Is Chemistry required for all majors now at State?

[Jack Lambert]

Why in the hell are football players taking courses they can't pass on their own? If it is part of your major and you are having to take it and you need help you probably in the wrong major.

[TrapGame]

Good question.

[dantheman4248]

Survey of Chem 1 is a well known easy credit class at MSU.

0 attendance and all answers can be found with chegg / google.

It was pure laziness that these guys got the girl "tutor" to do it for them.

[MarketingBully]

So based on what we heard so far, why the hell were Nick, Willie, and Autry taking a freshman course? This is so dumb. Our department was definitely asleep at the wheel here. So it’s basically 3 non freshmen and 6 redshirt freshmen who were suspended. I think we will live but my gosh the athletic department has to do better. This is mostly on the players but a little oversight here would have gone a ****ing long way.

[MarketingBully]

Survey of Chem 1 is a well known easy credit class at MSU.

0 attendance and all answers can be found with chegg / google.

It was pure laziness that these guys got the girl "tutor" to do it for them.

I think that class needs to go away.

[Coursesuper]

Why in the hell are football players taking courses they can't pass on their own? If it is part of your major and you are having to take it and you need help you probably in the wrong major.

I'm pretty sure that this is the single most ignorant post I've seen on any message board. My god man, are you so naive to think that all of these kids actually belong in a college situation in the first place? Well guess what they don't and a the money making system that's in place is the only reason a bunch of theses kids are there at all. The entire thing is a shell game for your entertainment.

[Jack Lambert]

I'm pretty sure that this is the single most ignorant post I've seen on any message board. My god man, are you so naive to think that all of these kids actually belong in a college situation in the first place? Well guess what they don't and a the money making system that's in place is the only reason a bunch of theses kids are there at all. The entire thing is a shell game for your entertainment.

So which current football players don't belong other then these ten?

[dantheman4248]

I think that class needs to go away.

Only if the state takes away the "must be enrolled in 15 hours to be eligible for financial aid" bs they pulled.

I only took SoC1&2 because of that very reason.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Only if the state takes away the "must be enrolled in 15 hours to be eligible for financial aid" bs they pulled.

I only took SoC1&2 because of that very reason.

Personally, I like the 15 hour rule. The vast majority of undergrads should be taking 15 hours.

[Coursesuper]

So which current football players don't belong other then these ten?

Didn't think you'd grasp the gist of the post. Why do I even waste my time?

[Duckdog]

I'm pretty sure that this is the single most ignorant post I've seen on any message board. My god man, are you so naive to think that all of these kids actually belong in a college situation in the first place? Well guess what they don't and a the money making system that's in place is the only reason a bunch of theses kids are there at all. The entire thing is a shell game for your entertainment.

good post just watch last chance u how many juco players did we take this year??? they dumb

[dantheman4248]

Personally, I like the 15 hour rule. The vast majority of undergrads should be taking 15 hours.

Did you grow up too poor to afford college?
Did you ever get stuck in a semester that you had only 12 hours you could take that count towards your degree?
Did you have to have a job during college to put yourself through?

If you didn't answer yes to all of those questions then you have no idea what you are talking about. MSU considers 12 hours full time. Upping that from 12 to 15 only served to hurt students with financial difficulties and put more money back in the pockets of those who don't need it as much. It doesn't "help" anyone. Forcing extra load on people already overburdened in need of help while leaving people who need no help to have to feel no extra burden. Yea it's my fault I grew up poor and with two physically handicapped parents.

The rule is completely backwards. It should be 15 is full time unless you have a waiver from your dean based on your future graduation plan or you have actual financial hardship / family issues (which thankfully you can appeal the 15 hour rule based on, but sadly a parent's death doesn't guarantee you a waiver. Thanks Misissippi.) But it's 12 so there is no reason you should be pushing people already in financial difficulty to even worse lengths for them to get their aid while not pushing people who don't have issues.

[MarketingBully]

12 is plenty. 15 is a dumb stipulation. 4 to 5 classes is a big ****ing jump. I agree with Dan here.

[Jack Lambert]

Didn't think you'd grasp the gist of the post. Why do I even waste my time?


I grasped it I just thought it was a arrogant ass hole response.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Did you grow up too poor to afford college?
Did you ever get stuck in a semester that you had only 12 hours you could take that count towards your degree?
Did you have to have a job during college to put yourself through?

If you didn't answer yes to all of those questions then you have no idea what you are talking about. MSU considers 12 hours full time. Upping that from 12 to 15 only served to hurt students with financial difficulties and put more money back in the pockets of those who don't need it as much. It doesn't "help" anyone. Forcing extra load on people already overburdened in need of help while leaving people who need no help to have to feel no extra burden. Yea it's my fault I grew up poor and with two physically handicapped parents.

The rule is completely backwards. It should be 15 is full time unless you have a waiver from your dean based on your future graduation plan or you have actual financial hardship / family issues (which thankfully you can appeal the 15 hour rule based on, but sadly a parent's death doesn't guarantee you a waiver. Thanks Misissippi.) But it's 12 so there is no reason you should be pushing people already in financial difficulty to even worse lengths for them to get their aid while not pushing people who don't have issues.

I don't want to push anybody to financial hardship, but when students take only 12 hours per semester, I believe that they are less likely to graduate in the long run. I have no objection to waivers based on the student needing only so many hours to graduate. But if you go through 2 years of college and have only 48 hours, I think you're behind. Also, If you only take 12 hours, you can't drop a class if the need arises.

[AROB44]

12 is plenty. 15 is a dumb stipulation. 4 to 5 classes is a big ****ing jump. I agree with Dan here.

I had student loans and NEVER took less than 15 hours. Poor little babies!! Grow up.

[Jack Lambert]

I had student loans and NEVER took less than 15 hours. Poor little babies!! Grow up.

I didn't do loans. I use my Montgomery GI bill. It wasn't very good so I paid as I went along. Now college wasn't as expensive back then and I did not have to pay it all at once. However the Student Loan program is part of the reasoning behind the explosion of College tuition cost.

[dantheman4248]

I had student loans and NEVER took less than 15 hours. Poor little babies!! Grow up.

I had a full time job (30+ hrs/wk) while in school and no help from parents. Tuition went up a full 1k per semester while I was there.

Grow up and realize that the world has changed significantly and that those from poor backgrounds are significantly disadvantaged compared to those without and to those from 30,20, even 10 years ago.

I really don't get how people can get through a college education and decide that it's the kids who are lazy or "babies" and not realize that it is the system that is wholly broken and getting worse by the minute.

[AROB44]

I didn't do loans. I use my Montgomery GI bill. It wasn't very good so I paid as I went along. Now college wasn't as expensive back then and I did not have to pay it all at once. However the Student Loan program is part of the reasoning behind the explosion of College tuition cost.

Jack....I think I was there about the same time as you. I was there fall of 61 through spring of 65. Had a loan each year.

[dawgs]

I don't want to push anybody to financial hardship, but when students take only 12 hours per semester, I believe that they are less likely to graduate in the long run. I have no objection to waivers based on the student needing only so many hours to graduate. But if you go through 2 years of college and have only 48 hours, I think you're behind. Also, If you only take 12 hours, you can't drop a class if the need arises.

I took 12 hours a semester several times and graduated in 4 years. A couple of summer classes here and there helped, but sometimes you've taken all your electives and your major doesn't offer everything every semester, so you take 12 hours to do what you can.

[dawgs]

I had a full time job (30+ hrs/wk) while in school and no help from parents. Tuition went up a full 1k per semester while I was there.

Grow up and realize that the world has changed significantly and that those from poor backgrounds are significantly disadvantaged compared to those without and to those from 30,20, even 10 years ago.

I really don't get how people can get through a college education and decide that it's the kids who are lazy or "babies" and not realize that it is the system that is wholly broken and getting worse by the minute.

Yep. A college kid can't work to pay their way through college anymore, that's for certain. On top of tuition skyrocketing the last 15-20 years, you have a skyrocketing housing market and cost of living, but working students still get paid the same shitty minimum wage they got paid when I was in school.

[BB30]

I had a full time job (30+ hrs/wk) while in school and no help from parents. Tuition went up a full 1k per semester while I was there.

Grow up and realize that the world has changed significantly and that those from poor backgrounds are significantly disadvantaged compared to those without and to those from 30,20, even 10 years ago.

I really don't get how people can get through a college education and decide that it's the kids who are lazy or "babies" and not realize that it is the system that is wholly broken and getting worse by the minute.

And your missing a key part to the equation you were dedicated and wanted to get that degree and finish college. If you aren't maybe you shouldn't be in college.

College isn't for everyone. Due to the current college situation it would make more sense for kids to go to a 2 yr program and learn a trade.

You can make 6 figures in many trades now due to the fact that the "regular" job market (requiring a 4 yr degree) is too saturated. If i were back in school I would absolutely be considering learning a trade. You can own your own business and not have an unbelievable amount of debt coming out of school.

There are trade offs to everything and the way things are currently you can go to less school and make more money right out of a trade school now than you could getting your graduate degree and spending 6 years in college. IMO the only thing 4 years of school is good for now is growing up/ maturing and if your getting a special degree in engineering etc.

Sure getting a 4 yr degree in business or marketing is all well and dandy if you can afford it you do learn some things that will benefit you in the workplace but I may use 10% of what I learned while getting a business degree and that is being generous.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I had a full time job (30+ hrs/wk) while in school and no help from parents. Tuition went up a full 1k per semester while I was there.

Grow up and realize that the world has changed significantly and that those from poor backgrounds are significantly disadvantaged compared to those without and to those from 30,20, even 10 years ago.

I really don't get how people can get through a college education and decide that it's the kids who are lazy or "babies" and not realize that it is the system that is wholly broken and getting worse by the minute.

Most full time students don't also have full time jobs. The rules are not based on the exceptional cases like yours. They are based on what is more typical, and typically, it's a mistake for freshmen and sophomores to register for fewer than 15 hours.

[Coursesuper]

I grasped it I just thought it was a arrogant ass hole response.

So it's an arrogant, ass hole reply, ok I'll take that hit. But in turn, try not post complete and totally moronic thoughts and then get offended when you get called out on it.

[oldjoedawg]

So based on what we heard so far, why the hell were Nick, Willie, and Autry taking a freshman course? This is so dumb. Our department was definitely asleep at the wheel here. So it?s basically 3 non freshmen and 6 redshirt freshmen who were suspended. I think we will live but my gosh the athletic department has to do better. This is mostly on the players but a little oversight here would have gone a ****ing long way.

This whole program of tutoring is not under any control of the Athletic Dept! It is managed, for better or worse, through some part of Academics....AD nor coaches bear any blame in this.....all sections of the University have to take responsibility for their roles.....cannot blame JC or CJM....

[Dawg2003]

I never took more than 12 hours, but I went to summer school every year. I graduated on time. I also worked a full time job in college to pay for living expenses. My parents paid my tuition, but it was a lot cheaper at that time. The deal was theft of they paid the tuition, I would pay my living expenses.

[Jack Lambert]

So it's an arrogant, ass hole reply, ok I'll take that hit. But in turn, try not post complete and totally moronic thoughts and then get offended when you get called out on it.

You are the only one who is thinking that way. Post like yours use to not be allowed on this board but posters like you have made this place like SPS.

[dantheman4248]

Most full time students don't also have full time jobs. The rules are not based on the exceptional cases like yours. They are based on what is more typical, and typically, it's a mistake for freshmen and sophomores to register for fewer than 15 hours.

No it's not. The "rule" only applies to those coming in with disadvantages. That's what you aren't getting. Financial aid is there to help level the playing field for those who are disadvantaged financially. That's the point. Why add extra hoops for them to go through that other non-disadvantaged students can avoid is simply unfair.

If you're talking about making 15 fulltime for everyone that's a different discussion. But as it stands you agree that we should make it harder for people to get financial aid that need it and that I whole-heartedly disagree with.

[drunkernhelldawg]

No it's not. The "rule" only applies to those coming in with disadvantages. That's what you aren't getting. Financial aid is there to help level the playing field for those who are disadvantaged financially. That's the point. Why add extra hoops for them to go through that other non-disadvantaged students can avoid is simply unfair.

If you're talking about making 15 fulltime for everyone that's a different discussion. But as it stands you agree that we should make it harder for people to get financial aid that need it and that I whole-heartedly disagree with.

I agree to some extent, but if after a few semesters the student feels that he or she is not progressing quickly enough, the student may give up. In other words, I want them to both get their financial aid and graduate. Just getting the financial aid solves the problem for a semester, but life goes on after that.

[dantheman4248]

I agree to some extent, but if after a few semesters the student feels that he or she is not progressing quickly enough, the student may give up. In other words, I want them to both get their financial aid and graduate. Just getting the financial aid solves the problem for a semester, but life goes on after that.

Being poor doesn't change while you're in school....

[Coursesuper]

You are the only one who is thinking that way. Post like yours use to not be allowed on this board but posters like you have made this place like SPS.

This is exactly the problem now isn't it, when it doesn't fit your narrative it shouldn't be allowed. Thanks for your support.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Being poor doesn't change while you're in school....

You have your degree (or degrees?). That may be part of why you're not poor anymore. Yet if young people are encouraged to do only the minimum as they work toward a goal, in many cases they will not reach that goal. Failure is much more painful than an extra few hours of studying every week.

[mstatefan91]

good post just watch last chance u how many juco players did we take this year??? they dumb

They aren't dumb. College just isn't for everyone. Unfortunately, they have to attend college to achieve their dreams and help their families.

[Jack Lambert]

This is exactly the problem now isn't it, when it doesn't fit your narrative it shouldn't be allowed. Thanks for your support.

You can agree or disagree with someone and not be a ass hole. Narrative has nothing to do with.

[Jack Lambert]

Jack....I think I was there about the same time as you. I was there fall of 61 through spring of 65. Had a loan each year.

Not quite that old. In the 80's and 90's college cost was pretty reasonable. It has gotten out of control now.

[mstatefan91]

You are the only one who is thinking that way. Post like yours use to not be allowed on this board but posters like you have made this place like SPS.

Posts like this have been on this board as long as I've been on this board.. Not defending anyone here..

[AROB44]

Not quite that old. In the 80's and 90's college cost was pretty reasonable. It has gotten out of control now.

Sorry....my bad. That's what happens when you assume.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I'm pretty sure that this is the single most ignorant post I've seen on any message board. My god man, are you so naive to think that all of these kids actually belong in a college situation in the first place? Well guess what they don't and a the money making system that's in place is the only reason a bunch of theses kids are there at all. The entire thing is a shell game for your entertainment.

I'm going to side with Jack here. I'm failing to see what was wrong with it. It's a legit question. Why are these athletes being advised to take a freaking Chem course? Instead of answering the question, you went straight personal attack for some reason. I've read the whole thread and still can't figure what set you off.

Also, I agree with every post Dan has made in this thread. While college isn't for everyone, increasing the requirement from 12 to 15 isn't right. I would suspect that it helps the school make more money, otherwise why else do it?

[RocketDawg]

Why in the hell are football players taking courses they can't pass on their own? If it is part of your major and you are having to take it and you need help you probably in the wrong major.

Good question, but I assume the course they took was just a survey course, just top level stuff. Why they'd take a difficult subject and assume that a survey course would be easy is questionable. Surely there were more brainless things they could have taken. Since at least 11 athletes took the course, there must have been some encouragement from some source for them to take it.

[dantheman4248]

Good question, but I assume the course they took was just a survey course, just top level stuff. Why they'd take a difficult subject and assume that a survey course would be easy is questionable. Surely there were more brainless things they could have taken. Since at least 11 athletes took the course, there must have been some encouragement from some source for them to take it.

It's literally all online and no lockdown browser so you can even use the same computer to copy/paste questions into google and get answers. It's a known easy 3 hr credit. 0 classroom attendance. Max 30 minutes / wk googling answers to hw / exam.

[RocketDawg]

Why in the hell are football players taking courses they can't pass on their own? If it is part of your major and you are having to take it and you need help you probably in the wrong major.

Good question, but I assume the course they took was just a survey course, just top level stuff. Why they'd take a difficult subject and assume that a survey course would be easy is questionable. Surely there were more brainless things they could have taken. Since at least 11 athletes took the course, there must have been some encouragement from some source for them to take it.

[dawgs]

Good question, but I assume the course they took was just a survey course, just top level stuff. Why they'd take a difficult subject and assume that a survey course would be easy is questionable. Surely there were more brainless things they could have taken. Since at least 11 athletes took the course, there must have been some encouragement from some source for them to take it.

I don't think the course was too hard for them, they just didn't wanna put in the minimal amount of effort to pass it.

[dantheman4248]

You have your degree (or degrees?). That may be part of why you're not poor anymore. Yet if young people are encouraged to do only the minimum as they work toward a goal, in many cases they will not reach that goal. Failure is much more painful than an extra few hours of studying every week.

It's not about being encouraged. It's about not being able to afford cost of living without a job and only being able to get minimum wage / server type jobs that are willing to work around school schedule while in town while still giving you enough hours / compensation to float. Working a server job in Starkville gave me way more motivation / encouragement than any class I took while in school.

You keep looking at it like financial aid is this cure-all for their problems and if they get it they get have all their bills paid. The point is that this is not the case. This generally just supplements the tuition costs. You have to receive special scholarships (which hit a cap most times) to get the full "cost of living" financial aid reimbursement. And sometimes with how family / bills are, that CoL cap isn't enough. That's life for poor people. Adding the extra 3 hr class to an already tight workload is just insulting and cruel. It's a microcosm of this country's issue as a whole where it's all "me me me" and no one actually cares for the poor as a general consensus. Even though 99% of us are poor relative to what the average should be if everyone was even.

When your poor... you already gotta do more than everyone else to keep yourself afloat in college at 12 vs them taking 12 hours. Why stick that stipulation of 3 more hours on them. That's the issue.

[dawgs]

W

Adding the extra 3 hr class to an already tight workload is just insulting and cruel. It's a microcosm of this country's issue as a whole where it's all "me me me" and no one actually cares for the poor as a general consensus.

It's a failure to display empathy for anyone from different circumstances than themselves, and when the hardships are explained, instead of allowing it to change the way one thinks about an issue, they'll tend to just say "life's not fair" or "I worked hard and you can too" or some other meaningless comment that shows how little the understand or care to understand the actual issue at hand. Getting harder and harder for me to spot actual ignorance vs. willful ignorance.