Defensive Regression Theorys?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Why do you guys think we were so much worse than last year at virtually everything?

Obviously the talent loss explains a lot of the regression, but it doesn't explain things like:

1) DE's getting significantly less pressure than last year... Rivers and Kobe did basically nothing despite facing 1 on 1's most of the game. Last year even vs SEC competition I remember those guys beating blockers

2) Tackling fundamentals. We missed a ton of tackles today and used poor form, which wasn't a problem at any point last year even when the backups (IE our current starters) were in late in blowouts

3) Guys not knowing their assignments. We went all last year with everyone -even backups- knowing their job. Today we saw Erroll Thompson miss his pass coverage assignment, and there were 2 WRs wide open behind our D that their QB didn't connect with. What gives? This has NOTHING to do with physical built or athleticism, it's 100% mental and imo has always been the easiest way to tell if a DC is good or not; do his guys know their assignments? Well last year in year 1 of his system everyone did, this year those same LBs and secondary players don't. Not sure what's up, especially given that there was no turnover with S or CB coaches

What are y'alls theorys on it? I will say the players looked in worse shape, which could explain 1) and some of 2), but not 3).

[Liverpooldawg]

Why do you guys think we were so much worse than last year at virtually everything?

Obviously the talent loss explains a lot of the regression, but it doesn't explain things like:

1) DE's getting significantly less pressure than last year... Rivers and Kobe did basically nothing despite facing 1 on 1's most of the game. Last year even vs SEC competition I remember those guys beating blockers

2) Tackling fundamentals. We missed a ton of tackles today and used poor form, which wasn't a problem at any point last year even when the backups (IE our current starters) were in late in blowouts

3) Guys not knowing their assignments. We went all last year with everyone -even backups- knowing their job. Today we saw Erroll Thompson miss his pass coverage assignment, and there were 2 WRs wide open behind our D that their QB didn't connect with. What gives? This has NOTHING to do with physical built or athleticism, it's 100% mental and imo has always been the easiest way to tell if a DC is good or not; do his guys know their assignments? Well last year in year 1 of his system everyone did, this year those same LBs and secondary players don't. Not sure what's up, especially given that there was no turnover with S or CB coaches

What are y'alls theorys on it? I will say the players looked in worse shape, which could explain 1) and some of 2), but not 3).

We lost three NFL draft picks on defense. Two of them were first rounders in the front four. It ain't rocket science.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We lost three NFL draft picks on defense. Two of them were first rounders in the front four. It ain't rocket science.

I already tlked about that, losing that talent explains literally none of the 3 things I said. I didn't say "why aren't we getting pressure", I said "why are the returning players worse than they were last year". Again Kobe and Rivers won more 1 on 1's last year, Erroll didn't miss tackles or assignments last year, Corey Charles, Landrews, and Brian Cole didn't miss tackles like this last year, and the secondary as a whole didn't blow coverage like this. Leo and Erroll were out of position sometimes. None of that can be explained by Simmons, Sweat, Abram, and the others being gone

[Todd4State]

The biggest issue I saw was S&C. And I think it can explain 3 to a degree in that if you aren't in as good a shape or as athletic as you should be it can make it more difficult to "get to your spot" or run down someone on the edge.

Most of their sustained drives came in the second half. Which tells me that we were worn down. If I'm not mistaken in the first half their two TD's came on a sustained drive against our 2's on the DL at least and then the TD on a short field.

Shoop did a poor job of making adjustments too. Not sure what that was about.

[Homedawg]

Part of being worn down is Bc we played 6 de last year. Today we played 4. Last year we played 6 dt. Today we basically played 4. But not near even snaps. Lb Leo and Errol played almost every snap. Last year Willie was subbing in. Missed tackles occur due to fatigue.

[HoopsDawg]

I already tlked about that, losing that talent explains literally none of the 3 things I said. I didn't say "why aren't we getting pressure", I said "why are the returning players worse than they were last year". Again Kobe and Rivers won more 1 on 1's last year, Erroll didn't miss tackles or assignments last year, Corey Charles, Landrews, and Brian Cole didn't miss tackles like this last year, and the secondary as a whole didn't blow coverage like this. Leo and Erroll were out of position sometimes. None of that can be explained by Simmons, Sweat, Abram, and the others being gone

Korey Charles, Landrews, and Brian Cole barely played last year. Rivers and Kobe were 2nd string. Erroll was a better player with better d-tackles in front of him. Like Liverpool said, it's pretty simple.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The biggest issue I saw was S&C. And I think it can explain 3 to a degree in that if you aren't in as good a shape or as athletic as you should be it can make it more difficult to "get to your spot" or run down someone on the edge.

Most of their sustained drives came in the second half. Which tells me that we were worn down. If I'm not mistaken in the first half their two TD's came on a sustained drive against our 2's on the DL at least and then the TD on a short field.

Shoop did a poor job of making adjustments too. Not sure what that was about.

I think Shoop did make an adjustment: early in the game ULL ran it between the tackles, whereas later in the game that seemed less effective each time they tried it. I think SHoop probably fixed it. Problem was our CBs and LBs couldn't get off a single block, and the first guy there rarely stopped the runner, so they were able to gash us outside. Not sure what Shoop could have done about that aside from give up the safety help over top and make us vulnerable to the big play. We have to play more physical outside, that's the only solution I see to stop teams from running outside on us every game till we shift LBs out and then they'll run it right up the middle

[bobtail bob]

I saw a fat Errol Thompson and Leo Lewis get stepped around by a second tier Qb that Montez Sweat would have left laying on the turf. These dudes don't look explosive or like they can make an impact on the game. I don't think there is any answer to the problem

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Korey Charles, Landrews, and Brian Cole barely played last year. Rivers and Kobe were 2nd string. Erroll was a better player with better d-tackles in front of him. Like Liverpool said, it's pretty simple.

The "we got tired due to lack of depth" theory doesn't explain why these problems existed even in the first quarter when everyone was fresh.

Also Landrews and Cole were starters before their injuries, Corey Charles played a bit and Smitherman was basically a starting over Peters by the end, and I remember seeing each of them on the field last year and being shocked at how well they played. Also Dantzler is a constant from last year. Remember, these players all played vs Bama and consistently shut down Smith, Jeudy and Ruggs even when Abram and Peters and McLaurin rotated off, so don't tell me they've always been scrubs and this is how I should expect them to play. We've seen proof they can get off blocks and make tackles and know their assignments so why not now?

[Todd4State]

I think Shoop did make an adjustment: early in the game ULL ran it between the tackles, whereas later in the game that seemed less effective each time they tried it. I think SHoop probably fixed it. Problem was our CBs and LBs couldn't get off a single block, and the first guy there rarely stopped the runner, so they were able to gash us outside. Not sure what Shoop could have done about that aside from give up the safety help over top and make us vulnerable to the big play. We have to play more physical outside, that's the only solution I see to stop teams from running outside on us every game till we shift LBs out and then they'll run it right up the middle

Rep given. I was pretty pleased with how we handled the run. I figured that they would get yards because of their scheme and personnel.

I think you are right about the safety help. And I think at this point we have to be willing to risk it some and the risk of giving up a big play rather than death by a thousand bootlegs. Especially against a team with a QB that didn't really hit very many deep passes. I think the other option along with that is to being pressure with the LB's more. I don't think we did that a lot from my seat at the Superdome and I think most of us figured that would be how we would make an adjustment to losing players. Instead we went more conservative it seemed like.

[defiantdog]

Also didn't help that Erroll barely came out of the game..... Dude needs to shed some pounds if he's gonna play that much.

[Liverpooldawg]

I already tlked about that, losing that talent explains literally none of the 3 things I said. I didn't say "why aren't we getting pressure", I said "why are the returning players worse than they were last year". Again Kobe and Rivers won more 1 on 1's last year, Erroll didn't miss tackles or assignments last year, Corey Charles, Landrews, and Brian Cole didn't miss tackles like this last year, and the secondary as a whole didn't blow coverage like this. Leo and Erroll were out of position sometimes. None of that can be explained by Simmons, Sweat, Abram, and the others being gone

When you have two first rounders eating up blockers up front , everybody behind them looks better. The secondary doesn't have maintain coverage as long. Nothing on the football field happens in isolation, except in the minds of people who know nothing about football.......

[BuckyIsAB****]

Its 1 game....everyone has problems tackling in the first game usually. Everyone has problems lining up usually. My biggest problem was our best player and our other LB with significant experience probably played as bad as I've ever seen them. ULL has a vet OL and 3 pretty good backs. It is going to be ok. Yall act like the game wasnt 35-14 in the 4th

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's a little early to make some grand declarations.

If we struggle we're still struggling by K-State, I'll begin to get worried.

I sincerely believe we are better than what we showed today

[Coach007]

1- The pressure

ULL has a smart coach. That guy will move up because he is a student of the game. He knew exactly what we lost and knew we were thin. So he went up tempo to keep the substitutions and therefore wearing the DL down.

2- Tackling...

Mixed bag really. New guys. We played a lot of them. Some of these were not back ups last year. They either were not on the team or red shirts. The huge disappointments are the adjustments of our LBs in the scheme.

3- Youth:

Aadreekis Conner.. So
Jarrian Jones.. True Freshman
Tyler Williams... SO
Lovett.... Freshman
Crumedy... freshman
Emerson... Freshman.

I believe what we saw today was a feeling that we would win and we needed to build depth and test the waters.

I 100% believe you will see this again next week with some tweaks.


I really can't recall alot of blitzing either.

[Coach007]

The "we got tired due to lack of depth" theory doesn't explain why these problems existed even in the first quarter when everyone was fresh.




They don't exist, they were created by a great coach who knew our weakness in game 1 of the year. He played up tempo to keep us from substituting

[defiantdog]

1- The pressure

ULL has a smart coach. That guy will move up because he is a student of the game. He knew exactly what we lost and knew we were thin. So he went up tempo to keep the substitutions and therefore wearing the DL down.

2- Tackling...

Mixed bag really. New guys. We played a lot of them. Some of these were not back ups last year. They either were not on the team or red shirts. The huge disappointments are the adjustments of our LBs in the scheme.

3- Youth:

Aadreekis Conner.. So
Jarrian Jones.. True Freshman
Tyler Williams... SO
Lovett.... Freshman
Crumedy... freshman
Emerson... Freshman.

I believe what we saw today was a feeling that we would win and we needed to build depth and test the waters.

I 100% believe you will see this again next week with some tweaks.


I really can't recall alot of blitzing either.

Tyler Williams showed up today..... He's gonna be a good one for us.

[Todd4State]

As far as the depth goes...

It seemed to me like very few of the back-ups played well and were big time liabilities when they were in. The starters did OK outside of the LB's. Like everyone else- I'm not sure what's up with that.

[Todd4State]

Its 1 game....everyone has problems tackling in the first game usually. Everyone has problems lining up usually. My biggest problem was our best player and our other LB with significant experience probably played as bad as I've ever seen them. ULL has a vet OL and 3 pretty good backs. It is going to be ok. Yall act like the game wasnt 35-14 in the 4th

I honestly forgot that we were up by that much with 10 minutes left to go. One other thing is that unlike Tennessee, Arkansas and others- we were at a neutral site and the crowd wasn't exactly the most hostile that I've ever seen. The atmosphere was pretty flat. Had we been in Starkville I think it's a little bit different.


I think it's a little early to make some grand declarations.

If we struggle we're still struggling by K-State, I'll begin to get worried.

I sincerely believe we are better than what we showed today

I agree. My fear is that I have PTSD from past MSU coaches not making adjustments that they should. I think there are some potential solutions that could make us better. Blitzing more would be a good place to start. Getting Autry and Gay back at some point will help as well. Possibly Marcus Murphy too. And really most of the most of the suspended will help with depth when they come back. They scored two TD's when we would have been playing guys like Jett Johnson.

[basedog]

Two things,

ULL is much improved with very talented running backs.

Msu is young and right now it showed with less depth and inexperience.

I think we were sloppy and I think going in we were a little over confident especially after the first drive which was a beauty.

Winning makes watching the tape and making adjustments better for game two.

Yes we will be much improved on offense especially getting everyone back healthy and not near as good on defense.

[StarkvilleGuru]

A few factors that you have to consider beyond "our regression."

(1) UL-L has one of the most experienced O-lines in CFB. Although we will typically outclass them purely based on SEC talent.... (see 2 below).

(2) UL-L knows that our defense line is bigger/faster/stronger, so they played up-tempo the entire game. Few opportunities to sub the guys and they were clearly dragging. It's tough to simulate a full game of up-tempo offense during practice. We weren't ready in Week 1 for it, but I'm sure the coaches will be addressing this issue during the break before USM.

(3) Don't underemphasize the fact that we had 3 first round draft picks starting on defense. Two of which were on the line, and the other was a head hunter who destroyed any hole opened by opposing linemen.

Don't freak out. We were the better team and this is the wake-up call that our team needed. I would rather struggle with UL-L and have the guys be humbled, instead of winning by 46 with a QB who can't complete 10 yard passes. Our boys took care of business, and it seems more important that we did after watching the late games (looking at you Tenn and Mizzou).

[Jack Lambert]

All I saw was first game mistakes and horrible tackling. Make the tackles for lose yesterday and we have a different feeling. Not locking up killed them. That can be fix.

[99jc]

All I saw was first game mistakes and horrible tackling. Make the tackles for lose yesterday and we have a different feeling. Not locking up killed them. That can be fix.

I'm not concerned yet. if we look the same next weekend I will be. special teams needs to improve more than anything. Moorhead still looks lost at times and makes boneheaded calls.

[civildawg]

Our players are out of shape and it was noticeable yesterday. Thompson looks like he?s gained 15 lbs of fat and our DL looks fat and slow.