JoMo has lost 4 Games in Which He was a 6.5 Point Favorite or Better

[ShotgunDawg]

We can make all the excuses in the world & some are valid, but JoMo is 10-6 at MSU with 4 of those 6 losses coming in games in which he was a 6.5 point favorite or better.

Folks, that is bad. There is no other way to frame it.

You can't sit here & say Vegas is awesome & then find every excuse in the book as to why MSU is consistently worse under Moorhead than Vegas thinks we should be.

You can't have it both ways

[Gutter Cobreh]

We can make all the excuses in the world & some are valid, but JoMo is 10-6 at MSU with 4 of those 6 losses coming in games in which he was a 6.5 point favorite or better.

Folks, that is bad. There is no other way to frame it.

You can't sit here & say Vegas is awesome & then find every excuse in the book as to why MSU is consistently worse under Moorhead than Vegas thinks we should be.

You can't have it both ways

You have to be getting paid to create content for this board, otherwise I'm at a loss...

[msstate7]

Joe has a chance to correct this disturbing trend this week. I can't state how big this game is for joe.

[msstate7]

You have to be getting paid to create content for this board, otherwise I'm at a loss...

When you don't like the subject, you never try to argue it... just straight to attacking the poster. You, turfdawg, and Rez are the unquestioned leaders in this tactic

[ShotgunDawg]

You have to be getting paid to create content for this board, otherwise I'm at a loss...

No. MSU football is close to my heart & I refuse to see it fall into irrelevance without kicking & screaming.

[ShotgunDawg]

Joe has a chance to correct this disturbing trend this week. I can't state how big this game is for joe.

I suspect we'll play great this weekend & everyone will be happy again, but then get the crap kicked out of us at Tennessee & be left with our hands in the air again

[dawgday166]

I suspect we'll play great this weekend & everyone will be happy again, but then get the crap kicked out of us at Tennessee & be left with our hands in the air again

That's exactly what will happen. I'm purt near willing to bet on it. And when we lose I'm betting it's with a healthy Tommy at QB. And it will still be Mullen's and Fitz' fault *

ETA: And some folks will be saying after TN loss "but Tommy played so great against USM ... I don't understand it".

[ShotgunDawg]

That's exactly what will happen. I'm purt near willing to bet on it. And when we lose I'm betting it's with a healthy Tommy at QB. And it will still be Mullen's and Fitz' fault *

There just seems to be weeks where this coaching staff doesn't prepare. Like at all.

There is absolutely no consistency

[dawgday166]

We only got 2 running plays and 3 pass plays. The innovation is "wowing" me.

[Gutter Cobreh]

When you don't like the subject, you never try to argue it... just straight to attacking the poster. You, turfdawg, and Rez are the unquestioned leaders in this tactic

I didn't attack Shotgun; just simply made an observation.


Joe has a chance to correct this disturbing trend this week. I can't state how big this game is for joe.

Here is a reminder of what you posted the other day in the game thread: "Season is going no where regardless of today's outcome." If that is the case, then the next game isn't any more important than any other game left on the schedule. Please be consistent.

[ShotgunDawg]

We only got 2 running plays and 3 pass plays. The innovation is "wowing" me.

K-State called timeout on offense the other day & we sent 13 players back on the field, after a timeout, on defense. Unreal how unorganized we are. That has nothing to do with suspensions

[msstate7]

I didn't attack Shotgun; just simply made an observation.



Here is a reminder of what you posted the other day in the game thread: "Season is going no where regardless of today's outcome." If that is the case, then the next game isn't any more important than any other game left on the schedule. Please be consistent.

Tell that to joe who has a 7-figure salary. This game is huge for him. He will not be fired this year, but he would be well on his way with a loss

ETA... and I still think this season is going no where special. 7 wins max if everything goes perfect for us

[Gutter Cobreh]

No. MSU football is close to my heart & I refuse to see it fall into irrelevance without kicking & screaming.

We're not "falling into irrelevance" because we lost to KSU.


I suspect we'll play great this weekend & everyone will be happy again, but then get the crap kicked out of us at Tennessee & be left with our hands in the air again

This is a narrative I can see happening.

[ShotgunDawg]

I didn't attack Shotgun; just simply made an observation.
.

Uh no, you attacked me you prick

[confucius say]

We can make all the excuses in the world & some are valid, but JoMo is 10-6 at MSU with 4 of those 6 losses coming in games in which he was a 6.5 point favorite or better.

Folks, that is bad. There is no other way to frame it.

You can't sit here & say Vegas is awesome & then find every excuse in the book as to why MSU is consistently worse under Moorhead than Vegas thinks we should be.

You can't have it both ways

Devils advocate.

1. Vegas is awesome. Who said that?
2. Has he won any games the supposed talent level says he should not have won? Aub and Aggie come to mind.
3. If this time last week you knew no tommy, no Parker, no Gibson, no Dantzler, no gay, and no autry would your expectations have changed playing against a top 25 team in front of 30k? Serious question. Bc I think if you are being honest you would say that would be tough.

[msstate7]

Devils advocate.

1. Vegas is awesome. Who said that?
2. Has he won any games the supposed talent level says he should not have won? Aub and Aggie come to mind.
3. If this time last week you knew no tommy, no Parker, no Gibson, no Dantzler, no gay, and no autry would your expectations have changed playing against a top 25 team in front of 30k? Serious question. Bc I think if you are being honest you would say that would be tough.

At some point, do we hold our current HC responsible for a loss?

[ShotgunDawg]

Devils advocate.

1. Vegas is awesome. Who said that?
2. Has he won any games the supposed talent level says he should not have won? Aub and Aggie come to mind.
3. If this time last week you knew no tommy, no Parker, no Gibson, no Dantzler, no gay, and no autry would your expectations have changed playing against a top 25 team in front of 30k? Serious question. Bc I think if you are being honest you would say that would be tough.

1. Yes, most people praise Vegas
2. This is what makes is it the more confusing. Moorhead flashes good, but can't replicate organized & prepared week to week.
3. Then why did Vegas have us as such big favorites? It's their job to have a finger on the pulse of that stuff. Injuries alter lines every week

[Gutter Cobreh]

Tell that to joe who has a 7-figure salary. This game is huge for him. He will not be fired this year, but he would be well on his way with a loss

And there in lies the difference between you and I. You look at things from an individual perspective, while I look at things from a team (school) perspective.

If Joe succeeds, then the school and team succeed. Your posts (like the one stating "the season is going no where") indicate that you'd rather be correct that Joe isn't the one who needs to be leading the program over us actually winning games.

[bluelightstar]

Am I right that Mullen had 3 such losses in 9 years?

[Gutter Cobreh]

Uh no, you attacked me you prick

Wait, wait - just so I'm clear... I posted that you had to be getting paid to create content... Yet, you turn around and comment and call me a "prick". And I'm the one who is attacking???

Here are the definitions:
Observation - the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.
Verbal Attack - the act of forcefully criticizing, insulting, or denouncing another person.

Where does my initial post fall within those definitions, as opposed to your reply?

[TrapGame]

At some point, do we hold our current HC responsible for a loss?

Sure. But that's not what you want. You want the man tarred, feathered and run out of town.

I just don't get this notion from some of y'all that we need to have the next Saban or Dabo on the sideline. There are PLENTY of P5 programs with head coaches far, far worse than Joe. And if you guys keep this shit up we're gonna get one.

[ShotgunDawg]

Am I right that Mullen had 3 such losses in 9 years?

It wouldn't surprise me.

South AL
Ole Miss x 2
Maybe BYU or @ KY in the Sirmon year?

Not sure

[Gutter Cobreh]

Sure. But that's not what you want. You want the man tarred, feathered and run out of town.

I just don't get this notion from some of y'all that we need to have the next Saban or Dabo on the sideline. There are PLENTY of P5 programs with head coaches far, far worse than Joe. And if you guys keep this shit up we're gonna get one.

Oh and the joy it would bring them...

[ShotgunDawg]

Sure. But that's not what you want. You want the man tarred, feathered and run out of town.

I just don't get this notion from some of y'all that we need to have the next Saban or Dabo on the sideline. There are PLENTY of P5 programs with head coaches far, far worse than Joe. And if you guys keep this shit up we're gonna get one.

So we should be happy because we don't have the worst power 5 coach?

We do need the next Saban or Dabo on sideline to compete for championships & it's clear that JoMo ain't that. Very clear. What the point of having a program if you aren't willing to compete at the highest level?

As for your last part, are you saying that we'll hire a worse coach than Moorhead? If so, why would we hire a worse coach?

[msstate7]

Sure. But that's not what you want. You want the man tarred, feathered and run out of town.

I just don't get this notion from some of y'all that we need to have the next Saban or Dabo on the sideline. There are PLENTY of P5 programs with head coaches far, far worse than Joe. And if you guys keep this shit up we're gonna get one.

List of people to blame for joe's shortcomings:
1. Fitz
2. Mullen
3. Players cheating (under Moorhead's watch BTW)
4. msstate7

[TrapGame]

So we should be happy because we don't have the worst power 5 coach?

We do need the next Saban or Dabo on sideline to compete for championships & it's clear that JoMo ain't that. Very clear. What the point of having a program if you aren't willing to compete at the highest level?

As for your last part, are you saying that we'll hire a worse coach than Moorhead? If so, why would we hire a worse coach?

My God you're clueless. Post less, listen more.

I'm done. There is no reasoning with you guys. Joe ain't as bad as y'all think he is but go on keep the negative waves flowing.

[ShotgunDawg]

List of people to blame for joe's shortcomings:
1. Fitz
2. Mullen
3. Players cheating (under Moorhead's watch BTW)
4. msstate7

He's still the substitute teacher. The way our team plays under him is exactly the way you & I behaved in middle school when we had a substitute teacher

[ShotgunDawg]

My God you're clueless. Post less, listen more.

I'm done. There is no reasoning with you guys. Joe ain't as bad as y'all think he is but go on keep the negative waves flowing.

He's lost 4 games out of 16 when he's a 6.5 point favorite or greater.

That's likely the worst record in the country with that point spread

Maybe he's not as bad as I think, but I don't want bad. Our program can't survive with anything other than good.

[dawgs]

And there in lies the difference between you and I. You look at things from an individual perspective, while I look at things from a team (school) perspective.

If Joe succeeds, then the school and team succeed. Your posts (like the one stating "the season is going no where") indicate that you'd rather be correct that Joe isn't the one who needs to be leading the program over us actually winning games.

I ****ing hate when a response to fair criticism is "you'd rather lose and be right than win", which is a totally illogical leap to make imo.

[msugolf]

We can make all the excuses in the world & some are valid, but JoMo is 10-6 at MSU with 4 of those 6 losses coming in games in which he was a 6.5 point favorite or better.

Folks, that is bad. There is no other way to frame it.

You can't sit here & say Vegas is awesome & then find every excuse in the book as to why MSU is consistently worse under Moorhead than Vegas thinks we should be.

You can't have it both ways

It'll be 5 after this weekend.

[msstate7]

I ****ing hate when a response to fair criticism is "you'd rather lose and be right than win", which is a totally illogical leap to make imo.

All he has

[dawgday166]

It wouldn't surprise me.

South AL
Ole Miss x 2
Maybe BYU or @ KY in the Sirmon year?

Not sure

Actually I think OM x 3. 2012, 2014, 2017.

[msstate7]

Actually I think OM x 3. 2012, 2014, 2017.

And this still burns me up about my boy, Mullen. Jimbo would've won those haha

[dawgday166]

And this still burns me up about my boy, Mullen. Jimbo would've won those haha

I had my share of complaints with Mullen but this is the biggest one ... always losing to OM when having 8 wins or more going into that game. Those are probably 2 or 3 of Mullen's losses when heavily favored.

[smootness]

Actually I think OM x 3. 2012, 2014, 2017.

You think we were 6.5+ point favorites over OM in 2014?

[Pipedream]

Actually I think OM x 3. 2012, 2014, 2017.

Here is the list of games Mullen lost as a favorite from my research:

2011- @Auburn
2012- Northwestern (Gator Bowl) and maybe OM(this line opened a State favorite then moved to a pickem and eventually had OM as a favorite, but it was close)
2014-GT(Orange Bowl), OM (this line opened with us as a favorite, but ended up at OM -1 so take from that what you will)
2016- USA/BYU/UK
2017-OM (Fitz broken leg game)

So it's somewhere between 7 and 9 games and only 2 of those games were losses when we were a 7+ point favorite-USA and 2017 OM game.

[Cooterpoot]

I don?t think people need convincing that Moorhead has to do better. We?re beating that horse to death.

[dawgday166]

You think we were 6.5+ point favorites over OM in 2014?

No I didn't but they were really banged up going into that game ... but it was at OM. I thought we should wax them as banged up as they were. We might've lost anyway but losing Cox before game then his backup Market during game really hurt our backend. And taking that one play off on OM RBs reversed field housed 90+yd TD was backbreaker. Bottom line tho: Mullen didn't have us ready to play IMO.

[StateDawg44]

No. MSU football is close to my heart & I refuse to see it fall into irrelevance without kicking & screaming.

A true message board inspiration for us all.....

Where would MSU be without you taking it to the streets!?

[msstate7]

Here is the list of games Mullen lost as a favorite from my research:

2011- @Auburn
2012- Northwestern (Gator Bowl) and maybe OM(this line opened a State favorite then moved to a pickem and eventually had OM as a favorite, but it was close)
2014-GT(Orange Bowl), OM (this line opened with us as a favorite, but ended up at OM -1 so take from that what you will)
2016- USA/BYU/UK
2017-OM (Fitz broken leg game)

So it's somewhere between 7 and 9 games and only 2 of those games were losses when we were a 7+ point favorite-USA and 2017 OM game.

2 in 9 years vs 4 in 1.25 years, wow

[dantheman4248]

That's exactly what will happen. I'm purt near willing to bet on it. And when we lose I'm betting it's with a healthy Tommy at QB. And it will still be Mullen's and Fitz' fault *

ETA: And some folks will be saying after TN loss "but Tommy played so great against USM ... I don't understand it".

I know this is directed at me so I?ll go ahead and tell you what the narrative will (and should) be given this hypothetical. That Tommy was mentally broken and weakened from his injury and he didn?t have the mettle to power through it. I?d be extremely disappointed if that were the case. The kid doesn?t seem to have that about him but you never know. I think once he?s healthy he bounces back and causes a lot of people to eat crow. I?ll go down eating crow for believing in the best flashes of what I see in MSU guys, don?t care if that bothers you.

I think we can all agree that if Moorhead?s offense is firing on all cylinders (big if, but so is a healthy Tommy losing to UTK) that MSU could reach heights a MSU offense never has before in the passing and running game. Don?t look now but a True Freshman QB for a Will Muschamp team scored 23 on Alabama. They are dealing with a lot of injuries in that front 7. Don?t be shocked if this is the year we drop 3-4 games we shouldn?t but screw around and beat LSU or Alabama. Moorhead?s offensive success is volatile and everyone is saying it only works against ?soft? teams. Well Bama / LSU?s defenses look softer through 3 games then they?ve looked in years...

But hey I?m only allowed to be critical of MSU so we?re gonna lose to UK, Auburn, UTK, LSU, A&M and maybe even Arkansas and OM at this rate***

[confucius say]

1. Yes, most people praise Vegas
2. This is what makes is it the more confusing. Moorhead flashes good, but can't replicate organized & prepared week to week.
3. Then why did Vegas have us as such big favorites? It's their job to have a finger on the pulse of that stuff. Injuries alter lines every week

1. Again, who?
3. Vegas job is not to set a line that is an accurate prediction of the game. You know that.

[bostondawg]

What were the lines last year against Auburn and Texas A&M?

[Pipedream]

What were the lines last year against Auburn and Texas A&M?

Lines opened Auburn -3 vs State and stayed there
Line for A&M game opened MSU -2 and closed at A&M -1

[dawgday166]

I know this is directed at me so I?ll go ahead and tell you what the narrative will (and should) be given this hypothetical. That Tommy was mentally broken and weakened from his injury and he didn?t have the mettle to power through it. I?d be extremely disappointed if that were the case. The kid doesn?t seem to have that about him but you never know. I think once he?s healthy he bounces back and causes a lot of people to eat crow. I?ll go down eating crow for believing in the best flashes of what I see in MSU guys, don?t care if that bothers you.

I think we can all agree that if Moorhead?s offense is firing on all cylinders (big if, but so is a healthy Tommy losing to UTK) that MSU could reach heights a MSU offense never has before in the passing and running game. Don?t look now but a True Freshman QB for a Will Muschamp team scored 23 on Alabama. They are dealing with a lot of injuries in that front 7. Don?t be shocked if this is the year we drop 3-4 games we shouldn?t but screw around and beat LSU or Alabama. Moorhead?s offensive success is volatile and everyone is saying it only works against ?soft? teams. Well Bama / LSU?s defenses look softer through 3 games then they?ve looked in years...

But hey I?m only allowed to be critical of MSU so we?re gonna lose to UK, Auburn, UTK, LSU, A&M and maybe even Arkansas and OM at this rate***

I won't be eating crow cause I haven't said whether he's good or bad yet. I'm waiting to see. Lot of things go into being a good QB. One of those is remaining upright and being able to take a lick. Right now I'm not sure he's going to remain upright much this year.

I am praying he's every bit as good as you and others have proclaimed. But we at MSU, and other fanbases too, always anointing the next savior of the program. KT was supposed to be better than Fitz last year cause Fitz sucked. I wasn't convinced Fitz "sucked" then, nor am I now either (although I will say he sucked against LSU and Bama). In reality tho, it may be the OC who sucks.

[smootness]

No I didn't but they were really banged up going into that game ... but it was at OM. I thought we should wax them as banged up as they were. We might've lost anyway but losing Cox before game then his backup Market during game really hurt our backend. And taking that one play off on OM RBs reversed field housed 90+yd TD was backbreaker. Bottom line tho: Mullen didn't have us ready to play IMO.

That's all well and good, but you were claiming that was a loss in which we were favored by 6.5+. We absolutely were not.

[dantheman4248]

delete

[dawgday166]

That's all well and good, but you were claiming that was a loss in which we were favored by 6.5+. We absolutely were not.

Going back to original post you're right. I put 2014 in there cause to me that was a very bad loss, although I'm guessing (don't know) we weren't favored by more than 2 or so, if that.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I won't be eating crow cause I haven't said whether he's good or bad yet. I'm waiting to see. Lot of things go into being a good QB. One of those is remaining upright and being able to take a lick. Right now I'm not sure he's going to remain upright much this year.

I am praying he's every bit as good as you and others have proclaimed. But we at MSU, and other fanbases too, always anointing the next savior of the program. KT was supposed to be better than Fitz last year cause Fitz sucked. I wasn't convinced Fitz "sucked" then, nor am I now either (although I will say he sucked against LSU and Bama). In reality tho, it may be the OC who sucks.

A true Freshman QB has run the offense at a faster clip (small sample size) than our 5th yr. QB ever did last year. I haven't, through 3 games, seen the offense as sluggish as it appeared last year. We are connecting on more vertical passing plays, which helps. The competition hasn't been as stout, so I guess time will tell.

[confucius say]

Can any of you identify a team that has beaten a top 25 team despite not having its qb, 6 starters (not including Gibson), and playing a true freshman qb? I cannot think of one.

Truth is, Kan St is better than we thought and we should have played autry and gay, especially knowing TS was not healthy

[dawgday166]

A true Freshman QB has run the offense at a faster clip (small sample size) than our 5th yr. QB ever did last year. I haven't, through 3 games, seen the offense as sluggish as it appeared last year. We are connecting on more vertical passing plays, which helps. The competition hasn't been as stout, so I guess time will tell.

We're 71st in Total O at 411 yd/game against the stellar competition we've faced. I'm guessing Shrader is better than Dak now too **

[dantheman4248]

I won't be eating crow cause I haven't said whether he's good or bad yet. I'm waiting to see. Lot of things go into being a good QB. One of those is remaining upright and being able to take a lick. Right now I'm not sure he's going to remain upright much this year.

I am praying he's every bit as good as you and others have proclaimed. But we at MSU, and other fanbases too, always anointing the next savior of the program. KT was supposed to be better than Fitz last year cause Fitz sucked. I wasn't convinced Fitz "sucked" then, nor am I now either (although I will say he sucked against LSU and Bama). In reality tho, it may be the OC who sucks.

Idk anyone who genuinely believed KT was the savior. People clamoring for him are people who clamor to change the QB when we’re losing because they think that’s a fix-all.

As for Fitz. Fitz was not a good QB here at MSU. Fitz was (and is) an elite talent who we had one coach be able to turn into a good to great college player, while another failed miserably and made his weaknesses stand out. Part of the problem was Fitz going from basically an Elite High School offense and concepts to NFL level concepts. Some college players can’t handle that. A lot of QBs transitioning from college to pro can’t handle that. That change takes time. If Moorhead had Fitz from the start who knows what he would have gotten out of him. Now people wanting to clamor about Dak from his JR to SR year and how Mullen took him from runner to QB; Mullen transitioned Dak very well. Nick was a straight jump while Dak was a gradual climb. It smoothed Dak’s process into the NFL. Fist wasn’t so lucky and now he’s hanging on in practice squads based on talent. Hopefully he’s taking time to learn to mentally be better at the game. If so, it wouldn’t shock me to learn Fitz is a starter in 5 years.

The OC/HC here has already proven the lack of ability to adapt their system to the QB. It doesn’t work when the QB isn’t 100% with the system or can’t just plain out talent the opponent. The flashes I’ve seen of it firing on all cylinders give me hope. Now if you’re gonna call having a system that when run properly can compete with anyone in the country as a sucky offensive coordinator because he can’t adapt it to people who can’t run it properly that’s totally your prerogative. I don’t know if I agree or disagree with that. I’d tend to agree if it was lower level competition, but then disagree once you get into higher level competition if that makes sense. College football at the top is all about having the talent that fits your team and system. Moorhead hasn’t even gotten to year 3 or 4 yet when we really see this take hold. So jury is out on how successful it can be and how he can do with his guys. As for the statement that his system can shrink the talent gap and can plug and play anyone, that was a dead lie and he needs to stop believing that himself.

[mparkerfd20]

It'll be 5 after this weekend.

I agree. We are going to lose to UK. No clue why we are favored tho.

[Homedawg]

I agree. We are going to lose to UK. No clue why we are favored tho.

I think we have a legit shot to win. Sure, we might lose. But it's at home and a game we should win. I'm not chalking it up as a L yet.

[Gutter Cobreh]

We're 71st in Total O at 411 yd/game against the stellar competition we've faced. I'm guessing Shrader is better than Dak now too **

Simmer down... All I was suggesting is that we are running plays at a faster rate than we did all of last year. I'm not speaking on results of those plays, but simply pointing out that we are no longer winding the play clock down to 1 before snapping it.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Idk anyone who genuinely believed KT was the savior. People clamoring for him are people who clamor to change the QB when we’re losing because they think that’s a fix-all.

As for Fitz. Fitz was not a good QB here at MSU. Fitz was (and is) an elite talent who we had one coach be able to turn into a good to great college player, while another failed miserably and made his weaknesses stand out. Part of the problem was Fitz going from basically an Elite High School offense and concepts to NFL level concepts. Some college players can’t handle that. A lot of QBs transitioning from college to pro can’t handle that. That change takes time. If Moorhead had Fitz from the start who knows what he would have gotten out of him. Now people wanting to clamor about Dak from his JR to SR year and how Mullen took him from runner to QB; Mullen transitioned Dak very well. Nick was a straight jump while Dak was a gradual climb. It smoothed Dak’s process into the NFL. Fist wasn’t so lucky and now he’s hanging on in practice squads based on talent. Hopefully he’s taking time to learn to mentally be better at the game. If so, it wouldn’t shock me to learn Fitz is a starter in 5 years.

The OC/HC here has already proven the lack of ability to adapt their system to the QB. It doesn’t work when the QB isn’t 100% with the system or can’t just plain out talent the opponent. The flashes I’ve seen of it firing on all cylinders give me hope. Now if you’re gonna call having a system that when run properly can compete with anyone in the country as a sucky offensive coordinator because he can’t adapt it to people who can’t run it properly that’s totally your prerogative. I don’t know if I agree or disagree with that. I’d tend to agree if it was lower level competition, but then disagree once you get into higher level competition if that makes sense. College football at the top is all about having the talent that fits your team and system. Moorhead hasn’t even gotten to year 3 or 4 yet when we really see this take hold. So jury is out on how successful it can be and how he can do with his guys. As for the statement that his system can shrink the talent gap and can plug and play anyone, that was a dead lie and he needs to stop believing that himself.

Mullen was also getting his head kicked in this past weekend with Franks in the game. Franks gets hurt and Trask leads them to victory with better passing. Let's not act like Mullen doesn't have faults when it comes to QB. If memory serves me correctly, he prefers upperclassman over talent.

[dantheman4248]

Mullen was also getting his head kicked in this past weekend with Franks in the game. Franks gets hurt and Trask leads them to victory with better passing. Let's not act like Mullen doesn't have faults when it comes to QB. If memory serves me correctly, he prefers upperclassman over talent.

Mullen definitely does. And personally I think we saw Mullen’s cap at what he can teach QBs with Dak. Imagine if he had realized what everyone did by the Northwestern Bowl game that Dak needed to be starting, not statue man Tyler Russell. But he’s always had that fault and seems to keep it going. I think Moorhead’s ceiling for a QB will be proven to be much higher.

[Coach007]

We can make all the excuses in the world & some are valid, but JoMo is 10-6 at MSU with 4 of those 6 losses coming in games in which he was a 6.5 point favorite or better.

Folks, that is bad. There is no other way to frame it.

You can't sit here & say Vegas is awesome & then find every excuse in the book as to why MSU is consistently worse under Moorhead than Vegas thinks we should be.

You can't have it both ways

He is also off to the best start as a HC at MS St since Allen McKeen.

Now what?

[dawgs]

I know this is directed at me so I?ll go ahead and tell you what the narrative will (and should) be given this hypothetical. That Tommy was mentally broken and weakened from his injury and he didn?t have the mettle to power through it. I?d be extremely disappointed if that were the case. The kid doesn?t seem to have that about him but you never know. I think once he?s healthy he bounces back and causes a lot of people to eat crow. I?ll go down eating crow for believing in the best flashes of what I see in MSU guys, don?t care if that bothers you.

I think we can all agree that if Moorhead?s offense is firing on all cylinders (big if, but so is a healthy Tommy losing to UTK) that MSU could reach heights a MSU offense never has before in the passing and running game. Don?t look now but a True Freshman QB for a Will Muschamp team scored 23 on Alabama. They are dealing with a lot of injuries in that front 7. Don?t be shocked if this is the year we drop 3-4 games we shouldn?t but screw around and beat LSU or Alabama. Moorhead?s offensive success is volatile and everyone is saying it only works against ?soft? teams. Well Bama / LSU?s defenses look softer through 3 games then they?ve looked in years...

But hey I?m only allowed to be critical of MSU so we?re gonna lose to UK, Auburn, UTK, LSU, A&M and maybe even Arkansas and OM at this rate***

Stevens definitely has a bum shoulder. Probably something that needs rest to heal up but doesn't require season ending surgery (shoulder impingement? Sprain?) so it comes down to how well he can throw through it, and he missed some wide open guys Saturday that he would not have missed prior to the injury. It wasn't that he couldn't find the open guys or got it into a small opening, he was throwing to guys with plenty of space, just off target. Right before his pick I texted a couple friends and said his shoulder is not healthy cause he'd be hitting those throws if it was. Next play he throws a pick (that K-state fumbled back) and doesn't play another down all game.

[PMDawg]

You have to be getting paid to create content for this board, otherwise I'm at a loss...

Why? What he said is true.

[dantheman4248]

Stevens definitely has a bum shoulder. Probably something that needs rest to heal up but doesn't require season ending surgery (shoulder impingement? Sprain?) so it comes down to how well he can throw through it, and he missed some wide open guys Saturday that he would not have missed prior to the injury. It wasn't that he couldn't find the open guys or got it into a small opening, he was throwing to guys with plenty of space, just off target. Right before his pick I texted a couple friends and said his shoulder is not healthy cause he'd be hitting those throws if it was. Next play he throws a pick (that K-state fumbled back) and doesn't play another down all game.

You’re preaching to the choir if that comment is directed to me. Hopefully others take heed.

[PMDawg]

Can any of you identify a team that has beaten a top 25 team despite not having its qb, 6 starters (not including Gibson), and playing a true freshman qb? I cannot think of one.

Truth is, Kan St is better than we thought and we should have played autry and gay, especially knowing TS was not healthy

Aren't we paying someone millions of dollars to know these things and make the right decisions based on that knowledge?

[RezDog7]

Joe has a chance to correct this disturbing trend this week. I can't state how big this game is for joe.

Will you be firing him if he loses?

[RezDog7]

There just seems to be weeks where this coaching staff doesn't prepare. Like at all.

There is absolutely no consistency

Maybe JoMo is interviewing for jobs on those weeks

[confucius say]

Aren't we paying someone millions of dollars to know these things and make the right decisions based on that knowledge?

That was my biggest issue with Saturday looking back. Gay and autry should have played

[Maroonthirteen]

I don’t care what the line was..... Kentucky 2018 was a damn good football team. We caught them when they were peaking too.

Last years Florida game.... the offense was putrid. That’s on JoMo. But Grantham was familiar with our players. However Gay dropped a potential pick 6 and we dropped the long potential TD pass. Two huge plays that the player just didn’t execute.

Iowa game.... Abrams blows a coverage and gifts them a TD. Butter fingers drops a TD.

Kansas St has a senior Oline and damn good coach. We were missing many many players.

[Coach007]

That was my biggest issue with Saturday looking back. Gay and autry should have played

Based on what??? The fact that we only allowed 246 yard and mainly played a ton of young guys??

[Gutter Cobreh]

Why? What he said is true.

I'm not suggesting what he said isn't true. He posted the exact same message in another thread, but I guess it was of such importance that it needed its on thread.

[MedDawg]

Every team Moorhead has lost to was/is ranked.

[dantheman4248]

Every team Moorhead has lost to was/is ranked.

It's Dan Mullen vs. ranked teams all over again. (Fun fact 2014 Dan Mullen was 1-3 against teams that ended the year ranked in the AP poll and the win was the only 5 loss team ranked in the poll #22 Auburn)

[Austindawg]

Am I right that Mullen had 3 such losses in 9 years?

No, that?s not right, it?s just what Brian Hadad and Joel coleman said l, but they were wrong.

[dantheman4248]

It's Dan Mullen vs. ranked teams all over again. (Fun fact 2014 Dan Mullen was 1-3 against teams that ended the year ranked in the AP poll and the win was the only 5 loss team ranked in the poll #22 Auburn)


Versus end of year ranked schools and who we beat, their rank, their record by year. Puts Dan Mullen and his "excellence" into perspective for you.
2009: 1-3, #20 Ole Miss (9-4)
2010: 0-4
2011: 0-5
2012: 0-4
2013: 0-6
2014: 1-3, #22 Auburn (8-5)
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-3
2017: 1-3, #18 LSU (9-4)
2018: 1-5, #16 Texas A&M (9-4)

[MedDawg]

Versus end of year ranked schools and who we beat, their rank, their record by year. Puts Dan Mullen and his "excellence" into perspective for you.
2009: 1-3, #20 Ole Miss (9-4)
2010: 0-4
2011: 0-5
2012: 0-4
2013: 0-6
2014: 1-3, #22 Auburn (8-5)
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-3
2017: 1-3, #18 LSU (9-4)
2018: 1-5, #16 Texas A&M (9-4)

So Moorhead has MSU?s best win in 10 years.

[msstate7]

So Moorhead has MSU?s best win in 10 years.

Yes, beating auburn and LSU in 2014 doesn't even come close to that auburn win last year. Still can't believe gameday passed on that heavy weight matchup

[dantheman4248]

Yes, beating auburn and LSU in 2014 doesn't even come close to that auburn win last year. Still can't believe gameday passed on that heavy weight matchup

Don’t tell me you’re gonna come in here and argue against a fact.


Whew boy. Is this how you feel when you post numbers to bait people? I get it. Nick beat 2 end of season ranked opponents and Dak only beat 1. Isn’t the ranking at the end the A. only one that matters and B. a better ranking as we now a full body of work and more data on teams.

[dantheman4248]

So Moorhead has MSU?s best win in 10 years.

Best according to the AP. It is interesting, isn’t it?

[msstate7]

Don?t tell me you?re gonna come in here and argue against a fact.


Whew boy. Is this how you feel when you post numbers to bait people? I get it. Nick beat 2 end of season ranked opponents and Dak only beat 1. Isn?t the ranking at the end the A. only one that matters and B. a better ranking as we now a full body of work and more data on teams.

I'm not arguing... hell, I was just looking at that SI cover on my wall this morning thinking about how great that win was. Man, catapulted us into the top 25, I believe. Mullen never had a win that was so big for this school. I'll be telling my grandkids some day about that auburn win of 2018... man, we were on top of the world

[dantheman4248]

I'm not arguing... hell, I was just looking at that SI cover on my wall this morning thinking about how great that win was. Man, catapulted us into the top 25, I believe. Mullen never had a win that was so big for this school. I'll be telling my grandkids some day about that auburn win of 2018... man, we were on top of the world

Don?t be sarcastic to me. Be sarcastic to overinflated preseason rankings. Seems they overinflated the worth of our 3 top-10 opponent win streak.

[msstate7]

Don?t be sarcastic to me. Be sarcastic to overinflated preseason rankings. Seems they overinflated the worth of our 3 top-10 opponent win streak.

What's the problem? Any state fan alive will tell you auburn 2018 win is the greatest. I mean finally getting over the hump at tiger stadium in 2014 was ok, but let's get real... auburn last year was a monster. Still can't believe they lost at home to Jeremy Pruitt

[dantheman4248]

What's the problem? Any state fan alive will tell you auburn 2018 win is the greatest. I mean finally getting over the hump at tiger stadium in 2014 was ok, but let's get real... auburn last year was a monster. Still can't believe they lost at home to Jeremy Pruitt

Yea I know so glad the AP knows that numbers tell the full story and are the end all be all.

[msstate7]

Just so you know, I was pumped about beating auburn last year. I came on here and gave joe major props. With that said, any of that 3-game run in 2014 was so much bigger than last season. We don't control what teams do after they play us. If you rate auburn 2018 over LSU, aTm, or auburn of 2014, you have the agenda, sir. Those wins put us #1 in the very first college playoff poll ever! 2 SI covers

[dantheman4248]

Just so you know, I was pumped about beating auburn last year. I came on here and gave joe major props. With that said, any of that 3-game run in 2014 was so much bigger than last season. We don't control what teams do after they play us. If you rate auburn 2018 over LSU, aTm, or auburn of 2014, you have the agenda, sir. Those wins put us #1 in the very first college playoff poll ever!

I don’t. The AP does. Their opinion matters more than me. I am not and have never been a recognized National Champion decider. Neither are you. “Don’t h8 jus fax sry”

[msstate7]

I don’t. The AP does. Their opinion matters more than me. I am not and have never been a recognized National Champion decider. Neither are you. “Don’t h8 jus fax sry”

Wrong, ap said all 3 were top 10 when we beat em.

[dantheman4248]

Wrong, ap said all 3 were top 10 when we beat em.

And when they had more data to give their final ranking they didn’t say any were.

[msstate7]

And when they had more data to give their final ranking they didn’t say any were.

Guess that's the danger in not having enough data... like saying a transfer QB is more accurate than our best ever. You just have too much recency bias

[dantheman4248]

Guess that's the danger in not having enough data... like saying a transfer QB is more accurate than our best ever. You just have too much recency bias

Nice try but it ain’t recency bias. You were looking for “too small sample size”. Oh well, try next time on who wants to be a lawyer.

[msstate7]

https://i.postimg.cc/FR6t138R/0389-EB00-6-AAC-4-FE8-92-FD-5-DC604894-FB0.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/05J5Dyf3/89-ADCC58-6211-4592-9-A8-A-BE3-AFF99-EC21.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Who wouldn't trade this for that massive auburn win last year?

[sandwolf]

Am I right that Mullen had 3 such losses in 9 years?

Deleted in favor of Pipedream's research earlier in the thread.

[sandwolf]

2016- USA/BYU/UK


From what I have found, we were a 7 point underdog at BYU in 2016.

[BuckyIsAB****]

K-State called timeout on offense the other day & we sent 13 players back on the field, after a timeout, on defense. Unreal how unorganized we are. That has nothing to do with suspensions

That has a shit ton to do with suspensions. You are dealing with kids who would otherwise never be in this situation and they arent ready. Sure some of that is on the coaches but if we have all our Dawgs we A. Arent struggling to line up B. Know who you want in the game therefore it takes all the thinking out of it. We were trying to go to our goaline D im sure and we screwed it up

[BhamDawg205]

I ****ing hate when a response to fair criticism is "you'd rather lose and be right than win", which is a totally illogical leap to make imo.

Thank you... Seems to be the "Go to" around here. No one wants MSU to fail

[Todd4State]

Yes, beating auburn and LSU in 2014 doesn't even come close to that auburn win last year. Still can't believe gameday passed on that heavy weight matchup

There's a difference between memorable and best per ranking.

And before you try to get into some long drawn out argument- understand that neither are bad. Memorable is very subjective to the moment.

Jackie had more than Dan did in both categories. And had more than any MSU coach in recent history.

Neither memorable nor ranked wins are reasons to slam a coach.

[Pipedream]

There's a difference between memorable and best per ranking.

And before you try to get into some long drawn out argument- understand that neither are bad. Memorable is very subjective to the moment.

Jackie had more than Dan did in both categories. And had more than any MSU coach in recent history.

Neither memorable nor ranked wins are reasons to slam a coach.

Don't trust the AP-they're good at serving their purpose (generating interest in the sport), but as far as accurately determining one teams strength over another, they're incredibly flawed. Here's what SP+ says about our 5 best wins of the last 5 seasons:
1. 2014 Auburn (finished season ranked 6th)
2. 2018 Auburn (7th)
3. 2017 LSU (11th)
2014 LSU (11th)
5. 2014 A&M (15th)

[Lord McBuckethead]

We can make all the excuses in the world & some are valid, but JoMo is 10-6 at MSU with 4 of those 6 losses coming in games in which he was a 6.5 point favorite or better.

Folks, that is bad. There is no other way to frame it.

You can't sit here & say Vegas is awesome & then find every excuse in the book as to why MSU is consistently worse under Moorhead than Vegas thinks we should be.

You can't have it both ways

Yeah, so you are saying there has only been two games that we lost that Vegas said we should have lost?
Putting it that way, it sounds pretty good with room to grow.

[Homedawg]

Yeah, so you are saying there has only been two games that we lost that Vegas said we should have lost?
Putting it that way, it sounds pretty good with room to grow.

We've only been an underdog 3 times in his tenure and one of those was by a point.....

[msstate7]

We've only been an underdog 3 times in his tenure and one of those was by a point.....

He was 1-2 ATS in those games. He did win the one close one outright

[ShotgunDawg]

Whelp, We're a 6.5 point favorite at Tennessee.

As evidenced by this thread, it means nothing.

[MedDawg]

Don't trust the AP-they're good at serving their purpose (generating interest in the sport), but as far as accurately determining one teams strength over another, they're incredibly flawed. Here's what SP+ says about our 5 best wins of the last 5 seasons:
1. 2014 Auburn (finished season ranked 6th)
2. 2018 Auburn (7th)
3. 2017 LSU (11th)
2014 LSU (11th)
5. 2014 A&M (15th)

3. 2018 A&M (11th)

[Dawgology]

https://i.postimg.cc/FR6t138R/0389-EB00-6-AAC-4-FE8-92-FD-5-DC604894-FB0.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/05J5Dyf3/89-ADCC58-6211-4592-9-A8-A-BE3-AFF99-EC21.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Who wouldn't trade this for that massive auburn win last year?

I have that bottom and I wish like hell I had that top one

[msstate7]

I have that bottom and I wish like hell I had that top one

I bought the oversized cover only from SI website. You should check it out

[Mobile Bay]

Alright folks remember this. The line is not there to predict the outcome of the game. Vegas doesn't give a damn about that. The sole purpose of the line is to balance the books. What Vegas wants is for every game to have an even amount of money placed on both teams. That way at kickoff they can't lose either way.

The individual sportsbooks don't even set the opening line by themselves. There are one or two sports analyses firms in Vegas that do the number crunching and give the books what they think the line should be. That number also takes into account betting trends and patterns over the last several years. One of those factors is that sorts betting is now legal in Mississippi which may skew the line somewhat because it's easier for our homers to put down cash than those in other states.

[Dawgology]

I bought the oversized cover only from SI website. You should check it out

You can order them still?

[msstate7]

You can order them still?

https://sicovers.com/1-mississippi-2-mississippi-2014-october-20

[I seen it dawg]

You have to be getting paid to create content for this board, otherwise I'm at a loss...

Lol I'd love to say we were that smart. But we aren't. I just am still in awe of how many different ways he can start the same i hate joe threads and wish he weren't our coach. It never ceases to amaze me.

[I seen it dawg]

When you don't like the subject, you never try to argue it... just straight to attacking the poster. You, turfdawg, and Rez are the unquestioned leaders in this tactic

It's the same subject, the same thread, all day, every day, irregardless of anything else. I'm shocked at how many different threads are started doing and saying the same thing. Thanks for the business i guess.