Some Thoughts On Our QB Situation

[ShotgunDawg]

Just listening to Bo Bounds & it's like these media guys don't think.

"Gonna be a competition"; "Boff Stefens & Key will pl-aaaay"

Here is what's going happen:

- Tommy Stevens is going to start at QB for Mississippi State. Of course, don't argue with it.

- KT is going to be red shirted, but, since red shirts can play in 4 games, those 4 games will be used when he is needed as a "fireman" Meaning, if it's a blow out, he ain't playing. If we are at Auburn and the score is 21-17 in the 4th quarter & Stevens rolls his ankle, KT will play.

- The biggest debate with our QB situation is who gets the blowout snaps. Does Moorhead punt on Mayden & give those snaps to Shrader or does Moorhead believe enough in Mayden to give him snaps? With Schrader also red shirting, IMO it would behoove Moorhead to save Shrader's action for when he can play an entire quarter or so. No sense in wasting one of his games to kneel the ball or play one series.

Here is a guess of how the QB situation will shake out per game: In this I've got 7 possible games that KT could play in, but we can only use him in 4 of those.

This is not rocket science.

https://i.imgur.com/uxfM4df.jpg

[msstate7]

Why RS key? If he isn't good enough to play this year, he likely never will be. We will have 4 scholarship QBs in 2020 if no one leaves. No reason to RS key unless it's help him save a year of eligibility to transfer out after the season

[Ari Gold]

Bo has no idea about what is going on at the QB position or anything for that matter when it comes to MSU football
He is a talking head..

[ShotgunDawg]

Why RS key? If he isn't good enough to play this year, he likely never will be. We will have 4 scholarship QBs in 2020 if no one leaves. No reason to RS key unless it's help him save a year of eligibility to transfer out after the season

The most important word in your post is "Likely" meaning that it isn't certain.

It would be absolutely foolish for Moorhead to play KT in more than 4 games unless the season dictated it. Perhaps KT isn't good enough, but you don't know if Mayden & Shrader are good enough either. Meaning it wouldn't make any sense to needlessly waste KT's eligibility.

Additionally, by redshirting him, you're doing KT right. He keeps two years to play &, if he doesn't win the QB job next Spring, he's got 2 years to transfer to ULL or Tulane, both of which schools he'd likely get immediate eligibility

[msstate7]

Well I think key has some serious running ability, so I'd use it this year even if Stevens is the primary qb. Sorta like how Joe used Stevens with McSorley

[Maroonthirteen]

Bounds is the only sports talk in Mississippi that talks about State and sec sports. His show is certainly the most knowledgeable of all shows in the southeast regarding MSU athletics. I appreciate his show.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Key is suspended the first two games of the season anyways.

[Jarius]

Key should have been redshirted last year. Playing him in more than 4 games was a huge mistake IMO. That's why I don't expect him to redshirt this year. Stevens will be the quarterback but I feel like KT will play in packages and not redshirt. I agree that he should do exactly what you have laid out, but I don't feel like that is what is going to happen.

[ShotgunDawg]

Well I think key has some serious running ability, so I'd use it this year even if Stevens is the primary qb. Sorta like how Joe used Stevens with McSorley

Here is Stevens playing WIDE RECEIVER FOR PENN ST. Also a few days ago, Moorhead said that he thought KT & Stevens had similar running ability


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqn-MBu6TYA

[ShotgunDawg]

Bounds is the only sports talk in Mississippi that talks about State and sec sports. His show is certainly the most knowledgeable of all shows in the southeast regarding MSU athletics. I appreciate his show.

I like the show as well, but sometimes he just sounds educated on some issues.

[ShotgunDawg]

Key should have been redshirted last year. Playing him in more than 4 games was a huge mistake IMO. That's why I don't expect him to redshirt this year. Stevens will be the quarterback but I feel like KT will play in packages and not redshirt. I agree that he should do exactly what you have laid out, but I don't feel like that is what is going to happen.

I disagree. I think it would be extremely easy to RS KT this year. IMO, if they don't redshirt him, it means they don't believe in him

[Jarius]

I disagree. I think it would be extremely easy to RS KT this year. IMO, if they don't redshirt him, it means they don't believe in him

Read my post again. I didn't say it would not be easy. I didn't say we should not do it. I said we probably won't do it. If we were going to do it we would have done it last year. it would have been just as easy to do it then.

[BrunswickDawg]

People are also assuming that KT is the #2. From what I saw in the spring, if KT hasn't improved Mayden could be fighting him for that spot.

[TrapGame]

Tommy Stevens is the only QB that can make the reads and push a ball down the field. I could tell that neither Bo or the douche nozzle from SDS have any credible sources at MSU.

[Scared_Hitless]

Tommy Stevens is the only QB that can make the reads and push a ball down the field. I could tell that neither Bo or the douche nozzle from SDS have any credible sources at MSU.

100% and for good reason they have been shit talking Moorhead since the day he was hired. I am surprised he even went on the show the few times he did. He is pandering too much to SEC country and forgetting his base by constantly downing the teams in the state. OM included when he started the offseason talk with have we ever had two more boring coaches in MS? I had to tune him out until actual gameplay starts. He must have forgotten the Croom and O years where we were battling for that elusive fourth win in the Egg Bowl.

[msstate7]

100% and for good reason they have been shit talking Moorhead since the day he was hired. I am surprised he even went on the show the few times he did. He is pandering too much to SEC country and forgetting his base by constantly downing the teams in the state. OM included when he started the offseason talk with have we ever had two more boring coaches in MS? I had to tune him out until actual gameplay starts. He must have forgotten the Croom and O years where we were battling for that elusive fourth win in the Egg Bowl.

Well to be fair, Ed O is hardly boring

[Scared_Hitless]

Well to be fair, Ed O is hardly boring

I mean your not wrong. He still trashes Coach O though daily.

[TrapGame]

100% and for good reason they have been shit talking Moorhead since the day he was hired. I am surprised he even went on the show the few times he did. He is pandering too much to SEC country and forgetting his base by constantly downing the teams in the state. OM included when he started the offseason talk with have we ever had two more boring coaches in MS? I had to tune him out until actual gameplay starts. He must have forgotten the Croom and O years where we were battling for that elusive fourth win in the Egg Bowl.

Bo comes off as a condescending jerk on the radio. He's probably a nice guy in person but his radio persona takes over on the air. His takes on MSU and OM this year have been downright laughable.

[BuckyIsAB****]

People are also assuming that KT is the #2. From what I saw in the spring, if KT hasn't improved Mayden could be fighting him for that spot.

Mayden was the best passer in the spring in my eyes as well. I went to one practice and watched the game on record. Im not sure Shrader will ever get a real shot. Him and KT are the most likely to transfer. I just dont think either throws it that well. Shrader had a lot of growing up to do as well.

KT has great intangibles and is a Dawg so he will stay till the end of the season but if I had to put money on it right now I would say he transfers in January and we have a real ''QB battle'' next year between Mayden, Shrader and Rogers. Rogers is planning on graduating early to make spring ball as well

[yjnkdawg]

Mayden actually fits a JoeMo type offense better than he does a Dan Mullen one. Unless something happens unusual (snakebit , injuries, etc.) at the quarterback position then I don't see Shrader taking any snaps that Stevens doesn't get this year. Then who would get the most or all of snaps that Stevens didn't get could depend upon the possible redshiirt for KT and who knows the offense better and who comes through as the best passer (I agree with Bucky's thinking on this).

[Johnson85]

Why RS key? If he isn't good enough to play this year, he likely never will be. We will have 4 scholarship QBs in 2020 if no one leaves. No reason to RS key unless it's help him save a year of eligibility to transfer out after the season

If we think Key is the next starter, we should try to RS him to give us two years from him. If he doesn't look like the starter for next year at this point, then I'd hope we'd give him some input into whether he wanted to RS or not. Not redshirting him last year when he didn't play real snaps in more than 4 games was crappy. If he wants to save some eligibility for a transfer, we should at least try to work with him.

[Johnson85]

Mayden was the best passer in the spring in my eyes as well. I went to one practice and watched the game on record. Im not sure Shrader will ever get a real shot. Him and KT are the most likely to transfer. I just dont think either throws it that well. Shrader had a lot of growing up to do as well.

KT has great intangibles and is a Dawg so he will stay till the end of the season but if I had to put money on it right now I would say he transfers in January and we have a real ''QB battle'' next year between Mayden, Shrader and Rogers. Rogers is planning on graduating early to make spring ball as well

Seems a tad bit early to be making that call for a true freshman that hasn't even gone through fall practices yet. Especially as athletic as he supposedly is.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Seems a tad bit early to be making that call for a true freshman that hasn't even gone through fall practices yet. Especially as athletic as he supposedly is.

I agree it is early but he just didnt impress me much during the spring. Granted I saw one practice and the game but still. I do know he had spent a little time in the doghouse though but we all make mistakes. I am pulling for him not meaning to say he sucks

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree it is early but he just didnt impress me much during the spring. Granted I saw one practice and the game but still. I do know he had spent a little time in the doghouse though but we all make mistakes. I am pulling for him not meaning to say he sucks

I thought his feet looked good & he's obviously an excellent athlete. I liked the way he moved in the pocket.

I think the major question with Shrader is that shoulder surgery he had & if his arm & accuracy will ever come all the way back.

Thus, I would say it's too early to say due to that shoulder issue. If things aren't better by Spring next year, it may be time to start being concerned.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I thought his feet looked good & he's obviously an excellent athlete. I liked the way he moved in the pocket.

I think the major question with Shrader is that shoulder surgery he had & if his arm & accuracy will ever come all the way back.

Thus, I would say it's too early to say due to that shoulder issue. If things aren't better by Spring next year, it may be time to start being concerned.

My biggest concern with any QB is the mental side.

[BeastMan]

I agree it is early but he just didnt impress me much during the spring. Granted I saw one practice and the game but still. I do know he had spent a little time in the doghouse though but we all make mistakes. I am pulling for him not meaning to say he sucks

He had been on campus what, 2 and a half months at that point. Dak didn’t look like much the first spring after EE’ing. It would be crazy to evaluate an EE in his first spring

[chef dixon]

I think this suspension rumor is the biggest reason why things are playing out the way they are. I think it?s a big reason we brought TS in and given Moorhead?s prior use of KT, I don?t expect TS to be benched after that head start

[StarkVegasSteve]

I mean your not wrong. He still trashes Coach O though daily.

He's really doubled down on his O hate. I don't know what O ever did to piss him off, but he absolutely trashes him every time LSU is mentioned. He also puts WAY too much stock into everything Dave Bartoo says. You would think everything that guy says is gospel if you listen to Bo talk about him.

[Scared_Hitless]

He's really doubled down on his O hate. I don't know what O ever did to piss him off, but he absolutely trashes him every time LSU is mentioned. He also puts WAY too much stock into everything Dave Bartoo says. You would think everything that guy says is gospel if you listen to Bo talk about him.

Those analytics tho....... You would assume Bartoo has never been wrong listening to Bo. Hell he picked LSU at 6-6 last season. I do like Bartoos stats but I agree Bo takes it overboard.

[TrapGame]

Those analytics tho....... You would assume Bartoo has never been wrong listening to Bo. Hell he picked LSU at 6-6 last season. I do like Bartoos stats but I agree Bo takes it overboard.

Bartoo's matrix said App St. was going to give Georgia a close game two years ago. Georgia waxed their asses. It was way out of control before halftime. Bartoo is a con man.

[NCDawg]

Key is suspended the first two games of the season anyways.

I haven't heard about this. What was the reason(s)?

[Coach007]

Key is suspended the first two games of the season anyways.

If he is suspended for the first 2 games, he has ZERO shot at starting

[HoopsDawg]

I'd go ahead and play KT. We need a 1 year bridge from Stevens to Will Rodgers.

Whop was and still is the one who pisses me off that he didn't redshirt.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'd go ahead and play KT. We need a 1 year bridge from Stevens to Will Rodgers.

Whop was and still is the one who pisses me off that he didn't redshirt.

We think Rodgers is going to jump Mayden and Shrader that quickly? Both of those guys have a lot of talent, I will say I haven't seen Rodgers play.

[Jarius]

I haven't heard about this. What was the reason(s)?

Man I sure do hope we are good at BASKETBALL this year.

[RiverCityDawg]

Mayden was the best passer in the spring in my eyes as well. I went to one practice and watched the game on record. Im not sure Shrader will ever get a real shot. Him and KT are the most likely to transfer. I just dont think either throws it that well. Shrader had a lot of growing up to do as well.

KT has great intangibles and is a Dawg so he will stay till the end of the season but if I had to put money on it right now I would say he transfers in January and we have a real ''QB battle'' next year between Mayden, Shrader and Rogers. Rogers is planning on graduating early to make spring ball as well

Joe has said multiple times that KT was clearly QB1 coming out of spring, so unless Mayden makes a jump in fall practice, he'll be third (not counting any game(s) KT may be suspended).

Shrader is Joe's handpicked guy from way back. No way he leaves unless Rogers at some point passes him, which seems unlikely. Dak looked like garbage as a passer the first 2 springs he was here, so I'm not basing anything on Shader's "should be at prom instead" spring. He's big and fast with a good arm and ran a similar offense in high school. He's got a good shot to be the guy next year.

[WinningIsRelentless]

He isn?t the only one suspend. Gay is suspended also. They shared the same tutor as Nick Wearherspoon.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Just did some research on Will Rogers. Nice get. Essentially raised in a in a locker room, so to speak. Good football smarts.

[msstate7]

If will Rogers gets an OM offer and flips, he'll immediately become no big loss haha

[Jarius]

If will Rogers gets an OM offer and flips, he'll immediately become no big loss haha

Will Rogers will not go to ole miss if they offer him.

[RougeDawg]

He isn?t the only one suspend. Gay is suspended also. They shared the same tutor as Nick Wearherspoon.

Better watch out. This board will crucify you like they did me in February when I said nick was done and this was more than basketball. Then when I vehemently said we were on the QB search for a starter and KT was not going to be the guy.

Where are all of those people who attacked me for trying to give a heads up on what was coming, without actually reporting it too early?

[NCDawg]

Man I sure do hope we are good at BASKETBALL this year.

What does this response have to do with my question about KT?

[WinningIsRelentless]

Better watch out. This board will crucify you like they did me in February when I said nick was done and this was more than basketball. Then when I vehemently said we were on the QB search for a starter and KT was not going to be the guy.

Where are all of those people who attacked me for trying to give a heads up on what was coming, without actually reporting it too early?

Screw?em!

[TNDawg35]

What does this response have to do with my question about KT?

He’s answering your question... KT got in trouble for the same thing a basketball player did...

[NCDawg]

He’s answering your question... KT got in trouble for the same thing a basketball player did...

OK, I didn't understand. Guess we don't want to publicize it too much and I should have read though the lines.

[Bothrops]

Key ain't redshirting.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If will Rogers gets an OM offer and flips, he'll immediately become no big loss haha

Neither of those are going to happen. OM could offer him and he'd say no.

[justwin]

Just listening to Bo Bounds & it's like these media guys don't think.

"Gonna be a competition"; "Boff Stefens & Key will pl-aaaay"

Here is what's going happen:

- Tommy Stevens is going to start at QB for Mississippi State. Of course, don't argue with it.

- KT is going to be red shirted, but, since red shirts can play in 4 games, those 4 games will be used when he is needed as a "fireman" Meaning, if it's a blow out, he ain't playing. If we are at Auburn and the score is 21-17 in the 4th quarter & Stevens rolls his ankle, KT will play.

- The biggest debate with our QB situation is who gets the blowout snaps. Does Moorhead punt on Mayden & give those snaps to Shrader or does Moorhead believe enough in Mayden to give him snaps? With Schrader also red shirting, IMO it would behoove Moorhead to save Shrader's action for when he can play an entire quarter or so. No sense in wasting one of his games to kneel the ball or play one series.

Here is a guess of how the QB situation will shake out per game: In this I've got 7 possible games that KT could play in, but we can only use him in 4 of those.

This is not rocket science.

https://i.imgur.com/uxfM4df.jpg

good question

Joe's biggest mistake in year 1 is he should've never sat Key after game 1. Key deserved to play and he won SEC POY. If you build a program based on merit, he deserved to play. Then, he should've worked Fitz back in with packages. Best thing is you can tell Joe has learned from this. So, I don't think he's looking to restrict any of the QBs to the 4 game rule. When Joe was hired, he spoke of wanting to score as many points as possible. I'm not going to call Joe a run up the score kind of coach, but more of the spurrier mold in that if/when the backups or backups to backups go in, we are going to run our playbook. So, its going to be nice to try to score 60 vs the nonconf teams and smaller SEC teams as that's how you build an offensive identity and public commitment to evolving the historic MSU run first O by incorporating a complementary downfield passing attack.

Have you ever considered the QB snap distribution by TD passes? I hope we throw 35+ tds as a team this year.

here is a staggering stat ~ total passing TDs since 2009:

2018 22 (Key had 6)
2017 17
2016 24
2015 33 (29 from Dak)
2014 31 (27 from Dak Attack)
2013 18 (tyler threw 5 & was injured game 1)
2012 28 (tyler threw 24 as 1st yr starter)
2011 19
2010 19
2009 18

hard to believe that in the last decade of cfb with such an emphasis on passing, the MSU high water mark is 33 total TD passes.

We can have another Dak. Our program is built for it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Key ain't redshirting.

So we're just going to waste another year?

[msstate7]

Neither of those are going to happen. OM could offer him and he'd say no.

Good deal. I thought there was concern over this at one time

[Todd4State]

good question

Joe's biggest mistake in year 1 is he should've never sat Key after game 1. Key deserved to play and he won SEC POY. If you build a program based on merit, he deserved to play. Then, he should've worked Fitz back in with packages. Best thing is you can tell Joe has learned from this. So, I don't think he's looking to restrict any of the QBs to the 4 game rule. When Joe was hired, he spoke of wanting to score as many points as possible. I'm not going to call Joe a run up the score kind of coach, but more of the spurrier mold in that if/when the backups or backups to backups go in, we are going to run our playbook. So, its going to be nice to try to score 60 vs the nonconf teams and smaller SEC teams as that's how you build an offensive identity and public commitment to evolving the historic MSU run first O by incorporating a complementary downfield passing attack.

Have you ever considered the QB snap distribution by TD passes? I hope we throw 35+ tds as a team this year.

here is a staggering stat ~ total passing TDs since 2009:

2018 22 (Key had 6)
2017 17
2016 24
2015 33 (29 from Dak)
2014 31 (27 from Dak Attack)
2013 18 (tyler threw 5 & was injured game 1)
2012 28 (tyler threw 24 as 1st yr starter)
2011 19
2010 19
2009 18

hard to believe that in the last decade of cfb with such an emphasis on passing, the MSU high water mark is 33 total TD passes.

We can have another Dak. Our program is built for it.

The fact that Fitz was a senior coming off of a horrific injury absolutely affected how we managed our QB situation last year. In hindsight we should have gone out and gotten Minchew and gotten Nick a medical redshirt.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Fitz was better than Key. Im not sure why this is even up for debate right now bc Fitz is gone. I love KT and Im pulling for him. He is a winner and always has been, great intangibles and he is loved by the whole team.

But the team knows more than anyone Tommy Stevens is going to start at QB. And he is probably going to be better than anyone else we've had except for Dak Prescott

[Coach34]

The fact that Fitz was a senior coming off of a horrific injury absolutely affected how we managed our QB situation last year. In hindsight we should have gone out and gotten Minchew and gotten Nick a medical redshirt.

Fitz ran the football a career high 221 times in 2018. He didnt need a medical RS- he was fine. He didnt run as wide open as he did in previous seasons because he was worried about getting those legs rolled again. The only problems Fitz had last season were drops and inferior coaching.

Proof is in the pudding- Fla's QB got alot better while ours got worse. KT was the same QB in 2018 he was in 2017.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Fitz ran the football a career high 221 times in 2018. He didnt need a medical RS- he was fine. He didnt run as wide open as he did in previous seasons because he was worried about getting those legs rolled again. The only problems Fitz had last season were drops and inferior coaching.

Proof is in the pudding- Fla's QB got alot better while ours got worse. KT was the same QB in 2018 he was in 2017.

Our coaches did all they could with Fitzgerald. There is a reason he is virtually the only QB to struggle to complete passes in this system. His WRs did not help him but he didnt make them better. He improved a lot after the LSU game bc he was actually playing the position. He even played ok against Bama. For whatever reason after the Egg bowl he decided to go back to athlete fitz and just try to get by and it showed. He struggled mentally with the reads, pre snap, post, all of it. It was something he had never ever done. From english to spanish. Mullen runs the most QB friendly offense in the league probably. And I loved Fitz, there is a reason we stuck with him as well. He always played hard and left it all out there every single game. But Moorhead requires more mental ability than physical and its not bc Fitz is dumb, it was just too much for him to learn in the amount of time he had and in this league it was a recipe for some bad offense against better defenses

[Coach34]

Our coaches did all they could with Fitzgerald. There is a reason he is virtually the only QB to struggle to complete passes in this system. His WRs did not help him but he didnt make them better. He improved a lot after the LSU game bc he was actually playing the position. He even played ok against Bama. For whatever reason after the Egg bowl he decided to go back to athlete fitz and just try to get by and it showed. He struggled mentally with the reads, pre snap, post, all of it. It was something he had never ever done. From english to spanish. Mullen runs the most QB friendly offense in the league probably. And I loved Fitz, there is a reason we stuck with him as well. He always played hard and left it all out there every single game. But Moorhead requires more mental ability than physical and its not bc Fitz is dumb, it was just too much for him to learn in the amount of time he had and in this league it was a recipe for some bad offense against better defenses

We'll just disagree. I think you will see some QB struggles this Fall also. SEC defenses play man and force the issue on RPO's. JoVester turned a 55% career passer in his 5th year into a 50% passer. Thats not good coaching no matter how you try to spin it. Look at what Mullen did with Franks- made him carry the ball 110 times- double from the year before- but improved his completion percentage by 4%. JoVester's job is to improve his QB and tailor the offense to what he does best. He didnt do that. A 5th year Sr got worse under JoVester. I think it's more about JoVester adjusting to the SEC- not who the QB is. 2019 will be interesting

[BuckyIsAB****]

We'll just disagree. I think you will see some QB struggles this Fall also. SEC defenses play man and force the issue on RPO's. JoVester turned a 55% career passer in his 5th year into a 50% passer. Thats not good coaching no matter how you try to spin it. Look at what Mullen did with Franks- made him carry the ball 110 times- double from the year before- but improved his completion percentage by 4%. JoVester's job is to improve his QB and tailor the offense to what he does best. He didnt do that. A 5th year Sr got worse under JoVester. I think it's more about JoVester adjusting to the SEC- not who the QB is. 2019 will be interesting

Moorhead could have given Fitz more key screens and bubbles to help is percentage (some of that is on Fitz for not making the right read bc every play has a backside bubble or shoot route usually, as I said) Mullen did a good job of this, especially against us if you remember. They hurt us that game with key screens.

[maroonmania]

Additionally, by redshirting him, you're doing KT right. He keeps two years to play &, if he doesn't win the QB job next Spring, he's got 2 years to transfer to ULL or Tulane, both of which schools he'd likely get immediate eligibility

Guess I'm not following. Would seem the only reason for KT to redshirt this season would be if he wants to transfer this season. Unless he somehow gets a "hardship" that allows him immediate eligibility somewhere else next year, if he redshirts here this year, then he would burn a year sitting out next year. Seems like whatever he does, redshirt or not, if he stays at MSU this football season and has to sit out a year he will only have one year of eligibility left at another FBS program. Am I missing something?

[Coach34]

Moorhead could have given Fitz more key screens and bubbles to help is percentage (some of that is on Fitz for not making the right read bc every play has a backside bubble or shoot route usually, as I said) Mullen did a good job of this, especially against us if you remember. They hurt us that game with key screens.

Exactly. Where was the tunnel screen with Guidry or Mitchell? Where was a key or bubble screen with our quick slots? How do you not inject those into the offense? Where were the TB screens? This is why he is JoVester

[Coach34]

Guess I'm not following. Would seem the only reason for KT to redshirt this season would be if he wants to transfer this season. Unless he somehow gets a "hardship" that allows him immediate eligibility somewhere else next year, if he redshirts here this year, then he would burn a year sitting out next year. Seems like whatever he does, redshirt or not, if he stays at MSU this football season and has to sit out a year he will only have one year of eligibility left at another FBS program. Am I missing something?

If Stevens is our QB in 2019- it would be stupid to not to RS KT. We wont be ahead enough to burn his 4 game RS- especially after KT's suspension

[ShotgunDawg]

Guess I'm not following. Would seem the only reason for KT to redshirt this season would be if he wants to transfer this season. Unless he somehow gets a "hardship" that allows him immediate eligibility somewhere else next year, if he redshirts here this year, then he would burn a year sitting out next year. Seems like whatever he does, redshirt or not, if he stays at MSU this football season and has to sit out a year he will only have one year of eligibility left at another FBS program. Am I missing something?

Redshirting KT this year gives him two years to start.

[Coach34]

Our coaches did all they could with Fitzgerald.

This is where we disagree 100%. Our coaches made him worse as a 5th year starter. They didnt throw any screens. They didnt incorporate anything to make some very easy throws. They incorporated a NE friendly, Big Ten offense that doesnt work in the SEC like it does in the NorthEast. They face so much more pressure and man coverage in the SEC than they have faced in the Northeast. Hopefully they learned their lesson and have adjusted

[HoopsDawg]

This is where we disagree 100%. Our coaches made him worse as a 5th year starter. They didnt throw any screens. They didnt incorporate anything to make some very easy throws. They incorporated a NE friendly, Big Ten offense that doesnt work in the SEC like it does in the NorthEast. They face so much more pressure and man coverage in the SEC than they have faced in the Northeast. Hopefully they learned their lesson and have adjusted

Last year was a joke offensively. I'm tired of our fans blaming Fitz. It was at least 50% Moorhead. I'm really trying to stay open-minded and hopeful for this upcoming season.

[maroonmania]

Redshirting KT this year gives him two years to start.

Oh yea, no doubt it does him right if he stays, but I thought you were talking about doing him right should he decide to leave. If he leaves its the same situation for him either way.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Exactly. Where was the tunnel screen with Guidry or Mitchell? Where was a key or bubble screen with our quick slots? How do you not inject those into the offense? Where were the TB screens? This is why he is JoVester

Jovester problem is he thinks he has to outsmart every coach, hence the snap always at 1 on play clock. He needs to think our balls are bigger and I don?t care what you are showing we are going to stuff up your backside.

[maroonmania]

He had been on campus what, 2 and a half months at that point. Dak didn?t look like much the first spring after EE?ing. It would be crazy to evaluate an EE in his first spring

Dak is not a good comparison to use though because he was a huge outlier and way out of the norm. There has NEVER been a QB at MSU that i've ever witnessed that improved from his FR year to his SR year the way Dak did. Especially with regards to his passing accuracy. Hard to expect that as the norm. Most guys that aren't accurate as FR (like Fitz) never become accurate.

[Todd4State]

Fitz ran the football a career high 221 times in 2018. He didnt need a medical RS- he was fine. He didnt run as wide open as he did in previous seasons because he was worried about getting those legs rolled again. The only problems Fitz had last season were drops and inferior coaching.

Proof is in the pudding- Fla's QB got alot better while ours got worse. KT was the same QB in 2018 he was in 2017.

Healthwise- yes he was fine. But he could have used a complete year and a half to learn the offense. He was missing wide open people consistently all year long. Most obviously on the flea flicker against Alabama. I remember one of his INT's against Iowa we had a guy running down the field completely uncovered and Fitz forced it in to a guy that was double or triple covered and it got picked.


His stats were essentially the same his sophomore through senior year. He didn't progress under Dan either from his sophomore to junior year. And he missed the Stephen F Austin game where he would have padded his stats as he was only responsible for 2 fewer TD's last year than he was in 2017. Which also likely would have padded his completion percentage up a point or two closer to his 55% his junior year. He still had more TD's and fewer INT's last year even while missing SFA and had the most rushing attempts he ever had in his career under Joe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fitzgerald_(American_football)


And have you seen Fitz throw a screen? He fires them in at 100 MPH for some reason.

[Todd4State]

Dak is not a good comparison to use though because he was a huge outlier and way out of the norm. There has NEVER been a QB at MSU that i've ever witnessed that improved from his FR year to his SR year the way Dak did. Especially with regards to his passing accuracy. Hard to expect that as the norm. Most guys that aren't accurate as FR (like Fitz) never become accurate.

Dak also played in a similar spread system in high school to what Dan ran at MSU. Fitzgerald ran a triple option offense and rarely threw the ball and only played QB in high school one season. He came to MSU way behind the curve compared to most D-I high school QB's. If he had played in a system similar to even say Dan Mullen's in high school he probably wouldn't have been nearly as raw.

There's a reason why MSU and MTSU were the only ones to recruit him.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Exactly. Where was the tunnel screen with Guidry or Mitchell? Where was a key or bubble screen with our quick slots? How do you not inject those into the offense? Where were the TB screens? This is why he is JoVester

They are built into Moorheads offense, its part of the QBs read on just about every single play that involves a handoff. Fitz just either made the wrong decision or threw a duck, we dropped it or couldnt block them on the perimeter. Like I said, its a perfect storm of bad WRs and fish out of water QB.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Redshirting KT this year gives him two years to start.

Yall can hang all this up. He aint gonna take a RS and IMO he shouldnt take one. He has too much pride and belief in himself to do it. If I was him I would leave too and go somewhere else and play. He has done a lot for this school already no shame in leaving if he doesnt win the job.

[BuckyIsAB****]

This is where we disagree 100%. Our coaches made him worse as a 5th year starter. They didnt throw any screens. They didnt incorporate anything to make some very easy throws. They incorporated a NE friendly, Big Ten offense that doesnt work in the SEC like it does in the NorthEast. They face so much more pressure and man coverage in the SEC than they have faced in the Northeast. Hopefully they learned their lesson and have adjusted

Im guessing nobody in the B10 knows to play man coverage to the RB side or straight man and bring pressure then. Im 99 percent sure Moorhead saw that in the B10. It does help having better players than your opponent and he had that 9/10 at Penn St considering who they played.

I would agree with you if you said he was too confident in his system considering what he had to work with ( a QB who cant do it and WRs that cant either) and still trying to run his offense. He could have done a much better job of adjusting to what he had but in his eyes he figured year 1 was worth the rough spots on O in order to put his system in instead of actually starting it in year 2. I can understand that

[Todd4State]

They are built into Moorheads offense, its part of the QBs read on just about every single play that involves a handoff. Fitz just either made the wrong decision or threw a duck, we dropped it or couldnt block them on the perimeter. Like I said, its a perfect storm of bad WRs and fish out of water QB.

Or usually throw a missile at someone.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Or usually throw a missile at someone.

Or hit a guy in stride and he drops it. I will always love Fitz. He was a cheap ankle injury away from being undefeated vs OM

[Todd4State]

Or hit a guy in stride and he drops it. I will always love Fitz. He was a cheap ankle injury away from being undefeated vs OM

Well, I was talking specifically about screen passes. But I will say that our WR's rarely did him any favors either when they actually had a catchable ball.

Thankfully Joe appears to be correcting Dan's recruiting issues- which is actually the main reason why we struggled on offense last year if we're really being honest with ourselves. Players like Heath are going to thrive in this system.

[Coach007]

Fitz ran the football a career high 221 times in 2018. He didnt need a medical RS- he was fine. He didnt run as wide open as he did in previous seasons because he was worried about getting those legs rolled again. The only problems Fitz had last season were drops and inferior coaching.

Proof is in the pudding- Fla's QB got alot better while ours got worse. KT was the same QB in 2018 he was in 2017.

BS!

His issue last year was the new reads that he was making late and that caused late passes.

The reason FL's QB got better was because of a dumbed down system Mullen put in.

[Jarius]

Fitz was terrible throwing the football last year. This offense worked against some SEC level defenses in the big 10. Michigan and Ohio State have better defenses than everyone but 2 or 3 teams on our schedule every single year. Wisconsin has an SEC defense. Michigan state has an SEC defense.

[MarketingBully]

Jovester, really? That is a dumb as shit nickname.

[maroonmania]

Dak also played in a similar spread system in high school to what Dan ran at MSU. Fitzgerald ran a triple option offense and rarely threw the ball and only played QB in high school one season. He came to MSU way behind the curve compared to most D-I high school QB's. If he had played in a system similar to even say Dan Mullen's in high school he probably wouldn't have been nearly as raw.

There's a reason why MSU and MTSU were the only ones to recruit him.

Dak was just special. I would put Relf and Russell right there with Fitz in that their passing accuracy didn't improve that much over their career at MSU even though they had the same coaching that Dak did.

[Maroonthirteen]

Jovester problem is he thinks he has to outsmart every coach, hence the snap always at 1 on play clock. He needs to think our balls are bigger and I don?t care what you are showing we are going to stuff up your backside.

This ^^^^ all day. Sometimes you just have to use Jackie’s playbook. Here we are. That’s where are going. Try to stop us.

[maroonmania]

Jovester, really? That is a dumb as shit nickname.

I agree, just the recruiting effort should stop that crap. Croom couldn't give effort to get out of his golf cart long enough to recruit someone. Making that comparison is ridiculous.

[msstate7]

Dak was just special. I would put Relf and Russell right there with Fitz in that their passing accuracy didn't improve that much over their career at MSU even though they had the same coaching that Dak did.

Relf, Russell, dak, and fitz improved completion % every year under Mullen... this doesn't include their SSS freshman stats. This was the first year since before Mullen that the returning qb didn't improve completion %, which is the stat C34 used

[ShotgunDawg]

This ^^^^ all day. Sometimes you just have to use Jackie’s playbook. Here we are. That’s where are going. Try to stop us.

In moderation, yes. However, with less talent than Bama, LSU, Auby, & A&M, this simply won't consistently work.

[msstate7]

In moderation, yes. However, with less talent than Bama, LSU, Auby, & A&M, this simply won't consistently work.

Less talent won't consistently work with any system

[ShotgunDawg]

Less talent won't consistently work with any system

It's why there has to be some gimmick with perfect timing & selection

It's why IMO Hugh Freeze always did better against elite competition than Mullen. Mullen wanted to stick to his system while Freeze wasn't afraid to throw in some gimmick

Against elite defenses, you've got to try and steal a touchdown somehow, someway

[msstate7]

It's why there has to be some gimmick with perfect timing & selection

It's why IMO Hugh Freeze always did better against elite competition than Mullen. Mullen wanted to stick to his system while Freeze wasn't afraid to throw in some gimmick

Against elite defenses, you've got to try and steal a touchdown somehow, someway

It's also why he lost to Memphis and ark with superior talent.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's also why he lost to Memphis and ark with superior talent.

Agree. There is certainly a give & take element to it.

Which would you rather have?

- I believe much of the reason they loss to Memphis & Ark wasn't necessarily because of gimmick, but because of a lack of discipline & culture as we spoke about in the other thread. You can't measure culture in big games. Culture is about taking care of business when you should.

[msstate7]

Agree. There is certainly a give & take element to it.

Which would you rather have?

- I believe much of the reason they loss to Memphis & Ark wasn't necessarily because of gimmick, but because of a lack of discipline & culture as we spoke about in the other thread. You can't measure culture in big games. Culture is about taking care of business when you should.

I really don't know. I just can't picture how we can consistently contend in the west with such a talent disadvantage.

[ShotgunDawg]

I really don't know. I just can't picture how we can consistently contend in the west with such a talent disadvantage.

Consistently won't happen.

However, if we can get to around 35 4/5 star players on the roster, get an elite SEC QB, & have Bama & LSU at home, we've got a chance to steal one.

We were close in 99 & 2014 had Bama on the road. That game always seems to be a road game.

Throw Dak Prescott on last year's roster with 2019 schedule & we've got a solid shot

[maroonmania]

Relf, Russell, dak, and fitz improved completion % every year under Mullen... this doesn't include their SSS freshman stats. This was the first year since before Mullen that the returning qb didn't improve completion %, which is the stat C34 used

Agree to disagree. Mullen increased percentage by throwing a ton of check downs. The inherent passing accuracy of those QBs only marginally improved even under Mullen. Dak is the only one that I saw a significant difference in pure accuracy from start of career to end of career. Relf was in no way accurate even as a SR, I don't care what the % says. I watched him as most here did. But yea, he was better than under Croom where he got zero coaching. Even Russell could never hit anyone accurately beyond about 20 yards. I could count on one hand the number passes Russell completed to receivers well downfield. Always an overthrow or an underthrow.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I really don't know. I just can't picture how we can consistently contend in the west with such a talent disadvantage.

Maybe because the recruiting sites dont know the talent

[BuckyIsAB****]

Fitz was terrible throwing the football last year. This offense worked against some SEC level defenses in the big 10. Michigan and Ohio State have better defenses than everyone but 2 or 3 teams on our schedule every single year. Wisconsin has an SEC defense. Michigan state has an SEC defense.

Iowa was solid on defense as well. All of those teams are well coached on defense and they dont make a lot of mistakes. They wait on you to make a big one, we did and thats why we lost. Good points

[Lord McBuckethead]

Im guessing nobody in the B10 knows to play man coverage to the RB side or straight man and bring pressure then. Im 99 percent sure Moorhead saw that in the B10. It does help having better players than your opponent and he had that 9/10 at Penn St considering who they played.

I would agree with you if you said he was too confident in his system considering what he had to work with ( a QB who cant do it and WRs that cant either) and still trying to run his offense. He could have done a much better job of adjusting to what he had but in his eyes he figured year 1 was worth the rough spots on O in order to put his system in instead of actually starting it in year 2. I can understand that

Bingo. It didnt matter. We needed his system installed year 1.

[Johnson85]

It's why there has to be some gimmick with perfect timing & selection

It's why IMO Hugh Freeze always did better against elite competition than Mullen. Mullen wanted to stick to his system while Freeze wasn't afraid to throw in some gimmick

Against elite defenses, you've got to try and steal a touchdown somehow, someway

Freeze had some success against elite competition because he had an elite defense a couple of years and he always had elite talent at WR. Having elite talent at WR means you can score in one play from pretty much anywhere, which means you don't necessarily have to sustain long drives to score. Mullen never had an elite WR, and probably only Wilson, Ross, and Bumphis even qualified as being good and would have gotten starter minutes for most other teams in the SEC.

If you want to beat inferior opponents, you'd rather have an elite running game than an elite passing game. You can grind them down and reduce variability. If you want to beat superior opponents, you want an elite passing game that can increase variability.

Even then, Freeze only beat Bama in Tuscaloosa b/c they benefited from a lot of turnovers and a fluke off the helmet TD reception and Bama D getting suckered by illegal men downfield, and they only beat Bama in Oxford b/c Bama's OC was too good just to run the ball for six yards a carry and had to get cute with passing.