Finebaum Question on Why Attendance Is Declining...

[ShotgunDawg]

Of course, everyone focuses on ticket prices, except for Tim Brando

However, I present to you a question:

What would be more likely to make DWS packed out every game?

1. If the cost of going to the game was $0. Free tickets, concessions, & parking

2. If MSU had a semi-legitimate chance of winning the national championship & a home schedule with no powder puff games?

https://twitter.com/finebaum/status/1147231372869885952

https://twitter.com/TimBrando/status/1147238508299456517

[ShotgunDawg]

I believe it's #2.

I think the ticket price excuse is the excuse people use to justify not going to insignificant games & I think that's fair. However, the real problem is not the ticket prices, it's the lack of significant games.

If college football wants attendance & money making ability to go up, the answer is not to decrease prices. The answer is to increase the value of the product. Which means to add more significant games.

Cut scholarships to 70 & you have many many many more significant games within 2 years.

The cost of attending has just exceeded the value of the product. So just increase the value of the product.

[Political Hack]

Clemson vs Bama is great and everything, but I can watch that in 3 hours without the 13 week roller coaster.

[ShotgunDawg]

Clemson vs Bama is great and everything, but I can watch that in 3 hours without the 13 week roller coaster.

There are 65 power 5 programs & Notre Dame.

As we sit here in July, only about 6 teams have a faint hope of competing for the national championship. That means that 90% of the teams have already virtually been eliminated.

That's a terrible terrible business model if you want the other 90% to care & come to games.

The answer is not to expand the playoff. Expanding the playoff does nothing because the 3 overwhelming favorites will destroy any teams they add to the playoff.

The answer is more competitive games in the regular season, more often. More significant games, due to more parity in the sport.

The answer is so simple that it's mind boggling that people can't see it.

[ShotgunDawg]

I mean, why would any Bama fans buy season tickets?

For 1 game vs LSU that will end 33-6? Not 1 other Bama home game will be within 35 points.

So if you're a Bama fan, why go the game to watch a beat down when you could watch the first half on TV at home & then use the remote to find a significant, fun, close game?

Football season could be so so much more with some tweeks. I realize Bama fans would object to this, but honestly the season would be so much more fun for them as well.

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/102/297/9297102.gif

[WinningIsRelentless]

All of that has some to do with it, but in my opinion one big thing is never brought up. My kids are very active in sports and youth sports now are played year round minus about two months. The vast majority of the games or competitions are on the weekends now and not during the week like when I grew up.

[MetEdDawg]

There's not just one problem keeping people away. It's multiple problems.

1) Distance - Many colleges over the last quarter century have expanded their offerings and don't necessarily fit their immediate surrounding demographic anymore. Alumni are more decentralized more than ever now do travel back and forth has gotten further for a lot of folks.

2) Family - Before kids, I came to a ton of games. With a 4 and 2 year old, that becomes way more difficult. And add in #1 for me being a little over 2 hours away, I'm at 8 hours of my Saturday just from driving and game. That doesn't include anything else we might do.

3 - Cost - Yes there are cheap tickets options. But you have gas, food multiple meals, tickets, drinks, etc. yes you can pack stuff but you still have to buy that. And you will probably need drinks during the game.

4 - Flexibility of Home - At my house I can do whatever I want. I can get some yard work done during other games, I can go over and visit family and watch the game with them, I can watch tons of other games if I want.

5 - Evolution of Weekend Activities - Folks worming, kids being involved in sports, families using those times to go do other activities than watch football. Weekend, especially for working families, has become a haven of activities. Yes football could be one of them, but I can take mine to the science museum or the zoo, spend 1/3 as much as football and be 30 minutes from home.


There are other considerations but those are the big 4 for me. There's a lot of people that can pull from at least 2 of those categories and that's a deterrent. For me, I'm at 1,2, and 4. When you have 2 kids under the age of 5 and you are looking at 4 1/2 to 5 hours driving round trip, that's a tough sell to get me there. I can afford it, but do I want to lose an entire Saturday with 2 kids that young? Not particularly.

I think in a few years we will be able to do it better. When my kids are 8 and 5 or 7 and 4 it might be more feasible and I won't mind the drive as much. But for now it just doesn't fit with my family. We would love to get season tickets and could do it. But for those that bring 2 younger kids to games and actually keep track of them and watch them and can enjoy the game, bless you.

[Coach007]

Ok... Here are the reasons WHY it's dropping:

1- Most sports attendance is down. We have been advocating a non competitive nation for decades. We preach, teach that sports are not helpful and damages kids feeling when they don't win. Those people have grown up and have no interest believing that everybody gets a trophy. Rivalry is a bad word these days. The older generation is to the point where they can't attend.

2- prices do matter. That is a fact. responsible people know their pocket books. While MSU is a better price, others are expensive.

3- many other options to view the game. At one point, you would have to listen to the game if you did not attend. Now... you don't miss a game on TV. When you couple that with cost, you are gonna lose attendance, but not viewership.


The Answers to the problem...


1- Make Competitive sports great again. Allow kids to learn how to fail and grow into succeeding. It's ok to lose.... It's not ok to let losing defeat you. We are not talking about the players... we are talking the people who will eventually occupy or NOT occupy seats.

2- Keep prices reasonable. There is no reason why a Hot Dog should cost $25. (no, I know we cut prices... so obviously I'm not talking about us). Tickets.. Booster money plus the amount of the seats. Keep it real. The average "Joe" will be more willing to buy and attend.

3- The game needs to be exciting. Nobody want to watch a team that consistently goes 5-7....6-6... and isn't competitive. That is a rules issue. Not coaching. You have 22 starters, 1 punter, 1 kicker, 1 FG kicker. That 25. 2 deep puts you at 50. 3 deep is 75. A team can have 85 on scholarship. This allows the Bama and Clemson's of the world to stash players. Bama right now has 14 Four Stars and 2 five Stars committed.

We need Roster caps lower to at least 75.

4- Stop the cheating. Actually do something about what's going on. Why am I going to continue to pay money to attend a game knowing that the other team has the best players they could buy? Every time the NCAA does nothing about the cheating, people become disenfranchised with the sport.

[ShotgunDawg]

Ok... Here are the reasons WHY it's dropping:

1- Most sports attendance is down. We have been advocating a non competitive nation for decades. We preach, teach that sports are not helpful and damages kids feeling when they don't win. Those people have grown up and have no interest believing that everybody gets a trophy. Rivalry is a bad word these days. The older generation is to the point where they can't attend.

2- prices do matter. That is a fact. responsible people know their pocket books. While MSU is a better price, others are expensive.

3- many other options to view the game. At one point, you would have to listen to the game if you did not attend. Now... you don't miss a game on TV. When you couple that with cost, you are gonna lose attendance, but not viewership.


The Answers to the problem...


1- Make Competitive sports great again. Allow kids to learn how to fail and grow into succeeding. It's ok to lose.... It's not ok to let losing defeat you. We are not talking about the players... we are talking the people who will eventually occupy or NOT occupy seats.

2- Keep prices reasonable. There is no reason why a Hot Dog should cost $25. (no, I know we cut prices... so obviously I'm not talking about us). Tickets.. Booster money plus the amount of the seats. Keep it real. The average "Joe" will be more willing to buy and attend.

3- The game needs to be exciting. Nobody want to watch a team that consistently goes 5-7....6-6... and isn't competitive. That is a rules issue. Not coaching. You have 22 starters, 1 punter, 1 kicker, 1 FG kicker. That 25. 2 deep puts you at 50. 3 deep is 75. A team can have 85 on scholarship. This allows the Bama and Clemson's of the world to stash players. Bama right now has 14 Four Stars and 2 five Stars committed.

We need Roster caps lower to at least 75.

4- Stop the cheating. Actually do something about what's going on. Why am I going to continue to pay money to attend a game knowing that the other team has the best players they could buy? Every time the NCAA does nothing about the cheating, people become disenfranchised with the sport.

Completely agree. Great post.

The 85 scholarship is completely ludicrous to me for a sport the NFL plays with 53. I agree college football needs more due to freshmen not being ready to play, but 32 more is ridiculous & just takes away from what the sport could be.

[coachnorm]

If you are forced to pay for games not on Saturdays, when you are off work, the product has lost value. If you are forced to pay for cup cake games, the product has lost value. If you have to attend too many early games the product has lost value. Stoppages in play devalue the product because you are not home and able to kill time during stoppages. All of this in addition to costs and travel.

[maroonmania]

I believe it's #2.

I think the ticket price excuse is the excuse people use to justify not going to insignificant games & I think that's fair. However, the real problem is not the ticket prices, it's the lack of significant games.

If college football wants attendance & money making ability to go up, the answer is not to decrease prices. The answer is to increase the value of the product. Which means to add more significant games.

Cut scholarships to 70 & you have many many many more significant games within 2 years.

The cost of attending has just exceeded the value of the product. So just increase the value of the product.

IMO its not #2. When has MSU really EVER had a semi-legitimate chance to win the National Championship or had a schedule with no cream puffs on it? If that was the reason attendance would never had risen up over time. Yes, fans want a competitive team but the biggest thing is rising costs relative to the fact that now every game is available at home on hi def TV for free. PLUS, the schedules have become very unfriendly to the fan going to the games. You have 11:00 games (where MSU shuts down everything on campus as soon as the game is over) OR you have 8:00 pm starting games where folks that drive get back home at the wee hours of the morning. Its apparent that the schools crave the TV network money much more than the ticket sales money. Once my daughter graduates from MSU I will have to do some real debating if its worth to continue to forking out money for season tickets or not. If you only want to go to 3 or 4 games its way too easy to get good deals on the secondary market.

[Mjoelner34]

There's not just one problem keeping people away. It's multiple problems.

5 - Evolution of Weekend Activities - Folks worming, kids being involved in sports, families using those times to go do other activities than watch football. Weekend, especially for working families, has become a haven of activities. Yes football could be one of them, but I can take mine to the science museum or the zoo, spend 1/3 as much as football and be 30 minutes from home.

Thank you for staying home to do that. BTW, that was a great fat-finger!

[Lord McBuckethead]

I believe it's #2.

I think the ticket price excuse is the excuse people use to justify not going to insignificant games & I think that's fair. However, the real problem is not the ticket prices, it's the lack of significant games.

If college football wants attendance & money making ability to go up, the answer is not to decrease prices. The answer is to increase the value of the product. Which means to add more significant games.

Cut scholarships to 70 & you have many many many more significant games within 2 years.

The cost of attending has just exceeded the value of the product. So just increase the value of the product.

How about adding to this, unbiased refs. Seems bama gets the calls every game.

[Maroonthirteen]

Sure #2 is the biggest driver of attendance. For other schools, like State and OM, #1 is the issue.

1997 I bought tickets to State v bama in Tuscaloosa outside the stadium a few hours before the game, cheap. I sat in the chair backs on the 40-50. No way in hell I get those tickets last year for State v bama.

[Maroonthirteen]

Double post

[Mjoelner34]

If you are forced to pay for games not on Saturdays, when you are off work, the product has lost value. If you are forced to pay for cup cake games, the product has lost value. If you have to attend too many early games the product has lost value. Stoppages in play devalue the product because you are not home and able to kill time during stoppages. All of this in addition to costs and travel.

All good points. On the stoppage of play, I think you and I have discussed it before. You get 20 seconds of review time. After that, the machine shuts off. If you can't overturn the call after that, then there is no indisputable evidence and the call stands. Also, if we're going to stick with reviews, give each team a total of 3 challenges per game and quit letting someone from 'above' or in another state at the home office buzz in 30 times per game with a review.

[Lord McBuckethead]

All good points. On the stoppage of play, I think you and I have discussed it before. You get 20 seconds of review time. After that, the machine shuts off. If you can't overturn the call after that, then there is no indisputable evidence and the call stands. Also, if we're going to stick with reviews, give each team a total of 3 challenges per game and quit letting someone from 'above' or in another state at the home office buzz in 30 times per game with a review.

No. Have people off the field making the review. They have 30 seconds.

[Mjoelner34]

No. Have people off the field making the review. They have 30 seconds.

I agree with people off of the field making the review. I just don't won't people off the field or the refs on the field, initiating the review. They should only be initiated by the head coaches. Because of on-field review initiations by the refs, we were still getting review after review against SFA, a game which we won 63-6, in the 4th quarter. We're ahead 56-6 with 3 minutes to go in the game and the clock is running. Who cares if the guy got a foot down in-bounds?

[Dawg2003]

The main reason for me is that I can watch it on TV.

[maroonmania]

The main reason for me is that I can watch it on TV.

BOOM! Exactly. People would pay even the rising costs of going to the games if that is what they needed to do to watch it. But they don't. You actually get a better overall view of the game watching on TV. Really being in the atmosphere is the only reason to go anymore.

[coachnorm]

I agree with people off of the field making the review. I just don't won't people off the field or the refs on the field, initiating the review. They should only be initiated by the head coaches. Because of on-field review initiations by the refs, we were still getting review after review against SFA, a game which we won 63-6, in the 4th quarter. We're ahead 56-6 with 3 minutes to go in the game and the clock is running. Who cares if the guy got a foot down in-bounds?

Agree 100% but we maybe have forgotten that another stupid stoppage makes room for another commercial? ESPN just gets more advertising revenue and that comes first, the production quality comes afterwards.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I believe it's #2.

I think the ticket price excuse is the excuse people use to justify not going to insignificant games & I think that's fair. However, the real problem is not the ticket prices, it's the lack of significant games.

If college football wants attendance & money making ability to go up, the answer is not to decrease prices. The answer is to increase the value of the product. Which means to add more significant games.

Cut scholarships to 70 & you have many many many more significant games within 2 years.

The cost of attending has just exceeded the value of the product. So just increase the value of the product.

I think all of yall are missing the point. The point is every single game is available to watch on your couch. If you win people are going to line up at the gate to get in. I think some people may be getting tired of Clemson and Bama but that is our own fault. I would watch every game I could ever year even if I knew who was going to win the whole thing.

I do agree though that the FBS vs FCS games are a snooze and those should be moved to the spring. Play 9 conf games or add a P5 or non P5 team.

[Cooterpoot]

The real problem is parity. There is none in college football. Same teams win it every year. Same teams get promoted and given advantages. They try to prop up a team in each conference. It?s boring as hell. Who?s ready to go to a meaningless bowl again this year? Me neither.
I?m not forking out huge chunks of change to watch us lose to the same teams every year. The money has killed college athletics.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The real problem is parity. There is none in college football. Same teams win it every year. Same teams get promoted and given advantages. They try to prop up a team in each conference. It?s boring as hell. Who?s ready to go to a meaningless bowl again this year? Me neither.
I?m not forking out huge chunks of change to watch us lose to the same teams every year. The money has killed college athletics.

I think you should ask all the kids if its meaningless. If its meaningless then why the hell did we bitch up a storm since the outback bowl

[Liverpooldawg]

For me it's more this: I like to watch the other games from all over the country. If I go to a game in a good start time, that doesn't happen. I actually LIKE the 11AM games. I live close enough I can get home in time to catch the second half of the 2:30 games. I'm not a tailgater. I go to the games and that's it. That being said I haven't missed many over the last 5 years, My son just graduated, he did three co-ops but he was always on campus in the fall. I have a feeling I will still go to several every year, but not as many.

[Cooterpoot]

I think you should ask all the kids if its meaningless. If its meaningless then why the hell did we bitch up a storm since the outback bowl

I’m speaking of the general fan. It’s becoming boring. And kids are the ones not showing up and not staying for games.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I’m speaking of the general fan. It’s becoming boring. And kids are the ones not showing up and not staying for games.

I meant the players. I think boring is an opinion and not a fact.

[Bothrops]

Lol we'll never need to expand DWS again.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Lol we'll never need to expand DWS again.

Win and they will come. I have no problem with people wanting to stay home and watch it, it can be much easier and enjoyable. But Im not saying attendance is shitty either bc its really not.

[Cooterpoot]

I meant the players. I think boring is an opinion and not a fact.

The players aren’t counted in attendance last I checked. We’re talking fan attendance. Fact is, people aren’t going as much. Between cost, the fact we can’t beat the better teams on our schedule, and the same teams in the playoffs every year, it’s just become pretty boring. If we miraculously find a way to get in the playoffs, that would change my opinion. But I see no way we can compete with certain schools.

[Saltydog]

I think all of yall are missing the point. The point is every single game is available to watch on your couch. If you win people are going to line up at the gate to get in. I think some people may be getting tired of Clemson and Bama but that is our own fault. I would watch every game I could ever year even if I knew who was going to win the whole thing.

I do agree though that the FBS vs FCS games are a snooze and those should be moved to the spring. Play 9 conf games or add a P5 or non P5 team.

Agree Bucky. I gave up my season tix a few years back. I simply got tired of the hassle of it all when I can just save the money and sit at home. I now just go to a select few games and pick and choose those.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The players aren’t counted in attendance last I checked. We’re talking fan attendance. Fact is, people aren’t going as much. Between cost, the fact we can’t beat the better teams on our schedule, and the same teams in the playoffs every year, it’s just become pretty boring. If we miraculously find a way to get in the playoffs, that would change my opinion. But I see no way we can compete with certain schools.

And I dont blame people for wanting to stay home and watch them on TV. I am guilty of it myself. But there's not some epidemic going on and its not boring to me. Get used to it CFB aint changing in our lifetime. Too much money in it.

Again, you saying its boring is an opinion. We dont have to make the playoffs for me to be entertained and if Bama and Clemson play again this year I will be glued to it

[BuckyIsAB****]

And nobody can realistically sit here on this board and say the bowl games are meaningless bc this place has been nuclear at times over that meaningless outback bowl.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Win and they will come. I have no problem with people wanting to stay home and watch it, it can be much easier and enjoyable. But Im not saying attendance is shitty either bc its really not.

Attendance is not shitty. Our stadium is as full as anyone elses based on percentage. I will only worry when the atmosphere has been ruined, like the Hump for Men's games.

[Liverpooldawg]

Attendance is not shitty. Our stadium is as full as anyone elses based on percentage. I will only worry when the atmosphere has been ruined, like the Hump for Men's games.

This.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Attendance is not shitty. Our stadium is as full as anyone elses based on percentage. I will only worry when the atmosphere has been ruined, like the Hump for Men's games.

Exactly. And that mens basketball program has been the biggest reason why its gone down. Just an example, win and people will come. Play selfish and lose to Liberty and they wont

[Coach007]

Attendance has dropped 7 out of the last 8 years

[Coach007]

Its hard to compare basketball to football. A basketball roster is much small and easier to find and recruit better players.

In basketball, how many scholarships past what it takes field the team do you get?

Winning is very much connected to recruiting. Lower the numbers on the roster and teams become more competitive and that breeds excitement.

[Dawg2003]

BOOM! Exactly. People would pay even the rising costs of going to the games if that is what they needed to do to watch it. But they don't. You actually get a better overall view of the game watching on TV. Really being in the atmosphere is the only reason to go anymore.

I've come to enjoy it a lot more on TV. It's climate controlled, good view, I don't have to drive 2 hours to get there, I have access to a bathroom and drinks at all times.

[Jack Lambert]

You can't have both of having every game on TV and Have the stadiums full. SEC TV money is great but it is keeping the stadium empty. So would filling the stadium up make more money? I don't know but I don't think you could have both. I'm going to the game and recording all the games I want to watch.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

BOOM! Exactly. People would pay even the rising costs of going to the games if that is what they needed to do to watch it. But they don't. You actually get a better overall view of the game watching on TV. Really being in the atmosphere is the only reason to go anymore.



This the correct answer. The only time the atmosphere will truly put butts in the seats is when the team is playing at a high level and has a shot at something worthy of our attention. See 2014. In 2014 the same excuses (money, time, travel etc.) applied but we still filled DWS and the atmosphere was electric. That's why parity in CFB is so important and the scholarship reduction to 70 is important for the sport going forward.

[Natedogg33]

(1) TV is what is driving the attendance down. I can work at deer camp and go in and watch the game as a break.
(2) Cut the scholarship limits to 70-75. 20 per year.
(3) Cost is higher but really doesn’t have much affect. See 2014.
(4) I think State fans do a good job backing their teams, and will continue doing so
(5) We are in the golden age of MSU athletics, get behind your teams and players.

[Liverpooldawg]

(1) TV is what is driving the attendance down. I can work at deer camp and go in and watch the game as a break.
(2) Cut the scholarship limits to 70-75. 20 per year.
(3) Cost is higher but really doesn’t have much affect. See 2014.
(4) I think State fans do a good job backing their teams, and will continue doing so
(5) We are in the golden age of MSU athletics, get behind your teams and players.

When MSU eventually wins a natty in a sport we care about, I fully expect the majority of message board posts to either be bitching that we looked awful doing it or melting down over how bad we will be the NEXT year. MSU fans aren't happy unless they are whining about something.

[Coach007]

[/B]

This the correct answer. The only time the atmosphere will truly put butts in the seats is when the team is playing at a high level and has a shot at something worthy of our attention. See 2014. In 2014 the same excuses (money, time, travel etc.) applied but we still filled DWS and the atmosphere was electric. That's why parity in CFB is so important and the scholarship reduction to 70 is important for the sport going forward.

That's right. 100% 70 could work, but they also have to be limited in class sizes. 25 is the no limit. Lowering it to 15-20 would have to couple the reduction.

[Coach007]

I think you should ask all the kids if its meaningless. If its meaningless then why the hell did we bitch up a storm since the outback bowl


The kids aren't the ones buying tickets.

[Coach007]

I meant the players. I think boring is an opinion and not a fact.

Again, this is about attendance. Not playing. Players are not buying tickets. Nobody wants to see the game die, and we are not talking it will die tomorrow, but there is a problem.

We all know RIGHT now who is going to make it to the playoffs. We know, Bama, Clemson are pretty much locks. The other 2 will be out of a handful of teams.

I don't think there is anybody on this board that thinks we will beat bama. Guess what.... won't happen next year. Why? Because they recruit the top players and stash them. Clemson... same thing.

Right now, we have 4 four star recruits and Bama has... 14! with a few 5 stars. Clemson has 5 five stars and 9 four stars. LSU 13 Four stars, 2 five stars. We are ranked 17th in recruiting and that's how BIG of a difference there is in the top 3 and Ms ST.

Bama is set to get another 3 five stars. Clemson 1 more. That is killing the game.

[FriarsPoint]

There?s no chance of a Cinderella. The ncaa basketball tournament is huge mainly because of this. America loves an underdog. That junior college from Maryland that beat UVA two years ago, Butler, who was it, George Washington that made a final four run. People eat that shit up.

When Boise was taking on the big boys and winning it created buzz. The powers that be don?t like that. It challenges their pocketbooks. So you get what we have now. And it will only get worse. The death blow will come when they start putting players on salary. And it?s going to happen.

[Coach007]

And I dont blame people for wanting to stay home and watch them on TV. I am guilty of it myself. But there's not some epidemic going on and its not boring to me. Get used to it CFB aint changing in our lifetime. Too much money in it.

Again, you saying its boring is an opinion. We dont have to make the playoffs for me to be entertained and if Bama and Clemson play again this year I will be glued to it

And that's you. but per the ratings, CFB is in a 7 year decline.

[Coach007]

There?s no chance of a Cinderella. The ncaa basketball tournament is huge mainly because of this. America loves an underdog. That junior college from Maryland that beat UVA two years ago, Butler, who was it, George Washington that made a final four run. People eat that shit up.


There would be no Cinderella if teams were allowed to have 30 players on scholarships!

[FriarsPoint]

And that's you. but per the ratings, CFB is in a 7 year decline.

That’s the only way things will change. When the money dries up. This is nascar all over again. People get tired of seeing the same son of a bitch win every time with no chance of an upset.

[Percho]

I believe it's #2.

I think the ticket price excuse is the excuse people use to justify not going to insignificant games & I think that's fair. However, the real problem is not the ticket prices, it's the lack of significant games.

If college football wants attendance & money making ability to go up, the answer is not to decrease prices. The answer is to increase the value of the product. Which means to add more significant games.

Cut scholarships to 70 & you have many many many more significant games within 2 years.

The cost of attending has just exceeded the value of the product. So just increase the value of the product.

Maybe the very best post you have ever made!

[BuckyIsAB****]

And that's you. but per the ratings, CFB is in a 7 year decline.

Its probably making more money and has more exposure than it has ever gotten. This is ridiculous. I think yall are all pissed off at Alabama. And pissed off about recruiting rankings that dont mean jack shit.

[BuckyIsAB****]

There would be no Cinderella if teams were allowed to have 30 players on scholarships!

That will never happen. Too much money in it to lower the count. Teams are going to have to nut up and catch up if yall really think there is that big of a gap. Clemson had to start from somewhere, UGA has already arguably should have beaten Alabama twice. Would you all be bitching if it was Clemson vs UGA? I doubt it. Bama fatigue is warping some of your minds

[dawg21]

The bubble has burst. The SEC needs to break away from ESPN and build its own schedules/broadcasting brand. The SEC Nation needs to be redone with hot girls. Better schedules, better times, less schollys, beer, and in game interaction thru an Game App for endless voting and fan interaction opportunities.

[Coach007]

Just one more post on this Per 247 (I assume this is updated)

- Clemson Roster

5 Stars- 6.... with 5 committed and a possible 6th.
4 Stars- 26 (on roster) with 9 committed... and one who barely missed being a 4.

- Bama Roster

5 Stars- 9 with 2 committed and 3 other leaning heavily towards them.
4 Stars- 43!!!!! with 14 committed and I'm not even going to count the leans.

Joshua Casher.. Ever seen him on the field? In his 4 years, he played in 20 games. He was recruited and stashed. There are a ton of those.

[Coach007]

Its probably making more money and has more exposure than it has ever gotten. This is ridiculous. I think yall are all pissed off at Alabama. And pissed off about recruiting rankings that dont mean jack shit.

Again... the issue is butts in seats. Not the amount of money coming in from TV contacts.

And yes.. in general, they matter. Those players are ranked for a reason. That's not to say there no under evaluated players out there, but for anybody to sit here and say that Bama is not good due to their recruiting or Clemson for that matter, has lost all grasp on the reality of the game.

Saban is not a great coach. Put Mullen at Bama, and Mullen can do what he is doing with these recruits.

[Todd4State]

I don't think season tickets is an accurate measure of fan interest because of the secondary ticket market. I just doesn't make financial sense or common sense to buy season tickets anymore when you can get better seats for better prices at your convenience when you factor in Bulldog Club dues and fees unless you just really love where you sit.

What do I get for my Bulldog Club donations- top 30% of all donors- and I get shitty bowl tickets and no chance to get baseball tickets to regionals unless I want to stand.

I can save money, still go to games and get better seats on the secondary market but that shows up as a ding on MSU unfortunately.

And I can kind of pick my own ticket package using the secondary market. Don't want to go to Abilene Christian? No problem. Want to spend 11 bucks to go? That's fine too.

[Coach007]

That will never happen. Too much money in it to lower the count. Teams are going to have to nut up and catch up if yall really think there is that big of a gap. Clemson had to start from somewhere, UGA has already arguably should have beaten Alabama twice. Would you all be bitching if it was Clemson vs UGA? I doubt it. Bama fatigue is warping some of your minds

Just to show some history..

Clemson:

1981 National championship.... 24 Conference Championships.

UGA:

6 national titles, 16 conference championships, 55 bowl game appearances and that's tied for second.


So let's not act like these teams have had no history of a winning program.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Just to show some history..

Clemson:

1981 National championship.... 24 Conference Championships.

UGA:

6 national titles, 16 conference championships, 55 bowl game appearances and that's tied for second.


So let's not act like these teams have had no history of a winning program.

Thats fair enough. The point was to show that Bama is not some unstoppable juggernaut that is going to play for the title every year unopposed. And as far as saying Saban isnt a great coach, I cant help you there. Bama isnt the only team that has good players, everything Bama does from the way they run their camps to how they play is on another level.

I have seen it. Money has a lot to do with it, and thats something we cant do a lot about. But a commitment to excellence and a belief is another. We can do both of those and idk if ours is where theirs is right now. And I love my school to death but it just is what it is.

Bama fed kids (not highly ranked recruits mind you) at their 7 on 7 camp an entire buffet of whatever they wanted, along with getting a shuttle bus to take them to the cafeteria and back to the fields. Bama had a coach at the door of the place telling the kids, shirts tucked in and how to act and conduct themselves and if they stepped out they would be sent home....they played the championship game on their game field with the entire field painted like they were getting ready for a SEC gameday.

At State and OM they fed the kids chick fi la boxes and they drank water out of plastic cups. The championship games were played on their practice fields. Not that it wasnt enjoyable but it just wasnt comparable. If we want to bitch about why Bama out recruits us, there is one example right there. Might not mean much to an older person but to high school kids that says a lot.

Alabama has lots of advantages that we dont true, but they also live football. Im not sure that we do, at least not to their extent.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The bubble has burst. The SEC needs to break away from ESPN and build its own schedules/broadcasting brand. The SEC Nation needs to be redone with hot girls. Better schedules, better times, less schollys, beer, and in game interaction thru an Game App for endless voting and fan interaction opportunities.

Thats so frat bro

[Coach007]

And as far as saying Saban isnt a great coach, I cant help you there. Bama isnt the only team that has good players, everything Bama does from the way they run their camps to how they play is on another level.


Bama Roster

5 Stars- 9 with 2 committed and 3 other leaning heavily towards them.
4 Stars- 43!!!!! with 14 committed and I'm not even going to count the leans.

It's not hard to be at different level when you start at a different level. Bama lost how many LBs in one season and still kicked our teeth in? 3 was it? That's due to the level of the players coming in. I don't know how else to get that point across. You can put 2 people of the same size in a contest of speed, and one is going to beat the other without training. That one that wins starts out ahead of the other and the training is different. The same goes for catching. IF you have 2 men in front of you of equal height and weight, one catches the ball 90% of the time and another 60%... the training is different.



At State and OM they fed the kids chick fi la boxes and they drank water out of plastic cups. The championship games were played on their practice fields. Not that it wasnt enjoyable but it just wasnt comparable. If we want to bitch about why Bama out recruits us, there is one example right there. Might not mean much to an older person but to high school kids that says a lot.


This really isn't about Bama. This is about the product of college football. Bama makes alot more money than Ms St and therefore can do these things differently.


But again, this is more about the overall product of college football, and the current model will continue to drop until things change. That's just business. We see it at Ms St with Men's basketball. not competitive, and people stop showing up. It's a vicious cycle. And that's happening all over with college football. That's because we all know who the main players are and their are fewer and fewer opportunities for a team get in the mix.

We can congratulate Bama, Clemson, UGA, and the usuals, but that doesn't change the reality of the business. And yes.... it's now just a business.

[DancingRabbit]

Stadiums probably should start leveling off size-wise. Doesn't mean the on-campus game-day experience is extinct.

[Goldendawg]

OOC schedule is a joke and not worth the trip anymore, (BTW, winning these 4 cupcake games and going 2-6 in the SEC seems to have become an acceptable bad year to some on this board. Hey, we're bowl eligible for one of 100* bowls that are an attendance joke also). SEC needs to go to 9 conference games to make things more interesting and maybe more competitive. To not play some SEC teams for a "decade" is not acceptable. Dropping to 70 scholarships won't change much. The same thing was said about dropping to 85. The big boys will find a way around it to do their thing. The NCAA is about noting but the $tatus quo. On a positive note, we carried my son to his 1st MSU game in a carrier when he was less than one year of age. He is now 18 and we have not missed a home game together for his 18 years as a hardcore Dawg. These times together at the games are priceless!!! Hail State!

[Todd4State]

OOC schedule is a joke and not worth the trip anymore. SEC needs to go to 9 conference games to make things more interesting and maybe more competitive. To not play some SEC teams for a "decade" is not acceptable. Dropping to 70 scholarships won't change much. The same thing was said about dropping to 85. The big boys will find a way around it to do their thing. On a positive note, we carried my son to his 1st MSU game in a carrier when he was less than one year of age. He is now 18 and we have not missed a home game together for his 18 years as a hardcore Dawg. These times together at the games is priceless!!! Hail State!
FWIW I like that we are playing ULL in the Superdome which basically gives us an 8th home game and USM. I don't mind playing them twice every 5-6 years or so and that's a big game in Mississippi. Same with Memphis, Tulane, and UAB. Those four should be in our OOC rotation those four and maybe La Tech should be in our schedule rotation. I don't care for Abeline Christian or Kansas State. Neither of those interest me. I'd rather play a 9th SEC game than K-State and the FCS opponent should be an in state SWAC team.

[Goldendawg]

Todd, looks like you and I are the only ones still up. Another thing about the Abeline Christian type games are that it almost guarantees an 11:00 AM TV slot which doubles negative attendance issues. These games also blow up stats both individual and team. Look at Key's game against SFA, even set a school record for TD passes I think. They have slightly more interest than a spring game. The product is very poor. As for KSU, we had to play another P5 team. I am also tired of helping fund USM's survival. No longer an interesting game, especially to have to play in their crackerjack box stadium. Hail State!

[TUSK]

wow.

I go down in the woods to check my whiskey still and the place goes full retard.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/57778038.jpg

[99jc]

[QUOTE=Todd4State;1126268]FWIW I like that we are playing ULL in the Superdome which basically gives us an 8th home game.


I agree I love playing in the Dome. I don't care if we are playing Virginia School of deaf and blind.

[ShotgunDawg]

Dropping to 70 scholarships won't change much. The same thing was said about dropping to 85. The big boys will find a way around it to do their thing. The NCAA is about noting but the $tatus quo!

It would make an enormous difference. Your point makes no sense at all.

Going to 85 likely did more than people realize, it just didn't do enough

[ShotgunDawg]

wow.

I go down in the woods to check my whiskey still and the place goes full retard.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/57778038.jpg


Typical of a fan that can't see it due to his biases.

Why would a Bama want to buy season tickets to a home schedule where you'll win every game by 30 points?

[TUSK]

Typical of a fan that can't see it due to his biases.

Why would a Bama want to buy season tickets to a home schedule where you'll win every game by 30 points?

I agree with you RE: Bammer's Home Slate this year... It blows. But they'll still sell it out and there will still be a long waiting list to get tickets. And the "on the road" numbers indicate that "dominant" teams actually boost the home team's attendance, not hurt it.

As some have said in this thread, I believe a 9 game conference schedule is a good idea... I'd even like to see 2 of the 3 OOC opponents be P5 types (leaving only 1 "cupcake")... Those things would have to help those that are struggling with attendance.

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree with you RE: Bammer's Home Slate this year... It blows. But they'll still sell it out and there will still be a long waiting list to get tickets. And the "on the road" numbers indicate that "dominant" teams actually boost the home team's attendance, not hurt it.

As some have said in this thread, I believe a 9 game conference schedule is a good idea... I'd even like to see 2 of the 3 OOC opponents be P5 types (leaving only 1 "cupcake")... Those things would have to help those that are struggling with attendance.

And decreasing scholarships to 70

[TUSK]

And decreasing scholarships to 70

I think you'd need to be more aggressive than that... say 60ish...

70 wouldn't impact the Bammers/tOSUs, etc enough, IMO....

[ShotgunDawg]

I think you'd need to be more aggressive than that... say 60ish...

70 wouldn't impact the Bammers/tOSUs, etc enough, IMO....

70 would really help. I think 60 is too few. Not enough to keep Fr that aren’t ready off the field.

[TUSK]

70 would really help. I think 60 is too few. Not enough to keep Fr that aren’t ready off the field.

I know where you're coming from... My point is that a program could still sign ~25 guys every year once attrition is taken in to account...

[Coach007]

I agree with you RE: Bammer's Home Slate this year... It blows. But they'll still sell it out and there will still be a long waiting list to get tickets. And the "on the road" numbers indicate that "dominant" teams actually boost the home team's attendance, not hurt it.

As some have said in this thread, I believe a 9 game conference schedule is a good idea... I'd even like to see 2 of the 3 OOC opponents be P5 types (leaving only 1 "cupcake")... Those things would have to help those that are struggling with attendance.

Yeah but Tusk, the Sec attendance is down. That's just the facts man.

And as long as the current model is left in place, attendance will continue to drop.

A straight forward question to you. Would the sport be better off if the competition was better? Is that a better product for the fans.... not speaking just of Bama fans.

[Coach007]

I think you'd need to be more aggressive than that... say 60ish...

70 wouldn't impact the Bammers/tOSUs, etc enough, IMO....

I agree with that. I think 65 is the number with 15 to 20 per class

[ShotgunDawg]

I know where you're coming from... My point is that a program could still sign ~25 guys every year once attrition is taken in to account...

25 a year would go away.

20 a year. Have to prevent the attrition thing from being a massive loophole

[State82]

Best idea stated in this thread: Cut schollies to 70. And to add to that....move them to baseball and you greatly increase the product in two sports.

[TUSK]

25 a year would go away.

20 a year. Have to prevent the attrition thing from being a massive loophole

Now, you're on to something... 20/yr MAX, 70 Total... And more importantly (IMO), guarantee each scholly for 3 years... That'd keep the "processing" at a minimum, I think....

[ShotgunDawg]

Now, you're on to something... 20/yr MAX, 70 Total... And more importantly (IMO), guarantee each scholly for 3 years... That'd keep the "processing" at a minimum, I think....

And Bama would still likely have the best team, but instead of that schedule having no home games that'll be within 30 points, it may have 4 or 5 that'll be within 30 points.

That makes it more fun for everyone and honestly makes winning more special.

[Goldendawg]

Tusk, you must shop at the same bakery for "cupcakes" that we do. Southern Ms, both of us helping keep that program alive, us more than you for playing games at their community college size stadium. bama, Western Carolina (never heard of it) and New Mexico State? Get ready for 50 plus point blowouts when you play everyone but the waterboy. Also games will sellout for you, but get ready for a Saban meltdown when the students leave about halftime.

[Coach007]

Now, you're on to something... 20/yr MAX, 70 Total... And more importantly (IMO), guarantee each scholly for 3 years... That'd keep the "processing" at a minimum, I think....

Tusk.. Bama AIN'T selling out anymore Brother. That's a fact. First time in over a decade they released to the general public seats for a total of $560. I believe that was in the South Upper deck..

Here is what your Bammerhammer stated:



While this is good news for Alabama football fans who have not had a previous chance to buy season tickets, it bodes reasons for concern. New season ticket buyers will not have an automatic renewal opportunity. A call to the Tide Pride office can explain that decision and what it means for season ticket purchases in subsequent seasons.

Of greater concern is the reality of declining, national, college football attendance trends having reached Tuscaloosa. There are many reasons. Parking, traffic, lack of reasonably priced hotels (or rooms at any price) discourage regular attendance by out-of-town fans.

Many out-of-town Tide Pride members attend only two or three games per year. Selling the extra tickets was once easy. In today?s environment, many of the extra tickets are transferred to others through Tide Pride or given away to family and friends.

Games are great fun inside the stadium. Concessions and restrooms do not match that great experience. And it is too pricey, even with just a day trip, for many people.


So yeah... It has reached T-Town

[TUSK]

Yeah but Tusk, the Sec attendance is down. That's just the facts man.

The conference as a whole is down about 1.8% from '17 to '18.

The major influences are Arkie (-4.4%) , OM (-4.6%), Florida (-5.0%) & SC (-6.2%); The rest of the conference is cumulatively down 0.3%... That's negligible to me...

(Data on Vandy, UK, & Mizzou wasn't on the NCAA site...still looking for it.)

[TUSK]

Tusk, you must shop at the same bakery for "cupcakes" that we do. Southern Ms, both of us helping keep that program alive, us more than you for playing games at their community college size stadium. bama, Western Carolina (never heard of it) and New Mexico State? Get ready for 50 plus point blowouts when you play everyone but the waterboy. Also games will sellout for you, but get ready for a Saban meltdown when the students leave about halftime.

Fact. MSU's and Bammer's schedules are almost identical this year... (save the head to head, of course)....

[Coach007]

The conference as a whole is down about 1.8% from '17 to '18.

The major influences are Arkie (-4.4%) , OM (-4.6%), Florida (-5.0%) & SC (-6.2%); The rest of the conference is cumulatively down 0.3%... That's negligible to me...

(Data on Vandy, UK, & Mizzou wasn't on the NCAA site...still looking for it.)

It's in 7 year out of 8 year decline.