Tulane doubling up Army

[Coursesuper]

At West Point, and man handling them in the process.

[msstate7]

Fritz is the man

[trojandawg]

Fritz is the man

I love their offense and how they play. If... IF we do a hire next year and he is there that?s who I would go after.

[Saltydog]

And Bawby Hall's son, Will is their OC. One of the best young OC's in the game.

[Todd4State]

Fritz is the man

He's a good example of what happens when a program is patient with their coach. There were plenty of Tulane fans that weren't happy with him after two years.

Something you should keep in mind.

[msstate7]

He's a good example of what happens when a program is patient with their coach. There were plenty of Tulane fans that weren't happy with him after two years.

Something you should keep in mind.

Fritz took over a trash program. We were hardly trash

[dawgday166]

Fritz took over a trash program. We were hardly trash

Naww ... We were trash. Joe had to come in and totally revamp the culture. He's setting that championship standard on the field and in the classroom.

[Todd4State]

Fritz took over a trash program. We were hardly trash

Tulane went 3-9 under Johnson and then went 4-8 the next year and 5-7 the first two years under Fritz. And then they went 7-6 last year barely making it to a bowl- as in they had to score a two point conversion over Navy to squeak in. The point is it takes a couple of years for any coach to get their players in and for the results to show.

Joe has been having the same results that Dan has had with the same players this year and last. Just like Fritz basically.

[msstate7]

Tulane went 3-9 under Johnson and then went 4-8 the next year and 5-7 the first two years under Fritz. And then they went 7-6 last year barely making it to a bowl- as in they had to score a two point conversion over Navy to squeak in. The point is it takes a couple of years for any coach to get their players in and for the results to show.

Joe has been having the same results that Dan has had with the same players this year and last. Just like Fritz basically.

2017: 9-4
2018: 8-5
2019: ?

This season isn't over, and there's time to turn it around, but it looks like we going the opposite direction

[Todd4State]

2017: 9-4
2018: 8-5
2019: ?

This season isn't over, and there's time to turn it around, but it looks like we going the opposite direction

We won't have mass suspensions every year either. If we win the games we are supposed to and then win the bowl game- which I imagine we have a good chance knowing that we can play our suspended guys we'll have the exact same record as last year.

You might want to take a gander at Dave Clawson's first two years as well. He still has a losing record at Wake Forest. And he took over a 4-8 program and then went 3-9 two years in a row.

[trojandawg]

Todd I typically respect you with baseball. But you are way off with football. Everything shows we are trending downward.

[dawgday166]

Todd I typically respect you with baseball. But you are way off with football. Everything shows we are trending downward.

He tries hard tho ... Bless his heart! ***

[Todd4State]

Todd I typically respect you with baseball. But you are way off with football. Everything shows we are trending downward.

We'll see.

I'm just saying it's too soon to know at this point. We have too many fans right now complaining about having the EXACT same season that we had so many times under Dan. And yet we expect much better in one and a half seasons? The losses that we've had under Joe- every single one except for K-State has been to a team that finished in the top 25. And all but two of those including K-State have been to top 15 teams. We'll see where K-State finishes the year too. But it's not as bad as losing to South Alabama.

As far as everything trending down- our PPG is up a full 2 PPG from last year and only down 2 PPG from 2017 And we are up 6 PPG in conference play compared to last year and only down 1 PPG from 2017 and we haven't played Abeline Christian. Yes, our defense has trended down but let's be honest- we were 1 or 2 in most major categories. It also improved under Shoop in year one.

Recruiting has improved from 27 Dan's last year to 24 last year to currently 20.

So, again- no not everything is showing that we are "trending downward".

[HoopsDawg]

Neal Brown was the right guy.

[Todd4State]

Neal Brown was the right guy.

I think he's a good coach but he's also an Air Raid guy and we would have still had to make some adjustments and had some struggles because of our personnel.

[MaroonFlounder]

Trending downward is what the Landsharks are saying about us.

There are some sad sack, woah is me, Debbie Downer's on this forum.

If JoMo can't fix the dead ball penalties and the special teams gaffs, I will be ready to turn the heat up on this staff.

And I still say that the suspensions and injuries have been a severe detriment to this season.

[msstate7]

I think he's a good coach but he's also an Air Raid guy and we would have still had to make some adjustments and had some struggles because of our personnel.
Troy last year was 56.6% run heavy

[Homedawg]

We'll see.

I'm just saying it's too soon to know at this point. We have too many fans right now complaining about having the EXACT same season that we had so many times under Dan. And yet we expect much better in one and a half seasons? The losses that we've had under Joe- every single one except for K-State has been to a team that finished in the top 25. And all but two of those including K-State have been to top 15 teams. We'll see where K-State finishes the year too. But it's not as bad as losing to South Alabama.

As far as everything trending down- our PPG is up a full 2 PPG from last year and only down 2 PPG from 2017 And we are up 6 PPG in conference play compared to last year and only down 1 PPG from 2017 and we haven't played Abeline Christian. Yes, our defense has trended down but let's be honest- we were 1 or 2 in most major categories. It also improved under Shoop in year one.

Recruiting has improved from 27 Dan's last year to 24 last year to currently 20.

So, again- no not everything is showing that we are "trending downward".

While I think recruiting is better. It's not by a ton. It's just better. We will be lucky to finish in the. top 25. Either way, we will still be 10-11 in the league.

[Todd4State]

While I think recruiting is better. It's not by a ton. It's just better. We will be lucky to finish in the. top 25. Either way, we will still be 10-11 in the league.

Which is not a "trend downward".

[Todd4State]

Troy last year was 56.6% run heavy

Good for them. He's still an Air Raid guy.

[Homedawg]

Which is not a "trend downward".

I was commenting on what you said in regard to recruiting.... However, our record is trending downward and will more than likely next year too.... he needs to finish strong get us to 7-5 and not completely lose the fan base.

[HoopsDawg]

Good for them. He's still an Air Raid guy.

No he's not. He has an air raid background. You aren't air raid if you run more than u throw. Troy is awful this year without him.

[Todd4State]

I was commenting on what you said in regard to recruiting.... However, our record is trending downward and will more than likely next year too.... he needs to finish strong get us to 7-5 and not completely lose the fan base.

Let's be honest he already has. Some people aren't going to support him no matter what he does. Which says a lot about our fans.

Of course a lot of it goes back to MSU politics as well and some not wanting to see Cohen and others in the AD succeed either.

I just can't consciously support all of that because two wrongs don't make a right in my mind.

But hey! The next coach has it made because then it will be all Joe's fault and things are so much better without the "check with me".

[trojandawg]

We are currently ranked in the 70s if offense and we?re last year also. We are actually lower. Our points per game is actually lower also.Mullen?s last two years we were in the 40s in total offense. So we have been regressing. ******* second year he brought us from 118th Crooms last year to the 47th in total offense. Moorhead didn?t have to make that kind of jump. I just expected him to maintain that. Not go the opposite direction. Recruiting is maybe slightly better. Completion percentage is actually only slight better at 58 percent this season. Fitz average 54 in his career. Dak was 61 percent for his career. Tommy was sitting at 61 percent on his way out. The offense is at a push of being better than last year and is actually a little worse if you look at the team stammers. We have only moved up one spot in the sec for passing this season so far. You bring up Abilene Christian but we also still have LSU and bama snd Texas A&M. Even ole miss defense is approved this season. I just want to see the crap penalties, disfunction, and carelessness go away. I also want to see some seriousness and serious progress with the offense. But I think what we see is what we get with joe. Sloppy play mixed with indecisive weak offense. I expected snd knew defense would be down.m losing that much. The problem I have with them this year is that they look completely unprepared and undisciplined. They looked lost and run their mouth too much for not doing shit on the field. All of this points back to our laid back genius of a coach. Those other coaches you mentioned took over programs that were in the 100s in total offense similar to what Mullen inherited. Moorhead inherited a talented squad that was stable. He showed last year he didn?t know how to use it and decide he needed to rebuild to what he thought was his idea of a championship program. He didn?t have to. Instead he has built his program on shitty discipline, sloppiness, and a soft program mindset. You don?t build champions that way. I?ve seen enough to see that.

[Todd4State]

We are currently ranked in the 70s if offense and we?re last year also. We are actually lower. Our points per game is actually lower also.Mullen?s last two years we were in the 40s in total offense. So we have been regressing. ******* second year he brought us from 118th Crooms last year to the 47th in total offense. Moorhead didn?t have to make that kind of jump. I just expected him to maintain that. Not go the opposite direction. Recruiting is maybe slightly better. Completion percentage is actually only slight better at 58 percent this season. Fitz average 54 in his career. Dak was 61 percent for his career. Tommy was sitting at 61 percent on his way out. The offense is at a push of being better than last year and is actually a little worse if you look at the team stammers. We have only moved up one spot in the sec for passing this season so far. You bring up Abilene Christian but we also still have LSU and bama snd Texas A&M. Even ole miss defense is approved this season. I just want to see the crap penalties, disfunction, and carelessness go away. I also want to see some seriousness and serious progress with the offense. But I think what we see is what we get with joe. Sloppy play mixed with indecisive weak offense. I expected snd knew defense would be down.m losing that much. The problem I have with them this year is that they look completely unprepared and undisciplined. They looked lost and run their mouth too much for not doing shit on the field. All of this points back to our laid back genius of a coach. Those other coaches you mentioned took over programs that were in the 100s in total offense similar to what Mullen inherited. Moorhead inherited a talented squad that was stable. He showed last year he didn?t know how to use it and decide he needed to rebuild to what he thought was his idea of a championship program. He didn?t have to. Instead he has built his program on shitty discipline, sloppiness, and a soft program mindset. You don?t build champions that way. I?ve seen enough to see that.

Again- our PPG is up. "National Rank" can be misleading because it can vary from year to year throughout the nation. Total offense isn't important because the goal isn't to get yards- it's to score points. LSU and Alabama's defense are not as good as they were last year. I would not be surprised at all if we put some point up on them especially at home. So- on they're not "approved". Most trends are pointing to our offense improving from this point forward.

And Tommy had a completion percentage as good as our greatest QB ever? Obvious regression there.**

[Homedawg]

Let's be honest he already has. Some people aren't going to support him no matter what he does. Which says a lot about our fans.

Of course a lot of it goes back to MSU politics as well and some not wanting to see Cohen and others in the AD succeed either.

I just can't consciously support all of that because two wrongs don't make a right in my mind.

But hey! The next coach has it made because then it will be all Joe's fault and things are so much better without the "check with me".

Maybe he has lost some.... takes a lot, a whole lot to get those back. But I don't know anyone that wants him to fail. I honestly don't. But, if he doesn't go 7-5 he's gonna lose more....

[Todd4State]

Maybe he has lost some.... takes a lot, a whole lot to get those back. But I don't know anyone that wants him to fail. I honestly don't. But, if he doesn't go 7-5 he's gonna lose more....

Read this board.

[trojandawg]

Again- our PPG is up. "National Rank" can be misleading because it can vary from year to year throughout the nation. Total offense isn't important because the goal isn't to get yards- it's to score points. LSU and Alabama's defense are not as good as they were last year. I would not be surprised at all if we put some point up on them especially at home. So- on they're not "approved". Most trends are pointing to our offense improving from this point forward.

And Tommy had a completion percentage as good as our greatest QB ever? Obvious regression there.**

The point is that it?s not any better. People on here bashed Mullen?s offense and said Moorhead?s offense was the offense and many of of the stats show trends downward From Mullen?s offense.

Last 4 years


2019: 191.8/game passing, 206.2/game rushing, 30.2 points/game, 3rd down conversion 37% ranking 89th, total offense rank 79 at 398/gm
2018: 173.8/game passing, 223.6/game rushing, 28.5 points/game, 3rd down conversion 41% ranking 48th, total offense rank 70 at 397.4/gm
2017:168/game passing, 251/game rushing, 32 points/game, 3rd down conversion 46% ranking 8th, total offense rank 46 at 418.6/gm
2016: 209/game passing, 230/game passing. 30.4 points/game, 3rd down conversion 40% ranking 63rd, total offense rank 44 at 440.2/gm

Total offense does absolutely matter especially where your defense is down you need to be able to move yourself down the field, rack of yards, and score points. Keep the other offense of the field. Score as many points as possible. We aren?t sustaining drives and staying on the field snd Moorhead isn?t getting as many big plays as he needs or wants to come out on top. Now that he lost the number 1 defense he was left, his offense isn?t keeping up in a year that everyone said would be s progression year. He has his guts on offense now. They can?t get out of their own way though we the check with me, sloppiness, and lack of discipline. Not too mention Moorhead has no rhythm to Calling an offense. Good defensive coordinators whip his ass all night in plan and scheme.

[Quaoarsking]

Todd I typically respect you with baseball. But you are way off with football. Everything shows we are trending downward.

If you ignore that in 4 of Dan's 9 seasons we were 6-6 or worse, sure. And I love Mullen, but we greatly overinflate the frequency of his success when we compare him to Moorhead.

[Homedawg]

Read this board.

They want him to fail?? No. They don't think he can succeed. But they don't want him to fail. They'd way rather him win. That's just fans. How it works.

[Homedawg]

If you ignore that in 4 of Dan's 9 seasons we were 6-6 or worse, sure. And I love Mullen, but we greatly overinflate the frequency of his success when we compare him to Moorhead.

Bc he took over a shitty program that hadn't had success in a decade.... moorhead didn't.

[Quaoarsking]

Bc he took over a shitty program that hadn't had success in a decade.... moorhead didn't.

And yet 3 of those non-winning regular seasons happened after Mullen's 2nd year, in which we finished ranked #15 (2nd best Mullen team here).

[timotheus]

JoMO is or was supposed to take what Mullen had going and then increase it due offensive prowess( he's a guru) but He struggles reading defenses.

[Quaoarsking]

Neal Brown was the right guy.

Maybe, but I can't imagine how awful the meltdown would be here if Joe Moorhead ever had us as bad as Neal Brown's 2019 West Virginia team. (Likely 3-9 or 4-8)

And WV finished ranked last year and 2 of the last 3, so it's not like the Holg left them with nothing.

[Homedawg]

And yet 3 of those non-winning regular seasons happened after Mullen's 2nd year, in which we finished ranked #15 (2nd best Mullen team here).

You asked I told you.... most of the disgruntled fan base is because we look lost. Delay of games, wasted timeouts etc. over and over. And the fact that if we had held every sec opponent to 7 points last year in our losses, we would have gone 0-3 and another in overtime. That's Croomish.

[Quaoarsking]

You asked I told you.... most of the disgruntled fan base is because we look lost. Delay of games, wasted timeouts etc. over and over. And the fact that if we had held every sec opponent to 7 points last year in our losses, we would have gone 0-3 and another in overtime. That's Croomish.

That era is pretty much over thanks to Shrader.

Mullen had trouble offensively his first year with Tyson Lee, and also lost games 51-3, 31-3, and 49-10 in his last year and a half.

[Homedawg]

That era is pretty much over thanks to Shrader.

Mullen had trouble offensively his first year with Tyson Lee, and also lost games 51-3, 31-3, and 49-10 in his last year and a half.

Did you just use Tyson lee as an example??? Really?? My gosh man.... it's not remotely comparable. Tyson lee still led us to a chance to win against LSU. But you clearly choose to defend incompetence on offense in 4 sec games last year. So I'll just hang up.

[HoopsDawg]

Maybe, but I can't imagine how awful the meltdown would be here if Joe Moorhead ever had us as bad as Neal Brown's 2019 West Virginia team. (Likely 3-9 or 4-8)

And WV finished ranked last year and 2 of the last 3, so it's not like the Holg left them with nothing.

You are posting out of ignorance. West Virginia's roster is in really bad shape after losing 5 guys to the NFL draft.

[Quaoarsking]

You are posting out of ignorance. West Virginia's roster is in really bad shape after losing 5 guys to the NFL draft.

So that's a valid excuse now?

[Quaoarsking]

Did you just use Tyson lee as an example??? Really?? My gosh man.... it's not remotely comparable. Tyson lee still led us to a chance to win against LSU. But you clearly choose to defend incompetence on offense in 4 sec games last year. So I'll just hang up.

I've never defended anything. But Moorhead and Mullen both struggled offensively in their first seasons with QBs who weren't great fits.

Lee was 15/38 with 3 INTs against LSU back in 2009 for the record.

[trojandawg]

If you ignore that in 4 of Dan's 9 seasons we were 6-6 or worse, sure. And I love Mullen, but we greatly overinflate the frequency of his success when we compare him to Moorhead.
If our current trajectory continues, you may be seeing a lot of 6-6?s or worse.

[Homedawg]

I've never defended anything. But Moorhead and Mullen both struggled offensively in their first seasons with QBs who weren't great fits.

Lee was 15/38 with 3 INTs against LSU back in 2009 for the record.

You are literally comparing a walk-on qb who is 5-9 to a guy who is the leading sec rushing qb in history. Nevermind....
ETA- yet Dan figured out a way to score more in one game against LSU, than jomo did in 4. Keep coming...

[HoopsDawg]

So that's a valid excuse now?

Umm, Neal Brown inherited a team that lost everything. Moorhead inherited a team that was loaded. I'm done with this discussion.

[Quaoarsking]

You are literally comparing a walk-on qb who is 5-9 to a guy who is the leading sec rushing qb in history. Nevermind....
ETA- yet Dan figured out a way to score more in one game against LSU, than jomo did in 4. Keep coming...

And Jomo scored more against Auburn than Dan did against Alabama '16, Auburn '17, and Georgia '17 combined. We can do this all night with all kinds of examples about either. My point is that people overstate how good Mullen was just to pile on Jomo when an objective look at the results show otherwise.

There is no "trajectory" because even in Mullen's last 2 years we had a losing season (something that Moorhead probably won't ever have here unless he stays a long time and probability catches up with him) and 3 inexcusable blowouts (something Moorhead has sadly also had, although his worst overall game isn't as bad as those 3 of Mullen I mentioned).

I hope Moorhead proves to be better than Mullen. I don't know if he will, but if he ends up being just a little bit better and no more, most people on this board will erroneously believe he's worse.

[Homedawg]

Keep defending shitty performances if you must.

[RougeDawg]

Tulane went 3-9 under Johnson and then went 4-8 the next year and 5-7 the first two years under Fritz. And then they went 7-6 last year barely making it to a bowl- as in they had to score a two point conversion over Navy to squeak in. The point is it takes a couple of years for any coach to get their players in and for the results to show.

Joe has been having the same results that Dan has had with the same players this year and last. Just like Fritz basically.

What do you think he would have done if he had been handed the best defense in the nation for year one? Why is this always forgotten or ignored when comparing SloMo to other coaches. Without that defense last year we probably do not make a bowl game. We only gave up 12-13 points a game. That?s why we won games.

[MaroonFlounder]

Umm, Neal Brown inherited a team that lost everything. Moorhead inherited a team that was loaded. I'm done with this discussion.

Loaded on defense, yes.

The offense he inherited was a one-dimensional shitshow with nobody that could catch a pass.

[trojandawg]

Loaded on defense, yes.

The offense he inherited was a one-dimensional shitshow with nobody that could catch a pass.

That shit show was way more effective than the bullshit we are running now. Mullen?s offense was better statistically than what we have now.

[Quaoarsking]

That shit show was way more effective than the bullshit we are running now. Mullen?s offense was better statistically than what we have now.

Well ... yeah. Is that in dispute?

Shrader is the real deal and will probably run a very crisp offense in future years for us, but Mullen's offense under Dak and Fitz was one of the very best of the SEC this decade.

[Todd4State]

What do you think he would have done if he had been handed the best defense in the nation for year one? Why is this always forgotten or ignored when comparing SloMo to other coaches. Without that defense last year we probably do not make a bowl game. We only gave up 12-13 points a game. That?s why we won games.

Of course our defense is a big reason- the main reason why we went to a bowl game. This year we have a bad defense and are still going to make a bowl game.

I'll say this- if Joe was really as bad a coach as a lot of our fans think he would have screwed up the defensive side of the ball too. But he didn't. Should he get some credit for hiring a guy that actually improved that side of the ball? Or no?

[Todd4State]

And Jomo scored more against Auburn than Dan did against Alabama '16, Auburn '17, and Georgia '17 combined. We can do this all night with all kinds of examples about either. My point is that people overstate how good Mullen was just to pile on Jomo when an objective look at the results show otherwise.

There is no "trajectory" because even in Mullen's last 2 years we had a losing season (something that Moorhead probably won't ever have here unless he stays a long time and probability catches up with him) and 3 inexcusable blowouts (something Moorhead has sadly also had, although his worst overall game isn't as bad as those 3 of Mullen I mentioned).

I hope Moorhead proves to be better than Mullen. I don't know if he will, but if he ends up being just a little bit better and no more, most people on this board will erroneously believe he's worse.

Heck- Joe scored more on Auburn THIS year than Dan did at home.

You absolutely nailed most of our fans with the bolded quote. And they'll argue with you until they are blue in the face and misconstrue stats to show you that they are "right".

[Todd4State]

Did you just use Tyson lee as an example??? Really?? My gosh man.... it's not remotely comparable. Tyson lee still led us to a chance to win against LSU. But you clearly choose to defend incompetence on offense in 4 sec games last year. So I'll just hang up.

Our PPG were actually worse the year next year with Relf as our QB even though we won more games. We finished next to last in the SEC in PPG in Dan's second year- which was actually worse than Joe is on pace to do right now.

[Todd4State]

Loaded on defense, yes.

The offense he inherited was a one-dimensional shitshow with nobody that could catch a pass.

I think a big part of the perception problem is we have too many fans that think that our players on the offensive side of the ball were/should have been better than they actually are/were.

We have been paying for our recruiting sins big time the past two years. Joe may pay for it with his job.

[dawgday166]

I think a big part of the perception problem is we have too many fans that think that our players on the offensive side of the ball were/should have been better than they actually are/were.

We have been paying for our recruiting sins big time the past two years. Joe may pay for it with his job.

So this year our line can block better than FLs so Johnson better than Hev. Last year same guys couldn't block cause Dan & Hev recruited guys with no talent.

Ok ... Got it ****

[Todd4State]

So this year our line can block better than FLs so Johnson better than Hev. Last year same guys couldn't block cause Dan & Hev recruited guys with no talent.

Ok ... Got it ****

Part of it is we had to play guys like Eiland and Reese out of position. We look better on the OL this year with everyone at their appropriate position. Never said anything about us blocking better than Florida.

I'm guessing you missed Eiland whiffing on every top 7 pass rusher in the SEC last year while you were obsessing over Kylin's pass blocking? That was a BIG reason why we lost to UK and UF last year.

[dawgday166]

Part of it is we had to play guys like Eiland and Reese out of position. We look better on the OL this year with everyone at their appropriate position. Never said anything about us blocking better than Florida.

I'm guessing you missed Eiland whiffing on every top 7 pass rusher in the SEC last year while you were obsessing over Kylin's pass blocking? That was a BIG reason why we lost to UK and UF last year.

Good narrative. Baseball's where it's at dude.

[trojandawg]

I think a big part of the perception problem is we have too many fans that think that our players on the offensive side of the ball were/should have been better than they actually are/were.

We have been paying for our recruiting sins big time the past two years. Joe may pay for it with his job.

Nope excuses and shitty performance get you fired. Blaming someone else never works.

[Todd4State]

Good narrative. Baseball's where it's at dude.

What someone posts when they know that they have no comeback.^^^^

[Todd4State]

Nope excuses and shitty performance get you fired. Blaming someone else never works.

Really? Because Dan pretty much got a complete pass for that from our fans and we kept giving him raises.

[msstate7]

Part of it is we had to play guys like Eiland and Reese out of position. We look better on the OL this year with everyone at their appropriate position. Never said anything about us blocking better than Florida.

I'm guessing you missed Eiland whiffing on every top 7 pass rusher in the SEC last year while you were obsessing over Kylin's pass blocking? That was a BIG reason why we lost to UK and UF last year.

We're giving up more sacks/game, less yds/rush, and almost exactly the same TFLs/game

[Coursesuper]

Part of it is we had to play guys like Eiland and Reese out of position. We look better on the OL this year with everyone at their appropriate position. Never said anything about us blocking better than Florida.

I'm guessing you missed Eiland whiffing on every top 7 pass rusher in the SEC last year while you were obsessing over Kylin's pass blocking? That was a BIG reason why we lost to UK and UF last year.

Reese is a guard, but where else are you going to play Eiland? He's a statue, no way he can play guard with his feet. He's not out here f position he's just slow and has to have chip help.

[trojandawg]

Really? Because Dan pretty much got a complete pass for that from our fans and we kept giving him raises.

Dan actually got himself clout early in and built our program up from the shit It was. He earned a down year every few season. Moorhead hasn?t earned that yet. He came in when the program was winning and built up.

[Todd4State]

Reese is a guard, but where else are you going to play Eiland? He's a statue, no way he can play guard with his feet. He's not out here f position he's just slow and has to have chip help.

RT where he is now. Him at LT last year was a complete disaster for the reasons you stated.

[Todd4State]

Dan actually got himself clout early in and built our program up from the shit It was. He earned a down year every few season. Moorhead hasn?t earned that yet. He came in when the program was winning and built up.

How about two of his first three? Because that's pretty much what he did.

You are aware that Joe had the best first season for wins of any coach in MSU history don't you? Better than Jackie or Dan.

[dawgday166]

What someone posts when they know that they have no comeback.^^^^

When someone has a person on a pedestal ... Can't discuss with them. It's like saying something negative to my mom about Trump. He's a saint. He may be decent prez but he far from a lily white saint. I think she believes he was a virgin prior to marrying Melania. You like that about Joe.

[trojandawg]

How about two of his first three? Because that's pretty much what he did.

You are aware that Joe had the best first season for wins of any coach in MSU history don't you? Better than Jackie or Dan.

You are completely ignoring he inherited a built to win team. He inherited the best defense we ever had and one of the best offensive players the sec has ever seen according the record books. Dan nor Jackie neither inherited nothing close to that.

[Todd4State]

When someone has a person on a pedestal ... Can't discuss with them. It's like saying something negative to my mom about Trump. He's a saint. He may be decent prez but he far from a lily white saint. I think she believes he was a virgin prior to marrying Melania. You like that about Joe.

And you're like that about Dan. I don't have Joe on a pedestal. I just have enough common football sense to know that one and half years is too soon to make a reasonable judgement about him and jump off the ledge. I want to make my judgement when he has his players in that fit his system- like Shrader. And see how they develop.

[Todd4State]

You are completely ignoring he inherited a built to win team. He inherited the best defense we ever had and one of the best offensive players the sec has ever seen according the record books. Dan nor Jackie neither inherited nothing close to that.

Again- perception over reality. Joe DID win. And you're completely ignoring that. He beat Auburn and Texas A&M and that wasn't good enough for you because you had an overinflated opinion of what our offense would be rather than what it actually was. You got burned because you were wrong and so you blame Joe for all of that because there is no way in hell that Nick would not be a great passer or that our unknown receivers wouldn't pan out. Unfortunately both happened last year. Instead of moving on you and others continue to blame Joe and are ready to kick him out of the building.

Jackie inherited a pretty good team himself and beat some good teams- but he also lost to Memphis in year one. Dan's play calling against LSU at the end of the game and not challenging a call in year one cost us a bowl and a marquee program changing win over LSU.

[trojandawg]

Again- perception over reality. Joe DID win. And you're completely ignoring that. He beat Auburn and Texas A&M and that wasn't good enough for you because you had an overinflated opinion of what our offense would be rather than what it actually was. You got burned because you were wrong and so you blame Joe for all of that because there is no way in hell that Nick would not be a great passer or that our unknown receivers wouldn't pan out. Unfortunately both happened last year. Instead of moving on you and others continue to blame Joe and are ready to kick him out of the building.

Jackie inherited a pretty good team himself and beat some good teams- but he also lost to Memphis in year one. Dan's play calling against LSU at the end of the game and not challenging a call in year one cost us a bowl and a marquee program changing win over LSU.

I didn?t get burned. Our idiot genius offensive savant of a coach is the one that couldn?t coach up a great group of offensive players returning the best rushing an in the conference with a returning 1000 yard rusher. I?ve done nothing but speak reality to you but you refuse to see it. Our offensive production sucks under his leadership. Our discipline sucks under his leadership. Our hard nosed grinding attitude has gone out the door under his lead ship. All he has brought is sloppiness, undisciplined play and attitudes and a discombobulated mess of team in year two. You can tell when teams are progressing or if they see in regression. This program is not in a good place now and unless he changes a lot of things the culture he is bringing is one that will cost him his own job. Not Mullen, not the fans, not anyone else. Himself.

[Todd4State]

I didn?t get burned. Our idiot genius offensive savant of a coach is the one that couldn?t coach up a great group of offensive players returning the best rushing an in the conference with a returning 1000 yard rusher. I?ve done nothing but speak reality to you but you refuse to see it. Our offensive production sucks under his leadership. Our discipline sucks under his leadership. Our hard nosed grinding attitude has gone out the door under his lead ship. All he has brought is sloppiness, undisciplined play and attitudes and a discombobulated mess of team in year two. You can tell when teams are progressing or if they see in regression. This program is not in a good place now and unless he changes a lot of things the culture he is bringing is one that will cost him his own job. Not Mullen, not the fans, not anyone else. Himself.

The "reality" is for us to have the type of year that you perceived we have to able to throw AND run the ball to go along with a solid defense (I don't think we have to be number one to have a 10 win season) and solid special teams. We were second in the SEC YPG last year as far as rushing goes and coming into today is third in the SEC. In 2017 under Dan we were dead last in the SEC in passing. Last year we were 13th and right now we are 14th again. It's very clear what the issue is- and it was the same issue under Dan as well. If the great Dan Mullen couldn't coach them up in 2017 why would you expect anyone else to do so?

Again- this is part of the perception problem. You can only coach up players to an extent. Talent matters. And we failed at acquiring it through recruiting for several years at the WR and OT group. And that's only going to improve through recruiting- which we are doing and why that's encouraging to me on that front. Not to mention the receivers have been much better this year and I think we are going to settle on a QB which should cause the passing numbers to improve as the year goes along. We'll see.

As far as discipline goes- we are the second least penalized team in the SEC right now FWIW after being 10th last year. I think he needs to work on his communication at times a far as getting people in the right place at times. I do agree with that. I also think that could come with experience in the SEC. It seemed better with Shrader in the game and it also seems like the other group that has the most communication issues are on special teams where the Tutor gate has affected us a lot.

I just don't see us as "in a bad place" right now considering everything. I see us as where we were when Mullen left- and the stats back me up on that so far. And I see a lot of people bitching about that.

[Ari Gold]

You are completely ignoring he inherited a built to win team. He inherited the best defense we ever had and one of the best offensive players the sec has ever seen according the record books. Dan nor Jackie neither inherited nothing close to that.

Joe inherited a very good 2018 roster. But if you can’t see the lack of recruiting at some key positions the last couple years under Mullen and that staff then I can’t help. Results the gaps in the 2019 roster

Also like I said in another thread , Dans 2nd best year record wise was his second year at State 9-4 ( also went 9-4 again in 2015) . And who’s players were those??? Croom .. Also year 3 Dan goes 7-6 with a music city bowl win.. in year 5 Dan goes 7-6 with a Liberty bowl win... who’s the majority of those players? Dan

Just saying... it’s not like the guy won 9 games every year ...
is Joe the right fit here, maybe not , but at this point no one knows.

So to say Dan inherited shit is incorrect. He changed the culture that was shit that is correct, but players were there.

[Ari Gold]

And I was curious why we had a Tulane / Army thread in the first place. I was thinking there was major cash laid on the game or something.. which would have been awesome to follow.

Of course it turned into a bashing Joe thread after about 5 post. Shame on me for thinking different