I think starting Tommy Stevens is a bad idea

[Todd4State]

Especially in a must win game. It's decisions (potentially) like this that make fans doubt Joe Moorhead.

Now, I don't doubt that Stevens may look better in practice. However, in actual GAME situations- Shrader is better. Not to mention more durable.

And this is what I don't understand about football coaches. They tend to IMO overvalue practice performance- of course I'm assuming that there is no personal bias here on the part of the coach and "better in practice" is just simply coachspeak to explain to fans why certain not as productive players play over what appear to be to everyone in the stands more productive/better players. Because unless they letting fans in at practice how would we know right?

To me as a baseball fan that's sort of like starting a guy that's hitting below the Mendoza line and has a skillet for a glove because he looks great in batting practice. At some point actual in game performance should count- probably more- than practice. It seems to me like most football coaches don't get that. Which is odd to me. Why not put the players that are producing the most on the field?

So, if we start Stevens I don't really get it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Try to redshirt Shrader? Well, OK but odds are very high that Stevens is going to get hurt again. So, redshirting Shrader just seems so unlikely (but would be nice) at this point. It just seems to me the odds are very high that Stevens will fumble, get hurt or just not be productive and then here we are on the road down to Tennessee 14-0. Redshirting Shrader also seems kind of unnecessary because he's performing. Even if the offense is slightly more limited it's not affecting our production all that much really.

So- I don't really get it.

[defiantdog]

He'll be out after he gets hit the first time or falls

[RiverCityDawg]

You make some good points. Having time to think about this as well, it seems like a much higher risk for Joe to go with Tommy at this point. It has to be clear that the team and fans (for whatever thats worth) rally behind Shrader. If he goes with Tommy and we lose the outcry will be tremendous. On the other hand if we lose with Shrader it will still be bad but I feel like it won't be nearly as bad as long as we don't see the delay of game BS and other stupid mistakes.

With all that as the baseline and believing that Joe is a smart person with pretty decent awareness, it tells me if he starts Tommy that he truly believes it's clear that Tommy gives us the best chance to win. He has the pulse of the team better than us, so for him to take that gamble, it must not be a gamble in his mind. I don't see him giving any sort of favor to Tommy "just because". You can tell he loves Shrader and believes in him.

Based on his comments Monday I think both are going to play. Maybe he thinks Tommy will do well, but if not he can go to Shrader as a spark? It's extremely interesting to me because it does feel like a lot is riding on this one. I'm sure Joe feels it more than anyone.

[RC3]

First team Practice snaps are valuable, especially for a true freshman. I hate we are apparently splitting them

[Bama_Dawg]

I'm probably in the minority here, but if Stevens is 80+%, then I'd start and try to finish the game with him. I think at this point, he's still the better passer and has a better understanding of the offense. I do agree that Tommy has a high probability of getting hurt and if he goes, Tennessee will know that he's not a running threat. I think Kylin can pick up the slack there. For whatever reason I want to preserve that redshirt for Shrader if at all possible. H3ll, it may not be possible after the first drive, or next week, etc, but if we can get Shrader to RS, then our ceiling immediately rises for 2020-2022. Having a QB that has a mastery of the Moorhead offense, just like this year. Let's just try to stay healthy! I also think this is possible since we the OL was battle tested (and failed miserably) at Auburn. This to me will provide the foundation for improvements for this experienced group to get better. Let's be honest, its good to have a Tennessee defense for the offensive line to get better.

[Maroonthirteen]

First team Practice snaps are valuable, especially for a true freshman. I hate we are apparently splitting them

This ^^^^.

Shrader has earned the start. I know we are just Bobs but we can all see on the field during the games, Shrader has earned it. Time to move forward and build the program.

Also ..... even if the argument is Stevens passes the ball better and opens up the playbook.... Shrader is a bigger threat running the ball And can extend pass plays when he has to scramble. we need to run vs Tennessee.

Sincerely
Bob from BC

[Dawgology]

Especially in a must win game. It's decisions (potentially) like this that make fans doubt Joe Moorhead.

Now, I don't doubt that Stevens may look better in practice. However, in actual GAME situations- Shrader is better. Not to mention more durable.

And this is what I don't understand about football coaches. They tend to IMO overvalue practice performance- of course I'm assuming that there is no personal bias here on the part of the coach and "better in practice" is just simply coachspeak to explain to fans why certain not as productive players play over what appear to be to everyone in the stands more productive/better players. Because unless they letting fans in at practice how would we know right?

To me as a baseball fan that's sort of like starting a guy that's hitting below the Mendoza line and has a skillet for a glove because he looks great in batting practice. At some point actual in game performance should count- probably more- than practice. It seems to me like most football coaches don't get that. Which is odd to me. Why not put the players that are producing the most on the field?

So, if we start Stevens I don't really get it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Try to redshirt Shrader? Well, OK but odds are very high that Stevens is going to get hurt again. So, redshirting Shrader just seems so unlikely (but would be nice) at this point. It just seems to me the odds are very high that Stevens will fumble, get hurt or just not be productive and then here we are on the road down to Tennessee 14-0. Redshirting Shrader also seems kind of unnecessary because he's performing. Even if the offense is slightly more limited it's not affecting our production all that much really.

So- I don't really get it.

Agreed. I believe that if he starts Stevens and he looks like he did at the beginning of Auburn (poorly timed throws, poorly aimed throws, sluggish to get the ball snapped, quick three and outs) then we can really quickly fall behind on the road like we did against Auburn. If we give Tenn that spark of hope we could be in serious trouble. Even if he pulls Stevens after 2 series we could still be down 10-14 points early and not be able to catch up due to our defense.

I'm hoping like hell he doesn't start Stevens unless he is 110% healthy. I just think Stevens may be a little mentally wrecked after the injuries and poor game performances.

[Dawgology]

This ^^^^.

Shrader has earned the start. I know we are just Bobs but we can all see on the field during the games, Shrader has earned it. Time to move forward and build the program.

Also ..... even if the argument is Stevens passes the ball better and opens up the playbook.... Shrader is a bigger threat running the ball And can extend pass plays when he has to scramble. we need to run vs Tennessee.

Sincerely
Bob from BC

Incidentally, Tennessee has the 45th passing defense in the nation and the 76th rushing defense. It makes no sense to put your passing QB on the field when you have two explosive options as running the ball in Schrader combined with Hill. I'll be really dissappointed in Moorhead if he starts Stevens.

[dawgday166]

If Joe can't watch the film (which I do in slo-mo) and tell who the true warriors are on his team and who really adds value and can be depended on when game is tough ... then he's gonna struggle getting us anywhere close to greater than 8 regular season wins a year.

But hey, I'm Bob from Bogachitto and Joe has told me in in pretty plain terms what my expectations should be and I should be grateful at the job he is doing. He did that just recently and last year. Last year, should never expect to win more than 8 a year (4 in SEC). This year, he pointed out that we've only been 3-2 two times in last 17 or 18 years.

And I totally agree and get it. Losing to an above avg KY and FL teams last year, and a bottom of Big 12 KSU and a pretty good AU team this year is the same as:

2010 - Losing to LSU (played for Natty in 2011) and Natty Champs AU.
2011 - Losing to AU and SEC Champs/Natty Runnerup LSU (with one of the 2 best Ds in CFB in this century).
2013 - Losing to LSU and Natty Runner-up AU.
2015 - Losing to LSU by 2 pts and TAM at TAM.
2016 - Mullen took a sabbatical from coaching ... also has a roster full of sophs.
2017 - Losing to SEC W Champ AU and SEC Champ/Natty Runner-up GA - both away games and both teams would easily be favorites to win Natty this year --- they way better than any team in CFB this year (unless maybe OSU or Ok, haven't watched them much). And this with almost nothing but Jrs on 2-deep.

My expectations were set too high coming off of plane departure with phrases like rings, heismans, and championship standard thrown around ... and almost an entire team of what should have been a 10 game winner in 2017 coming back.

It's all good tho ... Joe has reset my expectations for me.

[gravedigger]

Especially in a must win game. It's decisions (potentially) like this that make fans doubt Joe Moorhead.

Now, I don't doubt that Stevens may look better in practice. However, in actual GAME situations- Shrader is better. Not to mention more durable.

And this is what I don't understand about football coaches. They tend to IMO overvalue practice performance- of course I'm assuming that there is no personal bias here on the part of the coach and "better in practice" is just simply coachspeak to explain to fans why certain not as productive players play over what appear to be to everyone in the stands more productive/better players. Because unless they letting fans in at practice how would we know right?

To me as a baseball fan that's sort of like starting a guy that's hitting below the Mendoza line and has a skillet for a glove because he looks great in batting practice. At some point actual in game performance should count- probably more- than practice. It seems to me like most football coaches don't get that. Which is odd to me. Why not put the players that are producing the most on the field?

So, if we start Stevens I don't really get it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Try to redshirt Shrader? Well, OK but odds are very high that Stevens is going to get hurt again. So, redshirting Shrader just seems so unlikely (but would be nice) at this point. It just seems to me the odds are very high that Stevens will fumble, get hurt or just not be productive and then here we are on the road down to Tennessee 14-0. Redshirting Shrader also seems kind of unnecessary because he's performing. Even if the offense is slightly more limited it's not affecting our production all that much really.

So- I don't really get it.

Could it be that Stevens practiced better this week due to Shrader being nicked up?

[msstate7]

Could be rainy Saturday, around 40%

[TrapGame]

Rosebowl on 620am a little while ago said it's about the deep ball. Shrader over threw a deep and wide open Guidry twice in the AU game. He spoke to Kylin yesterday and he told Rosebowl it will be run heavy b/c of the Vol's weak run D. Tommy is there for the deep threat when they have 8 in the box trying to stop Kylin.

[StarkVegasSteve]

If Tommy is healthy then you go with him. It's that simple. He's the much better passer and we need to pass on them to keep them from stacking the box on Kylin. I do believe that Shrader plays because at this point you've blown his RS so there's no reason to not find ways to get him on the field. Now, if Tommy is still nicked up and not 100% then you go with Garrett. At this point I'm going to default to Moorhead's decision on this one. He's basically hedging his future at State on Tommy if he starts him, so I'd hope he's healthy.

[chef dixon]

I do not trust his judgement when it comes to QBs

[RiverCityDawg]

If Joe can't watch the film (which I do in slo-mo) and tell who the true warriors are on his team and who really adds value and can be depended on when game is tough ... then he's gonna struggle getting us anywhere close to greater than 8 regular season wins a year.

But hey, I'm Bob from Bogachitto and Joe has told me in in pretty plain terms what my expectations should be and I should be grateful at the job he is doing. He did that just recently and last year. Last year, should never expect to win more than 8 a year (4 in SEC). This year, he pointed out that we've only been 3-2 two times in last 17 or 18 years.

And I totally agree and get it. Losing to an above avg KY and FL teams last year, and a bottom of Big 12 KSU and a pretty good AU team this year is the same as:

2010 - Losing to LSU (played for Natty in 2011) and Natty Champs AU.
2011 - Losing to AU and SEC Champs/Natty Runnerup LSU (with one of the 2 best Ds in CFB in this century).
2013 - Losing to LSU and Natty Runner-up AU.
2015 - Losing to LSU by 2 pts and TAM at TAM.
2016 - Mullen took a sabbatical from coaching ... also has a roster full of sophs.
2017 - Losing to SEC W Champ AU and SEC Champ/Natty Runner-up GA - both away games and both teams would easily be favorites to win Natty this year --- they way better than any team in CFB this year (unless maybe OSU or Ok, haven't watched them much). And this with almost nothing but Jrs on 2-deep.

My expectations were set too high coming off of plane departure with phrases like rings, heismans, and championship standard thrown around ... and almost an entire team of what should have been a 10 game winner in 2017 coming back.

It's all good tho ... Joe has reset my expectations for me.

Yes, please rehash the past for the 100000th time, beat the dead horse and ruin every discussion that isn't passive aggressively or just overtly trashing Joe. Thanks.

[AROB44]

I do not trust his judgement when it comes to QBs

I'll trust his judgement over message boards all day long....

[Lance Harbor]

Stevens is clearly the best QB on the roster. Start him.


Especially in a must win game. It's decisions (potentially) like this that make fans doubt Joe Moorhead.

Now, I don't doubt that Stevens may look better in practice. However, in actual GAME situations- Shrader is better. Not to mention more durable.

And this is what I don't understand about football coaches. They tend to IMO overvalue practice performance- of course I'm assuming that there is no personal bias here on the part of the coach and "better in practice" is just simply coachspeak to explain to fans why certain not as productive players play over what appear to be to everyone in the stands more productive/better players. Because unless they letting fans in at practice how would we know right?

To me as a baseball fan that's sort of like starting a guy that's hitting below the Mendoza line and has a skillet for a glove because he looks great in batting practice. At some point actual in game performance should count- probably more- than practice. It seems to me like most football coaches don't get that. Which is odd to me. Why not put the players that are producing the most on the field?

So, if we start Stevens I don't really get it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Try to redshirt Shrader? Well, OK but odds are very high that Stevens is going to get hurt again. So, redshirting Shrader just seems so unlikely (but would be nice) at this point. It just seems to me the odds are very high that Stevens will fumble, get hurt or just not be productive and then here we are on the road down to Tennessee 14-0. Redshirting Shrader also seems kind of unnecessary because he's performing. Even if the offense is slightly more limited it's not affecting our production all that much really.

So- I don't really get it.

[Ari Gold]

I do not trust his judgement when it comes to QBs

Well if Joe wasn?t the HC here the option would be more simple. We wouldn?t have Tommy or Garrett to choose from

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I do believe that Shrader plays because at this point you've blown his RS so there's no reason to not find ways to get him on the field.m.

Shrader could still RS if he didn't play anymore this season.

[Cooterpoot]

If Shrader had beaten AU then I’d go with him. But Stevens has been ahead of him all season and off-season. You start him and if he struggles you pull him. We can do way more in the passing game with Stevens.

[MadDawg]

Especially in a must win game. It's decisions (potentially) like this that make fans doubt Joe Moorhead.

Or not.

[Bothrops]

First off, I'm not sure Stevens is hurt at all anymore. Second, we need to see if a vertical passing game is still possible in this year's offense. Shrader seems actually banged up and if we can produce without giving too many snaps to him this week we should do that. However, we are about to see whether or not Stevens will be able to contribute anymore this year.

[Dawgology]

If Shrader had beaten AU then I’d go with him. But Stevens has been ahead of him all season and off-season. You start him and if he struggles you pull him. We can do way more in the passing game with Stevens.

Currently Schrader has the 14th highest total quarterback rating in all of college football on ESPN. Stevens isn't in the top 150. Schraders longest completion is 47 yrds, Stevens 35. Schrader has thrown for 511 yds, Stevens 448, Schrader has run for 312, Stevens 26...26 yards. Schrader has thrown for 2 TD's, Stevens for 5 td's. Schrader sacked 4 times to Stevens 7. They have both run for 2 TD's. Schrader has a slightly lower completion percentage at 59% to Stevens 64%.

I wouldn't call Stevens "ahead" of Schrader. I would say Schrader has outperformed him on the field as a freshman.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Shrader could still RS if he didn't play anymore this season.

Have you heard anything about the chances of KT being available as a backup (or in any capacity, I guess) in the second half of the season? Because if preserving Shrader's RS is even on Moorhead's radar, I'd have to assume that KT must be the backup if Stevens goes down, right?

On the larger topic at hand, I'm glad I don't have to make this call. Assuming -- and it's a big assumption -- that both are completely healthy, I'd be torn. I love the way Shrader plays -- the running, the quickness, the improvisation, etc. But Stevens has to know the offense far better than him and seems to have demonstrated more accuracy, both on short and deep balls, than Shrader (which makes sense given their respective experience levels). Stevens' durability is obviously a question, though. Tennessee has thus far been mediocre-to-below-average at sacking people (last in SEC in total sacks, though close to 60th percentile nationally at sack rate), so maybe he wouldn't risk as many hits as in other games? I don't know . . . .

As for UT's defense being more susceptible to the run or the pass, I think we should be in a position to choose either. If you take out their game against the FCS team they played, they're just as bad against the run as we've been -- last in the SEC in TFLs, 10th in the SEC in YPC allowed, and bottom quarter nationally in advanced DL stats (line yards allowed, stuff rate, etc.). On the other hand, they're also 13th or 14th in the SEC in opponents' QB rating, completion %, and yards per passing attempt.

Given that they're not so hot all the way around, I assume we'll default to the run game like we have most of the season.

[msstate7]

Have you heard anything about the chances of KT being available as a backup (or in any capacity, I guess) in the second half of the season? Because if preserving Shrader's RS is even on Moorhead's radar, I'd have to assume that KT must be the backup if Stevens goes down, right?

On the larger topic at hand, I'm glad I don't have to make this call. Assuming -- and it's a big assumption -- that both are completely healthy, I'd be torn. I love the way Shrader plays -- the running, the quickness, the improvisation, etc. But Stevens has to know the offense far better than him and seems to have demonstrated more accuracy, both on short and deep balls, than Shrader (which makes sense given their respective experience levels). Stevens' durability is obviously a question, though. Tennessee has thus far been mediocre-to-below-average at sacking people (last in SEC in total sacks, though close to 60th percentile nationally at sack rate), so maybe he wouldn't risk as many hits as in other games? I don't know . . . .

As for UT's defense being more susceptible to the run or the pass, I think we should be in a position to choose either. If you take out their game against the FCS team they played, they're just as bad against the run as we've been -- last in the SEC in TFLs, 10th in the SEC in YPC allowed, and bottom quarter nationally in advanced DL stats (line yards allowed, stuff rate, etc.). On the other hand, they're also 13th or 14th in the SEC in opponents' QB rating, completion %, and yards per passing attempt.

Given that they're not so hot all the way around, I assume we'll default to the run game like we have most of the season.

We actually allow a worse qb rating, yds/play, and yards/carry than they do. We're 13th in TFLs in sec, and like you said, they're 14th. This is a matchup of 2 really bad defenses

[confucius say]

We actually allow a worse qb rating, yds/play, and yards/carry than they do. We're 13th in TFLs in sec, and like you said, they're 14th. This is a matchup of 2 really bad defenses

Our defense, while still not good, becomes better with gay and autry though. I?m hoping that makes a difference Saturday.

[confucius say]

Currently Schrader has the 14th highest total quarterback rating in all of college football on ESPN. Stevens isn't in the top 150. Schraders longest completion is 47 yrds, Stevens 35. Schrader has thrown for 511 yds, Stevens 448, Schrader has run for 312, Stevens 26...26 yards. Schrader has thrown for 2 TD's, Stevens for 5 td's. Schrader sacked 4 times to Stevens 7. They have both run for 2 TD's. Schrader has a slightly lower completion percentage at 59% to Stevens 64%.

I wouldn't call Stevens "ahead" of Schrader. I would say Schrader has outperformed him on the field as a freshman.

Tommys qb efficiency is way higher than GS though, 150 to 128. I think that is because qbr includes rushing and the efficiency ranking, which is just a passer rating, does not.

So I think a lot of it depends on if you want to pound it with GS and Kylin, or run Kylin and throw it around with Tommy. I think Joe picks the latter.

[Prediction? Pain.]

We actually allow a worse qb rating, yds/play, and yards/carry than they do. We're 13th in TFLs in sec, and like you said, they're 14th. This is a matchup of 2 really bad defenses

Oh most definitely. Our defense hasn't been good either. (Though I think you mixed up the QB rating stat. I was looking at FBS games only. Discounting FCS games, we're 9th in SEC in opponent's QB rating, they're 13th. Go us!)


Our defense, while still not good, becomes better with gay and autry though. I?m hoping that makes a difference Saturday.

I also agree with this. Hopefully Gay, Autry, and Murhphy's availability with make an appreciable difference this weekend.

[Coach34]

Have you heard anything about the chances of KT being available as a backup (or in any capacity, I guess) in the second half of the season? Because if preserving Shrader's RS is even on Moorhead's radar, I'd have to assume that KT must be the backup if Stevens goes down, right? .

I've heard that KT will not play another play in maroon and white. We'll see if thats true

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I've heard that KT will not play another play in maroon and white. We'll see if thats true

It would have to be a situation where both Stevens & Shrader are unavailable.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I've heard that KT will not play another play in maroon and white. We'll see if thats true


It would have to be a situation where both Stevens & Shrader are unavailable.

Thanks for the info, guys. If that's the case, then the long-shot chance of preserving Shrader's redshirt is irrelevant.

[Jack Lambert]

I've heard that KT will not play another play in maroon and white. We'll see if thats true

I kind of figured they were saving him for the last four games. Oh Well. He will not be at Miss State next season. He probably wouldn't have been here this season if he could have found a place to go.

[Red Sox Dawg]

Maybe we are going to pound Kylin and sling it around with Tommy, and put Shrader in to just run it down their throats...if we can. Two QB game plan. Whatever, Coach may go with the hot QB after playing both based on success of the offense. I think Shrader's redshirt is off.

[Liverpooldawg]

Well if Joe wasn?t the HC here the option would be more simple. We wouldn?t have Tommy or Garrett to choose from

Exactly and PRACTICE PERFORMANCE DOES MATTER. People that think it doesn't know absolutely nothing about sports.

[Liverpooldawg]

It would have to be a situation where both Stevens & Shrader are unavailable.

That's the only reason to even think about it. He quit on the team once, and will almost certainly transfer after the season.

[Lord McBuckethead]

If Tommy is healthy then you go with him. It's that simple. He's the much better passer and we need to pass on them to keep them from stacking the box on Kylin. I do believe that Shrader plays because at this point you've blown his RS so there's no reason to not find ways to get him on the field. Now, if Tommy is still nicked up and not 100% then you go with Garrett. At this point I'm going to default to Moorhead's decision on this one. He's basically hedging his future at State on Tommy if he starts him, so I'd hope he's healthy.

Bingo. You guys act like Tommy is terrible. Tommy can make us a very difficult team to beat. Just give him a game to get into the flow. If he is healthy, let him have the ball. I want someone out there that is well versed in defenses and our system that can hit the long ball. Shrader also needs to play as a quick change on offense. I would play both, but Tommy would be the #1 if he is good to go.

[Saltydog]

Allan Iverson disagrees. Practice man, we talkin' 'bout practice...........

[StarkVegasSteve]

Our defense, while still not good, becomes better with gay and autry though. I?m hoping that makes a difference Saturday.

Our defense is night and day with Willie Gay out there. His athleticism and quickness essentially makes him another DB on pass plays and no one can block him on run plays because of that said quickness and athleticism. A stupid decision is going to cost him being a first round pick in this year's draft. He reminds me of Myles Jack who came out of UCLA a few years ago. And I think Willie could do the same thing Jack did if we stuck him on offense.

[Cooterpoot]

Currently Schrader has the 14th highest total quarterback rating in all of college football on ESPN. Stevens isn't in the top 150. Schraders longest completion is 47 yrds, Stevens 35. Schrader has thrown for 511 yds, Stevens 448, Schrader has run for 312, Stevens 26...26 yards. Schrader has thrown for 2 TD's, Stevens for 5 td's. Schrader sacked 4 times to Stevens 7. They have both run for 2 TD's. Schrader has a slightly lower completion percentage at 59% to Stevens 64%.

I wouldn't call Stevens "ahead" of Schrader. I would say Schrader has outperformed him on the field as a freshman.

Shrader struggles with the deep ball and accuracy. Stevens is ahead of him throwing the ball.

[fishwater99]

If Shrader had beaten AU then I?d go with him. But Stevens has been ahead of him all season and off-season. You start him and if he struggles you pull him. We can do way more in the passing game with Stevens.

Wasn't his fault we lost to Auburn. He played his ass off. Joe did not have the team ready at all.

[Cooterpoot]

Wasn't his fault we lost to Auburn. He played his ass off. Joe did not have the team ready at all.

Did I say it was? I was just saying had he come in and won, he’d be starting. This stupid idea that Stevens sucks all of a sudden is pretty pathetic. He’s injury prone, no doubt. But he was playing well before he got hurt. I’m sure the hook will be quick if he’s not sharp. Jo knows he’s got to win this week.

[R2Dawg]

He'll be out after he gets hit the first time or falls

And this would be the issue. We would waste a quarter or 2-3 series and fall behind because of the decision like KSU. I don't think TS is healthy enough yet; not to mention all the other stuff.

[Coach34]

And this would be the issue. We would waste a quarter or 2-3 series and fall behind because of the decision like KSU. I don't think TS is healthy enough yet; not to mention all the other stuff.

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.

[Maroonthirteen]

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.


As a coach, would you start a player next game that took themselves out of the prior game?

[Commercecomet24]

Shrader struggles with the deep ball and accuracy. Stevens is ahead of him throwing the ball.

Man I'm really torn. I like em both but obviously Shrader is more durable and a better runner. Tommy makes throws that Garret can't make yet. That throw Tommy made to Osirus at the end of the first half of the KSU game was a dime and throw Garret can't make just yet. We really have 2 fine QBs that can both play. The question with Tommy is can he stay on the field.

[Coach34]

As a coach, would you start a player next game that took themselves out of the prior game?

I wouldnt even consider it.

[Dawgology]

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.

That's what I thought to. And that's also one of the reasons I think Schrader should start. Stevens isn't build for big boy football and (win or lose) Tenn is big boy football.

[msbulldog]

Well if Joe wasn?t the HC here the option would be more simple. We wouldn?t have Tommy or Garrett to choose from

Amen.

[Percho]

Especially in a must win game. It's decisions (potentially) like this that make fans doubt Joe Moorhead.

Now, I don't doubt that Stevens may look better in practice. However, in actual GAME situations- Shrader is better. Not to mention more durable.

And this is what I don't understand about football coaches. They tend to IMO overvalue practice performance- of course I'm assuming that there is no personal bias here on the part of the coach and "better in practice" is just simply coachspeak to explain to fans why certain not as productive players play over what appear to be to everyone in the stands more productive/better players. Because unless they letting fans in at practice how would we know right?

To me as a baseball fan that's sort of like starting a guy that's hitting below the Mendoza line and has a skillet for a glove because he looks great in batting practice. At some point actual in game performance should count- probably more- than practice. It seems to me like most football coaches don't get that. Which is odd to me. Why not put the players that are producing the most on the field?

So, if we start Stevens I don't really get it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Try to redshirt Shrader? Well, OK but odds are very high that Stevens is going to get hurt again. So, redshirting Shrader just seems so unlikely (but would be nice) at this point. It just seems to me the odds are very high that Stevens will fumble, get hurt or just not be productive and then here we are on the road down to Tennessee 14-0. Redshirting Shrader also seems kind of unnecessary because he's performing. Even if the offense is slightly more limited it's not affecting our production all that much really.

So- I don't really get it.

Pretend, you, are the head coach at Mississippi State. Do you think you should do what the fans think is the correct thing to do or what you, the HC, thinks is the correct thing to do?

You have been at practice all week. What would you do?

[confucius say]

Yes, lets start the narrative that our starting qb is able to play but takes himself out of games bc he doesn?t want to play anymore, all the while ignoring the fact that he if he didnt want to play he had the choice to not dress at all claiming he was not healthy.

Our fans.

[MadDawg]

Yes, lets start the narrative that our starting qb is able to play but takes himself out of games bc he doesn?t want to play anymore, all the while ignoring the fact that he if he didnt want to play he had the choice to not dress at all claiming he was not healthy.

Our fans.

We can make the facts fit any narrative we want. We are awesome like that.

[Dawgbite]

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.

I was sitting on the second row right behind our bench, his ankle was hurt. Every time he tried to plant that foot his ankle would just roll and buckle. The trainers worked on him awhile and retaped it , he tried to loosen it up by jogging and throwing a little but the ankle wouldn't support his weight. I'm more concerned about the shoulder than the leg, an ankle will get better every day but a shoulder will linger forever.

[sleepy dawg]

Rosebowl on 620am a little while ago said it's about the deep ball. Shrader over threw a deep and wide open Guidry twice in the AU game. He spoke to Kylin yesterday and he told Rosebowl it will be run heavy b/c of the Vol's weak run D. Tommy is there for the deep threat when they have 8 in the box trying to stop Kylin.

Same result as if he didn't over throw him. It's not like he can catch a ball anyway.

[TrapGame]

Same result as if he didn't over throw him. It's not like he can catch a ball anyway.

True, but he didn't get a chance to catch it. If Shrader had not overthrown him and he just dropped it that's completely different.

[Tbonewannabe]

I was sitting on the second row right behind our bench, his ankle was hurt. Every time he tried to plant that foot his ankle would just roll and buckle. The trainers worked on him awhile and retaped it , he tried to loosen it up by jogging and throwing a little but the ankle wouldn't support his weight. I'm more concerned about the shoulder than the leg, an ankle will get better every day but a shoulder will linger forever.

Can't have you destroying the narrative that Tommy is just a loser that gives up.

[Todd4State]

Pretend, you, are the head coach at Mississippi State. Do you think you should do what the fans think is the correct thing to do or what you, the HC, thinks is the correct thing to do?

You have been at practice all week. What would you do?

I would play the player that has been the most productive in games. That’s clearly Shrader and that to me would be the correct thing to do.

[Coach34]

Everybody saw the look on his face when he took the field and after the sack. He didn’t want anymore of Auburn. Playing Tennessee is a whole different animal and not near the task Auburn is. This stuff is t hard to figure out.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's incredible to me that this is even a debate.

It's like some of you don't watch the damn games.

The offense is clearly better & has an identity with Shrader that it lacks with Stevens.

Fair or not, it's Joe's job to win football games, not to appease Tommy Stevens.

I'll lose a good bit of respect for JoMo as a decision maker if he starts Stevens Saturday over a healthy Shrader.

[Dawgbite]

Can't have you destroying the narrative that Tommy is just a loser that gives up.

Forgive me Father for I have sinned. Must.
Follow.
The.
Herd.
Off.
The.
C
L
I
F
F.

[confucius say]

Everybody saw the look on his face when he took the field and after the sack. He didn’t want anymore of Auburn. Playing Tennessee is a whole different animal and not near the task Auburn is. This stuff is t hard to figure out.

Then why did he dress at all?

Are you saying he did not realize how good and physical auburn was until he ?took the field?? And therefore, it was then that he decided he did not want to play anymore?

[confucius say]

It's incredible to me that this is even a debate.

It's like some of you don't watch the damn games.

The offense is clearly better & has an identity with Shrader that it lacks with Stevens.

Fair or not, it's Joe's job to win football games, not to appease Tommy Stevens.

I'll lose a good bit of respect for JoMo as a decision maker if he starts Stevens Saturday over a healthy Shrader.

The smoothest our offense has looked (and the most productive, statistically) has been the first six quarters of the season.

The question to me is can TS stay healthy? If he cannot, then yea go ahead and go GS.

[GoDawgz]

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.

Exactly! He didnt want anymore is exactly what I was thinking after seeing him on the sidelines. He started the game with eyes so big you could see the back of his skull. He was overwhelmed!
While Schrader is a freshman, the kid seems to be unflappable and is tough as nails. You got to love that about him and his future!
I would love to know what Schrader said to the lady in the stands after scoring the TD at Auburn..... whatever it was made her and the ones around her laugh.

[ShotgunDawg]

The smoothest our offense has looked (and the most productive, statistically) has been the first six quarters of the season.

The question to me is can TS stay healthy? If he cannot, then yea go ahead and go GS.

I don't agree with this.

I think Shrader against much tougher defenses has made the offense look smooth.

Maybe I just like our offensive identity under Shrader a lot more. The running lanes seem much larger & we are way more physical

[justwin]

much more concerned about starting guidry than who starts at qb. it's time to turn the page, he let up on the post, dropped the 3rd down when tommy got hurt because he chose to hold onto ball one hand, dam near kicked around the td catch due to trying to hush the crowd. go with zuber, austin, osirus, deddrick, payton, farrod, dontae here on out. maybe mix in cumbest, whop.

either tommy or shrader is fine. they're both good & winners. zuber or osirus or austin need to be our primary wr targets as they know how to find space and catch, not guidry

[confucius say]

I don't agree with this.

I think Shrader against much tougher defenses has made the offense look smooth.

Maybe I just like our offensive identity under Shrader a lot more. The running lanes seem much larger & we are way more physical

I agree with you on the running lanes. And I think you are like most of our fans, self included, who are just use to our identity being a physical, run based attack with the qb run game as a huge component, if not the primary component.

But that is not what who we are anymore, for better or worse. Or at least not what joe will have us strive to be.

I think we are struggling with that as a fan base. But TS was 29-39 for 330 yards and 5 TD before he got hurt vs USM, so there is hope at least.

[NCDawg]

Exactly! He didnt want anymore is exactly what I was thinking after seeing him on the sidelines. He started the game with eyes so big you could see the back of his skull. He was overwhelmed!
While Schrader is a freshman, the kid seems to be unflappable and is tough as nails. You got to love that about him and his future!
I would love to know what Schrader said to the lady in the stands after scoring the TD at Auburn..... whatever it was made her and the ones around her laugh.

I'm not sure it's all Stevens' fault. Moorhead apparently had no idea Auburn was going to bring the house on the first couple of plays, leaving Stevens with little or no protection-causing him to get hurt.

[RezDog7]

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.

I guess you missed the 300lb defensive lineman rolling up on his leg. You're basically calling him a puss, yet I bet you didn't play past junior high. Get out of here with your weak ass takes.

[RezDog7]

It's incredible to me that this is even a debate.

It's like some of you don't watch the damn games.

The offense is clearly better & has an identity with Shrader that it lacks with Stevens.

Fair or not, it's Joe's job to win football games, not to appease Tommy Stevens.

I'll lose a good bit of respect for JoMo as a decision maker if he starts Stevens Saturday over a healthy Shrader.

Shrader isn't healthy. But it doesn't matter, you will freak out as soon as we get a penalty or TS throws an incomplete pass.

[Jack Lambert]

I'm not sure it's all Stevens' fault. Moorhead apparently had no idea Auburn was going to bring the house on the first couple of plays, leaving Stevens with little or no protection-causing him to get hurt.

Your perspective of the obvious is amazing.

[confucius say]

I guess you missed the 300lb defensive lineman rolling up on his leg. You're basically calling him a puss, yet I bet you didn't play past junior high. Get out of here with your weak ass takes.

It is clear watching the replay his leg got rolled up.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree with you on the running lanes. And I think you are like most of our fans, self included, who are just use to our identity being a physical, run based attack with the qb run game as a huge component, if not the primary component.

But that is not what who we are anymore, for better or worse. Or at least not what joe will have us strive to be.

I think we are struggling with that as a fan base. But TS was 29-39 for 330 yards and 5 TD before he got hurt vs USM, so there is hope at least.

Whole take is spot on. Rep given.

[RezDog7]

I absolutely love Shrader and the way he plays. It's obvious that there are positives and negatives to each QB's game; however, "I believe" that Stevens gives us the best chance to win more games this year. Being able to throw the ball around will open up more lanes for Hill. A good running QB will definitely help win games, but a good defense can and will shut that down.

[MadDawg]

Sounds to me a lot of y'all really wish we had Fitzgerald back. Which is fine and all, I liked Nick, but damn all I heard last year was how we needed someone who can throw the ball.

[Todd4State]

Sounds to me a lot of y'all really wish we had Fitzgerald back. Which is fine and all, I liked Nick, but damn all I heard last year was how we needed someone who can throw the ball.

Shrader can pass the ball as well as run. Which is what I want. He was almost perfect against Kentucky.

[sleepy dawg]

I think Tommy is scared to death out there against physical teams. I'm sure Tommy lights it up in practice with his no-contact jersey on, but that's not game like. I don't have any doubt that Tommy throws the better ball, but you can't trust a guy who has the fear and whose throwing shoulder is hurt... I obviously can't say for certain that Tommy is hurt in anyway or is scared in anyway, but in the past few games, there have been strong indications of both... I don't long for Fitzgerald and that style of offense. I just want us to look competent no matter which way we're doing it.

[confucius say]

Shrader can pass the ball as well as run. Which is what I want. He was almost perfect against Kentucky.

I think GS completion percentage is identical to fitz last year. I think. I do believe GS will be a better passer than Fitz.

I agree we need the qb to run and I wish TS would do more of that. He seems too reluctant to run imo.

[99jc]

We could start Tom Brady and not win this game!

[Bothrops]

We could start Tom Brady and not win this game!

We're winning the game dude.

[Todd4State]

I think GS completion percentage is identical to fitz last year. I think. I do believe GS will be a better passer than Fitz.

I agree we need the qb to run and I wish TS would do more of that. He seems too reluctant to run imo.

Shrader is at 59% on the year and Fitz was at 52% last year. And Shrader had a really dismal game passing the ball against K-State bringing his stats down.

And of course Shrader gets more of a pass from me since he is a true freshman. He likely will improve.

[Commercecomet24]

Sounds to me a lot of y'all really wish we had Fitzgerald back. Which is fine and all, I liked Nick, but damn all I heard last year was how we needed someone who can throw the ball.

Our fanbase is at a quandary.We want someone who can run like Fitz and throw like Tua. We know to beat elite teams we have to throw the ball. We also want our team to be physical and just run the ball(even though we've done that for years) and hasn't brought us the big success we all want. When we throw it some folks say we're finesse and soft yet when we keep trying to run against elite defenses and it doesn't work it's a bad game plan. In 2015 when we threw the ball more with Dak some folks said we had become a soft and finesse team. The real key is continuing to recruit better players and be able to matchup more closely in talent with elite teams. Our talent level has risen in the last 10 years and we're getting closer. Then you have to have a coach that can game plan both run and pass and make necessary adjustments against elite defenses. Yes I think this is what every fanbase outside of 4-5 cfb teams want their teams to be. We're kind of at crossroads, we really don't want to give up the ol 3 yards and a cloud of dust physical offense but know we have to at some point. The next few years are going to be interesting for sure. Let's hope we can find some balance. The answer is out there. Shrader can perhaps bring some balance to the force lol.

[Todd4State]

Our fanbase is at a quandary.We want someone who can run like Fitz and throw like Tua. We know to beat elite teams we have to throw the ball. We also want our team to be physical and just run the ball(even though we've done that for years) and hasn't brought us the big success we all want. When we throw it some folks say we're finesse and soft yet when we keep trying to run against elite defenses and it doesn't work it's a bad game plan. In 2015 when we threw the ball more with Dak some folks said we had become a soft and finesse team. The real key is continuing to recruit better players and be able to matchup more closely in talent with elite teams. Our talent level has risen in the last 10 years and we're getting closer. Then you have to have a coach that can game plan both run and pass and make necessary adjustments against elite defenses. Yes I think this is what every fanbase outside of 4-5 cfb teams want their teams to be. We're kind of at crossroads, we really don't want to give up the ol 3 yards and a cloud of dust physical offense but know we have to at some point. The next few years are going to be interesting for sure. Let's hope we can find some balance. The answer is out there. Shrader can perhaps bring some balance to the force lol.

You?re 110% right.

[confucius say]

Shrader is at 59% on the year and Fitz was at 52% last year. And Shrader had a really dismal game passing the ball against K-State bringing his stats down.

And of course Shrader gets more of a pass from me since he is a true freshman. He likely will improve.

Ahh. I thought fitz was 58 percent.

[WSOPdawg]

If Joe can't watch the film (which I do in slo-mo) and tell who the true warriors are on his team and who really adds value and can be depended on when game is tough ... then he's gonna struggle getting us anywhere close to greater than 8 regular season wins a year.

But hey, I'm Bob from Bogachitto and Joe has told me in in pretty plain terms what my expectations should be and I should be grateful at the job he is doing. He did that just recently and last year. Last year, should never expect to win more than 8 a year (4 in SEC). This year, he pointed out that we've only been 3-2 two times in last 17 or 18 years.

And I totally agree and get it. Losing to an above avg KY and FL teams last year, and a bottom of Big 12 KSU and a pretty good AU team this year is the same as:

2010 - Losing to LSU (played for Natty in 2011) and Natty Champs AU.
2011 - Losing to AU and SEC Champs/Natty Runnerup LSU (with one of the 2 best Ds in CFB in this century).
2013 - Losing to LSU and Natty Runner-up AU.
2015 - Losing to LSU by 2 pts and TAM at TAM.
2016 - Mullen took a sabbatical from coaching ... also has a roster full of sophs.
2017 - Losing to SEC W Champ AU and SEC Champ/Natty Runner-up GA - both away games and both teams would easily be favorites to win Natty this year --- they way better than any team in CFB this year (unless maybe OSU or Ok, haven't watched them much). And this with almost nothing but Jrs on 2-deep.

My expectations were set too high coming off of plane departure with phrases like rings, heismans, and championship standard thrown around ... and almost an entire team of what should have been a 10 game winner in 2017 coming back.

It's all good tho ... Joe has reset my expectations for me.

Rep given, b/c I'm right there with you... unfortunately.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think his health is fine. I dont think he was hurt enough to come out of the Auburn game. He simply didnt want anymore. He was in a boot walking around during the 2nd half and has had 2 weeks off. Kelly Bryant was on crutches during the 2nd half last week vs Troy and is expected to be ready to play 1 week later.

Interesting diagnosis Doctor. Also an interesting use, to say the least, of dubious telemedicine. Its not just watching 5 seconds of ESPN you know.

[Liverpooldawg]

Here is the bottom line: To win like we want to win in today's SEC we are going to have to be able to throw, AND CATCH, the ball down field. That's how you get room to run when you don't have elite speed at WR, which we aren't likely to have very often. You can get open without elite speed. You aren't going to loosen defenses up much with a short passing game unless the guys catching it are burners. Whoever can do those things is who needs to be playing.

[Todd4State]

Ahh. I thought fitz was 58 percent.

If Fitz was at 58% last year I would have been more OK with him.

[Todd4State]

Here is the bottom line: To win like we want to win in today's SEC we are going to have to be able to throw, AND CATCH, the ball down field. That's how you get room to run when you don't have elite speed at WR, which we aren't likely to have very often. You can get open without elite speed. You aren't going to loosen defenses up much with a short passing game unless the guys catching it are burners. Whoever can do those things is who needs to be playing.

Wow. I agree.

[Liverpooldawg]

Wow. I agree.

It would also help if we could stop the run.

[ShotgunDawg]

Here is the bottom line: To win like we want to win in today's SEC we are going to have to be able to throw, AND CATCH, the ball down field. That's how you get room to run when you don't have elite speed at WR, which we aren't likely to have very often. You can get open without elite speed. You aren't going to loosen defenses up much with a short passing game unless the guys catching it are burners. Whoever can do those things is who needs to be playing.

I've seen nothing from Shrader that indicates he can't do the.

[Todd4State]

It would also help if we could stop the run.

No doubt. We have to find a way to marry being able to run and pass the ball with a good defense. Something that I’m not sure we have ever really done. But I’m also not sure how hard we tried to do all three either with run first and run focused coaches. Or like in 2014 our defense was average even though we could run and pass.

[Liverpooldawg]

I've seen nothing from Shrader that indicates he can't do the.

I haven't seen anything that shows he can either. Y'all are arguing this on flimsy evidence to say the least. I honestly don't know and think the jury is very much out. I'd say PRACTICE might be rather important to this one. I'd play them both myself, for now, provided they are healthy. Word is they are BOTH banged up. You play the heathiest one in that case. BOTH are better than KT at passing so that ain't even relevant unless they are seriously hurt.

[Commercecomet24]

No doubt. We have to find a way to marry being able to run and pass the ball with a good defense. Something that I’m not sure we have ever really done. But I’m also not sure how hard we tried to do all three either with run first and run focused coaches. Or like in 2014 our defense was average even though we could run and pass.

Good points. Yeah we've always seemed to have parts of the puzzle but never all the pieces.

[Liverpooldawg]

No doubt. We have to find a way to marry being able to run and pass the ball with a good defense. Something that I’m not sure we have ever really done. But I’m also not sure how hard we tried to do all three either with run first and run focused coaches. Or like in 2014 our defense was average even though we could run and pass.

People that say we can't win it all need to take note of this: Marry the 2014 offense with the 2018 defense and we win a national title, ONE coach who wasn't that great at recruiting, recruited both of those units. That 2014 offense wasn't loaded with highly recruited talent either. Last year's defense only had a couple of true blue chips when they were recruited. It CAN be done. Heck marry the 2015 offense with 2018 D and we win it. That's THREE years apart. There were guys that played on BOTH of those teams. All this gloom and doom is OLD MSU. Support Joe PUBLICALLY (which ABSOLUTELY includes online) right up until the trigger is pulled, hopefully it never will be. This trying to be the first one off the bandwagon so you can say I TOLD YOU SO is one of the many reasons we always were where we were. IT IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF OLD MSU FANDOM. Blasting the coach early on only hurts the program. If he is going to fail, he will fail. Don't make it harder on him than it already is.

[RezDog7]

People that say we can't win it all need to take note of this: Marry the 2014 offense with the 2018 defense and we win a national title, ONE coach who wasn't that great at recruiting, recruited both of those units. That 2014 offense wasn't loaded with highly recruited talent either. Last year's defense only had a couple of true blue chips when they were recruited. It CAN be done. Heck marry the 2015 offense with 2018 D and we win it. That's THREE years apart. There were guys that played on BOTH of those teams. All this gloom and doom is OLD MSU. Support Joe PUBLICALLY (which ABSOLUTELY includes online) right up until the trigger is pulled, hopefully it never will be. This trying to be the first one off the bandwagon so you can say I TOLD YOU SO is one of the many reasons we always were where we were. IT IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF OLD MSU FANDOM. Blasting the coach early on only hurts the program. If he is going to fail, he will fail. Don't make it harder on him than it already is.

Spot on. A split and divided fan base will only bring down everything that everyone has worked so hard to build. Time will tell if JoMo is the right guy, but 18 games damn sure is t enough time. Some of you act like he hasn't won a game yet. I mean, we could be AR and TN. How often do auburn fans want the Gus bus fired. They have stuck with him and he's still winning.

[Commercecomet24]

People that say we can't win it all need to take note of this: Marry the 2014 offense with the 2018 defense and we win a national title, ONE coach who wasn't that great at recruiting, recruited both of those units. That 2014 offense wasn't loaded with highly recruited talent either. Last year's defense only had a couple of true blue chips when they were recruited. It CAN be done. Heck marry the 2015 offense with 2018 D and we win it. That's THREE years apart. There were guys that played on BOTH of those teams. All this gloom and doom is OLD MSU. Support Joe PUBLICALLY (which ABSOLUTELY includes online) right up until the trigger is pulled, hopefully it never will be. This trying to be the first one off the bandwagon so you can say I TOLD YOU SO is one of the many reasons we always were where we were. IT IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF OLD MSU FANDOM. Blasting the coach early on only hurts the program. If he is going to fail, he will fail. Don't make it harder on him than it already is.

Heck yeah! We're in a much better place than we've ever been, let's just keep progressing

[ShotgunDawg]

Why have we had 3 QBs hurt this year?

How have Stevens, Shrader, & KT all gotten banged ?

Extremely odd to have that many injuries at QB

[R2Dawg]

Pretend, you, are the head coach at Mississippi State. Do you think you should do what the fans think is the correct thing to do or what you, the HC, thinks is the correct thing to do?

You have been at practice all week. What would you do?

True and that is his right as HC however fans have seen the fallout of his poor decisions the past 1.5 years and when he did listen last year finally, guess what we won a few big games. When he did his thing, we sucked. Don't have to be a HC to see what happens on Saturdays every week.

[HoopsDawg]

2 things need to happen: Shrader redshirts or Shrader starts every game. Any other outcome is poor.

[Liverpooldawg]

Why have we had 3 QBs hurt this year?

How have Stevens, Shrader, & KT all gotten banged ?

Extremely odd to have that many injuries at QB

Florida says hello. And KT is hurt? Paper cut from mailing out paper work to the transfer portal?

[timotheus]

KT is about as injured as I am. He won't play ever again at MSU.

[Commercecomet24]

KTs not hurt.

[Todd4State]

Our fanbase is at a quandary.We want someone who can run like Fitz and throw like Tua. We know to beat elite teams we have to throw the ball. We also want our team to be physical and just run the ball(even though we've done that for years) and hasn't brought us the big success we all want. When we throw it some folks say we're finesse and soft yet when we keep trying to run against elite defenses and it doesn't work it's a bad game plan. In 2015 when we threw the ball more with Dak some folks said we had become a soft and finesse team. The real key is continuing to recruit better players and be able to matchup more closely in talent with elite teams. Our talent level has risen in the last 10 years and we're getting closer. Then you have to have a coach that can game plan both run and pass and make necessary adjustments against elite defenses. Yes I think this is what every fanbase outside of 4-5 cfb teams want their teams to be. We're kind of at crossroads, we really don't want to give up the ol 3 yards and a cloud of dust physical offense but know we have to at some point. The next few years are going to be interesting for sure. Let's hope we can find some balance. The answer is out there. Shrader can perhaps bring some balance to the force lol.

I know I already responded to this earlier but I was out and it gave me a revelation and I needed to digest it for a few hours.

I have always been confused as to why so many of our fans turned so quickly on Joe after the Kentucky loss last year and it always confused me. But I think this totally explains it.

Like you said we need to throw the ball more. That's the way football as a sport is shifting. But I think we have a lot of fans that aren't sure that we can be/do that. And I think that explains why some fans are worried that we're going to go from 8 wins a year to I guess 3 wins or whatever again. But the quandry like you said is doing what we have been doing has really only yielding 10 wins at best, an average of 8 wins if we're "doing it right"- but not really able to realistically compete for championships because we limit ourselves and the Alabama's are just going to load the box and shut us down easily. So, really going run first we're basically saying "let's beat the La Tech's and the SEC teams we should beat like Vanderbilt and go to a bowl and be happy with that.

I think that's why in some ways Dan was "prefect" for MSU. He was at his core run first and conservative. Didn't get into recruiting too much- like many of our fans who get off put by "respect my decision". And he for the most part won the games he should.

But Joe is the opposite in many ways so even though he is essentially having the same results for the most part - beating who we should for the most part and losing to top rated teams- because he's trying to change so much it's making some of our fans very uncomfortable.

Thanks for the revelation Yoda.

[HoopsDawg]

I personally don't know any MSU fans that have a problem with us throwing the ball. This is a strange narrative that I continue to see. My problem is with JoMos scheme and tempo among several other things.

[Todd4State]

I personally don't know any MSU fans that have a problem with us throwing the ball. This is a strange narrative that I continue to see. My problem is with JoMos scheme and tempo among several other things.

It's not a consensus. I have seen a few people say some things on social media and message boards about "we run the ball at MSU, that's what MSU does, etc." I mean- RTGDF?

[BrunswickDawg]

It's not a consensus. I have seen a few people say some things on social media and message boards about "we run the ball at MSU, that's what MSU does, etc." I mean- RTGDF?

Some good comments from CC, T4S and even Liverpool.

If it is any consolation - we aren't the only ones not happy with the "evolution" toward a more pass oriented O. My UGA friends are all up in arms about Kirby getting "pass happy". They lead the 17'n SEC in Rushing - again - and are gaining more yards on avg then last year, and UGA fans aren't satisfied because they are running it 3 times less a game then last year and their passing is so "bad" that they are averaging 40 yards a game more in passing yards.

They are even wearing "Run The Damn Ball!" hats at games and printing up t-shirts (seriously, I'm not making this up). Now, some of this is more related to Kirby's Red-Zone play calling. But, you would be shocked at how many "our offense is such a shit show" comments I saw from my UGA friends last week against UT when Fromm was 24 of 29 for 288, and they ran for 238. But, no one ran for 100 - so their offense is broken.

But, Kirby knows the same thing that Joe knows - UGA is going to play at some defenses every year that are strong enough to shut down the running game and they have to be able to stretch the field vertically to win. Last year it was LSU & Bama. This year it looks like UF, AU, and maybe MO (still too early to tell on that one), and Bama if they make the SECC.

[timotheus]

If our O line controls the UT D front, MSU wins.

[msstate7]

Runs/total plays = run %
2019: 203/329 = .62
2018: 514/837 = .61
2017: 634/987 = .64
2016: 532/943 = .56
2015: 427/927 = .46
2014: 578/1001 = .58

ETA... I'm fine with our run/pass %. I'm much more concerned with our dropping total plays... we're on pace for 790 plays this year.

[ShotgunDawg]

If our O line controls the UT D front, MSU wins.

The OL is infinitely better with Shrader at QB. More margin for error, more elusive QB with better pocket presence, & keeps the LBs on their toes due to his running ability

[BrunswickDawg]

Runs/total plays = run %
2019: 203/329 = .62
2018: 514/837 = .61
2017: 634/987 = .64
2016: 532/943 = .56
2015: 427/927 = .46
2014: 578/1001 = .58

You mean perception is not reality? I'm *Shocked*.

[HoopsDawg]

Runs/total plays = run %
2019: 203/329 = .62
2018: 514/837 = .61
2017: 634/987 = .64
2016: 532/943 = .56
2015: 427/927 = .46
2014: 578/1001 = .58

ETA... I'm fine with our run/pass %. I'm much more concerned with our dropping total plays... we're on pace for 790 plays this year.

Yep, it's a strange narrative that's not accurate. Aren't we 90th in plays per game or maybe worse?

[Prediction? Pain.]

Yep, it's a strange narrative that's not accurate. Aren't we 90th in plays per game or maybe worse?

Lower -- we're 96th nationally in plays per game.

As we've discussed before, Joe's offenses at Penn State weren't all that fast. They were explosive and successful as hell, but not super fast. Seemed to be downright slow in 2016 (112th in plays per game) and on the fast side of moderate in 2017 (61st in plays per game). Last year we were basically where his 2016 PSU offense was (117th). (I'll also add the caveat that plays per game isn't the perfect stat for pace. It's relevant, but so are other things like type and quality of defense and type of offense. Successful run-heavy teams, for instance, are always going to be a little slower than pass-heavy teams even if they're quick.)

I honestly don't know how much I care about the pace. If we're successful at whatever it is we're doing, more power to Joe. If a quicker pace would help, let's do it. If a quicker pace would hurt, don't.

It's also interesting to note how individual coaches have changed their paces depending upon the composition of their teams. Mullen's a great example. Our plays-per-game stat jumped around a fair amount his his time here. Several years we hovered around 50th nationally in plays per game, but we jumped up to a high of 16th in 2014 and dipped down to a low of 111th in 2012. And check out his Florida numbers so far. Last year they were 91st nationally in plays per game and after 6 games this year they're 112th nationally.

Auburn under Malzahn is another good example. They incorporate quick snaps regularly in their offense, but even then, they've varied in their average plays per game. From 2013 - 2019, here are their national ranks in that department: 62nd, 66th, 86th, 67th, 81st, and 56th. Again, part of this has to do with their run-heavy style. When they're running it so much, even quick runs are going to eat more clock that a succession of quick passes. But still, it shows some variation year to year, depending on what their system and personnel dictates.

Different strokes, I guess . . . .

[ShotgunDawg]

Lower -- we're 96th nationally in plays per game.

As we've discussed before, Joe's offenses at Penn State weren't all that fast. They were explosive and successful as hell, but not super fast. Seemed to be downright slow in 2016 (112th in plays per game) and on the fast side of moderate in 2017 (61st in plays per game). Last year we were basically where his 2016 PSU offense was (117th). (I'll also add the caveat that plays per game isn't the perfect stat for pace. It's relevant, but so are other things like type and quality of defense and type of offense. Successful run-heavy teams, for instance, are always going to be a little slower than pass-heavy teams even if they're quick.)

I honestly don't know how much I care about the pace. If we're successful at whatever it is we're doing, more power to Joe. If a quicker pace would help, let's do it. If a quicker pace would hurt, don't.

It's also interesting to note how individual coaches have changed their paces depending upon the composition of their teams. Mullen's a great example. Our plays-per-game stat jumped around a fair amount his his time here. Several years we hovered around 50th nationally in plays per game, but we jumped up to a high of 16th in 2014 and dipped down to a low of 111th in 2012. And check out his Florida numbers so far. Last year they were 91st nationally in plays per game and after 6 games this year they're 112th nationally.

Auburn under Malzahn is another good example. They incorporate quick snaps regularly in their offense, but even then, they've varied in their average plays per game. From 2013 - 2019, here are their national ranks in that department: 62nd, 66th, 86th, 67th, 81st, and 56th. Again, part of this has to do with their run-heavy style. When they're running it so much, even quick runs are going to eat more clock that a succession of quick passes. But still, it shows some variation year to year, depending on what their system and personnel dictates.

Different strokes, I guess . . . .

I agree. I don't think it matters much.

I will say though that I like variance in how fast you go. Without any evidence that it actually helps, I like showing hurry up on occasion just to keep the defense off balance. Snap the ball at all parts of the play clock just to keep the defense from getting in a rhythm

[Commercecomet24]

Lower -- we're 96th nationally in plays per game.

As we've discussed before, Joe's offenses at Penn State weren't all that fast. They were explosive and successful as hell, but not super fast. Seemed to be downright slow in 2016 (112th in plays per game) and on the fast side of moderate in 2017 (61st in plays per game). Last year we were basically where his 2016 PSU offense was (117th). (I'll also add the caveat that plays per game isn't the perfect stat for pace. It's relevant, but so are other things like type and quality of defense and type of offense. Successful run-heavy teams, for instance, are always going to be a little slower than pass-heavy teams even if they're quick.)

I honestly don't know how much I care about the pace. If we're successful at whatever it is we're doing, more power to Joe. If a quicker pace would help, let's do it. If a quicker pace would hurt, don't.

It's also interesting to note how individual coaches have changed their paces depending upon the composition of their teams. Mullen's a great example. Our plays-per-game stat jumped around a fair amount his his time here. Several years we hovered around 50th nationally in plays per game, but we jumped up to a high of 16th in 2014 and dipped down to a low of 111th in 2012. And check out his Florida numbers so far. Last year they were 91st nationally in plays per game and after 6 games this year they're 112th nationally.

Auburn under Malzahn is another good example. They incorporate quick snaps regularly in their offense, but even then, they've varied in their average plays per game. From 2013 - 2019, here are their national ranks in that department: 62nd, 66th, 86th, 67th, 81st, and 56th. Again, part of this has to do with their run-heavy style. When they're running it so much, even quick runs are going to eat more clock that a succession of quick passes. But still, it shows some variation year to year, depending on what their system and personnel dictates.

Different strokes, I guess . . . .

Agree on all this. Good stuff. Pace of play can be overrated just like time of possession

[tcdog70]

I don't think it matters about which QB we play--the questions is can the defense tackle and cover.

[R2Dawg]

Agree on all this. Good stuff. Pace of play can be overrated just like time of possession

Any metric can be over hyped but pace of play can be critical against the right teams as can time of possession. TOP will wear a team down and if you want to keep the ball away from an explosive O (Bama or LSU) it may become critical. If you are overmatched talent wise, pace of play can be a tool to even the playing field. Change in pace I think could benefit every team.

As others mentioned, mix it up a little. Slow to the point of getting delay penalties, etc. needs to never happen. We seem to be slow regardless if it helps or hurts. There are only a handful of teams each year that can basically do what they want how they want and get away with it and then that doesn't work when you play one of those teams. And guess what, we aren't one of those teams.

[HoopsDawg]

Any metric can be over hyped but pace of play can be critical against the right teams as can time of possession. TOP will wear a team down and if you want to keep the ball away from an explosive O (Bama or LSU) it may become critical. If you are overmatched talent wise, pace of play can be a tool to even the playing field. Change in pace I think could benefit every team.

As others mentioned, mix it up a little. Slow to the point of getting delay penalties, etc. needs to never happen. We seem to be slow regardless if it helps or hurts. There are only a handful of teams each year that can basically do what they want how they want and get away with it and then that doesn't work when you play one of those teams. And guess what, we aren't one of those teams.

This^^. We aren't strategically slow, we're just slow.

[Commercecomet24]

Any metric can be over hyped but pace of play can be critical against the right teams as can time of possession. TOP will wear a team down and if you want to keep the ball away from an explosive O (Bama or LSU) it may become critical. If you are overmatched talent wise, pace of play can be a tool to even the playing field. Change in pace I think could benefit every team.

As others mentioned, mix it up a little. Slow to the point of getting delay penalties, etc. needs to never happen. We seem to be slow regardless if it helps or hurts. There are only a handful of teams each year that can basically do what they want how they want and get away with it and then that doesn't work when you play one of those teams. And guess what, we aren't one of those teams.

And I agree we need to mix it up. Hell I'm a Pats fan and they keep everything mixed up so I completely understand. I'm saying it can be misleading just like TOP. This offense joe is running has been successful everywhere he's been so it's not like he's trying something that hasn't worked. Has it worked here yet? No. Can it in the future, remains to be seen.

[basedog]

A bad idea only happens when it doesn't work, so IF Stevens starts and we win how many will really be happy? If he starts Stevens and we lose then it was a bad idea.

To think Stevens is scared or didn't want to play against Auburn is retarded unless he told you. If he is scared he wouldn't be playing college football.

Lastly I'm good whoever starts, the most important thing for the fans and Msu football is win Saturday.

[Commercecomet24]

A bad idea only happens when it doesn't work, so IF Stevens starts and we win how many will really be happy? If he starts Stevens and we lose then it was a bad idea.

To think Stevens is scared or didn't want to play against Auburn is retarded unless he told you. If he is scared he wouldn't be playing college football.

Lastly I'm good whoever starts, the most important thing for the fans and Msu football is win Saturday.

Exactly. No reason to deal in absolutes on this. If Tommy starts and we blow out ut and he has a big game is anyone really gonna be mad cause he started? I don't think so. Personally I like what Shraders is doing but I'm not the head coach. Tommy did look really good the first 6 quarters of the season. We'll know soon enough. We are in position the MSU has rarely if ever been in. Having 2 pretty good QBs at the same time.

[basedog]

Exactly. No reason to deal in absolutes on this. If Tommy starts and we blow out ut and he has a big game is anyone really gonna be mad cause he started? I don't think so. Personally I like what Shraders is doing but I'm not the head coach. Tommy did look really good the first 6 quarters of the season. We'll know soon enough. We are in position the MSU has rarely if ever been in. Having 2 pretty good QBs at the same time.

I agree, I don't get the sarcasm about Stevens getting hurt. Like I've stated before, Joe wanted Stevens for a reason, he knows the offense and the kid has some talent. I think everyone forgets Stevens was elected team captain, so he must have won the team over. I think Joe and all Msu fans are pleasantly surprised and happy seeing Shrader play well and no doubt the future is bright.

Enough from me, I just like winning

[Commercecomet24]

I agree, I don't get the sarcasm about Stevens getting hurt. Like I've stated before, Joe wanted Stevens for a reason, he knows the offense and the kid has some talent. I think everyone forgets Stevens was elected team captain, so he must have won the team over. I think Joe and all Msu fans are pleasantly surprised and happy seeing Shrader play well and no doubt the future is bright.

Enough from me, I just like winning

Agree. Just win baby! Winning cures a lot of ills.

[Coach34]

It?s a big load of BS that a lot of State people want to keep grinding and don?t want to throw the football. What is the point is that moderately intelligent State people see that this team is built to #RTGDF and make a few throws along with it to be the most successful. We came out slangin vs Auburn and it showed we weren?t ready for that. We put Shrader in and Sloppy J went more conservative- 8 runs and 3 passes-
TD. This shit isn?t hard

When we get better WR?s- many of us will be on board with slangin that thang around a little more. In the meantime- play to your team?s strengths- which is what good coaches do.

[mparkerfd20]

.....When we get better WR?s- many of us will be on board with slangin that thang around a little more. In the meantime- play to your team?s strengths- which is what good coaches do.

Exactly, but Sloppy Jo has already proven he isn't a very good coach.

[dawgday166]

I know I already responded to this earlier but I was out and it gave me a revelation and I needed to digest it for a few hours.

I have always been confused as to why so many of our fans turned so quickly on Joe after the Kentucky loss last year and it always confused me. But I think this totally explains it.

Like you said we need to throw the ball more. That's the way football as a sport is shifting. But I think we have a lot of fans that aren't sure that we can be/do that. And I think that explains why some fans are worried that we're going to go from 8 wins a year to I guess 3 wins or whatever again. But the quandry like you said is doing what we have been doing has really only yielding 10 wins at best, an average of 8 wins if we're "doing it right"- but not really able to realistically compete for championships because we limit ourselves and the Alabama's are just going to load the box and shut us down easily. So, really going run first we're basically saying "let's beat the La Tech's and the SEC teams we should beat like Vanderbilt and go to a bowl and be happy with that.

I think that's why in some ways Dan was "prefect" for MSU. He was at his core run first and conservative. Didn't get into recruiting too much- like many of our fans who get off put by "respect my decision". And he for the most part won the games he should.

But Joe is the opposite in many ways so even though he is essentially having the same results for the most part - beating who we should for the most part and losing to top rated teams- because he's trying to change so much it's making some of our fans very uncomfortable.

Thanks for the revelation Yoda.

Why'd our fanbase turn so quickly on Fitz, Aeris, and D. Thomas who had already done a lot for us and been warriors?? They damn sure didn't deserve that either. Joe ain't done nothing for MSU yet but collect $3 mill.

In 2016 I got pissed at Dan when he was playing a bunch of sophs plus a new QB following a legend and everyone, including me were pissed about the season. 7 and Liverpool were a few of his only defenders. Dan kept reminding us we had been #1 for 5 weeks in 2014 and I kept saying that don't mean squat now ... you can't just take off from coaching and let us slip like this. BUT ... at least he had done something by that time for us and had somewhat delivered on his promise ... compete for championships which we did in 2014.

Joe has done nothing yet but he's quick to remind us that we, MSU, literally have sucked forever and we shouldn't expect more. Ok ... I got it. It feels pretty Croomesque to me .. and we'll see.

As for slinging it ... I'm good with that but it's how you set it up and you also have to have some tough guys that will stick their nose in there and block for the QB. And you have to game plan and have a plan for speed rushers that are too much for LTs. I would sorta think an offensive savant could figure that out. Regardless of who the QB is, if he's getting killed he ain't gonna have that great a stats ... or if his "star" receiver won't catch passes over the middle either.

[Cooterpoot]

I know I already responded to this earlier but I was out and it gave me a revelation and I needed to digest it for a few hours.

I have always been confused as to why so many of our fans turned so quickly on Joe after the Kentucky loss last year and it always confused me. But I think this totally explains it.

Like you said we need to throw the ball more. That's the way football as a sport is shifting. But I think we have a lot of fans that aren't sure that we can be/do that. And I think that explains why some fans are worried that we're going to go from 8 wins a year to I guess 3 wins or whatever again. But the quandry like you said is doing what we have been doing has really only yielding 10 wins at best, an average of 8 wins if we're "doing it right"- but not really able to realistically compete for championships because we limit ourselves and the Alabama's are just going to load the box and shut us down easily. So, really going run first we're basically saying "let's beat the La Tech's and the SEC teams we should beat like Vanderbilt and go to a bowl and be happy with that.

I think that's why in some ways Dan was "prefect" for MSU. He was at his core run first and conservative. Didn't get into recruiting too much- like many of our fans who get off put by "respect my decision". And he for the most part won the games he should.

But Joe is the opposite in many ways so even though he is essentially having the same results for the most part - beating who we should for the most part and losing to top rated teams- because he's trying to change so much it's making some of our fans very uncomfortable.

Thanks for the revelation Yoda.

No, Jo has been unorganized, his teams have lacked discipline, he was called an offensive genius but couldn?t even adapt to the players he had. He?s a one trick pony that struggles to even get plays called. His staff turnover has been high and recruiting isn?t really better than the previous staff outside of spreading out the numbers. He thought we had to play Autry vs USM when he didn?t. He?s lost several games he was favored in.
That enough or should I continue? He?s got to get shit together.

[dawgday166]

No, Jo has been unorganized, his teams have lacked discipline, he was called an offensive genius but couldn?t even adapt to the players he had. He?s a one trick pony that struggles to even get plays called. His staff turnover has been high and recruiting isn?t really better than the previous staff outside of spreading out the numbers. He thought we had to play Autry vs USM when he didn?t. He?s lost several games he was favored in.
That enough or should I continue? He?s got to get shit together.

I've noticed this too. I've said he's recruiting better but is he? Maybe some of the DEs he recruited last year will be turned into LBs (and they look like they could be maybe), but there are no classified LBs in last year's class. He also whiffed on every RB he tried to get. Who's the RB after Kylin graduates?

So while Mullen always had holes in his classes ... seems Joe may have some too. We'll know in 2 or 3 years for sure. Oline recruiting was better really only because of Cross. From a stars perspective it's about the same. We'll see how those players develop going forward.

[Coach34]

Most people realize we could have hired Greg Knox as HC to go 8-5 last year. We just can’t lose to K-St at home or a game like Tenn tomorrow

[cheewgumm]

What makes me mad about Moorhead is that our team last year was PERFECT for run it down others throat and play defense. Absolutely once in a a lifetime, this team can beat anyone by running and playing D.

And Joe completely blew it.

Those chances don?t come to a State very often. When they do you have to take advantage. I don?t think Joe knew our team well enough to understand that. And that is inexcusable.

He?ll never have a team as good as last years. Losing 5 with that team is criminal. Something I?ll never get over. I?m more amazed at the stupidity of it every day.

And our fans chalking it up to ?yeah but we weren?t good on offense because we couldn?t throw? - wrong. Joe felt pressure before the Auburn game so he ran it. We throttled Auburn. We then had a week off and he thought further and probabaly thought ?I know best, we?re running MY offense.? We promptly laid an egg and lost to an LSU team that we should have beat at their place.

I hope Joe figures it out but last year is hard to get over. It also makes me think he will make the wrong decisions as he made the most blatantly wrong decision last year.

[Homedawg]

Most people realize we could have hired Greg Knox as HC to go 8-5 last year. We just can’t lose to K-St at home or a game like Tenn tomorrow

That's a fact!!

[Homedawg]

Most people realize we could have hired Greg Knox as HC to go 8-5 last year. We just can’t lose to K-St at home or a game like Tenn tomorrow


But ksu was a good team, they will win a bunch of games************ they aren't good and even played bad that day and still beat us on the road. I know, I know we had suspensions. Great. Our talent level is way higher than theirs no matter what

[Lord McBuckethead]

It?s a big load of BS that a lot of State people want to keep grinding and don?t want to throw the football. What is the point is that moderately intelligent State people see that this team is built to #RTGDF and make a few throws along with it to be the most successful. We came out slangin vs Auburn and it showed we weren?t ready for that. We put Shrader in and Sloppy J went more conservative- 8 runs and 3 passes-
TD. This shit isn?t hard

When we get better WR?s- many of us will be on board with slangin that thang around a little more. In the meantime- play to your team?s strengths- which is what good coaches do.

1st, we havent even seen what this offense can do with a balanced running and passing attack yet either last year or this year. Weeks 1 and 2 were against weaker defenses and it was very difficult for them to cover the way they needed to for Stevens and make sure they had enough eyeing Kylin.

2nd, running the damn ball is easier with a qb that makes then cover us spread out. Back to the first point, we haven't seen a game yet with our offense healthy enough to execute Joe's playbook.

3rd, you are right when having the qb run the ball also places the defense in a pickle. It is going to very useful against UT, aTm, and UM. Not so much against LSU and Bama. Both of those defenses can cover us with minimal help and make sure they have players on Kylin and the qb.

In our rpo system, we need quick calls, quick line ups, multiple options, and attack at every point of the game. WR screens, jet sweeps, qb run throw options, direct hand offs to rb, and rb screens. I really do not care who plays qb. We need to execute and work tempo to our favor.

[Cooterpoot]

Let’s add the fact Jo played Autry vs USM but will not vs TN. Things so stupid you can’t make them up.

[Coach34]

Back to the first point, we haven't seen a game yet with our offense healthy enough to execute Joe's playbook.

Thats the whole ******* point. You coach to what you have- what you put on the field. Not what you would like to do all the time. This isnt EASports- this is real life. You adapt to what you have- not what you wish you had.

[Todd4State]

Why'd our fanbase turn so quickly on Fitz, Aeris, and D. Thomas who had already done a lot for us and been warriors?? They damn sure didn't deserve that either. Joe ain't done nothing for MSU yet but collect $3 mill.

In 2016 I got pissed at Dan when he was playing a bunch of sophs plus a new QB following a legend and everyone, including me were pissed about the season. 7 and Liverpool were a few of his only defenders. Dan kept reminding us we had been #1 for 5 weeks in 2014 and I kept saying that don't mean squat now ... you can't just take off from coaching and let us slip like this. BUT ... at least he had done something by that time for us and had somewhat delivered on his promise ... compete for championships which we did in 2014.

Joe has done nothing yet but he's quick to remind us that we, MSU, literally have sucked forever and we shouldn't expect more. Ok ... I got it. It feels pretty Croomesque to me .. and we'll see.

As for slinging it ... I'm good with that but it's how you set it up and you also have to have some tough guys that will stick their nose in there and block for the QB. And you have to game plan and have a plan for speed rushers that are too much for LTs. I would sorta think an offensive savant could figure that out. Regardless of who the QB is, if he's getting killed he ain't gonna have that great a stats ... or if his "star" receiver won't catch passes over the middle either.

As 7 said with his stats- we're only running the ball 2-3% of the time less than we did with Dan in 2017 with the same players and Nick's carries went up significantly from 162 in 2017 to 221 in 2018 and he had five fewer pass attempts in roughly the same amount of games. I would say that's trying to put the ball in the hands of our best player.

So, the stats show that the "we're not using our personnel and adapting" thing is more perception than reality.

I haven't seen any fans turn on Deddrick Thomas or Aeris. So not sure what that's about.

[RougeDawg]

Todd. You are correct

You play to win. Any half ass coach does. Only some try to shove a square peg into a round hole. Only a few, recognize they personnel they have and adjust.

SloMo does not adjust.

[Cooterpoot]

As 7 said with his stats- we're only running the ball 2-3% of the time less than we did with Dan in 2017 with the same players and Nick's carries went up significantly from 162 in 2017 to 221 in 2018 and he had five fewer pass attempts in roughly the same amount of games. I would say that's trying to put the ball in the hands of our best player.

So, the stats show that the "we're not using our personnel and adapting" thing is more perception than reality.

I haven't seen any fans turn on Deddrick Thomas or Aeris. So not sure what that's about.

Where you getting that us running less, with Fitz making the wrong call a lot of times is adapting. Go look at the carries our RB got last year. And Jo just let it keep happening. He never took those reads away from Fitz or got the ball to Hill. Jo is responsible for correcting that shit and didn?t. Just like he doesn?t correct the lack of discipline, screwed up player rotations, and time management. Us not running the ball has nothing to do with people being disappointed in Jo. It?s those kinds of things that make fans wonder wtf is going on.

[basedog]

Where you getting that us running less, with Fitz making the wrong call a lot of times is adapting. Go look at the carries our RB got last year. And Jo just let it keep happening. He never took those reads away from Fitz or got the ball to Hill. Jo is responsible for correcting that shit and didn?t. Just like he doesn?t correct the lack of discipline, screwed up player rotations, and time management. Us not running the ball has nothing to do with people being disappointed in Jo. It?s those kinds of things that make fans wonder wtf is going on.

And I agree in a lot of what you are saying. Joe has some issues, hopefully he will adjust.

[Cooterpoot]

I want to win. I want Jo to win. So while I may hammer him for some things, I still want him and us to win. Today is pretty much a must win. Lose today and things have a good chance to turn dead south. Nobody wants to see that.

[basedog]

I want to win. I want Jo to win. So while I may hammer him for some things, I still want him and us to win. Today is pretty much a must win. Lose today and things have a good chance to turn dead south. Nobody wants to see that.

+1

[NCDawg]

No, Jo has been unorganized, his teams have lacked discipline, he was called an offensive genius but couldn?t even adapt to the players he had. He?s a one trick pony that struggles to even get plays called. His staff turnover has been high and recruiting isn?t really better than the previous staff outside of spreading out the numbers. He thought we had to play Autry vs USM when he didn?t. He?s lost several games he was favored in.
That enough or should I continue? He?s got to get shit together.

I agree with all the above.

[Todd4State]

Where you getting that us running less, with Fitz making the wrong call a lot of times is adapting. Go look at the carries our RB got last year. And Jo just let it keep happening. He never took those reads away from Fitz or got the ball to Hill. Jo is responsible for correcting that shit and didn?t. Just like he doesn?t correct the lack of discipline, screwed up player rotations, and time management. Us not running the ball has nothing to do with people being disappointed in Jo. It?s those kinds of things that make fans wonder wtf is going on.

I’m just pointing out that we’re not running the ball significantly less than we were before. I agree about Fitz and the wrong reads and I’m not sure why Joe didn’t do something about that.