What is the Athletic Department Going to Do To Get this Program Back on Track?

[ShotgunDawg]

It's easy to praise leadership when everything is going well. It's easy to ride the wave of prosperity & soak in the applause, but that's not leadership. Leadership is what you do to rally the troops when things aren't going well.

We went 4-5 years under Mullen by selling out every game. The fan base was hopeful that we were building something special & rising to a sustainable level of success & competing for championships in a way that the program had never seen.

Now what? What do you do now that everyone with a brain realizes that no matter what we do or how successful we are, there is a glass ceiling to our success? Due to state population, Mississippi kids desiring to go out of state, & in state recruits being bought by Auburn & other schools right out from under us with no consequences, that this program simply doesn't have the "juice" to become any better than what we saw under Mullen.

What do you do?

Two things sell tickets: winning & hope.....

You know what doesn't sell tickets? that the best you can hope for is a 100th straight trip to Gator Bowl. That doesn't galvanize a fan base or sell tickets.

So, that's why you see an empty stadium & that's why you see apathy.

What do you do? What will the leaders of Mississippi State University do to prevent the football program from falling into the pit that we saw in the Croom era?

What will they do to get butts in the seats next Saturday vs Kentucky when no one believes in the product or direction of the program?

Again, it's easy to lead from the front. But what about now?

My eyes are on this athletic department right now. This is where we find out what type of leadership we really have.

Does the MSU fan base have enough pride in this program & this state to stand the 17 up right & do everything we can or do we just accept our lot in life as a 2nd rate institution & program?

[Choctaw Dawg]

I honestly wish we had a coach or players that would shit talk, if you want to get a fanbase riled up you can start saying passive aggressive things about the other team like Kentucky did to us last year before they whipped us. Get your boys confident and maybe a little energy will go into the fanbase and get them hyped up for the coming football game(s)

This is a shorterm solution for a long term issue, but you got to start somewhere. Anything that will build just a little energy won't hurt.

[Quaoarsking]

Beat Kentucky next week. Beat Tennessee and Arkansas on the road. Be competitive with LSU and Auburn.

Also, only play night games in September. Yesterday would have been miserable when if we'd won handily.

[Coursesuper]

It's easy to praise leadership when everything is going well. It's easy to ride the wave of prosperity & soak in the applause, but that's not leadership. Leadership is what you do to rally the troops when things aren't going well.

We went 4-5 years under Mullen by selling out every game. The fan base was hopeful that we were building something special & rising to a sustainable level of success & competing for championships in a way that the program had never seen.

Now what? What do you do now that everyone with a brain realizes that no matter what we do or how successful we are, there is a glass ceiling to our success? Due to state population, Mississippi kids desiring to go out of state, & in state recruits being bought by Auburn & other schools right out from under us with no consequences, that this program simply doesn't have the "juice" to become any better than what we saw under Mullen.

What do you do?

Two things sell tickets: winning & hope.....

You know what doesn't sell tickets? that the best you can hope for is a 100th straight trip to Gator Bowl. That doesn't galvanize a fan base or sell tickets.

So, that's why you see an empty stadium & that's why you see apathy.

What do you do? What will the leaders of Mississippi State University do to prevent the football program from falling into the pit that we saw in the Croom era?

What will they do to get butts in the seats next Saturday vs Kentucky when no one believes in the product or direction of the program?

Again, it's easy to lead from the front. But what about now?

My eyes are on this athletic department right now. This is where we find out what type of leadership we really have.

Does the MSU fan base have enough pride in this program & this state to stand the 17 up right & do everything we can or do we just accept our lot in life as a 2nd rate institution & program?

I think you need to adjust your view of things. Ask yourself what are we really playing for in this era of college football? And you may be able to answer a lot of your own questions.

[WinningIsRelentless]

The biggest issue outside of just the overall state of college football that we can?t change is our fans don?t like the style of football we are trying to play offensively. JoMo is playing a style I would expect from Ole Miss not us. We have lost our mindset of instilling our physical will on you that brought us to number 1 ranking.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think you need to adjust your view of things. Ask yourself what are we really playing for in this era of college football? And you may be able to answer a lot of your own questions.

You may be correct & that's an answer that college football authorities will have to address over the coming years. The sport simply can't prosper under the current model. It will slowly fade to irrelevance.

[defiantdog]

Beat Kentucky next week. Beat Tennessee and Arkansas on the road. Be competitive with LSU and Auburn.

Also, only play night games in September. Yesterday would have been miserable when if we'd won handily.

We're a very soft team..... Kentucky is going to route us, but Tennessee and Arkansas will be competitive. We don't have man eaters on the DL, we don't have head hunters in the secondary, we have a starting QB that can't take a hit (but we have a future with the Shredder..... he's fearless) we don't have an OL pancaking anyone (last year, Jenkins imposed his will on everyone that lined up in front of him). It looks more like a ballerina act at times.

[Coursesuper]

You may be correct & that's an answer that college football authorities will have to address over the coming years. The sport simply can't prosper under the current model. It will slowly fade to irrelevance.

It's not going to fade it's going to split, and schools like ours are going to be on the short end of the stick. Playoff will expand to much money for it not too, but the pool playing to get in will shrink significantly.

[dantheman4248]

Win the next 3 games and LSU will be a madhouse. If Tommy is healthy Auburn is very winnable. If not, Joe better coach it like he did last year...

[WinningIsRelentless]

It's not going to fade it's going to split, and schools like ours are going to be on the short end of the stick. Playoff will expand to much money for it not too, but the pool playing to get in will shrink significantly.

Well the good need for us is we are one of 4 schools to be ranked no 1 since the playoff started!

[Todd4State]

The athletic department leadership needs to control what they do better.

1 The first game can't be the cluster that it is every year. They 50K people are going to show up and make the same mistakes every year and fix the same mistakes every year.

2 Market the team better. Especially with more video content. We are essentially only getting one highlight video a week and press conferences. Have a how like Ole Miss has with the Season. Stop making excuses as to why we can't or shouldn't. If it's a laziness issue light a fire under some asses. If it's money invest more money into it and staff it better.

3 Gear Davis Wade better for the heat.

4 Lower ticket prices.

[ShotgunDawg]

The biggest issue outside of just the overall state of college football that we can?t change is our fans don?t like the style of football we are trying to play offensively. JoMo is playing a style I would expect from Ole Miss not us. We have lost our mindset of instilling our physical will on you that brought us to number 1 ranking.

It's doesn't have to split though. They just have to adjust some recruiting rules & scholarship allotments. That fixes 60% of the issue

[ShotgunDawg]

The athletic department leadership needs to control what they do better.

1 The first game can't be the cluster that it is every year. They 50K people are going to show up and make the same mistakes every year and fix the same mistakes every year.

2 Market the team better. Especially with more video content. We are essentially only getting one highlight video a week and press conferences. Have a how like Ole Miss has with the Season. Stop making excuses as to why we can't or shouldn't. If it's a laziness issue light a fire under some asses. If it's money invest more money into it and staff it better.

3 Gear Davis Wade better for the heat.

4 Lower ticket prices.

Agree with all. They have to update DWS. It's just an inadequate facility for what they are asking of fans. If we're gonna do this 11:00 AM thing & 100 degree games, then you've got to invest money in creating a facility that can handle that

I'm sure they'll invest 20 mil in new indoor track soon though

[Coursesuper]

Well the good need for us is we are one of 4 schools to be ranked no 1 since the playoff started!

Hate to tell you but the only place that holds any relevance is with MState people, no one outside of the alumni and fan base cares about that. This will be about who sells advertising and turns on tv's. I hope that was tongue in cheek.

[dantheman4248]

Sidenote: I’m fearful College football could soon be going the way of Nascar in some places.

Building too large of stadia while price gouging out the casual fan (whether from ticket prices to making the whole trip entirely) and not having an experience that being home in ac watching on TV can beat. It’s a thought but there may not be 60K people in this country that can justify 7-8 trips to MSU for an experience that is comparably worse when the team is losing to the experience of sitting in cool a/c at home. Some people question whether taking a family of 4 and spending $150 on hotels, $150 on tickets, $25-50 on gas, $100 on food for a weekend is worth it to sit in the heat and watch your school play sub-optimally. Then turn around and do that 6 more times.

Most people would rather save their money for one or two trips that stick out as likely to be a fun time for the whole family than justify paying that money 7x a year to leave disappointed or worse, bored with the opponent we chose to play.

[Dawg2003]

You may be correct & that's an answer that college football authorities will have to address over the coming years. The sport simply can't prosper under the current model. It will slowly fade to irrelevance.

There are ways that college football can prosper. It's just that only certain schools can prosper.

[msstate7]

Sidenote: I’m fearful College football could soon be going the way of Nascar in some places.

Building too large of stadia while price gouging out the casual fan (whether from ticket prices to making the whole trip entirely) and not having an experience that being home in ac watching on TV can beat. It’s a thought but there may not be 60K people in this country that can justify 7-8 trips to MSU for an experience that is comparably worse when the team is losing to the experience of sitting in cool a/c at home. Some people question whether taking a family of 4 and spending $150 on hotels, $150 on tickets, $25-50 on gas, $100 on food for a weekend is worth it to sit in the heat and watch your school play sub-optimally. Then turn around and do that 6 more times.

Most people would rather save their money for one or two trips that stick out as likely to be a fun time for the whole family than justify paying that money 7x a year to leave disappointed or worse, bored with the opponent we chose to play.

Yep

[basedog]

You are basing things after a lost way too much Shotgun, things aren't as bad as you speak nor they as good as we might like. But oveall Msu is growing and getting better every year, it's not always about football, it's about our University. You are pretty much saying we need change starting the President, Athletic Director and Head Football Coach. And don't say you didn't, go read what you are posting. To think where Msu is today compared to 5 years ago, 10 years ago, how about 25 and 50 years ago, you need to show more support and get out of the "we aren't worthy" attitude.

To all the fans who show up to the games, I salute you and thank you for your support. For you folks who live to far away or simple can't afford to give or attend, I surely understand and wish you well and thanks for loving the University. For you "oh the sky is falling" and never attend nor give, shut up and quite bitching, folks like y'all make things worse for ones who truly love and give their support not just to our athletic programs but to our University, after all, This Is Our State!

We need fan support Saturday, hope DWS is loud and rocking as this will be the biggest game of this year so for.

[Coach007]

It's easy to praise leadership when everything is going well. It's easy to ride the wave of prosperity & soak in the applause, but that's not leadership. Leadership is what you do to rally the troops when things aren't going well.

We went 4-5 years under Mullen by selling out every game. The fan base was hopeful that we were building something special & rising to a sustainable level of success & competing for championships in a way that the program had never seen.

Now what? What do you do now that everyone with a brain realizes that no matter what we do or how successful we are, there is a glass ceiling to our success? Due to state population, Mississippi kids desiring to go out of state, & in state recruits being bought by Auburn & other schools right out from under us with no consequences, that this program simply doesn't have the "juice" to become any better than what we saw under Mullen.

What do you do?

Two things sell tickets: winning & hope.....

You know what doesn't sell tickets? that the best you can hope for is a 100th straight trip to Gator Bowl. That doesn't galvanize a fan base or sell tickets.

So, that's why you see an empty stadium & that's why you see apathy.

What do you do? What will the leaders of Mississippi State University do to prevent the football program from falling into the pit that we saw in the Croom era?

What will they do to get butts in the seats next Saturday vs Kentucky when no one believes in the product or direction of the program?

Again, it's easy to lead from the front. But what about now?

My eyes are on this athletic department right now. This is where we find out what type of leadership we really have.

Does the MSU fan base have enough pride in this program & this state to stand the 17 up right & do everything we can or do we just accept our lot in life as a 2nd rate institution & program?

The program isn't off track.

[Coach007]

You may be correct & that's an answer that college football authorities will have to address over the coming years. The sport simply can't prosper under the current model. It will slowly fade to irrelevance.

This I agree with. Until you make the sport more competitive and fair. For example, there is no reason we should have 85 players. Reduce them by 15. Change the caps on recruiting so teams can keep the 70.

Change the play offs. Because the competition will be better.

Reduce the games played to 2 OOC increase the playoffs to top 12.

Move the first games 3 weeks later than current start weekend.

[Coursesuper]

This I agree with. Until you make the sport more competitive and fair. For example, there is no reason we should have 85 players. Reduce them by 15. Change the caps on recruiting so teams can keep the 70.

Change the play offs. Because the competition will be better.

Reduce the games played to 2 OOC increase the playoffs to top 12.

Move the first games 3 weeks later than current start weekend.

Do you really believe that reducing the scholarship number would benefit MSU?

[Coach007]

Do you really believe that reducing the scholarship number would benefit MSU?

I'm thinking the sport in general. But yes.

[Coursesuper]

[QUOTE=Coach007;1149801]I'm thinking the sport in general. But yes.[/QUOTE

So you believe there is a level playing field for all, every school has the same exact advantages and disadvantages. And on that note I want to ask you a serious question. What is Mississippi State football actually playing for?

[ShotgunDawg]

Do you really believe that reducing the scholarship number would benefit MSU?

Absolutely, without a doubt it would help MSU

[ShotgunDawg]

[QUOTE=Coach007;1149801]I'm thinking the sport in general. But yes.[/QUOTE

So you believe there is a level playing field for all, every school has the same exact advantages and disadvantages. And on that note I want to ask you a serious question. What is Mississippi State football actually playing for?

Nobody said there should be a level playing field, but the margin for error has to grow smaller for the good of the game.

If run correctly, programs like MSU, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Ok State, etc should have the ability to compete for a national championship. That can be true while the blue bloods are still the best programs with the most talent. The gap has just gotten too large for anyone to be interested

college football needs a system that kind of works like MLB. In MLB, the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinal, Cubs, & Boston are usually the best teams but the sport also provides a path for the Kansas City Royals to win a World Series if built correctly. College football provides no such hope & it's a huge problem

[MaroonFlounder]

Absolutely, without a doubt it would help MSU

Yeah...reduce scholarships...and then have an injury-riddled season like we are experiencing now, and see how we end up, sacrificing an entire season, and having to endure a shitty season because we are playing walk-ons.

You either think too much, or not at all, there is no in-between with you.

[Coursesuper]

[QUOTE=Coursesuper;1149806]

Nobody said there should be a level playing field, but the margin for error has to grow smaller for the good of the game.

If run correctly, programs like MSU, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Ok State, etc should have the ability to compete for a national championship. That can be true while the blue bloods are still the best programs with the most talent. The gap has just gotten too large for anyone to be interested

college football needs a system that kind of works like MLB. In MLB, the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinal, Cubs, & Boston are usually the best teams but the sport also provides a path for the Kansas City Royals to win a World Series if built correctly. College football provides no such hope & it's a huge problem

Your one task there but I don't think scholarship reductions with have the affect many then they will.

Reducing the scholarship number doesn't benefit MSU or any other program trying to compete with the top of the heap. The kids that want to go to Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and so forth are still going to go there, the scholarship limit isn't going to more equality distribute talent. It's will only make schools like MSU less deep because we won't be able take any chances on a marginal recruit on our board because there will be no spot for that kid.

It will benefit the MAC, Sun Belt, AAC, CUSA and the FCS division.

[ShotgunDawg]

Yeah...reduce scholarships...and then have an injury-riddled season like we are experiencing now, and see how we end up, sacrificing an entire season, and having to endure a shitty season because we are playing walk-ons.

You either think too much, or not at all, there is no in-between with you.

Maybe, but Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Ohio State, etc would be susceptible to the same thing. You aren't thinking here.

[ShotgunDawg]

[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;1149810]
the scholarship limit isn't going to more equality distribute talent.

This is a completely illogical statement

The cascading effect of limited scholarship would ABSOLUTELY distribute talent

[Coursesuper]

Maybe, but Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Ohio State, etc would be susceptible to the same thing. You aren't thinking here.

Disagree wholeheartedly, they will be able to withstand this much more than others, kids trying to get to the league are still going to those schools their depth won't be as effected nearly as much.

[MaroonFlounder]

O
[QUOTE=Coursesuper;1149863]

This is a completely illogical statement

The cascading effect of limited scholarship would ABSOLUTELY distribute talent

No, it would mean Bama becomes an even bigger monopoly in the SEC.

[ShotgunDawg]

Disagree wholeheartedly, they will be able to withstand this much more than others, kids trying to get to the league are still going to those schools their depth won't be as effected nearly as much.

Again, you aren't thinking here. Your position is illogical

[ShotgunDawg]

O[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;1149866]

No, it would mean Bama becomes an even bigger monopoly in the SEC.

No chance unless you believe that the last 20 players on MSU's roster gets MSU closer to beating Bama than the MSU having the last 20 players on Bama's roster on theirs

[Coursesuper]

[QUOTE=Coursesuper;1149863]

This is a completely illogical statement

The cascading effect of limited scholarship would ABSOLUTELY distribute talent

Those schools aren't going to sign less 4 or 5 stars.

[TUSK]

Disagree wholeheartedly, they will be able to withstand this much more than others, kids trying to get to the league are still going to those schools their depth won't be as effected nearly as much.

I think what a scholarship reduction would do is reallocate a lot of the 3 star type players that sign on with the top ~5-10 teams to the other ~120 teams...

So, let's say skollies are reduced to 75... that's ~50-100 3 star guys spread across the rest of the field... While all schools would see an increase in overall talent, "Average per recruit" ranking would increase more for those upper echelon programs than it would for everyone else.

JMO

[ShotgunDawg]

[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;1149866]

Those schools aren't going to sign less 4 or 5 stars.

Uhhhh, yes they would because they wouldn't have room.

[Coursesuper]

[QUOTE=MaroonFlounder;1149873]O

No chance unless you believe that the last 20 players on MSU's roster gets MSU closer to beating Bama than the MSU having the last 20 players on Bama's roster on theirs

That only works in a perfect world.

[Coursesuper]

I think what a scholarship reduction would do is reallocate a lot of the 3 star type players that sign on with the top ~5-10 teams to the other ~120 teams...

So, let's say skollies are reduced to 75... that's ~50-100 3 star guys spread across the rest of the field... While all schools would see an increase in overall talent, "Average per recruit" ranking would increase more for those upper echelon programs than it would for everyone else.

JMO

Exactly.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think what a scholarship reduction would do is reallocate a lot of the 3 star type players that sign on with the top ~5-10 teams to the other ~120 teams...

So, let's say skollies are reduced to 75... that's ~50-100 3 star guys spread across the rest of the field... While all schools would see an increase in overall talent, "Average per recruit" ranking would increase more for those upper echelon programs than it would for everyone else.

JMO

But that would still close the gap.

- Average recruit ranking is meaningless if the average is just increased due to a lowering of numbers. Bama would have no more talent than they do now

- Even if most of the re-allocation is 3 stars, the 3 stars that Bama, for example signs, are still better 3 stars than what everyone else is signing.

There is absolutely no argument that lowering scholarships wouldn't create a better product in college football

[TUSK]

But that would still close the gap.

- Average recruit ranking is meaningless if the average is just increased due to a lowering of numbers. Bama has no more talent than they do now

- Even if most of the re-allocation is 3 stars, the 3 stars that Bama, for example signs, are still better 3 stars than what everyone else is signing.

There is absolutely no argument that lowering scholarships wouldn't create a better product in college football

I don't disagree with any of that... It would just be a really negligible difference, IMO... I do think it'd create a bigger gap between mid-tier programs that would scoop up most of the "good" 3 stars vs lower tier programs...

But, that would be unfair...*

[Coursesuper]

But that would still close the gap.

- Average recruit ranking is meaningless if the average is just increased due to a lowering of numbers. Bama has no more talent than they do now

- Even if most of the re-allocation is 3 stars, the 3 stars that Bama, for example signs, are still better 3 stars than what everyone else is signing.

There is absolutely no argument that lowering scholarships wouldn't create a better product in college football

Why is a Bammer 3 star different than any other? Because he signed with Bammer?

[Lord McBuckethead]

This I agree with. Until you make the sport more competitive and fair. For example, there is no reason we should have 85 players. Reduce them by 15. Change the caps on recruiting so teams can keep the 70.

Change the play offs. Because the competition will be better.

Reduce the games played to 2 OOC increase the playoffs to top 12.

Move the first games 3 weeks later than current start weekend.

Agreed. I would rather the first weeks game start the 1st weekend of October. I would love to have some december games. Just compress the bowl season. We really do not need 3 solid weeks of bowl games. Double them up during the week.

[ShotgunDawg]

Why is a Bammer 3 star different than any other? Because he signed with Bammer?

Because Bammer offered him & felt he was worthy of a scholarship over pretty much any other play in the country

[ShotgunDawg]

Agreed. I would rather the first weeks game start the 1st weekend of October. I would love to have some december games. Just compress the bowl season. We really do not need 3 solid weeks of bowl games. Double them up during the week.

Agree. Problem is no one in college athletics appears to have the balls to stand up & change things

[Coach007]

Yeah...reduce scholarships...and then have an injury-riddled season like we are experiencing now, and see how we end up, sacrificing an entire season, and having to endure a shitty season because we are playing walk-ons.

You either think too much, or not at all, there is no in-between with you.

Yet we still fielded a competitive team. Now imagine if 6 of those guys were ready talent rather than simply raw.

[Coursesuper]

Agree. Problem is no one in college athletics appears to have the balls to stand up & change things

It's hard to stand up to TV money. They are running the show, I you don't believe it just look at next weeks SEC tv schedule. UK at MSU is a 3:00 PM start and non conference San Jose State at Ark is the prime time game on the "SEC" network. Protect the possible TV audience for CBS prime time game ND@UGA at all cost.

[Coach007]

I think what a scholarship reduction would do is reallocate a lot of the 3 star type players that sign on with the top ~5-10 teams to the other ~120 teams...

So, let's say skollies are reduced to 75... that's ~50-100 3 star guys spread across the rest of the field... While all schools would see an increase in overall talent, "Average per recruit" ranking would increase more for those upper echelon programs than it would for everyone else.

JMO

It would need to be around 70. You would have to reduce the amount per year. In 2017 bama signed 6 5 stars, and 18 4 stars.

You would not have been able to do that. You would have had to turn away 8ish of those.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's hard to stand up to TV money. They are running the show, I you don't believe it just look at next weeks SEC tv schedule. UK at MSU is a 3:00 PM start and non conference San Jose State at Ark is the prime time game on the "SEC" network. Protect the possible TV audience for CBS prime time game ND@UGA at all cost.

I agree. Since we're making all that money, let's have a stadium that is equipped to handle those games.

[munk_munk92]

In order to get butts in seats is you have to have a winning program and one that people are excited about. To have any of those you need a competent coach and staff and you have to recruit with the big boys. In order to attract these recruits you have to have all the amenities that other big programs have. I say we start there. Start attracting the recruits.

[ShotgunDawg]

In order to get butts in seats is you have to have a winning program and one that people are excited about. To have any of those you need a competent coach and staff and you have to recruit with the big boys. In order to attract these recruits you have to have all the amenities that other big programs have. I say we start there. Start attracting the recruits.

I think the history of college football has made it clear that it's delusional to think you can accomplish this.

We haven't had a first time national champion in 26 years.

Since 1977, only 6 teams have won the SEC title.

Yes, Oregon (Nike) & Clemson (incredible staff continuity & transcendent head coach) have been able to compete nationally although not blue bloods, but that is it.

It's simply not realistic to believe we have any chance of accomplishing this, which means the system is horribly flawed.

Other sports have a draft to bring about parity but you can't do that when educations are at stake. Kids must be able to choose their school. Thus the only answer is to limit scholarships OR allow players that willingly enter a draft to be paid.

[trojandawg]

Not promote a baseball coach will little real athletics administration experience. Bring back Scott Wetherbee.

[Coursesuper]

Not promote a baseball coach will little real athletics administration experience. Bring back Scott Wetherbee.


Yep

[Todd4State]

In order to get butts in seats is you have to have a winning program and one that people are excited about. To have any of those you need a competent coach and staff and you have to recruit with the big boys. In order to attract these recruits you have to have all the amenities that other big programs have. I say we start there. Start attracting the recruits.

When was our last losing non-bowl season again? Ten years ago?

Even Alabama is having trouble keeping fans at the games.

It's not just about winning. College football is having to compete with comfort from home and the cost of going to games. I probably spend anywhere between 600-800 dollars a weekend all told going to Starkville. Sometimes have to re-arrange my schedule at work. Sometimes sacrifice some of my personal time. All to wake up at 5 AM to go to an 11 AM game that has a 115 degree heat index at a place with traffic headaches, is a four hour drive round trip, metal detectors that don't work, and have concessions that may or may not have people at them plus very few if any healthy concession options.

Or I could save hundreds of dollars watching the game on TV at my own convenience.

[Todd4State]

Not promote a baseball coach will little real athletics administration experience. Bring back Scott Wetherbee.

We probably need to go outside of the MSU family in all honesty. Which is what Keenum really wanted to do. But some influential MSU people disagreed and sabotaged it.

At this point I just hope that Cohen ups his game in the marketing, promotion, and gameday function arena. Which we all knew was going to be his weakness going in.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think the history of college football has made it clear that it's delusional to think you can accomplish this.

We haven't had a first time national champion in 26 years.

Since 1977, only 6 teams have won the SEC title.

Yes, Oregon (Nike) & Clemson (incredible staff continuity & transcendent head coach) have been able to compete nationally although not blue bloods, but that is it.

It's simply not realistic to believe we have any chance of accomplishing this, which means the system is horribly flawed.

Other sports have a draft to bring about parity but you can't do that when educations are at stake. Kids must be able to choose their school. Thus the only answer is to limit scholarships OR allow players that willingly enter a draft to be paid.

The number of teams that can compete is actually shrinking also. Look at national title winners since the 1980s and 1990s that have fallen in the last 10 years to where they are not competing for national titles for long stretches - Nebraska, Miami, FSU, USC, Texas,Tennessee, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Penn State, Pitt, BYU. Many of those teams have gotten flat out bad, while others are still Top 25 but don't come close to competing with the Bama/Ohio State/Clemson level teams. There are some pretender teams too - like Notre Dame whoever the favorite PAC12 team of the year is (Washington??), who live off their schedules and fold against elite teams in the post season. Its killing the game.

[ShotgunDawg]

The number of teams that can compete is actually shrinking also. Look at national title winners since the 1980s and 1990s that have fallen in the last 10 years to where they are not competing for national titles for long stretches - Nebraska, Miami, FSU, USC, Texas,Tennessee, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Penn State, Pitt, BYU. Many of those teams have gotten flat out bad, while others are still Top 25 but don't come close to competing with the Bama/Ohio State/Clemson level teams. There are some pretender teams too - like Notre Dame whoever the favorite PAC12 team of the year is (Washington??), who live off their schedules and fold against elite teams in the post season. Its killing the game.

Agree.

I think there are few reasons for this:

1. TV. Some of those teams used to be good because they were on TV & other school were not. That is no longer the case & thus it's hard to recruit outside your footprint

2. Recruiting rankings & recruiting/scouting combines have allowed the best players to get to know who their peers are, &, just like we've seen in the NBA, it produces a "super team" desire in those players. They are more & more attending the same schools together because they are friends. It used to not be that way.

It's a real issue that has to be addressed if the power that be want this sport to thrive.

How many years in a row will Bama & Clemson have to play in the national title game for things to change?

[Jack Lambert]

We're a very soft team..... Kentucky is going to route us, but Tennessee and Arkansas will be competitive. We don't have man eaters on the DL, we don't have head hunters in the secondary, we have a starting QB that can't take a hit (but we have a future with the Shredder..... he's fearless) we don't have an OL pancaking anyone (last year, Jenkins imposed his will on everyone that lined up in front of him). It looks more like a ballerina act at times.

They showed some on that 4th and short.

[yjnkdawg]

You are basing things after a lost way too much Shotgun, things aren't as bad as you speak nor they as good as we might like. But oveall Msu is growing and getting better every year, it's not always about football, it's about our University. You are pretty much saying we need change starting the President, Athletic Director and Head Football Coach. And don't say you didn't, go read what you are posting. To think where Msu is today compared to 5 years ago, 10 years ago, how about 25 and 50 years ago, you need to show more support and get out of the "we aren't worthy" attitude.

To all the fans who show up to the games, I salute you and thank you for your support. For you folks who live to far away or simple can't afford to give or attend, I surely understand and wish you well and thanks for loving the University. For you "oh the sky is falling" and never attend nor give, shut up and quite bitching, folks like y'all make things worse for ones who truly love and give their support not just to our athletic programs but to our University, after all, This Is Our State!

We need fan support Saturday, hope DWS is loud and rocking as this will be the biggest game of this year so for.




You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to basedog again.

[yjnkdawg]

Yeah...reduce scholarships...and then have an injury-riddled season like we are experiencing now, and see how we end up, sacrificing an entire season, and having to endure a shitty season because we are playing walk-ons.

You either think too much, or not at all, there is no in-between with you.


Give him credit though. He has a very vivid imagination. LOL

[TUSK]

Agree.

I think there are few reasons for this:

1. TV. Some of those teams used to be good because they were on TV & other school were not. That is no longer the case & thus it's hard to recruit outside your footprint

2. Recruiting rankings & recruiting/scouting combines have allowed the best players to get to know who their peers are, &, just like we've seen in the NBA, it produces a "super team" desire in those players. They are more & more attending the same schools together because they are friends. It used to not be that way.

It's a real issue that has to be addressed if the power that be want this sport to thrive.

How many years in a row will Bama & Clemson have to play in the national title game for things to change?

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

How many schools would there be in this "new class" and how would that help the current situation?

Also, remember that whatever "new class" you create effects ALL sports. Not just football.

Also, why would creating a new class be better than cutting scholarship, which would build in more parity?

[Coursesuper]

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

Why pay college players to play ball and get an education. The NFL can pick up the ticket for a minor league for football and kids that belong in college classrooms can play college football. That solves the different classification deal and paying players all in one move.

[Sparrows2]

I agree with most of what you think the problems are... I don't agree with most of your solutions...

I think we just need another class division of college football... and quit pretending they're "amateurs"...

(I'm not advocating for a "P4P" deal... just sayin' if it were segregated, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole...)

The truth is Alabama is historically good because they cheat. The Albert means saga proved that there are sidewalk fans willing to put massive money to make Alabama successful. Other schools outside of UCLA in the 60?s in basketball, Louisville and Kentucky in basketball and Oklahoma of the 70?s simply don?t have fans that dedicated and ruthless.
When a school does decide to cheat at that level like SMU in the 70?s the powers backdoor whisper to the NCAA
I am not advocating MSU cheat, to cheat at this level you need a law school and journalism school that pumps out legal fixers and appologists

It is what it is, but no need for a bama fan to try and tell everyone how to fix the system

[ShotgunDawg]

The truth is Alabama is historically good because they cheat. The Albert means saga proved that there are sidewalk fans willing to put massive money to make Alabama successful. Other schools outside of UCLA in the 60’s in basketball, Louisville and Kentucky in basketball and Oklahoma of the 70’s simply don’t have fans that dedicated and ruthless.
When a school does decide to cheat at that level like SMU in the 70’s the powers backdoor whisper to the NCAA

It is what it is, but no need for a bama fan to try and tell everyone how to fix the system

Of course they do, but I've kind of just accepted that this is what goes on at this point.

The question now is: how do we create a more parity & more interest within this system?

[Todd4State]

The truth is Alabama is historically good because they cheat. The Albert means saga proved that there are sidewalk fans willing to put massive money to make Alabama successful. Other schools outside of UCLA in the 60?s in basketball, Louisville and Kentucky in basketball and Oklahoma of the 70?s simply don?t have fans that dedicated and ruthless.
When a school does decide to cheat at that level like SMU in the 70?s the powers backdoor whisper to the NCAA
I am not advocating MSU cheat, to cheat at this level you need a law school and journalism school that pumps out legal fixers and appologists

It is what it is, but no need for a bama fan to try and tell everyone how to fix the system

Bob Tyler learned how to cheat from Bear Bryant and Johnny Vaught. Two of the biggest cheaters out there- and of course we were the ones that got burned.

[Todd4State]

Of course they do, but I've kind of just accepted that this is what goes on at this point.

The question now is: how do we create a more parity & more interest within this system?

Ethical officials would be a good start. A big part of the problem is it's very obvious that certain "haves" are protected.

I suspect they could expand the playoffs to 16 teams and have mixed officiating crews in the playoffs. That way there would be less incentive to "protect" an Alabama because they could still get into the playoffs with a loss or two- which would mean an upset loss to Mississippi State wouldn't necessarily kill their National Title hopes. Which would create more interest because more people in theory would "have a chance".

[TUSK]

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

[TUSK]

Bob Tyler learned how to cheat from Bear Bryant and Johnny Vaught. Two of the biggest cheaters out there- and of course we were the ones that got burned.

The Kang and Dye got a LOT of pointers from Tha Bahr, too... A bunch of other coaches, too...

They all cheat... Some are just better and/or more committed...

[Coursesuper]

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

That's exactly what's coming, in may take 15 years, that minus kicking the money down to help the lower classifications the NCAA will probably not be a part of this set up. 20 years or so ago there was almost a split but the big 10 wouldn't move, now they won't be able to stop it any team that will go will leave for the revenue windfall.

[ShotgunDawg]

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

I just can't see this happening because of how it would effect other sports.

It sounds great in football, but it would be a disaster for other sports.

I could see power 5 separating but that would still leave us in the same spot we currently are in terms of a lack of competitive balance.

I just can't see the point of separating only 25 schools when it's much easier for everyone to just lower the scholarships.

[ShotgunDawg]

That's exactly what's coming,

No it's not.

It's a pipedream that lacks an understanding of the unintended consequences.

[Dawg2003]

I just can't see this happening because of how it would effect other sports.

It sounds great in football, but it would be a disaster for other sports.

I could see power 5 separating but that would still leave us in the same spot we currently are in terms of a lack of competitive balance.

I just can't see the point of separating only 25 schools when it's much easier for everyone to just lower the scholarships.

Football would be in a separate "conference." Something similar happens on a smaller level with non-revenue sports. Florida's women's lacrosse team is in the AAC in that sport only. They were previously in the Big East. Notre Dame football is independent, but the rest of their sports are in the ACC. So similar stuff happens.

If a break happens in football, all Power 5 teams won't go. Probably 25 like Tusk said. The ones with the most potential revenue and name brand. I don't think that would be us. I just don't think our fans care quite that much about football. We are fair weather football fans but have always wanted to be a baseball school.

[Coursesuper]

No it's not.

It's a pipedream that lacks an understanding of the unintended consequences.

You have no idea how close it was to happening before, the CFA thing almost happened it was very very close. Now that the networks are so much more in control of things its a real possibility, the possible revenue is astronomical compared to the monies that are being thrown around today.

[ShotgunDawg]

Football would be in a separate "conference." Something similar happens on a smaller level with non-revenue sports. Florida's women's lacrosse team is in the AAC in that sport only. They were previously in the Big East. Notre Dame football is independent, but the rest of their sports are in the ACC. So similar stuff happens.

If a break happens in football, all Power 5 teams won't go. Probably 25 like Tusk said. The ones with the most potential revenue and name brand. I don't think that would be us. I just don't think our fans care quite that much about football. We are fair weather football fans but have always wanted to be a baseball school.

But that's not going to happen. The power 5 schools left out of that football conference would never agree to that.

[ShotgunDawg]

You have no idea how close it was to happening before, the CFA thing almost happened it was very very close. Now that the networks are so much more in control of things its a real possibility, the possible revenue is astronomical compared to the monies that are being thrown around today.

I don't think it's ever been close to happening

[Coursesuper]

I don't think it's ever been close to happening

It happened.

[ShotgunDawg]

It happened.

Please explain

[Dawg2003]

But that's not going to happen. The power 5 schools left out of that football conference would never agree to that.

Why would the schools that are left have to agree to the other schools leaving?

[dawgs]

The biggest issue outside of just the overall state of college football that we can?t change is our fans don?t like the style of football we are trying to play offensively. JoMo is playing a style I would expect from Ole Miss not us. We have lost our mindset of instilling our physical will on you that brought us to number 1 ranking.

Disagree with this point entirely. I wanted to claw my eyes out every time it was 3rd and 3 and Mullen called for a QB power again thatvworks against usm but gets stuffed by bama every time.

[dawgs]

[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;1149810]

Your one task there but I don't think scholarship reductions with have the affect many then they will.

Reducing the scholarship number doesn't benefit MSU or any other program trying to compete with the top of the heap. The kids that want to go to Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and so forth are still going to go there, the scholarship limit isn't going to more equality distribute talent. It's will only make schools like MSU less deep because we won't be able take any chances on a marginal recruit on our board because there will be no spot for that kid.

It will benefit the MAC, Sun Belt, AAC, CUSA and the FCS division.

We'd get some guys that'd normally find a place at bama or Clemson or uga or LSU, and G5 guys would get some guys that normally would find a place at MSU or OM or Arkansas or Kentucky, FCS would get some guys that'd normally end up at usm or Memphis or Troy st.

[Coursesuper]

Please explain

When the conference consolidation began there was a big push to leave the NCAA from schools that were a part of the College Football Association, the CFA was put together by the larger schools I believe there were 63 or 64 teams involved. This group was put together to negotiate TV contracts. There was a big push to leave the NCAA due to the the belief among this group at the time the DII and DII teams were holding the bigger schools back and the bigger schools couldn't maximize revenue. The idea of using the CFA as the governing body and setting up their own association with its own rules and revenue sharing was proposed. ND and the Big ten schools balked in order to explore setting up their own TV deals and the CFA fell apart in 1997.

[Coach007]

Why pay college players to play ball and get an education. The NFL can pick up the ticket for a minor league for football and kids that belong in college classrooms can play college football. That solves the different classification deal and paying players all in one move.

Oh we are headed that way. It's why we need to change the system now. Ca, Co, Wa, Md and more have either passed or moved to pass laws that allow college players to hire agents and profit off of their likeness.

That means the University either breaks the law and suffers from that or get slapped by the NCAA. RIght now, we have until 2023 to solve all the issues.

If we DON'T changed it, it will mean MORE of the top talent will go where they can actually market themselves. We would not have gotten Chris Jones, Simmons.... etc. Those few 3 stars that bama gets.... they will turn into 4 stars because of market value.

WHICH is another reason to cap the Roster at about 65-70.

[Coach007]

All of the above posts are accurate, for the most part... We just cull out the "haves"... Say the top 25 teams based on value, success, attendance, etc...

The remaining programs could set up their own network, officiating system, scholarship limitations, etc...

The new (25 team) league could take a percentage of their increase in revenue and kick it down to help subsidize the other programs.

You can't unless the Gov changes Title iX

[CovertDawg]

Simply, our fans have to want it more than other schools if MSU ever wants to sniff Atlanta. We are operating at a disadvantage from a population standpoint and sharing the state with another SEC school. We were 2-0 going into a game against a Power 5 opponent and we already had fans complaining about style points and heat. I agree that Mullen was good at telling people big wins don't happen before fans fill the stadium. Well we probably need to amend the message that big wins don't keep occurring without fans filling the stadium for every game. If fans are going to make excuses for not showing up then we have already lost any chance at elevating the program.

[dawgs]

Why pay college players to play ball and get an education. The NFL can pick up the ticket for a minor league for football and kids that belong in college classrooms can play college football. That solves the different classification deal and paying players all in one move.

Speaking of killing off college football, this'll do it of insurance and lawsuits don't get to it first.

[dawgs]

No it's not.

It's a pipedream that lacks an understanding of the unintended consequences.

Yeah, tbh the ~25 programs that'd split off from the rest of P5 would be cutting their nose off to spite their face imo. If MSU gets left behind, not a chance in hell I give a shit about watching bama and Clemson and LSU play random games on a Saturday in September or october anymore.

[dawgs]

When the conference consolidation began there was a big push to leave the NCAA from schools that were a part of the College Football Association, the CFA was put together by the larger schools I believe there were 63 or 64 teams involved. This group was put together to negotiate TV contracts. There was a big push to leave the NCAA due to the the belief among this group at the time the DII and DII teams were holding the bigger schools back and the bigger schools couldn't maximize revenue. The idea of using the CFA as the governing body and setting up their own association with its own rules and revenue sharing was proposed. ND and the Big ten schools balked in order to explore setting up their own TV deals and the CFA fell apart in 1997.

There's a huge difference betwee ln all the P5 programs breaking off together and 20-30 programs self-selecting who breaks off from the rest of P5 (thru only the least shady means as programs jockey for those final slots I'm sure). All the P5 programs moving to their own division together works because rivalries are maintained, provides diversity of the fan base, conferences continuity, etc. moving to a 20-30 team conference of "elites" pretty much turns CFB into a niche regional sport that basically covers the southeast, southern plains states (Texas, Oklahoma), and the traditional big 10 country (not Maryland and New Jersey). That's leaving a lot of fans jaded and spurned all over the country that aren't gonna return to watch the "elite" programs 1000 miles away play.

[Coursesuper]

There's a huge difference betwee ln all the P5 programs breaking off together and 20-30 programs self-selecting who breaks off from the rest of P5 (thru only the least shady means as programs jockey for those final slots I'm sure). All the P5 programs moving to their own division together works because rivalries are maintained, provides diversity of the fan base, conferences continuity, etc. moving to a 20-30 team conference of "elites" pretty much turns CFB into a niche regional sport that basically covers the southeast, southern plains states (Texas, Oklahoma), and the traditional big 10 country (not Maryland and New Jersey). That's leaving a lot of fans jaded and spurned all over the country that aren't gonna return to watch the "elite" programs 1000 miles away play.

I understand what your saying and from a fans point of view that makes sense. But this move will be about eyeballs on TV period. MSU doesn't move the needle on TV nor do 75% of the rest to the casual fan. Think the folks who support LSU and Bammer and TX and OK, they have no allegiance to a school per say the just follow because they win. That's the audience. It may not be as small as 15 to 25 maybe as large as 45 or 50 and the fight for those final spots would be dramatic to say the least.

[Pollodawg]

It?s time to purge some of these troll accounts.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Why pay college players to play ball and get an education. The NFL can pick up the ticket for a minor league for football and kids that belong in college classrooms can play college football. That solves the different classification deal and paying players all in one move.

Agreed, college/university sports should model more like Division II and III and get away from the big money.