Consequences of keeping Joe

[gtowndawg]

Forget the financial consequences of keeping Joe another year (lower ticket sales, less people in Starkville, etc.) what I'm concerned with the most is the long term effect of people dropping off as fans of MSU. There's already an issue of fans not caring as much (not just us but college football in general). It's the reality of our modern world. What happens when (if) they keep Joe and the impression is they don't care what the fans think. It's not the "old" days where fans will be there no matter what. There's too many distractions in today's world. Once a fan (a customer essentially) feels like you don't care about them, many will stop caring about you. We have an entire generation of fans that will simply lose interest in Mississippi State. Case in point: fall break (here in Tennessee at least) has become vacation central. 10x more people go on vacation on fall break (beach, mountains, whatever) than they do on spring break. It's right in the middle of football season and people simply don't care. That's a phenomenon that didn't exist 10 years ago much less 30 years ago.

That's why the nonsense of "you can't fire a coach after two years" doesn't apply to the modern game of college football. The landscape has changed and it's getting harder and harder to engage fans. You HAVE to make a move, there's no way around it that I see.

[Tbonewannabe]

I actually didn't think about that aspect. It is harder to get someone to reengage than to just increase their attention. No matter what happens, keep or let Joe go, next year is a big year for MSU football. Luckily, it is also our typical up year where we have a better shot at 8 wins.

[TrapGame]

Keeping Joe a third year cannot be an option now. If we had handled Tennessee, more disciplined, more competitive, Stevens looking great at QB then yeah, I'd say Joe could pull this off. This is a dumpster fire now and keeping Joe in a third year does nothing but make it hotter with the possibility of it spreading. Arkansas is tougher than we are. OM is tougher than we are. Abilene averages 30 points a game. We may actually be in a fight with these guys. Effing Abilene Christian!!!

[Churchill]

This post should be "required reading". IMO It is absolutely inarguable .

[gtowndawg]

Keeping Joe a third year cannot be an option now. If we had handled Tennessee, more disciplined, more competitive, Stevens looking great at QB then yeah, I'd say Joe could pull this off. This is a dumpster fire now and keeping Joe in a third year does nothing but make it hotter with the possibility of it spreading. Arkansas is tougher than we are. OM is tougher than we are. Abilene averages 30 points a game. We may actually be in a fight with these guys. Effing Abilene Christian!!!

I don't know how else to put it. If they keep Joe their just giving the middle finger to fans. That's all there is to it. My Dad wants him fired and he's never called for a coach to be fired. He defended Sly Croom for Heaven's sake. Think about that!

[Tbonewannabe]

Keeping Joe a third year cannot be an option now. If we had handled Tennessee, more disciplined, more competitive, Stevens looking great at QB then yeah, I'd say Joe could pull this off. This is a dumpster fire now and keeping Joe in a third year does nothing but make it hotter with the possibility of it spreading. Arkansas is tougher than we are. OM is tougher than we are. Abilene averages 30 points a game. We may actually be in a fight with these guys. Effing Abilene Christian!!!

I think I posted before but losing to UT basically lost the fanbase in a way that only gets them back by beating Bama and UM and getting to a bowl. Even then it would depend on how we looked in the other games. We just look lazy, soft, and unfocused. I don't think you can fix that in the middle of the season.

[gtowndawg]

I don't think you can fix that in the middle of the season.

I literally can't think of an example where a team quit and then turned it right back on one week and finished strong. It took the team 16 months to get here and it will take at least an off season to get them out of it. So, yeah, I agree with you. It can't be fixed in the middle of a season. Too far gone at this point.

[Tbonewannabe]

I literally can't think of an example where a team quit and then turned it right back on one week and finished strong. It took the team 16 months to get here and it will take at least an off season to get them out of it. So, yeah, I agree with you. It can't be fixed in the middle of a season. Too far gone at this point.

This is probably the type of thing that a great S&C coach combined with doing something like going to the Farm is how it gets fixed. It would also help to have a guy like Dak Prescott in the locker room. Shrader might be that type of guy or he could be the Fitz type who just gives you everything they have on the field and is more quiet off it.

[Choctaw Dawg]

You have to bring in a guy that will rile fans up too, moorhead is an EXTREMELY boring guy and not a great motivator to the fan base. When mullen first got here we broke attendance records twice his first season (Florida and Alabama) even though we were a 5-7 team. Mullen might have got bored his last few years but he at least could have the team and fan base motivated based on how he acted alone.

I think our fanbase will pretty motivated when a new coach comes in anyway, everybody is just about fed up with moorhead and will excited for change like when Mullen came in in 2009

[Mjoelner34]

This is why any buyout amount doesnt matter at this point. Spend that amount now risking that the new guy can turn it around or at least stop the fall or be assured of going over the cliff and losing more than the current buyout amount over the next few years.

[Dawgbite]

I got news for you, the University hasn't cared about the fans since that first SEC Network check cleared the bank.

[gtowndawg]

I got news for you, the University hasn't cared about the fans since that first SEC Network check cleared the bank.

I assume there's some hyperbole in that statement, but if they don't put any emphasis on what fans think because of TV money, than college sports as we know it is dead anyway.

[timotheus]

Very true but we at least need a coach who can generate some excitement for the program. Wait til he's let go in 2023 and see what it looks like.

[Goldendawg]

Many on this board stated that he under achieved at 8-5 last year but he got the fourth year added back to his contract and a raise. Maybe, in the words of Sly Croom after the 48-0 loss to UM, "I didn't see that one coming", our AD didn't see this coming at all.

[RougeDawg]

Many on this board stated that he under achieved at 8-5 last year but he got the fourth year added back to his contract and a raise. Maybe, in the words of Sly Croom after the 48-0 loss to UM, "I didn't see that one coming", our AD didn't see this coming at all.

The only way you could not see this coming, is if you had spent the last 18 months in a cave, with zero contact with the outside world. The warning signs were there early last season. The great defense just masked them and prevented most from seeing reality.

[War Machine Dawg]

The only way you could not see this coming, is if you had spent the last 18 months in a cave, with zero contact with the outside world. The warning signs were there early last season. The great defense just masked them and prevented most from seeing reality.

I thought Hadad made a really great point on the Thunder & Lightning pod today. 5 losses was the absolute floor with last year's team. It was utterly impossible to lose more than 5 games with that group because of the amount of defensive talent. Jughead lost 5 games despite having a defense that gave up less than a touchdown a game. Let that sink in. We literally had a national championship caliber D and our "offensive guru" HC lost 5 games with a D that gave up under 7 points per game. It almost doesn't even register it's so absurd.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Good point. When you lose people, it's hard to get them back. I loved MSU basketball. When we recruited clowns like Dee Bost and Renardo Sydney I quit watching. It's taken me years to ease back into it. And I still don't love it like I used to.

[RougeDawg]

I thought Hadad made a really great point on the Thunder & Lightning pod today. 5 losses was the absolute floor with last year's team. It was utterly impossible to lose more than 5 games with that group because of the amount of defensive talent. Jughead lost 5 games despite having a defense that gave up less than a touchdown a game. Let that sink in. We literally had a national championship caliber D and our "offensive guru" HC lost 5 games with a D that gave up under 7 points per game. It almost doesn't even register it's so absurd.

Correct. Last year when people were defending 8 wins, I kept saying SloMo was at least a -2 wins on the season because he had a net negative effect on the performances. Any coach who came in and ran the old offense last year wins 10 games easy. More likely 11. Last year was inexcusable.

[War Machine Dawg]

Correct. Last year when people were defending 8 wins, I kept saying SloMo was at least a -2 wins on the season because he had a net negative effect on the performances. Any coach who came in and ran the old offense last year wins 10 games easy. More likely 11. Last year was inexcusable.

Exactly. We should have been 10-2 or 11-1 regular season. He can’t be out the door soon enough. And btw, I think this year has proven we owe Fitz an apology for blaming him for the abortion that is Jughead’s offense.

[RougeDawg]

Exactly. We should have been 10-2 or 11-1 regular season. He can?t be out the door soon enough. And btw, I think this year has proven we owe Fitz an apology for blaming him for the abortion that is Jughead?s offense.

I was a Fitz defender. He did not deserve the criticism. The offensive scheme and hands like a snake receivers were the biggest issues. Same shit this year. If SloMo the Clown had stuck to our strengths, we would have been in a New Years six Bowl at minimum.

That?s why I was so pissed about last year and gave up after he abandoned the auburn game plan.

[Coach007]

Moorhead is not going anywhere after this season. What we saw on the field was not acceptable at all. But unless Moorhead walks away he is here for another year.

[KOdawg1]

Moorhead is not going anywhere after this season. What we saw on the field was not acceptable at all. But unless Moorhead walks away he is here for another year.

If he goes 4-8 and gets embarrassed in the Egg Bowl, I think that's enough

[Coach007]

If he goes 4-8 and gets embarrassed in the Egg Bowl, I think that's enough

I'm just saying, he's not going anywhere....

And I will say this, you will see some changes. At the end of next year, if we are not very much so improved.... He will be removed. But, factually speaking, he is here one more year unless he decides to move on.


And you can ask those with ears to the ground here.

[FriarsPoint]

I'm just saying, he's not going anywhere....

And I will say this, you will see some changes. At the end of next year, if we are not very much so improved.... He will be removed. But, factually speaking, he is here one more year unless he decides to move on.


And you can ask those with ears to the ground here.

This kind of junk turns my stomach. Jesus. Mississippi State is it’s own worst enemy.

[Coach007]

This kind of junk turns my stomach. Jesus. Mississippi State is it’s own worst enemy.

It's a rebuild year, and most get that, including the admin. They all know the issues and they all know it's not acceptable too. But you can't dismiss the issues on either side.


- ten players suspended for eight games that has hurt the team. Everybody focuses on the 2-3 starters. But let's be honest, it's your special teams too. It's continuity.

- We are playing freshmen on the DL and at CBs. There is a real gap that has to be rebuilt. And anybody remotely wanting to be honest knows this.

- When Stevens started the year, we all saw what the offense can be. He got injured and has not been the same. Moorhead could no more control that than the heat at the games in Sept.

- He could not control the OL injuries either.


NOW.. that's ZERO excuse for some of the things we are seeing. But, having said that.... he has to right the ship via recruiting and wins or he is out at the end of next year.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'm just saying, he's not going anywhere....

And I will say this, you will see some changes. At the end of next year, if we are not very much so improved.... He will be removed. But, factually speaking, he is here one more year unless he decides to move on.


And you can ask those with ears to the ground here.

I would think when we have about 20-30k attendance that will get their attention. Season tickets are already down. I don't know if they want to see what happens if we finish with 4-5 wins and get blown out by UM in Starkville.

[War Machine Dawg]

I would think when we have about 20-30k attendance that will get their attention. Season tickets are already down. I don't know if they want to see what happens if we finish with 4-5 wins and get blown out by UM in Starkville.

Butts in seats, or more specifically the lack thereof, tend to force the hand. The 2020 home schedule is brutal enough, but if you're trying to sell tickets with Jughead still in charge, I can guarantee we won't fill 50% of the stadium next season. There's no way the athletic department is going to be willing to take that much of a financial hit, SEC money or not. And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we lose some of the SEC money while we're on probation?

[FriarsPoint]

It's a rebuild year, and most get that, including the admin. They all know the issues and they all know it's not acceptable too. But you can't dismiss the issues on either side.


- ten players suspended for eight games that has hurt the team. Everybody focuses on the 2-3 starters. But let's be honest, it's your special teams too. It's continuity.

- We are playing freshmen on the DL and at CBs. There is a real gap that has to be rebuilt. And anybody remotely wanting to be honest knows this.

- When Stevens started the year, we all saw what the offense can be. He got injured and has not been the same. Moorhead could no more control that than the heat at the games in Sept.

- He could not control the OL injuries either.


NOW.. that's ZERO excuse for some of the things we are seeing. But, having said that.... he has to right the ship via recruiting and wins or he is out at the end of next year.

You missed my point. The fact that fans/administrators/anyone thinks there should be a third year leaves me stunned at that kind of stupidity and incompetence.

[Coach007]

I would think when we have about 20-30k attendance that will get their attention. Season tickets are already down. I don't know if they want to see what happens if we finish with 4-5 wins and get blown out by UM in Starkville.

Yeah nobody involved wants that and I will say this, It's not a way to handle the situation either. True story, I purchased a guys season tickets during the mullen years. I need a few extra tickets and he asked me if I wanted the season. Why? Because he was pissed that mullen was not winning and not playing the back up.

There are 2 years that this reminds me off, though we could lose more. 2013. 6-7..... The year I got his tickets. We had to win the last game vs Ole Miss to get into a bowl. 2016.. We may not like it, but truth is, we lost to South Alabama... Umass was to close for comfort (47-35). We went into halftime down in that game. We Lost to BYU. We lost to UK.. and start the season 2-5. We couldn't stop SAMFORD from scoring 41 points. We lost to Arkansas at home!

We were 4-7 and literally made a bowl with a losing record. 5-7. At the bowl game.... we barely beat miami.... of OH and we had to BLOCK a game ending FG to do it.


My point is, we have had lean years like this, and it will pass. This is not the old Ms St.

[Coach007]

Butts in seats, or more specifically the lack thereof, tend to force the hand. The 2020 home schedule is brutal enough, but if you're trying to sell tickets with Jughead still in charge, I can guarantee we won't fill 50% of the stadium next season. There's no way the athletic department is going to be willing to take that much of a financial hit, SEC money or not. And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we lose some of the SEC money while we're on probation?


He will be in charge. And we will sell tickets.

[Coach007]

You missed my point. The fact that fans/administrators/anyone thinks there should be a third year leaves me stunned at that kind of stupidity and incompetence.

Well, again... We have ups and downs. Look at the mighty mullen years:

Down:

- 2009.. 5-7 1st year plenty of talent.
- 2011.. goes 7-6.... Had to win last game to make a bowl.
- 2013.. 7-6.. had to win the last game to make a bowl
- 2016.. goes 6-7.. a losing season. in fact made it to a bowl game with a losing regular season 5-7 with loses to South Alabama, UK, BYU, and Arkansas at home.

See the ups and downs? Some of that is recruiting issues. And 3 years later, we are seeing those issues again.

[TNDawg35]

Well, again... We have ups and downs. Look at the mighty mullen years:

Down:

- 2009.. 5-7 1st year plenty of talent.
- 2011.. goes 7-6.... Had to win last game to make a bowl.
- 2013.. 7-6.. had to win the last game to make a bowl
- 2016.. goes 6-7.. a losing season. in fact made it to a bowl game with a losing regular season 5-7 with loses to South Alabama, UK, BYU, and Arkansas at home.

See the ups and downs? Some of that is recruiting issues. And 3 years later, we are seeing those issues again.

This is what your not seeing tho 07, those yrs we still played hard and were gritty, we just sucked. This yr we have no passion, no drive, no pissy ness, no nothing. We have receivers who don?t give a shit, RB who is a prima Donna and wants everyone to ?look at me?. Yes the D is young. We all understand that. What none of us understands tho is why our Offensive genius won?t do what?s necessary to win games. He has the pieces, but won?t do it. He doesn?t hold anyone accountable. Hell I would have left Joey Jones in KTown.

Look, we all understand it?s a rebuilding yr. No one expected us to play with Bama, LSU, or even Auburn this yr. What we did expect tho was to give some type of ****ing effort. Which we didn?t. That?s what this wjlhoke shit storm is over. Effort!! If you can?t see that, then boss your a problem also. Stop making excuses and open you damn eyes dude.

[Coach007]

This is what your not seeing tho 07, those yrs we still played hard and were gritty, we just sucked. This yr we have no passion, no drive, no pissy ness, no nothing. We have receivers who don?t give a shit, RB who is a prima Donna and wants everyone to ?look at me?. Yes the D is young. We all understand that. What none of us understands tho is why our Offensive genius won?t do what?s necessary to win games. He has the pieces, but won?t do it. He doesn?t hold anyone accountable. Hell I would have left Joey Jones in KTown.

Look, we all understand it?s a rebuilding yr. No one expected us to play with Bama, LSU, or even Auburn this yr. What we did expect tho was to give some type of ****ing effort. Which we didn?t. That?s what this wjlhoke shit storm is over. Effort!! If you can?t see that, then boss your a problem also. Stop making excuses and open you damn eyes dude.

No... no. We did not. South Alabama in year what 7 of Mullen, was not gritty. It was full or errors and lack of discipline. That whole season was like that. Literally, our defense gave up 41 to samford, 35 to Umass, 58 to friggin Arkansas. We were not gritty. We were not gritty in 2013 either. We score 3 points in our opening game. etc.

Here is the truth. We have had players who did not care under Mullen. We have always had WR problems under him. We have had primas too. This season is the worst roster I have seen at MS ST in a long time:

- having to play a ton of freshmen.
- lost starting QB that was looking great and has not been right since injury
- KT was injured
- forced to play a true freshman. and at one point had to play the 4th guy.
- 10 players MATTER in a rebuild year. Ask special teams that lack Murphy, Gay and others. Ask the DL.... ask the LBs
- Why are we having to play true freshmen at CB?
- the amount of injuries to the OL

I will say it once more, you can not build continuity on the DL and other areas when players float in and out due to suspensions. I watch Gay out of position against UT. 4 games isn't enough to knock rust off.

You are seeing growth at positions, but most of the lack of "effort" is youth. I have watch Emerson make a pick and great plays and also cost 2 TDs in 2 different games. I mean blown coverage mistakes. That's not a lack of effort. That a lack of experience.

The OL, that's an issue. A Major issue... The lack of protection is a problem. Hill in blocking is a problem.

[Todd4State]

It's a rebuild year, and most get that, including the admin. They all know the issues and they all know it's not acceptable too. But you can't dismiss the issues on either side.


- ten players suspended for eight games that has hurt the team. Everybody focuses on the 2-3 starters. But let's be honest, it's your special teams too. It's continuity.

- We are playing freshmen on the DL and at CBs. There is a real gap that has to be rebuilt. And anybody remotely wanting to be honest knows this.

- When Stevens started the year, we all saw what the offense can be. He got injured and has not been the same. Moorhead could no more control that than the heat at the games in Sept.

- He could not control the OL injuries either.


NOW.. that's ZERO excuse for some of the things we are seeing. But, having said that.... he has to right the ship via recruiting and wins or he is out at the end of next year.

Right now on Twitter I see the administration begging fans to come to the LSU game.

Personally, I can't see him back next year. One way or the other. People are so pissed off right now and I know the administration knows it. And there's not a lot that they can say because it's mostly valid. On the other side I don't think Joe wants to be here anymore either so at this point I would say the odds of a mutual departure are probably pretty high.

MSU can't afford to take a mulligan year and hope that he pulls a Jackie 1996. And Joe probably doesn't want to try to anyway.

[RiverCityDawg]

He will be in charge. And we will sell tickets.

You're saying all this without the experience of us actually going 4-8. Think about how bad it will be if we get to that point. There will be no hope from anyone, yourself included. There will be no choice at that point. I think most agree if we manage 6-6 he will still be here. Doesn't mean it's going to work long term because it will not, but most at this point are expecting 4-8 or 5-7 with the continued downward spiral.

[timotheus]

Dam 007, I wonder about your logic now. Kt isn't and has never been injured this season and UT ran plays designed to avoid willie gay all game. It's just scheming, something that Joe knows zilch about. I think he closes his eyes and point to a play on that document he holds in his hand to determine which play to run. I love watching the D show one look and then change formations and blow up the play. He's just guessing and just guessing will make one look like a fool in this conference. Week by week JoMo is proving my theory.

[Pollodawg]

Moorhead is not going anywhere after this season. What we saw on the field was not acceptable at all. But unless Moorhead walks away he is here for another year.

I heard Croom was safe in ‘08, too.

[TrapGame]

Moorhead is not going anywhere after this season. What we saw on the field was not acceptable at all. But unless Moorhead walks away he is here for another year.

4-8 and he's gone. Sports media sees he's a dud. This is not a new coach trying to put a dumpster fire out. This is a new coach tossing a match in the dumpster the day he started, but tells us to ignore the smoke.

[dawgday166]

I literally can't think of an example where a team quit and then turned it right back on one week and finished strong. It took the team 16 months to get here and it will take at least an off season to get them out of it. So, yeah, I agree with you. It can't be fixed in the middle of a season. Too far gone at this point.

Exactly right. Would take 2 or 3 years to approach what he tore down in 19 games. The new culture is the easy way to go ... very difficult to turn that back around to a work harder, be tougher culture.

[dawgday166]

The only way you could not see this coming, is if you had spent the last 18 months in a cave, with zero contact with the outside world. The warning signs were there early last season. The great defense just masked them and prevented most from seeing reality.

If it hadn't been for Shoop putting in Toughness Tuesday and the exceptional player leadership on last year's team ... that team would've only looked some better than this one.

In Shoop's PC after he put in Toughness Tuesdays he talked about how every team came into a game trying to "literally kill you". He even kinda talked in a roundabout way, without calling out Joe, on the staff having to get used to that and to understand that.

[Coach007]

Dam 007, I wonder about your logic now. Kt isn't and has never been injured this season and UT ran plays designed to avoid willie gay all game. It's just scheming, something that Joe knows zilch about. I think he closes his eyes and point to a play on that document he holds in his hand to determine which play to run. I love watching the D show one look and then change formations and blow up the play. He's just guessing and just guessing will make one look like a fool in this conference. Week by week JoMo is proving my theory.

Like I said, no excuses for what happened on Sat.

[dawgday166]

No... no. We did not. South Alabama in year what 7 of Mullen, was not gritty. It was full or errors and lack of discipline. That whole season was like that. Literally, our defense gave up 41 to samford, 35 to Umass, 58 to friggin Arkansas. We were not gritty. We were not gritty in 2013 either. We score 3 points in our opening game. etc.

Here is the truth. We have had players who did not care under Mullen. We have always had WR problems under him. We have had primas too. This season is the worst roster I have seen at MS ST in a long time:

- having to play a ton of freshmen.
- lost starting QB that was looking great and has not been right since injury
- KT was injured
- forced to play a true freshman. and at one point had to play the 4th guy.
- 10 players MATTER in a rebuild year. Ask special teams that lack Murphy, Gay and others. Ask the DL.... ask the LBs
- Why are we having to play true freshmen at CB?
- the amount of injuries to the OL

I will say it once more, you can not build continuity on the DL and other areas when players float in and out due to suspensions. I watch Gay out of position against UT. 4 games isn't enough to knock rust off.

You are seeing growth at positions, but most of the lack of "effort" is youth. I have watch Emerson make a pick and great plays and also cost 2 TDs in 2 different games. I mean blown coverage mistakes. That's not a lack of effort. That a lack of experience.

The OL, that's an issue. A Major issue... The lack of protection is a problem. Hill in blocking is a problem.

We're not playing a ton of Fr on offense. Our starters are 3 RS Sr, 3 Sr, and 5 Jrs. Backup Oline are 3 Srs, a Jr, and a stud 4* RS Fr.

And starters on Dline are RS Fr at tackles only. Back end and LBs are missing depth for sure. LBs especially with Gay out.

Even tho Tommy looked "great" against USM only, if anyone thinks that he's an SEC QB they don't know much about football. I could tell even in that game when the pressure came ... he couldn't handle it. And the pressure he was getting was nowhere near what it was going to be in SEC play.

Hill's blocking "problem" should've been addressed last year. I would play Hollaway before Hill. Holloway couldn't really be that effective blocking cause of his size, but dammit he wasn't scared to do it either. A buck 65 is what he weighed and he'd still take on those SEC LBs and get his butt whupped but he'd slow them down a little. The reason Hollaway started over Aeris was cause Aeris missed blocking assignments about half the time and got QB killed. But Aeris would block when he didn't miss the assignment. Hill don't want to block ... period. He also half-asses his fakes too.

This is a little bit of a rebuild year but Mullen's entire team in 2016 was Sophs, with a new Soph starting QB. Not quite the same scenario. That was on Mullen due to lack of recruiting and he did country club after 2014. But it's obvious now Joe been country clubbing since he got here .. and he hasn't had a 2014 season yet. Could have if he hadn't country clubbed last year.

[MadDawg]

I fear Croom 2.0 is on the horizon.

[Coach007]

We're not playing a ton of Fr on offense. Our starters are 3 RS Sr, 3 Sr, and 5 Jrs. Backup Oline are 3 Srs, a Jr, and a stud 4* RS Fr.


That's been bang up all season. Continuity is hard to build with people in and out. But I will remind everybody that Mullen had no less than what 5 NFL OL on a team that could only score 20 on South Alabama and 17 against Miami of Oh... and that year had a losing record. How many NFL OLs do you see on this OL currently? 1?

However, we are not talking about just the OL and you know it.



And starters on Dline are RS Fr at tackles only. Back end and LBs are missing depth for sure. LBs especially with Gay out.


And the DTs are not the only freshmen playing. A td by Auburn and by LSU was due to blown assignments by true freshmen having to play in rotation. And as to Gay, it's the same thing. It's hard for a unit and a team to gain continuity when players are in and out. Special teams and more have been missing 10 guys.

For comparison, look at the defense in 2016. The D staff is doing more with less.



Hill's blocking "problem" should've been addressed last year. I would play Hollaway before Hill. Holloway couldn't really be that effective blocking cause of his size, but dammit he wasn't scared to do it either. A buck 65 is what he weighed and he'd still take on those SEC LBs and get his butt whupped but he'd slow them down a little. The reason Hollaway started over Aeris was cause Aeris missed blocking assignments about half the time and got QB killed. But Aeris would block when he didn't miss the assignment. Hill don't want to block ... period. He also half-asses his fakes too.



So bench Hill? If Moorhead benched Hill people would skip the rock through the window and drive a friggin truck through the front door. Yeah, Hills protection is weak, but it's better than the year before. Maybe he's still not getting it and will never get it.



This is a little bit of a rebuild year but Mullen's entire team in 2016 was Sophs, with a new Soph starting QB.


Not true. This is just the OL

Rankin.. Jr.. NFL
Clayborn- Sr
Desper ... Sr
Johnson.. Sr

Then there were these that are in the NFL now....
- Rankin .. NFL OT
- Senior.. NFL OL
- Calhoun -NFL OL
- Jenkins- NFL OL

All off the OL. At TE... 2 NFL players in Johnson and Thomas and he was a Jr. 2 Jr WRs and 1 Sr Wr.


And could only score 20 vs South Alabama and 17 vs Miami of oh... and had a losing season.



LIKE I SAID.... THERE ARE NO EXCUSES for what was fielded vs UT. None. However, let's not act like we have never been here before. We have. Most of this is due to rebuilding and youth. And All I am saying is he won't be fired this year.

[Coach007]

I fear Croom 2.0 is on the horizon.

Everybody does. but it won't get there. The Admin will act if it's not handled via recruiting and field production in 2020.

[BB30]

That's been bang up all season. Continuity is hard to build with people in and out. But I will remind everybody that Mullen had no less than what 5 NFL OL on a team that could only score 20 on South Alabama and 17 against Miami of Oh... and that year had a losing record. How many NFL OLs do you see on this OL currently? 1?

However, we are not talking about just the OL and you know it.




And the DTs are not the only freshmen playing. A td by Auburn and by LSU was due to blown assignments by true freshmen having to play in rotation. And as to Gay, it's the same thing. It's hard for a unit and a team to gain continuity when players are in and out. Special teams and more have been missing 10 guys.

For comparison, look at the defense in 2016. The D staff is doing more with less.



So bench Hill? If Moorhead benched Hill people would skip the rock through the window and drive a friggin truck through the front door. Yeah, Hills protection is weak, but it's better than the year before. Maybe he's still not getting it and will never get it.



Not true. This is just the OL

Rankin.. Jr.. NFL
Clayborn- Sr
Desper ... Sr
Johnson.. Sr

Then there were these that are in the NFL now....
- Rankin .. NFL OT
- Senior.. NFL OL
- Calhoun -NFL OL
- Jenkins- NFL OL

All off the OL. At TE... 2 NFL players in Johnson and Thomas and he was a Jr. 2 Jr WRs and 1 Sr Wr.


And could only score 20 vs South Alabama and 17 vs Miami of oh... and had a losing season.



LIKE I SAID.... THERE ARE NO EXCUSES for what was fielded vs UT. None. However, let's not act like we have never been here before. We have. Most of this is due to rebuilding and youth. And All I am saying is he won't be fired this year.

Unsurprisingly, we have been here a lot more often than we haven't. Historically speaking Mullen was an outlier. 7-5/8-4 has more or less been our ceiling historically. I don't think our fan base has a good understanding of how hard it is to win here.

Now, that being said, I am not defending JOMO and I don't really think he is the answer long term. I hope he proves me wrong and we somehow find a way to close out the season strong. He's been dealt a tough deck of cards this season personnel wise but good coaches find a way to overcome those issues and at least win the games they are supposed to win. He hasn't done that. The K state and UT games are inexcusable.

As for the freshmen having to play this year, they should be starting to improve due to the experience they are getting and that doesn't seem to be the case right now.

He absolutely has to find a way to look much improved this week and build off of that if he wants to stay here. I'm not saying he has to win but the team has to look more disciplined in every facet. There needs to be some form of organization and execution.

I agree with you though. I don't think hes gone after this year unless he drops another one he isn't supposed to lose. If he loses to Arky and OM with a poor showing against Abilene he may be out the door.

For what its worth, I still believe we get to 6-6 and make a bowl in which case he's still here next season. And if he is still here he better dang sure find a way to be much much improved next season.

[Coach007]

Unsurprisingly, we have been here a lot more often than we haven't. Historically speaking Mullen was an outlier. 7-5/8-4 has more or less been our ceiling historically. I don't think our fan base has a good understanding of how hard it is to win here.

Now, that being said, I am not defending JOMO and I don't really think he is the answer long term. I hope he proves me wrong and we somehow find a way to close out the season strong. He's been dealt a tough deck of cards this season personnel wise but good coaches find a way to overcome those issues and at least win the games they are supposed to win. He hasn't done that. The K state and UT games are inexcusable.

As for the freshmen having to play this year, they should be starting to improve due to the experience they are getting and that doesn't seem to be the case right now.

He absolutely has to find a way to look much improved this week and build off of that if he wants to stay here. I'm not saying he has to win but the team has to look more disciplined in every facet. There needs to be some form of organization and execution.

I agree with you though. I don't think hes gone after this year unless he drops another one he isn't supposed to lose. If he loses to Arky and OM with a poor showing against Abilene he may be out the door.

For what its worth, I still believe we get to 6-6 and make a bowl in which case he's still here next season. And if he is still here he better dang sure find a way to be much much improved next season.


That's where I am at. I can't call it underachieving when I see UGA under Mark. That's underachieving. This seems to be our historical "rebuild" years. Do I like it. Not one bit. Do I see things that have to be fixed... yes. The number 1 thing is consistency in recruiting. We should not have all of these down years due to it. Second, we need TEAM leadership. I have seen this under Mullen too. 2016 for example.

[Really Clark?]

No... no. We did not. South Alabama in year what 7 of Mullen, was not gritty. It was full or errors and lack of discipline. That whole season was like that. Literally, our defense gave up 41 to samford, 35 to Umass, 58 to friggin Arkansas. We were not gritty. We were not gritty in 2013 either. We score 3 points in our opening game. etc.

Here is the truth. We have had players who did not care under Mullen. We have always had WR problems under him. We have had primas too. This season is the worst roster I have seen at MS ST in a long time:

- having to play a ton of freshmen.
- lost starting QB that was looking great and has not been right since injury
- KT was injured
- forced to play a true freshman. and at one point had to play the 4th guy.
- 10 players MATTER in a rebuild year. Ask special teams that lack Murphy, Gay and others. Ask the DL.... ask the LBs
- Why are we having to play true freshmen at CB?
- the amount of injuries to the OL

I will say it once more, you can not build continuity on the DL and other areas when players float in and out due to suspensions. I watch Gay out of position against UT. 4 games isn't enough to knock rust off.

You are seeing growth at positions, but most of the lack of "effort" is youth. I have watch Emerson make a pick and great plays and also cost 2 TDs in 2 different games. I mean blown coverage mistakes. That's not a lack of effort. That a lack of experience.

The OL, that's an issue. A Major issue... The lack of protection is a problem. Hill in blocking is a problem.

Bull on 2016, it boiled down to 2 main issues. The hiring of Sirmon as DC was a total flop and our first transition to a 3-4 multiple front type of defense which is always difficult. What you are using as far as points given up by the defense was a failure in the installation and understanding and play calling. Not in effort and physicality. Grantham comes in the following year and installs his defense and we look like world beaters. We also added pieces from JUCO?s to up the talent. But it?s wasn't an effort issue nearly as much as bad coaching and teaching.

The other problem was not deciding on QB1 which also divided the locker room. That was on Mullen but once he settled on Fitz and the team finally embraced him as QB1 (the BYU game when he laid it all on the field is when the offensive players finally started to buy in to him) you could see positives and team come together. Nearly beat Kentucky then upset #4 Texas A & M. The issue of DC was already set and Sirmon was told to look elsewhere about mid season or game 8 that year. It was an obvious cluster and Louisville discovered the same cluster from him as well

[Coach007]

Bull on 2016, it boiled down to 2 main issues. The hiring of Sirmon as DC was a total flop and our first transition to a 3-4 multiple front type of defense which is always difficult. What you are using as far as points given up by the defense was a failure in the installation and understanding and play calling. Not in effort and physicality. Grantham comes in the following year and installs his defense and we look like world beaters. We also added pieces from JUCO?s to up the talent. But it?s wasn't an effort issue nearly as much as bad coaching and teaching.


That's the ame thing happening on defense and offense now Clark. Emerson... case in point. 2 DTs... case in point. And yes..... we were soft and YES we lacked effort under Mullen too..

Grantham came into a cycle of the Mullen recruiting pattern. We had good talent and the jucos beefed it way up. And there is NO excuses for Mullen to have been there in year 8. It's not even been 2 seasons under Moorhead.

Again... 2009, 2011, 2013, 2016 and now 2019 are all the result of recruiting issues and patterns set by Mullen.

[Really Clark?]

That's the ame thing happening on defense and offense now Clark. Emerson... case in point. 2 DTs... case in point. And yes..... we were soft and YES we lacked effort under Mullen too..

Grantham came into a cycle of the Mullen recruiting pattern. We had good talent and the jucos beefed it way up. And there is NO excuses for Mullen to have been there in year 8. It's not even been 2 seasons under Moorhead.

Again... 2009, 2011, 2013, 2016 and now 2019 are all the result of recruiting issues and patterns set by Mullen.

You can revise history all you want but it?s not true what went down in 2016. Mullen is to blame because he was HC for the Sirmon hire and everyone knew a defensive scheme transition was going to an issue for at least a year but he didn?t wait to see if Sirmon could turn it around another season. We traded DC and both teams went in totally different directions. It was bad bad coaching defensively. But we at least looked like we had a chance and beat a team with a winning record and highly ranked at the time in Texas A & M. 3 point loss to LSU and had the ball late with a chance to tie or win, double OT loss to BYU, 2 point loss to Kentucky scoring 38 points and they had to make a 51 yarder to win, and with a lick of a defensive clue we could have beat ARK. No excuse for the upset loss vs USA but a missed FG for the win and we are looking at 8-9 win season min. Mullen screwed up that year but a lot of that was directly tied to the DC hire and we still loss 3 games by a total of 6 points and another in double OT on the road to a 9-4 team. Heck even USA was a loss to a bowl team at least.

[Tbonewannabe]

You can revise history all you want but it?s not true what went down in 2016. Mullen is to blame because he was HC for the Sirmon hire and everyone knew a defensive scheme transition was going to an issue for at least a year but he didn?t wait to see if Sirmon could turn it around another season. We traded DC and both teams went in totally different directions. It was bad bad coaching defensively. But we at least looked like we had a chance and beat a team with a winning record and highly ranked at the time in Texas A & M. 3 point loss to LSU and had the ball late with a chance to tie or win, double OT loss to BYU, 2 point loss to Kentucky scoring 38 points and they had to make a 51 yarder to win, and with a lick of a defensive clue we could have beat ARK. No excuse for the upset loss vs USA but a missed FG for the win and we are looking at 8-9 win season min. Mullen screwed up that year but a lot of that was directly tied to the DC hire and we still loss 3 games by a total of 6 points and another in double OT on the road to a 9-4 team. Heck even USA was a loss to a bowl team at least.

Part of that was Fitz not stepping up like Mullen wanted and it cost us a couple of games for Fitz to figure it out. I will say that Mullen had a minimum level of effort and execution that he expected and if you didn't meet it then you just wouldn't play. It is probably why so few freshmen played because they hadn't figured out how much effort is required.

[Really Clark?]

Part of that was Fitz not stepping up like Mullen wanted and it cost us a couple of games for Fitz to figure it out. I will say that Mullen had a minimum level of effort and execution that he expected and if you didn't meet it then you just wouldn't play. It is probably why so few freshmen played because they hadn't figured out how much effort is required.

I agree and there was a split among the offensive players about who they wanted to start at QB. Fitz started to win over more of the players with his effort at BYU. They at least saw his effort and warrior mentality even if his execution was not there

[Coach007]

You can revise history all you want but it?s not true what went down in 2016. Mullen is to blame because he was HC for the Sirmon hire and everyone knew a defensive scheme transition was going to an issue for at least a year but he didn?t wait to see if Sirmon could turn it around another season. We traded DC and both teams went in totally different directions. It was bad bad coaching defensively. But we at least looked like we had a chance and beat a team with a winning record and highly ranked at the time in Texas A & M. 3 point loss to LSU and had the ball late with a chance to tie or win, double OT loss to BYU, 2 point loss to Kentucky scoring 38 points and they had to make a 51 yarder to win, and with a lick of a defensive clue we could have beat ARK. No excuse for the upset loss vs USA but a missed FG for the win and we are looking at 8-9 win season min. Mullen screwed up that year but a lot of that was directly tied to the DC hire and we still loss 3 games by a total of 6 points and another in double OT on the road to a 9-4 team. Heck even USA was a loss to a bowl team at least.

And we could say the same thing for last year under Moorhead with a dropped Pass for TD etc.. even this year man(KSU and UT).

You can't have rationale with one and dismiss it for the other. Moorhead beat a top 10 team too. Just apply the same standards.

[Coach007]

Part of that was Fitz not stepping up like Mullen wanted and it cost us a couple of games for Fitz to figure it out. I will say that Mullen had a minimum level of effort and execution that he expected and if you didn't meet it then you just wouldn't play. It is probably why so few freshmen played because they hadn't figured out how much effort is required.

What??? no no. Mullen was known for not playing the best talent we had over upper class-men. I read about it here forever.

[Tbonewannabe]

What??? no no. Mullen was known for not playing the best talent we had over upper class-men. I read about it here forever.

I am saying that Mullen doesn't play freshmen because they aren't giving 100% effort on every play. Like WRs not running routes or blocking at UT. Those things get you put in the doghouse on a Mullen team but with Moorhead they just go right back out there. Moorhead rarely holds anyone accountable.

[Coach007]

Like WRs not running routes or blocking at UT. Those things get you put in the doghouse on a Mullen team but with Moorhead they just go right back out there. Moorhead rarely holds anyone accountable.

I felt sorry for Stevens on the first drive! Plain and simple. Make the right read.. swtiches Hill to protection, WR simply is not where he is suppose to be and Hill fails to pick up the block. For the love of God.... that was an early TD if Hill makes the block, and the WR runs the slant. Nobody in the middle of the field.

Instead "STEVENS JUST HOLDS THE BALL..." No. He did his job and if the WRS want the next level, they HAVE to learn.

[Really Clark?]

And we could say the same thing for last year under Moorhead with a dropped Pass for TD etc.. even this year man(KSU and UT).

You can't have rationale with one and dismiss it for the other. Moorhead beat a top 10 team too. Just apply the same standards.

Way too much time left when we dropped that pass vs FL to know if that would have been enough. No way to know that. And no, KST and UT were not the same type of close losses as we had in 2016 multiple times. We lost by 10 (only scoring 10 points) to a 1-4 team who is next to last in scoring and next to last in scoring defense (FBS only games). No it’s not the same

[Really Clark?]

And we could say the same thing for last year under Moorhead with a dropped Pass for TD etc.. even this year man(KSU and UT).

You can't have rationale with one and dismiss it for the other. Moorhead beat a top 10 team too. Just apply the same standards.

Way too much time left when we dropped that pass vs FL to know if that would have been enough. No way to know that. And no, KST and UT were not the same type of close losses as we had in 2016 multiple times. We lost by 10 (only scoring 10 points) to a 1-4 team who is next to last in scoring and next to last in scoring defense (FBS only games). No it?s not the same

[Coach007]

Way too much time left when we dropped that pass vs FL to know if that would have been enough. No way to know that. And no, KST and UT were not the same type of close losses as we had in 2016 multiple times. We lost by 10 (only scoring 10 points) to a 1-4 team who is next to last in scoring and next to last in scoring defense (FBS only games). No it’s not the same

Doesn't matter.. we still dropped it. Don't dismiss it for one and excuse the other. It's not right. The talent level at UT far exceeds that of South Alabama Clark and you know it. It far out weighs that of Umaa, BYU, and Samford and you know. We got lucky vs Miami of OH in a game that we should not have been in. we had a losing record.... but somebody has to play in all of these "Bowls".

All I'm saying is apply the same standard. If we are transitioning, and we are, and he is doing NO LESS than the era of Mullen in the process.... give him the same opportunity. That was in Mullen's 8th year and he's not even done with year 2 and addressing the gaps and cycle Mullen was in.

[Really Clark?]

Doesn't matter.. we still dropped it. Don't dismiss it for one and excuse the other. It's not right. The talent level at UT far exceeds that of South Alabama Clark and you know it. It far out weighs that of Umaa, BYU, and Samford and you know. We got lucky vs Miami of OH in a game that we should not have been in. we had a losing record.... but somebody has to play in all of these "Bowls".

All I'm saying is apply the same standard. If we are transitioning, and we are, and he is doing NO LESS than the era of Mullen in the process.... give him the same opportunity. That was in Mullen's 8th year and he's not even done with year 2 and addressing the gaps and cycle Mullen was in.

Sure you can dismiss it. Games are not played in a vacuum like that. If you drop a pass for a TD on the first play of the game and lose 3-0, you don’t excuse the rest of the game where you did jack crap and say that’s the only reason you loss. USA is a bad loss, still had a FG to win it at the end. BYU was a double OT loss on the road to a 9-4 team, LSU is a 3 point loss in which you battle back and had the ball late in the 4th with a chance, Kentucky had to make a 51 yard FG to beat you in the final second of the game...all of those are completely different types of losses. UT was not in the same universe as those. KST we had the ball 4 times after they tied it and went ahead. Two bad drives then a chance that falls a yard short on 4th & 16 (another false start added to the complication). Sorry those games played out differently and at a min a made and missed last second FG and we are 7-5 in 2016. It didn’t happen but that’s not the same a dropped pass early in the Florida game or KST 7 point loss and no where in the same plane of existence as what happened at Tenn

ETA. We lost to Florida 13-6...that dropped pass was not for the win. Tie if we make the extra point. Still had a lot of game left

[bulldawg989]

Everybody does. but it won't get there. The Admin will act if it's not handled via recruiting and field production in 2020.

Time and time again you have dared me (and most of this board) to consider you a moron but this statement, among the countless others in this thread, seals it...you are a grade A dipshit. I truly hope you are confined to a room and not allowed in public, your delusion and stupidity is a danger to anyone around you.

[dawgday166]

NM

[Coach007]

Time and time again you have dared me (and most of this board) to consider you a moron but this statement, among the countless others in this thread, seals it...you are a grade A dipshit. I truly hope you are confined to a room and not allowed in public, your delusion and stupidity is a danger to anyone around you.

I never do ban bets. However I'm willing to put myself out there. so here it is:

- All of the "crew and gang"... Get them to agree and I will agree. I will lay out the names and the ban bet guidelines. Deal??? We will include you in it. We will see who is right and let the chips fall where they may.

[timotheus]

Are u betting that JoMo has a clue about attacking an SEC D? Hell, he has no clue what our offensive strength is simply because he hasn't a clue about assessment.

[bulldawg989]

I never do ban bets. However I'm willing to put myself out there. so here it is:

- All of the "crew and gang"... Get them to agree and I will agree. I will lay out the names and the ban bet guidelines. Deal??? We will include you in it. We will see who is right and let the chips fall where they may.

I have no idea what you're trying to bet, getting banned or banning the loser, or whatever and I'm not going to spend any time trying to figure it out. It's the lowest common denominator with every post you make, we all get it you have an unhealthy & quite frankly illogical fascination with Moorhead...congrats on that but the more you defend and make excuses for it the worse (i.e., dumber) your posts get. Unless you're John Cohen (maybe that explains it) the names you layout won't mean jack-shit.

[War Machine Dawg]

I heard Croom was safe in ?08, too.

He was until we got rid of LT and put Ninja in charge.

[dawgday166]

I have no idea what you're trying to bet, getting banned or banning the loser, or whatever and I'm not going to spend any time trying to figure it out.

I'm trying to figure this shit out too. I'll give him one thing tho ... without researching the entire makeup of the Oline in 2016, he was right about that. But we also only scored less than 20 in regular season twice all year (AU and UA) with a RS Soph at QB. And we turned the corner in the 6th game and only scored less than 38 one time (Bama) the rest of the way in regular season. Has Joe turned a corner on O yet??

I'm not counting 2016 bowl game cause who really gave a crap. I didn't even want us to go to a bowl that year. And ... I was off Dan's bandwagon then too. He took sabbaticals from coaching from time-to-time, which pissed me off. But never like Joe has done in last 2 years. And when Dan decided to coach 2014 and 2017 happened with 2018 likely to be special if he stayed and Grantham stayed too.

[DeputyDawg94]

I'm trying to figure this shit out too. I'll give him one thing tho ... without researching the entire makeup of the Oline in 2016, he was right about that. But we also only scored less than 20 in regular season twice all year (AU and UA) with a RS Soph at QB. And we turned the corner in the 6th game and only scored less than 38 one time (Bama) the rest of the way in regular season. Has Joe turned a corner on O yet??

I'm not counting 2016 bowl game cause who really gave a crap. I didn't even want us to go to a bowl that year. And ... I was off Dan's bandwagon then too. He took sabbaticals from coaching from time-to-time, which pissed me off. But never like Joe has done in last 2 years. And when Dan decided to coach 2014 and 2017 happened with 2018 likely to be special if he stayed and Grantham stayed too.
He turned a coner all right. And stepped out in front of a dump truck called SEC defenses.

[Coach007]

Are u betting that JoMo has a clue about attacking an SEC D? Hell, he has no clue what our offensive strength is simply because he hasn't a clue about assessment.

No.. I'm saying that I will stand by what I stated via a ban bet so long as the collective agree. That is Moorhead will be here next year unless he decides to move on.

But the collective have not agreed and terms not set.

[Coursesuper]

Time and time again you have dared me (and most of this board) to consider you a moron but this statement, among the countless others in this thread, seals it...you are a grade A dipshit. I truly hope you are confined to a room and not allowed in public, your delusion and stupidity is a danger to anyone around you.

This is one of the best post ever put on any messages board anywhere anytime about anything. Kudos to you bulldawg989.