky or OM. At 6-6, he will definitely be back to coach next season.

Regarding the "we dont fire coaches after 2 seasons" narrative, this makes zero sense to me. Why can't we fire him after this season? I would agree if he had to rebuild the program into a winner, but he inherited what should have been at least a 10 win team! Last year, the only reason we were decent was because of that defense. This season, he has had 2 of "his guys" at QB and still nothing is working. I respect the hell out of Shrader and think he is a hell of a competitor but he isn't making this system work any better than Fitz. So as many people have stated before, tell me what he will do in the years to come to make this program even respectable again. He isn't recruiting at a high level. His scheme won't work at State. And quite frankly, if I have to read one more inspo quote, I might shoot myself. I think he's got to go.

[gravedigger]

I've read several on here stating that replacing him after this season is foolish. Give me some reasons to be optimistic about Joe Moorhead next season beyond the "we just don't fire a coach after 2 seasons" line. Because that is nonsense. This is your chance. Sell me and the fan base on why keeping Joe Moorhead is the smart move for the football program.

Because people who actually have the position of President of a university and Athletics director dont get those positions by polling fans and firing people. Will they pull the trigger soon? I dont know. I'm not either one of those people. What I know of those people, however, is that they evaluate those decisions on much more than the message board fan's petty gripes.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Just not sucking as bad as two dumpster fires and a FCS team isn't moving the ball in the right direction. We went from a team that could go toe to toe with pretty much anyone in the country in 2017 to a team that had the best defense in the country that kept our bad offense in every game. Now if the other team has equal or better talent then the game is over before halftime. There is nothing about what Joe is doing that is going in the right direction.

It continues the program going to a bowl.

[dawgday166]

Next years schedule is a buzz saw and due to that, Cohen can decide whether he wants Joe or a new coach to more than likely have a losing season at MSU.

Add to that our 2-deep will be really young and inexperienced next year. It gonna be ugly.

[Tbonewannabe]

It continues the program going to a bowl.

So if someone took over for Bama and won 9 games and then 6 would that be progress also since it would be going to a bowl? We are now to the point of giving Moorhead credit for making progress if the team actually gives a shit for the entire game. Nevermind that A&M was competitive with Ark and they were coasting against us by halftime. That isn't progress to me, that is regression.

So next year if we got beat by anyone with a hearbeat on our schedule by 40 points but we somehow win 6 games by less than a TD against a bunch of teams with losing records, I wouldn't think that was progress either.

[MD2020]

Maybe I?m alone, but I fail to see why 6-6 makes him safe, 4-8 makes him fired, and 5-7 is a gray area. He?s proven to be a bad head coach regardless of whether he is 6-6 or 4-8. Beating Arkansas, Abilene Christian, and Ole Miss isn?t going to take away the lack of discipline and preparation this team has exhibited during his tenure.

I also push back at the notion that his system is the issue. It?s not, IMO. The issue is the lack of attention to detail that is given to the fundamentals in practice, and as a result, the plays that are there to be made aren?t made as a result of that lack of attention to detail. See Zuber half assing his route on an interception against Tennessee. Details matter. What you don?t work on in practice will show up on game day and keep you from executing.

You're not alone. Getting to 6-6 by beating the 2 worst teams in the SEC and an extremely inferior opponent in ACU proves nothing.

[Bothrops]

Maybe I?m alone, but I fail to see why 6-6 makes him safe, 4-8 makes him fired, and 5-7 is a gray area. He?s proven to be a bad head coach regardless of whether he is 6-6 or 4-8.

At the end of the day it's about numbers of wins and losses at MSU football, and outside of OM, it doesn't matter who we've beaten, or lost to, as long as it's a bowl season. Going 8-4 and 6-6 in two seasons makes any MSU football head coach, not only safe, but very safe.

[WSOPdawg]

So if someone took over for Bama and won 9 games and then 6 would that be progress also since it would be going to a bowl? We are now to the point of giving Moorhead credit for making progress if the team actually gives a shit for the entire game. Nevermind that A&M was competitive with Ark and they were coasting against us by halftime. That isn't progress to me, that is regression.

So next year if we got beat by anyone with a hearbeat on our schedule by 40 points but we somehow win 6 games by less than a TD against a bunch of teams with losing records, I wouldn't think that was progress either.

CLAP CLAP CLAP, that Tbone is most brilliant.

No way in Hades would a successful program such as Bama, including its alumni or fan base, accept the demise to the depths JoMo and his "championship standard" is allowing/leading M-State to fall to.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

So if someone took over for Bama and won 9 games and then 6 would that be progress also since it would be going to a bowl? We are now to the point of giving Moorhead credit for making progress if the team actually gives a shit for the entire game. Nevermind that A&M was competitive with Ark and they were coasting against us by halftime. That isn't progress to me, that is regression.

So next year if we got beat by anyone with a hearbeat on our schedule by 40 points but we somehow win 6 games by less than a TD against a bunch of teams with losing records, I wouldn't think that was progress either.

So you're saying not making a bowl is the same as finishing 6-6 & making a bowl?

[Tbonewannabe]

So you're saying not making a bowl is the same as finishing 6-6 & making a bowl?

No, I am saying getting dominated by a shit UT team and then getting dominated by A&M isn't showing progress. Beating 3 shit teams doesn't show anything but the team didn't completely quit.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

No, I am saying getting dominated by a shit UT team and then getting dominated by A&M isn't showing progress. Beating 3 shit teams doesn't show anything but the team didn't completely quit.

I said it at least continues the ball rolling somewhat in the right direction. You said nothing about Joe is going in the right direction. Continuing to go to a bowl is the right direction. Go look at 2011, 2013, & 2017 bowl seasons. 6-6, 6-6, & 5-7. Those 3 seasons victories looked exactly like how this season wins looked minus the 2017 victory vs A&M. They made postseason though so they kept some momentum going because they won the bowls every year & continued that momentum into offseason & the next year. If you don't think that next year's team will improve like 2012, 2014, & 2018 that's fine but let's not act like 6-6 & a bowl isn't big for this team & program. That's my point.

[Captain Falcon]

We’ve had multiple teams get to bowl games by beating absolutely nobody good. 2011 and 2012 immediately come to mind. We literally went to a bowl game with a 2-6 conference record one year. He needs to get to 6-6, but he’s not going anywhere if he does. It wouldn’t even be our worst season in the last four years.

[dawgday166]

I said it at least continues the ball rolling somewhat in the right direction. You said nothing about Joe is going in the right direction. Continuing to go to a bowl is the right direction. Go look at 2011, 2013, & 2017 bowl seasons. 6-6, 6-6, & 5-7. Those 3 seasons victories looked exactly like how this season wins looked minus the 2017 victory vs A&M. They made postseason though so they kept some momentum going because they won the bowls every year & continued that momentum into offseason & the next year. If you don't think that next year's team will improve like 2012, 2014, & 2018 that's fine but let's not act like 6-6 & a bowl isn't big for this team & program. That's my point.

You mean 2016 season. Last half of year offense was pretty good outside meaningless bowl game. Blew OMs doors off at end of year on top of beatdown of TAM.

I don't remember 2011 and 2013 looking near this bad. 2013 Bama game convinced me we had good shot at SEC next year 2014. Lost to them 20-7. Scrapped with them with a young team. Almost put down long shot bet on NC, but knew deep down the moment would be too overwhelming for us.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

You mean 2016 season. Last half of year offense was pretty good outside meaningless bowl game. Blew OMs doors off at end of year on top of beatdown of TAM.

I don't remember 2011 and 2013 looking near this bad. 2013 Bama game convinced me we had good shot at SEC next year 2014. Lost to them 20-7. Scrapped with them with a young team. Almost put down long shot bet on NC, but knew deep down the moment would be too overwhelming for us.

I never once said getting to a bowl was a cure all for our problems but getting to a bowl game would definitely would keep the train on the tracks & keep things moving somewhat forward. I don't see how anybody can argue that.

[Liverpooldawg]

I never once said getting to a bowl was a cure all for our problems but getting to a bowl game would definitely would keep the train on the tracks & keep things moving somewhat forward. I don't see how anybody can argue that.

Nobody wit MSU's interests at heart can.

[dawgday166]

We?ve had multiple teams get to bowl games by beating absolutely nobody good. 2011 and 2012 immediately come to mind. We literally went to a bowl game with a 2-6 conference record one year. He needs to get to 6-6, but he?s not going anywhere if he does. It wouldn?t even be our worst season in the last four years.

Have you looked at the year we had a 2-6 conference record.

We lost these SEC games:
1) @Auburn 41-34 who finished 4th in West coming off Natty year.
2) LSU 19-6 who won SEC, played for Natty, and had the 2nd best D in this century.
3) @Ga 24-10 won the East and were 10-4 overall.
4) USCe 14-12 2nd in the East and 11-2 overall.
5) Bama 24-7 won Natty and had best D of this century.
6) @Arky 41-17 third in West and coached by Petrino and were 11-2 overall.

That's a KILLER schedule. Not on the same planet with this year's losses and level if ineptitude.

[msstate7]

Have you looked at the year we had a 2-6 conference record.

We lost these SEC games:
1) @Auburn 41-34 who finished 4th in West coming off Natty year.
2) LSU 19-6 who won SEC, played for Natty, and had the 2nd best D in this century.
3) @Ga 24-10 won the East and were 10-4 overall.
4) USCe 14-12 2nd in the East and 11-2 overall.
5) Bama 24-7 won Natty and had best D of this century.
6) @Arky 41-17 third in West and coached by Petrino.

That's a KILLER schedule. Not on the same planet with this year's losses and level if ineptitude.

Surely those teams aren't as good as KSU and Tennessee

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

At this point, if he finished 6-6 then he barely beat teams with a pulse. His best win would be either UK or ULL. UK has won games because they adapted when they QBs went down. They are actually a better team now with Bowden at QB than they were when we played them. If we replayed that game now, UK probably wins by 2 TDs and Bowden would rush for over 200 yards.

I personally would only want him back if we actually showed something against Bama. Beating Ark, Abilene, and UM without Plumlee doesn't show us anything more than the team didn't quit on the coach. Most mediocre coaches with the talent advantage should win those games. Going into next year, what is the hope? We have steadily regressed from when Moorhead took over so do we hope that he does a 180 from what he has done for the past 2 years?

Are you kidding me? 2 TDs huh? So one player is worth a 27 point swing? Do you actually read what you type?

[Tbonewannabe]

Are you kidding me? 2 TDs huh? So one player is worth a 27 point swing? Do you actually read what you type?

They were running it down our throat but chose to pass with their QB. Bowden has made them a running team and they are pretty hard to stop. He would have changed their game plan. Do you think our defense would slow down a guy that is running for 200 yards on good defenses? Our defense is 94th in the country. Without the pick six, the game is one score. They averaged 5.5 yards per carry without Bowden tearing it up like he is now. He changes that game plan to their strength and our defenses weakness.

We also scored a TD with 1:30 left in the game to make the score look better. It wasn't like we dominated them.

[Captain Falcon]

Have you looked at the year we had a 2-6 conference record.

We lost these SEC games:
1) @Auburn 41-34 who finished 4th in West coming off Natty year.
2) LSU 19-6 who won SEC, played for Natty, and had the 2nd best D in this century.
3) @Ga 24-10 won the East and were 10-4 overall.
4) USCe 14-12 2nd in the East and 11-2 overall.
5) Bama 24-7 won Natty and had best D of this century.
6) @Arky 41-17 third in West and coached by Petrino and were 11-2 overall.

That's a KILLER schedule. Not on the same planet with this year's losses and level if ineptitude.

Don?t disagree at all that our losses were to better teams, but these were our wins:

Memphis (they went 2-10)
Louisiana Tech (in OT after they had us dead to rights late in the 4th before an ill-advised INT)
UAB (we were down 3-0 at halftime to a UAB team that went 3-9)
UT Martin
5-7 Kentucky
2-10 Ole Miss

We lost to some very good teams but we sure as heck didn?t beat anybody worth a flip. I can do the same thing for 2012, where we won four conference games but all four of those teams fired their coaches after the season.

Just saying that if you?re going to give Joe crap for a potential 6-6 record with no good wins, also recognize that Mullen had quite a few teams like that. Not defending this season, I?ve been very frustrated too. But 6-6 is not a fireable offense for us right now. If he gets there then people will just have to accept that he?s coming back next year and hope he makes some changes in the offseason.

[dawgday166]

I never once said getting to a bowl was a cure all for our problems but getting to a bowl game would definitely would keep the train on the tracks & keep things moving somewhat forward. I don't see how anybody can argue that.

I'm listening to you and I'm thinking on it. Joe has lost me. Take a pretty damn good while to win be back too. In my personal life when I keep going to the well over and over with someone who spins shit the way he does ... I've been burnt a few times. I keep wanting to give folks the benefit of the doubt in those situations but it always turns out like it do. I finally realized folks like that are just the way they are and ... protect your pocketbook. Be careful at work with those types. They're spin masters and always looking to take a lot of credit while doing a lot less.

Joe sells Joe and spins shit to make it look like everything is rosy and going in right direction when it ain't. And he can't be putting the effort into all areas of his job that he should be, cause he don't see stuff on film he should be seeing, and we are a soft team. So those are my main reasons for wanting him to go. All my red flags are up with the guy, and I came into this year giving him a clean slate even tho he totally screwed up last year's team. I'm now to the point I'm not buying "he's a nice guy". All con men are "nice guys".

I read the Dabo article. Those results didn't look too bad to me honestly. And I guarantee with the depletion of our roster after this year it will probably be very bad next year. Really, really young team everywhere. May be talented but the youth is a killer. 2022 will be the best chance so you're looking at 2 more beyond this one.

So I dunno. Sorta like WTF now ... just see how it plays out. We do need a coach who can do more with less and that ain't Joe. He had more at PSU and in 2016 game PSU won over OSU 24-21 ... 276 yds offense and McSorley was 8/23. 2017 game lost 39-38 ... 283 yd offense and McSorley was 17/29. And that with all that NFL skill talent on the roster. Joe is a less with more coach.

ETA: BTW, I saw those stats when he was hired and questioned them then. That was before I was fully cognizant of all the NFL talent he did have at PSU. I also read an article about how Fordham has some kind of recruiting advantages or something like that that he took advantage of while there and his record was still not like off the charts or anything. I questioned some of this but wanted to buy in like every one else did.

[Tbonewannabe]

I never once said getting to a bowl was a cure all for our problems but getting to a bowl game would definitely would keep the train on the tracks & keep things moving somewhat forward. I don't see how anybody can argue that.

I agree that making a bowl is at least keeping some momentum. It is kind of like a A and B honor roll student making some B- and you are like well you changed schools so that is tough. Then the next year they are making Cs. Still on pace to graduate but something is definitely wrong.

[Tbonewannabe]

Don?t disagree at all that our losses were to better teams, but these were our wins:

Memphis (they went 2-10)
Louisiana Tech (in OT after they had us dead to rights late in the 4th before an ill-advised INT)
UAB (we were down 3-0 at halftime to a UAB team that went 3-9)
UT Martin
5-7 Kentucky
2-10 Ole Miss

We lost to some very good teams but we sure as heck didn?t beat anybody worth a flip. I can do the same thing for 2012, where we won four conference games but all four of those teams fired their coaches after the season.

Just saying that if you?re going to give Joe crap for a potential 6-6 record with no good wins, also recognize that Mullen had quite a few teams like that. Not defending this season, I?ve been very frustrated too. But 6-6 is not a fireable offense for us right now. If he gets there then people will just have to accept that he?s coming back next year and hope he makes some changes in the offseason.

But with Joe, all our wins aren't great and we are getting blown out by mediocre teams.

[dawgday166]

Don?t disagree at all that our losses were to better teams, but these were our wins:

Memphis (they went 2-10)
Louisiana Tech (in OT after they had us dead to rights late in the 4th before an ill-advised INT)
UAB (we were down 3-0 at halftime to a UAB team that went 3-9)
UT Martin
5-7 Kentucky
2-10 Ole Miss

We lost to some very good teams but we sure as heck didn?t beat anybody worth a flip. I can do the same thing for 2012, where we won four conference games but all four of those teams fired their coaches after the season.

Just saying that if you?re going to give Joe crap for a potential 6-6 record with no good wins, also recognize that Mullen had quite a few teams like that. Not defending this season, I?ve been very frustrated too. But 6-6 is not a fireable offense for us right now. If he gets there then people will just have to accept that he?s coming back next year and hope he makes some changes in the offseason.

Well ... after playing those teams we probably needed some easy games. Don't know all the injuries but probably got beat up during all those games.

2012 ... I agree. Shouldn't have imploded for 4 losses in last 5 games either.

[Captain Falcon]

But with Joe, all our wins aren't great and we are getting blown out by mediocre teams.

Don’t disagree with you.... but still not enough to fire him at 6-6. Even if you think you know how next year will go, I think he still gets a chance to prove the doubters wrong. In this scenario he would still be the first coach in our history to go to a bowl game AND win the Egg Bowl in both of his first two years. Times have changed obviously, and we should aim for better. But you only fire coaches after two years if they’ve been a total disaster. If we go 4-8 then it’s a total disaster. 6-6? A disappointing two years, yes, but not a disaster by any means.

[dawgday166]

But with Joe, all our wins aren't great and we are getting blown out by mediocre teams.

I'd give him AU last year. Even if they did lose to TN. They were pretty good coming into our game IMO. That's the only time I think it has looked like he did some coaching during the week. Maybe TAM last year too some.

[Captain Falcon]

Well ... after playing those teams we probably needed some easy games. Don't know all the injuries but probably got beat up during all those games.

2012 ... I agree. Shouldn't have imploded for 4 losses in last 5 games either.

We benefited from soft nonconference schedules for years and that always gave us an extra win or two. We lost one nonconference game from 2010 to 2015, and no coincidence that it wad to the only Power 5 team we played in that time span. Since the new “Power 5 every year” rule has gone into effect, we’re 2-2 in those games.

I just think if you’re going to criticize Moorhead for only getting to 6-6 because Ole Miss and Arkansas suck, it’s relevant to note that we’ve had several bowl teams who didn’t have to beat anybody worth a flip to get to that point.

[dawgday166]

We benefited from soft nonconference schedules for years and that always gave us an extra win or two. We lost one nonconference game from 2010 to 2015, and no coincidence that it wad to the only Power 5 team we played in that time span. Since the new “Power 5 every year” rule has gone into effect, we’re 2-2 in those games.

I just think if you’re going to criticize Moorhead for only getting to 6-6 because Ole Miss and Arkansas suck, it’s relevant to note that we’ve had several bowl teams who didn’t have to beat anybody worth a flip to get to that point.

I used to argue soft non-conference with Mullen too. We did have one for sure most years. And most times SEC east teams we played were Ky and someone who was down, but maybe not near as bad as TN when we played them this year. But Dan would almost always win ones he could win and when he got busy, put his head down and coached ... you'd get 2014 and what should've been 2018.

I just think Moorhead is like Freeze but not as creative. Freeze draws up some good stuff against upper tier competition (he thrives on that) but has the WTF games against lesser foes. Joe is going to win/lose with explosive plays or lack thereof. That's his thing. Moorhead also pays a lot of attention to social media like Freeze. I'm also getting the same feeling he like Freeze listening to his pressors and such too, but not with the strong religious overtones.

But you probably right ... 6-6 he probably should get another chance and if you're gonna be fair, probably 2 years cause we really gonna be young next year.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

They were running it down our throat but chose to pass with their QB. Bowden has made them a running team and they are pretty hard to stop. He would have changed their game plan. Do you think our defense would slow down a guy that is running for 200 yards on good defenses? Our defense is 94th in the country. Without the pick six, the game is one score. They averaged 5.5 yards per carry without Bowden tearing it up like he is now. He changes that game plan to their strength and our defenses weakness.

We also scored a TD with 1:30 left in the game to make the score look better. It wasn't like we dominated them.

I never said we dominated them.

You are the one saying that one player would have swung the game 27 points.

[Tbonewannabe]

I never said we dominated them.

You are the one saying that one player would have swung the game 27 points.

I could be wrong but I would assume they would use the same game plan now which is 70-80% run and they are more effective. Less passing probably erases the pick six and who knows if our defense could stop them. As it was, the few passes he caught took like 2-3 guys to tackle him.

[Tbonewannabe]

Don’t disagree with you.... but still not enough to fire him at 6-6. Even if you think you know how next year will go, I think he still gets a chance to prove the doubters wrong. In this scenario he would still be the first coach in our history to go to a bowl game AND win the Egg Bowl in both of his first two years. Times have changed obviously, and we should aim for better. But you only fire coaches after two years if they’ve been a total disaster. If we go 4-8 then it’s a total disaster. 6-6? A disappointing two years, yes, but not a disaster by any means.

You are probably right that 6-6 is probably enough to get him another year but I haven't seen anything that would make me think anything will change. I could be judging harshly but that UT game was one of the worst games that I have sat through. Two weeks to prepare and that is honestly the worst prepared team I have ever seen. It also pissed me off to see no corrections done on the sidelines by the coaching staff.

It is going to take something special or a long time for that game to fade away.

[Tbonewannabe]

I never said we dominated them.

You are the one saying that one player would have swung the game 27 points.

Also how many points do you think Shrader is worth in a game like Auburn? I would say probably all 29 because we might not cross the 50 that game with Tommy.

[Don]

If he stays, we will fall behind further. I blame Cohen for this. Plus I do not know if he did the right thing for a baseball coach.

[Captain Falcon]

You are probably right that 6-6 is probably enough to get him another year but I haven't seen anything that would make me think anything will change. I could be judging harshly but that UT game was one of the worst games that I have sat through. Two weeks to prepare and that is honestly the worst prepared team I have ever seen. It also pissed me off to see no corrections done on the sidelines by the coaching staff.

It is going to take something special or a long time for that game to fade away.

6-6 buys him another year but nothing more. There will still be pressure on him to deliver a good team next year if he’s here.

[Tbonewannabe]

If he stays, we will fall behind further. I blame Cohen for this. Plus I do not know if he did the right thing for a baseball coach.

This is kind of my point. Moorhead has proven that his offense doesn't work against good SEC defenses. The only one we were successful against was AU last year and he was running a different offensive game plan. We know his culture produces soft players. All the proof that we have of his program is that he is regressing it instead of progress. We have zero positives to show the past two years. I guess he could hang with Bama but the likelihood is very small.

[confucius say]

This is kind of my point. Moorhead has proven that his offense doesn't work against good SEC defenses. The only one we were successful against was AU last year and he was running a different offensive game plan. We know his culture produces soft players. All the proof that we have of his program is that he is regressing it instead of progress. We have zero positives to show the past two years. I guess he could hang with Bama but the likelihood is very small.

I mostly agree but will play devils advocate.

We were not soft in 2018 when we had seniors like green, sweat, hoyett, Thomas, Peters, Mclaurin, and abram and Simmons. If we had those guys now would we be soft? Is our softness a joe culture thing or a lack of DUDES thing?

[dawgday166]

I mostly agree but will play devils advocate.

We were not soft in 2018 when we had seniors like green, sweat, hoyett, Thomas, Peters, Mclaurin, and abram and Simmons. If we had those guys now would we be soft? Is our softness a joe culture thing or a lack of DUDES thing?

1) Piroli was S&C coach. Came from NFL to work with Moorhead and immediately went back to NFL after last year.
2) Those are defensive players. We had some issues there until after FL game and then Shoop installed Toughness Tuesdays. Then we really became a fast/nasty/lay the lumber to you D.
3) Oline was in shape last year but outside AU & TAM games ... mostly played soft. I attribute this to blocking scheme and maybe technique cause Piroli had them in shape.

Some of those DUDES were created ... they just didn't show up on campus as DUDES. Jenkins is a prime example. Hoyett is another. McLaurin is another but .. everyone keeps having McLaurin on last year's team but his last year is 2017. Simmons became even more of a DUDE too. Abrams played much better after Toughness Tuesdays were instituted last year.

I will somewhat agree from the seniors standpoint that the leadership was great on the D side of ball. More vocal leaders over there. Also a senior laden team usually is better than a mixture of a few seniors, juniors, and sophs. And on the D side we did have more DUDES on the Dline and Backend without a doubt.

[Really Clark?]

1) Piroli was S&C coach. Came from NFL to work with Moorhead and immediately went back to NFL after last year.
2) Those are defensive players. We had some issues there until after FL game and then Shoop installed Toughness Tuesdays. Then we really became a fast/nasty/lay the lumber to you D.
3) Oline was in shape last year but outside AU & TAM games ... mostly played soft. I attribute this to blocking scheme and maybe technique cause Piroli had them in shape.

Some of those DUDES were created ... they just didn't show up on campus as DUDES. Jenkins is a prime example. Hoyett is another. McLaurin is another but .. everyone keeps having McLaurin on last year's team but his last year is 2017. Simmons became even more of a DUDE too. Abrams played much better after Toughness Tuesdays were instituted last year.

I will somewhat agree from the seniors standpoint that the leadership was great on the D side of ball. More vocal leaders over there. Also a senior laden team usually is better than a mixture of a few seniors, juniors, and sophs. And on the D side we did have more DUDES on the Dline and Backend without a doubt.

Mark McLaurin played and started 12 games last year

[confucius say]

1) Piroli was S&C coach. Came from NFL to work with Moorhead and immediately went back to NFL after last year.
2) Those are defensive players. We had some issues there until after FL game and then Shoop installed Toughness Tuesdays. Then we really became a fast/nasty/lay the lumber to you D.
3) Oline was in shape last year but outside AU & TAM games ... mostly played soft. I attribute this to blocking scheme and maybe technique cause Piroli had them in shape.

Some of those DUDES were created ... they just didn't show up on campus as DUDES. Jenkins is a prime example. Hoyett is another. McLaurin is another but .. everyone keeps having McLaurin on last year's team but his last year is 2017. Simmons became even more of a DUDE too. Abrams played much better after Toughness Tuesdays were instituted last year.

I will somewhat agree from the seniors standpoint that the leadership was great on the D side of ball. More vocal leaders over there. Also a senior laden team usually is better than a mixture of a few seniors, juniors, and sophs. And on the D side we did have more DUDES on the Dline and Backend without a doubt.

I hear ya. Just trying to figure out how much softness on D is personnel vs joe. OL May be slightly more soft this year, but also has been dealing with lots of injuries.

[dawgday166]

Mark McLaurin played and started 12 games last year

Well, I guess you right. I sho was thinking for some reason he graduated in year before.

[Tbonewannabe]

I mostly agree but will play devils advocate.

We were not soft in 2018 when we had seniors like green, sweat, hoyett, Thomas, Peters, Mclaurin, and abram and Simmons. If we had those guys now would we be soft? Is our softness a joe culture thing or a lack of DUDES thing?

You also had really good leaders from those players that knew what it took. Those same guys went toe to toe against Bama in 2017 and should have won. I think you could have not had a S&C coach and those players would have still came in ready to tear heads off on gameday. It probably allowed coaches to not worry about it as much and now that they are gone, there is a void in that leadership. We also brought in new coaches which could have affected it also.