This is why I think Joe is in way over his head (Link)

[TrapGame]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mississippi-state-coach-joe-moorhead-emerging-as-top-candidate-for-rutgers-job-a-report-says/


"Coaching in the SEC for about a year-and-a-half now in a lot of ways has been a humbling experience," Moorhead said. "I don't think you get to this point where I am without a certain level of success, and of confidence, but this game and the SEC, it has a way of keeping you honest."

This is the quote of a man who knows he is in way over his head in the SEC. He was not ready for this step. He's a good man and a decent coach but he has bitten off more than he can chew.

[DownwardDawg]

You know, he could still turn things around. Don’t get me wrong, I would have canned him Sunday morning and named an interim, and threw money at a few head coaches but I digress.
Look at Coach O. He was one of the worst coaches in SEC history. He has realized now that he needs to run a system that fits his players and let his coordinators do the coaching.

[Churchill]

I'm not articulate enough to express this well but I think there is also a cultural shock of some sort in play here. I.E. not all Yankees adjust well to being here just like most of us bubbas would struggle where Joe came from. I know nothing about his family but I could see how they could be "uncomfortable" here also AND that doesn't say anything negative about anybody involved IMO. I just think he's a bad fit in too many ways to over come.

[Churchill]

You know, he could still turn things around. Don?t get me wrong, I would have canned him Sunday morning and named an interim, and threw money at a few head coaches but I digress.
Look at Coach O. He was one of the worst coaches in SEC history. He has realized now that he needs to run a system that fits his players and let his coordinators do the coaching.

But O at LSU is like a pig in a mud puddle (made for each other)...not so with Joe at State

[Dawgology]

He would excel if he would go ahead and hire a really good OC and get some hard nosed enforcers on the staff that are just some tough SOB’s to instill discipline. He also really needs to hire an experienced S&C coach.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Why do you say that? If anything Joe is a lot like MSU Alum. Blue collar family, college educated, wasn't raised with a silver spoon and ascot.
Maybe he doesn't need to adjust his coaching mentality, just his coaching focus. Instead of running a damn complex system, he may need to focus on effort and execution.

[StarkVegasSteve]

But O at LSU is like a pig in a mud puddle (made for each other)...not so with Joe at State

This. They're willing to give O time because he's one of their own. That's why they were always so impatient with Miles. Because at the end of the day he was an offensive lineman from Michigan and Ed is a D lineman from Northwestern State.

[Tbonewannabe]

He would excel if he would go ahead and hire a really good OC and get some hard nosed enforcers on the staff that are just some tough SOB’s to instill discipline. He also really needs to hire an experienced S&C coach.

This was probably his worst hire. Most of our players went in the wrong direction from last year.

[dawgday166]

I'm not articulate enough to express this well but I think there is also a cultural shock of some sort in play here. I.E. not all Yankees adjust well to being here just like most of us bubbas would struggle where Joe came from. I know nothing about his family but I could see how they could be "uncomfortable" here also AND that doesn't say anything negative about anybody involved IMO. I just think he's a bad fit in too many ways to over come.


But O at LSU is like a pig in a mud puddle (made for each other)...not so with Joe at State

I think you may be onto something here. Coaching in the SEC is brutal. I don't think Joe is a "brutal" kinda guy.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This was probably his worst hire. Most of our players went in the wrong direction from last year.

We should've just thrown a ton of money at Aaron Feld and asked him to come home. Piroli had our team as strong as I've ever seen a MSU team. Which is partly why Arians hired him as soon as he got the Bucs job.

[dawgday166]

Why do you say that? If anything Joe is a lot like MSU Alum. Blue collar family, college educated, wasn't raised with a silver spoon and ascot.
Maybe he doesn't need to adjust his coaching mentality, just his coaching focus. Instead of running a damn complex system, he may need to focus on effort and execution.

You don't think MSU Alum are blue collar?

[CovertDawg]

Why do you say that? If anything Joe is a lot like MSU Alum. Blue collar family, college educated, wasn't raised with a silver spoon and ascot.
Maybe he doesn't need to adjust his coaching mentality, just his coaching focus. Instead of running a damn complex system, he may need to focus on effort and execution.

This. He is the son of a steel worker from Western PA which is about as blue collar as it gets. It is fair to complain about his coaching or him not being hard enough on the players but that might have more to do with his personality as a people pleaser than anything with his background. A friend of mine is head coach at a Top 10 MS High School program (not an MSU guy) and said Joe is amazing at connecting with all people on campus when visiting.

[RiverCityDawg]

He would excel if he would go ahead and hire a really good OC and get some hard nosed enforcers on the staff that are just some tough SOB’s to instill discipline. He also really needs to hire an experienced S&C coach.

This is saying "he would excel if he didn't have to do any of the things he is currently required to do to excel." I mean, yeah sure maybe, but what is he bringing to the table at that point? Recruiting, famous quotes and cat retweets?

[AROB44]

We should've just thrown a ton of money at Aaron Feld and asked him to come home. Piroli had our team as strong as I've ever seen a MSU team. Which is partly why Arians hired him as soon as he got the Bucs job.

This.....Bama pays their S&C coach $350,000 I believe.

[MetEdDawg]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mississippi-state-coach-joe-moorhead-emerging-as-top-candidate-for-rutgers-job-a-report-says/



This is the quote of a man who knows he is in way over his head in the SEC. He was not ready for this step. He's a good man and a decent coach but he has bitten off more than he can chew.

Admitting this doesn't mean over your head. It means that he doesn't currently possess the knowledge base to understand how to work in the current environment.

Joe understands football. He didn't get to be our head coach by luck. But he is learning that there are aspects of this job that he doesn't understand. Doesn't mean he's over his head. Means he needs new knowledge and needs to undo or unlearn some of what he thought would work.

The question really is can he learn and change enough to fix those knowledge deficiencies. If he can't, which most of our fan base thinks, he has to go. If he can, then we will see change the remainder of this season related to some of the issues we are seeing.

[TrapGame]

Admitting this doesn't mean over your head. It means that he doesn't currently possess the knowledge base to understand how to work in the current environment.

Joe understands football. He didn't get to be our head coach by luck. But he is learning that there are aspects of this job that he doesn't understand. Doesn't mean he's over his head. Means he needs new knowledge and needs to undo or unlearn some of what he thought would work.

The question really is can he learn and change enough to fix those knowledge deficiencies. If he can't, which most of our fan base thinks, he has to go. If he can, then we will see change the remainder of this season related to some of the issues we are seeing.

Sorry Met but that's the definition of being in over your head.

I just don't think Joe was ready for this step yet in his career. He could be another Coach O. Goes to another school as OC, promoted to HC after a few years and then things really click for him at that point. He could theoretically do that here but we are looking at least four years for him to get his sea legs in the SEC, if it happens at all. This team is weak and soft. That is the ONE THING you cannot be in the SEC.

[MetEdDawg]

Sorry Met but that's the definition of being in over your head.

I just don't think Joe was ready for this step yet in his career. He could be another Coach O. Goes to another school as OC, promoted to HC after a few years and then things really click for him at that point. He could theoretically do that here but we are looking at least four years for him to get his sea legs in the SEC, if it happens at all. This team is weak and soft. That is the ONE THING you cannot be in the SEC.

So here's a fun example. I'm a teacher. I'm getting a promotion to become an administrator. I've never been an administrator. I understand education and some of the processes but I've never been an administrator before and I'm going to have to change how I operate and think in order to do my job successfully.

Am I in over my head? Or do I just lack the practical knowledge on how to do the job correctly and need time to adapt my knowledge to fit my new position?

[TrapGame]

So here's a fun example. I'm a teacher. I'm getting a promotion to become an administrator. I've never been an administrator. I understand education and some of the processes but I've never been an administrator before and I'm going to have to change how I operate and think in order to do my job successfully.

Am I in over my head? Or do I just lack the practical knowledge on how to do the job correctly and need time to adapt my knowledge to fit my new position?

How long have you been a teacher? Where have you taught? What is educational background? Do you have a PhD?

If you taught at a prestigious private school for a decade and get an admin job in the inner city having never taught in anything close to an inner city environment much less been in a admin position...yeah, could be in over your head.

Or a sales rep that was with a small company in a small sales region gets the chance to move up to one of the big pharma companies with a massive territory. You're not in Kansas anymore. It's the big leagues and that little company in that tiny territory didn't prepare you for a Fortune 500 company and sales area covering three states...you could be in over your head.

But Joe can prove to me he's not treading water and slowly drowning by turning it around with a 6-6 season, getting tougher with the players and bringing back some of the old S&C atmosphere.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This.....Bama pays their S&C coach $350,000 I believe.

Bama pays Cochran over a 500K

[MetEdDawg]

How long have you been a teacher? Where have you taught? What is educational background? Do you have a PhD?

If you taught at a prestigious private school for a decade and get an admin job in the inner city having never taught in anything close to an inner city environment much less been in a admin position...yeah, could be in over your head.

Or a sales rep that was with a small company in a small sales region gets the chance to move up to one of the big pharma companies with a massive territory. You're not in Kansas anymore. It's the big leagues and that little company in that tiny territory didn't prepare you for a Fortune 500 company and sales area covering three states...you could be in over your head.

But Joe can prove to me he's not treading water and slowly drowning by turning it around with a 6-6 season, getting tougher with the players and bringing back some of the old S&C atmosphere.

Notice how you said could be. It takes time. Moorhead is still figuring it out. I'm not defending him. But I think fans make rash judgments that people or coaches are 100% this or 100% that without understanding context of situations. All the situations you presented have context. Without that you have no basis for judgment.

Moorhead will tell me a lot over the next 6 games. At this current pace he needs to go. But he's still got time to show he's learning and adapting. If he does that we can have some hope that maybe 2020 will look different. If not he needs to go and we can say he was in over his head. I think we have enough data points to know Moorhead has to make changes. But it seems irresponsible to deem him as in over his head 19 games into his job

[TrapGame]

Notice how you said could be. It takes time. Moorhead is still figuring it out. I'm not defending him. But I think fans make rash judgments that people or coaches are 100% this or 100% that without understanding context of situations. All the situations you presented have context. Without that you have no basis for judgment.

Moorhead will tell me a lot over the next 6 games. At this current pace he needs to go. But he's still got time to show he's learning and adapting. If he does that we can have some hope that maybe 2020 will look different. If not he needs to go and we can say he was in over his head. I think we have enough data points to know Moorhead has to make changes. But it seems irresponsible to deem him as in over his head 19 games into his job

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But we will just have to disagree on the in over his head part. I hope he proves everyone wrong but I think the damage has already been done.

[sleepy dawg]

You know, he could still turn things around. Don?t get me wrong, I would have canned him Sunday morning and named an interim, and threw money at a few head coaches but I digress.
Look at Coach O. He was one of the worst coaches in SEC history. He has realized now that he needs to run a system that fits his players and let his coordinators do the coaching.

There was almost 15 years between Orgeron failing as a head coach and succeeding. He didn't figure it out overnight.

[TrapGame]

There was almost 15 years between Orgeron failing as a head coach and succeeding. He didn't figure it out overnight.

Don't you know USC wished they'd kept him. He had them rolling as interim HC.

[R2Dawg]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But we will just have to disagree on the in over his head part. I hope he proves everyone wrong but I think the damage has already been done.

It has been my experience in my career, everytime someone takes a promotion (no matter how qualified their experience), they are doing a different job and are in over their head until they figure it out. Now how long and how stubborn that person is will determine whether or not they are successful in the new position.

Here is one of the problems, Joe still wants to be a staff person micro managing the O. Detail guys have a hard time being a CEO.

Now the fact or not that his philosophy will work is another matter.

[TrapGame]

It has been my experience in my career, everytime someone takes a promotion (no matter how qualified their experience), they are doing a different job and are in over their head until they figure it out. Now how long and how stubborn that person is will determine whether or not they are successful in the new position.

Here is one of the problems, Joe still wants to be a staff person micro managing the O. Detail guys have a hard time being a CEO.

Now the fact or not that his philosophy will work is another matter.

A part time head coach is not a head coach. I think he is so engrossed in making the offense work the rest of the program has suffered.

[fishwater99]

It has been my experience in my career, everytime someone takes a promotion (no matter how qualified their experience), they are doing a different job and are in over their head until they figure it out. Now how long and how stubborn that person is will determine whether or not they are successful in the new position.

Here is one of the problems, Joe still wants to be a staff person micro managing the O. Detail guys have a hard time being a CEO.

Now the fact or not that his philosophy will work is another matter.


Mullen did the same with his offense and still does, but he's an asshole.

[TUSK]

Bama pays Cochran over a 500K

Yup. $595k.