John Cohen- recruiting

[MsStateBaseball]

Cohen is in Jupiter Fl for huge PG tournament. A few of our commits are there too. This is where we have to go to get the elite players. Signing day coming up in a few days.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Does anyone on this board have a PG subscription? If so, could they post/PM me a rundown of what Cohen said in his interview with Kendall Rogers?

Thanks.

[bully99]

Kendall Rogers tweeted Cohen said lungren throwing in low 90s. Have to pay to see the rest. Cohen better hope Mingione and Thompson stay at State because they are the successful recruiters.
Cohen is not exactly a warm and fuzzy type of personality. I think if it were upon to Cohen to do the heavy lifting in recruiting we would be in trouble.

[Dannyripms]

Man I'd love to be in Jupiter fl right now. Super nice down there.

[Goat Holder]

Cohen is not exactly a warm and fuzzy type of personality. I think if it were upon to Cohen to do the heavy lifting in recruiting we would be in trouble.

100% bullshit. Cohen is a fantastic recruiter.

[Will James]

100% bullshit. Cohen is a fantastic recruiter.

Agreed

[bully99]

Stand by what I said.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Kendall Rogers tweeted Cohen said lungren throwing in low 90s. Have to pay to see the rest. Cohen better hope Mingione and Thompson stay at State because they are the successful recruiters.
Cohen is not exactly a warm and fuzzy type of personality. I think if it were upon to Cohen to do the heavy lifting in recruiting we would be in trouble.

Mingione and Thompson do most of the heavy lifting, but Cohen knows how to get ball players too. He didn't sign top classes at Kentucky by being a bad recruiter. I'm honestly surprised that this idea of Cohen being an asshole is still accepted by some of our fans. He was tough when he got here because he had to be. Cohen inherited a bunch of players who A) were pansies, and B) told by Polk not to respect him.

Now that he has all his players, Cohen has loosened up quite a bit because he finally trusts the personalities on the team. The players we have now don't need to be pushed by the coaches, because they already push each other to get better. That's the kind of environment you want.

[AlSwearengen]

Kendall Rogers tweeted Cohen said lungren throwing in low 90s. Have to pay to see the rest. Cohen better hope Mingione and Thompson stay at State because they are the successful recruiters.
Cohen is not exactly a warm and fuzzy type of personality. I think if it were upon to Cohen to do the heavy lifting in recruiting we would be in trouble.


Dear God. I think i am going to start giving my opinion on brain surgery since I have zero knowledge on the subject. It is apparently what MSU fans do.

[Original48]

Cohen is not exactly a warm and fuzzy type of personality. I think if it were upon to Cohen to do the heavy lifting in recruiting we would be in trouble.
Holy smokes is the Ron Polk/Tommy Raffo train still in town?? We can hate on the 'fire Mullen' crowd all we want to (of which I disagree) but comments like THIS is why we are the dumbest fan base in America. I seriously can't believe you just wrote that. This is one of the times that monikers on message boards are better than having to put your real name to it. Some people need protection from themselves.

[Coach34]

Mingione.

The guy 80% of SPS wanted fired just 2 short years ago because he brought nothing to the table supposedly?

[engie]

Holy smokes is the Ron Polk/Tommy Raffo train still in town?? We can hate on the 'fire Mullen' crowd all we want to (of which I disagree) but comments like THIS is why we are the dumbest fan base in America. I seriously can't believe you just wrote that. This is one of the times that monikers on message boards are better than having to put your real name to it. Some people need protection from themselves.

Nailed it.

[bully99]

Never said Cohen was an A-hole. But he doesn't have a touchy feely type of personality, just like Mullen doesn't either. I'm as big a fan of the progam as anybody but Cohen does have an abrasive attitude. Just ask people. Doesn't mean he can't be and is successful. He has gotten better in the last couple of years but he had no choice.

[Goat Holder]

I happen to think Mullen has done an OK job recruiting at MSU himself. Seems like our boosters are the ones ****ing stuff up, if you ask me. And more on Cohen, the guy has been a lights out recruiter everywhere he's been. Just give that up, you're dead wrong. He elevates all of those around him, and breeds more success with the people he leaves.

A level of abrasiveness is absolutely necessary at MSU.

[hacker]

Dear God. I think i am going to start giving my opinion on brain surgery since I have zero knowledge on the subject. It is apparently what MSU fans do.

well put

ETA: wrong word

[MsStateBaseball]

Cohen for the most part is the closer. He stays at home. When they visit he gets them. Pretty darn good so far. BTW, we are still a baseball school. Please no football talk w baseball. Two totally different sports.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Never said Cohen was an A-hole. But he doesn't have a touchy feely type of personality, just like Mullen doesn't either. I'm as big a fan of the progam as anybody but Cohen does have an abrasive attitude. Just ask people. Doesn't mean he can't be and is successful. He has gotten better in the last couple of years but he had no choice.

I know you didn't say Cohen was asshole. You did say that his personality keeps him from being a good recruiter, which is ridiculous. Is Saban a "Warm and fuzzy" kind of guy? No, but he does okay on signing day.

I wasn't even specifically talking about you anyway, but there are still some people who feel like Cohen is a jerk. Now that talk died down after the Omaha run this year, but up until recently, some people still couldn't accept that Cohen was tough on players early in his tenure because he had to be. If Cohen had it his way, the coaches wouldn't have had to push the players to work hard because the players would already be pushing each other, which is exactly what we have now.

[engie]

Never said Cohen was an A-hole. But he doesn't have a touchy feely type of personality, just like Mullen doesn't either. I'm as big a fan of the progam as anybody but Cohen does have an abrasive attitude. Just ask people. Doesn't mean he can't be and is successful. He has gotten better in the last couple of years but he had no choice.

Just give it up. You made a ridiculous comment -- and quantifying it is just making your entire take more and more ridiculous.

Mingione didn't help recruit a single player on the team that took us to the brink last year, which was recruited by Lane Burroughs, John Cohen, and Butch Thompson. Cohen put together a #4 national recruiting class AT KENTUCKY without a single member of our current staff. At some point -- when you've had TWELVE top 25 classes in a row at 3 different schools with no staff connections between the 3 -- you admit that the guy is not an "ok" recruiter. He's one of the best in all of college baseball actually.

[bully99]

Not giving up anything. I should have included Lane Burroughs in the recruiting success.

[Jacksondevildog]

Wasn't Mingione with Cohen at Kentucky?

[engie]

Wasn't Mingione with Cohen at Kentucky?

3 coaches can leave campus to recruit in any way. He was never one of the 3. So, no, not really. He was a volunteer assistant -- exactly like he was here for the first 4 years.

[engie]

Not giving up anything. I should have included Lane Burroughs in the recruiting success.

Yet you haven't even began to explain Kentucky, which had never, in history, had a top 25 class prior to his arrival. His last two classes there? #4 and #6.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Not giving up anything. I should have included Lane Burroughs in the recruiting success.

So you honestly don't think Cohen could recruit without Mingione and Butch? Even though he's done it extremely well everywhere he's been, including Kentucky? I admit that Butch Thompson's coaching would be tough to replace, but history tells us time and time again that Cohen will get good players to come here no matter who the assistants are.

[Bark]

Never said Cohen was an A-hole. But he doesn't have a touchy feely type of personality, just like Mullen doesn't either. I'm as big a fan of the progam as anybody but Cohen does have an abrasive attitude. Just ask people. Doesn't mean he can't be and is successful. He has gotten better in the last couple of years but he had no choice.

You sir, have no clue what the hell you are talking about. So are you saying that Richard Simmons would be a great recruiter...touchy and feely enough for you?

[bully99]

Get a clue, pal.

[Bark]

Get a clue, pal.

Me? Are you serious?

[K9 Avenger]

Stand by what I said.

You can stand by it all you want but it doesn't make you right....You've clearly never been around John.

[hacker]

I love it when people are so self-important that they can't even admit when they're wrong on a messageboard

[CadaverDawg]

Kendall Rogers tweeted Cohen said lungren throwing in low 90s. Have to pay to see the rest. Cohen better hope Mingione and Thompson stay at State because they are the successful recruiters.
Cohen is not exactly a warm and fuzzy type of personality. I think if it were upon to Cohen to do the heavy lifting in recruiting we would be in trouble.

Been away from the board a little while and return to this^? Good Lord have mercy. Terrible, just terrible. I couldn't even read beyond it without posting first...but I'm sure you are getting railed for it. Can't wait to read everyone else's comments. [pops popcorn]

[engie]

Coaches gotta be "warm and fuzzy" to 'croot! WEW -- #1 crootin class on the way now that John learned this lesson!

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131028-7dpn-53kb.jpg

[Homedawg]

Yet you haven't even began to explain Kentucky, which had never, in history, had a top 25 class prior to his arrival. His last two classes there? #4 and #6.

How about he was the lead recruiter at Florida. Did a pretty good job there too!

[Corey♥DemDawgs]

Mingione and Thompson do most of the heavy lifting, but Cohen knows how to get ball players too. He didn't sign top classes at Kentucky by being a bad recruiter. I'm honestly surprised that this idea of Cohen being an asshole is still accepted by some of our fans. He was tough when he got here because he had to be. Cohen inherited a bunch of players who A) were pansies, and B) told by Polk not to respect him.

Now that he has all his players, Cohen has loosened up quite a bit because he finally trusts the personalities on the team. The players we have now don't need to be pushed by the coaches, because they already push each other to get better. That's the kind of environment you want.

Great post!

[Corey♥DemDawgs]

Cohen & staff are whipping it in recruiting, pretty damn impressive to witness.

[MarketingBully01]

Cohen is a winner knows good talent and finds great talented assistant coaches to continue the success. He is about as close to a Saban type of coach we will get here at MSU. He is probably the top or at least tied with the top college baseball coaches in the game right now. If either of our assistant coaches leave it will be for a head coaching gig. I have confidence that just like Saban he will plug a great assistant coach to replace the other one we lost. We will be fine.

[Todd4State]

Remember me telling SPS that Cohen's personality would attract competitive players but not be appealing to players who want things promised and guaranteed like playing time?

Well, look at our team now. And I'll say this from watching and being around pro players- you win with competitive players. About 95% of the players you watch on TV are hypercompetitive people. That's the ONLY way to get that far- or be a freak athlete like Bo Jackson. And that's the other 5%- freaks.

Cohen is very energetic and passionate. And other teams HATE that. It forces them to raise their bar and push their limits. Polk doesn't like personalities like that- and I'm sure it kills him to see someone with that style doing what he is at "his" program.

A lot of the "Cohen is mean" stuff is coming from our competitors- namely Ole Miss if you want to know the truth. None of our recruits ever run across Ron Polk anyway.

Now for clarity Polk did and still does badmouth Cohen. But what Polk says has more of an effect on alumni rather than recruits.

[Todd4State]

One other thing about Polk- I don't have a problem with Polk's philosophy. It has it's place. But that place isn't the SEC. That place is Mississippi College.

[bully99]

Todd, that's a bunch of crap. The notion that Polk had a bunch of wimps is laughable. I don't know how long you go back but Polk had some of the fiercest players in the game who would just as well spit at you as to look at you. Jack Lazorko, Steve Susce, Will Clark, Jeff Brantley, Dan van Cleve, Dave Klipstein, Mark Gillaspie, to name just a few. To say a man who took three schools to the cws and accomplished what he did should be at MC is embarrassing. I thought you had a little more credibility than that. Polks problem when he quit the first time in the early 90's to fight the NCAA, I think he lost his enthusiasm and desire. I don't think he ever got his love of the game back. He should have stepped away then.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Any bitching about Cohen's recruiting is ridiculous.

[Todd4State]

I'm not saying that all of Polk's players were wimps. I'm saying that the ones he brought in at the end of his tenure had a different personality towards baseball.

You can question my credibility- but the results on the field are in line with what I am saying- and again bear in mind I said those things before 2011.

1985 Ron Polk belonged in the SEC. 2008 Ron Polk belonged at MC. People change over time. There's no shame in that.

[Maroons]

Todd, that's a bunch of crap. The notion that Polk had a bunch of wimps is laughable. I don't know how long you go back but Polk had some of the fiercest players in the game who would just as well spit at you as to look at you. Jack Lazorko, Steve Susce, Will Clark, Jeff Brantley, Dan van Cleve, Dave Klipstein, Mark Gillaspie, to name just a few.

I'm 34 years old and I can't remember watching any of those guys at State. You're making his point.

[Homedawg]

Coach Polk wasn't a ra-ra guy. He didn't want his players to be like that. He wasn't a "top step" coach. He said it often. He preferred his players be like him. It wasn't that he didn't like competitors, he did. But he just liked em even keel if he got his preference. John is more fiery and doesnt mind if his guys are and he definetly isnt going to allow them to sit on their hands in the dugout. I think Todd was saying this to a degree.

[Todd4State]

Also- every single player you mentioned was from 1985 or earlier. That's not relevant to Cohen at all. Heck, we had Pat McMahon as a coach thrown in there as well.

Polk told my Dad that if he couldn't win a NC with Clark and Palmeiro he wasn't ever going to win one at MSU. So, he started to quit before 1991. We kept begging him to come back because of 1979-1990. Have one good season and you are set for life at MSU in any sport it appears.

[Goat Holder]

Todd, that's a bunch of crap. The notion that Polk had a bunch of wimps is laughable. I don't know how long you go back but Polk had some of the fiercest players in the game who would just as well spit at you as to look at you. Jack Lazorko, Steve Susce, Will Clark, Jeff Brantley, Dan van Cleve, Dave Klipstein, Mark Gillaspie, to name just a few. To say a man who took three schools to the cws and accomplished what he did should be at MC is embarrassing. I thought you had a little more credibility than that.

I figured that went without saying. I think we all pretty much infer that when we discuss Polk vs. Cohen, we're talking about Polk II, not his entire coaching portfolio. Of course Polk I was a great and legendary coach. He built our program. No one will ever dispute that. That's why all of us true MSU baseball fans really wish Polk would get over his bitterness and come back and be a part of MSU in some regard.


Polks problem when he quit the first time in the early 90's to fight the NCAA, I think he lost his enthusiasm and desire. I don't think he ever got his love of the game back. He should have stepped away then.

This is the first accurate thing you've posted in this entire thread.

One thing you've successfully done is unveiled yourself as the true Polk disciple that you are. But I really believed that last year finally convinced all of you that you were wrong on Cohen, and that you were wrong in thinking that only Ron Polk could ever be successful with MSU baseball. I mean, isn't it time to give it up? Cohen just showed up Polk last spring. And when we build a new stadium, assuming the events of today continue into tomorrow, Polk will only be remembered as a successful coach at MSU, not the guy who built the program. And he's got no one to blame for that but the guy in the mirror.

[Homedawg]

Also- every single player you mentioned was from 1985 or earlier. That's not relevant to Cohen at all. Heck, we had Pat McMahon as a coach thrown in there as well.

Polk told my Dad that if he couldn't win a NC with Clark and Palmeiro he wasn't ever going to win one at MSU. So, he started to quit before 1991. We kept begging him to come back because of 1979-1990. Have one good season and you are set for life at MSU in any sport it appears.

To be fair, in 91 he was coming off world series team in 90 and two years removed from the greatest offense in our history. So there was a legitimate reason to want him to stay at that point.

[SheltonChoked]

Yeah Polk really could recruit. Too bad every one of those players played before any of the current players were born.

I'm not speaking for Todd, but I think he means Polk's philosophy now fits MC better thanan SEC school. Not Polk's Philosophy in 1989 (although history shows us that Polk's Philosphy was not as good as a more agressive one, i.e. Skip at LSU).

[Todd4State]

That is a good point Homedawg. And Miami wanted Polk to replace Ron Fraser- which was where Polk was going at the time.

But while it's understandable that we would want to keep Polk at the time, I am of the opinion that if a coach wants to leave, you're better off just letting them do so.

I think us constantly begging Polk to stay contributed to his attitude.

[engie]

To be fair, in 91 he was coming off world series team in 90 and two years removed from the greatest offense in our history. So there was a legitimate reason to want him to stay at that point.

True. I don't think anyone is arguing that. Just that hindsight tells us that the golden age of MSU baseball ended in 1991...when he went to war with the NCAA and put it on cruise control.

The tremendous 94 class saved his legacy to a large extent in 97 and caused that entire era to be "Polk 1" -- IMO Polk 1 should have ended in 1990 on the field in Rosenblatt. If you consider 91-97 a second era, and 03-08 is the third era, it shows just how long we were accepting of a level of mediocrity that Cohen is starting to prove sickening(Pat McMahon also to an extent)...

[Homedawg]

True. I don't think anyone is arguing that. Just that hindsight tells us that the golden age of MSU baseball ended in 1991...when he went to war with the NCAA and put it on cruise control.

The tremendous 94 class saved his legacy to a large extent in 97 and caused that entire era to be "Polk 1" -- IMO Polk 1 should have ended in 1990 on the field in Rosenblatt. If you consider 91-97 a second era, and 03-08 is the third era, it shows just how long we were accepting of a level of mediocrity that Cohen is starting to prove sickening(Pat McMahon also to an extent)...

I agree the class of 94 was huge, thanks to Steve smith. He busted his butt on that class. As for Polk 3, as you called it, It was derailed for many reasons, the main being RP sitting around bitching about the hope and similar scholarships. Instead of figuring out a way to get it done w what you have.....and to further agree w you, Mac didn't exactly beat the doors down w quality players either. He was too caught up in RP being there in his shadow. Bad excuse, but true none the less.

[Todd4State]

I am talking about Polk's philosophy of everyone having a good college baseball experience. Polk was more about teaching than winning at the end of his tenure.

My opinion on why we didn't win a NC with Polk would probably surprise a lot of people. We lacked the pitching depth to win in Omaha. Good enough pitching to get us to Omaha- but not quite good enough to get us through.

The other issue is Polk recruited teams in 4 year cycles. What I mean is we would be young one year, but three years later we would go to Omaha. The problem with that is by the time those players got there, they would have zero experience in Omaha. If you look at the teams that win the NC, they are usually teams that have been to Omaha before with many of the same players. Experience is one of the biggest advantages a team can have in the postseason.

[engie]

I agree the class of 94 was huge, thanks to Steve smith. He busted his butt on that class. As for Polk 3, as you called it, It was derailed for many reasons, the main being RP sitting around bitching about the hope and similar scholarships. Instead of figuring out a way to get it done w what you have.....and to further agree w you, Mac didn't exactly beat the doors down w quality players either. He was too caught up in RP being there in his shadow. Bad excuse, but true none the less.

You are 100% correct...

One day, I'm going to tell detailed stories about Polk 2 recruiting -- Got alot of perspective from late 02-04. I guess the only reason I haven't already told some of it is that it makes it elementary to figure out who I actually am -- and some of the crap coach and others has dealt with in their personal lives over a message board persona makes it a place I don't want to go as long as I'm still stirring pots on message boards.

Already told Todd and a few others a good bit of the details about it...And it's totally sickening the extent that he had quit in actuality -- to the point that it was sabotaging guys that wanted to come here -- and that we had room for.

[Ronny]

..went into the state of Alabama & in that state alone recruited some of the best pitching talent in the nation.

If not for Alabama players on our roster we would have not gotten any where near playing UCLA for the NC.

Imagine Mullen going into the state of Georgia & recuiting so much of their elite football talent that MSU is a top 5 team.

This is in essence what Cohen did with Alabama.

So for all you claiming Cohen can't recruit, you are full of a tremendous amount of bullshit.

[AlSwearengen]

I am talking about Polk's philosophy of everyone having a good college baseball experience. Polk was more about teaching than winning at the end of his tenure.

My opinion on why we didn't win a NC with Polk would probably surprise a lot of people. We lacked the pitching depth to win in Omaha. Good enough pitching to get us to Omaha- but not quite good enough to get us through.

The other issue is Polk recruited teams in 4 year cycles. What I mean is we would be young one year, but three years later we would go to Omaha. The problem with that is by the time those players got there, they would have zero experience in Omaha. If you look at the teams that win the NC, they are usually teams that have been to Omaha before with many of the same players. Experience is one of the biggest advantages a team can have in the postseason.


I agree with all of this and would like to add that Polk's teams never had the ability to bunt and it cost us countless times. Polk's teams typically had two really good starters and a really good closer which was adequate for an SEC weekend back in those days. Polk always talked about the big inning, but once you get to the post season you are facing top notch pitching and we all know what that does to good hitting. Even in Polk's better days, his approach bothered me.

[bully99]

I'm not a Polk disciple. I've been as critical of Polk over time as anyone. You're right about pitching depth. Polk always had a shortage of arms even though he had 4 first round pitchers drafted in the 90s and a second rounder. In 1983 at the Texas regional we won the first three games and needed to beat Texas one out of two . Texas swept a doubleheader to advance to Omaha pitppching Calvin Schiraldi and Roger Clemons. We had no chance. 1985 Jeff Brantley started about 25 games because he and Gene Morgan were about the only pitchers Polk trusted. Polk's heart was never in it after he quit the first time.