A Change in Our Culture

[Goldendawg]

My late Superdog Father took me to my first State games in 1963. I sat in my seat with my 18 year old son and one of my best friends at DWS at 10:30AM against KSU today and we sat there not really shocked for about 10 minutes after the game was over. Five of my famiy chose not to attend and I had trouble giving away the tickets to State fans only before the game. In my fifty plus years as a season ticket holder, we have lost more than we won, but very often our opponents and many of their famous coaches regularly named us as the physical team that they always dreaded playing. I don't think finesse football, especially on offense will ever work in the SEC West and I really don't think other teams dread playing us anymore.

[vindastra]

They don’t hand out trophies for physical football. The physical football or RTGDB never won anything meaningful for us. I for one am perfectly fine with air-raid or finesse ball and see if it will take us anywhere.

Texas A&M played exciting games during Johnny Football years.

[dawgday166]

The 49ers offense in the 80s was considered finesse. But they still blocked and tackled folks. Jerry Rice blocked folks. So did Rathman & Craig.

[Todd4State]

They don’t hand out trophies for physical football. The physical football or RTGDB never won anything meaningful for us. I for one am perfectly fine with air-raid or finesse ball and see if it will take us anywhere.

Texas A&M played exciting games during Johnny Football years.


The 49ers offense in the 80s was considered finesse. But they still blocked and tackled folks. Jerry Rice blocked folks. So did Rathman & Craig.

This all day. For both posts. And playing "finesse" football technically hasn't set us back this far- we won 8 games last year and still have a good shot to go to a bowl again this year. It took Dan about five years to get us from 6-8 wins to 8-9 wins consistently. It's going to take Joe a few years to get us over the next hurdle too. And we're going to have to complete passes consistently to do that. The good news is we have our QB on campus to do that. And we're not abandoning the run totally either.

[Goldendawg]

They don?t hand out trophies for physical football. The physical football or RTGDB never won anything meaningful for us. I for one am perfectly fine with air-raid or finesse ball and see if it will take us anywhere.

Texas A&M played exciting games during Johnny Football years.

Won the West in 1998 playing physical style FB and I was there in Atlanta and the year was meaningful. Let me know when we get there again after watching KSU kill us in the trenches today. Would like to see it again in my lifetime.

[Todd4State]

Won the West in 1998 playing physical style FB and I was there in Atlanta and the year was meaningful. Let me know when we get there again after watching KSU kill us in the trenches today. Would like to see it again in my lifetime.

Even that team lost five games. If we run the ball all the time people will just put mine in the box and shut it down.

[Goldendawg]

Even that team lost five games. If we run the ball all the time people will just put mine in the box and shut it down.

I was especially replying to the statement that that style FB never won us anything meaningful. Only West title in my life and thought we had the SEC title after the Prentiss punt return. I do not however think Jo's O will ever work against good SEC D's. JMO. Hail State!

[dantheman4248]

I was especially replying to the statement that that style FB never won us anything meaningful. Only West title in my life and thought we had the SEC title after the Prentiss punt return. I do not however think Jo's O will ever work against good SEC D's. JMO. Hail State!

Even LSU sees the writing on the wall this is such a bad take. Just cause Joe isn’t doing it doesn’t mean the RPO deep field offense isn’t working. Clemson, Bama, now LSU, Oklahoma, Ohio State, etc. They aren’t running smashmouth football. Game has changed. It doesn’t work.

Joe’s style is what the future is. Joe may not be the right captain to playcall it or his specific brand of it may fail, but this is the style that college football is turning to and what winning teams are doing.

[Goldendawg]

Even LSU sees the writing on the wall this is such a bad take. Just cause Joe isn’t doing it doesn’t mean the RPO deep field offense isn’t working. Clemson, Bama, now LSU, Oklahoma, Ohio State, etc. They aren’t running smashmouth football. Game has changed. It doesn’t work.

Joe’s style is what the future is. Joe may not be the right captain to playcall it or his specific brand of it may fail, but this is the style that college football is turning to and what winning teams are doing.

Here's to hoping for more success in the future, cause today was a poor look at the present. JMO. Forgive me for no rainbows or unicorns on my sunburn.**** I'll be back for the KY game with my cowbell as the blisters on my finger will be better. Hail State!

[trojandawg]

They already do line up the box with the formations that we choose to run that bunch up the entire formation.

[dantheman4248]

Here's to hoping for more success in the future, cause today was a poor look at the present. JMO. Forgive me for no rainbows or unicorns on my sunburn.**** I'll be back for the KY game with my cowbell as the blisters on my finger will be better. Hail State!

It’s not the system, it’s the playcalling or rather the belief that whoever he has on the field at that time can execute his plan 100%. We don’t have that luxury. He has to learn that in the transition period from Mullen’s players to his players that he has to take the reigns sometime and abide by Mullen’s concepts. The fact he did it against Auburn last year and refuses to do it against anyone else is what is so perplexing. With a true freshman QB in who is a good running threat he has to simplify the offense and only call one play instead of 2 or 3 at the line and read what the defense gives you. Sometimes you gotta line up and say I’m taking this here period. Should have had more emphasis on handing it to Kylin the entire 4th. Your hb goes 5 yds, 3 yds, 3rd & 2. You don’t trust the freshman qb and wrs who have dropped a ton. You trust the workhorse back with 100 yds. Period. That’s where Joe is failing.

[Todd4State]

I was especially replying to the statement that that style FB never won us anything meaningful. Only West title in my life and thought we had the SEC title after the Prentiss punt return. I do not however think Jo's O will ever work against good SEC D's. JMO. Hail State!

What offense works against good SEC d's?

I seriously want to know what the expectation here is?

[Bothrops]

It seems we need a hybrid of air raid and power running. I'm not sure if any offense can be successful at State though. At least not to the level we could live with. Our defense will come back if we can keep our coaches.

[Todd4State]

It’s not the system, it’s the playcalling or rather the belief that whoever he has on the field at that time can execute his plan 100%. We don’t have that luxury. He has to learn that in the transition period from Mullen’s players to his players that he has to take the reigns sometime and abide by Mullen’s concepts. The fact he did it against Auburn last year and refuses to do it against anyone else is what is so perplexing. With a true freshman QB in who is a good running threat he has to simplify the offense and only call one play instead of 2 or 3 at the line and read what the defense gives you. Sometimes you gotta line up and say I’m taking this here period. Should have had more emphasis on handing it to Kylin the entire 4th. Your hb goes 5 yds, 3 yds, 3rd & 2. You don’t trust the freshman qb and wrs who have dropped a ton. You trust the workhorse back with 100 yds. Period. That’s where Joe is failing.

You nailed it. I think he didn't want to run Kylin three times in a row to avoid being predictable. But in that case a QB run of some kind would have been a better option than throwing the ball. It would be nice to incorporate some jet sweeps or something like that to add some versatility to what we want to do.

[dantheman4248]

What offense works against good SEC d's?

I seriously want to know what the expectation here is?

Clemson. They’re modeled after us so why can’t we win.****

[Mobile Bay]

Are you delusional? We have 1-2 more wins om our schedule tops. We ain't going to a bowl

[Todd4State]

It seems we need a hybrid of air raid and power running. I'm not sure if any offense can be successful at State though. At least not to the level we could live with. Our defense will come back if we can keep our coaches.

I think part of the issue is we have some fans that strongly believe that running is the way to go and some that want balance between passing and running.

So we have people that degrade the current coach.

[trojandawg]

I believe there is a coach at Houston that runs a modified version of that offense with more emphasis on the run. Not sure if I want him or if he would come here after just moving there supposedly for family.

[dantheman4248]

You nailed it. I think he didn't want to run Kylin three times in a row to avoid being predictable. But in that case a QB run of some kind would have been a better option than throwing the ball. It would be nice to incorporate some jet sweeps or something like that to add some versatility to what we want to do.

It’s telling the one drive we moved the ball well in the 4th Q looked like cliche Dak/Dan ball and has 0 passing yards. Only got stopped by shooting ourselves in the foot and also trying to go back to the passing. If we run a read option run (no pass concept) with Kylin / Shrader on 90% of plays in the 4th Q we win.

[dantheman4248]

Are you delusional? We have 1-2 more wins om our schedule tops. We ain't going to a bowl


Loser post. Imagine saying this after a team almost won with a hurt QB one half and a true freshman the other.

[trojandawg]

The Meyer and Mullen style offenses will work against good SEC defenses. They have worked. The Oklahoma brand of offense also works. They just haven?t had the defense to keep up.

[Goldendawg]

What offense works against good SEC d's?

I seriously want to know what the expectation here is?

I'll know it when I see it when SEC games start. I'm no coach, just a lifelong MSU fan. I honestly thought we would go much better than 8-5 last year and predicted an 8-4 that I would be very proud of this year. Some of you have pointed out RPO is here to stay no matter who the coach or team. I just want to win and I never dreamed we could lose to KSU. We got killed in the trenches today. KY game will be very interesting with a lot on the line for a good year for both teams.

[Todd4State]

It?s telling the one drive we moved the ball well in the 4th Q looked like cliche Dak/Dan ball and has 0 passing yards. Only got stopped by shooting ourselves in the foot and also trying to go back to the passing. If we run a read option run (no pass concept) with Kylin / Shrader on 90% of plays in the 4th Q we win.

Agree.

[trojandawg]

That?s to the fault of Moorhead and his philosophy. He wants the shots down the field even if he is running the ball successfully. His philosophy says you must pass downfield to open up the field if that?s what the defense shows. Even if it?s not high percentage and your receivers haven?t caught well

[Todd4State]

I'll know it when I see it when SEC games start. I'm no coach, just a lifelong MSU fan. I honestly thought we would go much better than 8-5 last year and predicted an 8-4 that I would be very proud of this year. Some of you have pointed out RPO is here to stay no matter who the coach or team. I just want to win and I never dreamed we could lose to KSU. We got killed in the trenches today. KY game will be very interesting with a lot on the line for a good year for both teams.

If you don't have a clear resonable expectation I would say the odds are you'll never be happy with any offense we run. Last year we had the number 1-2 defense in the country and we gave up 20 something points at most in any single game.

[Todd4State]

That?s to the fault of Moorhead and his philosophy. He wants the shots down the field even if he is running the ball successfully. His philosophy says you must pass downfield to open up the field if that?s what the defense shows. Even if it?s not high percentage and your receivers haven?t caught well

How many deep TD's have we had this year? At least one in every game. Our receivers are much better. Shrader threw a lot of balls behind people

[Goldendawg]

If you don't have a clear resonable expectation I would say the odds are you'll never be happy with any offense we run. Last year we had the number 1-2 defense in the country and we gave up 20 something points at most in any single game.

I have no problem with your opinions, but don't have to agree with you. I want success at State, not what I saw today. As balanced as an attack as possible, better play calling, better special teams, a win Sat, 4-4 in the conference to build on for next year, and very competitive in SEC losses. Also, a good bowl. Hail State!

[trojandawg]

I understand we have had a few more deep balls caught this year against g5. And what one today against p5? I?m just saying if you are running it very well in the 4th quarter and the qb is off, damn it run it. Spread the field and let kylin and Shrader do it.

[Goldendawg]

I understand we have had a few more deep balls caught this year against g5. And what one today against p5? I?m just saying if you are running it very well in the 4th quarter and the qb is off, damn it run it. Spread the field and let kylin and Shrader do it.

Running the ball under any circumstances is no longer acceptable.**** Good night, Hail State and beat KY Sat!

[Maroonthirteen]

It?s not the system, it?s the playcalling or rather the belief that whoever he has on the field at that time can execute his plan 100%. We don?t have that luxury. He has to learn that in the transition period from Mullen?s players to his players that he has to take the reigns sometime and abide by Mullen?s concepts. The fact he did it against Auburn last year and refuses to do it against anyone else is what is so perplexing. With a true freshman QB in who is a good running threat he has to simplify the offense and only call one play instead of 2 or 3 at the line and read what the defense gives you. Sometimes you gotta line up and say I?m taking this here period. Should have had more emphasis on handing it to Kylin the entire 4th. Your hb goes 5 yds, 3 yds, 3rd & 2. You don?t trust the freshman qb and wrs who have dropped a ton. You trust the workhorse back with 100 yds. Period. That?s where Joe is failing.

This!

Matt Stinchcomb said during the OM game .... something to the effect of .... some college coaches are making things to complicated. You have to fit your offense to your personnel and allow athletes to make plays. Not stand at the line of scrimmage and make a bunch of different reads.

JoMo believes he can out smart everyone. No. Trust your players. Go with the best available.

[MetEdDawg]

I think we are still missing the boat. The coach and their ability to call plays is way less important than recruiting. Moorhead can recruit better and right now that's more important, especially in years 1 and 2. We will never be able to get a coach that just comes in and out strategized the SEC to a bunch of victories.

We need a recruiter first and a coach 2nd. Moorhead is still working with what Dan left us and that cupboard was bare in a lot of places. I'll keep saying it. Moorhead had the way tougher job than Mullen did. It takes a lot more work to go from 8 to 10 wins per year than it does to go 3 to 7 wins per year. Here's the true test. If you give us a coach like Saban or Dabo or any other top flight coach, how many games does this team win under the exact same circumstances? I think If the answer is only 1-2 games more than realistically Moorhead is where he should be as a first time D1 HC. To me, no matter who coached this team, the ceiling was 9 wins. So if we finish with 7, I'm fine. And considering most on here said they would be happy with 7 I'm not sure why some are surprised.

[msstate7]

I think we are still missing the boat. The coach and their ability to call plays is way less important than recruiting. Moorhead can recruit better and right now that's more important, especially in years 1 and 2. We will never be able to get a coach that just comes in and out strategized the SEC to a bunch of victories.

We need a recruiter first and a coach 2nd. Moorhead is still working with what Dan left us and that cupboard was bare in a lot of places. I'll keep saying it. Moorhead had the way tougher job than Mullen did. It takes a lot more work to go from 8 to 10 wins per year than it does to go 3 to 7 wins per year. Here's the true test. If you give us a coach like Saban or Dabo or any other top flight coach, how many games does this team win under the exact same circumstances? I think If the answer is only 1-2 games more than realistically Moorhead is where he should be as a first time D1 HC. To me, no matter who coached this team, the ceiling was 9 wins. So if we finish with 7, I'm fine. And considering most on here said they would be happy with 7 I'm not sure why some are surprised.

You have done a 180. You said bet the farm on us last week... wouldn't even be close.

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76369-Screw-it&p=1147543 (post 4)

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76356-KSU-Call-your-shot&p=1147262&styleid=4 (Post 11)

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76302-State-s-updated-FPI-chances-by-game&p=1146593 (Post 7)

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76255-Stevens-is-fine&p=1145550 (post 2)

[Maroonthirteen]

I agree with all that Met.

Well said

[MetEdDawg]

You have done a 180. You said bet the farm on us last week... wouldn't even be close.

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76369-Screw-it&p=1147543 (post 4)

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76356-KSU-Call-your-shot&p=1147262&styleid=4 (Post 11)

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76302-State-s-updated-FPI-chances-by-game&p=1146593 (Post 7)

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?76255-Stevens-is-fine&p=1145550 (post 2)

I won't back down from it. I thought we would win semi easily. So you don't have to bring back old threads. I'll just admit that. But I've never backed down from the fact I thought Mullen left us a depleted roster. I just thought we were talented enough to overcome that at home. We weren't. DL is rough. OL is banged up. True freshmen QB had to come in halfway through the game.

If you don't see talent deficiencies on this roster you have an agenda of just wanting Moorhead gone no matter facts. He can't fix it in 2 recruiting cycles. Add the injuries and suspensions and we are in a not great spot. Our WRs are bad and for the exception of 1-2 years under Mullen, they've always been bad. Plus Whop is suspended.

I've already decided this year as a whole can't accurately reflect Moorhead. But you look at a kid like Shrader and see what can happen with a kid Moorhead really likes that gets his philosophy and you have to have some glimmer of offensive hope that he's not an idiot. Shrader can get the job done over the next 3 years. But right now he has limitations because he's a true freshman QB.

Next year to me no matter what is the year we see what Moorhead truly is. Lot of his guys will be the majority of the 2 deep and at this pace I think we could have some juniors we thought might leave come back. Could have some talent to work with. But we've got to continue bringing in talent and we are doing that.

[confucius say]

Are you delusional? We have 1-2 more wins om our schedule tops. We ain't going to a bowl

$200 says we go to a bowl game. You in?

[timotheus]

Better get more effort up front on both sides or UK and UT will torch the team. KT and Mayden both may end up playing against LSU and Auburn cuz the other 2 QB's will be under the tent being examined.

[confucius say]

Better get more effort up front on both sides or UK and UT will torch the team. KT and Mayden both may end up playing against LSU and Auburn cuz the other 2 QB's will be under the tent being examined.

Do you think our OL was bad yesterday? Did we not rush for around 200 with a banged up OL and a defense that was flying downhill to stop the run all day?

[timotheus]

They played Ok at times but I say they pretty much got whooped by a bunch of white cornbread fed boys from Kansas. I'll put it like this, if we have the same effort up front on offense against UK, auburn, UT, A%M, LSU then we get beat by more points than yesterday cuz we'll be punting from our end zone way too much. I'm not much for O lineman celebrating and gesturing after an actual nice block on one play only to be bull rushed on the next.

[dantheman4248]

I understand we have had a few more deep balls caught this year against g5. And what one today against p5? I?m just saying if you are running it very well in the 4th quarter and the qb is off, damn it run it. Spread the field and let kylin and Shrader do it.

I whole heartedly agree with this. Read my posts and I’ve been chastising the playcalling (which includes formation setup, giving the option to a true freshman to read defenses and pass, etc.) We did it one drive and then had a series of downs he brain farted on what got us down the field.

[dantheman4248]

They played Ok at times but I say they pretty much got whooped by a bunch of white cornbread fed boys from Kansas. I'll put it like this, if we have the same effort up front on offense against UK, auburn, UT, A%M, LSU then we get beat by more points than yesterday cuz we'll be punting from our end zone way too much. I'm not much for O lineman celebrating and gesturing after an actual nice block on one play only to be bull rushed on the next.


LSU’s defense has played as soft as us this year but it’s not possible to think critically about other teams.

Bettors note: If Tommy is all healthy for that game, hammer the over.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Won the West in 1998 playing physical style FB and I was there in Atlanta and the year was meaningful. Let me know when we get there again after watching KSU kill us in the trenches today. Would like to see it again in my lifetime.

Yep won the west in 1998 all while losing to a 4-7 LSU team, a 6-5 UK team, and a 3 TD loss to a 5-6 Oklahoma State team.

Our fanbase's revisionist history is really impressive at times.

[Coursesuper]

Yep won the west in 1998 all while losing to a 4-7 LSU team, a 6-5 UK team, and a 3 TD loss to a 5-6 Oklahoma State team.

Our fanbase's revisionist history is really impressive at times.

Bringing up 1998 might as well be 1898 it has absolutely zero relevance with the college football landscape today. The entire thing is completely different.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Bringing up 1998 might as well be 1898 it has absolutely zero relevance with the college football landscape today. The entire thing is completely different.

I agree with you. I wasn't the one that brought it up. But the point is that even in our most successful year ever as a program, we still managed to lose to 2 sub .500 teams and a very mediocre UK team. Our fans just seem to remember those teams as 95' Nebraska or something

[Jack Lambert]

Yep won the west in 1998 all while losing to a 4-7 LSU team, a 6-5 UK team, and a 3 TD loss to a 5-6 Oklahoma State team.

Our fanbase's revisionist history is really impressive at times.

Also 1998 we were 8-3, and won the West in a two way tie breaker to a ranked team that finished with 9 wins.

[Sparrows2]

Also 1998 we were 8-3, and won the West in a two way tie breaker to a ranked team that finished with 9 wins.

Ah for the days before Saban was at Bama
Hell arkansas won the west like 2times
Croom beat Alabama twice

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Also 1998 we were 8-3, and won the West in a two way tie breaker to a ranked team that finished with 9 wins.

Right. 8 wins. Same as last year

[Coursesuper]

Ah for the days before Saban was at Bama
Hell arkansas won the west like 2times
Croom beat Alabama twice

You are missing the point, who do you think runs D1 , or whatever they call it now, football? The personalities in the game don't matter. Saba, Urban etc etc, don't matter.

[Sparrows2]

You are missing the point, who do you think runs D1 , or whatever they call it now, football? The personalities in the game don't matter. Saba, Urban etc etc, don't matter.

No you are missing the point, the 2018 team easily wins the SEC west of 1997

[Coursesuper]

No you are missing the point, the 2018 team easily wins the SEC west of 1997

Come again? Are you just a troll because no one can be that thick, really. Those teams have exactly dick to do with each other and are from a different era. They are alike only in they were both Mississippi State teams.

I'm going to make this very very simple so even those like you and can understand. The television networks control the game and run the playoffs in today's game. ESPN owns bowl games, why do you think they have invested in that? They are the ones funneling ,what they don't take as profit, advertising dollars to the conferences. Now if you really think that there is a level playing field in today's environment you need to reevaluate your decision making paradigm.

And 20 years from now the current landscape will be unrecognizable. Soon enough those that can afford it will leave the conference set up all together and form their own league. The tv revenue will be to much for the blue bloods to turn down and those that can afford will go their own way. Then try to compare team from 20 plus years apart.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Even LSU sees the writing on the wall this is such a bad take. Just cause Joe isn?t doing it doesn?t mean the RPO deep field offense isn?t working. Clemson, Bama, now LSU, Oklahoma, Ohio State, etc. They aren?t running smashmouth football. Game has changed. It doesn?t work.

Joe?s style is what the future is. Joe may not be the right captain to playcall it or his specific brand of it may fail, but this is the style that college football is turning to and what winning teams are doing.

Thats not true. All of those teams are still running power counter zone etc. Especially Oklahoma. Football is still going to come down to who can run it and who can stop it. There are variables like turnovers special teams but the team who wins is 9/10 the team who can stop the run and who can run it. If you dont believe that then you are Mike Leach who will never win a title in his life bc the air raid is more important to him than a championship.


I do hope yall understand that you can do both. Its not all one way or the other. Bama is still running the ball Saban made it a point this offseason to getting back to who they are ''The Bama Brand'' OU kills people with counter, UGA is still probably 60-40 run, Ohio St is running the ball more than they throw it and LSU is just living a fad right now. They will get back to pounding it bc you cant drop back 50 times a game and win in this league. You can vs Texas bc they suck on defense