Why the K- St concerns?

[Coach007]

I don't see it. I love their hire and I think they will get better. But come on..


Bowling Green?? Why would anybody be surprised that a team could RUN on the last ranked rush defense? No, It's not because of K-State.. They were dead last last year in run defense and continue you that trend this year. That offense was ranked 105 last year and the rushing offense was 117th!

Then they allowed an FCS team to run for 150 on them.


Seriously.... Why the concern?


This will be another game where we get out to a lead, play a ton of players for experience and depth and the score will look closer than it was.

[chef dixon]

I think people are worried about their rushing attack on us, but in reality I do not see a scenario where they come close to stopping us if we feed Kylin and Gibson. Home field will be worth at least a handful of defensive stops for us

[DancingRabbit]

I don't think many are too bullish on K-state right at the moment. Just jittery about Tommy's health.

Just like that Southern Miss 100 yard rushing record, the K-state offense will come back to earth a little. We do need to get out to a lead.

I really like the chemistry with our team. I just flipped the TV to youtube and watched about 12 player after practice PCs. Great mix of confidence and humility, plus smarts and a sense of humor. Good qualities.

[Cooterpoot]

They return 15 starters, Stevens is banged up, and our defense hasn’t been good.

[chef dixon]

They return 15 starters, Stevens is banged up, and our defense hasn’t been good.

Not saying it never matters, but returning 15 starters from a shit team is not always a good thing

[Coach007]

They return 15 starters, Stevens is banged up, and our defense hasn’t been good.

We could put KT or Shrader in that game and it be a win.

- Our defense has been good. Don't mistake the play of younger guys for depth as not good.

- We allowed a little over 200 yards to ULL. In the 4th quarter, they gained 8, 69, 99, 32. That is sissy yards.
- Do the same with USM. How many yards did they have at the 28-0 mark in the game? 149!

Our defense is not as good as last year, but we are not HALF as bad (literally speaking) as some think.

[Coach007]

Not saying it never matters, but returning 15 starters from a shit team is not always a good thing

Those starters allow an FCS team to rush for 150. Hill is NOT FCS. Our OL is NOT FCS. We could rotate our 4 RBs in that game and never throw a pass and beat them

[Bothrops]

Both offenses will prevail, it's just a matter of which one scores the most in the 4th quarter. I hope Stevens can play the duration.

[Bothrops]

Those starters allow an FCS team to rush for 150. Hill is NOT FCS. Our OL is NOT FCS. We could rotate our 4 RBs in that game and never throw a pass and beat them

This is not last year's defense, mang.

[dantheman4248]

Kansas State is the worst of the first 3 teams on our schedule. That talent is bare and they’ve played disciplined against air. They won’t have the talent to take advantage of our mental lapses on defense. MSU 45 KSU 17.

[Scared_Hitless]

My thing is their recruiting averages in the 60's and everyone on this board puts a ton of stock into that ranking when it is not in our favor. Tennessee for example before the season. We are more talented, more athletic, and faster than them at every position. We are going to bully them offensively similar to last year. They have a weak D-Line and we will name our score. Now the one thing they have is a good Senior Laden Oline, but our D-Line will force more stops than theirs and we win and cover. Kentucky will be the first true test for this team.

[dawgday166]

After reading your posts I'm convinced we will easily whip Bama, LSU, and AU and those won't be that close either ... No one can stop our offense and our D has been taking it extra easy so as to not show too much of our scheme to other teams on our schedule.

So I have zero concerns about K-State. And K-State isn't nearly as good as USA was in 2016 when they beat Dan Mullen, who really sucks as a coach.

[StateDawg44]

Both offenses will prevail, it's just a matter of which one scores the most in the 4th quarter. I hope Stevens can play the duration.

No way it comes down to the 4th.

[MrKotter]

After reading your posts I'm convinced we will easily whip Bama, LSU, and AU and those won't be that close either ... No one can stop our offense and our D has been taking it extra easy so as to not show too much of our scheme to other teams on our schedule.

So I have zero concerns about K-State. And K-State isn't nearly as good as USA was in 2016 when they beat Dan Mullen, who really sucks as a coach.

Somebody being positive about State obviously makes you go full bitch. Why are you upset because somebody thinks State beats ksu?

[confucius say]

I don?t any on here have concerns with our offense scoring points against them.

I do think there are concerns, valid ones, with them running the ball against us. They have 5 SR OL and two good backs. Plus a physical, run first mentality. And a coach who has won 24 straight games.

Playing at home should help, even if the crowd is average and dead like last week, but If autry is a no go they will rush for 175-200 yards.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Sometimes the best defense is a offense. We have the advantage in the passing game and they have to respect that. Whereas they have only completed less than 50% this year and our backend is the strength of the d. I fully expect to see 8 and 9 man 7 yard box for us this week and force them to beat us throwing the ball.

[Ezsoil]

I'm out of town and just happened to be eating in a restaurant where the replay of the Bowling Green game was being played ...first, let me say Bowling Green was bad....and the game got out of hand early.... but all of the concern with Kansas State taking advantage of our DL depth is misguided as they rarely ran between the tackles and the a majority of their yards were outside runs, or jet sweeps....I'd say make them pass and let our secondary take over...

[TrapGame]

I think we load the box and see if K State can throw on us. See if Dantzler can pick a couple.

I don't see them stopping Kylin. That dude is a beast this year.

[KOdawg1]

Outside of Abilene Christian, I think we need to go into every game with a sense of caution. I think this forces us to take the ?one game at a time? approach, and I think we need that this year with all of the suspensions and question marks on defense.

[Captain Falcon]

With the exception of last season, they are a consistent bowl team in a Power 5 conference with the occasional 9+ win season sprinkled in every few years. They appear to have made a really strong coaching hire and are seemingly headed in the right direction. And questions about our defense right now are very legitimate.

Vegas only favors us by 8 points at home in this game, meaning we'd be less than a TD favorite if this were not in Starkville. It's an early kickoff with a crowd that will probably have a couple of thousand empty seats and won't be that great of an atmosphere. There's a path for them to beat us, and frankly I don't think it would be just a huge upset if they did. At least on the national scale, both programs are generally viewed in a similar light.

We should win at home but there are reasons to think it's possible that we don't win.

[dantheman4248]

Outside of Abilene Christian, I think we need to go into every game with a sense of caution. I think this forces us to take the ?one game at a time? approach, and I think we need that this year with all of the suspensions and question marks on defense.

That’s coaching 101. One game at a time.

This is a message board. We don’t need to live that cautiously.

[dantheman4248]

With the exception of last season, they are a consistent bowl team in a Power 5 conference with the occasional 9+ win season sprinkled in every few years. They appear to have made a really strong coaching hire and are seemingly headed in the right direction. And questions about our defense right now are very legitimate.

Vegas only favors us by 8 points at home in this game, meaning we'd be less than a TD favorite if this were not in Starkville. It's an early kickoff with a crowd that will probably have a couple of thousand empty seats and won't be that great of an atmosphere. There's a path for them to beat us, and frankly I don't think it would be just a huge upset if they did. At least on the national scale, both programs are generally viewed in a similar light.

We should win at home but there are reasons to think it's possible that we don't win.

Vegas opened at 9 and before Tommy had any update released. It’s the betting public that is all over Kansas State, not Vegas. Most statistical models have this as a double digit win.

[Tbonewannabe]

After reading your posts I'm convinced we will easily whip Bama, LSU, and AU and those won't be that close either ... No one can stop our offense and our D has been taking it extra easy so as to not show too much of our scheme to other teams on our schedule.

So I have zero concerns about K-State. And K-State isn't nearly as good as USA was in 2016 when they beat Dan Mullen, who really sucks as a coach.

I am definitely not saying we win those games but you could post the exact same thing in 2014. Great offense and question marks on defense but have done enough to win safely.

[Coach007]

I don?t any on here have concerns with our offense scoring points against them.

I do think there are concerns, valid ones, with them running the ball against us. They have 5 SR OL and two good backs. Plus a physical, run first mentality. And a coach who has won 24 straight games.

Playing at home should help, even if the crowd is average and dead like last week, but If autry is a no go they will rush for 175-200 yards.

Based on what they did to the 127 Rush defense last year who also ranked in the 100s on offense and continue both trends this year?

[Cooterpoot]

We could put KT or Shrader in that game and it be a win.

- Our defense has been good. Don't mistake the play of younger guys for depth as not good.

- We allowed a little over 200 yards to ULL. In the 4th quarter, they gained 8, 69, 99, 32. That is sissy yards.
- Do the same with USM. How many yards did they have at the 28-0 mark in the game? 149!

Our defense is not as good as last year, but we are not HALF as bad (literally speaking) as some think.

Keep trying to change the world one ray of sunshine at a time. Our defense has issues. When a team returns 7 on offense and 8 on defense, I expect an improved team. We’ll win, but they’ll score.

[Coach007]

Keep trying to change the world one ray of sunshine at a time. Our defense has issues. When a team returns 7 on offense and 8 on defense, I expect an improved team. We’ll win, but they’ll score.

We will play a lot of 3 LBs sets. This game will not be an issue.

[Scared_Hitless]

I just don't see it they have no game breaking athletes, they are going to have to tick away 3 to 5 yards at a time. We will make enough TFLs and negative plays to keep them honest and when they are forced to throw they will make mistakes. We will not struggle with their running game overall, look for us to go 4-3 or even 5-2 and play man. We will stop the run and our offense will run wild. We win and cover probably 38-21 or so. Where the game is not in doubt.

[msstate7]

I just don't see it they have no game breaking athletes, they are going to have to tick away 3 to 5 yards at a time. We will make enough TFLs and negative plays to keep them honest and when they are forced to throw they will make mistakes. We will not struggle with their running game overall, look for us to go 4-3 or even 5-2 and play man. We will stop the run and our offense will run wild. We win and cover probably 38-21 or so. Where the game is not in doubt.

So far, we've faced 2 G5 teams, and we're giving up 5.91 yds/play (99th nationally). Keep in mind, usm was without their best wr and top 2 RBs. We have shown nothing so far to give me confidence in our defense

[Liverpooldawg]

I don't see it. I love their hire and I think they will get better. But come on..


Bowling Green?? Why would anybody be surprised that a team could RUN on the last ranked rush defense? No, It's not because of K-State.. They were dead last last year in run defense and continue you that trend this year. That offense was ranked 105 last year and the rushing offense was 117th!

Then they allowed an FCS team to run for 150 on them.


Seriously.... Why the concern?


This will be another game where we get out to a lead, play a ton of players for experience and depth and the score will look closer than it was.

We ain't exactly been playing powerhouses either. We still have no idea what WE have, except on defense. Our D isn't that great. We have NO idea what K state has. There is reason for concern.

[Homedawg]

We will play a lot of 3 LBs sets. This game will not be an issue.

When we played 3 lb against ul la la it wasn't good. Washington isn't good.

[Homedawg]

So far, we've faced 2 G5 teams, and we're giving up 5.91 yds/play (99th nationally). Keep in mind, usm was without their best wr and top 2 RBs. We have shown nothing so far to give me confidence in our defense

Usm had more rushing yards on 4 of their first ten plays individually, than they had against Alcorn rushing in 3 quarters. Nothing wrong w our rushing D****

[CovertDawg]

Kansas State was operating in the stone ages last year. They will be much more precise this year and have a better scheme. I am confident Stevens can pick them apart on offense but it could be a game like Iowa where if we make a few key drops or turnovers then all of the sudden you look at the scoreboard and we have lost the game. More concerned about this game than Kentucky.

[dawgday166]

Somebody being positive about State obviously makes you go full bitch. Why are you upset because somebody thinks State beats ksu?

I was kidding dude. Probably should've used ****. I think we beat KSU too, but don't want to discount anyone on our schedule.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don't have as much worry as I do a hint of doubt. These are the games Kleiman lived for at NDSU. Taking his team into a major P5 program and playing loose and like you have nothing to lose. There's also the fact that any perceived home field advantage we might have the weather and the start time has the ability to erase that. I think we win and I think we cover, but it's going to be closer than some think it will be.

[dawgday166]

I am definitely not saying we win those games but you could post the exact same thing in 2014. Great offense and question marks on defense but have done enough to win safely.

That D was much better IMO. With exception of OM and GT when they wanted to clamp down they did. We out gained Bama 423 to 323 or so in TTown. And Bama was averaging close to 600 yds when playing in TTown that year. That D also had some upper classmen high draft picks. This D probably has some draft picks but they're pretty young. The suspensions don't help any either, since Gay is probably our best defensive player.

But yea, we might could be pretty decent.

[Coach007]

So far, we've faced 2 G5 teams, and we're giving up 5.91 yds/play (99th nationally). Keep in mind, usm was without their best wr and top 2 RBs. We have shown nothing so far to give me confidence in our defense

We allowed USM 149 and the score was 28-0 towards the end of the 3rd quarter. You may want to count the plays up til that point and do your division to get your YPC. Do up til the 4th quarter with ULL. That was barely over 200 yards allowed. Yards those teams got after that is nothing more than growing pains for new guys.

[confucius say]

Based on what they did to the 127 Rush defense last year who also ranked in the 100s on offense and continue both trends this year?

No. It?s based on the fact that we are struggling to stop the run, especially without autry.

[Coach007]

No. It?s based on the fact that we are struggling to stop the run, especially without autry.

But we didn't.

149 yards total vs USM and the score was 28-0
200 yards vs ULL (with backs that rushed for 3000 yards last year and a returning OL) and the score was 35-14 and should not have been that close.

All yards after that were chump junk yards

[Cooterpoot]

We played two weak teams. KSU would beat both. One of those was a 7 pt game in the 4th. Our defense has issues. Big issues up front. Bad enough we’ll be fortunate to win more than 2 division games this year.

[Bubb Rubb]

But we didn't.

149 yards total vs USM and the score was 28-0
200 yards vs ULL (with backs that rushed for 3000 yards last year and a returning OL) and the score was 35-14 and should not have been that close.

All yards after that were chump junk yards

You sound stupid when you parse statistics like that. Both games were more competitive than they needed to be and it wasn?t because we didn?t give a shit and gave up junk yards. Games are four quarters, not two and a half. We have to do a better job of closing out games against inferior competition.

I don?t expect us to lose this Saturday but we better get it figured out or we are going to find ourselves on the wrong side of an ugly loss.

[Pollodawg]

I can?t wait until after State wins, and they start taking potshots at Mississippi in general, like every butt-hurt, salty, out-of-state team does after we beat that ass. Have ya looked around Kansas? The most famous thing that ever happened there was the Clutter family murders in the sixties.

Auntie M don?t care about Wildcat football.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I can?t wait until after State wins, and they start taking potshots at Mississippi in general, like every butt-hurt, salty, out-of-state team does after we beat that ass. Have ya looked around Kansas? The most famous thing that ever happened there was the Clutter family murders in the sixties.

Auntie M don?t care about Wildcat football.

Hell, they're already doing that before they play us. And we know that 17er from Kentucky Sports Radio will do the same thing next week that he always does when Kentucky travels to Starkville.

[HancockCountyDog]

I think most on here expect us to win. Vegas has us as a 7 point favorite. Seems about right.

I feel really good about our offense and not so great about our defense. As usual I think we underestimated how much we lost on defense and how that would affect this year's team.

Spoiler alert - losing three first round talents on defense along with several other solid depth players is something that we can't easily replace.

[Homedawg]

I can?t wait until after State wins, and they start taking potshots at Mississippi in general, like every butt-hurt, salty, out-of-state team does after we beat that ass. Have ya looked around Kansas? The most famous thing that ever happened there was the Clutter family murders in the sixties.

Auntie M don?t care about Wildcat football.

Thanks for the info, always thought it was Dorothy going back there to be honest.....

[R2Dawg]

That?s coaching 101. One game at a time.

This is a message board. We don?t need to live that cautiously.

Always amazes me folks don't know the difference in the locker room and a message board. If I am playing, I think anyone can beat us and we can beat anyone on any given day. Fans, we can say whatever we think and it is OK.

[chef dixon]

Our team is just easy to rip and pick apart this year for our fans. Before USM it was we better be careful, their D is stout, etc etc.. then we pretty much spanked their ass shorthanded. I think our defense has improved a little bit through 2 games, but yes we will give up some yards and points this weekend. But the fact of the matter is we aren't that bad of a team. Our offense is solid and on defense we have playmakers and seem to have a knack for creating turnovers. I realize Coach007 is non stop positivity but for some of our fans there's equally unwarranted nonstop negativity.

[confucius say]

Always amazes me folks don't know the difference in the locker room and a message board. If I am playing, I think anyone can beat us and we can beat anyone on any given day. Fans, we can say whatever we think and it is OK.

While true largely, fans? mindset absolutely has the potential to permeate a locker room in this social media age. Coaches do their best to guard against it, but it absolutely happens.

[msugolf]

Always amazes me folks don't know the difference in the locker room and a message board. If I am playing, I think anyone can beat us and we can beat anyone on any given day. Fans, we can say whatever we think and it is OK.

Exactly! Some of these people are afraid of leaving their own house out of fear of tripping over their feet.

[confucius say]

But we didn't.

149 yards total vs USM and the score was 28-0
200 yards vs ULL (with backs that rushed for 3000 yards last year and a returning OL) and the score was 35-14 and should not have been that close.

All yards after that were chump junk yards

I limited my take to absent autry. So usm doesn?t count.

We had our 1s in the fourth quarter against ull. Don?t act like that that fourth quarter didn?t count. It did and our defense was powerless to stop them despite playing our starters.

[TrapGame]

Our team is just easy to rip and pick apart this year for our fans. Before USM it was we better be careful, their D is stout, etc etc.. then we pretty much spanked their ass shorthanded. I think our defense has improved a little bit through 2 games, but yes we will give up some yards and points this weekend. But the fact of the matter is we aren't that bad of a team. Our offense is solid and on defense we have playmakers and seem to have a knack for creating turnovers. I realize Coach007 is non stop positivity but for some of our fans there's equally unwarranted nonstop negativity.

If we beat K State by 21 and look pretty good doing it the goal posts will be moved yet again. Then those that wallow in darkness and despair will start ranting about UK's defense really isn't that bad, it's probably better than ours and their second string QB maybe better than starter they lost.

[R2Dawg]

While true largely, fans? mindset absolutely has the potential to permeate a locker room in this social media age. Coaches do their best to guard against it, but it absolutely happens.

Yeah, I agree to a point but if you got your team reading message boards or whatever and that is determining their mindset then you got bigger issues anyway.

[dantheman4248]

We played two weak teams. KSU would beat both. One of those was a 7 pt game in the 4th. Our defense has issues. Big issues up front. Bad enough we?ll be fortunate to win more than 2 division games this year.

Disagree. KSU is not that good. ULL would win. USM would put up a fight.

[tmcats]

Sometimes the best defense is a offense. We have the advantage in the passing game and they have to respect that. Whereas they have only completed less than 50% this year and our backend is the strength of the d. I fully expect to see 8 and 9 man 7 yard box for us this week and force them to beat us throwing the ball.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr

[Commercecomet24]

If we beat K State by 21 and look pretty good doing it the goal posts will be moved yet again. Then those that wallow in darkness and despair will start ranting about UK's defense really isn't that bad, it's probably better than ours and their second string QB maybe better than starter they lost.

It truly never ends. Last year they were supposed to give us trouble because of their experienced ol, their underrated defense and a great coach. Then after we beat them same ol folks said well ksu wasn't very good. Even when we beat the auburns, the lsu's, the am's its all because they weren't very good. Well you know what I remember the times we couldn't beat the ull's or the usm's, so give our team and coaches some credit for the wins and don't just say it's because the other teams having a bad year. Part of the reason a team we beat might not win 9 or 10 games that year is because we did beat them. Now I don't believe we are alabama or clemson, but we are very good, talented team.

[TrapGame]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr

You just gave every doom and gloom poster on this board a raging hard on.

[Coach007]

I limited my take to absent autry. So usm doesn?t count.

We had our 1s in the fourth quarter against ull. Don?t act like that that fourth quarter didn?t count. It did and our defense was powerless to stop them despite playing our starters.

Absolutely wrong. USM does count. We had a rotation and those guys improved from week 1 to week 2.

Wrong on the 4th quarter in 2 respects:

- The 4th does count. I never stated it didn't. I stated the game was over going into the 4th and they handled business up to that point.

- I also stated it was a massive learning experience for them. So yes it counts with that. They dominated the yards allowed until the 4th with the game in hand.

[Scared_Hitless]

It truly never ends. Last year they were supposed to give us trouble because of their experienced ol, their underrated defense and a great coach. Then after we beat them same ol folks said well ksu wasn't very good. Even when we beat the auburns, the lsu's, the am's its all because they weren't very good. Well you know what I remember the times we couldn't beat the ull's or the usm's, so give our team and coaches some credit for the wins and don't just say it's because the other teams having a bad year. Part of the reason a team we beat might not win 9 or 10 games that year is because we did beat them. Now I don't believe we are alabama or clemson, but we are very good, talented team.

Yep and then same thing when we play a terrible TN team in a few weeks. Gotta watch out for all that talent since recruiting rankings matter when they favor the opposition. We are worse on Defense but still better than KState on offense. I am excited to watch this team grow we are going to be a handful for anyone down the stretch.

[Todd4State]

Statistically speaking we're worse against the pass than the run. So far. That's I feel Ok about the K-State game but we'll see how it goes.

[tmcats]

You just gave every doom and gloom poster on this board a raging hard on.

well, i'm glad i served some good outcome.

as for the game, here's my take, we've played no one. but we beat the crap out them like back in the snyder 1.0 days, so that brings hope. coach klieman has brought a whole new scheme and attitude to k-state. that may or may not be enough to be competitive in starkville.

we visited your campus a couple years ago on our way to gulf shores. it seemed much like k-state with nice people in a real college town. our last school president came from msu. so, i've concluded msu is the k-state of the sec.

let's hope the cats are more competitive than last year, and we both go on to successful seasons. #emaw

[Cooterpoot]

Absolutely wrong. USM does count. We had a rotation and those guys improved from week 1 to week 2.

Wrong on the 4th quarter in 2 respects:

- The 4th does count. I never stated it didn't. I stated the game was over going into the 4th and they handled business up to that point.

- I also stated it was a massive learning experience for them. So yes it counts with that. They dominated the yards allowed until the 4th with the game in hand.

Our rotation was not the same in those two games. We played twice as many vs USM because USM is pathetic. Part of why everyone is questioning the use of Autry there.

[sleepy dawg]

I don't see it. I love their hire and I think they will get better. But come on..


Bowling Green?? Why would anybody be surprised that a team could RUN on the last ranked rush defense? No, It's not because of K-State.. They were dead last last year in run defense and continue you that trend this year. That offense was ranked 105 last year and the rushing offense was 117th!

Then they allowed an FCS team to run for 150 on them.


Seriously.... Why the concern?


This will be another game where we get out to a lead, play a ton of players for experience and depth and the score will look closer than it was.

There was no reason to be concerned about Kentucky last year either. I'm almost always a bit concerned. I don't have any doubt that we should be them, but you've got to play the game.

[Jack Lambert]

I don't see it. I love their hire and I think they will get better. But come on..


Bowling Green?? Why would anybody be surprised that a team could RUN on the last ranked rush defense? No, It's not because of K-State.. They were dead last last year in run defense and continue you that trend this year. That offense was ranked 105 last year and the rushing offense was 117th!

Then they allowed an FCS team to run for 150 on them.


Seriously.... Why the concern?


This will be another game where we get out to a lead, play a ton of players for experience and depth and the score will look closer than it was.

I am worried about a STD out break.

[gravedigger]

There was no reason to be concerned about Kentucky last year either. I'm almost always a bit concerned. I don't have any doubt that we should be them, but you've got to play the game.

There was plenty of reason. Our qb didnt look very good against K State last year, but we all thought it was him being rusty. What we didnt know was that the team was still struggling learning the offense. We also chose to focus on the previous year's win rather than how good their defense was.

Kansas state is better than they were last year on offense. We are better than we were on offense. Our defense is worse. Their defense seems to be just as good or better.

I still think we are a much better team. I really dont have an expectation of the score, but I think we are 2 scores better. 10-14 points.

[msstate7]

There was plenty of reason. Our qb didnt look very good against K State last year, but we all thought it was him being rusty. What we didnt know was that the team was still struggling learning the offense. We also chose to focus on the previous year's win rather than how good their defense was.

Kansas state is better than they were last year on offense. We are better than we were on offense. Our defense is worse. Their defense seems to be just as good or better.

I still think we are a much better team. I really dont have an expectation of the score, but I think we are 2 scores better. 10-14 points.

Yet, pretty much everyone here picked a blow out with an 8-point spread

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?69613-Dawgs-vs-*****cats-Score-Prediction&highlight=Kentucky

[sleepy dawg]

There was plenty of reason. Our qb didnt look very good against K State last year, but we all thought it was him being rusty. What we didnt know was that the team was still struggling learning the offense. We also chose to focus on the previous year's win rather than how good their defense was.

Kansas state is better than they were last year on offense. We are better than we were on offense. Our defense is worse. Their defense seems to be just as good or better.

I still think we are a much better team. I really dont have an expectation of the score, but I think we are 2 scores better. 10-14 points.

It sure is easy to say what we know. You don't know what you don't though until after its over, just as in your example.

[confucius say]

Absolutely wrong. USM does count. We had a rotation and those guys improved from week 1 to week 2.

Wrong on the 4th quarter in 2 respects:

- The 4th does count. I never stated it didn't. I stated the game was over going into the 4th and they handled business up to that point.

- I also stated it was a massive learning experience for them. So yes it counts with that. They dominated the yards allowed until the 4th with the game in hand.

My original post was they would run for 175-200 IF autry doesn?t play. You engaged me on that and used the usm and ull games to support your position. I am saying USM doesn?t count bc we had autry, and the whole premise of my position is they will run on us IF no autry. Ergo, games where we had autry have nothing to do with my point that teams have run on us when autry doesn?t play.

In no way was the ull game over at any point in the 4th quarter until lawless?a FG with a minute left. If he misses that, they have 62 seconds to score to tie the game or go for two and win. They went up and down the field on our number 1 defense the entire fourth quarter.

[TrapGame]

My original post was they would run for 175-200 IF autry doesn?t play. You engaged me on that and used the usm and ull games to support your position. I am saying USM doesn?t count bc we had autry, and the whole premise of my position is they will run on us IF no autry. Ergo, games where we had autry have nothing to do with my point that teams have run on us when autry doesn?t play.

In no way was the ull game over at any point in the 4th quarter until lawless?a FG with a minute left. If he misses that, they have 62 seconds to score to tie the game or go for two and win. They went up and down the field on our number 1 defense the entire fourth quarter.

If our defense is on the same level as Nichols State's and Bowling Green's then we got MAJOR issues.

[dawgday166]

Yet, pretty much everyone here picked a blow out with an 8-point spread

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?69613-Dawgs-vs-*****cats-Score-Prediction&highlight=Kentucky

Before year began UK, FL, and LSU were locks as wins by most on this board.

[TrapGame]

Before year began UK, FL, and LSU were locks as wins by most on this board.

Yeah, silly us, we thought our starting QB could read a defense and hit the broad side of a barn.

[dawgday166]

Yeah, silly us, we thought our starting QB could read a defense and hit the broad side of a barn.

And at some point this year, there'll most likely be some other reason(s) we were silly to expect wins against certain foes. Happens most every year at MSU ... don't it??

While I'm not saying he will or won't be very good ... Tommy has yet to really face a stout pass rush or get nailed multiple times in a game. He's made good throws but all while standing on the balls of his feet to wide-open WRs, not while being flushed from the pocket to WRs covered like a blanket. We still don't know how our WRs will do against SEC DBs on 50/50 balls.

And last year, Fitz was getting nailed in UK & FL games cause no adjustments were made to block Allen for UK, and Kylin wouldn't block LBs. That can make a difference too.

[Bothrops]

Kansas State is the worst of the first 3 teams on our schedule.

This is hilarious.

[dantheman4248]

Before year began UK, FL, and LSU were locks as wins by most on this board.

No one thought we’d have that horrible of growing pains at QB/OC. Imagine the same 2017 Nick Fitz offense w/ our defensive performances and we win all 3 of those games. (The Kentucky game we gave up 14 late when we quit). Hiring Moorhead we’d thought no way we regress that badly.

[dawgday166]

No one thought we?d have that horrible of growing pains at QB/OC. Imagine the same 2017 Nick Fitz offense w/ our defensive performances and we win all 3 of those games. (The Kentucky game we gave up 14 late when we quit). Hiring Moorhead we?d thought no way we regress that badly.

I have ... many, many times.

I was one of those that thought with a senior laden offense (including a QB that led the SEC in Total O as a soph) and an offensive savant we'd be at least as good.

[confucius say]

If our defense is on the same level as Nichols State's and Bowling Green's then we got MAJOR issues.

Our defense is WAY better than those two, no question.

[dantheman4248]

I have ... many, many times.

I was one of those that thought with a senior laden offense (including a QB that led the SEC in Total O as a soph) and an offensive savant we'd be at least as good.

Yep. It became clear that he wasn’t rusty but rather had a clear lack of understanding of the offense. It’s what has me excited about Tommy. He is not out talenting people. He’s beating them at the chess game.

[dawgday166]

Yep. It became clear that he wasn?t rusty but rather had a clear lack of understanding of the offense. It?s what has me excited about Tommy. He is not out talenting people. He?s beating them at the chess game.

He may be playing chess with checker players tho. So I ain't quite that excited just yet.

[dantheman4248]

He may be playing chess with checker players tho. So I ain't quite that excited just yet.

It’s still a huge improvement over Nick who tried to play checkers with chess players. USM’s defense is no slouch either. That group will lead them to a CUSA title imo. I think the throwing threat will at least open up the passing game. A “non-chess” type QB like a Sam Ehlinger just put up a 400 yd game on LSU’s DBs. I also don’t think KSU or UK have the DBs / DC to force a tough chess match for Tommy. That first battle will come against Auburn.

[Ezsoil]

So far, we've faced 2 G5 teams, and we're giving up 5.91 yds/play (99th nationally). Keep in mind, usm was without their best wr and top 2 RBs. We have shown nothing so far to give me confidence in our defense

Dude, have you even noticed WHO was on the field when the majority of those yards were gained? We are talking third string guys in mop up time ...

[Todd4State]

It’s still a huge improvement over Nick who tried to play checkers with chess players. USM’s defense is no slouch either. That group will lead them to a CUSA title imo. I think the throwing threat will at least open up the passing game. A “non-chess” type QB like adam Ehlinger just put up a 400 yd game on LSU’s DBs. I also don’t think KSU or UK have the DBs / DC to force a tough chess match for Tommy. That first battle will come against Auburn.

I will be interested to see how ULL and USM fare the rest of the year. I think ULL is definitely one of the top three teams in the Sun Belt and better than USM. C-USA is kind of a mixed bag. USM could win it, so could UAB or La Tech. Whatever the case is I suspect that USM is one of the upper half teams in C-USA.

[dantheman4248]

I will be interested to see how ULL and USM fare the rest of the year. I think ULL is definitely one of the top three teams in the Sun Belt and better than USM. C-USA is kind of a mixed bag. USM could win it, so could UAB or La Tech. Whatever the case is I suspect that USM is one of the upper half teams in C-USA.

UAB and La Tech are both down this year a lot. They won’t compete for that title. North Texas / Rice are dark horse candidates but it should come down to USM or Marshall IMO.

I also think the Sun Belt has solidly passed CUSA. USM needs to swap over before they fall even further behind. (That money will flow to those SBC schools soon enough.)

[DancingRabbit]

I think ULL is a little better than USM. Different kind of QBs entirely. It would depend on matchups I guess if you were choosing which one you would rather play.

So far seems like everybody on our offense, coaches and players, look better prepared to start the season. Our line, backs and receivers look ready to help out the QB, whoever that is.

[confucius say]

Dude, have you even noticed WHO was on the field when the majority of those yards were gained? We are talking third string guys in mop up time ...

This is not true at all. We had our 1s in at DL against ull whole fourth quarter except when they were given a breather by our 2s. Had 1s at lb too. DBs rotated between 1s and 2s.

[RiverCityDawg]

Dude, have you even noticed WHO was on the field when the majority of those yards were gained? We are talking third string guys in mop up time ...

Completely false. ULL racked up about 200 yards on our defense in the 4th quarter alone with the starters all out there. Our D looked better (not great) against USM, but I think ULL is a better offense and run-focused like KSU will be. I still think we'll win tomorrow, but 35-31 wouldn't shock me in the least. We absolutely have to continue to force turnovers. We are average at best on the line and have one competent eligible linebacker and even he hasn't played great so far. This is going to be a battle.

[Coach007]

This is not true at all. We had our 1s in at DL against ull whole fourth quarter except when they were given a breather by our 2s. Had 1s at lb too. DBs rotated between 1s and 2s.

That's not true either.

-Jackson our DL starter
-Charles is not a DB starter

etc.

There were starters in the game then... but on the flip side of that, if the case is ALL OF the starters were in then explain how this horrible Defense only allowed 200 yards through 3 quarters plying these people:

Nate Watson LB
A Odom DE
K Charles- CB
A Brule- LB
C Duncan DB
Emerson CB
Dixon Cb
L Craft DB
A COnnor DB
J Jones CB
SH Lane- LB
S Timbs- DE
L Guidry- DB
F Peters- DB


SO all of those players and more were the ones responsible for only allowing the 200 yards through 3 quarters?

[RiverCityDawg]

That's not true either.

-Jackson our DL starter
-Charles is not a DB starter

etc.

There were starters in the game then... but on the flip side of that, if the case is ALL OF the starters were in then explain how this horrible Defense only allowed 200 yards through 3 quarters plying these people:

Nate Watson LB
A Odom DE
K Charles- CB
A Brule- LB
C Duncan DB
Emerson CB
Dixon Cb
L Craft DB
A COnnor DB
J Jones CB
SH Lane- LB
S Timbs- DE
L Guidry- DB
F Peters- DB


SO all of those players and more were the ones responsible for only allowing the 200 yards through 3 quarters?

1) Most of those guys played special teams with just a few defensive snaps mixed in. Watson, Brule, Kilby-Lane, Odom and whoever Timbs is have probably played about 12 defensive snaps combined.

2) Is a game only 3 quarters now?

[dawgday166]

It?s still a huge improvement over Nick who tried to play checkers with chess players. USM?s defense is no slouch either. That group will lead them to a CUSA title imo. I think the throwing threat will at least open up the passing game. A ?non-chess? type QB like a Sam Ehlinger just put up a 400 yd game on LSU?s DBs. I also don?t think KSU or UK have the DBs / DC to force a tough chess match for Tommy. That first battle will come against Auburn.

You right on USM ... they probably close to Bama on D *********

You can win a lot of games with a "non-chess" QB in CFB if you play to their strengths. If Mullen hadn't been busy job shopping (or Nick doesn't get hurt) he wins 10 with Nick in 2017 losing only to SECW, SEC, and National Champs (and almost/should've beat them). Also helps if when they do throw they have a little more that 1.5 secs to do it (which is about what Nick was getting in UK & FL games last year).

I'm not saying Tommy won't be better throwing the ball than Nick and he certainly looks smoother doing it but ... we haven't played anyone of any quality caliber yet. We scored 5 TDs against ULL and they gave us 4 TOs.

[Coach007]

You right on USM ... they probably close to Bama on D *********

You can win a lot of games with a "non-chess" QB in CFB if you play to their strengths. If Mullen hadn't been busy job shopping (or Nick doesn't get hurt) he wins 10 with Nick in 2017 losing only to SECW, SEC, and National Champs (and almost/should've beat them). Also helps if when they do throw they have a little more that 1.5 secs to do it (which is about what Nick was getting in UK & FL games last year).

I'm not saying Tommy won't be better throwing the ball than Nick and he certainly looks smoother doing it but ... we haven't played anyone of any quality caliber yet. We scored 5 TDs against ULL and they gave us 4 TOs.

Because our defense sucks so hard they didn't earn it **************



Am I doing this right?

[dawgday166]

Because our defense sucks so hard they didn't earn it **************



Am I doing this right?

You're getting close ******

I'm just saying I don't know if we're good or not yet. I don't know if Tommy is a real chess player or just a very good checkers player playing against really bad checkers players. Tua looks great himself with those WRs and when he goes to his first read every time. When he can't go to his first read and also is pressured, he struggles a good bit. Tua doesn't face that hardly at all, but I can assure you Tommy will to some degree.

Last year we destroyed the types of teams we just played and averaged 5.75 pts/game in our 4 SEC losses. That is beyond terrible. This year ... we may look average against the teams we're playing now and average say 17 to 20 in any losses we have. Don't know yet and will wait to see. And I won't take anyone on our schedule for granted going into the game either.

ETA: To add to last year. In our blowout wins I saw issues then and when I brought them up, everyone was just like they are now about our ho-hum wins. I also go back to TAM last year, which was Fitz' best game and coincidentally the only game I believe Aeris started and played the majority of time in. Fitz had more time to throw in that game than any of our losses, except maybe Iowa.

[PMDawg]

Our team is just easy to rip and pick apart this year for our fans. Before USM it was we better be careful, their D is stout, etc etc.. then we pretty much spanked their ass shorthanded. I think our defense has improved a little bit through 2 games, but yes we will give up some yards and points this weekend. But the fact of the matter is we aren't that bad of a team. Our offense is solid and on defense we have playmakers and seem to have a knack for creating turnovers. I realize Coach007 is non stop positivity but for some of our fans there's equally unwarranted nonstop negativity.

No, we are not a bad team, not at all. But for me, it's more this: we're 2 games in. We haven't played anyone better than mediocre yet, and we struggled some in both games. Granted, USM was a much better effort. We were thin in key positions, and we've had injuries and suspensions to deal with every week. Hard to get a good pulse yet. Also, granted it was against even worse competition, K-State has dominated so far. They have blown out (very) inferior competition. What can you learn from that? Not much. But so far, they have handled their business better than we have, and they aren't dealing with tons of injuries and suspensions. This game is going one of two ways - we blow them out, or they win outright. I can't see K-State covering without winning. Personally, I think we win by a comfortable margin. But I get it.

[tmcats]

game will be won on the line of scrimmage, either way, watch the A-gap performance on both sides of the ball.

[Ezsoil]

This is not true at all. We had our 1s in at DL against ull whole fourth quarter except when they were given a breather by our 2s. Had 1s at lb too. DBs rotated between 1s and 2s.

ULL didn't run between the tackles in the fourth quarter...and there were five different occasions that the DL was in the backfield chasing the QB...and if you take the time to actually WATCH who the players were on the field you will find that there were three different rotations of DL and DB's ..while there were starters on the field at all times, at no point in the fourth quarter were all of the starters on the field at one time .

[dantheman4248]

You right on USM ... they probably close to Bama on D *********

You can win a lot of games with a "non-chess" QB in CFB if you play to their strengths. If Mullen hadn't been busy job shopping (or Nick doesn't get hurt) he wins 10 with Nick in 2017 losing only to SECW, SEC, and National Champs (and almost/should've beat them). Also helps if when they do throw they have a little more that 1.5 secs to do it (which is about what Nick was getting in UK & FL games last year).

I'm not saying Tommy won't be better throwing the ball than Nick and he certainly looks smoother doing it but ... we haven't played anyone of any quality caliber yet. We scored 5 TDs against ULL and they gave us 4 TOs.

USM hasn’t given up over 30 points or 100 yds rushing to a guy in over a year (according to one of their fans I didn’t fact check). That and this has been hyped as one of their best defenses this century. Didn’t say they are Bama level. I said they are no slouch.

And Tommy doesn’t throw a better ball than Nick. He throws a smarter ball and makes better presnap reads. Nick has the inning ability to just out talent our G5 opponents. Tommy has basically used the games so far as live practice to hone his skills and get game timing right. You can clear as day seeing him make NFL caliber reads and then throwing to the wide open man. Looks simple but Moorhead’s O works if the driver can read.

Joe didn’t play to Nick’s strengths in any game except vs. Auburn. Nick also couldn’t read blitz pressure. As we’ve learned from Tommy the pressure reading is on the QB. Had Nick adjudged like the offense is supposed to be run then I think FL and UK would not have been able to disrupt the backfield so much. It wasn’t an oline issue so much as a presnap read issue. Yes Moorhead should have hard fixed it himself though, but he can’t adapt to a non intellectual QB.

[dawgday166]

USM hasn?t given up over 30 points or 100 yds rushing to a guy in over a year (according to one of their fans I didn?t fact check). That and this has been hyped as one of their best defenses this century. Didn?t say they are Bama level. I said they are no slouch.

And Tommy doesn?t throw a better ball than Nick. He throws a smarter ball and makes better presnap reads. Nick has the inning ability to just out talent our G5 opponents. Tommy has basically used the games so far as live practice to hone his skills and get game timing right. You can clear as day seeing him make NFL caliber reads and then throwing to the wide open man. Looks simple but Moorhead?s O works if the driver can read.

Joe didn?t play to Nick?s strengths in any game except vs. Auburn. Nick also couldn?t read blitz pressure. As we?ve learned from Tommy the pressure reading is on the QB. Had Nick adjudged like the offense is supposed to be run then I think FL and UK would not have been able to disrupt the backfield so much. It wasn?t an oline issue so much as a presnap read issue. Yes Moorhead should have hard fixed it himself though, but he can?t adapt to a non intellectual QB.

So now ULL & USM have NFL personnel and are disguising their defenses like NFL D coordinators do? Damn ... that Tommy, he da man. SMDH I can't see it clear as day cause he ain't playing NFL caliber talent or defensive coaching either. If he picks Saban's D apart, then I might start buying this a little more.

Last year some of those blitzes should've been picked up by Kylin and weren't. And Tommy has had 2 reads on blitzes he's totally missed and gotten nailed on. Easy pickups too. How many of Saban's blitzes do you think he might miss??

I watched FL game 3 times in slow mo ... Nick made 3 bad reads all day long and there was one bad route by D Thomas. Our offense was stopped by 3 things: Penalties, drops, missed blocks, and sacks. Nick actually didn't play bad in almost 3 qtrs of KY game or the FL game. Same thing stopped our offense as FL game. He was horrible against LSU & Bama tho, and as a passer against AU too..

[confucius say]

ULL didn't run between the tackles in the fourth quarter...and there were five different occasions that the DL was in the backfield chasing the QB...and if you take the time to actually WATCH who the players were on the field you will find that there were three different rotations of DL and DB's ..while there were starters on the field at all times, at no point in the fourth quarter were all of the starters on the field at one time .

Wha?? They absolutely ran the ball between the tackles in the fourth quarter. And we played 4 dt, Jones, Jackson, Lovett, and crumedy, and they all were winded and pushed around the fourth quarter.

[dantheman4248]

So now ULL & USM have NFL personnel and are disguising their defenses like NFL D coordinators do? Damn ... that Tommy, he da man. SMDH I can't see it clear as day cause he ain't playing NFL caliber talent or defensive coaching either. If he picks Saban's D apart, then I might start buying this a little more.

Last year some of those blitzes should've been picked up by Kylin and weren't. And Tommy has had 2 reads on blitzes he's totally missed and gotten nailed on. Easy pickups too. How many of Saban's blitzes do you think he might miss??

I watched FL game 3 times in slow mo ... Nick made 3 bad reads all day long and there was one bad route by D Thomas. Our offense was stopped by 3 things: Penalties, drops, missed blocks, and sacks. Nick actually didn't play bad in almost 3 qtrs of KY game or the FL game. Same thing stopped our offense as FL game. He was horrible against LSU & Bama tho, and as a passer against AU too..

How tf did you get that out of what I posted sheesh.

Nowhere did I say that they have NFL defenses. I said Tommy is making NFL caliber reads. He’s reading the defense at a level that will get him drafted.

Kylin has gotten better at blocking and it’s noticeable but yea guys don’t change year to year.

Tommy has missed 1 blitz in each game. I’ll take he misses 1 against Saban.

Bad reads post-snap =/= bad reads pre-snap. A run play that runs right into a bunch of people and gains hardly any yards is a bad presnap read by the QB in Moorhead’s offense. Moorhead’s O is designed to have either a good HB run, a good QB run, or a guy that will be open in the passing game within 3 seconds on each play. It’s up to the QB to diagnose the defense and dissect it correctly.

[dawgday166]

How tf did you get that out of what I posted sheesh.

Nowhere did I say that they have NFL defenses. I said Tommy is making NFL caliber reads. He?s reading the defense at a level that will get him drafted.

Kylin has gotten better at blocking and it?s noticeable but yea guys don?t change year to year.

Tommy has missed 1 blitz in each game. I?ll take he misses 1 against Saban.

Bad reads post-snap =/= bad reads pre-snap. A run play that runs right into a bunch of people and gains hardly any yards is a bad presnap read by the QB in Moorhead?s offense. Moorhead?s O is designed to have either a good HB run, a good QB run, or a guy that will be open in the passing game within 3 seconds on each play. It?s up to the QB to diagnose the defense and dissect it correctly.

No one, regardless of who they are, is making NFL caliber reads against ULL or USM. They ain't having to. Because ... they ain't facing NFL Ds. As I said before ... Tua looks lights out until he's under pressure and/or has to go to his 3rd or 4th option, which he almost never has to do. I don't think Tua is an NFL QB ... we'll see.

Later on in the year we'll know more on all of it. I actually do like Tommy's throws, touch, and accuracy better than Fitz'. I do think he throws it better and he probably reads it better too. But he's not setting the world on fire stats wise except in completion %, he might be a little fragile, and I'm still wondering about his pocket presence and peripheral vision because of those 2 blitzes he got nailed on. At the least he should've avoided receiving such a hard lick on those IMO.

In Dak's Jr season, I didn't think he was an NFL QB. In his Sr season, he was much better, could make more of the throws he couldn't make his Jr season, and I thought he might could be a middle-of-the-pack NFL QB. But the guy is just relentless so far at getting better and he's turning out pretty darn good.

[dantheman4248]

Tua is still an NFL caliber QB IMO. He has too much talent and still can read most defenses. He won’t come in and be a Tom Brady though. My point is he’s reading at a level that will put him in the NFL. No he’s not Peyton Manning level of reading. He’s relatively looking like a Peyton Manning for MSU though. (Again not actually Peyton or anywhere on that level. Just the PM of MSU.) This doesn’t mean he’d carve NFL defenses, simply that he’d look competent and could not clearly be a detriment with his pregame reading.

Agreed on Dak. Dak went from running back who could throw to quarterback who could run in the offseason between JR and SR year. I thought he would be a gadget QB then his SR happened and he showed he could be a starting QB eventually. I’m shocked it worked out right away but he has a good supporting cast. I expected it to happen around year 3 or 4 for him.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

I don't see it. I love their hire and I think they will get better. But come on..


Bowling Green?? Why would anybody be surprised that a team could RUN on the last ranked rush defense? No, It's not because of K-State.. They were dead last last year in run defense and continue you that trend this year. That offense was ranked 105 last year and the rushing offense was 117th!

Then they allowed an FCS team to run for 150 on them.


Seriously.... Why the concern?


This will be another game where we get out to a lead, play a ton of players for experience and depth and the score will look closer than it was.

B U M P!

[HoopsDawg]

I don't see it. I love their hire and I think they will get better. But come on..


Bowling Green?? Why would anybody be surprised that a team could RUN on the last ranked rush defense? No, It's not because of K-State.. They were dead last last year in run defense and continue you that trend this year. That offense was ranked 105 last year and the rushing offense was 117th!

Then they allowed an FCS team to run for 150 on them.


Seriously.... Why the concern?


This will be another game where we get out to a lead, play a ton of players for experience and depth and the score will look closer than it was.

this didn't age well.

[Coach007]

this didn't age well.

Aged fine. I have no problem with my posts.


We rushed for 200 and they only got 146 on the ground.

Players play the game. Guidry dropped passes, Zuber dropped a first down. We turned it over on fluke plays.


So yeah. I have zero problem pointing out the obvious. We lost allowing a team 123 in passing and 146 in rushing and a 100 yard run back on a kick off. So a total of 269 yards beat us.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Aged fine. I have no problem with my posts.


We rushed for 200 and they only got 146 on the ground.

Players play the game. Guidry dropped passes, Zuber dropped a first down. We turned it over on fluke plays.


So yeah. I have zero problem pointing out the obvious. We lost allowing a team 123 in passing and 146 in rushing and a 100 yard run back on a kick off. So a total of 269 yards beat us.

We lost, Gramps. We lost to an inferior opponent.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Aged fine. I have no problem with my posts.


We rushed for 200 and they only got 146 on the ground.

Players play the game. Guidry dropped passes, Zuber dropped a first down. We turned it over on fluke plays.


So yeah. I have zero problem pointing out the obvious. We lost allowing a team 123 in passing and 146 in rushing and a 100 yard run back on a kick off. So a total of 269 yards beat us.

We lost, Gramps. We lost to an inferior opponent.