If We had a Do-over, Here's What MSU Should've Done

[ShotgunDawg]

Moorhead has to be fired because he's not the guy, but I also think he took over an impossible situation.

Historically, it's difficult to find examples of outside hires taking over ascending power 5 programs that lost their coach and ended up being successful. It was a unique situation because the players in that situation are basically jilted lovers that feel abandoned. That circumstance makes it almost impossible for the new coach to get buy in unless he's either a better coach than the guy who left or he is an internal promotion and thus had already established a relationship of respect with the players prior and is thus trusted.

The most successful changes are basically transitions to an assistant coach:

Stoops - Riley
Urban - Day
Miles - Orgeron
Osbourn - Solich

Richt - Smart, Bowden - Jimbo, and Chizik - Malzahn were all successful as well but those guys were taking over declining or stagnant programs.

Therefore, it's my opinion that the best route MSU could've taken after the departure of Mullen would've been to hire Grantham as head coach and retain Greg Knox as OC.

I realize that isn't sexy but it would've been our best option. That move would've maintained the culture of the program and created a seamless transition in which the players already respected the coaches and buy in would've been easy.

I'm not sure what type of ceiling that tandem would've had, but we'd be better off today.

Moorhead was put in a difficult social and psychology spot and I think internally promoting would've been the correct option based on historical precedent. It would've allowed us to avoid many of the issues Moorhead has had.

[Irondawg]

I was actually thinking about this last night - we should hire Grantham now and let him bring Elliott or Johnson as OC . Only thing is Grantham was only here a year so we didn't really get to know him well so that's risky.

The biggest problem with Mullen is he didn't develop anyone to take his place - thus the country club moniker. None of those guys or even Knox were really HC types supposedly. Mullen is a pretty good coach but he'll never have a coaching tree I don't think.

People laud Mullen for the FL turnaround and a lot of it is because he's a good coach, but he also took basically his entire staff with him. There was very little training he had to give on how he wanted things to run. From the football side they were able to hit the ground running on how they wanted to built the culture b/c they were already on the same page.

Joe brought in a bunch of various guys and then had a bunch of turnover to this year.

[ShotgunDawg]

I was actually thinking about this last night - we should hire Grantham now and let him bring Elliott or Johnson as OC . Only thing is Grantham was only here a year so we didn't really get to know him well so that's risky.

The biggest problem with Mullen is he didn't develop anyone to take his place - thus the country club moniker. None of those guys or even Knox were really HC types supposedly. Mullen is a pretty good coach but he'll never have a coaching tree I don't think.

People laud Mullen for the FL turnaround and a lot of it is because he's a good coach, but he also took basically his entire staff with him. There was very little training he had to give on how he wanted things to run. From the football side they were able to hit the ground running on how they wanted to built the culture b/c they were already on the same page.

Joe brought in a bunch of various guys and then had a bunch of turnover to this year.

Agree with all.

Mullen's biggest failure at MSU was his inability to develop a replacement. Pretty pathetic after 9 years.

Grantham would be risky now because he may create other issues, BUT he gained the respect of the team while he was here and would thus fix about 90% of our current problems in about a month after taking over.

I'd interview him if I were Cohen and see what his offensive plans would be.

[ShotgunDawg]

Would Hud leave Austin Peay to be Grantham's OC at MSU?

That combo could be hell on wheels for us. It's an incredible fit

[Indndawg]

Would Hud leave Austin Peay to be Grantham's OC at MSU?

That combo could be hell on wheels for us. It's an incredible fit

Dead Indians.

[ShotgunDawg]

Dead Indians.

We'd be the most physical team in college football with a spread option scheme.

We'd also keep our recruiting class.

Grantham/Hud 2020!!!!

There's very little risk here.

[Tbonewannabe]

We'd be the most physical team in college football with a spread option scheme.

We'd also keep our recruiting class.

Grantham/Hud 2020!!!!

There's very little risk here.

A little bit of risk there since Grantham has never been a head coach before. Would he allow Hud to help him or would it be another deal with two alphas butting heads?

[basedog]

I would think Grantham loved Msu, he took Ad out of the paper thanking Msu for his time in StarkVegas. That to me says a lot plus his son committed to play baseball this coming fall.

It's a gamble who ever we hire and half of the other Sec teams or more who they hire. Offenses do sell tickets but again defenses win games as the saying goes. I've said this before but I would approach Bret Venable, he probably makes too much money to come the StarkVegas. Also the Sec is brutal, by far the toughest division in the country, so it's a must whoever we hire is one tough mentally Coach. As we see with Joe, his softness and not knowing the Sec is a big downfall.

I like Grantham's toughness! Not a yes man and again I think he like StarkVegas, I think he is about 53 or 54.

[ShotgunDawg]

A little bit of risk there since Grantham has never been a head coach before. Would he allow Hud to help him or would it be another deal with two alphas butting heads?

That's why you'd have to interview Grantham first. On paper this is an incredible fit for us.

Cohen would have to humble himself though because we'd be more medieval than progressive.

Grantham is our Orgeron with actual coordinator experience

[Really Clark?]

Moorhead has to be fired because he's not the guy, but I also think he took over an impossible situation.

Historically, it's difficult to find examples of outside hires taking over ascending power 5 programs that lost their coach and ended up being successful. It was a unique situation because the players in that situation are basically jilted lovers that feel abandoned. That circumstance makes it almost impossible for the new coach to get buy in unless he's either a better coach than the guy who left or he is an internal promotion and thus had already established a relationship of respect with the players prior and is thus trusted.

The most successful changes are basically transitions to an assistant coach:

Stoops - Riley
Urban - Day
Miles - Orgeron
Osbourn - Solich

Richt - Smart, Bowden - Jimbo, and Chizik - Malzahn were all successful as well but those guys were taking over declining or stagnant programs.

Therefore, it's my opinion that the best route MSU could've taken after the departure of Mullen would've been to hire Grantham as head coach and retain Greg Knox as OC.

I realize that isn't sexy but it would've been our best option. That move would've maintained the culture of the program and created a seamless transition in which the players already respected the coaches and buy in would've been easy.

I'm not sure what type of ceiling that tandem would've had, but we'd be better off today.

Moorhead was put in a difficult social and psychology spot and I think internally promoting would've been the correct option based on historical precedent. It would've allowed us to avoid many of the issues Moorhead has had.

It?s crap shoot either way. Torbush transitioned at UNC from Mack Brown, horrid. Mike Price at Washington St transitioned to Doba good first year then 5, 4, 6, 5 wins the next 4. Rich Brooks to Joker Phillips...really really bad.

Sherrill to Slocum was a good transition.

Oregon has the best run of being able to do this but it?s not always easy and they had a long time of building to get there. If the right guy IS on staff, then great. It is an easy move but it still has to be a good fit. I think with stable programs that have a great foundation, it is easier to accomplish.

ETA. I like Knox but he is not an OC. Nothing wrong with being a good position coach who can do a lot of other things in a program but OC is not his deal

[ShotgunDawg]

It?s crap shoot either way. Torbush transitioned at UNC from Mack Brown, horrid. Mike Price at Washington St transitioned to Doba good first year then 5, 4, 6, 5 wins the next 4. Rich Brooks to Joker Phillips...really really bad.

Sherrill to Slocum was a good transition.

Oregon has the best run of being able to do this but it?s not always easy and they had a long time of building to get there. If the right guy IS on staff, then great. It is an easy move but it still has to be a good fit. I think with stable programs that have a great foundation, it is easier to accomplish.

ETA. I like Knox but he is not an OC. Nothing wrong with being a good position coach who can do a lot of other things in a program but OC is not his deal

It is a crap shoot but promoting from within appears to offer you your only real chance.

[Tbonewannabe]

It?s crap shoot either way. Torbush transitioned at UNC from Mack Brown, horrid. Mike Price at Washington St transitioned to Doba good first year then 5, 4, 6, 5 wins the next 4. Rich Brooks to Joker Phillips...really really bad.

Sherrill to Slocum was a good transition.

Oregon has the best run of being able to do this but it?s not always easy and they had a long time of building to get there. If the right guy IS on staff, then great. It is an easy move but it still has to be a good fit. I think with stable programs that have a great foundation, it is easier to accomplish.

ETA. I like Knox but he is not an OC. Nothing wrong with being a good position coach who can do a lot of other things in a program but OC is not his deal

On this, wasn't Brett Elliot the one that actually ran the offense in the Gator Bowl? I am not sure how much Knox had to do with the OC job.

[Really Clark?]

On this, wasn't Brett Elliot the one that actually ran the offense in the Gator Bowl? I am not sure how much Knox had to do with the OC job.

Yes, Elliot handled the play calling. Did a good job for the bowl game.

[bluelightstar]

If we had a do-over, we should have hired an established FBS head coach (not necessarily P5). Why did we give an outside-the-program coordinator the keys to an already-established program?

[ShotgunDawg]

If we had a do-over, we should have hired an established FBS head coach (not necessarily P5). Why did we give an outside-the-program coordinator the keys to an already-established program?

Maybe. I'd just ask why give any outsider the keys to an established program?

[shoeless joe]

Nod doubt we brought in a guy with a totally different mentality when our mentality didn’t need changing.

[Really Clark?]

It is a crap shoot but promoting from within appears to offer you your only real chance.

Not really. Look at the programs you listed Oklahoma, Ohio St, LSU, Nebraska are or were really stable high level programs. Until we continue for another 10 year’s of adding to the foundation, then any direction we go is a crap shoot. And too be honest Solich did well but was fired after 6 years. That’s a tough one as he was a notch below Osborn but you also have to question if Nebraska over played their hand with that firing. New AD wanted to change so that one is kind of borderline. However the results since suggest they made the wrong call.

[Maroonthirteen]

First.... I don’t buy the players feeling jilted or abandoned. They may not like the next coach but there isn’t any separation anxiety going.

Sure give Grantham consideration if the applicant pool is light. We would have a damn fine defense and if he could find a decent OC..... that would be a good fit for MSU. However if we had 2018 to do over, I’m not sure grantham could have done much more with the defense. You can’t go up any higher than #1. Again, for a slam dunk do over involving Grantham, I’d have to know who his OC would have been.

One of the big reasons Mullen is so successful is that he has kept the “country club” boys together.

[shoeless joe]

First.... I don’t buy the players feeling jilted or abandoned. They may not like the next coach but there isn’t any separation anxiety going.

Sure give Grantham consideration if the applicant pool is light. We would have a damn fine defense and if he could find a decent OC..... that would be a good fit for MSU. However if we had 2018 to do over, I’m not sure grantham could have done much more with the defense. You can’t go up any higher than #1. Again, for a slam dunk do over involving Grantham, I’d have to know who his OC would have been.

One of the big reasons Mullen is so successful is that he has kept the “country club” boys together.

I’m telling you Croom could have done more for the offense than what jomo did last yr. the utter and absolute failure that last season turned into can not be overstated in any way shape or form. Jomo worked very hard a ruining what could have been...

[Cooterpoot]

GA didn’t even want Grantham. Some guys are simply assistants. Only way I’d touch him is if everybody said no. And it would have to be a lot of NOs before we got to him.
And I like him. Just not as HC.

[ScoobaDawg]

That's why you'd have to interview Grantham first. On paper this is an incredible fit for us.

Cohen would have to humble himself though because we'd be more medieval than progressive.

Grantham is our Orgeron with actual coordinator experience


Are you forgetting about Orgeron's HC experience? Even if he sucked at it.. he had been one. Do you want Grantham to be Orgeron v1.0 (aka Mississippi)?

[Coursesuper]

If were talking do overs can we go back to the second week of October 2016? That's were I'd like to start.

[ShotgunDawg]

If were talking do overs can we go back to the second week of October 2016? That's were I'd like to start.

?

[Coursesuper]

?

Use your head just a little and you can figure it out.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Use your head just a little and you can figure it out.

Yea I can't figure this out either. What does the loss at BYU have to do with anything?

[Coursesuper]

Yea I can't figure this out either. What does the loss at BYU have to do with anything?

What else happened that week?

[ShotgunDawg]

What else happened that week?

Hmmm. Ugh. I give up

[Coursesuper]

Hmmm. Ugh. I give up

On or about that week is when the leak about Cohen to AD hit.

[ShotgunDawg]

On or about that week is when the leak about Cohen to AD hit.

Ahhh. Gotcha. That may or may not have made any difference. No way to know

[StarkVegasSteve]

On or about that week is when the leak about Cohen to AD hit.

Ahh. I do remember that now. And we came out and vehemently denied it, only to hire him three weeks later.

[smootness]

We'd be the most physical team in college football with a spread option scheme.

We'd also keep our recruiting class.

Grantham/Hud 2020!!!!

There's very little risk here.

There is a TON of risk there. Grantham would be a gigantic risk.

[Ezsoil]

Moorhead has to be fired because he's not the guy, but I also think he took over an impossible situation.

Historically, it's difficult to find examples of outside hires taking over ascending power 5 programs that lost their coach and ended up being successful. It was a unique situation because the players in that situation are basically jilted lovers that feel abandoned. That circumstance makes it almost impossible for the new coach to get buy in unless he's either a better coach than the guy who left or he is an internal promotion and thus had already established a relationship of respect with the players prior and is thus trusted.

The most successful changes are basically transitions to an assistant coach:

Stoops - Riley
Urban - Day
Miles - Orgeron
Osbourn - Solich

Richt - Smart, Bowden - Jimbo, and Chizik - Malzahn were all successful as well but those guys were taking over declining or stagnant programs.

Therefore, it's my opinion that the best route MSU could've taken after the departure of Mullen would've been to hire Grantham as head coach and retain Greg Knox as OC.

I realize that isn't sexy but it would've been our best option. That move would've maintained the culture of the program and created a seamless transition in which the players already respected the coaches and buy in would've been easy.

I'm not sure what type of ceiling that tandem would've had, but we'd be better off today.

Moorhead was put in a difficult social and psychology spot and I think internally promoting would've been the correct option based on historical precedent. It would've allowed us to avoid many of the issues Moorhead has had.


Todd Grantham does not want to be a head coach....

[Really Clark?]

Todd Grantham does not want to be a head coach....

He actively pursued our job and interviewed. He went after the Michigan St job years ago when Dantonio got it

[Ari Gold]

Todd Grantham does not want to be a head coach....

So Grantham doesn’t want to be the HC of a SEC program. ?
Ok ..

[KB21]

I don’t know if you listen to Mike Lombardi on the GM Shuffle or not, but he has a saying when talking about coaching hires. Coaches are elected, not selected. What he means by that is that a lot of coaches that end up getting hired to be head coaches do so because as assistants, they were buddies with the players so that when the time came, the players wouldn’t say anything bad about them. Hence the term elected and not selected.

Todd Grantham is 53 or so. He has never been a head coach, but he has also never been a coach that minced his words. His coaching ability isn’t the reason he has been passed over to this point. There are a lot of ADs that don’t want to hear the truth.

Grantham may be the type of coach this program needs right now after two years of Moorhead. He’s been around the block, so he has a lot of coaching connections that could net a strong staff.

[Five-tool Poster]

A dream do-over begins and ends with hiring Scott Satterfield two years ago.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don’t know if you listen to Mike Lombardi on the GM Shuffle or not, but he has a saying when talking about coaching hires. Coaches are elected, not selected. What he means by that is that a lot of coaches that end up getting hired to be head coaches do so because as assistants, they were buddies with the players so that when the time came, the players wouldn’t say anything bad about them. Hence the term elected and not selected.

Todd Grantham is 53 or so. He has never been a head coach, but he has also never been a coach that minced his words. His coaching ability isn’t the reason he has been passed over to this point. There are a lot of ADs that don’t want to hear the truth.

Grantham may be the type of coach this program needs right now after two years of Moorhead. He’s been around the block, so he has a lot of coaching connections that could net a strong staff.

I'll say this in regards to Grantham. HE WANTS TO BE HERE. His son is about to be playing baseball for us and I'm certain that he wants to be at every game he can. His motivation to bring a winner to Starkville will be a little higher than some candidates. I'm not saying give the guy the job because his son will be playing here, but if he's a top candidate knowing that he wants to be here is always a good assurance.

[TrapGame]

He actively pursued our job and interviewed. He went after the Michigan St job years ago when Dantonio got it

Yep, he did. And one thing is certain, toughness would not have been an issue with this team if he were the head coach.

[Really Clark?]

Yep, he did. And one thing is certain, toughness would not have been an issue with this team if he were the head coach.

True. And not that I’m pushing for him but lot a people have pushed forth Saban guys but Grantham also is a Saban guy at Michigan St and credits a lot of his philosophy, work ethic, etc. to Saban

[R2Dawg]

Agree with all.

Mullen's biggest failure at MSU was his inability to develop a replacement. Pretty pathetic after 9 years.

Grantham would be risky now because he may create other issues, BUT he gained the respect of the team while he was here and would thus fix about 90% of our current problems in about a month after taking over.

I'd interview him if I were Cohen and see what his offensive plans would be.

Not sure Grantham would even interview. From his end, you had the chance to hire me and you passed. I'm settled now and don't want to move. He may not take that view but he might. I would ask but will Cohen? Cohen would have to swallow his pride.

[ShotgunDawg]

Not sure Grantham would even interview. From his end, you had the chance to hire me and you passed.

Are you stupid?

Because that's one of he dumbest things I've ever read

[R2Dawg]

There is a TON of risk there. Grantham would be a gigantic risk.

Our next hire has a ton a risk no matter who it is. Same situation as when we hired Mullen and JWS after bad coaching hires both times we hit a HR. Can we do it again?

[R2Dawg]

Are you stupid?

Because that's one of he dumbest things I've ever read

Are you stupid? Have you personally talked to Grantham about this? These coaches, ADs have egos larger than yours is. If you can't see that, I can't help you. No reason for insults.

I'm not saying he wouldn't come, I also said we should ask as I like Grantham.

[basedog]

Just like any other hire who hasn't been a HC, Grantham would be a gamble like all others but his advantage is he has coached at Msu and at several other Sec schools. I have no clue like the rest of y'all IF he would be a good choice but I do think he would be better than Joe/Croom and mostly all other Coaches who are our famous "Coaches Graveyard". I bet some on here have not a clue about the graveyard and maybe not about the "Indian Graveyard".

I also like Grantham.

[Todd4State]

If we had a do over we should have looked more at coaches with experience at G5 and maybe even P5 conferences in addition to coordinators.

There is zero reason to limit a search if you are Mississippi State.

That would be like a hospital only hiring Doctors who are just coming off of their residency only. Imagine the risk there in terms of not getting the best. It would be hit or miss. It’s the same with only hiring coordinators.

[msbulldog]

I'd offer Grantham.

[ShotgunDawg]

Are you stupid? Have you personally talked to Grantham about this? These coaches, ADs have egos larger than yours is. If you can't see that, I can't help you. No reason for insults.

I'm not saying he wouldn't come, I also said we should ask as I like Grantham.

Sorry. I insult brainless comments that belittle our program.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'd offer Grantham.

I'd interview him.

I don't know enough about his offensive or program plans to offer him.

[R2Dawg]

Sorry. I insult brainless comments that belittle our program.

Nothing about what I said belittled our program, school or otherwise. Me and my family now have Bulldogs degrees over the past 60 years - 3 generations and counting. I assure you I am as maroon as you have ever been.

As far as brainless, you have shown what you are made of in just a few posts. I don't have to belittle other posters to make myself feel worthy.

Show us all your intellect by explaining how what I said belittled our program?

[ShotgunDawg]

Nothing about what I said belittled our program, school or otherwise. Me and my family now have Bulldogs degrees over the past 60 years - 3 generations and counting. I assure you I am as maroon as you have ever been.

As far as brainless, you have shown what you are made of in just a few posts. I don't have to belittle other posters to make myself feel worthy.

Show us all your intellect by explaining how what I said belittled our program?

Because you made a comment that a DC with a son on the baseball team, wouldn't want our, an SEC head coaching job. That's ridiculously dumb.

[basedog]

Shotgun, learn to let things go, the bashing from all of us on ED is and has gone out of site and out of mind! Hey I'm guilty sometimes, but ED is and has gotten bad. Use to be a great place to get info, not any longer especially when I read where a few posters want us to lose because they hate Joe.

I've already told most of my family peeps when my grandson signs with Msu baseball in a few weeks, don't read ED. Just so negative now days.

[Percho]

Moorhead has to be fired because he's not the guy, but I also think he took over an impossible situation.

Historically, it's difficult to find examples of outside hires taking over ascending power 5 programs that lost their coach and ended up being successful. It was a unique situation because the players in that situation are basically jilted lovers that feel abandoned. That circumstance makes it almost impossible for the new coach to get buy in unless he's either a better coach than the guy who left or he is an internal promotion and thus had already established a relationship of respect with the players prior and is thus trusted.

The most successful changes are basically transitions to an assistant coach:

Stoops - Riley
Urban - Day
Miles - Orgeron
Osbourn - Solich

Richt - Smart, Bowden - Jimbo, and Chizik - Malzahn were all successful as well but those guys were taking over declining or stagnant programs.

Therefore, it's my opinion that the best route MSU could've taken after the departure of Mullen would've been to hire Grantham as head coach and retain Greg Knox as OC.

I realize that isn't sexy but it would've been our best option. That move would've maintained the culture of the program and created a seamless transition in which the players already respected the coaches and buy in would've been easy.

I'm not sure what type of ceiling that tandem would've had, but we'd be better off today.

Moorhead was put in a difficult social and psychology spot and I think internally promoting would've been the correct option based on historical precedent. It would've allowed us to avoid many of the issues Moorhead has had.

How are you going to feel when the powers that be decide that Moorhead is the guy and do not fire him?

Then he goes on to be successful.

[ShotgunDawg]

How are you going to feel when the powers that be decide that Moorhead is the guy and do not fire him?

Then he goes on to be successful.

I'll say I was wrong.

[Cary Hudson's little bro]

This entire thread is clueless...JoeMo may not be the guy but his resume is exactly what our program needs. we can't do better.

WE'RE AN SEC WEST TEAM.

Grantham HC with Knox OC - yeah lets hire two guys who have never done either role to lead an SEC West program. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[R2Dawg]

Because you made a comment that a DC with a son on the baseball team, wouldn't want our, an SEC head coaching job. That's ridiculously dumb.

I did not say one word of that, I gave two scenarios - one reason he might not and another where he could. I?ll give you another one, His son may not want him here. Most 20 yr olds don?t want their parents going to college with him.

I also said he may come, and I would ask.

Need to check your reading comprehension before you mouth off bunch of BS.

[Dawgfan77]

Should we let joevester go or he leaves we cannot afford to hire a career assistant like Grathsm. We HAVE to hire and HC. To much is riding on this hire to go after another DC or OC. Worst case and I do mean worst case hire Hud. But kick the tiers on Norvell Napier Elliot and Clark first.