How Do We Fix This Charmin Defense?

[ShotgunDawg]

Any thoughts?

[Dawgfan77]

We can?t. Only hope we have is to put score. We lack SEC talent at DT. Scratching my head why we didn?t sign at least one JUCO interior lineman

[ShotgunDawg]

We can?t. Only hope we have is to put score. We lack SEC talent at DT. Scratching my head why we didn?t sign at least one JUCO interior lineman

Not signing a JUCO DL, while signing an ineligible punter and a deadbeat RB, is one awful roster building decision

[Walkerhill]

Not signing a JUCO DL, while signing an ineligible punter and a deadbeat RB, is one awful roster building decision

There are only a handful of sec caliber juco linemen each year. I am assuming we swung hard and missed on them.

[Saltydog]

Agree with Df77. The youth, inexperience and lack of elite talent is gonna make for some long Saturdays I'm afraid. If we get one or two guys dinged up it's gonna get ugly.

[Homedawg]

There are only a handful of sec caliber juco linemen each year. I am assuming we swung hard and missed on them.

We backed off of the one that we had a shot at. Would he have been a difference maker?? Don't know. Not much we can do, just suck it up and let these young guys play and get better. Can't go pick up a feee agent.

[confucius say]

Should we slant more? I don?t feel like we can hold the point of attack, so maybe just slant and get penetration? I know you can get gashed that way and that?s not what we have done in the past, but desperate times and all.

[Dawgfan77]

Should we slant more? I don?t feel like we can hold the point of attack, so maybe just slant and get penetration? I know you can get gashed that way and that?s not what we have done in the past, but desperate times and all.
We could but we don?t have decent enough DE play.

[Hambone]

Oh, I don’t know... maybe play more than one game and see if we really do have a crap defense or maybe see if Louisiana has success against most of their teams.

Their three running backs combined for right at 3,000 yards last year and their entire o-line consisted of redshirt seniors and one junior.

Yes, we did miss way too many tackles and did look out of position. You can’t deny that.

I’m just hoping this was more of first game jitters and not that our defense is soft.

[confucius say]

Oh, I don’t know... maybe play more than one game and see if we really do have a crap defense or maybe see if Louisiana has success against most of their teams.

Their three running backs combined for right at 3,000 yards last year and their entire o-line consisted of redshirt seniors and one junior.

Yes, we did miss way too many tackles and did look out of position. You can’t deny that.

I’m just hoping this was more of first game jitters and not that our defense is soft.

I do think ull is better offensively than ky, tn, ark, and om. And has as good or a better ol than those 4. So there is that at least.

[KOdawg1]

We could but we don?t have decent enough DE play.

This is my concern. We knew DT was going to be iffy, but we, for the most part, thought our DEs were a strong unit. I didn't see many QB hurries or pressure out of them. I think we can survive weak DTs if our DEs play well, but if the entire DL looks like dog shit, then we won't be winning 8 games

[Randolph Dupree]

I say wait a bit and see what a less vanilla scheme can do for us. The DL and defense was unimpressive yesterday and will be something to watch going forward but RELAX and let's see what unfolds.

[gravedigger]

Oh, I don?t know... maybe play more than one game and see if we really do have a crap defense or maybe see if Louisiana has success against most of their teams.

Their three running backs combined for right at 3,000 yards last year and their entire o-line consisted of redshirt seniors and one junior.

Yes, we did miss way too many tackles and did look out of position. You can?t deny that.

I?m just hoping this was more of first game jitters and not that our defense is soft.

Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.

Never wrestle with a pig in mud. The first thing you realize is that you cannot win. The next thing you realize is the pig enjoys it.

[codeDawg]

The kids could start by taking the game seriously. They all looked like Bourbon Street took it out of them Friday night. These same players played better last year.

[thf24]

This is my concern. We knew DT was going to be iffy, but we, for the most part, thought our DEs were a strong unit. I didn't see many QB hurries or pressure out of them.I think we can survive weak DTs if our DEs play well, but if the entire DL looks like dog shit, then we won't be winning 8 games

An optimistic explanation could be that we were playing mostly to contain yesterday due to facing the most athletic QB we'll see all year. Regardless, DE's definitely didn't stand out as a strength.

[Ari Gold]

Not signing a JUCO DL, while signing an ineligible punter and a deadbeat RB, is one awful roster building decision

There was one maybe 2 juco DT we were on. We went after a grad DT from Rice really hard and have a transfer Love from Louisville that we thought very good about being eligible. So to say lack of effort was there to bring in quick DT help that’s false.
If there is blame to be thrown down why aren’t there any upper class DT?? That blame goes to the HC at Fla.

[Homedawg]

There was one maybe 2 juco DT we were on. We went after a grad DT from Rice really hard and have a transfer Love from Louisville that we thought very good about being eligible. So to say lack of effort was there to bring in quick DT help that’s false.
If there is blame to be thrown down why aren’t there any upper class DT?? That blame goes to the HC at Fla.

The transfer we have wouldn't be playing if he was eligible. We reached on him out of desperation and he can't play. As in not a good player.

[tcdog70]

Seems to me our linebacker play was weak.More blame to LBs than DL also we played very vanilla, not many blitzes and DL didn't stunt much. Our safeties whiffed on many tackles. Autry and Gay would have made a huge difference. Also having the Louisville transfer would help.

[RiverCityDawg]

The transfer we have wouldn't be playing if he was eligible. We reached on him out of desperation and he can't play. As in not a good player.

Not even as good as Jackson, who is an offensive lineman, or Jones? Sheesh. Tells you how slim the pickings were at DT. Dammit, Autry. Him and Willie are going to cost us one of these swing games.

[SmokeyDawg]

The kids could start by taking the game seriously. They all looked like Bourbon Street took it out of them Friday night. These same players played better last year.

I thought the freshman DT's had more hustle than our seasoned veterans. Several plays that Crumedy ran down from behind. Saw a couple examples with Lovett too. He laid someone out after a fumble recovery. Plenty of things to be worried about but it was encouraging to see their effort at the minimum

[Ari Gold]

We all knew the DL was going to be an issue. It was worse than I thought it would be
But it?s week 1 , these guys will get better..

The glaring issue to me was how slow and lethargic we looked on D. Might be time to stop hiring from within when it comes the the S&C coach.

And finally it?s not this ULL team is a door mat in their conference . Not sugar coating at all but this was a decent veteran Non P5 team. And you could tell after our first drive they wanted to be there and play much more than our guys did.
That?s on the staff. We aren?t good enough to go thru the motions to win games .. we never have or never will be that good.

[Ari Gold]

The transfer we have wouldn't be playing if he was eligible. We reached on him out of desperation and he can't play. As in not a good player.


Agree. There wasnt a juco DT or DL our there that we could have gotten ( that I know of ) that come right in and is a difference maker.
The big Miss was Byron Young.. but he wasn’t going to come in and be a first year Jeffery Simmons

[Cooterpoot]

Dan Mullen quit giving a shit a couple years before he left. He Jimbo Fishered our WR and DL. Nothing we can do other than recruit. Gay and Autry will help a little.

[RiverCityDawg]

We all knew the DL was going to be an issue. It was worse than I thought it would be
It it’s week 1 , these guys will get better..

The glaring issue to me was how slow and lethargic we looked on D. Might be time to stop hiring from within when it comes the the S&C coach.

And finally it’s not this ULL team is a door mat in their conference . Not sugar coating at all but this was a decent veteran Non P5 team. And you could tell after our first drive they wanted to be there and play much more than our guys did.
That’s on the staff. We aren’t good enough to go thru the motions to win games .. we never have or never will be that good.

Good post. I thought ULL had a good plan on offense and a good scheme. Their play calling was good except for that 4th and 1 swing pass early in the game which was one of the worst play calls I can remember.

But agree that our D looked lethargic, especially at linebacker. Our ends didn't look as good against the run as I thought they would be and CJ Morgan looked bad in run support. It was troubling that we had our foot on their throat in the second half but our D appeared to get tired and we couldn't close it out strong. That 99 yard drive was rough.

[Ari Gold]

Dan Mullen quit giving a shit a couple years before he left. He Jimbo Fishered our WR and DL. Nothing we can do other than recruit. Gay and Autry will help a little.

Excellent take. But Autry and Willie will help a lot more than most think. It?s just going to be what 4 they play in.
And Dan should give 2-3 coaches and ex coach a HUGE Christmas gift for closing that juco class for him.

And don?t forget RB... people and talking heads blast Joe and his first staff for not signing more RBs, where are the upper class men RB on the roster ?? Hill and Gibson and that?s it

[Cooterpoot]

Yeah, RB is another spot.

[Cooterpoot]

And I can say (will make some mad) we downgraded at DL coach and LB coach. Both can recruit but neither can coach as well as the guys we had.

[Scared_Hitless]

And I can say (will make some mad) we downgraded at DL coach and LB coach. Both can recruit but neither can coach as well as the guys we had.

I mean Baker is a definite our LB coach had zero desire to coach college so back to the NFL. We are going to learn how valuable S&C is this season. It was a bad hire and needs correcting now

[BuckyIsAB****]

Its going to be ok. The biggest problem was tackling and it will get better. Calling it a charmin defense is just disrespectful. They forced 5 turnovers. The DL wasnt the problem. Our LBs and hang players were what hurt us the most. It will be ok. Calm your asses down

[ShotgunDawg]

Calling it a charmin defense is just disrespectful.

Giving up 28 points to ULL is disrespectful to what an MSU defense should be expected to play like.

There needs to be a standard set by all

[KOdawg1]

And I can say (will make some mad) we downgraded at DL coach and LB coach. Both can recruit but neither can coach as well as the guys we had.
Agree about DL coach, disagree about LB coach

[BuckyIsAB****]

Giving up 28 points to ULL is disrespectful to what an MSU defense should be expected to play like.

There needs to be a standard set by all

Sure. But one of the teams yall love on here the 2014 team gave up 34 to UAB at home in an early season game. It is going to be ok. USM will test our offense bc they are good on D. I cant wait to hear about how bad we suck there next week.

If we tackle better they dont score as much. That will get fixed as the season goes. Nobody practices live tackling anymore so you are going to see this trend in football across all levels.

[Schultzy]

We all knew the DL was going to be an issue. It was worse than I thought it would be
But it?s week 1 , these guys will get better..

The glaring issue to me was how slow and lethargic we looked on D. Might be time to stop hiring from within when it comes the the S&C coach.

And finally it?s not this ULL team is a door mat in their conference . Not sugar coating at all but this was a decent veteran Non P5 team. And you could tell after our first drive they wanted to be there and play much more than our guys did.
That?s on the staff. We aren?t good enough to go thru the motions to win games .. we never have or never will be that good.
ULL is better offensively than 3 teams we play in conference. Hate to be a homer but as bad as the SEC is right now I’m optimistic about this season.

Now the slow roller we allowed to hit us in the foot for a turnover drives me bananas but maybe we can avoid that kind of stupid crap from here on out?!? Or is that more than an MSU should ask?

[Coach007]

We all knew the DL was going to be an issue. It was worse than I thought it would be
But it?s week 1 , these guys will get better..

The glaring issue to me was how slow and lethargic we looked on D. Might be time to stop hiring from within when it comes the the S&C coach.

And finally it?s not this ULL team is a door mat in their conference . Not sugar coating at all but this was a decent veteran Non P5 team. And you could tell after our first drive they wanted to be there and play much more than our guys did.
That?s on the staff. We aren?t good enough to go thru the motions to win games .. we never have or never will be that good.

It wasn't as bad as I thought when I looked at the production they had last year. One of their main guys was averaging 7 yards per carry. Another 9! However, they simply did not try to run over us. Those 3 main backs only attempted 14 rushing attempts. 2 listed above.

I can't remember everything from that game, but it seems we stopped them and got them off the field on 3rd downs with them behind the chains.

[Homedawg]

The red zone stat comparison from last year is amazing. Last year we allowed 10 td on 34 red zone possessions. So 29%. Yesterday they score td 4 out of 5 trips. Obviously, I certainly hope and doubt we will give up 80% for the year. But it was bad yesterday

[Cowbell]

Giving up 28 points to ULL is disrespectful to what an MSU defense should be expected to play like.

There needs to be a standard set by all

Gun - you want to talk about standard - you started this thread by calling our newest player a deadbeat - I would like to know if you have ever met him personally? I bet you wouldn?t say that to his face.

We as fans can start a standard by giving this team time and verbal support. If Moorhead were to ever prove that he was the right hire, he will be gone in a hot minute. You know why - because we suck as a fan base at being respectful and supportive - half the time being ignorant of the big picture.

[Ari Gold]

Agree about DL coach, disagree about LB coach

100% correct

[Liverpooldawg]

Gun - you want to talk about standard - you started this thread by calling our newest player a deadbeat - I would like to know if you have ever met him personally? I bet you wouldn?t say that to his face.

We as fans can start a standard by giving this team time and verbal support. If Moorhead were to ever prove that he was the right hire, he will be gone in a hot minute. You know why - because we suck as a fan base at being respectful and supportive - half the time being ignorant of the big picture.

YEP.

[Matt3467]

Shouldn't we think about letting Pickering play? If we're this thin at DL it can only help.

[Cowbell]

Shouldn't we think about letting Pickering play? If we're this thin at DL it can only help.

That might have been the plan had we a more comfortable lead yesterday.

[Coach007]

Shouldn't we think about letting Pickering play? If we're this thin at DL it can only help.

He didn't yesterday, and we played alot of young people. 8 on defense:

Crumedy
Lovett
Emerson
Jones
Duncan
Conner
Williams
Jackson


All of those are Freshman except for 2 and they are Sophomore. Some are TRUE freshmen too.

[Coach007]

Starting Defense:

LE 5 Chauncey Rivers
DT 84 Jaden Crumedy ---- RS Freshman
NG 54 Fabien Lovett ----- RS Freshman
RE 42 M. Spencer
WILL 10 Leo Lewis
STAR 32 Brian Cole II
MIKE 40 Erroll Thompson
CB 8S M. Smitherman
FS 29 C.J. Morgan
SS 11 J. Landrews
CB 3 Cam Dantzler



The the full Participation list:

1E-Martin Emerson
2A-A. Conner,
2J-Jarrian Jones,
5J-R.J. Jennings
6B-Paul Blackwell,
13-Tyler Williams,
14-N. Watson,
16-Korey Charles,
17-Aaron Odom,
18-Aaron Brule,
19-Collin Duncan,
20-Taury Dixon,
28-Londyn Craft,
30-S. Kilby-Lane,
34-Sherman Timbs,
35-Landon Guidry,
38-Fred Peters,
43-Fletcher Adams,
50-Tim Washington,
52-Kobe Jones,
92-Kendell Jones,
99-James Jackson.

[gtowndawg]

I'm sure it's been said somewhere but one highly concerning thing to me was our inability to shed a blocker. Even Rivers struggled with that. If ULL got their hands on a defensive player we looked like children trying to get out of their grasp? That could be coaching, lack of talent, out of shape, or just no motor. But none of those are good.

[Cooterpoot]

We have no edge speed. Doesn’t matter who we put at DE they’re not a true rush end. Which makes the run defense even more concerning.

[ShotgunDawg]

We have no edge speed. Doesn’t matter who we put at DE they’re not a true rush end. Which makes the run defense even more concerning.

Mayeb Russell can contribute as the season goes

[TALL DAWG]

Dan Mullen quit giving a shit a couple years before he left. He Jimbo Fishered our WR and DL. Nothing we can do other than recruit. Gay and Autry will help a little.

Help a little?? Coot, these 2 have NFL potential. Hurts a lot when they are out.

Pickering not being in shape when he arrived hurt
also as he was one we thought would be in the rotation.

[TrapGame]

Help a little?? Coot, these 2 have NFL potential. Hurts a lot when they are out.

Yeah, with Gay and Autry in that defense it will look way better. Two talented starters out is the main reason the defense looks weak.

[Ari Gold]

The defensive DL guys will get better as the year goes on.. that’s What happens when talented young guys get more reps. Almost everyone of these guys were seeing their first college action on Sat.. this is where we have to hope Deke is a really good coach. He can recruit but Baker was a helluva DL coach.
We need players like Adams, Kobe, Rivers , and Spencer to take up the slack and really get after it..

And on Shoop , there is no way he used all the bullets in his gun Sat , hell not sure he used 1/4 of them ..
he is the least of my worries.

But the one worry going forward is the S&C .. I admit I know zero about what goes on there behind the scenes .. but those results didn’t look very good Sat.
Not every player is a gym rat like Kylin or like Simmons was. Some of these players need that ass ridden To get results needed

[Lord McBuckethead]

Seems to me our linebacker play was weak.More blame to LBs than DL also we played very vanilla, not many blitzes and DL didn't stunt much. Our safeties whiffed on many tackles. Autry and Gay would have made a huge difference. Also having the Louisville transfer would help.

Well ut appeared to me that our lbs were getting blocked by the OL easily blocking our dl and moving to the second level. And other times it looked like they just jogged out of position. I would say "ran" out of position, but they looked too slow to be running.

[Cowbell]

The defensive DL guys will get better as the year goes on.. that’s What happens when talented young guys get more reps. Almost everyone of these guys were seeing their first college action on Sat.. this is where we have to hope Deke is a really good coach. He can recruit but Baker was a helluva DL coach.
We need players like Adams, Kobe, Rivers , and Spencer to take up the slack and really get after it..

And on Shoop , there is no way he used all the bullets in his gun Sat , hell not sure he used 1/4 of them ..
he is the least of my worries.

But the one worry going forward is the S&C .. I admit I know zero about what goes on there behind the scenes .. but those results didn’t look very good Sat.
Not every player is a gym rat like Kylin or like Simmons was. Some of these players need that ass ridden To get results needed

I brought this up earlier in the year due to us hiring within - it worries me when a S&C coach is grossly overweight himself...

[Bubb Rubb]

The transfer we have wouldn't be playing if he was eligible. We reached on him out of desperation and he can't play. As in not a good player.

Love? He is a good player and would definitely be playing if he were eligible.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Love? He is a good player and would definitely be playing if he were eligible.

We took him knowing that Autry was probably going to be suspended so we needed another body. Hes not ready.

CJ Morgan will have to play better too or I think we may see Jarrian Jones or Fred Peters get reps at safety. Jones is a natural CB but he is more athletic and better in space than CJ is right now

[Cooterpoot]

Help a little?? Coot, these 2 have NFL potential. Hurts a lot when they are out.

Pickering not being in shape when he arrived hurt
also as he was one we thought would be in the rotation.

We never expected Pickering in the rotation. He was expected to redshirt. Autry May get drafted....may but I?m not betting on that. Gay is a difference maker.

[Homedawg]

Love? He is a good player and would definitely be playing if he were eligible.

No. No he's not....

[Bubb Rubb]

No. No he's not....

You must know something Deke Adams doesn't.

[Homedawg]

You must know something Deke Adams doesn't.

Haha. Deke didn't tell you he could play. Forget what he tells the press...

[Todd4State]

The defensive DL guys will get better as the year goes on.. that?s What happens when talented young guys get more reps. Almost everyone of these guys were seeing their first college action on Sat.. this is where we have to hope Deke is a really good coach. He can recruit but Baker was a helluva DL coach.
We need players like Adams, Kobe, Rivers , and Spencer to take up the slack and really get after it..

And on Shoop , there is no way he used all the bullets in his gun Sat , hell not sure he used 1/4 of them ..
he is the least of my worries.

But the one worry going forward is the S&C .. I admit I know zero about what goes on there behind the scenes .. but those results didn?t look very good Sat.
Not every player is a gym rat like Kylin or like Simmons was. Some of these players need that ass ridden To get results needed


I brought this up earlier in the year due to us hiring within - it worries me when a S&C coach is grossly overweight himself...

What I just highlighted doesn't mean anything about anything.

To me it looks like we just bulked up and didn't spend enough time on becoming more athletic and flexible. I do think you could chalk it up to inexperience on the S&C coach....which again goes back to being lazy and just promoting within.

[Todd4State]

We took him knowing that Autry was probably going to be suspended so we needed another body. Hes not ready.

CJ Morgan will have to play better too or I think we may see Jarrian Jones or Fred Peters get reps at safety. Jones is a natural CB but he is more athletic and better in space than CJ is right now

I think that's where the suspensions hurt us. We could use Murphy- or use Gay and slide Cole over to safety. I'm all for giving Peters a shot- but he didn't flash when he played either. In all honesty- we should have subbed our players better in certain situations on both sides of the ball. Jones is definitely a tremendous athlete. As is Tyler Williams. Not sure that either one could play safety though.

[Bubb Rubb]

Haha. Deke didn't tell you he could play. Forget what he tells the press...

You clearly think you know something. Ask him. He'll tell you.

[Homedawg]

You clearly think you know something. Ask him. He'll tell you.

He doesn't think live can play. I'll leave it at hat .....

[Bubb Rubb]

We took him knowing that Autry was probably going to be suspended so we needed another body. Hes not ready.

CJ Morgan will have to play better too or I think we may see Jarrian Jones or Fred Peters get reps at safety. Jones is a natural CB but he is more athletic and better in space than CJ is right now

I didn't say Love would be starting. But if he was eligible to play, he would be playing.

[Bubb Rubb]

He doesn't think live can play. I'll leave it at hat .....

No comprende.

I'm not certain of what you're trying to say here. In fact, I'm not certain of much. But I know of these certainties: death, taxes, and you being seriously misinformed on this subject. I'll leave it at that.

[Cooterpoot]

Love isn’t as good as Pickering and Russell. Neither played Sat.

[Bubb Rubb]

Love isn’t as good as Pickering and Russell. Neither played Sat.

Love is a year ahead of both of those guys and has game experience. Those guys have a much higher upside but he is more advanced than them from a maturity standpoint and is more physically ready to play than both of them. He is on par with both of our starting redshirt freshmen DTs.

We've known pretty much from day one that Pickering was going to redshirt. He needs it. Russell has been a surprise thus far.

[Cooterpoot]

No he’s not. His skill level is well behind them. He’s not the biggest guy either. We were desperate for bodies.
He wouldn’t start. He would rotate in very little. He wouldn’t make a difference at all.