At this point, how does Joe win you back over or lose you?

[Tbonewannabe]

For Joe to win me back over:

I need to see great "strain" in every game

We need to win 7-8 games. At minimum, he needs to win UK, UT, Ark, Abilene, and UM. If you add in at least one upset then we are a little up.
If he beats Bama to even get to 7 wins then he gets bonus points. If he gets to 6 wins then it is a push in my book. Less than 6 wins and I would consider how much the buyout is.

I need to see continued improved recruiting.

I need to see players actually develop. It seems like only a handful of players are better at this point and some seem worse this year compared to last.


For Joe to lose me:

Continue to look like we are sleepwalking through parts of games

Lose UK, Ark, or UM - Abilene is a gimme but lose that game and find your own ride home.

Have recruiting start going downhill.

Have another cluster17 of end of game playcalling like the last series. We might as well have just kneeled on the ball to run out the last 30 seconds. It looked like we had no clue what to do on offense. That was 100% coaching error and it cost us a shot at even attempting a Hail Mary to go with the crappy 3rd and 2 call.

[basedog]

Wake me up in year 4, too early to know, it's pretty hard when your transfer QB is hurt and you play a young true Freshman to know right now. Losing 3 first rounders is impossible to replace at Msu.

[bluelightstar]

Wake me up in year 4, too early to know, it's pretty hard when your transfer QB is hurt and you play a young true Freshman to know right now. Losing 3 first rounders is impossible to replace at Msu.

I agree with the bold part -- but it's not like we are suddenly losing because we're giving up 45 points a game. I want to give him a pass but it is just so frustrating to me that he apparently has to have the perfect QB for this offense to go.

[Tbonewannabe]

Wake me up in year 4, too early to know, it's pretty hard when your transfer QB is hurt and you play a young true Freshman to know right now. Losing 3 first rounders is impossible to replace at Msu.

So is there nothing he does that either puts you in the "extend him to 4 years" or how much is the buyout crowd? I would think most people wouldn't be too happy if we lose every game but Abilene. I am not sure any coach could survive that in the SEC, maybe at Vandy.

[Tbonewannabe]

I agree with the bold part -- but it's not like we are suddenly losing because we're giving up 45 points a game.

It also isn't like it was not expected.

[1bigdawg]

The transfer QB and the QB who would have started are both hurt. The RFr QB has an 8 game suspension. Then you are left with a true Fr who has not been prepared because there were arguably three in front of him.

Given all that, I believe Shrader played well.

[Dawgbite]

Beat Kentucky and at least play with some effort against Auburn and I'll get back on the bus and ride for awhile.

[Captain Falcon]

I wouldn't consider myself off the boat at this point, my view of the K-State game is that this was one that injuries and suspensions really hurt us in. I think most people will be generally fine as long as we win 6 or 7 games, and I put myself in that boat as well, but there will still be plenty of critics even at that point. If we were to upset Auburn or A&M and go 8-4 then that would help a lot with how he is perceived. That would be only our second winning conference record since 1999. Seems unlikely but who knows.

5-7 or worse and I'm a big skeptic and he's squarely on the hot seat next year.

[dawgday166]

I agree with the bold part -- but it's not like we are suddenly losing because we're giving up 45 points a game. I want to give him a pass but it is just so frustrating to me that he apparently has to have the perfect QB for this offense to go.

Perfect QB, speedburners at WR, Barkley type back (Kylin ain't that close either). No worries ... Those should all be easy to recruit to MSU.

[dantheman4248]

Joe would have to lose 2 of UK, UTK, Ark, and OM to lose me this year.

Abeline is a Maine loss. He'd be done then.

To earn year 5 Joe needs to beat one of LSU or Alabama in the next 3 years while going .500 or better against A&M, UK, East Opponent, NCST and Auburn and not losing more than once to Ark, OM, and the rest of the non-con combined.

[dantheman4248]

Perfect QB, speedburners at WR, Barkley type back (Kylin ain't that close either). No worries ... Those should all be easy to recruit to MSU.

He has a QB for the future that is talented enough to run his system. If he can't coach him up by his junior year then he's done. He needs a guy who knows and understand his system, not elite talent. His system Brains > Talent. But we already have the talent here. He fails with Shrader then it's clear it's a Joe problem. And yea, you need someone who can take the top off the defense in a vertical passing attack. Kylin is doing well enough in his system now that he's feeding him. Your comment comes across as he needs all 3 when really just 1 of those three things makes us a winner Saturday...

[StarkVegasSteve]

Beat Kentucky and UT and be competitive @Auburn and I'll at least go into the LSU game with a slight hope for a miracle.

[Cooterpoot]

Lose to TN, AR, or OM and I’m done. Two years of disappointing teams would be enough for me.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

For me, I want to see him make corrections and improvements more so than win certain games or hit a W-L number.

I want Joey Jones fired. I want a real S&C coach and an emphasis on physicality. I want to see signs the team is disciplined and respects Joe (WRs not running routes on the last play = they dont fear punishment for lack of effort). I want the all round coaching to be better on gameday- better clock management, better playcalling, real ST play, and no burning timeouts because we cant substitute.

[BulldogBear]

There are a lot of things but one thing is this.

Recognize that we need to attack the outside some in the running game, or at least adjust to it if the middle isn't there. Many times Saturday we watched Hill run into a huge pile in the middle when there were opportunities outside. Sometimes a RB will see this (it can be difficult) and bounce outside on his own. But sometimes you plan on it. I don't know that Joe's offensive philosophy contains much of it whether called or improvised.

This following is minor but is but one example of what I'm talking about. Let's pitch the dam ball already. We do this fake pitch 2-4 times a game and then the QB always keeps it and runs 1-2 yards. I would think it's supposed to be a read but it is either a really bad read half the time or it's planned. My guess is that's planned because there've been a few times the pitch man would've faired much better including once where he may have gone for 6 points.

[Pipedream]

For Joe to win me back over:

I need to see great "strain" in every game

We need to win 7-8 games. At minimum, he needs to win UK, UT, Ark, Abilene, and UM. If you add in at least one upset then we are a little up.
If he beats Bama to even get to 7 wins then he gets bonus points. If he gets to 6 wins then it is a push in my book. Less than 6 wins and I would consider how much the buyout is.

I need to see continued improved recruiting.

I need to see players actually develop. It seems like only a handful of players are better at this point and some seem worse this year compared to last.


For Joe to lose me:

Continue to look like we are sleepwalking through parts of games

Lose UK, Ark, or UM - Abilene is a gimme but lose that game and find your own ride home.

Have recruiting start going downhill.

Have another cluster17 of end of game playcalling like the last series. We might as well have just kneeled on the ball to run out the last 30 seconds. It looked like we had no clue what to do on offense. That was 100% coaching error and it cost us a shot at even attempting a Hail Mary to go with the crappy 3rd and 2 call.


For me, he's lost 4 games he should have won and only won 1 where we were the underdog. That's gonna have to even out or start trending that way really quickly which means he has to beat UK/UT/Ark/ACU/OM and steal 1 of the other 4 games for me to have any sort of faith that he can get the job done here.

[Pollodawg]

He doesn’t at this point. Beating a garbage Ole Miss team won’t save him with me this season.

[Dawgology]

He needs to beat UK, TN, ARK, Abilene, and UM. He drops one of those and I'm done completely with him. We still have a shot at an 8 win season IF we win those and win a bowl game. A 6 win season would be a disaster and a failure. I guess if he manages to win those and then win against AUB, TAMU, LSU, or BAMA then I would be all about Moorhead but...let's face it...that isn't happening.

[dantheman4248]

He needs to beat UK, TN, ARK, Abilene, and UM. He drops one of those and I'm done completely with him. We still have a shot at an 8 win season IF we win those and win a bowl game. A 6 win season would be a disaster and a failure. I guess if he manages to win those and then win against AUB, TAMU, LSU, or BAMA then I would be all about Moorhead but...let's face it...that isn't happening.

According to stats provided here we have the same output at QB as last year (with an injured starter and a True Freshman) and we beat Auburn / A&M last year. We’ve beaten A&M 3 years in a row. Why is beating them impossible?

[Dawgology]

According to stats provided here we have the same output at QB as last year (with an injured starter and a True Freshman) and we beat Auburn / A&M last year. We’ve beaten A&M 3 years in a row. Why is beating them impossible?

We beat them last year with the #1 defense in the nation. They couldn't score. Auburn never made it in the end zone and TAMU only made it in once. That won't be the case this year. The years before that we had an SEC football coach.

[dantheman4248]

We beat them last year with the #1 defense in the nation. They couldn't score. Auburn never made it in the end zone and TAMU only made it in once. That won't be the case this year. The years before that we had an SEC football coach.

That SEC football coach won a total of 3 games against teams that finished top 25 in 9 seasons. What makes you think he could do better? Especially given we wouldn’t have Stevens with him.

[StateDawg44]

Beat Kentucky and at least play with some effort against Auburn and I'll get back on the bus and ride for awhile.

This is it.

I'll still give him next year, but 2020 is for his job IMO.

[confucius say]

Just get to 7-5. Stay 7-5, 8-4 average and that would be best in school history since integration. Even dan was a 7.1-4.9 coach.

[Fader21]

I am still on the Moorhead train. His recruiting is the main thing that is keeping me here.

I think he loses me if gets blown out by the likes of UK, UT, OM. I get loses such as crazy things happening like 3 fumbles that bounces right in the hands of opponents can happen. Those type things are not the HC's fault. Now if we get blown out by 45-7 with 3 fumbles I would be pissed but a loss to the score of 45- 35 with the same scenario would piss me off but not at a coaching effort

[dawgday166]

I'm not on or off the wagon right now. I am behind Shoop tho. He is playing young players and they are doing ok for young players. Shoop can coach IMO ... course he needs good asst coaches too.

I'm in wait and see mode on Joe but I am beginning to feel like we were sold a bill of goods cause I watched a lot of videos on him prior to his first game and his offense was supposed to be somewhat easy to run (Fitz was gonna win the Heisman), he could scheme it well against superior talented teams, he could scheme against unblockable players, he produced several explosive plays per game, etc. Now that doesn't seem to be the case anymore and last year's offense was horrid cause of a horrible QB in Fitz & Mullen's recruiting.

Explosive plays was a selling point to me since, while you can beat a lot of teams pounding the ball and we have, to beat Bama you have to have explosive plays. You can't pound it out with Bama. They are too physical and have too much depth.

Besides the 7, 6, and 3 pts against KY, FL, and LSU going back to last year and the putrid offensive outputs associated with those losses, this year Joe's primary performance metric for winning ballgames reads like this.

Explosive plays: SEC Rank National Rank
10+yds 4 16
20+ yds 12 (TN & Vandy worse) 98
30+ yds 14 121
40,50,60 etc We have no plays over 40 yds so we're at best tied for last in these categories.

Last year our ranking in this category was better across the board against SEC only competition. Now I know that ULL & USM will both win their leagues **** and KSU will probably finish 2nd to Ok in Big 12 and may challenge them for the title ****. But still ... these ain't good numbers.

Now I will say I believe KState will surprise some folks, we'll have to see if they end up ranked or not.

If we show up and hit folks, our RB blocks LBs/other blitzers and gives max effort on plays he's not getting the ball on, one of our WRs starts giving max effort on any and every play and also catching the damn ball, we quit using stupid TOs to avoid penalties, quit coming out of TOs with 13 men on the field, and look like an organized, reasonably decently coached team from an offense and STeams perspective, then I can live with some losses to good teams. But we look pretty bad and not well coached IMO on offense & ST. And we also need to quit having all the suspensions too ... or was our culture really this bad?? I don't know, maybe Mullen let his players do whatever they wanted off the field and in the classroom. If so, I'll take the last one on suspensions back.

It's up to Joe to fix all this and if it don't get most of it fixed by the next 3 or so games then, I don't think he'll make it. Suspended players and injuries have nothing to do with a veteran Jr RB that won't block LBs and will get your QB killed, or a veteran SR WR that strolls through his routes and drops half the passes that hit him in the hands. Or a coaching staff putting 13 players on the field after a TO.

I do really like his recruiting so far. So I'm very hopeful he can get the rest of it squared away.

[99jc]

According to stats provided here we have the same output at QB as last year (with an injured starter and a True Freshman) and we beat Auburn / A&M last year. We?ve beaten A&M 3 years in a row. Why is beating them impossible?

geez you don't know yet!

[dantheman4248]

geez you don't know yet!

I agree. Some people really have way more faith in everyone but MSU. It's astounding.

[Dawgfan77]

He won?t get me back. In two years we look slow, out of shape, no give a damn. No flow to the offense game plan. Lack of discipline lack of motivation and lack of physicality. This is not going to change he has a trend and he isn?t going to be what we need at MSU. Recruiting is somewhat better sure but lack of development is another area he lacks in. Shoop is Ellis Johnson to Joevester

[timotheus]

THIS.

[bluelightstar]

In just 2 years, Moorhead has made it so that I somewhat expect we'll lose to frickin' Kentucky at home. It's unbelievable.

[Jack Lambert]

He has a lot of stuff going against him this season. I still think he better get to a bowl game.

[timotheus]

A loss to UK will not help in that matter.

[Dawgology]

That SEC football coach won a total of 3 games against teams that finished top 25 in 9 seasons. What makes you think he could do better? Especially given we wouldn’t have Stevens with him.

Because he did? You asked about the past three years so I answered based on your question. Lol

[Dawgology]

In just 2 years, Moorhead has made it so that I somewhat expect we'll lose to frickin' Kentucky at home. It's unbelievable.


This. I have no idea what team is going to take the field Saturday. And this is the second year. I swear some of y’all would be making excuses for a head coach even if we were into year 4. Everyone can see where this is headed but...hey...let’s give him another couple years and more excuses until we finally pull the plug on it.

[Tbonewannabe]

In just 2 years, Moorhead has made it so that I somewhat expect we'll lose to frickin' Kentucky at home. It's unbelievable.

Just want to mention, Mullen was a Kendrick Market ankle tackle away from losing to UK at home. He also lost at UK his last year that he went to Lexington. He did win a lot more than he lost but it wasn't like he never lost to them or had close games.

[Jack Lambert]

Just want to mention, Mullen was a Kendrick Market ankle tackle away from losing to UK at home. He also lost at UK his last year that he went to Lexington. He did win a lot more than he lost but it wasn't like he never lost to them or had close games.

Mullen also had two five win regular season and two six win regular seasons.

[HoopsDawg]

Become the CEO like Ed Orgereon. Hire a really good offensive coordinator and special teams coach and stay out of the way.

[bobtail bob]

I don't think he can bring me back. He's too laid back and accepts too many mistakes. Mark my words , he is a blowhard who won't ever contend for shit. The teams attitude has turned into being a nail instead of the hammer.
He' sucking the life out of the program game by game and if he's not run off quickly will reverse any momentum the we have built up since Croom.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If we lose the Egg at home to a OM team that is worse than the one we beat by 32 a year ago.....I would be highly upset

[timotheus]

video game offense works well in a video game. I'm figuring the 2020 year will do him in. I hate it but we may have a Biliema type situation brewing here.

[timotheus]

Oh get ready, the egg bowl will be a full pack of garbage from 2 flounders

[BhamDawg205]

Become the CEO like Ed Orgereon. Hire a really good offensive coordinator and special teams coach and stay out of the way.

This... a leader delegates. Jo has too many irons in the fire and it's showing on Saturdays. No discipline from coaches or players. No creativity on offense. He can find a like minded OC and guide the game plan.

[BrunswickDawg]

This... a leader delegates. Jo has too many irons in the fire and it's showing on Saturdays. No discipline from coaches or players. No creativity on offense. He can find a like minded OC and guide the game plan.

I'm not a big fan of HC being the play caller. There is just too much going on to be effective. I didn't like it when Moorhead said he was going to take a bigger roll in the offense this year. For the record - I think Mullen was too involved in the offense too.

[Scared_Hitless]

Honest question who is our designated offensive coordinator? I know Joe calls the plays, if I am Joe I am calling Joe Brady and making him a millionaire and the offensive coordinator for next season. They have history and he seems to have a great grasp of offensive game planning. JoMo needs less responsibility on offense as I dont like the coach calling plays. He has to make a move this offseason at minimum on special teams and S&C might as well see if he can bring in someone familiar for a few years to call plays.

[msstate7]

Honest question who is our designated offensive coordinator? I know Joe calls the plays, if I am Joe I am calling Joe Brady and making him a millionaire and the offensive coordinator for next season. They have history and he seems to have a great grasp of offensive game planning. JoMo needs less responsibility on offense as I dont like the coach calling plays. He has to make a move this offseason at minimum on special teams and S&C might as well see if he can bring in someone familiar for a few years to call plays.

Lsu isn't gonna let us take Brady. He will be their OC if that's what it takes

[Scared_Hitless]

Lsu isn't gonna let us take Brady. He will be their OC if that's what it takes

You still have to make the call, the problem would honestly be does Joe think he needs help. I am betting he is confident in his ability. Still we need some shakeup in a few places.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

He has a QB for the future that is talented enough to run his system. If he can't coach him up by his junior year then he's done. He needs a guy who knows and understand his system, not elite talent. His system Brains > Talent. But we already have the talent here. He fails with Shrader then it's clear it's a Joe problem. And yea, you need someone who can take the top off the defense in a vertical passing attack. Kylin is doing well enough in his system now that he's feeding him. Your comment comes across as he needs all 3 when really just 1 of those three things makes us a winner Saturday...

It came across to me as sarcasm.

[Political Hack]

Anybody else think Mullen saw this decline coming with the kids we have on campus and exited stage left right before it falls apart?

[Tbonewannabe]

Anybody else think Mullen saw this decline coming with the kids we have on campus and exited stage left right before it falls apart?

I don't think so, it wasn't like he wasn't actively looking for another job. I think the UT/UF job was the first job that didn't fall through (Miami, Maryland, and UGA). He was actively looking but we kept increasing his salary so unless he wanted a pay cut then he was staying. He could have another 10 win season in 2018 if he had stayed. Now this year might have been a drop off but I don't think he left due to that. He proved that he could at least make a bowl game and that was enough to keep pressure off especially if we had just came off of a 10 win season.

[Political Hack]

I think he knew he wasn't going to be able to win a national championship at a state and was rumored to have told the Pres that if he couldn't win it with Dak, he won't be able to win one at State. I don't think he left because he was scared we'd start having losing seasons, but I think he left because he saw a ceiling at State and knew he had hit it or at least come close.

[Maroonthirteen]

Mullen left to get away from OM buying recruits from
Him.

A higher ceiling ..... NC.

Also I?m sure a change of scenery for Megan and the kids.

[sleepy dawg]

I would love to see 007 respond to the original post.

[Tbonewannabe]

I would love to see 007 respond to the original post.

It would be interesting to see what it would take for 007 to think we needed to make a change this year. Not many people actually talked about how Joe could get them back on the wagon. Of course a bowl game and a Bama win always does it for pretty much everyone. I think putting up 20+ points a game against AU, A&M, LSU, and Bama would give him a lot more leeway with even the doubters. The offensive guru needs to show some offense against teams that have a normal SEC defense. I think even if we ran some variation of the game plan against AU that people would at least give him props for sticking with something that worked.

[msstate7]

I would love to see 007 respond to the original post.

Not be state's coach. As soon as the new one was hired, he'd immediately start blaming all the troubles at that time on Moorhead

[Lord McBuckethead]

For me, I want to see him make corrections and improvements more so than win certain games or hit a W-L number.

I want Joey Jones fired. I want a real S&C coach and an emphasis on physicality. I want to see signs the team is disciplined and respects Joe (WRs not running routes on the last play = they dont fear punishment for lack of effort). I want the all round coaching to be better on gameday- better clock management, better playcalling, real ST play, and no burning timeouts because we cant substitute.

The last play was supposed to be a spike. Drop that shit.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Just note: I am not off the Moorhead wagon.

[Johnson85]

Anybody else think Mullen saw this decline coming with the kids we have on campus and exited stage left right before it falls apart?

I'm sure Mullen knew he was leaving some problems, but he was just ready go. Maybe if he had done a better job with roster management he would have tried to see what he could do with the 2018 team, but I doubt it. IF he was willing to go to UT, then he was clearly just looking for a change of scenery.

[Coursesuper]

I think he knew he wasn't going to be able to win a national championship at a state and was rumored to have told the Pres that if he couldn't win it with Dak, he won't be able to win one at State. I don't think he left because he was scared we'd start having losing seasons, but I think he left because he saw a ceiling at State and knew he had hit it or at least come close.

You are absolutely correct, he wanted a program that had the resources and name recognition to give him a chance to win the big prize. He knew he couldn't do that at MSU. Like it or not that's the truth.

[timotheus]

It's a bungled offense plain and simple and it will continue. I wish I saw something to make me say otherwise.

[Cooterpoot]

When the pay site guys aren’t coming out to support Moorhead, you know it’s bad.

[Dawgfan77]

The fact in year two we have to use TO after play has been stopped due to change of possession or TV timeout show the disorganized chaos we have. We are football dumb team. The guy has no idea how to run an sec program

[timotheus]

When the attendance continues to be dismal, it's only a matter of time. Once the coach speak answers wear off a bit more and the results don't match the expectations, it'll be time.

[Cooterpoot]

The Moorhead hire was similar to the Croom hire in that fans didn’t like it from day one. He was a surprise out of left field. He’s looking like a similar hire to Peter Sirmon, who was supposedly the coaching flavor of the week and the next great DC.
Cohen out thought himself again. Personally, I don’t see this ever working out. Hopefully I’m wrong.

[dawgday166]

He has a QB for the future that is talented enough to run his system. If he can't coach him up by his junior year then he's done. He needs a guy who knows and understand his system, not elite talent. His system Brains > Talent. But we already have the talent here. He fails with Shrader then it's clear it's a Joe problem. And yea, you need someone who can take the top off the defense in a vertical passing attack. Kylin is doing well enough in his system now that he's feeding him. Your comment comes across as he needs all 3 when really just 1 of those three things makes us a winner Saturday...

I do think he needs all three to play with upper echelon of SEC. Damn sure needs a very smart/accurate QB. Those aren't a dime a dozen. If they were you'd have all kinds of QBs looking like Dak or above on college Saturdays. Can he develop one ... don't know and probably not. He probably could get by with NFL QB, a Kylin that will block, and a Fred Ross type WR.

Guarantee you tho if Tommy starts getting nailed like Fitz did last year and then his throws start coming out early, sailing, etc. ... it will then be he doesn't have the WR talent to take his offense to next level.

Bottom line to me tho and why I believe he probably won't work out is ... when you're playing and have stuck with guys for 2 seasons now that don't put out 100% on every play if they ain't getting the ball, then you gonna lose games. And if it were me, I'd rather lose with the the guy putting 100% out most times.

[timotheus]

Joe actually thinks that he confuses the defense. Good film study prep has good smart defenses one step ahead of him and the rest shall we say will be history.

[Tbonewannabe]

The Moorhead hire was similar to the Croom hire in that fans didn’t like it from day one. He was a surprise out of left field. He’s looking like a similar hire to Peter Sirmon, who was supposedly the coaching flavor of the week and the next great DC.
Cohen out thought himself again. Personally, I don’t see this ever working out. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Not saying that Moorhead will work out but comparing him to Croom when hired is completely moronic. He was one of the top offensive coordinators in college football. He might be in over his head as a SEC head coach but most national football guys thought we made a very good hire.

[Homedawg]

Still waiting on all this two back and two tight end everyone said we were getting. We did run a few plays out of two te against usm near the goal line. But that's it that I've seen. He's an 11 personnel guy. That's what he does. Says he knows how the defense is going to lineup.... so why do we have to check w him every play if he knows??

[msstate7]

Still waiting on all this two back and two tight end everyone said we were getting. We did run a few plays out of two te against usm near the goal line. But that's it that I've seen. He's an 11 personnel guy. That's what he does. Says he knows how the defense is going to lineup.... so why do we have to check w him every play if he knows??

It's coming... probably saving it for when we break jerry rice aka j. Payton out