Does MSU require an SOB as the head football coach to be successful??...

[maroonmania]

History seems to say yes. Going back a ways you have:

Felker - Great guy, lousy coach
Sherrill - SOB, great coach (at least the first 10 years)
Croom - Great guy, lousy coach
Mullen - SOB, great coach
Moorhead - Great guy, apparently going to be a lousy coach

I think it goes back to some other posts saying we have to have that tough-as-nails attitude for our players to compete and win in this league. Apparently only an SOB type coach can instill that.

[Irondawg]

I think so - just the type of kids we're dealing with need somebody who believes in them but hold them to a high standard. Right now we talk a high standard but it's clear we're not implementing that on and off the field.

We need a guy that wants to win.......bad and it bugs the crap out of him when he doesn't. I've not seen that out of Joe. I think he wants to win, but then he rationalizes it with things when he loses. Typically (not always) a lot of the great coaches are obsessed with winning. We need to find one of those guys.

You take a guy like Phil Jackson though - great coach, but he didn't have the the obsessive guy b/c he had Jordan and Kobe who two of the biggest competitors the NBA has ever seen. He just had to manage the ship. Joe with a guy like Dak or even Boobie might have worked but we have a "manager" type HC with NO locker room leaders. That's when you get stuff like we're seeing.

[Cooterpoot]

Sherrill really wasn’t an SOB. He was players coach.

[maroonmania]

Sherrill really wasn’t an SOB. He was players coach.

I mean more in general. Sherrill definitely had an edge to him. Heck, I don't think Mullen was an SOB to his players.

[Coach34]

Sherrill really wasn’t an SOB.

You wont convince Tooberville, Mike Dubose. or Tommy West that he isnt.

[Goldendawg]

Fire Jo and bring Jackie back as interim and start a job search!

[AlSwearengen]

About the only places that you can have a player’s coach is DIII schools or Ivy League schools. At an average P5 school, there aren’t enough leaders in the locker to keep the inmates from taking over the asylum.

We talk about coach’s salaries, but I couldn’t imagine trying to run an SEC football program. You can’t run off a lot of the problems b/c you will lose and the fans will run you off.

When does baseball season start again?

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Sherrill really wasn’t an SOB. He was players coach.

Agreed that Sherrill was a players coach. But he was an SOB because he believed in toughness. He would ram it down your throat. He wanted to whip the opponent, and the players responded to that.

[Cooterpoot]

You wont convince Tooberville, Mike Dubose. or Tommy West that he isnt.

Ha! When it came to players he wasn’t close to Mullen and coach Mother17r. He might have carried himself that way but he wasn’t a SOB like we saw on the last staff.

[Coursesuper]

In short, yes.

[Coach34]

Ha! When it came to players he wasn’t close to Mullen and coach Mother17r. He might have carried himself that way but he wasn’t a SOB like we saw on the last staff.

Oh no doubt. The players loved him and would kill for him- but he would jump their ass when needed. Mullen was a dick to the guys and Hevesy knew to never turn his back on people because they might throw something at him

[ShotgunDawg]

Being an SOB is a correlation but not the causation.

Good coaches are type A control freaks. Just so happens that many type A control freaks are SOBs.

What you're looking for is a boss and type A. You want people that overreact at the details and solve problems before they become a problem.

[smootness]

You can be a 'player's coach' and still hold players accountable and have high standards. You can be a nice guy and still be tough when needed.

No, you don't have to be a SOB. You do have to have high standards and keep players accountable. It's obvious Moorhead doesn't do that.

[DownwardDawg]

Fire Jo and bring Jackie back as interim and start a job search!

I’m for this 100%

[MetEdDawg]

At this point honestly I think it's difficult to know what we need from a coach.

Moorhead can recruit. Blue collar type background. Really smart according to everyone. But thus far unsuccessful.

Here's the question I have. When someone says home run for MSU, who do you think of? What's the perfect blend of coach we could get that screams home run hire?

Not I think he could do well. I want someone where you say "Yep that's the guy we all wanted that is gonna make the change we need". Who is that coach?

My concern is I don't see one that we can reasonably get. If you hold me down and I have to pick one I say Brent Venables. I'm not sure that's within reason, but that's the closest I can find. Possibly the best coordinator in college football. Tons of experience and success at multiple places. Could we give him $5 million for his salary and give him the money needed to get the assistants he wants?

That to me is the question. We can't have good assistants making lateral moves like Huff and Baker. We can't have that stuff happen anymore. Changing the coach to me does nothing until we change the culture of how important we place football compared to everyone else. We aren't going to compete until we open the pocketbook up.

[ShotgunDawg]

At this point honestly I think it's difficult to know what we need from a coach.

Moorhead can recruit. Blue collar type background. Really smart according to everyone. But thus far unsuccessful.

Here's the question I have. When someone says home run for MSU, who do you think of? What's the perfect blend of coach we could get that screams home run hire?

Not I think he could do well. I want someone where you say "Yep that's the guy we all wanted that is gonna make the change we need". Who is that coach?

My concern is I don't see one that we can reasonably get. If you hold me down and I have to pick one I say Brent Venables. I'm not sure that's within reason, but that's the closest I can find. Possibly the best coordinator in college football. Tons of experience and success at multiple places. Could we give him $5 million for his salary and give him the money needed to get the assistants he wants?

That to me is the question. We can't have good assistants making lateral moves like Huff and Baker. We can't have that stuff happen anymore. Changing the coach to me does nothing until we change the culture of how important we place football compared to everyone else. We aren't going to compete until we open the pocketbook up.

Moorhead has the wrong personality to be a good head coach at this level. It's not going to work.

And never ever choose recruiting ability over coaching ability. Always choose coaching and hope he can also recruit.

[Saltydog]

Agreed that Sherrill was a players coach. But he was an SOB because he believed in toughness. He would ram it down your throat. He wanted to whip the opponent, and the players responded to that.

And I think that's what we need again. I know he's a damn yankee and has some baggage but if a SOB is what you want then Schiano may be your guy.

[was21]

Sherrill would never jump a player. He would delegate that to an assistant. He would not look a player in the eye and gig his ass, but Mullen would..that's why Mullen is heads and tails a better tougher smarter corch than Jackie ever aspired to. Moorhead ain't even in the running...he wants to be friends with his assistant corches as well as the players...he doesn't have a chance as success at State or anywhere in the SEC

[MetEdDawg]

Moorhead has the wrong personality to be a good head coach at this level. It's not going to work.

And never ever choose recruiting ability over coaching ability. Always choose coaching and hope he can also recruit.

I don't disagree. But again, folks said he could coach AND recruit. Question still stands. Who is the home rum? Who is the guy that comes in and everyone says yes please let's do this. We have Saban, Jimbo, Orgeron, and Malzahn just in our division. Big personalities to contend with. Who comes in and can do everything well to compete with those 4 programs?

I'm not sure we are at the point we can find someone good enough to do that. Whoever we hire is a gamble. I'm all aboard the Moorhead needs to go train. But the fan base has no clue right now who fixes us. We are pissed because we lost to a poorly coached team. The guy that is their HC was the other name we interviewed. Not exactly winning the eye test as far as potential hires for our program went.

Who is THE guy?

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't disagree. But again, folks said he could coach AND recruit. Question still stands. Who is the home rum? Who is the guy that comes in and everyone says yes please let's do this. We have Saban, Jimbo, Orgeron, and Malzahn just in our division. Big personalities to contend with. Who comes in and can do everything well to compete with those 4 programs?

I'm not sure we are at the point we can find someone good enough to do that. Whoever we hire is a gamble. I'm all aboard the Moorhead needs to go train. But the fan base has no clue right now who fixes us. We are pissed because we lost to a poorly coached team. The guy that is their HC was the other name we interviewed. Not exactly winning the eye test as far as potential hires for our program went.

Who is THE guy?

It's not our job to know those things. It's the AD's job.

Every coach is a gamble but Moorhead is no longer a gamble. We know the outcome. Thus we MUST take another gamble.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think it's much more simple. We need someone who embraces MSU and MSU football as a philosophy. Sherrill & Mullen embraced the hard nosed, physical style of play. Crxxm & Mxxrhead tried to make us Bama/PSU 2.0. They don't believe in MSU as MSU. To win here, you have to be more mean & physical than the other teams. As The Kang would say it: We can't win a track meet with Florida or Bama.

To win here, you've got to be the meanest bully on the block. Punch the other guy in the nose until you make him like it. We did that with JWS and Mullen. We didn't do that with Crxxm and now Mxxrhead.

I'll never forget something Mullen said right after we hired him: Paraphrased - "The most important coach on your team is the S&C coach. He spends more time with the team than anyone. If you don't place an emphasis on having an elite S&C coach, you're setting yourself up to lose." What do we have for an S&C coach now? We're soft and mentally weak. That comes from your coaching staff and largely from your S&C staff. It's time to clean house. And if you interview a coach and he doesn't mention S&C or demand money to hire a top notch S&C guy, you pass on him. I don't care if he gave you the world's greatest interview in everything else. It starts with S&C and toughness at MSU.

[War Machine Dawg]

Double post

[MetEdDawg]

It's not our job to know those things. It's the AD's job.

Every coach is a gamble but Moorhead is no longer a gamble. We know the outcome. Thus we MUST take another gamble.

So you don't have an answer? I think it's interesting that you and others crap on Cohen and yet have ZERO input on how they could have done a better job.

You can't give one single name?

[maroonmania]

Just throwing a name out there but Bill Clark seemed to be popular around here during the last search. He plays more of MSU type football and he has done great with a program with more disadvantages than any I know of plus he has ties with coaches in the area.

[RougeDawg]

Sherrill is one of the meanest toughest SOBs you will ever meet. Period. End of debate.

We just need a coach who knows how to adjust their system to the players they have. Not keep trying to force a round peg into a square hole. With the 2018 team, having a half brain dead person as HC and just kept running the system Mullen had in place and we win 10-11 games. It took actual work to win less games that that. I said it last year and got bashed for pointing out that SloMo was a net negative on the offense. I pointed out the data points and trends and said until I see a data point that shows that the trend is not declining, I?ll keep believing SloMo was the flop I clearly saw last year against Florida. All the signs were there that game, the nations number 1 defense just masked it.

We need to cut bait as soon as we can. I would can him tomorrow but our Pu$$ies in the Bryan building will probably give the clown 2020. If we do, get ready for the cellar another decade. SloMo has completely demolished everything that was built the last decade, in less than 2 seasons.

[Rex54]

To win here, you've got to be the meanest bully on the block. Punch the other guy in the nose until you make him like it. We did that with JWS and Mullen. We didn't do that with Croom and Moorhead.

Some years with Mullen. In others like Chris Wilson and Peter Sirmon our identity was bend don’t break finesse and we got boat raced by talented teams.

[Coursesuper]

Just throwing a name out there but Bill Clark seemed to be popular around here during the last search. He plays more of MSU type football and he has done great with a program with more disadvantages than any I know of plus he has ties with coaches in the area.

He would be a great hire for MSU.

[ShotgunDawg]

So you don't have an answer? I think it's interesting that you and others crap on Cohen and yet have ZERO input on how they could have done a better job.

You can't give one single name?

What a stupid comment. I can give you 100 names but I don't have access to these people to actually get to know them.

Are you asking me if I know what OCs out there have the right ingredients to be our head coach?

[Coursesuper]

So you don't have an answer? I think it's interesting that you and others crap on Cohen and yet have ZERO input on how they could have done a better job.

You can't give one single name?

John Cohen is a micromanager that was backdoored into the AD job. We are getting exactly what I feared when I heard what happened. Thanks too our prior AD and influential Bully Block alums we are saddled with our AD. Mississippi at its finest, can?t get out of our own way.

[coachnorm]

What kind of SOB are you talking about? Some SOBs are smart and some SOBs are stupid? In other words, hard assing players when a coach has a bad business plan is different when a coach has a good business plan?

[IMAREBL2 AND A DAWG]

At this point honestly I think it's difficult to know what we need from a coach.

Moorhead can recruit. Blue collar type background. Really smart according to everyone. But thus far unsuccessful.

Here's the question I have. When someone says home run for MSU, who do you think of? What's the perfect blend of coach we could get that screams home run hire?

Not I think he could do well. I want someone where you say "Yep that's the guy we all wanted that is gonna make the change we need". Who is that coach?

My concern is I don't see one that we can reasonably get. If you hold me down and I have to pick one I say Brent Venables. I'm not sure that's within reason, but that's the closest I can find. Possibly the best coordinator in college football. Tons of experience and success at multiple places. Could we give him $5 million for his salary and give him the money needed to get the assistants he wants?

That to me is the question. We can't have good assistants making lateral moves like Huff and Baker. We can't have that stuff happen anymore. Changing the coach to me does nothing until we change the culture of how important we place football compared to everyone else. We aren't going to compete until we open the pocketbook up.
I?ll give you $250 to take Luke and loan you my two sons to help him move in.

[KB21]

I think you have to take into account that the SEC is simply a different league with a different standard than the other leagues in college football. It’s a different animal, and a successful coach from the PAC 12 or Big 10 may not end up being successful in the SEC because he doesn’t know the landscape of SEC football.

So, looking for someone who has experience in the SEC may be something that you have to include. That’s not going to be a fail safe though. We could have hired Jeremy Pruitt, and I’m not sure we would be any better off. However, I think Pruitt is being set up to fail at Tennessee because of who their AD is.