ESPNU XM radio talking about Joe Moorhead today. The one host who said he knew

[99jc]

Moorhead well and was in Starkville a week ago. Said Moorhead appeared to be done and was ready to go. Said Joe was a good coach and well-liked but for some reason his system just wont work in SEC. Both commentators agreed Mullen's set a standard here and MSU fans will never settle for the way it used to be!

[TrapGame]

Mullen proved you can win at State. Good coaching mixed with top 25 recruiting and we can be a perennial 8-4 team. And every three or four years go 9-3/10-2.

Unfortunately for Joe he has realized he is in over his head in the SEC. Most SEC defenses are built to confound his offensive scheme. It will work great in the Big10, Big East, Big12 probably but defenses with speed and strength will blow it up most of the time. Even he said his biggest surprise from last year was the speed and athleticism of SEC defenses. He wasn't ready.

[KOdawg1]

The more that stuff like this gets out there, the more likely I think we make a move. I dont think there is a national media member out there claiming he should get another year.

[Maverick]

I call bullshit, this narrative that you can't run this offense at State is so old. Can't never could....

[confucius say]

Mullen had good coaching and top 25 recruiting and never was a Perennial 8-4 team.

2009 no
2010 yes
2011 no
2012 yes
2013 no
2014 yes
2015 yes
2016 no
2017 yes

He did show we could be a perennial bowl team though, which was fantastic.

[TrapGame]

Mullen had good coaching and top 25 recruiting and never was a Perennial 8-4 team.

2009 no
2010 yes
2011 no
2012 yes
2013 no
2014 yes
2015 yes
2016 no
2017 yes

He did show we could be a perennial bowl team though, which was fantastic.

5 outta 9 years at 8-4 or better is pretty damn good. Considering the 5 yrs of Croom that was a miracle. Because of him MSU is not considered a job where coaches go to die.

[dawgday166]

Mullen had good coaching and top 25 recruiting and never was a Perennial 8-4 team.

2009 no
2010 yes
2011 no
2012 yes
2013 no
2014 yes
2015 yes
2016 no
2017 yes

He did show we could be a perennial bowl team though, which was fantastic.

Of the many things that folks forget about Mullen's early years (and I do too) ... one is that he was turning over offensive staff (as well as DCs) a good bit then too. He finally gave up on hiring Co-OCs and did it himself too. He settled his offensive staff out in 2013/2014 timeframe if I recall correctly.

[Jack Lambert]

5 outta 9 years at 8-4 or better is pretty damn good. Considering the 5 yrs of Croom that was a miracle. Because of him MSU is not considered a job where coaches go to die.

The other four were two 5 win regular season and two 6 win regular season and I remember as a fact that many of same things were being said about Mullen those bad years. Mullen got more of a pass because he had several good season.

[HailStateSZN19]

Seems there’s just too many media members talking about this pretty much since after UT for there not to be something legit here. Just seems like it’s getting out more and more after each loss. There’s still folks denying that this is happening or will happen after the year but there’s some on here who have some inside knowledge and hear things saying it’s in the works and stuff like this just seems to back that up. There’s more and more smoke with this every week.

[Tbonewannabe]

Of the many things that folks forget about Mullen's early years (and I do too) ... one is that he was turning over offensive staff (as well as DCs) a good bit then too. He finally gave up on hiring Co-OCs and did it himself too. He settled his offensive staff out in 2013/2014 timeframe if I recall correctly.

One thing most head coaches do is let someone else call plays until they get their feet under them. There is too much for a head coach to do until you get the experience of doing all the little things. Joe trying to call plays while learning how to be a SEC Head coach was a recipe for disaster. Malzahn, Mullen, and Spurrier all at one time had an OC calling plays. Now I am sure they were steadily giving input just like any other head coach but for the most part, other guys were calling the plays.

[Tbonewannabe]

The other four were two 5 win regular season and two 6 win regular season and I remember as a fact that many of same things were being said about Mullen those bad years. Mullen got more of a pass because he had several good season.

The only thing with most of those seasons, we didn't look soft and slow. We might not have executed well at times, especially when we had Russell who didn't fit well with Mullen's system, but we had the effort and toughness. Moorhead has instilled the opposite and that isn't going to work in the SEC West. Even Vandy has really only competed when they got tougher as a team.

[RocketDawg]

Moorhead well and was in Starkville a week ago. Said Moorhead appeared to be done and was ready to go. Said Joe was a good coach and well-liked but for some reason his system just wont work in SEC. Both commentators agreed Mullen's set a standard here and MSU fans will never settle for the way it used to be!

Unless he's living under a rock, he knows that fans are not happy, at least those who post on fan message boards. I've not read local newspapers but they're probably saying similar things. Joe's under extreme pressure, and that's a shame but understandable. I really like him and wish he could win out and be succesful at MSU, but that doesn't look to be possible.

[Tbonewannabe]

Unless he's living under a rock, he knows that fans are not happy, at least those who post on fan message boards. I've not read local newspapers but they're probably saying similar things. Joe's under extreme pressure, and that's a shame but understandable. I really like him and wish he could win out and be succesful at MSU, but that doesn't look to be possible.

The last few press conferences looks like a man working out his two weeks notice. He just seems to be going through the motions.

[Coach34]

Mullen had good coaching and top 25 recruiting and never was a Perennial 8-4 team.

2009 no
2010 yes
2011 no
2012 yes
2013 no
2014 yes
2015 yes
2016 no
2017 yes

He did show we could be a perennial bowl team though, which was fantastic.

Once Mullen stabilizes the program- we went 8-4 or better 3 of his last 4 years and 2018
would have been 4/5. Yes- he built an 8-4 program

[DogsofAnarchy]

Once Mullen stabilizes the program- we went 8-4 or better 3 of his last 4 years and 2018
would have been 4/5. Yes- he built an 8-4 program

Absolutely!! There is no reason why we can’t win 7 or 8 every year. A down year should be 6-6. We won’t get to that this year.

Check your messages C34.

[R2Dawg]

The other four were two 5 win regular season and two 6 win regular season and I remember as a fact that many of same things were being said about Mullen those bad years. Mullen got more of a pass because he had several good season.

His first year 5-7, was the most excitement in MSU football since 2001. We were 3 plays from 3 more wins against 3 top 25 teams that year. That 2009 team would be us this year by 4TDs. Apples and oranges comparison. It is more about trajectory what each showed they could do in first two years.

[confucius say]

The only thing with most of those seasons, we didn't look soft and slow. We might not have executed well at times, especially when we had Russell who didn't fit well with Mullen's system, but we had the effort and toughness. Moorhead has instilled the opposite and that isn't going to work in the SEC West. Even Vandy has really only competed when they got tougher as a team.

******* teams were usually tough, but that 2016 team was charmin soft. Not coincidentally, it was also lacking DUDES, just like 2019, and had young/inexperienced guys all over the place, just like 2019.

Joes 2018 team that had DUDES was plenty physical, so not sure if what changed was the players or the coaching

[confucius say]

Once Mullen stabilizes the program- we went 8-4 or better 3 of his last 4 years and 2018
would have been 4/5. Yes- he built an 8-4 program

Wait, are you saying it took Dan from December 2008 to August 2014 to stabilize the program? Get out of here.

He had it stabilized after 2010 and had a 6-6 2011 and 2013 and a 5-7 2016.

The truth is he learned and developed and became a better coach and from year 6 in 2014 going forward he had us as a consistent 8-4 type program. But that 2011 coaching job with nfl guys everywhere was bad. And 2013.

[Political Hack]

I call bullshit, this narrative that you can't run this offense at State is so old. Can't never could....

I suppose it can be run... it just doesn't work against SEC defenses.

[OLJWales]

I think one of the reasons Mullen succeeded at MSU was his experience at UF where he got to know the different culture down south where many of the players grow up in fatherless homes with little discipline creating an extra role in coaching duties. Setting off season S&C rules and demanding they return in football shape in the spring and fall requires work and a S&C Coach who gets in their face and let's 'em know what's up.

[Todd4State]

The more that stuff like this gets out there, the more likely I think we make a move. I dont think there is a national media member out there claiming he should get another year.

I think the odds are high that he is gone even if we go 6-6. Now we may not fire him- he could leave on his own.

[Todd4State]

I suppose it can be run... it just doesn't work against SEC defenses.

Dan’s offense doesn’t work with lack of discipline and physical play either.

[confucius say]

I think the odds are high that he is gone even if we go 6-6. Now we may not fire him- he could leave on his own.

Prob best case scenario

[Coach34]

Wait, are you saying it took Dan from December 2008 to August 2014 to stabilize the program? Get out of here.

He had it stabilized after 2010 and had a 6-6 2011 and 2013 and a 5-7 2016.

The truth is he learned and developed and became a better coach and from year 6 in 2014 going forward he had us as a consistent 8-4 type program. But that 2011 coaching job with nfl guys everywhere was bad. And 2013.

No he did not. He kept Croom's recruiting class together and had 1 recruiting class on campus at the end of 2010 as he had taken over a losing program. Just because we had had 1 winning season didnt mean we had a stable program. It just meant he had gotten things going in the right direction. We were lacking in the trenches in 2011 and paid for it. Ralph took a beating in 2011.

It takes a few years to stabilize a losing program and get the player numbers where you need them to be to fit what you are trying to do. It took us a few years to get some decent WR's on campus. But by 2013- we took some blows with a young team- but you could see what was coming with Dak and crew. Mullen finally stabilized the program on a solid foundation and the results show it. 4/5 years with a team that won at least 8 games with 2014 and 2018 teams capable of winning the West.

[Turfdawg67]

5 outta 9 years at 8-4 or better is pretty damn good. Considering the 5 yrs of Croom that was a miracle. Because of him MSU is not considered a job where coaches go to die.

Agreed. And I was a Mullen fan, but perennial 8-4 is a stretch. And his best teams vastly underperformed... usually because he was too conservative or searching for a different gig.

[confucius say]

No he did not. He kept Croom's recruiting class together and had 1 recruiting class on campus at the end of 2010 as he had taken over a losing program. Just because we had had 1 winning season didnt mean we had a stable program. It just meant he had gotten things going in the right direction. We were lacking in the trenches in 2011 and paid for it. Ralph took a beating in 2011.

It takes a few years to stabilize a losing program and get the player numbers where you need them to be to fit what you are trying to do. It took us a few years to get some decent WR's on campus. But by 2013- we took some blows with a young team- but you could see what was coming with Dak and crew. Mullen finally stabilized the program on a solid foundation and the results show it. 4/5 years with a team that won at least 8 games with 2014 and 2018 teams capable of winning the West.

1. We had 19 nfl players on the roster in 2011 and several other good pieces like bumphis and heavens etc... Plenty stable from a roster standpoint.

2. No coach, including dan, needs 5 years and 9 months to get a program stabilized. Crazy talk. Dan got it rolling in 2014 bc he finally got it right at qb with Dak and then, for his system, fitz.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

The kicker, and this is a big if, is the possibility (probability?) that Joe takes the lessons he’s learned at State and emerges from the experience a dang good coach. It won’t be in the SEC, of course. And the reality that we’ve been a top notch training site for successful coaches/AD’s, while not all bad, is a kick in the teeth.

[ShotgunDawg]

I suppose it can be run... it just doesn't work against SEC defenses.

I wasn't aware that Kansas State & Iowa were in the SEC

It may have less to do with the SEC and the offense & more to do with him just being a crappy coach

[ShotgunDawg]

The kicker, and this is a big if, is the possibility (probability?) that Joe takes the lessons he?s learned at State and emerges from the experience a dang good coach. It won?t be in the SEC, of course. And the reality that we?ve been a top notch training site for successful coaches/AD?s, while not all bad, is a kick in the teeth.

He'll have to walk into a situation that built differently than MSU.

For example: say Mike Leach left Wazzou. Moorhead would actually more of a running game to their offense with a QB & WRs that are already used to passing. Under those circumstances, it may take less time to implement things

[Coach34]

1. We had 19 nfl players on the roster in 2011 and several other good pieces like bumphis and heavens etc... Plenty stable from a roster standpoint.

2011 roster:

Ben Beckwith- Freshman
Blaine Clausell- Freshman
Dillon Day- Freshman
Kaleb Eulls- Freshman
Gabe Jackson- Soph
Malcolm Johnson Freshman
PJ Jones- Freshman
Jameon Lewis- Freshman
Benardrick McKinney- redshirted
Dak Prescott- Freshman
Josh Robinson- Freshman
Justin Malone- Freshman
Tyler Russell- Soph
Deonte Skinner- Soph
Preston Smith- Freshman
Rufus Warren- Freshman
Matthew Wells- Freshman

You can spout out your BS all you want- but the 2011 team wasnt ready to win with all the youth it had.

[ShotgunDawg]

2011 roster:

Ben Beckwith- Freshman
Blaine Clausell- Freshman
Dillon Day- Freshman
Kaleb Eulls- Freshman
Gabe Jackson- Soph
Malcolm Johnson Freshman
PJ Jones- Freshman
Jameon Lewis- Freshman
Benardrick McKinney- redshirted
Dak Prescott- Freshman
Josh Robinson- Freshman
Justin Malone- Freshman
Tyler Russell- Soph
Deonte Skinner- Soph
Preston Smith- Freshman
Rufus Warren- Freshman
Matthew Wells- Freshman

You can spout out your BS all you want- but the 2011 team wasnt ready to win with all the youth it had.

You never answered my question in the Grantham Hud thread about whether it work? What do you think?

[Mobile Bay]

Mullen had good coaching and top 25 recruiting and never was a Perennial 8-4 team.

2009 no
2010 yes
2011 no
2012 yes
2013 no
2014 yes
2015 yes
2016 no
2017 yes

He did show we could be a perennial bowl team though, which was fantastic.

To be fair Mullen's arrival also coincided with about the same time ESPN started greatly expanding the number of bowls. For most of history only top teams went to bowl games. Now about half of teams go to one. So "making a bowl" isn't what it used to be. I was not overly proud of playing in the St. Petersburg bowl and barely squeaking out a win against a MAC team, for example.

[Coach34]

You never answered my question in the Grantham Hud thread about whether it work? What do you think?

Didnt read the thread.

Hud is unlikely to return unless its as HC.
Grantham isnt returning unless its as HC unless he got some kind of insane deal and a 4 year deal to allow him to watch his son play baseball.

Hud is a good offensive coach and Grantham is a good defensive coach. Both would want to be HC.

[RocketDawg]

I think the odds are high that he is gone even if we go 6-6. Now we may not fire him- he could leave on his own.

I think that's quite possible. There's no way he could be happy in the job now with all the losses, and basically the loss and support of the fanbase. But ... I could put up with a lot of criticism and losses if I made multi-millions a year. I don't think he'll just quit with no place to go.

[Coach34]

I don't think he'll just quit with no place to go.

No he won't. But his agent is actively searching for somewhere else for him to go.

[dantheman4248]

2013 we dealt with QB controversy and injuries to that position all year and had 6 losses to top 20 teams. One of the most ridiculous schedules State has ever had. Once we went on our run in 2012, Mullen had established MSU as moving up a tier in the SEC ranks. 2016 was the only year that faltered and that was because of one of the worst misses at DC of all time in Sirmon. 2012-2018 Mullen had built a foundation of a mid-tier SECw school. We were no longer basement dwellers. We were in the group of A&M and Auburn. Bama / LSU; A&M / State / Auburn; OM / Ark.

In a year and a half it’s now Bama / LSU; Auburn / A&M; OM / Ark / State.

He undid something Mullen preserved for 7 years that fast.

[Coach34]

2014-2018

4 years of winning 8 regular season games out of 5 seasons- with 2 of those seasons being good enough to win 10

If thats not building a program I dont know what is.

[confucius say]

2011 roster:

Ben Beckwith- Freshman
Blaine Clausell- Freshman
Dillon Day- Freshman
Kaleb Eulls- Freshman
Gabe Jackson- Soph
Malcolm Johnson Freshman
PJ Jones- Freshman
Jameon Lewis- Freshman
Benardrick McKinney- redshirted
Dak Prescott- Freshman
Josh Robinson- Freshman
Justin Malone- Freshman
Tyler Russell- Soph
Deonte Skinner- Soph
Preston Smith- Freshman
Rufus Warren- Freshman
Matthew Wells- Freshman

You can spout out your BS all you want- but the 2011 team wasnt ready to win with all the youth it had.

My BS?

2011 had:

Nfl jr corner banks
Nfl jr corner slay
Nfl sr safety Charles Mitchell
Jr corner Broomfield
RS Sophomore starter Whitley
Nfl LB jr cam lawerence
Nfl LB RS soph deonte skinner
Nfl DT jr fletcher cox
NFL DT jr josh Boyd

Thats 7 NFL starters on defense who were all in at least their third college season plus veterans like broom and redshirt soph Whitley.

Who is spouting BS again? Would you like to look at the offense too?

Sr nfl rb Ballard and a soph Perkins who was with the Steelers practice squad multiple years.
Three upperclassmen wr in bumphis, heavens, and smith.
Sr qb in relf
Nfl RS soph Gabe Jackson on the OL along with seniors saulsberry and Lawrence and jr Tobias smith.

Tell me again how that team just had so much youth that it could not win while ignoring the 9 upperclassmen NFL starters.

[HailStateSZN19]

No he won't. But his agent is actively searching for somewhere else for him to go.

Do you think he’s been humbled enough and wants to get out bad enough that he’d even consider leaving for a P5 OC position somewhere? That might be a dumb question but if he’s had enough here and wants out bad enough, I’m doubting there’s enough people beating down his agents door for him to be their HC after the last 2 years here (unless he off 6-6 this year and just wants to leave here anyways). I know that’d be a huge pay-cut to go down from our HC to an OC but is he ONLY leaving for another HC job (*thats if he’s not fired if we end up 4-8)?

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Mullen proved you can win at State. Good coaching mixed with top 25 recruiting and we can be a perennial 8-4 team. And every three or four years go 9-3/10-2.

Unfortunately for Joe he has realized he is in over his head in the SEC. Most SEC defenses are built to confound his offensive scheme. It will work great in the Big10, Big East, Big12 probably but defenses with speed and strength will blow it up most of the time. Even he said his biggest surprise from last year was the speed and athleticism of SEC defenses. He wasn't ready.

Big East? I would love to see his offense on the hardwood...

[Todd4State]

I think that's quite possible. There's no way he could be happy in the job now with all the losses, and basically the loss and support of the fanbase. But ... I could put up with a lot of criticism and losses if I made multi-millions a year. I don't think he'll just quit with no place to go.

I really think it comes down to how miserable he is. If the story about his daughter is true and someone offers him 1.5 million to coach somewhere that’s a better fit it may be worth it.

Of course in my mind there is a lot more wiggle room with millions vs thousands and lifestyle.

And then there is the angle of how much he potentially loses in the long run if he is fired here instead of taking a paycut? If he does well at Rutgers or Illinois he may be able to get back to 2.5 million fairly quickly. Of course in my opinion there is a decent chance someone up north would pay him 2.5 million to coach in the Big 10.

So in my mind him leaving may be the best thing for him too.

[Lord McBuckethead]

******* teams were usually tough, but that 2016 team was charmin soft. Not coincidentally, it was also lacking DUDES, just like 2019, and had young/inexperienced guys all over the place, just like 2019.

Joes 2018 team that had DUDES was plenty physical, so not sure if what changed was the players or the coaching

Not a bad take.

[TALL DAWG]

My BS?

2011 had:

Nfl jr corner banks
Nfl jr corner slay
Nfl sr safety Charles Mitchell
Jr corner Broomfield
RS Sophomore starter Whitley
Nfl LB jr cam lawerence
Nfl LB RS soph deonte skinner
Nfl DT jr fletcher cox
NFL DT jr josh Boyd

Thats 7 NFL starters on defense who were all in at least their third college season plus veterans like broom and redshirt soph Whitley.

Who is spouting BS again? Would you like to look at the offense too?

Sr nfl rb Ballard and a soph Perkins who was with the Steelers practice squad multiple years.
Three upperclassmen wr in bumphis, heavens, and smith.
Sr qb in relf
Nfl RS soph Gabe Jackson on the OL along with seniors saulsberry and Lawrence and jr Tobias smith.

Tell me again how that team just had so much youth that it could not win while ignoring the 9 upperclassmen NFL starters.

Confucius for the win...😂
Some talent on that roster.

[msstate7]

I call bullshit, this narrative that you can't run this offense at State is so old. Can't never could....

All we need is an nfl qb, nfl te, 2 nfl WRs, and 2 nfl RBs in which one is the most talented RB in the world. Then it will work.

[StateDawg44]

All we need is an nfl qb, nfl te, 2 nfl WRs, and 2 nfl RBs in which one is the most talented RB in the world. Then it will work.

Also notice they haven't skipped a beat without him up there.

[Thick]

My BS?

2011 had:

Nfl jr corner banks
Nfl jr corner slay
Nfl sr safety Charles Mitchell
Jr corner Broomfield
RS Sophomore starter Whitley
Nfl LB jr cam lawerence
Nfl LB RS soph deonte skinner
Nfl DT jr fletcher cox
NFL DT jr josh Boyd

Thats 7 NFL starters on defense who were all in at least their third college season plus veterans like broom and redshirt soph Whitley.

Who is spouting BS again? Would you like to look at the offense too?

Sr nfl rb Ballard and a soph Perkins who was with the Steelers practice squad multiple years.
Three upperclassmen wr in bumphis, heavens, and smith.
Sr qb in relf
Nfl RS soph Gabe Jackson on the OL along with seniors saulsberry and Lawrence and jr Tobias smith.

Tell me again how that team just had so much youth that it could not win while ignoring the 9 upperclassmen NFL starters.

You do realize that every player you listed was defensive, and about 90% of C34's were offensive. The point being that the Dan's offensive personnel were youngsters in 2011. Plus, we really didn't see how good Dan's offense could really be until he had a complete QB along with some supporting cast, and that's when we really started to see just how good Dan's offense really was when the talent was there and ready.

[Tbonewannabe]

You do realize that every player you listed was defensive, and about 90% of C34's were offensive. The point being that the Dan's offensive personnel were youngsters in 2011. Plus, we really didn't see how good Dan's offense could really be until he had a complete QB along with some supporting cast, and that's when we really started to see just how good Dan's offense really was when the talent was there and ready.

In 2011, didn't Relf play hurt for the majority of the year also?

[Coach34]

My BS?

2011 had:

Nfl jr corner banks
Nfl jr corner slay
Nfl sr safety Charles Mitchell
Jr corner Broomfield
RS Sophomore starter Whitley
Nfl LB jr cam lawerence
Nfl LB RS soph deonte skinner
Nfl DT jr fletcher cox
NFL DT jr josh Boyd

Thats 7 NFL starters on defense who were all in at least their third college season plus veterans like broom and redshirt soph Whitley.

Who is spouting BS again? Would you like to look at the offense too?

Sr nfl rb Ballard and a soph Perkins who was with the Steelers practice squad multiple years.
Three upperclassmen wr in bumphis, heavens, and smith.
Sr qb in relf
Nfl RS soph Gabe Jackson on the OL along with seniors saulsberry and Lawrence and jr Tobias smith.

Tell me again how that team just had so much youth that it could not win while ignoring the 9 upperclassmen NFL starters.

obviously you do not remember the injuries we had to the OL and Relf. Clausell and Day made 4 starts and 6 starts. Tobias Smith was lost for the season after only 3 starts. Carmon was moved from DT to OT to help out- making 7 starts. Relf only started 8 of 13 games due to being beat the hell up. Every player on the OL missed at least 3 starts that year.

and the WR group? Was a lot worse than what we are putting on the field every Saturday this season.

We were 16th in the country in Scoring D- so we got the most out of our talent. We lost a close one at Auburn and lost @Georgia. Also lost to #3 LSU, #15 SC, #3 Bama, and #6 UPig.

[sandwolf]

obviously you do not remember the injuries we had to the OL and Relf. Clausell and Day made 4 starts and 6 starts. Tobias Smith was lost for the season after only 3 starts. Carmon was moved from DT to OT to help out- making 7 starts. Relf only started 8 of 13 games due to being beat the hell up. Every player on the OL missed at least 3 starts that year.

and the WR group? Was a lot worse than what we are putting on the field every Saturday this season.

We were 16th in the country in Scoring D- so we got the most out of our talent. We lost a close one at Auburn and lost @Georgia. Also lost to #3 LSU, #15 SC, #3 Bama, and #6 UPig.

Yep, the O line and a brutal schedule killed us that year.

[confucius say]

You do realize that every player you listed was defensive, and about 90% of C34's were offensive. The point being that the Dan's offensive personnel were youngsters in 2011. Plus, we really didn't see how good Dan's offense could really be until he had a complete QB along with some supporting cast, and that's when we really started to see just how good Dan's offense really was when the talent was there and ready.

Youngsters?
Sr relf.
Sr Ballard.
Three upperclassmen wr in bump, heavens, and smith.
2 Sr OL in saulsberry and Lawrence and a jr OL in Smith and a NFL redshirt soph OL in Gabe.

[confucius say]

obviously you do not remember the injuries we had to the OL and Relf. Clausell and Day made 4 starts and 6 starts. Tobias Smith was lost for the season after only 3 starts. Carmon was moved from DT to OT to help out- making 7 starts. Relf only started 8 of 13 games due to being beat the hell up. Every player on the OL missed at least 3 starts that year.

and the WR group? Was a lot worse than what we are putting on the field every Saturday this season.

We were 16th in the country in Scoring D- so we got the most out of our talent. We lost a close one at Auburn and lost @Georgia. Also lost to #3 LSU, #15 SC, #3 Bama, and #6 UPig.

I remember the injuries very well. None of those 9 upperclassmen starters who were NFL guys are in that injury report though. We were preseason top 20 that year and cratered, beating only 2-10 Memphis, la tech in overtime, 3-9 uab, ten Martin, 5-7 ky, and 2-10 OM. I will always be pro Dan, but that was his worst coaching job, including worse than 2016.

And this 2019 team will miss way more starts and playing time between injuries/suspensions than that 2011 team did, yet I do not see the same excuses being made for this team cratering.

[Coach34]

I remember the injuries very well. None of those 9 upperclassmen starters who were NFL guys are in that injury report though. We were preseason top 20 that year and cratered, beating only 2-10 Memphis, la tech in overtime, 3-9 uab, ten Martin, 5-7 ky, and 2-10 OM. I will always be pro Dan, but that was his worst coaching job, including worse than 2016.

And this 2019 team will miss way more starts and playing time between injuries/suspensions than that 2011 team did, yet I do not see the same excuses being made for this team cratering.

A) as I pointed out- our defense was really good that season

B) our offense got beat up and struggled

C) we didn’t lose a game we were favored in that season. Our worst loss was to 8-5 Auburn on the road. The other 5 losses were to 10 plus win teams

**Edited to add- you keep throwing Bumphis and crew out there. Bumphis wouldn’t have started for this year’s team and was by far the best of that crew.

[Thick]

Youngsters?
Sr relf.
Sr Ballard.
Three upperclassmen wr in bump, heavens, and smith.
2 Sr OL in saulsberry and Lawrence and a jr OL in Smith and a NFL redshirt soph OL in Gabe.

No big receivers, a QB that could run and pass a little is the point I’m making. The younger offensive players were the pieces, especially at QB, Dan was needing to being consistent and well rounded/balanced offensively. That’s all I’m saying. Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but from an offensive stance we were much harder to prep for defensively bc we were much more balanced.

[BrunswickDawg]

obviously you do not remember the injuries we had to the OL and Relf. Clausell and Day made 4 starts and 6 starts. Tobias Smith was lost for the season after only 3 starts. Carmon was moved from DT to OT to help out- making 7 starts. Relf only started 8 of 13 games due to being beat the hell up. Every player on the OL missed at least 3 starts that year.

and the WR group? Was a lot worse than what we are putting on the field every Saturday this season.

We were 16th in the country in Scoring D- so we got the most out of our talent. We lost a close one at Auburn and lost @Georgia. Also lost to #3 LSU, #15 SC, #3 Bama, and #6 UPig.

Wait - how is Chad Bumphis worse than any receiver we have on the field in 2019? Our #2 all-time in receiving yards. Arceto Clark and Chris Smith are both in our Top 20. Malcolm Johnson spent time with the Packers (yes, he was Freshman, but he had 3 TDs)

Now, our passing game that season wasn't great - between Relf being injured and Russell being raw, and the OL issues. You can make that argument for sure. But give me Bumphis, Clark and Smith any day over our current crew.

[confucius say]

A) as I pointed out- our defense was really good that season

B) our offense got beat up and struggled

C) we didn’t lose a game we were favored in that season. Our worst loss was to 8-5 Auburn on the road. The other 5 losses were to 10 plus win teams

**Edited to add- you keep throwing Bumphis and crew out there. Bumphis wouldn’t have started for this year’s team and was by far the best of that crew.

A) our defense was good. I would not say really good. Giving up 40+ to a 7-5 auburn team that was at the bottom of the sec offensively is still a head scratcher.

B) you posted last week, paraphrasing, that injuries happen to every team and is not an excuse.

C) we were favored at auburn. I know bc I gave the points and lost.

Bumphis would not start in 2019? What? He was on a nfl practice squad. I am not sure we have any starting wr now who will be.

We underachieved in 2011. That is my only point. We are lucky we got to play three losing record G5 teams and La Tech and did not have to play a P5 nonconfernce team like a Top 25 KSU or we would have been 5-7.

[Really Clark?]

A) our defense was good. I would not say really good. Giving up 40+ to a 7-5 auburn team that was at the bottom of the sec offensively is still a head scratcher.

B) you posted last week, paraphrasing, that injuries happen to every team and is not an excuse.

C) we were favored at auburn. I know bc I gave the points and lost.

Bumphis would not start in 2019? What? He was on a nfl practice squad. I am not sure we have any starting wr now who will be.

We underachieved in 2011. That is my only point. We are lucky we got to play three losing record G5 teams and La Tech and did not have to play a P5 nonconfernce team like a Top 25 KSU or we would have been 5-7.

That 2011 defense was 4th in the league in scoring (16th nationally), 5th vs conference games (34th nationally) and 3rd in the league vs ranked opponents (8th national and only a couple teams played more ranked teams 6 compared to our 5 ranked opponents). Our S & P was 18th nationally. That?s dang good.

We held Bama, LSU, South Car and UNM 8 points or more below their conference per game offensive scoring average. Never mind that Bama and LSU played for the national title that year from our own division, ARK only losses were to Bama and LSU, South Car only losses were to ARK and Auburn, Georgia losses were to South Car by 3 and LSU and Boise St who was 12-1 with a 1 point loss to TCU

And vs Auburn the defense have 34, one was a pick 6, and their first TD game from great field position off of a punt, they started at our 36 yard line.

[confucius say]

That 2011 defense was 4th in the league in scoring (16th nationally), 5th vs conference games (34th nationally) and 3rd in the league vs ranked opponents (8th national and only a couple teams played more ranked teams 6 compared to our 5 ranked opponents). Our S & P was 18th nationally. That?s dang good.

We held Bama, LSU, South Car and UNM 8 points or more below their conference per game offensive scoring average. Never mind that Bama and LSU played for the national title that year from our own division, ARK only losses were to Bama and LSU, South Car only losses were to ARK and Auburn, Georgia losses were to South Car by 3 and LSU and Boise St who was 12-1 with a 1 point loss to TCU

And vs Auburn the defense have 34, one was a pick 6, and their first TD game from great field position off of a punt, they started at our 36 yard line.

It was a good defense. I dont dispute that. Top 5 in the league. I hate we did not get more out of that team than 6-6.

[MoreCowbell]

My BS?

2011 had:

Nfl jr corner banks
Nfl jr corner slay
Nfl sr safety Charles Mitchell
Jr corner Broomfield
RS Sophomore starter Whitley
Nfl LB jr cam lawerence
Nfl LB RS soph deonte skinner
Nfl DT jr fletcher cox
NFL DT jr josh Boyd

Thats 7 NFL starters on defense who were all in at least their third college season plus veterans like broom and redshirt soph Whitley.

Who is spouting BS again? Would you like to look at the offense too?

Sr nfl rb Ballard and a soph Perkins who was with the Steelers practice squad multiple years.
Three upperclassmen wr in bumphis, heavens, and smith.
Sr qb in relf
Nfl RS soph Gabe Jackson on the OL along with seniors saulsberry and Lawrence and jr Tobias smith.

Tell me again how that team just had so much youth that it could not win while ignoring the 9 upperclassmen NFL starters.

You?re wrong man just let it die

[Political Hack]

I wasn't aware that Kansas State & Iowa were in the SEC

It may have less to do with the SEC and the offense & more to do with him just being a crappy coach

The list wasn't meant to be exhaustive. I just noted that it's not working against the SEC, and that's enough cause.

[Really Clark?]

It was a good defense. I dont dispute that. Top 5 in the league. I hate we did not get more out of that team than 6-6.

I hear ya. Honestly even if our offense didn’t have the injuries and Relf stayed healthy all year, I just can’t seeing us going better than 7-5. Maybe 8-4 with an upset over So Car. Bama, LSU and ARK were the 3 best teams in the country that year and we didn’t play well enough against GA on the road to win. 2010 and 2011 was historically the most brutal division of any conference, ever. Heck we go 8-4 in reg season in 2010 and finished 15th nationally because our only losses were to Top 10-12 teams. Just brutal.

[Coach34]

And this 2019 team will miss way more starts and playing time between injuries/suspensions than that 2011 team did, yet I do not see the same excuses being made for this team cratering.

How so?

We didnt have 1 player on the OL start all 13 games. The most starts was 10. 2 freshmen started 4 and 6 games respectively. Relf only started 8 of 13 games. Awful WR's and injuries killed the 2011 offense

We havent started a freshman on the OL have we this year?
JoVester made a mess of the QB situation so he gets no quarter there. Our 4th string QB in 2-0 as a college starter and has no chance to play every Saturday. JoVester chose that route.
Our Safeties keep on rolling
Leo and Errol keep starting
Rivers and Spencer keep starting.
Losing a CB hurts- sure. Autry has hurt some- but lets not act like Autry is some all-star- he isnt.

In 2011- we were good on one side of the ball. In 2019- we arent good at anything. As bad as we struggled in 2011 offensively with injuries and awful WR's- we were still 72nd in offense nationally. We are 90th this year. That should wow everyone

[confucius say]

How so?

We didnt have 1 player on the OL start all 13 games. The most starts was 10. 2 freshmen started 4 and 6 games respectively. Relf only started 8 of 13 games. Awful WR's and injuries killed the 2011 offense

We havent started a freshman on the OL have we this year?
JoVester made a mess of the QB situation so he gets no quarter there. Our 4th string QB in 2-0 as a college starter and has no chance to play every Saturday. JoVester chose that route.
Our Safeties keep on rolling
Leo and Errol keep starting
Rivers and Spencer keep starting.
Losing a CB hurts- sure. Autry has hurt some- but lets not act like Autry is some all-star- he isnt.

In 2011- we were good on one side of the ball. In 2019- we arent good at anything. As bad as we struggled in 2011 offensively with injuries and awful WR's- we were still 72nd in offense nationally. We are 90th this year. That should wow everyone

Dont get me wrong, I am not defending this season at all. I just think it is interesting that you blame the injuries for 2011 but not the injuries/suspensions for 2019. Especially if both teams end up 6-6.

But to answer your question, as for starts:
Gay - 8
Autry - 8
Smitherman - 7
Tyler Williams - 1
Dantzler - 2 and counting
TS - at least 1 while a starter
Eiland - 1 and counting
Reese - 1 and counting
Williams - 1 or 2 and counting
Parker - 2

Thats 31-32 off the top of my head, not counting 8 for Murphy (i am not sure he would start anyway but guys like your boy hadad say yes). I will have to look at the participation charts to see how many relf and the OL missed in 2011. How many did Addison laweremce start that year, sure it was not more than 10?

And no, we have not started freshman on the ol, but we have started at least one at DT every game, and two at dt almost every game. This team has been ravaged by injuries/suspensions just as bad as 2011, and I will run the numbers after the season but I would bet moreso.

[dawgday166]

Dont get me wrong, I am not defending this season at all. I just think it is interesting that you blame the injuries for 2011 but not the injuries/suspensions for 2019. Especially if both teams end up 6-6.

But to answer your question, as for starts:
Gay - 8
Autry - 8
Smitherman - 7
Tyler Williams - 1
Dantzler - 2 and counting
TS - at least 1 while a starter
Eiland - 1 and counting
Reese - 1 and counting
Williams - 1 or 2 and counting
Parker - 2

Thats 31-32 off the top of my head, not counting 8 for Murphy (i am not sure he would start anyway but guys like your boy hadad say yes). I will have to look at the participation charts to see how many relf and the OL missed in 2011. How many did Addison laweremce start that year, sure it was not more than 10?

And no, we have not started freshman on the ol, but we have started at least one at DT every game, and two at dt almost every game. This team has been ravaged by injuries/suspensions just as bad as 2011, and I will run the numbers after the season but I would bet moreso.

So why has our offense over last year and this year scored only 13 Tds in 21 1st qtrs. Or 2 Tds in 13 SEC 1st qtrs (both last year).

The D is handicapped this year as I have agreed to. I may be somewhat biased toward Shoop but I still believe he is a top-notch DC.

[confucius say]

So why has our offense over last year and this year scored only 13 Tds in 21 1st qtrs. Or 2 Tds in 13 SEC 1st qtrs (both last year).

The D is handicapped this year as I have agreed to. I may be somewhat biased toward Shoop but I still believe he is a top-notch DC.

BC joe has sucked and our players have, largely, underperformed with all the drops, penalties, fumbles, etc.. we also need some nfl caliber guys at the skill positions.

I like shop too

[dawgday166]

BC joe has sucked and our players have, largely, underperformed with all the drops, penalties, fumbles, etc.. we also need some nfl caliber guys at the skill positions.

I like shop too

Just curious and I'm thinking on it myself without looking anything up. I know Mullen had been coaching for 5 years in 2014 but how much NFL talent was on that offense. JRob very briefly, 2014 Dak isn't NFL QB IMO ... he made himself into one over that summer and 2015, Saulsberry briefly?? Day practice squad??

[Coach34]

Dont get me wrong, I am not defending this season at all. I just think it is interesting that you blame the injuries for 2011 but not the injuries/suspensions for 2019. Especially if both teams end up 6-6.

But to answer your question, as for starts:
Gay - 8
Autry - 8
Smitherman - 7
Tyler Williams - 1
Dantzler - 2 and counting
TS - at least 1 while a starter
Eiland - 1 and counting
Reese - 1 and counting
Williams - 1 or 2 and counting
Parker - 2

Thats 31-32 off the top of my head, not counting 8 for Murphy (i am not sure he would start anyway but guys like your boy hadad say yes). I will have to look at the participation charts to see how many relf and the OL missed in 2011. How many did Addison laweremce start that year, sure it was not more than 10?

And no, we have not started freshman on the ol, but we have started at least one at DT every game, and two at dt almost every game. This team has been ravaged by injuries/suspensions just as bad as 2011, and I will run the numbers after the season but I would bet moreso.

Murphy is not a starter
Gay was not a full-time starter last year. Lewis started 10 games last year and has started every game this year. So that doesnt help your cause. Gay hasnt started when he is eligible to play this year.
Smitherman has only missed 2 starts- so we lost to K-State and Tenn with him on the field
Darryl Williams has not missed a start- so you are lying on him.

Bring facts dude- not bullshit

[Coach34]

How many did Addison laweremce start that year, sure it was not more than 10.

I only deal in facts. Lawrence started 10 games in 2011 out of 13.

[confucius say]

Just curious and I'm thinking on it myself without looking anything up. I know Mullen had been coaching for 5 years in 2014 but how much NFL talent was on that offense. JRob very briefly, 2014 Dak isn't NFL QB IMO ... he made himself into one over that summer and 2015, Saulsberry briefly?? Day practice squad??

Dak
Fred brown
Jrov
Malcolm Johnson
Day - practice squad

[dawgday166]

Dak
Fred brown
Jrov
Malcolm Johnson
Day - practice squad

So I'm not counting Dak cause 2014 Dak not same as 2015. 2015 Dak probably beats Bama. I guess if he stayed the same he might've had brief stint in pros. Forgot Malcolm Johnson tho. Fred Brown briefly. And that O was #8 in country. Not too bad.

ETA: A'ight ... I'll let you and C34 go back to duking it out LOL.

[confucius say]

So I'm not counting Dak cause 2014 Dak not same as 2015. 2015 Dak probably beats Bama. I guess if he stayed the same he might've had brief stint in pros. Forgot Malcolm Johnson tho. Fred Brown briefly. And that O was #8 in country. Not too bad.

ETA: A'ight ... I'll let you and C34 go back to duking it out LOL.

Ha. What is funny is me criticizing a Mullen coaching job and him taking up for it. Talk about a 180 from this time three years ago

[dawgday166]

Ha. What is funny is me criticizing a Mullen coaching job and him taking up for it. Talk about a 180 from this time three years ago

I gotta admit I was hard on Mullen a few times myself, but in no way did I want him to leave at end of 2017. Was hoping he'd give us at least one more year and do with that team what should've been done.

[Coach34]

Ha. What is funny is me criticizing a Mullen coaching job and him taking up for it. Talk about a 180 from this time three years ago

I never wanted Mullen gone because of his coaching- I criticized his play-calling in big games and other things for sure. But I never said I wanted him fired- not once. I did say I was ok with Mullen leaving because of his constant job shopping in November. I hated that. I understand looking for the BBD- Ive done it constantly myself- but letting it affect your current job is inexcusable.

His lack of focus on a couple of Egg Bowls not only cost him a couple of wins as a coach- but it cost him a couple of jobs.

[confucius say]

I never wanted Mullen gone because of his coaching- I criticized his play-calling in big games and other things for sure. But I never said I wanted him fired- not once. I did say I was ok with Mullen leaving because of his constant job shopping in November. I hated that. I understand looking for the BBD- Ive done it constantly myself- but letting it affect your current job is inexcusable.

His lack of focus on a couple of Egg Bowls not only cost him a couple of wins as a coach- but it cost him a couple of jobs.

You did not say you were ok with him leaving. You flat told me on here you would prefer he leave. That if you had your way, he would leave.

[confucius say]

Murphy is not a starter
Gay was not a full-time starter last year. Lewis started 10 games last year and has started every game this year. So that doesnt help your cause. Gay hasnt started when he is eligible to play this year.
Smitherman has only missed 2 starts- so we lost to K-State and Tenn with him on the field
Darryl Williams has not missed a start- so you are lying on him.

Bring facts dude- not bullshit

Gay is the best football player on the team. Absolutely a starter. He took over Leos spot after the 9th game last year and started IN PLACE of Leo the last three games of the regular season. Leo and willie both started the bowl game bc we started 3 LB. willie was the starter at that position, not Leo, by last four games of the year. Shoop himself said so when he said willie has ?earned? the right to start. Intellectually dishonest. Try to keep up brother.

Smitherman is out for the year, so add another four. Surely you knew this though?

You are right on Williams. My apologies. Lord knows he has missed a ton of plays this year though.

[confucius say]

I only deal in facts. Lawrence started 10 games in 2011 out of 13.

Are you certain he missed three games? If so, in which 3 games did he not play?

[Lord McBuckethead]

Who didn't want Mullen to leave when he was shopping every single Nov?

[Coach34]

Are you certain he missed three games? If so, in which 3 games did he not play?

I said he didnt start- Not that he didnt play. He was obviously hurt because him missing 3 starts makes no sense if he was well

https://static.hailstate.com/custompages/stats/fb/2011/indgbg.htm#IGBG.PLY

[maroonmania]

Who didn't want Mullen to leave when he was shopping every single Nov?

Agreed, I wish Mullen would have committed to our program but he wouldn't. He was determined to move on. I knew it was over when we went 9-4 in 2015 and won the Belk Bowl and yet he didn't get an extension. Became obvious that Dan was determined to get a higher profile job and that Keenum was sick of it. When we have a coach win 9 games and he doesn't get an extension, especially one like Dan who had proven himself, you can just write it down that its the beginning of the end. Mullen would have left us in 2016 but after finishing 5-7 had nowhere to go. Grantham ended up being his ticket out of here.

[confucius say]

I said he didnt start- Not that he didnt play. He was obviously hurt because him missing 3 starts makes no sense if he was well

https://static.hailstate.com/custompages/stats/fb/2011/indgbg.htm#IGBG.PLY

Look at that chart closely and tell me what you notice about all three games that it says he did not start..... it literally says not a single player on the roster started in any of those three games. There is no data on that chart for who started those three games.

So those 10/13 starts you see for multiple guys, those are actually 13/13 starts. Gabe Jackson, for example, it says started in 10/13 games but he actually started in 13/13 in 2011.

https://hailstate.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2208

Those are your facts.

[Todd4State]

Agreed, I wish Mullen would have committed to our program but he wouldn't. He was determined to move on. I knew it was over when we went 9-4 in 2015 and won the Belk Bowl and yet he didn't get an extension. Became obvious that Dan was determined to get a higher profile job and that Keenum was sick of it. When we have a coach win 9 games and he doesn't get an extension, especially one like Dan who had proven himself, you can just write it down that its the beginning of the end. Mullen would have left us in 2016 but after finishing 5-7 had nowhere to go. Grantham ended up being his ticket out of here.

Grantham is his Joe Lee Dunn.

[Todd4State]

I never wanted Mullen gone because of his coaching- I criticized his play-calling in big games and other things for sure. But I never said I wanted him fired- not once. I did say I was ok with Mullen leaving because of his constant job shopping in November. I hated that. I understand looking for the BBD- Ive done it constantly myself- but letting it affect your current job is inexcusable.

His lack of focus on a couple of Egg Bowls not only cost him a couple of wins as a coach- but it cost him a couple of jobs.

This is spot on. Switching agents helped him out too.