JaVonta Payton

[ShotgunDawg]

Boy, from every rumor or write up about practice, it sounds like we got the second coming of Jerry Rice on this team in the form of JaVonta Payton.

Talk about a guy we didn't expect anything from that appears poised to make an impact.

[Cooterpoot]

Same was said about Austin Williams last year. Kid couldn’t start for his Juco team. I’ll classify this one as “I’ll believe it when I see it in a game vs quality competition “.

[Dawgology]

Boy, from every rumor or write up about practice, it sounds like we got the second coming of Jerry Rice on this team in the form of JaVonta Payton.

Talk about a guy we didn't expect anything from that appears poised to make an impact.

Amazing what a QB that can pass can do for WR?s.

[Doggie_Style]

Same was said about Austin Williams last year. Kid couldn’t start for his Juco team. I’ll classify this one as “I’ll believe it when I see it in a game vs quality competition “.

Same here....the fact that he showed up so late to campus will come back to haunt him when it is game time. It takes more than a month to really understand the playbook. That being said I would gladly eat crow.

[msstate7]

Vegas should change our win o/u to 11 if they pay attention to practice reports... Payton is jerry rice, Stevens is an AA, Leo is just as good as a 1st team all sec preseason guy, and our defense won't skip a beat from last year. We stacked... Bama fricked

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Same was said about Austin Williams last year. Kid couldn?t start for his Juco team. I?ll classify this one as ?I?ll believe it when I see it in a game vs quality competition ?.

This^^

[ShotgunDawg]

Same was said about Austin Williams last year. Kid couldn’t start for his Juco team. I’ll classify this one as “I’ll believe it when I see it in a game vs quality competition “.

95% agree. However, it's clear that Payton is way more athletic and explosive on video than Williams. So I'll hold out some hope that this is legit.

[TrapGame]

They say some of the catches JP has made in practice are absolutely freakish. I really hope this translates to actual games.

[Covercorner2]

95% agree. However, it's clear that Payton is way more athletic and explosive on video than Williams. So I'll hold out some hope that this is legit.

Payton is also a coach's son, so that helps with the learning curve, route running, etc., plus he's a JUCO guy. Austin Williams was not.

[msstate7]

Payton is also a coach's son, so that helps with the learning curve, route running, etc., plus he's a JUCO guy. Austin Williams was not.

Wasn't Guidry getting similar hype last offseason or was that just the board here?

[thf24]

Wasn't Guidry getting similar hype last offseason or was that just the board here?

I think Steve said at one point that he was catching anything in his airspace, but then he spent most of the rest of camp in a yellow jersey so I think most of the raving was just hopeful speculation past that point.

[HoopsDawg]

Wasn't Guidry getting similar hype last offseason or was that just the board here?

Don't forget Reggie Todd.

[msstate7]

I challenge any sec team to a practice match

Lol

[StarkVegasSteve]

Payton is a different cat. He's not the typical prim donna you see with WR nowadays. He's a coaches son and was basically placed at NWCC by OM. He had a great Freshman year. They lost a lot off their 17 team and some very good slot receivers. Teams were able to key more on Payton last year. He still had a ok year though.

Now saying all that, you can't ever tell how these JUCO guys will react when the lights get bright, but FWIW I was hearing as far back as June that Payton was going to be our best receiver this year.

[Covercorner2]

Wasn't Guidry getting similar hype last offseason or was that just the board here?

Let's not act like Guidry had a terrible season. He averaged 23 yards a catch. Given more opportunities (he only caught 19 balls last year), he would've had a pretty good year. Honestly if Payton has a year like that and Guidry and Mitchell improve production from last year I would take that in a heartbeat.

Reggie Todd was kicked off the team before his sophomore season. Another bad example.

[msstate7]

Let's not act like Guidry had a terrible season. He averaged 23 yards a catch. Given more opportunities (he only caught 19 balls last year), he would've had a pretty good year. Honestly if Payton has a year like that and Guidry and Mitchell improve production from last year I would take that in a heartbeat.

Reggie Todd was kicked off the team before his sophomore season. Another bad example.
You're right... he was a super stud. Jeudy without tua. Seriously though, he dropped almost the exact number he caught

[Covercorner2]

You're right... he was a super stud. Jeudy without tua. Seriously though, he dropped almost the exact number he caught

I don't think anyone has called Payton a "super stud," whatever TF that is, but by all means keep on keeping on, bro.

You do realize the pass Guidry "dropped" in the Outback Bowl was tipped, right?

[msudawglb]

They say some of the catches JP has made in practice are absolutely freakish. I really hope this translates to actual games.

If you?ve spent time watching our WR?s the past few years, ?freakish? may mean he is actually catching the ball when it hits him in his hands.

[Tbonewannabe]

Don't forget Reggie Todd.

Todd did well as young as he was. It isn't like he left the team for football reasons.

[Tbonewannabe]

I don't think anyone has called Payton a "super stud," whatever TF that is, but by all means keep on keeping on, bro.

You do realize the pass Guidry "dropped" in the Outback Bowl was tipped, right?

Guidry still should have caught it since it hit him in the chest. Guidry has the athleticism to get open regularly but didn't show he could consistently catch the ball. I will say that even if we are doing 7 v 7, our DBs are damn good so if the WRs look even average SEC then they should look average against everybody including Bama.

[TrapGame]

If you?ve spent time watching our WR?s the past few years, ?freakish? may mean he is actually catching the ball when it hits him in his hands.

Good point. Actually catching the ball would be freakish at this point.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I don't think anyone is calling for an all SEC season for JaVonta. He has however had a very good start to camp. I can't speak for the OP but every time someone is mentioned in a positive light that doesn't mean they're being called a savior or about to revolutionize the position. I don't think JaVonta starts but if he can be a very nice rotation piece & catch the balls thrown his way then that's a positive.

Now msstate7 will tell me I just called the kid a mix of AB, Nuk, & OBJ & if he doesn't catch 70 passes for 1200yds he's a bust.

[Ari Gold]

Hopefully someone will post news about a player not having a good camp so some on here can feel better..

With the WR core they have ALL taken to Coach Johnson much better than they did with Coach Getsy. This was told to me by a staff member
The WR all look the part and pass the eye test .. I think we are all goin to be pleasantly surprised with this group
Also it makes a huge difference with a QB that can get the ball to guys, make the right reads, and looks to pass first run second

I actually got to a practice this week .. this years #7 is a TRUE Qb.
I like freshman RB Witherspoon I’m not sure he would redshirt even if Walker made it here .
TEs are big , and look good .Wouldn’t be shocked if at times this year we see 2 TEs in the game. ( with one being in the slot or out wide)
Jones and Spivey will both have some impact for sure
Gibson and Hill are going to be a very good 1/2 punch .. I think this duo Combined might push the 2k mark
The OL is 2 deep and not much drop off from 1s and 2s and we have guys that can shuffle around different positions which is always a plus
No surprise DT is a concern for sure . Depth is the issue. Going to have to have a couple of talented but young guys grow up sooner than later, good thing is this the DEs are good and the back 7 are very good

Excited to see the product. It’s setting up to be a fun year.. just have to stay lucky on the injury front

This staff gets after it.. love the energy and I saw more congrats and praise of players from Coach Marcus Johnson with the OL in 2 hours than I did in the 9 years I watch some practices with Hev... and I never heard Lazy ****er or sack of shit one time ...

[Covercorner2]

Hopefully someone will post news about a player not having a good camp so some on here can feel better..

With the WR core they have ALL taken to Coach Johnson much better than they did with Coach Getsy. This was told to me by a staff member
The WR all look the part and pass the eye test .. I think we are all goin to be pleasantly surprised with this group
Also it makes a huge difference with a QB that can get the ball to guys, make the right reads, and looks to pass first run second

I actually got to a practice this week .. this years #7 is a TRUE Qb.
I like freshman RB Witherspoon I?m not sure he would redshirt even if Walker made it here .
TEs are big , and look good .Wouldn?t be shocked if at times this year we see 2 TEs in the game. ( with one being in the slot or out wide)
Jones and Spivey will both have some impact for sure
Gibson and Hill are going to be a very good 1/2 punch .. I think this duo Combined might push the 2k mark
The OL is 2 deep and not much drop off from 1s and 2s and we have guys that can shuffle around different positions which is always a plus
No surprise DT is a concern for sure . Depth is the issue. Going to have to have a couple of talented but young guys grow up sooner than later, good thing is this the DEs are good and the back 7 are very good

Excited to see the product. It?s setting up to be a fun year.. just have to stay lucky on the injury front

This staff gets after it.. love the energy and I saw more congrats and praise of players from Coach Marcus Johnson with the OL in 2 hours than I did in the 9 years I watch some practices with Hev... and I never heard Lazy ****er or sack of shit one time ...

Good stuff. Who are the 3-4 best looking DTs we have right now? Lovett, Autry, and Crumedy? I guess I am hoping 1-2 other guys surface...

[Cooterpoot]

Look, talent-wise, our WR corp is bottom part of the SEC. Not one single proven SEC WR on the team. So, they’ve got to to prove in on the field before I back off that. The one plus is a legit WR coach, finally, after years of lazy BS from Gonzo. Last year was a guy that hated his job. We wont be worse. Question is, how much better can we be?

[ShotgunDawg]

Look, talent-wise, our WR corp is bottom part of the SEC. Not one single proven SEC WR on the team. So, they’ve got to to prove in on the field before I back off that.

That’s cheating. The point is to prognosticate. Once they do it, it’s obvious

[msstate7]

I don't think anyone is calling for an all SEC season for JaVonta. He has however had a very good start to camp. I can't speak for the OP but every time someone is mentioned in a positive light that doesn't mean they're being called a savior or about to revolutionize the position. I don't think JaVonta starts but if he can be a very nice rotation piece & catch the balls thrown his way then that's a positive.

Now msstate7 will tell me I just called the kid a mix of AB, Nuk, & OBJ & if he doesn't catch 70 passes for 1200yds he's a bust.

That's ridiculous. My expectations for players are built in reality. I don't call kids busts or saviors based on practice reports. Can you come up with one example of a player I called a bust based on stupid high expectations?

[Covercorner2]

That's ridiculous. My expectations for players are built in reality. I don't call kids busts or saviors based on practice reports. Can you come up with one example of a player I called a bust based on stupid high expectations?

"super stud"

[msstate7]

"super stud"

What were my next 2 words after that... here they are "seriously though". I was playing. Guidry is depth at most sec schools, not a starter

[Ari Gold]

Look, talent-wise, our WR corp is bottom part of the SEC. Not one single proven SEC WR on the team. So, they’ve got to to prove in on the field before I back off that. The one plus is a legit WR coach, finally, after years of lazy BS from Gonzo. Last year was a guy that hated his job. We wont be worse. Question is, how much better can we be?

When was the last time we had a WR drafted? So the bar hasn’t been set very high.
Not saying this group is top 5 or even top 10 in the SEC and again when in the past have we been ?

Guidry, Mitchell, Zuber, Thomas.. That’s a good core 4 going into the year. Let’s see how they do.

[Ari Gold]

What were my next 2 words after that... here they are "seriously though". I was playing. Guidry is depth at most sec schools, not a starter


I bet Guidry gets his name called in April.. when is the last time that happened here... ??

[msstate7]

I bet Guidry gets his name called in April.. when is the last time that happened here... ??

What's the stakes?

[Johnson85]

I don't think anyone has called Payton a "super stud," whatever TF that is, but by all means keep on keeping on, bro.

You do realize the pass Guidry "dropped" in the Outback Bowl was tipped, right?

That was not nearly the only pass he dropped.

Against Power 5 competition (so 8 SEC games, KSU, and IOWA), Guidry caught 14 passes, so 1.4 passes per game, and 333 yards, so 33.3 yds per game.

And there was no noticeable trend over the course of the year, so it's not like he adjusted from JUCO and then started playing really well.

That's just not a good year and while he certainly wasn't helped by our QB play, what he did with the targets he received wasn't encouraging.

[Covercorner2]

That was not nearly the only pass he dropped.

Against Power 5 competition (so 8 SEC games, KSU, and IOWA), Guidry caught 14 passes, so 1.4 passes per game, and 333 yards, so 33.3 yds per game.

And there was no noticeable trend over the course of the year, so it's not like he adjusted from JUCO and then started playing really well.

That's just not a good year and while he certainly wasn't helped by our QB play, what he did with the targets he received wasn't encouraging.

"What he did with the targets he received wasn't encouraging."

He averaged 23 yards a catch. That would've led the SEC if he had more catches. The issue with that is A) we threw the ball 12th most in the SEC last year, and B) we had Nick Fitzgerald throwing the ball when we did throw.

IF he just had FIVE more catches at that rate he would have had almost 600 yards in his first year of SEC ball...

[Ari Gold]

What's the stakes?

How about just root for the kid to have a big year..

[Johnson85]

Todd did well as young as he was. It isn't like he left the team for football reasons.

What is Todd doing now? Was he prohibited from returning to MSU? Or was he just not competitive compared to what we were bringing in?

[msstate7]

"What he did with the targets he received wasn't encouraging."

He averaged 23 yards a catch. That would've led the SEC if he had more catches. The issue with that is A) we threw the ball 12th most in the SEC last year, and B) we had Nick Fitzgerald throwing the ball when we did throw.

IF he just had FIVE more catches at that rate he would have had almost 600 yards in his first year of SEC ball...

Ross caught 72 from fitz. Gray 42 from fitz. Maybe the simplest explanation is the best answer... our WRs just weren't any good

[msstate7]

How about just root for the kid to have a big year..

I will.

[Tbonewannabe]

What is Todd doing now? Was he prohibited from returning to MSU? Or was he just not competitive compared to what we were bringing in?

I believe there was an academic issue that would not allow him to be a student at MSU. I don't know the exact details which a random person shouldn't but he went to Juco and I believe ended up at Troy.

[Johnson85]

"What he did with the targets he received wasn't encouraging."

He averaged 23 yards a catch. That would've led the SEC if he had more catches. The issue with that is A) we threw the ball 12th most in the SEC last year, and B) we had Nick Fitzgerald throwing the ball when we did throw.

IF he just had FIVE more catches at that rate he would have had almost 600 yards in his first year of SEC ball...

If he had caught the balls that he should have, he probably would have had five more catches at that rate. Again, I said the problem was what he did with his targets, not how successful we were when he actually caught the ball. He is a big play threat, which is great, but he wasn't in the top 47 players in the SEC as far as number of receptions in 2019 (and 47 was as long as the list I could find went; not sure how much further down he would ahve been) and then there are drops on top of that. Certainly a lot of it was not his fault and probably had a lot to do with the passing offense just being subpar overall, but I dont't hink people should be expecting for the light to turn on this year. Hopefully it turns out I'm wrong because it certainly looks like he could be a big time wide receiver. It's just his actual production, at JUCO and the SEC level, has not been very promising so far.

[msbulldog]

I've seen a few short video's of Payton. He high points the ball very well all the passes sailed on him (probably KT throwing) and he went up and got them.

[Ari Gold]

Good stuff. Who are the 3-4 best looking DTs we have right now? Lovett, Autry, and Crumedy? I guess I am hoping 1-2 other guys surface...

Hard to tell right now.. I did see Rivers and Adams in the backfield a lot..

[GreenheadDawg]

We hear the same shit every year. Until he does it in SEC play it doesn?t matter. Guidry was an all-star in practice last year.

[HoopsDawg]

We hear the same shit every year. Until he does it in SEC play it doesn?t matter. Guidry was an all-star in practice last year.

Here's my extremely positive spin on our WR's: It usually takes Juco guys a year to adjust and they are much better their 2nd year. That catch and run Guidry had against A&M was special. There is some take it to the house talent there.

Zuber's presence immediately upgrades the entire corp.

And Payton was a big time receiver his freshman year at Juco. After seeing Juco life on Last chance U, I can see how one could digress in that environment.

And Mitchell has some ability. He was extremely raw and probably lacked confidence. Everyone says he has looked much more comfortable this year.

[Covercorner2]

Ross caught 72 from fitz. Gray 42 from fitz. Maybe the simplest explanation is the best answer... our WRs just weren't any good

... and we threw the ball EIGHTY EIGHT more times that year. Apples meet oranges....

[Covercorner2]

If he had caught the balls that he should have, he probably would have had five more catches at that rate. Again, I said the problem was what he did with his targets, not how successful we were when he actually caught the ball. He is a big play threat, which is great, but he wasn't in the top 47 players in the SEC as far as number of receptions in 2019 (and 47 was as long as the list I could find went; not sure how much further down he would ahve been) and then there are drops on top of that. Certainly a lot of it was not his fault and probably had a lot to do with the passing offense just being subpar overall, but I dont't hink people should be expecting for the light to turn on this year. Hopefully it turns out I'm wrong because it certainly looks like he could be a big time wide receiver. It's just his actual production, at JUCO and the SEC level, has not been very promising so far.

What would his #s have been with 20, hell even 10-15, more targets? Again its tough to put up #s when you aren't thrown the ball and the guy throwing the ball has his career worst year passing.

[WesternSkyDawg]

Here's my extremely positive spin on our WR's: It usually takes Juco guys a year to adjust and they are much better their 2nd year.

To your point, here’s the line from another Juco WR, Kelvin Love:

(Games, catches, yards, avg, td’s)

12 9 266 29.6 2
11 43 834 19.4 3

[msstate7]

... and we threw the ball EIGHTY EIGHT more times that year. Apples meet oranges....

Here I'll put them on equal footing...

Ross caught 72 passes in 2016 when we attempted 411 passes = 17.5% of passes that year were a completion to Ross.

Guidry caught 19 passes in 2018 when we attempted 323 passes = 5.9% of passes last year were a completion to Guidry.

Had we attempted 88 more passes, he would've caught 24 passes at his rate.

But I thought you blamed fitz for Guidry production. Saying we attempted 88 less passes seems to indicate you blame Moorhead. We will never run the same amount of plays under Moorhead bc he likes a slow pace. Nevertheless, when fitz had a legit target, he got him the ball... Ross in 2016 shows that

[Todd4State]

Here I'll put them on equal footing...

Ross caught 72 passes in 2016 when we attempted 411 passes = 17.5% of passes that year were a completion to Ross.

Guidry caught 19 passes in 2018 when we attempted 323 passes = 5.9% of passes last year were a completion to Guidry.

Had we attempted 88 more passes, he would've caught 24 passes at his rate.

But I thought you blamed fitz for Guidry production. Saying we attempted 88 less passes seems to indicate you blame Moorhead. We will never run the same amount of plays under Moorhead bc he likes a slow pace. Nevertheless, when fitz had a legit target, he got him the ball... Ross in 2016 shows that

Ross also had a significant decline after Dak left. Just saying. Because I know you won't.

[Tbonewannabe]

Here I'll put them on equal footing...

Ross caught 72 passes in 2016 when we attempted 411 passes = 17.5% of passes that year were a completion to Ross.

Guidry caught 19 passes in 2018 when we attempted 323 passes = 5.9% of passes last year were a completion to Guidry.

Had we attempted 88 more passes, he would've caught 24 passes at his rate.

But I thought you blamed fitz for Guidry production. Saying we attempted 88 less passes seems to indicate you blame Moorhead. We will never run the same amount of plays under Moorhead bc he likes a slow pace. Nevertheless, when fitz had a legit target, he got him the ball... Ross in 2016 shows that

Does he always run the offense that slow? We did have one of our better years with yards per play but I am not sure how much those numbers are inflated by beating the hell out of some shitty defenses. Of course I guess the opposite is true from playing a bunch of top 20 defenses also.

[Todd4State]

Here's my extremely positive spin on our WR's: It usually takes Juco guys a year to adjust and they are much better their 2nd year. That catch and run Guidry had against A&M was special. There is some take it to the house talent there.

Zuber's presence immediately upgrades the entire corp.

And Payton was a big time receiver his freshman year at Juco. After seeing Juco life on Last chance U, I can see how one could digress in that environment.

And Mitchell has some ability. He was extremely raw and probably lacked confidence. Everyone says he has looked much more comfortable this year.


WR play in high school and JUCO is also very dependent on the QB and the scheme. Because of that you can't really judge a WR solely off of stats. It's more about skill set and apparently Payton has that plus he apparently has a high work ethic to go along with that.

[msstate7]

Ross also had a significant decline after Dak left. Just saying. Because I know you won't.

Have I ever insinuated that fitz and dak are close to equal? If you got that impression, you're wrong.

The significant decline is debatable though... Ross caught 12 tds in 2016 and 5 in 2015. Catches were down, 88 in '15 to 72 in '16. Yds were down in 2016, but yds/catch were up.

[Covercorner2]

Here I'll put them on equal footing...

Ross caught 72 passes in 2016 when we attempted 411 passes = 17.5% of passes that year were a completion to Ross.

Guidry caught 19 passes in 2018 when we attempted 323 passes = 5.9% of passes last year were a completion to Guidry.

Had we attempted 88 more passes, he would've caught 24 passes at his rate.

But I thought you blamed fitz for Guidry production. Saying we attempted 88 less passes seems to indicate you blame Moorhead. We will never run the same amount of plays under Moorhead bc he likes a slow pace. Nevertheless, when fitz had a legit target, he got him the ball... Ross in 2016 shows that

Again, if Guidry would have caught 24 passes he would have almost had 600 yards. Not bad for a first year JUCO guy.

We threw the ball just about as much in Mullen's last year as Moorhead's first year. I am not blaming Moorhead. I am blaming our offensive philosophy and QB last year, which by all indications should change into more favorable towards the passing game this year. We may not run as many plays this year as we did in 2016, but we should definitely throw the ball a lot more this year than we did last.

Lastly, we are comparing a first year JUCO guy with Fred Ross's senior year.

[RezDog7]

Here I'll put them on equal footing...

Ross caught 72 passes in 2016 when we attempted 411 passes = 17.5% of passes that year were a completion to Ross.

Guidry caught 19 passes in 2018 when we attempted 323 passes = 5.9% of passes last year were a completion to Guidry.

Had we attempted 88 more passes, he would've caught 24 passes at his rate.

But I thought you blamed fitz for Guidry production. Saying we attempted 88 less passes seems to indicate you blame Moorhead. We will never run the same amount of plays under Moorhead bc he likes a slow pace. Nevertheless, when fitz had a legit target, he got him the ball... Ross in 2016 shows that

I bet you are absolutely miserable to hang out with. If I poured water on your head you'd call it piss. Have you ever been happy about anything MSU related? I mean, we are talking about a guy having a nice summer camp and you start another one of your defeatist diatribes. Maybe you should just cheer for Bama.

[Cooterpoot]

WR play in high school and JUCO is also very dependent on the QB and the scheme. Because of that you can't really judge a WR solely off of stats. It's more about skill set and apparently Payton has that plus he apparently has a high work ethic to go along with that.

He wasn’t even starting at Juco. Had zero to do with QB play.

[msstate7]

Does he always run the offense that slow? We did have one of our better years with yards per play but I am not sure how much those numbers are inflated by beating the hell out of some shitty defenses. Of course I guess the opposite is true from playing a bunch of top 20 defenses also.

2016 Psu total plays/state: 931 (14 games)/943
2017: 909/987

[msstate7]

I bet you are absolutely miserable to hang out with. If I poured water on your head you'd call it piss. Have you ever been happy about anything MSU related? I mean, we are talking about a guy having a nice summer camp and you start another one of your defeatist diatribes. Maybe you should just cheer for Bama.

What an interesting comment to my post. Thanks for adding to the discussion

[msstate7]

He wasn’t even starting at Juco. Had zero to do with QB play.

I bet you are absolutely miserable to hang out with. If I poured water on your head you'd call it piss. Have you ever been happy about anything MSU related? I mean, we are talking about a guy having a nice summer camp and you start another one of your defeatist diatribes. Maybe you should just cheer for Bama.


^^^
Took care of it for you Rez

[Pipedream]

Ross also had a significant decline after Dak left. Just saying. Because I know you won't.

LOL, I don't have a horse in this race. Frankly, anointing anyone of our receiver "Jerry Rice" is ridiculous, but it is nice to hear a little positive buzz on them and the QB will be better throwing, BUT

this Ross take is flat out false. Check the stats.

Ross in 15 w/ senior Dak had 88 for 1007 11.4 ypc 5 TDs on a pass happy offense
Ross in 16 w/ sophomore Fitz had 72 for 917 12.7 pyc (less catches and yards, but more efficient) to go along with 12(!) TDs in a run first offense.

Wouldn't call that "significant decline". One could argue he had a better season because he was the featured guy in 16 whereas he was sharing shine with Bear in 15.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I notice this trend a lot with 7. every thread goes one of 2 ways:

1) 7 makes a controversial statement, gets called out for it, and he admits he's an idiot and backs off.

2) 7 makes a controversial comment, gets called out for it, and he backs up his stance with facts and stats. Everyone else tries to disprove him, and then when they have nothing else he hasn't disprove with stats they call him a miserable SOB as 7 smells blood in the water and starts responding even faster to his incorrect critics.

The fact is 7 is a glass half empty kind of guy. He's also logical, willing to look up stats, and doesn't give a crap if the truth rains on other's parade. The sunshine pumpers, optimists, or statistically incorrect hate him for it. Personally, I'm not as negative as him but I appreciate the actual numbers he bases his arguments on, and that he generally admits when he's being an idiot. I value that way more than just "Guidry/Payton/Zuber/Austin Williams will explode this year!" statements with no evidence to support it. Generally, the reason people get pissed at 7 is that he popped their bubble of irrationally positive opinions. You do you 7, I'll get the popcorn and pull up a chair

[Gutter Cobreh]

Here I'll put them on equal footing...

Ross caught 72 passes in 2016 when we attempted 411 passes = 17.5% of passes that year were a completion to Ross.

Guidry caught 19 passes in 2018 when we attempted 323 passes = 5.9% of passes last year were a completion to Guidry.

Had we attempted 88 more passes, he would've caught 24 passes at his rate.

But I thought you blamed fitz for Guidry production. Saying we attempted 88 less passes seems to indicate you blame Moorhead. We will never run the same amount of plays under Moorhead bc he likes a slow pace. Nevertheless, when fitz had a legit target, he got him the ball... Ross in 2016 shows that

How many of Ross' catches were beyond 5 yds? Mullen loves some bubble screens to try and get the ball out on the boundary.

The type of passing philosophy could have played a part in your stats. Moorhead seems to lean more on vertical passing, while Mullen incorporates more of a lateral passing attack (even Dak had issues with touch on the long pass while he was here). This, to me, is why we struggled more than we expected last year - Fitz couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently on passes beyond 10 yards.

[msstate7]

How many of Ross' catches were beyond 5 yds? Mullen loves some bubble screens to try and get the ball out on the boundary.

The type of passing philosophy could have played a part in your stats. Moorhead seems to lean more on vertical passing, while Mullen incorporates more of a lateral passing attack (even Dak had issues with touch on the long pass while he was here). This, to me, is why we struggled more than we expected last year - Fitz couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently on passes beyond 10 yards.

Yds/completion
2016: state 11.85, psu 16.15
2017: state 11.36, psu 12.53

They obviously got more yds/comp, but how much is unclear bc of the huge difference they had from 2016 to 2017.

[MrKotter]

I bet you are absolutely miserable to hang out with. If I poured water on your head you'd call it piss. Have you ever been happy about anything MSU related? I mean, we are talking about a guy having a nice summer camp and you start another one of your defeatist diatribes. Maybe you should just cheer for Bama.
Mstate7 is just an idiot that follows c34?s lead on everything. Don?t let him get under your skin. He?s a clueless moron

[msstate7]

Mstate7 is just an idiot that follows c34?s lead on everything. Don?t let him get under your skin. He?s a clueless moron

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to C34. He and I butted heads almost daily.

[TrapGame]

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to C34. He and I butted heads almost daily.

I guess he got you confused with Preacher.

You can be a prick but sometimes you do now what you're talking about.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Yds/completion
2016: state 11.85, psu 16.15
2017: state 11.36, psu 12.53

They obviously got more yds/comp, but how much is unclear bc of the huge difference they had from 2016 to 2017.

Don't move the goalpost in the debate. The underlying conversation centered around the number of catches Guidry had and his production versus Ross.

The data supports that Moorhead plays a more vertical game than Mullen's system does, so essentially the number of catches should not be used when comparing the two receivers.

[msstate7]

Don't move the goalpost in the debate. The underlying conversation centered around the number of catches Guidry had and his production versus Ross.

The data supports that Moorhead plays a more vertical game than Mullen's system does, so essentially the number of catches should not be used when comparing the two receivers.

Wait, are your seriously trying to say Guidry was even close to as productive as Ross?

[Jarius]

Don't move the goalpost in the debate. The underlying conversation centered around the number of catches Guidry had and his production versus Ross.

The data supports that Moorhead plays a more vertical game than Mullen's system does, so essentially the number of catches should not be used when comparing the two receivers.

Fred Ross had 27 catches for 405 yards against Samford, UMASS, and Arkansas. All 3 complete garbage defenses that the 2018 team would not get to play more than a half against, but Fred had to play the entire game because the 2016 MSU team was dog shit. Fred is a better receiver than Guidry, but his stats were inflated in 16. The 16 year actually hurt his draft stock because of his drops.

[msstate7]

Fred Ross had 27 catches for 405 yards against Samford, UMASS, and Arkansas. All 3 complete garbage defenses that the 2018 team would not get to play more than a half against, but Fred had to play the entire game because the 2016 MSU team was dog shit. Fred is a better receiver than Guidry, but his stats were inflated in 16. The 16 year actually hurt his draft stock because of his drops.
Fine, let's throw out all OOC stats for Ross in 2016 and use just sec only games...
40 catches 537 yds 9 td

Ross caught at least 1 td in every sec game, but Bama. Y'all really wanna compare these 2?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

He wasn?t even starting at Juco. Had zero to do with QB play.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info from but JaVonta started every game last year except the Jones Co game.

[Jarius]

Fine, let's throw out all OOC stats for Ross in 2016 and use just sec only games...
40 catches 537 yds 9 td

Ross caught at least 1 td in every sec game, but Bama. Y'all really wanna compare these 2?

I do not want to compare the 2. Ross is better. He’s not a lot better with a quarterback that can throw the ball down field in this offense though. If Fitz would have been throwing to Ross in a new offense that did not fit his skill set, Fred would have had significantly lower numbers.

[RezDog7]

I notice this trend a lot with 7. every thread goes one of 2 ways:

1) 7 makes a controversial statement, gets called out for it, and he admits he's an idiot and backs off.

2) 7 makes a controversial comment, gets called out for it, and he backs up his stance with facts and stats. Everyone else tries to disprove him, and then when they have nothing else he hasn't disprove with stats they call him a miserable SOB as 7 smells blood in the water and starts responding even faster to his incorrect critics.

The fact is 7 is a glass half empty kind of guy. He's also logical, willing to look up stats, and doesn't give a crap if the truth rains on other's parade. The sunshine pumpers, optimists, or statistically incorrect hate him for it. Personally, I'm not as negative as him but I appreciate the actual numbers he bases his arguments on, and that he generally admits when he's being an idiot. I value that way more than just "Guidry/Payton/Zuber/Austin Williams will explode this year!" statements with no evidence to support it. Generally, the reason people get pissed at 7 is that he popped their bubble of irrationally positive opinions. You do you 7, I'll get the popcorn and pull up a chair

I don't give a damn what statistics he uses, the point is he's negative about everything MSU. The OP was about some positives on a guy in summer camp. I'm just glad to hear some positives, even if it doesn't translate to this magical undefeated season that will actually garner some attaboys from 7. It doesn't have to be doom and gloom on every ****ing post.

[msstate7]

I don't give a damn what statistics he uses, the point is he's negative about everything MSU. The OP was about some positives on a guy in summer camp. I'm just glad to hear some positives, even if it doesn't translate to this magical undefeated season that will actually garner some attaboys from 7. It doesn't have to be doom and gloom on every ****ing post.

Stats and data be damn... I just wanna hear what I wanna hear!

[RezDog7]

Vegas should change our win o/u to 11 if they pay attention to practice reports... Payton is jerry rice, Stevens is an AA, Leo is just as good as a 1st team all sec preseason guy, and our defense won't skip a beat from last year. We stacked... Bama fricked

Na bruh, you started this dumb ass shit without statistics.

[msstate7]

Na bruh, you started this dumb ass shit without statistics.

When OP put Payton in the same sentence with jerry rice I thought this was a joke thread. The above post is what you would believe though if you didn't know any better and just read the practice reports. Hell, I read earlier today an Arkansas practice report where they seem primed to win big time this year. Practice reports are garbage for the most part

[Tbonewannabe]

2016 Psu total plays/state: 931 (14 games)/943
2017: 909/987

One interesting about looking at offense at per play and by plays and yards, 2018 is the 3rd highest offense per play in the last decade. Only 2014 and 2015 were higher for obvious reasons. Oddly enough Moorhead's offense scored around what Mullen's offense's scored per game also. Last year was 28.5 and most of Mullen's were usually around 30 points per game other than 2014 and 2015. We also probably had our 2nd or 3rd hardest schedule last year as well.

Edited to add: Mullen's worst years was his 1st year in 2009 25.6 and his 3rd 25.3.

[Todd4State]

Have I ever insinuated that fitz and dak are close to equal? If you got that impression, you're wrong.

The significant decline is debatable though... Ross caught 12 tds in 2016 and 5 in 2015. Catches were down, 88 in '15 to 72 in '16. Yds were down in 2016, but yds/catch were up.

No- my point is Fitz hurt our receivers by making them look bad at times. It goes back to my point about how the QB has an influence over WR stats. And yes- I would say that going from draft prospect to free agent with fewer catches and more drops- and it's interesting that the drops occurred when we changed QB's- is a significant decline.

[Todd4State]

One interesting about looking at offense at per play and by plays and yards, 2018 is the 3rd highest offense per play in the last decade. Only 2014 and 2015 were higher for obvious reasons. Oddly enough Moorhead's offense scored around what Mullen's offense's scored per game also. Last year was 28.5 and most of Mullen's were usually around 30 points per game other than 2014 and 2015. We also probably had our 2nd or 3rd hardest schedule last year as well.

Edited to add: Mullen's worst years was his 1st year in 2009 25.6 and his 3rd 25.3.

Similar types of players = similar types of production. I think as we continue to recruit better our statistics more than likely will improve.

[Percho]

I notice this trend a lot with 7. every thread goes one of 2 ways:

1) 7 makes a controversial statement, gets called out for it, and he admits he's an idiot and backs off.

2) 7 makes a controversial comment, gets called out for it, and he backs up his stance with facts and stats. Everyone else tries to disprove him, and then when they have nothing else he hasn't disprove with stats they call him a miserable SOB as 7 smells blood in the water and starts responding even faster to his incorrect critics.

The fact is 7 is a glass half empty kind of guy. He's also logical, willing to look up stats, and doesn't give a crap if the truth rains on other's parade. The sunshine pumpers, optimists, or statistically incorrect hate him for it. Personally, I'm not as negative as him but I appreciate the actual numbers he bases his arguments on, and that he generally admits when he's being an idiot. I value that way more than just "Guidry/Payton/Zuber/Austin Williams will explode this year!" statements with no evidence to support it. Generally, the reason people get pissed at 7 is that he popped their bubble of irrationally positive opinions. You do you 7, I'll get the popcorn and pull up a chair

7 is a glass half empty kind of guy.


Me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa9whWCL8EI

[Schultzy]

We drug Guidry underneath the linebackers last yr and he was scared to death of getting clocked.

He is better suited for dig routes or sitting down in the middle somewhere and going for YAC off of that.

[Turfdawg67]

Mstate7 is just an idiot that follows c34?s lead on everything. Don?t let him get under your skin. He?s a clueless moron

What's his post count up to? 53K? 25 on this thread alone... Sad.

[Coach34]

How many of Ross' catches were beyond 5 yds? Mullen loves some bubble screens to try and get the ball out on the boundary.

The type of passing philosophy could have played a part in your stats. Moorhead seems to lean more on vertical passing, while Mullen incorporates more of a lateral passing attack (even Dak had issues with touch on the long pass while he was here). This, to me, is why we struggled more than we expected last year - Fitz couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently on passes beyond 10 yards.

bubble screens? Wtf? We almost never threw a bubble screen in Mullen's tenure. We weren't Ole Miss. We did throw alot of West Coast routes and crossing routes.

Fitz is a QB in the NFL currently- and some of you ignorant taco makers act like he was Rob Morgan or Matt Wyatt. Ross caught a ton of passes from Fitz- why? Because Ross is a borderline NFL WR. Guidry was one of the SEC leaders in drops in 2018. Our WR talent is bottom of P5- let alone the SEC. Thats why Payton is getting pub- its not hard to stand out when competing vs the WR's on our roster.

Tommy Gunn may be the vanilla Cam Newton- but until we look good offensively against a team with a pulse- many of us will hold out judgement on JoVester and the crew. The NCAA is gonna be factor as well on us this Fall- especially after Jackie made them look stupid this summer. Quality players are going to miss games. Jovester has alot to prove this Fall because he has alot of talent on the roster. Lots of that talent will again leave in January.

[Jarius]

Fitz is currently in the NFL to run a wildcat package ala Taysom Hill. Him being a great athlete has never been in question. If he was a pocket passer he would be selling insurance right now (and probably will be in a few weeks anyway). His throwing ability is not why he is with the Bucs right now. His problems as a passer last year were not all avoidable because of the system change and the ankle injury, but there were major problems and most of them were due to the quarterback not being able to properly get the ball to the receivers. I have no idea how you can watch last year's games and come up with a different opinion. Yes, the receivers had too many drops. The receivers dropping passes was not nearly as big a problem as the passes consistently getting to the receivers in a catchable manner.

[Really Clark?]

Fitz is currently in the NFL to run a wildcat package ala Taysom Hill. Him being a great athlete has never been in question. If he was a pocket passer he would be selling insurance right now (and probably will be in a few weeks anyway). His throwing ability is not why he is with the Bucs right now. His problems as a passer last year were not all avoidable because of the system change and the ankle injury, but there were major problems and most of them were due to the quarterback not being able to properly get the ball to the receivers. I have no idea how you can watch last year's games and come up with a different opinion. Yes, the receivers had too many drops. The receivers dropping passes was not nearly as big a problem as the passes consistently getting to the receivers in a catchable manner.

Even at the end of the season our receivers were making wrong reads and running incorrect routes at times. During the first half of the year that group had a lot of issues and add the season long drops, which was worse in the league, it wasn’t a majority on the QB. 2 catches per game more last year and Fitz is 60% completion for the year we still are not having these discussions. That’s not saying he didn’t have issues, because there is no question he did, but it was 50/50 between QB and WR’s

[Jarius]

Even at the end of the season our receivers were making wrong reads and running incorrect routes at times. During the first half of the year that group had a lot of issues and add the season long drops, which was worse in the league, it wasn’t a majority on the QB. 2 catches per game more last year and Fitz is 60% completion for the year we still are not having these discussions. That’s not saying he didn’t have issues, because there is no question he did, but it was 50/50 between QB and WR’s

I don't agree with that at all. Judging from what Joe has said, Paul has said, Steve has said, and judging by my admittedly amateur eye, Fitz was the main issue in the passing game (and like I said it's not his fault that he had to learn a new offense on the fly in fall camp). He was good when he played awful defenses because he had time to read defenses and was not pressured. When he played real SEC defenses he struggled to make reads in time and was thinking more than just playing. Mitchell dropping a pass against Florida and Guidry dropping a pass against Iowa could have completely changed our opinion of everyone though. Joe's inability to have his team ready against Kentucky (that's the maddest I have ever been at an MSU football coach ever) and his inability to give the left tackle any sort of help also cost us a game. Plenty of blame to go around, but I just think Fitz was put in a really unfair spot last year and it really showed.

[gravedigger]

Same was said about Austin Williams last year. Kid couldn?t start for his Juco team. I?ll classify this one as ?I?ll believe it when I see it in a game vs quality competition ?.

No it really wasn?t. Williams played a position that should have gotten the ball more. It was expected he would get a number of catches. The talk about Peyton is his athleticism.

[Covercorner2]

bubble screens? Wtf? We almost never threw a bubble screen in Mullen's tenure. We weren't Ole Miss. We did throw alot of West Coast routes and crossing routes.

Fitz is a QB in the NFL currently- and some of you ignorant taco makers act like he was Rob Morgan or Matt Wyatt. Ross caught a ton of passes from Fitz- why? Because Ross is a borderline NFL WR. Guidry was one of the SEC leaders in drops in 2018. Our WR talent is bottom of P5- let alone the SEC. Thats why Payton is getting pub- its not hard to stand out when competing vs the WR's on our roster.

Tommy Gunn may be the vanilla Cam Newton- but until we look good offensively against a team with a pulse- many of us will hold out judgement on JoVester and the crew. The NCAA is gonna be factor as well on us this Fall- especially after Jackie made them look stupid this summer. Quality players are going to miss games. Jovester has alot to prove this Fall because he has alot of talent on the roster. Lots of that talent will again leave in January.

A few things:

- Fitz is not a QB in the NFL currently and never will be. Went undrafted. I?m sure some of our WRs on this year?s team will end up in the NFL if that?s how you want to put it.
- please provide evidence of where Guidry was one of the SEC?s leaders in drops

[msstate7]

https://i.postimg.cc/JzPbrp2S/CC307-FC1-1-E35-4036-B8-FA-F508-C2-C16-EF7.jpg (https://postimages.org/)upload gifs online (https://postimages.org/)

[msstate7]

Delete

[msstate7]

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/2019/08/07/joe-moorhead-mississippi-state-football-msu-bulldogs-training-camp-sec-football-tommy-stevens/1941916001/

Says we still struggling with drop passes some

[gravedigger]

What's the stakes?

Anyone who knows me IRL knows I?m an optimistic person, but I?m gonna have to side with you on this bet. Guidry has a way to go this year to prove draft ability. He will have his highlights and probably more than last year, but draft worthy is a stretch.

[gravedigger]

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That?s interesting. Kind of a reverse passer rating.

[Cooterpoot]

7, just sit back, and wait for it. We’ve been waiting on that great passing game for years. They’re expecting a guy that wasn’t a good Juco WR, wasn’t really recruited by a ton of SEC schools outside MS (TN), to be the savior. We’ve seen this before. I hope I’m wrong.

[Todd4State]

https://i.postimg.cc/JzPbrp2S/CC307-FC1-1-E35-4036-B8-FA-F508-C2-C16-EF7.jpg (https://postimages.org/)upload gifs online (https://postimages.org/)

That doesn't quantify if a drop was due to the QB or the receiver.

[Jarius]

7, just sit back, and wait for it. We’ve been waiting on that great passing game for years. They’re expecting a guy that wasn’t a good Juco WR, wasn’t really recruited by a ton of SEC schools outside MS (TN), to be the savior. We’ve seen this before. I hope I’m wrong.

He may or may not be very good but he had SEC offers from Us, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Ole Miss. Also had one from North Carolina. That's not a bad offer list. If anyone know a good receiver it's Ole Miss. That's the one thing they get right.

[msstate7]

That doesn't quantify if a drop was due to the QB or the receiver.

I'm not sure why you guys can't see that drops were a problem. Hell, the biggest joe proponents were saying "we were 2 drop passes from 10 wins" all offseason. I guess those were the only 2 drops by our sure hand WRs all season. 1st pass to Guidry in the spring game was another drop.

[Cooterpoot]

He may or may not be very good but he had SEC offers from Us, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Ole Miss. Also had one from North Carolina. That's not a bad offer list. If anyone know a good receiver it's Ole Miss. That's the one thing they get right.

So, like I said, he had few SEC offers outside MS. Look, we get pumped news of greatness every season this time of year to build up interest.

[Ari Gold]

7, just sit back, and wait for it. We’ve been waiting on that great passing game for years. They’re expecting a guy that wasn’t a good Juco WR, wasn’t really recruited by a ton of SEC schools outside MS (TN), to be the savior. We’ve seen this before. I hope I’m wrong.

Unfortunately I read thru this 5 page thread and I saw no where that anyone said he was going to be our savior.
According to some media guys and coaches who have seen him at practice JP is having a very good camp.

No one expects him to start or lead the team in catches, yards or TDs... so any production is good production.

We finally get some guys at a position WR that we have been bitching about for years and we still bitch about it..

[gravedigger]

I'm not sure why you guys can't see that drops were a problem. Hell, the biggest joe proponents were saying "we were 2 drop passes from 10 wins" all offseason. I guess those were the only 2 drops by our sure hand WRs all season. 1st pass to Guidry in the spring game was another drop.

They were a problem. Just not THE problem.

[gravedigger]

Unfortunately I read thru this 5 page thread and I saw no where that anyone said he was going to be our savior.
According to some media guys and coaches who have seen him at practice JP is having a very good camp.

No one expects him to start or lead the team in catches, yards or TDs... so any production is good production.

We finally get some guys at a position WR that we have been bitching about for years and we still bitch about it..

Ok, but you contended that Guidry would be getting drafted in the spring and based on observations before this fall, that's a stretch.

[Jarius]

So, like I said, he had few SEC offers outside MS. Look, we get pumped news of greatness every season this time of year to build up interest.

If you don't think that's a good offer list then you probably think a lot of our roster's offer list sucks because the majority don't have that many SEC offers.

[Ari Gold]

Ok, but you contended that Guidry would be getting drafted in the spring and based on observations before this fall, that's a stretch.

Actually I based it on a NFL scout draft sheet I got to see.
If he doesn’t get drafted then oh well. If he does then props to the kid for putting in the work.
I think SG has a big year

And I think I was one of the VERY few that said Spoon would get drafted. Looks like that was correct

[MarketingBully]

That doesn't quantify if a drop was due to the QB or the receiver.

It also doesn?t quantify the fact that Fitz threw one speed on his ball. A 90 mph fastball of a pass. He didn?t throw what you would call a catchable ball. And that drop by Guidry in the Outback Bowl wasn?t even intended for him. Fitz overthrew the TE who tipped the ball and caused enough of a distraction for Guidry to miss it. Should he of caught it? Sure but it wasn?t as easy of a catch as it first looked.

[Really Clark?]

That doesn't quantify if a drop was due to the QB or the receiver.

The stat considered only normal catchable balls but it’s subjective to a degree. The article kind of talked about some. But it stands that the WR group dropped way too many. If we are just bottom third on the league average that’s 1 pass per game completed and QB is at 56% completion. There is no way we can’t find 12 horrendous drops from our receivers last season that absolutely nothing to do with QB. Throw in all of KT’s throws as well. Fitz was below average, but the WR were equally as bad or worse.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/stat-shows-which-sec-qbs-are-hurt-most-by-dropped-passes/

[MarketingBully]

Actually I based it on a NFL scout draft sheet I got to see.
If he doesn’t get drafted then oh well. If he does then props to the kid for putting in the work.
I think SG has a big year

And I think I was one of the VERY few that said Spoon would get drafted. Looks like that was correct

Personally I think Zuber, Guidry, Whop, and Thomas have good years. Our WR group will be much better this year and whatever we get from JP will be gravy imo.

[chef dixon]

It is pretty simple. Last year we had a QB who couldnt throw and receivers that couldnt catch. So give me any new faces to get excited about.

[bulldawg28]

The 1st drop Guidry has I'd move him to 4th string. It's not that hard to catch a ball. Mentally he's lacking. Whop, Payton, Zuber, Williams, Mitchell, and Thomas would be my 6. If you drop a pass you go fight for the 6th spot. Truthfully, I think the TE's should take the pressure off the passing game and build inside out.

[BiscuitEater]

Fitz is a QB in the NFL currently

Yo, C*nt34, get back when he starts a game!

[Coach34]

Yo, C*nt34, get back when he starts a game!

I always find it funny how we have different rules for the players we cheer for. Everybody loves some Fred Ross and his really good career at State- but he certainly will never be held to the standard of having to start an NFL game as proof of his talent. Fitz is on an NFL roster and will play this preseason in NFL games. Only the 2nd State QB to do that since when- your lifetime?

[Doggie_Style]

I'm not sure why you guys can't see that drops were a problem. Hell, the biggest joe proponents were saying "we were 2 drop passes from 10 wins" all offseason. I guess those were the only 2 drops by our sure hand WRs all season. 1st pass to Guidry in the spring game was another drop.

Why...because it doesn?t fit the narrative that ?Fitz was the main problem and now that he?s gone we?re fine??. We need a major improvement at WR before any of our QB?s look good. I?m hoping the coaching change along with the new additions gets us closer to where we need to be.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I always find it funny how we have different rules for the players we cheer for. Everybody loves some Fred Ross and his really good career at State- but he certainly will never be held to the standard of having to start an NFL game as proof of his talent. Fitz is on an NFL roster and will play this preseason in NFL games. Only the 2nd State QB to do that since when- your lifetime?

I'll just leave this here as you continue to defend your position:

"He has prototypical NFL quarterback size at 6-5 and 226 pounds and he ran a 4.64 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine. Obviously, Fitzgerald would have been drafted, and very early, if he was coming into the league a fully-formed NFL passer, and his 54.2% completion rate and 30 interceptions are on the other side of the ledger. But there are talents to be molded there, and his ability to help a team in other ways during that process could be the way he gets a chance at development in the first place."

Read the whole article and you'll see he isn't battling for a spot because of his throwing skills. No one here has ever said he wasn't a gamer, but he was never a throwing QB during his time here.

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/nick-fitzgerald-embraces-positional-flexibility

[msstate7]

Delete... forget it

[Goldendawg]

I always find it funny how we have different rules for the players we cheer for. Everybody loves some Fred Ross and his really good career at State- but he certainly will never be held to the standard of having to start an NFL game as proof of his talent. Fitz is on an NFL roster and will play this preseason in NFL games. Only the 2nd State QB to do that since when- your lifetime?

Number 3 for me. I saw Joe Reed play for State and in the NFL.

[BuckyIsAB****]

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Good God thats brutal

[msstate7]

Good God thats brutal

I'm not saying futz isn't to blame some... he threw some heat sinking missiles. I do think it is ridiculous to blame it all on fitz though

[Goldendawg]

Good God thats brutal

Fritz threw it too hard. Our all SEC receiving corps played the entire year with bruised hands and fractures.*** Every reason for every loss was on Fritz and Fritz alone.** An incoming QB who has never started a game , much less in the SEC, a Big 10 Receiver with questionable stats against Top 10 defenses last year, "Ray Guy, Jr", from USA will not get 6th year of eligibility, and an ex-Michigan RB who has questionable stats on the field and in the classroom might not make it to campus.** All is well through my maroon colored glasses. BTW, will we get the O play in this year with 5 or more seconds left so big, fast SEC D's can't tee off on the snap? More seriously, my floor this year is 7-5 with some competitive SEC losses, ceiling is 9-3. 6-6 against today's 4 OOC cupcakes, and a totally unacceptable 2-6 in the SEC and some coaching heads should roll. JMO! Hail State! Family of 8 will be in season ticket seats for approx year #50.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I'm not saying futz isn't to blame some... he threw some heat sinking missiles. I do think it is ridiculous to blame it all on fitz though

I don't think anyone blames it all on him. Personally I'd say at least 2-3% of the drops wouldn't have happened if Fitz wasn't making the WRs contort to get a hand on the ball, and another 1ish% were because of completely unnecessary heat seeking missiles. But Id say the WR's were in the 12-13% drop rate on their own and that's really unacceptable. SEC defenses just don't give enough chances to waste 10+% of the good passes

[Todd4State]

It also doesn?t quantify the fact that Fitz threw one speed on his ball. A 90 mph fastball of a pass. He didn?t throw what you would call a catchable ball. And that drop by Guidry in the Outback Bowl wasn?t even intended for him. Fitz overthrew the TE who tipped the ball and caused enough of a distraction for Guidry to miss it. Should he of caught it? Sure but it wasn?t as easy of a catch as it first looked.

Exactly my point. Fitz rarely threw the ball with any touch on it whatsoever.


The stat considered only normal catchable balls but it’s subjective to a degree. The article kind of talked about some. But it stands that the WR group dropped way too many. If we are just bottom third on the league average that’s 1 pass per game completed and QB is at 56% completion. There is no way we can’t find 12 horrendous drops from our receivers last season that absolutely nothing to do with QB. Throw in all of KT’s throws as well. Fitz was below average, but the WR were equally as bad or worse.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/stat-shows-which-sec-qbs-are-hurt-most-by-dropped-passes/


I agree that it's not all on Fitz- just that the stat doesn't totally take his rocket balls into account. I don't disagree that drops by the WR's were a problem at all- but my guess is of that 16% probably 9-10% were on the receivers and the other 6-7% was on Fitz.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'm not saying futz isn't to blame some... he threw some heat sinking missiles. I do think it is ridiculous to blame it all on fitz though

It is ridiculous

[BuckyIsAB****]

Fritz threw it too hard. Our all SEC receiving corps played the entire year with bruised hands and fractures.*** Every reason for every loss was on Fritz and Fritz alone.** An incoming QB who has never started a game , much less in the SEC, a Big 10 Receiver with questionable stats against Top 10 defenses last year, "Ray Guy, Jr", from USA will not get 6th year of eligibility, and an ex-Michigan RB who has questionable stats on the field and in the classroom might not make it to campus.** All is well through my maroon colored glasses. BTW, will we get the O play in this year with 5 or more seconds left so big, fast SEC D's can't tee off on the snap? More seriously, my floor this year is 7-5 with some competitive SEC losses, ceiling is 9-3. 6-6 against today's 4 OOC cupcakes, and a totally unacceptable 2-6 in the SEC and some coaching heads should roll. JMO! Hail State! Family of 8 will be in season ticket seats for approx year #50.

Stevens is going to be good for us. I would be shocked if he isnt

[MarketingBully]

I'm not saying futz isn't to blame some... he threw some heat sinking missiles. I do think it is ridiculous to blame it all on fitz though

Fitz was not good in Moorhead’s system. Running the option or in Mullen’s dink and dunk system he was good. Any system where he had to actually do things cerebrally he was never going to excel.

[BiscuitEater]

I always find it funny how we have different rules for the players we cheer for. Everybody loves some Fred Ross and his really good career at State- but he certainly will never be held to the standard of having to start an NFL game as proof of his talent. Fitz is on an NFL roster and will play this preseason in NFL games. Only the 2nd State QB to do that since when- your lifetime?

C*nt34, WHERE did I say anything about Ross? NOWHERE. You said .."Fitz is a QB in the NFL currently." I said .. "Yo, C*nt34, get back when he starts a game!"

So, get back to me when he actually PLAYS in a NFL game.

[BiscuitEater]

Only the 2nd State QB to do that since when- your lifetime?

Actually, C*nt34, he would be the 6th MSU QB in the NFL.

1962 Charlie Furlow Los Angeles Rams QB
1971 Joe Reed San Francisco 49ers QB
1979 Dave Marler Buffalo Bills QB
1984 John Bond Cleveland Browns QB
2016 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB
Fitz.

Guess I'm older than I type.

[tcdog70]

Actually, C*nt34, he would be the 6th MSU QB in the NFL.

1962 Charlie Furlow Los Angeles Rams QB
1971 Joe Reed San Francisco 49ers QB
1979 Dave Marler Buffalo Bills QB
1984 John Bond Cleveland Browns QB
2016 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB
Fitz.

Guess I'm older than I type.

Hal Chelander- Vikings

[Dawgowar]

Actually, C*nt34, he would be the 6th MSU QB in the NFL.

1962 Charlie Furlow Los Angeles Rams QB
1971 Joe Reed San Francisco 49ers QB
1979 Dave Marler Buffalo Bills QB
1984 John Bond Cleveland Browns QB
2016 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB
Fitz.

Guess I'm older than I type.


Robert 'Cow Tipper' Baggins - Houston Oilers

[BuckyIsAB****]

Robert 'Cow Tipper' Baggins - Houston Oilers

Pics or it didnt happen

[Dawgowar]

Pics or it didnt happen

Don't be a doubter. 1922 Houston Oiler roster, Astrodome was called the 'The Great Boob of Texas' then and was made of wood and canvas. Cow Tipper Baggins earned his nickname knocking over fat women who stood between him and his beer at the local Saloons. Surely you have seen 'Baggins Hall' on campus?

[Coach34]

Actually, C*nt34, he would be the 6th MSU QB in the NFL.

1962 Charlie Furlow Los Angeles Rams QB
1971 Joe Reed San Francisco 49ers QB
1979 Dave Marler Buffalo Bills QB
1984 John Bond Cleveland Browns QB
2016 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB
Fitz.

Guess I'm older than I type.

Fitz will be only the 2nd State QB to play in an NFL preseason game since John Bond 35 years ago tells you all you need to know about how good he is

[Cooterpoot]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.

[msstate7]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.

I bet that damn fitz was throwing passes

[HoopsDawg]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.

freak..

[Coach34]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.


Only a moron would be surprised by this

[ShotgunDawg]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.

Sigh.....

[Bothrops]

Scrimmage balls get coated with a fine layer of udder balm.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Fitz will be only the 2nd State QB to play in an NFL preseason game since John Bond 35 years ago tells you all you need to know about how good he is

Don Smith was a State QB. He played in NFL preseason games. But at a different position.

[thf24]

Fitz will be only the 2nd State QB to play in an NFL preseason game since John Bond 35 years ago tells you all you need to know about how good he is

How many QB's have we ever had who are 6'5", well built and athletic enough to maybe play a role other than conventional QB1 in the NFL? You of all people know good and damn well those are the reasons he's on a preseason roster, not remotely because he's a conventionally good QB like you're implying.

[MarketingBully]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.

I love that is your takeaway from the scrimmage. But just keep going pointing out anything negative about MSU sports. Seems to be your Schtick.

[Jarius]

Lots of drops at today?s scrimmage.

Really? Who had the drops and how many ?

[R2Dawg]

Actually, C*nt34, he would be the 6th MSU QB in the NFL.

1962 Charlie Furlow Los Angeles Rams QB
1971 Joe Reed San Francisco 49ers QB
1979 Dave Marler Buffalo Bills QB
1984 John Bond Cleveland Browns QB
2016 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB
Fitz.

Guess I'm older than I type.

Nice work and list. Don Smith - Bills but he did play RB I believe but he was an MSU QB.

[gravedigger]

Lots of drops at today’s scrimmage.

Either you were there, or you read the same report I did and you are trolling.

[Cooterpoot]

Well, when someone at the scrimmage says there were a lot of drops, I go with what they say. His quote was,”QB play was ok but the drops were still there”. I’m sorry if that clouds your sunshine. Just passing along what was said.
To be fair, Payton was not named specifically.

[Jarius]

Well, when someone at the scrimmage says there were a lot of drops, I go with what they say. His quote was,?QB play was ok but the drops were still there?. I?m sorry if that clouds your sunshine. Just passing along what was said.
To be fair, Payton was not named specifically.

Thanks for the info. Anything else you can share?

[Coach007]

Lots of drops at today?s scrimmage.

Nope! It was not alot.

[Coach007]

Either you were there, or you read the same report I did and you are trolling.

yep

[Todd4State]

All I have to say is if Payton is one of our best WR's he should start over Mitchell or Guidry.

[msstate7]

All I have to say is if Payton is one of our best WR's he should start over Mitchell or Guidry.

I agree. None of our returning starters deserve a locked-in spot

[gravedigger]

Well, when someone at the scrimmage says there were a lot of drops, I go with what they say. His quote was,”QB play was ok but the drops were still there”. I’m sorry if that clouds your sunshine. Just passing along what was said.
To be fair, Payton was not named specifically.

Thank you for your honesty.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Well, when someone at the scrimmage says there were a lot of drops, I go with what they say. His quote was,?QB play was ok but the drops were still there?. I?m sorry if that clouds your sunshine. Just passing along what was said.
To be fair, Payton was not named specifically.

There were 3 drops during the scrimmage. 2 on 1 drive that still ended in a TD.

[msstate7]

There were 3 drops during the scrimmage. 2 on 1 drive that still ended in a TD.

Who dropped em?

[RezDog7]

There were 3 drops during the scrimmage. 2 on 1 drive that still ended in a TD.

There you go with your facts, when you know the majority on this board is bound and determined to make sure everybody else knows how bad MSU sucks.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Who dropped em?

Guidry Thomas & Cumbest.

[msstate7]

There you go with your facts, when you know the majority on this board is bound and determined to make sure everybody else knows how bad MSU sucks.

Doesn't really say much by saying 3 drops. You have to know how many passes were attempted. Using the drop rates for sec QBs last year, 9.6% was the avg. Give me numbers of passes, and I'll tell you if the number was below avg, normal, or above avg

ETA... I'm an idiot. Number of passes wouldn't be what we needed. Not sure what I was thinking. You'd need to know number of passes that could've been caught and the number that actually were

[msstate7]

Guidry Thomas & Cumbest.

Thanks.

Do you have passing numbers for both QBs?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Thanks.

Do you have passing numbers for both QBs?

Naw I don't.

[MarketingBully]

There were 3 drops during the scrimmage. 2 on 1 drive that still ended in a TD.

Thanks IYOK.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Bubba: Billie Bob, how you do at the gun range?

Billie Bob: Not so good Bubba, I missed the target 3 times.

Bubba: Damn, that ain't good.

Billie Bob: Does it matter that I hit the Bull's eye 22 out of 25 shots??

Stats don't always tell the tale.

[Jarius]

Guidry Thomas & Cumbest.

So 1 drop for the entire scrimmage by a guy that will start. Oh the horror.

[Coach007]

So 1 drop for the entire scrimmage by a guy that will start. Oh the horror.

Nightmare on Elm street !!!


I hate that our fans are always in the exact opposite mode of our team. It reminds me of the dad who has a kid who wants to play basketball. He is excited about it and rushes home and tells his dad "dad... tryouts are tomorrow... can I go? I really want to do it!!!".... Dad responds "yeah.. I guess, but son your are too fat to get up and down the court... but maybe you can find a spot and if you don't make it but will lose the weight... maybe in a few years you will be able"....


I mean damn. We should be the most supportive fan base in the SEC. That should be our focus.

[gravedigger]

Bubba: Billie Bob, how you do at the gun range?

Billie Bob: Not so good Bubba, I missed the target 3 times.

Bubba: Damn, that ain't good.

Billie Bob: Does it matter that I hit the Bull's eye 22 out of 25 shots??

Stats don't always tell the tale.

And what is more, when the info is coming second/third hand, we can make the info tell us anything we want it to.

[justwin]

Doesn't really say much by saying 3 drops. You have to know how many passes were attempted. Using the drop rates for sec QBs last year, 9.6% was the avg. Give me numbers of passes, and I'll tell you if the number was below avg, normal, or above avg

ETA... I'm an idiot. Number of passes wouldn't be what we needed. Not sure what I was thinking. You'd need to know number of passes that could've been caught and the number that actually were

3 drops tells me an awful lot. 3 is not many at all.

[msstate7]

3 drops tells me an awful lot. 3 is not many at all.

It tells you absolutely nothing without number of completions. If there were around 30 completions, it was an avg amount of drops going by last year's sec drop stats.

[msbulldog]

The drop by Cumbest came after a clean hit by Colin Duncan.

[R2Dawg]

Guidry Thomas & Cumbest.

So not more than one drop per WR - one starter, one freshman. Not concerned.

[BuckyIsAB****]

3 drops tells me an awful lot. 3 is not many at all.

Im gonna get bashed but 3 drops against Auburn, LSU, A&M, Bama probably gets us beat.

Drops are going to happen even the best ones do it it is encouraging though bc that number was a lot higher this time last year

[RezDog7]

So not more than one drop per WR - one starter, one freshman. Not concerned.

Naw man, there were only 3 passes thrown and we dropped them all. We are terrible, just ask the board.

[msstate7]

Naw man, there were only 3 passes thrown and we dropped them all. We are terrible, just ask the board.

You see that's the difference between you and I. I want the rest of the data to declare if 3 drops was acceptable or not. You just immediately go to 3 is acceptable bc you're a fan. That's cool, but it really shows you can't be objective when it comes to state. That's why you make a sucker bet with a guy like me (LSU last season) that uses more objectivity

[Ifyouonlyknew]

The drop by Cumbest came after a clean hit by Colin Duncan.

It was a good play but Brad will tell you he should've caught it.

[Coach007]

You see that's the difference between you and I. I want the rest of the data to declare if 3 drops was acceptable or not. You just immediately go to 3 is acceptable bc you're a fan. That's cool, but it really shows you can't be objective when it comes to state. That's why you make a sucker bet with a guy like me (LSU last season) that uses more objectivity

It's ALL about being a fan! Since when are we not suppose to be fans?

: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator
: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit)

Just saying. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fan

Sometimes I think you are not looking for the rest of the data.... just looking for an angle to say "we will suck again". I love you and all man, but it's a game. Somebody is going to win, and somebody is going to lose. To be counted in the top is not a bad thing. We play in the.. THE toughest conference in the nation.... and within that conference, we play in the toughest division. We will always play a huge top 10 schedule.

We play 4 top 25 teams (preseason ) just within our division.


Our university has done something no other university has EVER done. We set the record last year for over all wins in the SEC!

It's not about being objective either. It's about looking in every crack to find an excuse and a reason for us to NOT be good. It gets old brother.

[Coach34]

3 drops every Saturday will get you beat more times than not.

[Coach007]

3 drops every Saturday will get you beat more times than not.

Depends on the drops.

But I am ready for your turn at MS ST... Would LOVE to see that.

[msstate7]

It's ALL about being a fan! Since when are we not suppose to be fans?

: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator
: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit)

Just saying. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fan

Sometimes I think you are not looking for the rest of the data.... just looking for an angle to say "we will suck again". I love you and all man, but it's a game. Somebody is going to win, and somebody is going to lose. To be counted in the top is not a bad thing. We play in the.. THE toughest conference in the nation.... and within that conference, we play in the toughest division. We will always play a huge top 10 schedule.

We play 4 top 25 teams (preseason ) just within our division.


Our university has done something no other university has EVER done. We set the record last year for over all wins in the SEC!

It's not about being objective either. It's about looking in every crack to find an excuse and a reason for us to NOT be good. It gets old brother.

We're all fans or we wouldn't be here. Some of us just realize really wanting state to be great doesn't always equal state being great.

[QuadrupleOption]

It also doesn?t quantify the fact that Fitz threw one speed on his ball. A 90 mph fastball of a pass. He didn?t throw what you would call a catchable ball. And that drop by Guidry in the Outback Bowl wasn?t even intended for him. Fitz overthrew the TE who tipped the ball and caused enough of a distraction for Guidry to miss it. Should he of caught it? Sure but it wasn?t as easy of a catch as it first looked.

I'm not sure where this comes from but if you watch the play that pass was intended for Guidry the whole way. It was perfectly thrown. Guidry just bobbled it.

[Coach34]

I'm not sure where this comes from but if you watch the play that pass was intended for Guidry the whole way. It was perfectly thrown. Guidry just bobbled it.

Another Elitedawg myth thats been perpetuated to give JoVester a pass from last year and help lend hope to 2019.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Another Elitedawg myth thats been perpetuated to give JoVester a pass from last year and help lend hope to 2019.

I hope that you know your stuff as well as you seem to. If you do, if you've had any interaction with Moorhead at all you know he is no dumbass. He knows what he wants to do and it will work. I think its a myth that a RPO based offense wont work in this league bc guess what, Bama does it every single saturday. They are reading safeties and conflict players, counting numbers and getting the ball where it needs to be. If Moorhead had a QB that had any experience running anything other than the veer I think last year would have been better. He doesnt have that excuse this time. Every team we see is doing it now so to say that just Moorheads version of it wont work is just ignorant.... To even compare him to Croom is just being a hater at this point.

[msugolf]

You see that's the difference between you and I. I want the rest of the data to declare if 3 drops was acceptable or not. You just immediately go to 3 is acceptable bc you're a fan. That's cool, but it really shows you can't be objective when it comes to state. That's why you make a sucker bet with a guy like me (LSU last season) that uses more objectivity

Holy 17stick! Talk about psychotic...Mr. 1000 message board posts a day guy is suddenly a bastion of objectivity and calling people out on their team message board for being fans.

How many different types of notifications do you get when people respond to your posts? Texts, Email, Wet willies?

[msstate7]

Holy 17stick! Talk about psychotic...Mr. 1000 message board posts a day guy is suddenly a bastion of objectivity and calling people out on their team message board for being fans.

How many different types of notifications do you get when people respond to your posts? Texts, Email, Wet willies?

I had google install a cutting edge notification system wired directly into my central nervous system. Thanks for kind words, but you have no idea about Rez and my little quarrels here. He's the one that goes to the personal attacks... I'm quite cordial to everyone here. In fact, I let Rez stay when he ban bet me and lost

[bulldawg28]

It's good to hear the drops still ended in a TD. However, Guidry would be 4th string now with another drop.

[msugolf]

I had google install a cutting edge notification system wired directly into my central nervous system. Thanks for kind words, but you have no idea about Rez and my little quarrels here. He's the one that goes to the personal attacks... I'm quite cordial to everyone here. In fact, I let Rez stay when he ban bet me and lost

Ahhh sorry...I'm not up to date on my message board rivalries. Proceed

[Coach34]

I hope that you know your stuff as well as you seem to. If you do, if you've had any interaction with Moorhead at all you know he is no dumbass. He knows what he wants to do and it will work. I think its a myth that a RPO based offense wont work in this league bc guess what, Bama does it every single saturday. They are reading safeties and conflict players, counting numbers and getting the ball where it needs to be. If Moorhead had a QB that had any experience running anything other than the veer I think last year would have been better. He doesnt have that excuse this time. Every team we see is doing it now so to say that just Moorheads version of it wont work is just ignorant.... To even compare him to Croom is just being a hater at this point.

I think Moorhead is a smart guy
I think RPO's are a must in today's offense
I think making every play an RPO is dumb as hell
I think any coach that isnt hardheaded to the point they are able to adjust to the talent they have would have won 10 games in 2018
I think any coach that says "I'm not running that shit the rest of the year just to win some games. I'm going to run what I know" is a coach that is bound to fail in the end. Sylvester Croom had that mindset as did JoVester in 2018.

Jovester had sick talent in 2018 and wasted it. He has a very good team in 2019- I hope he doesnt waste it too. The talent drop in 2020 is going to be a rough eye opener in Sville.

[Coach007]

I think Moorhead is a smart guy
I think RPO's are a must in today's offense
I think making every play an RPO is dumb as hell
I think any coach that isnt hardheaded to the point they are able to adjust to the talent they have would have won 10 games in 2018
I think any coach that says "I'm not running that shit the rest of the year just to win some games. I'm going to run what I know" is a coach that is bound to fail in the end. Sylvester Croom had that mindset as did JoVester in 2018.

Jovester had sick talent in 2018 and wasted it. He has a very good team in 2019- I hope he doesnt waste it too. The talent drop in 2020 is going to be a rough eye opener in Sville.

Joe Moorhead is an amazing coach. His history shows that at every level. When are you going to apply for the job?

[gravedigger]

We're all fans or we wouldn't be here. Some of us just realize really wanting state to be great doesn't always equal state being great.

Your point is valid and the inverse is too. It is pretty common to hear we are going to be significantly worse on the interior DL this year due to who we lost. And I am pretty sure most agree we will not be the #1 rush/scoring d in the nation. But that is not required. Not even close. Plus, few really understand how good the interior DL will be to make an assessment at all.

Case in point in 2010 it was commonly stated we could not lose an Anthony Dixon and not hurt at RB productivity. But Ballard filled his shoes and we didnt suffer based on moving some rushing responsibility around.

I?m not saying we will be as productive. I am saying nobody has made a valid argument why the players we have now will be the cause of a drop off. They just insinuate it.

[Coach007]

Your point is valid and the inverse is too. It is pretty common to hear we are going to be significantly worse on the interior DL this year due to who we lost. And I am pretty sure most agree we will not be the #1 rush/scoring d in the nation. But that is not required. Not even close. Plus, few really understand how good the interior DL will be to make an assessment at all.

Case in point in 2010 it was commonly stated we could not lose an Anthony Dixon and not hurt at RB productivity. But Ballard filled his shoes and we didnt suffer based on moving some rushing responsibility around.

I?m not saying we will be as productive. I am saying nobody has made a valid argument why the players we have now will be the cause of a drop off. They just insinuate it.

The only logical argument is experience...


Abrams.. 3 star.
Sweat.... 3 star.

RIVERS.. 4 star... BUT HE WILL BE WAY WORSE!!!

No real logic. Just lack of belief in where Ms ST is at in our history.

[msstate7]

The only logical argument is experience...


Abrams.. 3 star.
Sweat.... 3 star.

RIVERS.. 4 star... BUT HE WILL BE WAY WORSE!!!

No real logic. Just lack of belief in where Ms ST is at in our history.

What if you list the losses like this, Simmons - 1st round, sweat - 1st round, Abram - 1st round, and green - 6th round? Does it look a little tougher to replace? What if I told you we had 3 1st round defenders last season and only 4 from the 1976 draft to the 2018 draft? We had a special, special group of defenders last season.

[MedDawg]

nm

[Coach34]

Joe Moorhead is an amazing coach. His history shows that at every level. When are you going to apply for the job?

We'll see.

Houston Nutt was a great coach too and got his ass run out
Burt was a great coach before the SEC taught him a lesson
Sumlin was the man before his SEC job
Butch was the big rising star before Tenn- as was Dooley
McElwain was going to be the next star in the SEC when he went to Fla

The SEC always brings final judgement

[Coach34]

CUT THAT JOVESTER SHIT OUT.

Who runs this board now? I thought there were rules on this board about names. Add Jovester to it. I know he started the board and I'm thankful for that, but he's making this board unreadable.

Jovester

[gravedigger]

What if you list the losses like this, Simmons - 1st round, sweat - 1st round, Abram - 1st round, and green - 6th round? Does it look a little tougher to replace? What if I told you we had 3 1st round defenders last season and only 4 from the 1976 draft to the 2018 draft? We had a special, special group of defenders last season.

And that is valid but again, what level do we have to play at on the DL in order to achieve the 8+ win mark? If Rivers does his job and Linebackers do theirs, and our D is more opportunistic with turnovers and interceptions, I'd say we can be at the level to give the offense the opportunity to get us more wins.

UK will most likely not be as much of a threat to beat us in Starkville. Auburn will be tougher over there for sure. A&M will most certainly be tougher. I am not sold on LSU just yet. Bama will be Bama, but it will be in Starkville. We trade a 10 win florida for a road game in Knoxville. Id say we are a have notch better there.

Yes. We lost some key players. Other teams did too. We gained at least 2 critical players at qb and wr to give us depth and experience in the system.

MY point is the scales havent really tilted in a negative way for us. Some things got tougher, some got better. What has changed is that there is not an unjustified blind trust in the offensive system we had one year ago today. Once bitten twice shy. And that's fair.

The real lesson is this: if you think you've found the code that breaks the enigma of predicting how we will do by looking at drops in a scrimmage, lost productivity, or counting on Tommy Stevens playing like a highlight film or Kylin running like he did against Kansas State, then you are just selecting samples that suit a conclusion youve already drawn.

The hard fact is this: we will likely fall between 6-9 wins. 6-7 says you are a bit more burned by the offense and the losses on defense than others from last season. If 8-9 you see a potential as more of a reality and are discounting Stevens is just as human as anyone else on the team. But no one unit is going to dictate our record this year outside of multiple injuries on the offensive line. We saw that in 13, I think.

I just wish people would stop acting like small bits of info are absolute indicators.

[Coach007]

What if you list the losses like this, Simmons - 1st round, sweat - 1st round, Abram - 1st round, and green - 6th round? Does it look a little tougher to replace? What if I told you we had 3 1st round defenders last season and only 4 from the 1976 draft to the 2018 draft? We had a special, special group of defenders last season.

What if I list those like they were when they got to MSU? No.. It doesn't look tougher. It looks like a friggin program that produces defensive players for the next level.

[Coach007]

We'll see.

Houston Nutt was a great coach too and got his ass run out
Burt was a great coach before the SEC taught him a lesson
Sumlin was the man before his SEC job
Butch was the big rising star before Tenn- as was Dooley
McElwain was going to be the next star in the SEC when he went to Fla

The SEC always brings final judgement

No.. I already see. Last year does not negate a whole lifetime of accomplishments. This isn't future. This is present. 8-5 is, and I repeat IS, his record which is 1 game HIGHER than the Mullen era average.

The man has a past, and it looks great.

So again... when will we see you as head coach of MS ST???

[Coach007]

Jovester

Sad man

[Coach007]

If Rivers does his job


Interesting that people are so clueless that this was a question asked of him... start at the 20 sec mark. The question says it all. "Per snap, you had more QBHs than anybody on the TEAM!"

BUT DAMN IT.. WE WILL SUCK!!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNFKMGErT0

[msstate7]

Interesting that people are so clueless that this was a question asked of him... start at the 20 sec mark. The question says it all. "Per snap, you had more QBHs than anybody on the TEAM!"

BUT DAMN IT.. WE WILL SUCK!!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNFKMGErT0

Thinking we won't be elite defensively again this year is hardly saying we will suck. I think we will win 6, most likely 7 this year. This isn't sucking. It's just middle of the pack sec, which isn't so bad

[KOdawg1]

What if you list the losses like this, Simmons - 1st round, sweat - 1st round, Abram - 1st round, and green - 6th round? Does it look a little tougher to replace? What if I told you we had 3 1st round defenders last season and only 4 from the 1976 draft to the 2018 draft? We had a special, special group of defenders last season.

While not all 1st rounders, what if I told you there were more draft picks on our defense this year?

Cam Dantzler- 1st round potential
Brian Cole- possible draft pick
Lee Autry- mid round draft pick
Willie Gay- draft pick if he declares
Landrews- late round draft pick
Errol Thompson- draft pick if he declares
Smitherman- possible draft pick
Rivers- possible draft pick

Yes, there's a lot of "possible's'' in there, but while we'll be thin on the interior, I don't see a huge drop off at other positions. Our defense will be good this year.

[Coach34]

What if I list those like they were when they got to MSU? No.. It doesn't look tougher. It looks like a friggin program that produces defensive players for the next level.

All 4 of those guys were thought to be bigtime when they came to State. Hell, Manny said repeatedly if Green had played HS ball in Texas, he would have easily been a 5-star recruit. Simmons was considered by most to be the best DL recruit in Miss in a generation. Sweat was a must have. Abram was the #1 rated juco safety in the country coming out.

A helluva group just departed

[Coach007]

Thinking we won't be elite defensively again this year is hardly saying we will suck. I think we will win 6, most likely 7 this year. This isn't sucking. It's just middle of the pack sec, which isn't so bad

Top 15 is elite

[HoopsDawg]

I think Moorhead is a smart guy
I think RPO's are a must in today's offense
I think making every play an RPO is dumb as hell
I think any coach that isnt hardheaded to the point they are able to adjust to the talent they have would have won 10 games in 2018
I think any coach that says "I'm not running that shit the rest of the year just to win some games. I'm going to run what I know" is a coach that is bound to fail in the end. Sylvester Croom had that mindset as did JoVester in 2018.

Jovester had sick talent in 2018 and wasted it. He has a very good team in 2019- I hope he doesnt waste it too. The talent drop in 2020 is going to be a rough eye opener in Sville.

Are we the only program in College football that runs 100% RPO's?

[Coach007]

What if I list those like they were when they got to MSU? No.. It doesn't look tougher. It looks like a friggin program that produces defensive players for the next level.

And I will say this... any coach SHOULD tell you that the program is a way of vastly improving a player due to the bar set before the other players.... and seeing it in action.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think Moorhead is a smart guy
I think RPO's are a must in today's offense
I think making every play an RPO is dumb as hell
I think any coach that isnt hardheaded to the point they are able to adjust to the talent they have would have won 10 games in 2018
I think any coach that says "I'm not running that shit the rest of the year just to win some games. I'm going to run what I know" is a coach that is bound to fail in the end. Sylvester Croom had that mindset as did JoVester in 2018.

Jovester had sick talent in 2018 and wasted it. He has a very good team in 2019- I hope he doesnt waste it too. The talent drop in 2020 is going to be a rough eye opener in Sville.

I can agree with just about all of that. Moorhead sacrificed some wins in 18 in order to put in his system even though it didnt match the talent we had. I can understand that I guess. Selfishly I wish he had committed to running something he wasnt comfortable with but then this year would essentially be year 1 and last year year zero

[HoopsDawg]

I can agree with just about all of that. Moorhead sacrificed some wins in 18 in order to put in his system even though it didnt match the talent we had. I can understand that I guess. Selfishly I wish he had committed to running something he wasnt comfortable with but then this year would essentially be year 1 and last year year zero

Moorhead looked at last year as Year 1 of HIS program. MSU fans looked at it as a once or twice in a lifetime opportunity.

[Coach007]

All 4 of those guys were thought to be bigtime when they came to State. Hell, Manny said repeatedly if Green had played HS ball in Texas, he would have easily been a 5-star recruit. Simmons was considered by most to be the best DL recruit in Miss in a generation. Sweat was a must have. Abram was the #1 rated juco safety in the country coming out.

A helluva group just departed

And people are saying the same thing about players on this defense. It's like you have an axe to grind with ALL THINGS Ms St Football. So I will ask again... when the hell are you going to apply for the job that you complain about every damn week.

Don't come in here talking NUMBER ONE JUCO AT 'X" position and then dis on Rivers. That's BS! River's was THE #1 DE out of JUCO and a 4 star out of JUCO.. also the #12 out of ALL JUCO.



Is it that you don't have the resume of the lowly Joe that you feel the need to insult him by calling him a name? Are you that small of a man??

[Coach34]

I can agree with just about all of that. Moorhead sacrificed some wins in 18 in order to put in his system even though it didnt match the talent we had. I can understand that I guess. Selfishly I wish he had committed to running something he wasnt comfortable with but then this year would essentially be year 1 and last year year zero

I guess here is where the big disconnect is

What Mullen runs and what JoVester runs is only about 50% different at most. Making a 25% adjustment in 2018 would have still been 75% JoVester's offense- so he wouldn't have really sacrificed anything heading into the Spring. Being unwilling to change cost him a couple of wins and alot of good faith in the fanbase. Anything less than 8 in 2019 really raises eyebrows. 9 or more soothes some concerns. 6-6 and we made the wrong hire

[R2Dawg]

I can agree with just about all of that. Moorhead sacrificed some wins in 18 in order to put in his system even though it didnt match the talent we had. I can understand that I guess. Selfishly I wish he had committed to running something he wasnt comfortable with but then this year would essentially be year 1 and last year year zero

Good point and I think that is what Jo did. Now it sets up that he has to produce this year. I would have rather tweaked last year and won a few more just to keep negative stuff down and maintain momentum but he chose the other way. It can still work but he put himself in a hole. Still got my fingers crossed he is the man.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Are we the only program in College football that runs 100% RPO's?

Probably not

[Coach34]

And people are saying the same thing about players on this defense. It's like you have an axe to grind with ALL THINGS Ms St Football. So I will ask again... when the hell are you apply for the job that you complain about every damn week.

Don't come in here talking NUMBER ONE JUCO AT 'X" position and then dis on Rivers. That's BS! River's was THE #1 DE out of JUCO and a 4 star out of JUCO.. also the #12 out of ALL JUCO.

A) I predicted us to win the SEC in 2018. I kinda fond of MSU football
B) I claim like many others we have alot of talent
C) Who said Rivers isnt going to be good? Certainly not me. Please quote where I did. But I did say you wont see Rivers getting double digits in sacks. He will be a force vs the run- no doubt

We are going to take a step down on the DL in 2019. Thats not saying they will suck, its simply saying they wont be awesome as they were in 2018.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I guess here is where the big disconnect is

What Mullen runs and what JoVester runs is only about 50% different at most. Making a 25% adjustment in 2018 would have still been 75% JoVester's offense- so he wouldn't have really sacrificed anything heading into the Spring. Being unwilling to change cost him a couple of wins and alot of good faith in the fanbase. Anything less than 8 in 2019 really raises eyebrows. 9 or more soothes some concerns. 6-6 and we made the wrong hire

What they run as far as what the QB is responsible for is very different. Extremely different

[BuckyIsAB****]

A) I predicted us to win the SEC in 2018. I kinda fond of MSU football
B) I claim like many others we have alot of talent
C) Who said Rivers isnt going to be good? Certainly not me. Please quote where I did. But I did say you wont see Rivers getting double digits in sacks. He will be a force vs the run- no doubt

We are going to take a step down on the DL in 2019. Thats not saying they will suck, its simply saying they wont be awesome as they were in 2018.

And I believe the LBs and secondary will take a step up. I know we lost Abrams and McLaurin, I loved both those guys but the ones behind them are damn good and we will be better at CB in 19 than we have been since Banks and Slay. I will say we will be better than them but only bc they werent really allowed to play at their best bc of what they were being coached to do.

[Coach34]

What they run as far as what the QB is responsible for is very different. Extremely different

It really isnt- just reading 2nd or 3rd level vs 1st or 2nd. In our little 4A program- I teach my QB to read the Mike to decide whether to throw the Tunnel or the Swing. It's just a different read than reading the DE on zone or triple....or reading a 2 high safety on verticals when we split the middle. A read is a read. The difference is Mullen didnt make every play a read. And I'm not aware of many schools that do that.

[Coach007]

A) I predicted us to win the SEC in 2018. I kinda fond of MSU football
B) I claim like many others we have alot of talent
C) Who said Rivers isnt going to be good? Certainly not me. Please quote where I did. But I did say you wont see Rivers getting double digits in sacks. He will be a force vs the run- no doubt

We are going to take a step down on the DL in 2019. Thats not saying they will suck, its simply saying they wont be awesome as they were in 2018.


A) I predicted us to win the SEC in 2018. I kinda fond of MSU football
B) I claim like many others we have alot of talent
C) Who said Rivers isnt going to be good? Certainly not me. Please quote where I did. But I did say you wont see Rivers getting double digits in sacks. He will be a force vs the run- no doubt

We are going to take a step down on the DL in 2019. Thats not saying they will suck, its simply saying they wont be awesome as they were in 2018.

A) I don't care what your prediction was. The fact is, ytou were NOT hired nor considered for the HC job at MSU. He has the resume'. You don't. Like I said.... You have an ax to grind whatever the reason may be.

B) No.. NO you don't. Per you we wasted every ounce we had last year.

C) YOU SAID!!!! You stated that RIVERS was a major drop off from what we had in Sweat. Even when I told you he had, PER SNAP, more QBHs than anybody you stated that was false and no,.... and OMG!!! JOEVESTER MESSED UP...etc..


I ask again oh GREAT ONE!!! When are you going to apply for the position that you shit on EVERY DAMN year since I have been on this board? When?




We are going to take a step down on the DL in 2019. Thats not saying they will suck, its simply saying they wont be awesome as they were in 2018.



No.. you pretty much implied that MSU would fall off the face of the planet on defense.

[Coach007]

It really isnt- just reading 2nd or 3rd level vs 1st or 2nd. In our little 4A program- I teach my QB to read the Mike to decide whether to throw the Tunnel or the Swing. It's just a different read than reading the DE on zone or triple....or reading a 2 high safety on verticals when we split the middle. A read is a read. The difference is Mullen didnt make every play a read. And I'm not aware of many schools that do that.

God Bless your heart... man it's not even the same. Sweet Jesus.......

[Coach34]

A) I don't care what your prediction was. The fact is, ytou were NOT hired nor considered for the HC job at MSU. He has the resume'. You don't. Like I said.... You have an ax to grind whatever the reason may be.

B) No.. NO you don't. Per you we wasted every ounce we had last year.

C) YOU SAID!!!! You stated that RIVERS was a major drop off from what we had in Sweat. Even when I told you he had, PER SNAP, more QBHs than anybody you stated that was false and no,.... and OMG!!! JOEVESTER MESSED UP...etc..


I ask aagin oh GREAT ONE!!! When are you going to apply for the position that you shit on EVERY DAMN year since I have been on this board? When?





No.. you pretty much implied that MSU would fall off the face of the planet on defense.

What the Hell?

I've said repeatedly that Rivers is better against the run than Sweat. I've said Rivers can absolutely play. I've said Rivers wont get double digits in sacks in 2019. So get out of here with your horseshit.

I hate to break it to you, but you don't have to have college football coaching experience to post on a message board. If it did there would be only 5-6 posters left on here.

We will be good on D in 2019- not great. 25-30 on D vs #1 is a drop but still makes you a pretty good D.

[Coach34]

God Bless your heart... man it's not even the same. Sweet Jesus.......

Yes- Fitz reading the DE to keep the ball or pitch it to Hill on the toss was such a difference to what Mullen ran. Good ****ing grief.

[Commercecomet24]

Y'all get the feeling that C007 and C34 are the same person just like Jekyll/Hyde lol?

[Coach34]

Y'all get the feeling that C007 and C34 are the same person just like Jekyll/Hyde lol?

I just find it amazing we have gone from Dak telling the world about Mullen's offense prepared him for an easy transition to the NFL to now saying Mullen runs a Jr High offense compared to JoVester. Both offenses have reads- as do all offenses today. The difference is Mullen doesnt read EVERY DAMN PLAY and has more of a West Coast diagonal passing game. JoVester stretches the field vertically a little more. But by and large at least 50% of the offense is the same

[Coach007]

What the Hell?

I've said repeatedly that Rivers is better against the run than Sweat. I've said Rivers can absolutely play. I've said Rivers wont get double digits in sacks in 2019. So get out of here with your horseshit.



No sir.

I stated that Rivers, given the amount of reps as Sweat, would produce. I posted verifiable stats from last year with the reps. Very similar results in pass rush.. thus the QBHs. SO no... the horse-shite is from your ax to grind. Not a single damn COACH at MSU has ever suited you.



I hate to break it to you, but you don't have to have college football coaching experience to post on a message board. If it did there would be only 5-6 posters left on here.


I asked since you know so damn much that you can use your position to criticize our coach and definitively state what is and what isn't ... when will you apply for the job?

Since I have joined ED, you have consistently used you position to push a public narrative against our coaches. if you are so DAMN GOOD and know ALL the damn answers, when will you apply?

The fact is, you are clueless to the system. YOU THINK you know, but you don't. You feel everybody should adjust to what you think, as a coach, works when Moorhead was hired for HIS DAMN SYSTEM. NOT to be a Mullen clone. How friggin embarrassing would that be!?

[Coach007]

Y'all get the feeling that C007 and C34 are the same person just like Jekyll/Hyde lol?

Nah.... While I can agree on points with him, he is so over the top with everything, it makes it hard to do so.

[Coach007]

I just find it amazing we have gone from Dak telling the world about Mullen's offense prepared him for an easy transition to the NFL

And who is arguing that isn't true???



to now saying Mullen runs a Jr High offense compared to JoVester. Both offenses have reads- as do all offenses today.


And??



The difference is Mullen doesnt read EVERY DAMN PLAY and has more of a West Coast diagonal passing game.


LMAO!




JoVester stretches the field vertically a little more. But by and large at least 50% of the offense is the same




..........................................

[Todd4State]

Y'all get the feeling that C007 and C34 are the same person just like Jekyll/Hyde lol?

I'm not going to ask which one is Jekyll and which one is Hyde.

[Todd4State]

And that is valid but again, what level do we have to play at on the DL in order to achieve the 8+ win mark? If Rivers does his job and Linebackers do theirs, and our D is more opportunistic with turnovers and interceptions, I'd say we can be at the level to give the offense the opportunity to get us more wins.

UK will most likely not be as much of a threat to beat us in Starkville. Auburn will be tougher over there for sure. A&M will most certainly be tougher. I am not sold on LSU just yet. Bama will be Bama, but it will be in Starkville. We trade a 10 win florida for a road game in Knoxville. Id say we are a have notch better there.

Yes. We lost some key players. Other teams did too. We gained at least 2 critical players at qb and wr to give us depth and experience in the system.

MY point is the scales havent really tilted in a negative way for us. Some things got tougher, some got better. What has changed is that there is not an unjustified blind trust in the offensive system we had one year ago today. Once bitten twice shy. And that's fair.

The real lesson is this: if you think you've found the code that breaks the enigma of predicting how we will do by looking at drops in a scrimmage, lost productivity, or counting on Tommy Stevens playing like a highlight film or Kylin running like he did against Kansas State, then you are just selecting samples that suit a conclusion youve already drawn.

The hard fact is this: we will likely fall between 6-9 wins. 6-7 says you are a bit more burned by the offense and the losses on defense than others from last season. If 8-9 you see a potential as more of a reality and are discounting Stevens is just as human as anyone else on the team. But no one unit is going to dictate our record this year outside of multiple injuries on the offensive line. We saw that in 13, I think.

I just wish people would stop acting like small bits of info are absolute indicators.

Awesome post.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Y'all get the feeling that C007 and C34 are the same person just like Jekyll/Hyde lol?

You took the words right out of my mouth. He needs to adjust his meds. LOL.

[Jarius]

I would just like to remind everyone that we had a full scrimmage and one person who is going to start dropped a pass the entire scrimmage. One drop was from the 4th string tight end that spent the entire spring playing baseball and the other drop was from a senior who has been a backup for 4 years, but actually lead the sec in not dropping passes last year.

[BuckyIsAB****]

It really isnt- just reading 2nd or 3rd level vs 1st or 2nd. In our little 4A program- I teach my QB to read the Mike to decide whether to throw the Tunnel or the Swing. It's just a different read than reading the DE on zone or triple....or reading a 2 high safety on verticals when we split the middle. A read is a read. The difference is Mullen didnt make every play a read. And I'm not aware of many schools that do that.

Thats one tunnel screen my guy. That ball can go 2 places. On inside zone for Moorhead the ball can go to the RB, QB pull or the QB can pull it then throw the backside bubble or key screen.

Thats all without added tags. Mullen ran english and Moorhead runs spanish for a QB. Trust me

[Todd4State]

I would just like to remind everyone that we had a full scrimmage and one person who is going to start dropped a pass the entire scrimmage. One drop was from the 4th string tight end that spent the entire spring playing baseball and the other drop was from a senior who has been a backup for 4 years, but actually lead the sec in not dropping passes last year.

I find it really hard to believe that teams don't have three dropped passes a game routinely. Especially if they are calling a play where a defender makes a hit a "drop" which it sounds like was the case with Cumbest.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I just find it amazing we have gone from Dak telling the world about Mullen's offense prepared him for an easy transition to the NFL to now saying Mullen runs a Jr High offense compared to JoVester. Both offenses have reads- as do all offenses today. The difference is Mullen doesnt read EVERY DAMN PLAY and has more of a West Coast diagonal passing game. JoVester stretches the field vertically a little more. But by and large at least 50% of the offense is the same

Mullen also ran that 2015 offense differently than anything else he had ever done or done since. He probably doesnt get enough credit for how good we were at throwing the football that year. Everyone just remembers him blowing the LSU game by running Holloway up the middle for a half then figuring out in the 2nd half that was a bad idea

[BuckyIsAB****]

And C34 Im not trying to roast you Im just saying everything you listed is also a post snap read. Moorhead asks the QB to look backside to see if we have numbers if so its a spit (throw) if not its a give. Then we snap the ball if he pulls it to spit it and the backside conflict defender squeezes on him he is supposed to throw the bubble or backside concept (key screen, shoot etc.) That is one play. Now there are plays Im sure that are 100 percent gives and 100 percent throws. Then you have your drop back game which is mostly air raid concepts. Shallow cross, mesh, y cross 4 verts, smash, and triangle read game.

It is multiple reads pre and post snap on just about every play. In my opinion this hurt us last year bc it took the ball away from our best players Hill and Williams and gave it to Fitz and our bad WR group. But when the QB can do it it is a system that can wear you out bc you cant be right on defense. Im making it sound more complicated than it is but Im just making the point that what Mullen does is a different world to a QB compared to Moorhead. Mullen should get some credit for how easy he makes it on his QBs, he has a proven track record of productive QBs there is no denying that

[BuckyIsAB****]

I find it really hard to believe that teams don't have three dropped passes a game routinely. Especially if they are calling a play where a defender makes a hit a "drop" which it sounds like was the case with Cumbest.

Not all drops are created equal I will agree with that

[MarketingBully]

I just find it amazing we have gone from Dak telling the world about Mullen's offense prepared him for an easy transition to the NFL to now saying Mullen runs a Jr High offense compared to JoVester. Both offenses have reads- as do all offenses today. The difference is Mullen doesnt read EVERY DAMN PLAY and has more of a West Coast diagonal passing game. JoVester stretches the field vertically a little more. But by and large at least 50% of the offense is the same

And Dak would have excelled in JoMo?s offense as well. Any offense Dak was in would have prepared him for the NFL because he put the work in and imo is a cerebral QB. Also it sounds like you are saying 8 wins or more should be predicted. Glad you are in agreement with most of us on here.

[Coach34]

And C34 Im not trying to roast you Im just saying everything you listed is also a post snap read. Moorhead asks the QB to look backside to see if we have numbers if so its a spit (throw) if not its a give. Then we snap the ball if he pulls it to spit it and the backside conflict defender squeezes on him he is supposed to throw the bubble or backside concept (key screen, shoot etc.) That is one play. Now there are plays Im sure that are 100 percent gives and 100 percent throws. Then you have your drop back game which is mostly air raid concepts. Shallow cross, mesh, y cross 4 verts, smash, and triangle read game.

It is multiple reads pre and post snap on just about every play. In my opinion this hurt us last year bc it took the ball away from our best players Hill and Williams and gave it to Fitz and our bad WR group. But when the QB can do it it is a system that can wear you out bc you cant be right on defense. Im making it sound more complicated than it is but Im just making the point that what Mullen does is a different world to a QB compared to Moorhead. Mullen should get some credit for how easy he makes it on his QBs, he has a proven track record of productive QBs there is no denying that

I understand there are pre-snap reads- most offenses have them on the collegiate level. JoVester isnt unique to that. But when he runs the play clock down to the last second play after play- it's tough to get a good read because of the lack of time and defenses disguising their looks until the QB gets his cadence going. Hell, I run most of the shit you named. He's not teaching rocket surgery. I still maintain the offenses arent that different. Mullen doesn't usually give the QB the option to take a hitch or slant instead of going thru with the run play- that is certainly a difference. But the run reads and pass reads are there on every play. It is what it is

[Coach34]

Also it sounds like you are saying 8 wins or more should be predicted. Glad you are in agreement with most of us on here.

Absolutely. Offensive genius HC and all this talent we have? No way this team shouldnt win at least 8 games.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I understand there are pre-snap reads- most offenses have them on the collegiate level. JoVester isnt unique to that. But when he runs the play clock down to the last second play after play- it's tough to get a good read because of the lack of time and defenses disguising their looks until the QB gets his cadence going. Hell, I run most of the shit you named. He's not teaching rocket surgery. I still maintain the offenses arent that different. Mullen doesn't usually give the QB the option to take a hitch or slant instead of going thru with the run play- that is certainly a difference. But the run reads and pass reads are there on every play. It is what it is

The plays may be a lot of the same inside zone, outside zone etc. but there is a lot more window dressing with Moorhead

[I seen it dawg]

What's the stakes?

This is an example of the shit I'm talking about.

[msstate7]

This is an example of the shit I'm talking about.

Yeah, Guidry is a no-doubt nfl guy. Sorry for even questioning it

[Homedawg]

Top 15 is elite

No top 15 is really good. Last year was elite. There is a difference.

[I seen it dawg]

A) I don't care what your prediction was. The fact is, ytou were NOT hired nor considered for the HC job at MSU. He has the resume'. You don't. Like I said.... You have an ax to grind whatever the reason may be.

B) No.. NO you don't. Per you we wasted every ounce we had last year.

C) YOU SAID!!!! You stated that RIVERS was a major drop off from what we had in Sweat. Even when I told you he had, PER SNAP, more QBHs than anybody you stated that was false and no,.... and OMG!!! JOEVESTER MESSED UP...etc..


I ask again oh GREAT ONE!!! When are you going to apply for the position that you shit on EVERY DAMN year since I have been on this board? When?





No.. you pretty much implied that MSU would fall off the face of the planet on defense.

This is also some of the shit I'm talking about. A post maybe 2 but damn on and on and on.

[I seen it dawg]

Yeah, Guidry is a no-doubt nfl guy. Sorry for even questioning it


He said he wouldn't be surprised. Not i bet your ****ing ass he's drafted you idiot. Big difference. Moving on.

[msstate7]

He said he wouldn't be surprised. Not i bet your ****ing ass he's drafted you idiot. Big difference. Moving on.

"I bet Guidry gets his name called in April.. when is the last time that happened here... ??"

Post 31 in this thread, page 2.

[Bass Chaser]

Where does this notion come from that we are very talented on offense? The offense is lacking at WR, and we don't know what we have at QB.

[I seen it dawg]

"I bet Guidry gets his name called in April.. when is the last time that happened here... ??"

Post 31 in this thread, page 2.

Yeah i can read and i knew you'd go back and research and find it and tell me i was wrong. My point was proven and predictable. Hey look at me i showed poster he was wrong and i proved it. Old.

It's a helluva lot closer to i wouldn't be surprised than i bet you your house you ****ing retard that he gets drafted.

[I seen it dawg]

Where does this notion come from that we are very talented on offense? The offense is lacking at WR, and we don't know what we have at QB.


We have some of what we think is talent from what we've been told by scouts and coaches and we hope it comes thru. It might not but hopefully it's better than last year. Better?

[msstate7]

Yeah i can read and i knew you'd go back and research and find it and tell me i was wrong. My point was proven and predictable. Hey look at me i showed poster he was wrong and i proved it. Old.

It's a helluva lot closer to i wouldn't be surprised than i bet you your house you ****ing retard that he gets drafted.

I bet = I wouldn't be surprised?

Funny, I thought it was a bet offer. Oh well, you seem to really know what Ari was thinking.

[I seen it dawg]

Yeah i can read and i knew you'd go back and research and find it and tell me i was wrong. My point was proven and predictable. Hey look at me i showed poster he was wrong and i proved it. Old.

It's a helluva lot closer to i wouldn't be surprised than i bet you your house you ****ing retard that he gets drafted.

Before starting in on Gridley and foambat I'd rather just ban you

[I seen it dawg]

I bet = I wouldn't be surprised?

Funny, I thought it was a bet offer. Oh well, you seem to really know what Ari was thinking.


Actually i do

[msstate7]

Before starting in on Gridley and foambat I'd rather just ban you

What you banning me for? Lol

[I seen it dawg]

What you banning me for? Lol

Didn't say i was. You were wrong in your reading comprehension.

[msstate7]

Didn't say i was. You were wrong in your reading comprehension.

Certainly not my strong point

[I seen it dawg]

But i will if i feel like it and it won't ****ing matter. Cleaning up the trash. Anyone can take it for face value.

[Noxdog]

What you banning me for? Lol


But I rarely post, just read. Coach does not bother me but msstate7 is just what he is doing to start shit or be negative.

He's way over the top and he's the main reason I don't come to this board and post/read as much. Dude needs to slow his roll, not banned.

[I seen it dawg]

Thanks for the input