Should Ole Miss Fans Boycott their Football Program?

[ShotgunDawg]

You may laugh, but I'm being serious.

Say you were an MSU fan & you were lied to by the administration over & over, have no current AD, no president, big boosters consistently get arrested, essentially no head coach, & a shitty team.

What would you do? Why would you support that university until things start going in the right direction?

If you're an average Ole Miss fan, other than just to support players, why would you go to the game on Saturday?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDaOpiTW4AEOEcn?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

1168607063456583682

[RocketDawg]

Who is this guy and why does he have a Twitter bluebird?

[BuckyIsAB****]

Its what happens when you let PC culture take over. They accepted their fate when they stuck with Luke after a broken ankle and 6 turnovers let them beat us

[Dawg2003]

What does Matt Luke have to do with PC culture?

[BuckyIsAB****]

What does Matt Luke have to do with PC culture?

PC culture is one of the biggest reasons they have an unhappy campus. Its one of the biggest reasons their donors are bailing. I guess I could have given a better transition to Luke

[Quaoarsking]

The fact that the Tweeter refers to Memphis as "Memphis State," a name they haven't gone by in over 25 years, makes me completely unsympathetic.

Is it supposed to be some kind of insult, like "haha Memphis is a ... PUBLIC (!) school!!!1" ? Or did the writer of that Tweet pay so little attention to college football over the last 3 decades that he just made a mistake?

[starkvegasdawg]

I boycotted the whole institution decades ago.

[BeardoMSU]

PC culture is one of the biggest reasons they have an unhappy campus.

So, OM is an embarrassment because of their attachment to the confederacy, or because they've done some things to distance themselves from it? Which is it?

[BeardoMSU]

The fact that the Tweeter refers to Memphis as "Memphis State," a name they haven't gone by in over 25 years, makes me completely unsympathetic.

Is it supposed to be some kind of insult, like "haha Memphis is a ... PUBLIC (!) school!!!1" ? Or did the writer of that Tweet pay so little attention to college football over the last 3 decades that he just made a mistake?

Good point. I've seen numerous OM douches refer to us as "State College" before.

[Coursesuper]

I for one don't care what they do, they shat the bed by themselves all while being led by a small group of men that control every facet of the athletic department. I just pray that we don't go down that same road.

[FriarsPoint]

So, OM is an embarrassment because of their attachment to the confederacy, or because they've done some things to distance themselves from it? Which is it?

They should either 1) wrap themselves in it and give the rest of the world the finger or 2) cut it off completely. Right now they’re straddling the fence.

[BeardoMSU]

Right now they’re straddling the fence.

I totally agree with this statement, but I fail to see the benefit for your first option....that shit would reflect poorly on the whole state, not just OM.

[Dawg2003]

PC culture is one of the biggest reasons they have an unhappy campus. Its one of the biggest reasons their donors are bailing. I guess I could have given a better transition to Luke

I see. They definitely resent anyone trying to change their symbology, but, at the same time, they need to distance themselves from the Confederate imagery. It's not really a good look to have "Rebels" across their uniforms in 2019. I just thank my lucky stars that isn't us because they have a lot of problems that aren't going away.

[Dawg2003]

They should either 1) wrap themselves in it and give the rest of the world the finger or 2) cut it off completely. Right now they’re straddling the fence.


I'm surprised more attention hasn't been drawn to it. Their big problem is that the Confederate imagery is woven into their identity. What is their identity independent of that? They have a mess on their hands.

[Gutter Cobreh]

And yet Bjork rides off to A&M, leaving the athletic dept in shambles. Wonder if he'll do the same in College Station?

[Dawgbite]

Ole Miss fans should boycott reproduction.

[ShotgunDawg]

And yet Bjork rides off to A&M, leaving the athletic dept in shambles. Wonder if he'll do the same in College Station?

What's wild is that someone thought he was doing a good enough job that he could handle a bigger athletic program.

I'm terribly confused by athletic director hirings. Either the reality of Bjork wasn't what the perception was or he had naked pictures of the A&M chancellor.

It's just confusing to me. Would be like a football coach going 2-10 & getting a promotion

[thf24]

What's wild is that someone thought he was doing a good enough job that he could handle a bigger athletic program.

I'm terribly confused by athletic director hirings. Either the reality of Bjork wasn't what the perception was or he had naked pictures of the A&M chancellor.

It's just confusing to me. Would be like a football coach going 2-10 & getting a promotion

I think the selling point for A&M is that he's a reliable yes man.

[parabrave]

I think the selling point for A&M is that he's a reliable yes man.

Bingo.

[Todd4State]

I don't feel sorry for Ole Miss one iota.

Everything that is happening to them now they brought onto themselves- and basically what it comes down to is they cut corners because they couldn't stand the fact that we were good in football and they weren't. So they went out and hired a shyster of a coach and blatantly paid off 4-5 star recruits left and right and then had the gall to tell everyone that those players were coming to Ole Miss because the campus is pretty and Freeze is a good Christian. And then after they get caught and Freeze goes down as a fraud- insert your own joke there with that softball I just lobbed up to the plate- they have the gall to blame it all on us after Georgia, Alabama, and whoever else turned them in and decide to thug out in the Egg Bowl in 2017 intentionally hurting our QB and then have one of their fan boy writers say in an article that "MSU probably got what they deserved". Only to get pissed off because we plant our flag on their 50 yard line- which honestly I completely glossed over when they did it because it didn't even crack my top ten list of thuggish things that they did in the 2017 Egg Bowl. Personally, I was more than satisfied with Abram bitch slapping AJ and then the TD being called back but I digress. And then only after all of that does that idiot Greg Sankey decide for some reason that all of a sudden he needs to step in because he's "embarrassed". (Hey- Greg maybe if you cut Ole Miss off in 2015 like you should have it wouldn't have gotten to this point) And honestly- he's lucky we didn't do worse considering what all went down in 2017 and would have been justified- but we just decided to kick their ass and take the trophy home anyway, plant the flag in Oxford and bitch slap AJ.

Now with Luke- I'm not sure that they had a choice because no one was taking that job with probation coming their way. Which again goes back to them trying to cut corners. And with no AD who knows what will happen? Them hiring two former college head coaches as coordinators is only going to make things more dare I say toxic in their locker room because I'm 100% sure Rodriguez and MacIntyre are trying to line up their supporters as we speak.

It probably won't happen- but I hope they go 0-12 this year. One game closer though!

[Ari Gold]

It’s a Cult there.

[Dolphus Raymond]

If they lose to Arkansas Saturday, someone will take the bull by the horns and fire Luke.

[Todd4State]

Now if I was an Ole Miss fan- I would be highly pissed off that the administration basically cut corners and got the program on massive probation and lied about everything the whole way causing things to drag out. And I'm sure a lot of their fans feel that way. And they can be like "Yeah- but 2015 was fun"- but it's also highly tainted.

But again- I think part of their problem is their fans blame MSU or someone else rather than looking at themselves in the mirror and fix things. Part of it is the BS that Ole Miss feeds them- it's the NCAA, it's Leo Lewis, it's Steve Robertson....when the reality is it's their major boosters who have zero interest in building a program the right way because they have been taught their whole lives going back to the Vaught era that everyone cheats to the extreme and then they glamorize the cheating. It's always everyone else's fault except the guys running the program essentially.

MSU- after we got our ass kicked in 2008. We fired Croom, hired the best coach we could and started laying a sound foundation. And yeah- I complain about us not reaching our ceiling but I'll take 10 bowl seasons and talking about how what we have to do to fill the couple of holes on our team as opposed to talking about how long the complete rebuild is going to be and how we're going to recover from probation.

And look at how we handled the NCAA compared to them. Given a choice- I would much rather be upset at Brackey over suspending players rather than do everything that Ole Miss did during their investigation. At least MSU fans have the wherewithal to admit that we did something wrong instead of blaming everyone else but MSU and the players.

[MaroonFlounder]

and then have one of their fan boy writers say in an article that "MSU probably got what they deserved".

Which one said that?

Chuck, Yancy, Neal, DJ, Ben, or Chase? Or someone else?

[BeardoMSU]

Which one said that?

Chuck, Yancy, Neal, DJ, Ben, or Chase? Or someone else?

Not. A. Fan.

[TrapGame]

If they lose to Arkansas Saturday, someone will take the bull by the horns and fire Luke.

Rich Rod took this job for the chance to become HC. If RR is named interim coach after this Saturday watch that offense all of sudden become improved.

[Todd4State]

Which one said that?

Chuck, Yancy, Neal, DJ, Ben, or Chase? Or someone else?

Neal.

[BuckyIsAB****]

So, OM is an embarrassment because of their attachment to the confederacy, or because they've done some things to distance themselves from it? Which is it?

Attachment to the Confederacy has nothing to do with everything on campus being pushed to the left

[BuckyIsAB****]

I see. They definitely resent anyone trying to change their symbology, but, at the same time, they need to distance themselves from the Confederate imagery. It's not really a good look to have "Rebels" across their uniforms in 2019. I just thank my lucky stars that isn't us because they have a lot of problems that aren't going away.

I promise you that the name Rebels is no big deal. I just find it funny that the only people who care about this kind of thing arent the kids who are playing. They could care less.

If it was as big of a deal as yall make it they would sign no black kids ever. Maybe yall are stirring the pot when nothing is there

[BeardoMSU]

Attachment to the Confederacy has nothing to do with everything on campus being pushed to the left

The Old South cult of OM and the town of Oxford is the antithesis of "left" and/or "PC culture". I'm sure you can post examples of some rando professor at OM saying something stupid, but you can literally do that with every single college in America. OM's culture continually brings negative attention to MS.

Btw...MSU, and Starkville by association, are far more "progressive" than Oxford/OM....and by progressive, I don't mean liberal vs conservative, I mean not stuck in the rut of 1861. A rut they refuse to fully climb out of, because if they do, they'll piss off the old-money knuckle-draggers who pay the bills at that shit hole institution.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The Old South cult of OM and the town of Oxford is the antithesis of "left" and/or "PC culture". I'm sure you can post examples of some rando professor at OM saying something stupid, but you can literally do that with every single college in America. OM's culture continually brings negative attention to MS.

Btw...MSU, and Starkville by association, are far more "progressive" than Oxford/OM....and by progressive, I don't mean liberal vs conservative, I mean not stuck in the rut of 1861. A rut they refuse to fully climb out of, because if they do, they'll piss off the old-money knuckle-draggers who pay the bills at that shit hole institution.

Ask any OM student or alum of recent years and they will tell you that the school is going far left. When you dont let your student section wave a state flag when they pay you, a state institution tuition on top of them buying their tickets to the game, people are going to get pissed off.

Im not taking up for OM, I hate OM with every fiber of my being and love to see them fail but we need to keep it rational and lets make sure we dont follow down the same path

[KOdawg1]

OMs biggest problem is that they care about their perception more than actually working hard to achieve what they want to achieve. They wanted a quick fix in 2013. They wanted the headline of a national recruiter. They LOOKED good in the media. But that came back to bite them in the ass. They breed a culture of self-entitled pussies who dont know how to persevere or work for anything. Just look at their QB. It looks like he had a makeup artist do his eye black. He looks completely lost on the field, but man his battle paint looks good.*

There is a reason they get such a thrill from flipping one of our recruits. Its a headline. They live for it. And until they get their priorities in the correct order, they will continue to be a laughing stock in the SEC.

[BuckyIsAB****]

OMs biggest problem is that they care about their perception more than actually working hard to achieve what they want to achieve. They wanted a quick fix in 2013. They wanted the headline of a national recruiter. They LOOKED good in the media. But that came back to bite them in the ass. They breed a culture of self-entitled pussies who dont know how to persevere or work for anything. Just look at their QB. It looks like he had a makeup artist do his eye black. He looks completely lost on the field, but man his battle paint looks good.*

There is a reason they get such a thrill from flipping one of our recruits. Its a headline. They live for it. And until they get their priorities in the correct order, they will continue to be a laughing stock in the SEC.

Correct. They are bred with an undeserved sense of superiority

[BeardoMSU]

Ask any OM student or alum of recent years and they will tell you that the school is going far left. When you dont let your student section wave a state flag when they pay you, a state institution tuition on top of them buying their tickets to the game, people are going to get pissed off.

Im not taking up for OM, I hate OM with every fiber of my being and love to see them fail but we need to keep it rational and lets make sure we dont follow down the same path

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e753757e529fad6f95c1da307a7c429984ec7566/c=63-0-1925-1400/local/-/media/2015/06/23/USATODAY/USATODAY/635706677214511928-AP-OLE-MISS-FLAG.jpg?width=540&height=405&fit=crop

Well, these aren't state of MS flags....and the only reason the group of frat douches attempted to wave a state flag...

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/816f86f19df76d4efd059d3b2a459c58a4276deb/c=0-111-2000-1241/local/-/media/2016/10/07/JacksonMS/JacksonMS/636114646219447989-MSOXF101.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

was not out of pride in being born and raised in MS....most of those mooks are out of state. Their intentions aren't a mystery, dude.

Then you bring in their chants during Dixie, and it's even more clear.

And as far as the same happening to us, that just isn't an issue. Our culture isn't tied to hip of Confederate hero worship or lost-cause imagery; theirs is.

[BuckyIsAB****]

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e753757e529fad6f95c1da307a7c429984ec7566/c=63-0-1925-1400/local/-/media/2015/06/23/USATODAY/USATODAY/635706677214511928-AP-OLE-MISS-FLAG.jpg?width=540&height=405&fit=crop

Well, these aren't state of MS flags....and the only reason the group of frat douches attempted to wave a state flag...

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/816f86f19df76d4efd059d3b2a459c58a4276deb/c=0-111-2000-1241/local/-/media/2016/10/07/JacksonMS/JacksonMS/636114646219447989-MSOXF101.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

was not out of pride in being born and raised in MS....most of those mooks are out of state. Their intentions aren't a mystery, dude.

Then you bring in their chants during Dixie, and it's even more clear.

And as far as the same happening to us, that just isn't an issue. Our culture isn't tied to hip of Confederate hero worship or lost-cause imagery; theirs is.

If you tell someone they cant do something, especially while you are taking their money dont be surprised if they get mad

[BeardoMSU]

Ask any OM student or alum of recent years and they will tell you that the school is going far left.

Also, I'm sure the great great grandpappies of those same OM students and alums thought the country was going "far left" when President Lincoln told them they couldn't keep their "tradishuns" anymore.

And if there are OM peeps that feel that way, as you say, they're just keeping up the most timeless of all OM traditions: acting like a ****ing baby and calling themselves victims when they're really the ones shitting the bed.

[BeardoMSU]

If you tell someone they cant do something, especially while you are taking their money dont be surprised if they get mad

OK....

AND?????

That doesn't mean the person telling you to not act like a moron is some crazy leftist.

[Todd4State]

OMs biggest problem is that they care about their perception more than actually working hard to achieve what they want to achieve. They wanted a quick fix in 2013. They wanted the headline of a national recruiter. They LOOKED good in the media. But that came back to bite them in the ass. They breed a culture of self-entitled pussies who dont know how to persevere or work for anything. Just look at their QB. It looks like he had a makeup artist do his eye black. He looks completely lost on the field, but man his battle paint looks good.*

There is a reason they get such a thrill from flipping one of our recruits. Its a headline. They live for it. And until they get their priorities in the correct order, they will continue to be a laughing stock in the SEC.

You're absolutely 100% correct.

[bobtail bob]

If I was an Ole Miss fan I probably supported buying whores for their recruits so I really wouldn't give a shit. As long as the bourbon kept flowing

[BeardoMSU]

As long as the Michelob Ultra kept flowing

FIFY**

[BuckyIsAB****]

Also, I'm sure the great great grandpappies of those same OM students and alums thought the country was going "far left" when President Lincoln told them they couldn't keep their "tradishuns" anymore.

And if there are OM peeps that feel that way, as you say, they're just keeping up the most timeless of all OM traditions: acting like a ****ing baby and calling themselves victims when they're really the ones shitting the bed.

To prevent a 5 page argument about OM I will leave it. I think there are some who love to make trouble where there is none.

[BuckyIsAB****]

OK....

AND?????

That doesn't mean the person telling you to not act like a moron is some crazy leftist.

Its almost like you have a support for the left or something. To each his own. Im not making it political Im just saying that the students and the alums have gotten more and more disgruntled since the school became more PC.

Im not defending those kids taking a picture at the Emmit Till sign either so dont try to spin it like that. Im just stating the facts. Trying to push your agenda onto a group of others usually doesnt work out without some conflict

[QuadrupleOption]

And yet Bjork rides off to A&M, leaving the athletic dept in shambles. Wonder if he'll do the same in College Station?

Hell he did the same thing at whatever directional Kentucky school he was AD over before he left them for Ole Miss.

So, signs point to "yes". That dude wouldn't know what Institutional Control looked like if it gave him a signed picture of itself.

[BeardoMSU]

Its almost like you have a support for the left or something. To each his own. Im not making it political Im just saying that the students and the alums have gotten more and more disgruntled since the school became more PC.

Im not defending those kids taking a picture at the Emmit Till sign either so dont try to spin it like that. Im just stating the facts. Trying to push your agenda onto a group of others usually doesnt work out without some conflict

If thinking that waving rebel flags, plantation owner mascots, and chanting "the south will rise again" at a public university sporting event is dumb as hell, and is somehow "support for the left", then call me Mao Zedong.*

[Maroonthirteen]

If thinking that waving rebel flags, plantation owner mascots, and chanting "the south will rise again" at a public university sporting event is dumb as hell, and is somehow "support for the left", then call me Mao Zedong.*

Name the last OM game or campus event that you attended and
Personally witnessed any of those things.

[timotheus]

I saw numerous colonel rebel mascots as well as rebel flags in the grove last year as well as dixie being played but those folks didn't look like lefties to me.

[Dolphus Raymond]

If thinking that waving rebel flags, plantation owner mascots, and chanting "the south will rise again" at a public university sporting event is dumb as hell, and is somehow "support for the left", then call me Mao Zedong.*
Leon Trotsky **

[Dawg2003]

There is difference in being PC and wanting to get rid of Confederate imagery. Boycotting Chick-fil-A is PC. Getting rid of Confederate imagery is removing symbology from your campus that glorifies a time when you could own another human being.

[Dawg2003]

Ask any OM student or alum of recent years and they will tell you that the school is going far left. When you dont let your student section wave a state flag when they pay you, a state institution tuition on top of them buying their tickets to the game, people are going to get pissed off.

None of the universities in the state fly the state flag, so it's not surprising they wouldn't allow it to be waved at football
games. Especially with Ole Miss' history.

[timotheus]

The only flag they will wave this year will be the white flag....

[codeDawg]

PC culture is one of the biggest reasons they have an unhappy campus. Its one of the biggest reasons their donors are bailing. I guess I could have given a better transition to Luke

So you think they would be a happier bunch if they continued to embrace and celebrate their racist history?

[NWADAWG]

They should either 1) wrap themselves in it and give the rest of the world the finger or 2) cut it off completely. Right now they?re straddling the fence.

They should keep doing exactly what they've been doing. It's who they are. And we should enjoy peeking that direction now and again to see the dumpster fire burn.

[Pollodawg]

Also, I'm sure the great great grandpappies of those same OM students and alums thought the country was going "far left" when President Lincoln told them they couldn't keep their "tradishuns" anymore.

And if there are OM peeps that feel that way, as you say, they're just keeping up the most timeless of all OM traditions: acting like a ****ing baby and calling themselves victims when they're really the ones shitting the bed.

Just FYI, this is wildly inaccurate. Lincoln never told the South they couldn?t keep their slaves. He, in fact said the opposite on more than one occasion, that he had ?no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with slavery where it already existed.?
What he wanted to do was insure that slavery as an institution couldn?t migrate into the land we basically stole from Mexico, thus, putting it on the road to ultimate extinction at some point in the future, kicking the can down the road yet again just like the Founders had done.

The South left the Union to protect slavery. The irony is that they doomed it far
more than Lincoln ever could through normal legislative processes.

[Liverpooldawg]

Just FYI, this is wildly inaccurate. Lincoln never told the South they couldn?t keep their slaves. He, in fact said the opposite on more than one occasion, that he had ?no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with slavery where it already existed.?
What he wanted to do was insure that slavery as an institution couldn?t migrate into the land we basically stole from Mexico, thus, putting it on the road to ultimate extinction at some point in the future, kicking the can down the road yet again just like the Founders had done.

The South left the Union to protect slavery. The irony is that they doomed it far
more than Lincoln ever could through normal legislative processes.

Actually Lincoln DID eventually tell the south that. Your statement is wildly inaccurate. His public position evolved during the war.

[msu15]

Man Shotgun you really stirred it up here.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Actually Lincoln DID eventually tell the south that. Your statement is wildly inaccurate. His public position evolved during the war.

Of course, because once the war to keep the union together started he had to come up with some reason to get support for it beyond "If we let the South leave, Washington will loose some tax money from tariffs". Lincoln saying they were waging a moral war to free slaves certainly got more volunteers than just the money angle would have. Let's not forget that Lincoln would have let slavery exist for his entire term were it not for succession

Before the war Lincoln was very clear that the South could keep their slaves. After the South succeeded he started saying the war was about freeing slaves... which was the lie? Was his priority always to wage a war to free slaves, or was the priority to keep the union together? I think it's clear from the timeline that slavery was a secondary concern. Either way he was clearly a very screwed political player and I'm nor sure we can say his positions actually "evolved" vs he flip flopped publicly as it became politically beneficial

For the record I like Lincoln and am glad the war happened, even if it only freed the slaves 10 years faster than the free markets would have it was worth it

[BrunswickDawg]

Of course, because once the war to keep the union together started he had to come up with some reason to get support for it beyond "If we let the South leave, Washington will loose some tax money from tariffs". Lincoln saying they were waging a moral war to free slaves certainly got more volunteers than just the money angle would have. Let's not forget that Lincoln would have let slavery exist for his entire term were it not for succession

Before the war Lincoln was very clear that the South could keep their slaves. After the South succeeded he started saying the war was about freeing slaves... which was the lie? Was his priority always to wage a war to free slaves, or was the priority to keep the union together? I think it's clear from the timeline that slavery was a secondary concern. Either way he was clearly a very screwed political player and I'm nor sure we can say his positions actually "evolved" vs he flip flopped publicly as it became politically beneficial

For the record I like Lincoln and am glad the war happened, even if it only freed the slaves 10 years faster than the free markets would have it was worth it

The one thing this leaves out is that the political will of the country was pushing us toward emancipation - which is why the southern states felt threatened enough to secede. Lincoln was rightly focused on trying to preserve the Union and avoid war - to him everything was about that singular goal. Even if he had stopped the secession threat, the political and legislative debate that had been going on for over 50 years by that point was going to come to a head one way or another.

[Pollodawg]

The one thing this leaves out is that the political will of the country was pushing us toward emancipation - which is why the southern states felt threatened enough to secede. Lincoln was rightly focused on trying to preserve the Union and avoid war - to him everything was about that singular goal. Even if he had stopped the secession threat, the political and legislative debate that had been going on for over 50 years by that point was going to come to a head one way or another.


The correct answer.

[KentuckyDawg13]

We should boycott all discussion of their terrible existence. *

[BeardoMSU]

The one thing this leaves out is that the political will of the country was pushing us toward emancipation - which is why the southern states felt threatened enough to secede. Lincoln was rightly focused on trying to preserve the Union and avoid war - to him everything was about that singular goal. Even if he had stopped the secession threat, the political and legislative debate that had been going on for over 50 years by that point was going to come to a head one way or another.

Well said.

[Pollodawg]

Actually Lincoln DID eventually tell the south that. Your statement is wildly inaccurate. His public position evolved during the war.


Little boy, my entire academic study was the first 4 decades before the war including the war itself. I am well aware that Lincoln changed his position on emancipation during the war. He was also one of our most forward thinking, greatest presidents of all time. In fact, his changing attitudes toward slavery eventually forced border state cabinet members like the Blairs of Maryland away from supporting him later and almost alienated the so-called “Butternut” regions of the lower
Midwest.

In fact, had the South returned to the Union peaceably prior to January, 1863, they could’ve retained their rights of property. I’m not throwing shade at Lincoln at all. I think we should have long ago jettisoned any connection this state has with the old confederacy beyond those houses in Natchez that yankees may top dollar to come and see.

Confederate memorials are the original participation trophy.

[Pollodawg]

In fact, it was Seward who asked Lincoln to hold off on the Emancipation Declaration until the North could log an unquestioned victory, lest it should sound like a “last shriek on the retreat.” This, Lincoln did until after Antietam, where Mcalellan finally proved he wasn’t entirely worthless and halted the Southern invasion into Maryland.

[Pollodawg]

The free market would NOT have freed the slaves. The agrarian nabobs of that time we’re capitalists through and through. They reaped immense profits from slavery and would have continued indefinitely if not for the war.

[ShotgunDawg]

The free market would NOT have freed the slaves. The agrarian nabobs of that time we’re capitalists through and through. They reaped immense profits from slavery and would have continued indefinitely if not for the war.

HOOOLEEE SHITE!!!

We started with Ole Miss fans boycotting their football team & by post 63, this is where we are. A true masterpiece here.

[TrapGame]

HOOOLEEE SHITE!!!

We started with Ole Miss fans boycotting their football team & by post 63, this is where we are. A true masterpiece here.

I'm here auditing the class.**

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm here auditing the class.**

Agrarian Nabobs*

[Pollodawg]

HOOOLEEE SHITE!!!

We started with Ole Miss fans boycotting their football team & by post 63, this is where we are. A true masterpiece here.
I didn’t start the fire. I only added fuel.

[Pollodawg]

Invest in a dictionary. ��

[Pollodawg]

Would you have felt better if I’d said “cotton” or “rice” grandee?

[Dawg2003]

This has been an informative thread.

[Pollodawg]

It also amazes me that the same people who hate Kapernick for kneeling demand we keep memorials to actual Southern treason.


Enjoy that one.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm here auditing the class.**

Haha! Rep given!

[BrunswickDawg]

Would you have felt better if I?d said ?cotton? or ?rice? grandee?

Ignore the nattering nabobs of negativity Pollo.

[TrapGame]

Hey Pollo,

Are you familiar with Lincoln scholar David Herbert Donald. He was from my wife's family. Professor emeritus at Harvard who wrote several books on Lincoln and the Civil War. I had the honor of speaking with him before he passed away a few years ago. Still sharp as a tack in his mid 80s. He'd forgotten more about Lincoln than most would ever know.

[gravedigger]

You may laugh, but I'm being serious.

Say you were an MSU fan & you were lied to by the administration over & over, have no current AD, no president, big boosters consistently get arrested, essentially no head coach, & a shitty team.

What would you do? Why would you support that university until things start going in the right direction?

If you're an average Ole Miss fan, other than just to support players, why would you go to the game on Saturday?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDaOpiTW4AEOEcn?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

1168607063456583682

There is some serious Karma happening with them.

[TrapGame]

There is some serious Karma happening with them.

Yep, all they need to do is look in the mirror. This is on them.

[Jarius]

The free market would NOT have freed the slaves. The agrarian nabobs of that time we’re capitalists through and through. They reaped immense profits from slavery and would have continued indefinitely if not for the war.

Agrarian nabobs sounds like the coolest thing ever posted on a sports message board. I had to google the meaning as I assumed you were just hurling a random insult at someone. Lol.

[Pollodawg]

Hey Pollo,

Are you familiar with Lincoln scholar David Herbert Donald. He was from my wife's family. Professor emeritus at Harvard who wrote several books on Lincoln and the Civil War. I had the honor of speaking with him before he passed away a few years ago. Still sharp as a tack in his mid 80s. He'd forgotten more about Lincoln than most would ever know.

I’ve heard of him. Mostly I’m a James McPherson, Adrian Gelzo (so?), Doris Goodwin, William C. Davis, Bud Robertson, There’s another guys named Gallagher I like. But, yeah, I’m a legit history nerd. Lol Brunswick Dog is a bona fide historian if I remember correctly. I never made it beyond undergrad history major. lol

[Liverpooldawg]

Little boy, my entire academic study was the first 4 decades before the war including the war itself. I am well aware that Lincoln changed his position on emancipation during the war. He was also one of our most forward thinking, greatest presidents of all time. In fact, his changing attitudes toward slavery eventually forced border state cabinet members like the Blairs of Maryland away from supporting him later and almost alienated the so-called “Butternut” regions of the lower
Midwest.

In fact, had the South returned to the Union peaceably prior to January, 1863, they could’ve retained their rights of property. I’m not throwing shade at Lincoln at all. I think we should have long ago jettisoned any connection this state has with the old confederacy beyond those houses in Natchez that yankees may top dollar to come and see.

Confederate memorials are the original participation trophy.

I've studied it quite extensively my self over my 55 years. You seemed to be espousing one of the worst of the Lost Cause myths. You are still bordering on it. Once the war started slavery was going to end unless the South won it.

I'm neither here nor there on the Confederate Memorials. I actually understand both sides of that argument. It's always been interesting to me that they were allowed in the first place. While down through history you occasionally do see memorials to the losing side in a war, you almost never see them to ultimately unsuccessful rebels. It only makes sense if you study the context of the time when most of them were built. The spirit of reconciliation was very high amongst the old veterans on both sides during the two decades on either side of 1900. That's when the vast majority of them were built. That carried over to the white population in general.

[Pollodawg]

I've studied it quite extensively my self over my 55 years. You seemed to be espousing one of the worst of the Lost Cause myths. You are still bordering on it. Once the war started slavery was going to end unless the South won it.

I'm neither here nor there on the Confederate Memorials. I actually understand both sides of that argument. It's always been interesting to me that they were allowed in the first place. While down through history you occasionally do see memorials to the losing side in a war, you almost never see them to ultimately unsuccessful rebels. It only makes sense if you study the context of the time when most of them were built. The spirit of reconciliation was very high amongst the old veterans on both sides during the two decades on either side of 1900. That's when the vast majority of them were built. That carried over to the white population in general.
Actually, I’m espousing the opposite of “Lost Cause” mythology.

[Political Hack]

I've always thought Ole Miss football should boycott their fans.

[Liverpooldawg]

Actually, I?m espousing the opposite of ?Lost Cause? mythology.

Saying Lincoln didn't want to free the slaves is one of the core Lost Cause myths. You did say that.

[Pollodawg]

Actually, I?m espousing the opposite of ?Lost Cause? mythology.


Saying Lincoln didn't want to free the slaves is one of the core Lost Cause myths. You did say that.

No, I didn?t. I said Lincoln gave the South every chance to compromise, and we didn?t. I said Lincoln didn?t threaten the South with forced emancipation until he had no other choice. None of these things are innacurrate. Lincoln hated slavery, but he wasn?t ready to forcibly emancipate slaves in 1860. He simply wasn?t. That isn?t mythology. That?s fact. He DID reassure the South numerous times that he wouldn?t interfere with slavery in the states where it already existed if the South didn?t do anything stupid, which it did. Lincoln offered the olive branch. The South drew the sword. And we payed.

I never once said or implied that Lincoln didn?t want to free the slaves. He DID want to, but was constitutionally bound to respect the rights of slave owners to their ?property.? The fact of the matter is that he had no RIGHT to end slavery where it already was legally, no matter how badly he may have wanted to until the South gave him a reason......I?m sorry you can?t read, I guess.

[Johnson85]

Saying Lincoln didn't want to free the slaves is one of the core Lost Cause myths. You did say that.

Not a history nerd so I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I had not heard that this might be faked:

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

[R2Dawg]

What's wild is that someone thought he was doing a good enough job that he could handle a bigger athletic program.

I'm terribly confused by athletic director hirings. Either the reality of Bjork wasn't what the perception was or he had naked pictures of the A&M chancellor.

It's just confusing to me. Would be like a football coach going 2-10 & getting a promotion

To me it says TAMU is all in on doing whatever it takes to win big. The best example of that was Bjork at Olemiss. Put him with Fisher and you got "the process" now to get it done and we all know TAMU has the money.

[Johnson85]

The free market would NOT have freed the slaves. The agrarian nabobs of that time we?re capitalists through and through. They reaped immense profits from slavery and would have continued indefinitely if not for the war.

A free market by definition does not have slaves.

[Liverpooldawg]

Not a history nerd so I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I had not heard that this might be faked:

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

Yes, and then he issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

[BrunswickDawg]

I’ve heard of him. Mostly I’m a James McPherson, Adrian Gelzo (so?), Doris Goodwin, William C. Davis, Bud Robertson, There’s another guys named Gallagher I like. But, yeah, I’m a legit history nerd. Lol Brunswick Dog is a bona fide historian if I remember correctly. I never made it beyond undergrad history major. lol

Pollo - if you survived Historiography and Historical Methods at MSU, you can call yourself a historian.

[Liverpooldawg]

No, I didn?t. I said Lincoln gave the South every chance to compromise, and we didn?t. I said Lincoln didn?t threaten the South with forced emancipation until he had no other choice. None of these things are innacurrate. Lincoln hated slavery, but he wasn?t ready to forcibly emancipate slaves in 1860. He simply wasn?t. That isn?t mythology. That?s fact. He DID reassure the South numerous times that he wouldn?t interfere with slavery in the states where it already existed if the South didn?t do anything stupid, which it did. Lincoln offered the olive branch. The South drew the sword. And we payed.

I never once said or implied that Lincoln didn?t want to free the slaves. He DID want to, but was constitutionally bound to respect the rights of slave owners to their ?property.? The fact of the matter is that he had no RIGHT to end slavery where it already was legally, no matter how badly he may have wanted to until the South gave him a reason......I?m sorry you can?t read, I guess.

"Just FYI, this is wildly inaccurate. Lincoln never told the South they couldn?t keep their slaves. He, in fact said the opposite on more than one occasion, that he had ?no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with slavery where it already existed.?"

That is pure Lost Cause. In fact Lincoln DID eventually tell the South they couldn't keep their slaves.

[Commercecomet24]

I've always thought Ole Miss football should boycott their fans.

Rep Given!

[Johnson85]

Yes, and then he issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

Which didn't free the slaves in states that didn't secede.

[BrunswickDawg]

Which didn't free the slaves in states that didn't secede.

Well, there is that....

[Dawgbite]

The Civil War and Lincoln ended slavery in name only. Share cropping replaced slavery but wasn't a lot different from the former slaves point of view. I guess that Indentured Servitude is better than Slavery but not by much. The Mississippi River flood of 1927 was the final nail in the antebellum agrarian society that OM romanticizes.

[Pollodawg]

A free market by definition does not have slaves.


Capitalism is free market. How is slavery not perfect capitalism in which you invest little to nothing, charge what you want for your product, then buy more land and slaves with it?

[Pollodawg]

"Just FYI, this is wildly inaccurate. Lincoln never told the South they couldn?t keep their slaves. He, in fact said the opposite on more than one occasion, that he had ?no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with slavery where it already existed.?"

That is pure Lost Cause. In fact Lincoln DID eventually tell the South they couldn't keep their slaves.

Not in the dictatorial spirit in which it’s implied is my point, he didn’t.

[Pollodawg]

Lincoln didn’t just put his finger in the South’s face and tell them “this is how it’s gonna be. Kiss my long ass.” A lot happened to make him the president he was and bring him to that place.

My Lord, there were caveats to the EP, man.

[TrapGame]

<<<<Yawn>>>>>

When this gets into Shakespeare (especially Hamlet), the Fall of the Roman Empire (more specific the rise of the Visigoths) or Ancient Aliens y'all let me know.

[BrunswickDawg]

<<<<Yawn>>>>>

When this gets into Shakespeare (especially Hamlet), the Fall of the Roman Empire (more specific the rise of the Visigoths) or Ancient Aliens y'all let me know.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/45/e9/61/45e9611843dd4f549f199a7cf2ba2701.jpg

[Johnson85]

Capitalism is free market. How is slavery not perfect capitalism in which you invest little to nothing, charge what you want for your product, then buy more land and slaves with it?

Well, a major point if not the point of capitalism is that generally everybody gets richer by letting market prices dictate where resources flow, which ensures that resources go to their most highly valued purposes (or at least more so than any central planner or any other system so far designed can manage). If you are taking a major input like labor, and restricting it from going to where it is most valuable, then that's not much capitalism.

If the test of capitalism is whether it can make some people rich at the expense of others, then communism is probably a more perfect capitalism, as the politically connected can be pretty fabulously wealthy in communism.

[Randolph Dupree]

Didn't read the whole thing but, guys, WTF happened to this thread? I clicked to read, what I thought was, a thread making fun of Ole Miss and I got a thread about somebody kissing Lincoln's long ass, aliens, and an argument on capitalism. Holy hell guys...I think this one got away from us.

[TUSK]

Didn't read the whole thing but, guys, WTF happened to this thread? I clicked to read, what I thought was, a thread making fun of Ole Miss and I got a thread about somebody kissing Lincoln's long ass, aliens, and an argument on capitalism. Holy hell guys...I think this one got away from us.

shhhhh,,,, it's going famously...

[Liverpooldawg]

delete

[Liverpooldawg]

Lincoln didn?t just put his finger in the South?s face and tell them ?this is how it?s gonna be. Kiss my long ass.? A lot happened to make him the president he was and bring him to that place.

My Lord, there were caveats to the EP, man.

Lincoln wasn't the whole government either. There were plenty who did exactly that, and that was the end result of the war so it's a moot point really.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Little boy, my entire academic study was the first 4 decades before the war including the war itself. I am well aware that Lincoln changed his position on emancipation during the war. He was also one of our most forward thinking, greatest presidents of all time. In fact, his changing attitudes toward slavery eventually forced border state cabinet members like the Blairs of Maryland away from supporting him later and almost alienated the so-called ?Butternut? regions of the lower
Midwest.

In fact, had the South returned to the Union peaceably prior to January, 1863, they could?ve retained their rights of property. I?m not throwing shade at Lincoln at all. I think we should have long ago jettisoned any connection this state has with the old confederacy beyond those houses in Natchez that yankees may top dollar to come and see.

Confederate memorials are the original participation trophy.

You should ask for your money back then. Nothing you couldn't learn from reading reddit for a week and a 1:50 in late fees at the library**

[BeardoMSU]

You should ask for your money back then. Nothing you couldn't learn from reading reddit for a week and a 1:50 in late fees at the library**

Next week you'll be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood...**

[KOdawg1]

Yall know how to completely ruin a fun thread

[LC Dawg]

The big picture here is that while there are quite a few college football programs struggling there is only one program in which discussion of their struggles easily transforms to discussions of slavery.

[Dolphus Raymond]

If thinking that waving rebel flags, plantation owner mascots, and chanting "the south will rise again" at a public university sporting event is dumb as hell, and is somehow "support for the left", then call me Mao Zedong.*

You damn Red. I bet you even keep a copy of Mao?s ?Little Red Book? under your pillow. *******

[timotheus]

I talked to a Hog fan today. He says they suck worse than the sharks.

[Pollodawg]

Lincoln wasn't the whole government either. There were plenty who did exactly that, and that was the end result of the war so it's a moot point really.

Except that no one in the federal government was demanding ultimate and unconditional emancipation prior to secession at the time except for a fringe minority of abolitionist, mostly New Englanders. I didn’t realize being wrong would annoy you this badly.

[RougeDawg]

The Old South cult of OM and the town of Oxford is the antithesis of "left" and/or "PC culture". I'm sure you can post examples of some rando professor at OM saying something stupid, but you can literally do that with every single college in America. OM's culture continually brings negative attention to MS.

Btw...MSU, and Starkville by association, are far more "progressive" than Oxford/OM....and by progressive, I don't mean liberal vs conservative, I mean not stuck in the rut of 1861. A rut they refuse to fully climb out of, because if they do, they'll piss off the old-money knuckle-draggers who pay the bills at that shit hole institution.

I see your knowledge of history is lacking based on your first paragraph. The old south and the left can be used interchangeably. I could write you a 200+ page book on comparisons of then and now if you?d like, but you?d probably just ignore facts over your truths. Same principles used then and now, if you see reality for what it is, instead of seeing the reality the media would want you to believe. But I digress, it is a waste of time to try to point out that water is wet and Fire is hot, to anyone who makes up yheir own facts based on what they believe is reality.

Carry on, but try to pull your head out of the sand every so often to get a breath of sos.

Eta. Based on your response, you may want to get a refund on whatever dictionary you reference.