Article on Athletic re: Moorhead and LSU

[RiverCityDawg]

You have to have a subscription to read it, but there's an interesting article on the Athletic about how LSU wants to incorporate RPO's into their scheme so their new WR coach Joe Brady has installed a bunch from what he learned working with Moorhead as a GA at Penn State in 2016. Lots of praise given to Moorhead about his scheme and several quotes from Moorhead too. He even called Ed O when he hired Brady to tell him he got a good one.

This is about the third article I've read during the offseason that talks about former Penn State assistants that learned a ton from Joe and his scheme and have taken it to wherever they are now. I have to believe that this thing will work in time and with the right trigger man.

[ShotgunDawg]

I have long maintained that Joe is too accomplished and his resume too full to be as bad as he was last year.

There is just simply no way that he would've had the impact on peoples careers he's had, had the articles written about him that he has, and put together the offenses at different levels that he has if he were as bad as he was last year.

Again, averages usually average out and this man was way below his average last year and among all the preseason prognostications, this may be the single thing that makes the biggest difference for us.

[msudawg1200]

Again, and I hate to keep saying it, but I don’t think many realize just how bad our QB’s were at throwing the forward pass last year. I think we see a vast improvement with Mr. Stevens at QB this year.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Again, and I hate to keep saying it, but I don’t think many realize just how bad our QB’s were at throwing the forward pass last year. I think we see a vast improvement with Mr. Stevens at QB this year.

Yep. At the end of the day the only thing you can do to avoid the QB being involved is call a straight hand off. Everything else ran through Fitz making reads. Fitz had no freaking clue what he was doing at any level. Even run play, if you watch there were several times where he'd take it straight up the middle when there was never any room, and the RB would have gotten several outside. His ability to read was even worse passing; remember the flea flicker vs Bama where Dedric Thomas was wide open and Fitz just held it? Literally the simplest play from the QB's mental perspective and he wasn't even looking at the #1. The famous Guidry drop vs Iowa? That's still on Guidry, but let's remember Fitz was throwing to a guy 10 yards away.

Watching replays of plays last year the WRs got separation at a very respectable rate. They really did. Problem with their perception was

1) Fitz didn't go through his reads: when a QB guns a ball into double coverage we naturally assume that no WR was open, but in actuality often there was and Fitz just didn't check.

2) When Fitz did hit them, they dropped it. This is a legitimate criticism.

Will the new WR coach fix the drops? Will Stevens use more touch? Will he place the ball better? IDK, but if they stopped dropping it and had a QB that went through his progressions I really don't think anyone would have a problem with them.

[msudawg1200]

Yes, I should’ve added reads in there also. And that is reads from a pass and run perspective. I’m not knocking Fitz. That guy played his rear end off and took a beating for us. He just was what he was, another running back. I think more accuracy will help ourWR’s also. It is easier to prepare to catch a ball when you know it’ll be close. I think our WR’s with the additions of Zuber and Payton will be the most improved unit on the team.I expect vast improvement overall from the offense this year. I’m still on the JoMo train.

[gravedigger]

I have long maintained that Joe is too accomplished and his resume too full to be as bad as he was last year.

There is just simply no way that he would've had the impact on peoples careers he's had, had the articles written about him that he has, and put together the offenses at different levels that he has if he were as bad as he was last year.

Again, averages usually average out and this man was way below his average last year and among all the preseason prognostications, this may be the single thing that makes the biggest difference for us.

Define LONG MAINTAINED. I seem to remember a quite different vibe not too long ago.

[Political Hack]

Nobody has given him any time to see how he handles being a P5 head coach. It's going to take 3-4 years to know how his system works, even with "his" QB this year. He doesn't have his OL, his RB, his WRs, his TEs...

[Maroonthirteen]

After watching his YouTube videos and media clinic videos, it looks to me Joe is teaching common core math. When the traditional method will do and gets the same answer quick and with more success by the student.

With that said, I hope joe is successful. It just isn’t the recipe that has worked at State.

[ShotgunDawg]

After watching his YouTube videos and media clinic videos, it looks to me Joe is teaching common core math. When the traditional method will do and gets the same answer quick and with more success by the student.

With that said, I hope joe is successful. It just isn’t the recipe that has worked at State.

1. Mullen didn't win anything at MSU and struggled vs good defenses. So we can't say his way worked either.

2. We've never had a coach try to do what Moorhead is doing. Not sure how we know it won't work.

3. Yes, RTGDF has typically been MSU's best offense, but it's terribly limiting. You can't beat great defenses doing that.

[BrunswickDawg]

1. Mullen didn't win anything at MSU and struggled vs good defenses. So we can't say his way worked either.

2. We've never had a coach try to do what Moorhead is doing. Not sure how we know it won't work.

3. Yes, RTGDF has typically been MSU's best offense, but it's terribly limiting. You can't beat great defenses doing that.

And where exactly has RTGDF gotten us? It's no coincidence that our best seasons since SEC expansion came when we had a competent passing attack to go with it - '99 (highest per game passing yard average in JWS era) & '14 (2nd highest per game in Mullen era)

[Maroonthirteen]

no coincidence that our best seasons since SEC expansion came when we had a competent passing attack to go with it - '99 (highest per game passing yard average in JWS era) & '14 (2nd highest per game in Mullen era)

That’s interesting.

[BrunswickDawg]

That’s interesting.

Add to it, that our best passing season ever - '15 - coincided with our worst rushing year under Mullen and still got us 9 wins. So it is possible to win at MSU passing the football.

To me, the greatest "what if" of the Mullen era is if Josh Robinson and had stayed for '15 (or if Dan had played Aeris more) we might have exceeded '14s win total.

[gravedigger]

After watching his YouTube videos and media clinic videos, it looks to me Joe is teaching common core math. When the traditional method will do and gets the same answer quick and with more success by the student.

With that said, I hope joe is successful. It just isn?t the recipe that has worked at State.

Perhaps we fans think explanations by the coach to the media are the way he works with the player. I would not think that is the case.

Joe will get the players that can run it. Can we keep him ? Winning in the shadow of Tuscaloosa and Baton Rouge could wear on a soul.

At some point, maybe not with Joe, but we are going to need to convince the right person to stay long term and change our perception or rather continue it?s change. If Im Cohen, I get that plan in place now. All it takes is an unexpected win and a rash of untimely firings for the script to flip.

His offense is unique enough to garner attention.

[Maroonthirteen]

Iowa boobled TD turned int.....

Fitz threw it from the 26. Guidry was 5 yards deep in the end zone. 31 yard pass.

[Coach007]

Yep. At the end of the day the only thing you can do to avoid the QB being involved is call a straight hand off. Everything else ran through Fitz making reads. Fitz had no freaking clue what he was doing at any level. Even run play, if you watch there were several times where he'd take it straight up the middle when there was never any room, and the RB would have gotten several outside. His ability to read was even worse passing; remember the flea flicker vs Bama where Dedric Thomas was wide open and Fitz just held it? Literally the simplest play from the QB's mental perspective and he wasn't even looking at the #1. The famous Guidry drop vs Iowa? That's still on Guidry, but let's remember Fitz was throwing to a guy 10 yards away.

Watching replays of plays last year the WRs got separation at a very respectable rate. They really did. Problem with their perception was

1) Fitz didn't go through his reads: when a QB guns a ball into double coverage we naturally assume that no WR was open, but in actuality often there was and Fitz just didn't check.

2) When Fitz did hit them, they dropped it. This is a legitimate criticism.

Will the new WR coach fix the drops? Will Stevens use more touch? Will he place the ball better? IDK, but if they stopped dropping it and had a QB that went through his progressions I really don't think anyone would have a problem with them.

I add to that "Timing" Alot of the times that Fitz "saw" it, he was late. That resulted in a hard throw, or timing being off.

[MetEdDawg]

After watching his YouTube videos and media clinic videos, it looks to me Joe is teaching common core math. When the traditional method will do and gets the same answer quick and with more success by the student.

With that said, I hope joe is successful. It just isn’t the recipe that has worked at State.

Potentially why we've never had long term success maybe??

We have to recruit different kids to win. We know that. But to say that type of winning hasn't worked at State really doesn't mean much since we've never really won anything in football.

Time to change and try something a little different. Moorhead is the best fit for that.

[Doggie_Style]

Does anyone think we will see the same tempo on offence this year....everyone staring at the sideline with confused looks then after endless checkdowns finally snapping it with 5 or less seconds on the clock? Or was it just a personel issue?

[Coach007]

Does anyone think we will see the same tempo on offence this year....everyone staring at the sideline with confused looks then after endless checkdowns finally snapping it with 5 or less seconds on the clock? Or was it just a personel issue?

I believe we will be capable of a faster tempo... We may not choose to use it.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Iowa boobled TD turned int.....

Fitz threw it from the 26. Guidry was 5 yards deep in the end zone. 31 yard pass.

... in which Fitz was 10 yards off of his intended man. Guidry should have had it, but it was a god awful throw from Fitz and pure luck that our man was near where it ended up. Fitz got screwed by his WRs 2x last year: vs kentucky where we had 3-4 clear drops, and vs Florida. Mitchel dropped the only perfect pass of the season.

[Cowbell]

Add to it, that our best passing season ever - '15 - coincided with our worst rushing year under Mullen and still got us 9 wins. So it is possible to win at MSU passing the football.

To me, the greatest "what if" of the Mullen era is if Josh Robinson and had stayed for '15 (or if Dan had played Aeris more) we might have exceeded '14s win total.

Add to that Bear leaving early. That team could have been hard for anyone to stop. I?m sure they both have their regrets.

[ShotgunDawg]

Add to that Bear leaving early. That team could have been hard for anyone to stop. I?m sure they both have their regrets.

Bear was there in 15 but I’ll never understand why both of those guys didn’t receive better advice.

[R2Dawg]

And where exactly has RTGDF gotten us? It's no coincidence that our best seasons since SEC expansion came when we had a competent passing attack to go with it - '99 (highest per game passing yard average in JWS era) & '14 (2nd highest per game in Mullen era)

Interesting we were not good running the ball in 1999 but had one nasty D. Nasty D and run the ball has won Bama quite a few NC. Last time I checked, if you can't score, you don't win. It will work but I agree if you don't have that, a balanced attack is best to beat a top D.

[Tbonewannabe]

Interesting we were not good running the ball in 1999 but had one nasty D. Nasty D and run the ball has won Bama quite a few NC. Last time I checked, if you can't score, you don't win. It will work but I agree if you don't have that, a balanced attack is best to beat a top D.

It has been a while since Bama was a run heavy team.

[msstate7]

It has been a while since Bama was a run heavy team.

Bama run
2018: 56.6%
2017: 64.8%

[MedDawg]

I add to that "Timing" Alot of the times that Fitz "saw" it, he was late. That resulted in a hard throw, or timing being off.

This. A lot of pass plays that were broken up were thrown a second too late, especially across the middle. Thrown on time, they might have been completions. Also several completions to wide open receivers were off enough to cause the receiver to catch it but fall down. More accurate passes would have allowed the receivers to catch it and keep running, possibly for TDs. Plus, as others have mentioned, there were often wide open receivers who simply were not seen by Fitz.

[Coach34]

... in which Fitz was 10 yards off of his intended man. Guidry should have had it, but it was a god awful throw from Fitz and pure luck that our man was near where it ended up. Fitz got screwed by his WRs 2x last year: vs kentucky where we had 3-4 clear drops, and vs Florida. Mitchel dropped the only perfect pass of the season.

This is complete BS and has become just another of the many Miss State message board legends. Fitz was throwing to Guidry and hit him exactly where it was supposed to be. And Guidry was being Guidry- just as he did this Spring and like he will in 2019.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This is complete BS and has become just another of the many Miss State message board legends. Fitz was throwing to Guidry and hit him exactly where it was supposed to be. And Guidry was being Guidry- just as he did this Spring and like he will in 2019.

https://youtu.be/5oT7-m3eWO0?t=908

That's the play. Notice that 81 is going towards the sideline and obviously thinks it for him- he stops his route and jumps up, stretching a hand behind him to try to grab it. Either him or his defender tip it because the ball gets a horrible wobble after it passes them. Is it possible that Fitz as right and Johnson were wrong? Maybe, but in that case he still threw it where a defender could tip it so it's not like it was a perfect pass. We'll never know but imo it seems more likely he missed 81. I mean if you watched Fitz at all you know throwing it 5 yards high and behind is just as likely as being on target (sad lol)

You're right though that Guidry has, does, and probably will struggle with drops

[Coach34]

https://youtu.be/5oT7-m3eWO0?t=908

That's the play. Notice that 81 is going towards the sideline and obviously thinks it for him- he stops his route and jumps up, stretching a hand behind him to try to grab it. Either him or his defender tip it because the ball gets a horrible wobble after it passes them. Is it possible that Fitz as right and Johnson were wrong? Maybe, but in that case he still threw it where a defender could tip it so it's not like it was a perfect pass. We'll never know but imo it seems more likely he missed 81. I mean if you watched Fitz at all you know throwing it 5 yards high and behind is just as likely as being on target (sad lol)

You're right though that Guidry has, does, and probably will struggle with drops

Of course 81 thought it could have been to him because he was the underneath route under the post. But it's obvious the pass was the Guidry

[Todd4State]

In defense of Fitzgerald- he only played QB in high school for one year in a triple option system where he rarely threw the ball. So, he's not your typical SEC QB recruit that has been playing QB since 8th-9th grade in a spread system before he even set foot on a SEC campus. And then you factor in the injury and his attitude at times- getting suspended in game one, calling out MSU fans after Texas &M on Twitter, and spending most of his time off in Georgia with his girlfriend and it all kind of adds up.

[RougeDawg]

This. A lot of pass plays that were broken up were thrown a second too late, especially across the middle. Thrown on time, they might have been completions. Also several completions to wide open receivers were off enough to cause the receiver to catch it but fall down. More accurate passes would have allowed the receivers to catch it and keep running, possibly for TDs. Plus, as others have mentioned, there were often wide open receivers who simply were not seen by Fitz.

Wrong wrong wrong. They don?t call them watchers. They are called receivers. IE receivers catch what is thrown to them. Pitchers pitch, hitters hit and receivers catch. Plain and simple. Stop making excuses for your inability to rationalize with facts. Facts do not care what you think. They will be there forever, no matter how you attempt to inaccurately interpret them.

[BiscuitEater]

Again, and I hate to keep saying it, but I don?t think many realize just how bad our QB?s were at throwing the forward pass last year. I think we see a vast improvement with Mr. Stevens at QB this year.

Sure hope you're right.

Fitz was a 55% for his career .. Key is currently at 48% .. BUT, Tommy has thrown 41 college passes and is only at 55.8% with way better receivers at PSU.

Think that this being Joe's 'sophomore year,' everyone's second year in the system, Tommy knowing the offense, and WR addition will all translates to a better vertical passing game that wiil also help the running game.

[QuadrupleOption]

https://youtu.be/5oT7-m3eWO0?t=908

That's the play. Notice that 81 is going towards the sideline and obviously thinks it for him- he stops his route and jumps up, stretching a hand behind him to try to grab it. Either him or his defender tip it because the ball gets a horrible wobble after it passes them. Is it possible that Fitz as right and Johnson were wrong? Maybe, but in that case he still threw it where a defender could tip it so it's not like it was a perfect pass. We'll never know but imo it seems more likely he missed 81. I mean if you watched Fitz at all you know throwing it 5 yards high and behind is just as likely as being on target (sad lol)

You're right though that Guidry has, does, and probably will struggle with drops

That pass was 100% intended for Guidry, it arrived on-time and perfectly thrown. Guidry bobbled it and the DB did what he was supposed to do - which was intercept the ball.

Fitz wasn't/isn't a great passer, but our WRs were ****ing awful last season. If they don't get better we could have Tom Brady back there and it won't make a bit of difference.

[Tbonewannabe]

Bama run
2018: 56.6%
2017: 64.8%

I was completely wrong on this. I just went back and looked and since Tua has been QB they have been a little more pass heavy in games that mattered but with Jalen Hurts, they were pretty run heavy in all games. It looks like since they have gotten a better passer that they are skewing closer to 50/50 or leaning slightly to passing in games that they can't just line up and run it against cream puffs. We actually forced them to run it more because they couldn't pass very well.

Overall I was wrong though. That is what I get for just saying something without looking at the numbers although it does feel like Tua has been there a while now.

[msstate7]

I was completely wrong on this. I just went back and looked and since Tua has been QB they have been a little more pass heavy in games that mattered but with Jalen Hurts, they were pretty run heavy in all games. It looks like since they have gotten a better passer that they are skewing closer to 50/50 or leaning slightly to passing in games that they can't just line up and run it against cream puffs. We actually forced them to run it more because they couldn't pass very well.

Overall I was wrong though. That is what I get for just saying something without looking at the numbers although it does feel like Tua has been there a while now.

You may not be completely wrong. They win so many games handily that they probably run the ball at the end... this probably skews stats some

[Tbonewannabe]

That pass was 100% intended for Guidry, it arrived on-time and perfectly thrown. Guidry bobbled it and the DB did what he was supposed to do - which was intercept the ball.

Fitz wasn't/isn't a great passer, but our WRs were ****ing awful last season. If they don't get better we could have Tom Brady back there and it won't make a bit of difference.

The DB was 5 yards behind Guidry. That was as wide open as you typically get on a 20-30 yard pass play that isn't busted coverage. Guidry did the only thing that could have prevented us from not scoring on that drive. We at minimum kick a fg to take the lead. Now Iowa did go down the field and kick another fg after the int but momentum is probably really big there.

[Tbonewannabe]

You may not be completely wrong. They win so many games handily that they probably run the ball at the end... this probably skews stats some

Bottom line is they are passing more with Tua at QB but Saban has normally Run the ball and played defense. I think he has kind of changed his philosophy since getting better passing QBs. It isn't like he doesn't have a whole bench full of 5 star RBs.

[Homedawg]

Bear was there in 15 but I’ll never understand why both of those guys didn’t receive better advice.

Bear was given plenty of good advice. He chose to listen to the crap advice. As you know, it happens all the time. B. Brown, same thing.

[Homedawg]

Of course 81 thought it could have been to him because he was the underneath route under the post. But it's obvious the pass was the Guidry

Fitz stared at Guidry pretty much the entire way, so I'm saying this is the correct take.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Bama run
2018: 56.6%
2017: 64.8%


I was completely wrong on this. I just went back and looked and since Tua has been QB they have been a little more pass heavy in games that mattered but with Jalen Hurts, they were pretty run heavy in all games. It looks like since they have gotten a better passer that they are skewing closer to 50/50 or leaning slightly to passing in games that they can't just line up and run it against cream puffs. We actually forced them to run it more because they couldn't pass very well.

Overall I was wrong though. That is what I get for just saying something without looking at the numbers although it does feel like Tua has been there a while now.


You may not be completely wrong. They win so many games handily that they probably run the ball at the end... this probably skews stats some


Bottom line is they are passing more with Tua at QB but Saban has normally Run the ball and played defense. I think he has kind of changed his philosophy since getting better passing QBs. It isn't like he doesn't have a whole bench full of 5 star RBs.

Good data, 7, and an even better deduction about context. Overall Bama may have been a 57/43 run-pass team, but that was indeed because so many of their plays occurred in garbage time, which for them last year was most of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters in just about every game. The splits in 1st quarters only for them last year show that they slightly favored the pass before their games were out of reach:

Rush attempts: 136 (4th in SEC)
Pass attempts: 142 (1st in SEC)

That's a 51/49 split favoring the pass. That changed gradually across the second and third quarters, where they slightly favored the run in the 2nd and did so a little more in the 3rd. By the 4th quarter, things were, um, pretty different:

Rush attempts: 156 (1st in SEC)
Pass attempts: 54 (14th in SEC)

That's a 74/26 split favoring the run.

Breaking it down further by plays run at certain score differentials shows this trend even more starkly. When tied (which for Bama was probably mostly when the score was 0-0), Bama threw 79 passes (2nd in the SEC) and ran 60 times (10th in the SEC). That's a 55/45 split in favor of the pass. When they were up by 7 or less, the ratio was an even 50/50 and when they were up by between 8 and 14, the ratio was 53/47 in favor of the run. When they were up 15 or more, they rushed 321 times and passed 175 times. That's a 65/35 split. But the sheer number of plays they ran when up by that much is crazy. Of their 571 total rushes last year, 321 of them (which is 56%) happened when they were up by at least two touchdowns. Damnation.

Anywho, takeaway is that until games were decided, Bama was a pass-first team. I haven't looked at the entirety of Saban's tenure there, but my guess would be that this was a first for him while at Bama.