Really concerned about the defense

[Coach007]

I'm concerned about the defense in 2020. We are going to have more drafted off the defense this year, and maybe 2 leave early.

[starkvegasdawg]

Dude, we haven't even taken a snap in 2019 yet. Melt one year at a time.

[Captain Falcon]

We have a ton of really talented freshmen and sophomores on defense. We?ll be young in 2020 but will still have quite a few potential stars on the field. I would also be really surprised if ALL of our draftable juniors went pro following this season (Dantzler, Gay, Thompson) and there?s a chance we get all three back. LB and CB depth may be something to monitor but overall I?m not concerned about talent, just that those talented underclassmen get some experience between now and then.

And also, that?s over a year from now and we have some stars to replace this year first.

[Jack Lambert]

Dude, we haven't even taken a snap in 2019 yet. Melt one year at a time.

I think his point was we are going to be real good on defense this season.

[FriarsPoint]

I think his point was we are going to be real good on defense this season.

Maybe. Obviously not as deep as last year. If this Stevens kid works out, I can certainly see some low expectations being greatly exceeded. As the monkey said to the blind man, we’ll see.

[DancingRabbit]

Only thing I would be worried about is Shoop still Shoop'in.

From my untrained eye, last year's defense was the best coached defense at MSU.

Ever.

[Coach007]

Only thing I would be worried about is Shoop still Shoop'in.

From my untrained eye, last year's defense was the best coached defense at MSU.

Ever.

Our recruiting has turned to the immediate need on offense. We gotta have depth on that line

[Harrydawg]

Good show - what about 2025? What’s that look like?

[FriarsPoint]

Only thing I would be worried about is Shoop still Shoop'in.

From my untrained eye, last year's defense was the best coached defense at MSU.

Ever.

That’s a statement that’s real hard to argue with. The best coached ever part.

[Todd4State]

We really need to see who and if anyone emerges in 2019 before we worry about 2020. Also we are signing a ton of JUCO's so that will hopefully bridge us over like JUCO's did in 2017-2018.

[msbulldog]

Joe Lee Dunn was pretty good.

[BulldogDX55]

Good show - what about 2025? What’s that look like?

Our best player only weighs 140lbs! I thought we learned from the Holloway experiment!!!!!****

[TrapGame]

Joe Lee Dunn was pretty good.

He was a one trick pony. Once his trick was figured out his defenses became almost useless.

[Todd4State]

Joe Lee Dunn was pretty good.

Yes he was. I always thought it was funny when our fans said his scheme only works with good players.


Our best player only weighs 140lbs! I thought we learned from the Holloway experiment!!!!!****

As many of our fans on here that love Dan Mullen they may applaud the move back to the good old days when we were winning 8 games a year. Oh wait.

[tcdog70]

He was a one trick pony. Once his trick was figured out his defenses became almost useless.

His defense was great with lock down corners and an offense that avoided 3 and out thus keeping his defense on the field.

[Goldendawg]

Only thing I would be worried about is Shoop still Shoop'in.

From my untrained eye, last year's defense was the best coached defense at MSU.

Ever.

Don't forget when we were #1 under Joe Lee. Pretty good trick.

[tcdog70]

Don't forget when we were #1 under Joe Lee. Pretty good trick.

The Rebs were also #1 defense with Joe Lee

[DancingRabbit]

Don't forget when we were #1 under Joe Lee. Pretty good trick.

Joe Lee had some really good defenses. Grantham looked good his one year here.

I just felt like last year's defense looked better coached overall - line, backers and DBs.

[TrapGame]

His defense was great with lock down corners and an offense that avoided 3 and out thus keeping his defense on the field.

He's trick was to leave the TE uncovered. Once that got out it was worthless. (See Florida 2001)

[tcdog70]

He's trick was to leave the TE uncovered. Once that got out it was worthless. (See Florida 2001)

Damn took them years to figure that out.

[Homedawg]

Joe Lee had some really good defenses. Grantham looked good his one year here.

I just felt like last year's defense looked better coached overall - line, backers and DBs.

Not trying to be a smart ass, but 3 first rounders and multiple other draft picks on the team make it look better. A whole lot better.

[craigmid]

Good show - what about 2025? What?s that look like?

We make it through to the 3rd round of the 16 team playoff and lose to San Diego State by 2.

[DancingRabbit]

Not trying to be a smart ass, but 3 first rounders and multiple other draft picks on the team make it look better. A whole lot better.

I know we have a small sample size, and I haven't gone back to watch Shoop's defenses at past schools. Joe Lee had some good players too, and it's hard to compare going back 20 years. Grantham had most of the same players, albeit 1 year younger.

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. I liked how most of the time our defense looked prepared, were in the right place and were always in gang tackle mode.

Least amount of receivers running wide open that I can remember. I know Abram bit on one in the bowl game, and I'm sure there were some more but as the season went on I just kept noticing - hey there's very few busted coverages and these DBs are sticky.

[Ari Gold]

I know we have a small sample size, and I haven't gone back to watch Shoop's defenses at past schools. Joe Lee had some good players too, and it's hard to compare going back 20 years. Grantham had most of the same players, albeit 1 year younger.

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. I liked how most of the time our defense looked prepared, were in the right place and were always in gang tackle mode.

Least amount of receivers running wide open that I can remember. I know Abram bit on one in the bowl game, and I'm sure there were some more but as the season went on I just kept noticing - hey there's very few busted coverages and these DBs are sticky.

Shoop > Grantham
Abram prob isnt a 1st rounder if Shoop wasnt here last year.
The concern on the def staff is Deke. How big of a drop off coaching wise will it be.? Deke will recruit better but Baker is a helluva DL coach. ( at least he was here with our guys )

[msstate7]

Not trying to be a smart ass, but 3 first rounders and multiple other draft picks on the team make it look better. A whole lot better.

Yeah, I don't think our fanbase realizes the level of talent we lost off our defense. We had 3 freaking 1st rounders last year on defense... we had 4 1st round defensive players from 1982-2018

We will know much more about shoop this season. I think he's pretty good, but regression is coming

[BogeyGolfer]

I'm concerned about the defense in 2020. We are going to have more drafted off the defense this year, and maybe 2 leave early.

I think we go 11-1 in 2020*

There are a ton of question marks on the 2019 defense. We are going to have to move some guys around on that side of the ball. We will take a few of the LB and DE and have them play inside in order to have quality depth. Yes, of course there will be a drop off, we had the best D in the nation last year and more than likely two or three future pro-bowlers...Tbh, I have no expectations for next year, there are so many questions marks....

[Tbonewannabe]

Yeah, I don't think our fanbase realizes the level of talent we lost off our defense. We had 3 freaking 1st rounders last year on defense... we had 4 1st round defensive players from 1982-2018

We will know much more about shoop this season. I think he's pretty good, but regression is coming

That is true for everyone not named Bama or Clemson. I think we fall back and it completely depends on who steps up at DT. I think we have at least a top 25 defense with the returning defense which is regression. I personally think last year was better than 1999.

[msstate7]

That is true for everyone not named Bama or Clemson. I think we fall back and it completely depends on who steps up at DT. I think we have at least a top 25 defense with the returning defense which is regression. I personally think last year was better than 1999.

Top 25 would be solid. I'll take that right now. If we finish 20-25 though, that's a huge drop. Solid defense still though

[Tbonewannabe]

Top 25 would be solid. I'll take that right now. If we finish 20-25 though, that's a huge drop. Solid defense still though

I actually think we have the DEs, LBs, and Secondary to have maybe a top 10-15 defense but the DTs are a huge ????. There will be some redshirt and true freshmen on the field a good bit. At least those guys will be 4 star guys though.

[RiverCityDawg]

Top 25 would be solid. I'll take that right now. If we finish 20-25 though, that's a huge drop.

There were 75 yards per game difference last year between us and the #25 team (LSU). That's not really that much, partially if our D can improve in the only area of deficiency last year - creating turnovers. We were #56 in turnovers gained. To me, this is the area where we could improve and make up for not being as good overall on D. This of course along with offensive improvement.

[Dawg61]

75 yards a game on average is a huge difference.

[msstate7]

75 yards a game on average is a huge difference.

Yep, 28.5% increase

[Coach007]

Yeah, I don't think our fanbase realizes the level of talent we lost off our defense. We had 3 freaking 1st rounders last year on defense... we had 4 1st round defensive players from 1982-2018

We will know much more about shoop this season. I think he's pretty good, but regression is coming

No, We ALL get what we lost brother. I assure you. However, I (my opinion only) believe that:

DE: All 4 star players and they are very experienced.

- Spencer is better than Green. That's an upgrade.
- Adams is as good as Green. That's depth.
- Rivers is slightly behind Sweat.
- Jones is as good Green.

So can we agree with just that part?

[msstate7]

No, We ALL get what we lost brother. I assure you. However, I (my opinion only) believe that:

DE: All 4 star players and they are very experienced.

- Spencer is better than Green. That's an upgrade.
- Adams is as good as Green. That's depth.
- Rivers is slightly behind Sweat.
- Jones is as good Green.

So can we agree with just that part?

Rivers is more than slightly behind sweat. Sweat was a total freak show out there. Rivers is good too... this isn't a knock on rivers. Who you plugging in for Simmons? Simmons and sweat were maybe the best inside/outside combo in the country... having to account for those 2 made the whole defense better from the line to the safeties

[Coach007]

There were 75 yards per game difference last year between us and the #25 team (LSU). That's not really that much, partially if our D can improve in the only area of deficiency last year - creating turnovers. We were #56 in turnovers gained. To me, this is the area where we could improve and make up for not being as good overall on D. This of course along with offensive improvement.

2 notes on this.

- Our DBs did not allow a TD last year. They all return but 1. I think Abrams accounted for 2 of the 13 INTs.
- If our offense is improved in passing, that keeps our defense off the field, and could.. COULD help the DLs until they come into their own. Autry is GREAT at run stop. Jones and the backs up will be the factor.

[1bigdawg]

The concern on the def staff is Deke. How big of a drop off coaching wise will it be.? Deke will recruit better but Baker is a helluva DL coach. ( at least he was here with our guys )

Deke's resume' is pretty good. Are you worried about him as a coach, or just saying that you think Baker is better?

[sleepy dawg]

I did some looking into it, and we don't even have a single commitment in the 2023 recruiting class! Like, wtf!?!? By like 2025 we're only going to have like 10 players left on the team or something. Are we going to have to forfeit all the games that season?

[msstate7]

I did some looking into it, and we don't even have a single commitment in the 2023 recruiting class! Like, wtf!?!? By like 2025 we're only going to have like 10 players left on the team or something. Are we going to have to forfeit all the games that season?

Thanks. I'm adding this to my list on Moorhead haha

[R2Dawg]

That is true for everyone not named Bama or Clemson. I think we fall back and it completely depends on who steps up at DT. I think we have at least a top 25 defense with the returning defense which is regression. I personally think last year was better than 1999.

Boy, not sure. Both Ds were really good. Different eras, players, schemes. Hard to compare. I'd probably put tied at 1. That 99 D had the entire 2nd DL go pro. Nasty depth right there. Bean and Smoot at CB.

[RiverCityDawg]

75 yards a game on average is a huge difference.

It is meaningful but my point is that it can be overcome. Kentucky was #23 and only averaged 4 points more given up. Both Kentucky and LSU won 10 games. Florida too. The drop in defense is being used by some as the main reason why we won't win 8 games and I just don't think going from 1 to 25 means we can't win 8. We could have been #25 last year and still had the same record. With an easier schedule it's certainly attainable.

People recognize the loss of talent, but looking at what we have coming back relative to the defenses we've had before and other defenses in the league, it's reasonable to think we will still be very good. Obviously have to have guys step up at DT and stay healthy at LB.

[Coach007]

Rivers is more than slightly behind sweat. Sweat was a total freak show out there. Rivers is good too... this isn't a knock on rivers. Who you plugging in for Simmons? Simmons and sweat were maybe the best inside/outside combo in the country... having to account for those 2 made the whole defense better from the line to the safeties

So we can agree the DEs won't see much of a drop off. They will be balanced. And YES Sweat was fun to watch.

On Rivers, Here are his stats compared to Sweat. I would love to find the amount of downs played so we could compare.

Sweat- 53 tackles - 14 TFL- 11 sacks- 7 QBH
Rivers- 24 tackles - 7 TFL- 3 sacks- 4 QBH

I believe we both know Rivers did not get the downs that sweat did. I don't believe it was 50/50. I don't see it being a drop off if Rivers is on the field as much as Sweat. Rivers was the top pass rusher out of JUCO.

As to Simmons.. Like I said... We didn't have a guy to replace Jones until we did. I think what people are advocating is that we must have that Simmons/Sweat combo in order to be a great defense. That's simply not true.

Autry, run stopper. Jackson has moved from OL to DL. I would imagine Lovett would start. I don't think you will keep Pickering off the field.

Nobody is saying we will have the number 1 defense again. What we are saying is that you don't have to have the #1 defense in the nation to compete for a title. Bama didn't have a top 15 defense. LSU won 10 games with a top 25 defense. Notre Dame won 12 with the 30th ranked Defense.

What I am saying is that we are not going to fall off the cliff because of 2 guys. One is replaced and we need serviceable DLs. We won't go from #1 to done. We will manage to be top 15

[Percho]

There were 75 yards per game difference last year between us and the #25 team (LSU). That's not really that much, partially if our D can improve in the only area of deficiency last year - creating turnovers. We were #56 in turnovers gained. To me, this is the area where we could improve and make up for not being as good overall on D. This of course along with offensive improvement.

Well, we had two against Bama we did not get to count. One for a TD. That would have made us a little better than #56.

[Tbonewannabe]

Boy, not sure. Both Ds were really good. Different eras, players, schemes. Hard to compare. I'd probably put tied at 1. That 99 D had the entire 2nd DL go pro. Nasty depth right there. Bean and Smoot at CB.

The best offense in the SEC in 1999 was UF at 31 points per game. That would have been 8th this year in the conference. The 1999 defense held teams to 13 points per game which is pretty much what we held teams to this year. Going into the bowl game, we hadn't allowed a play longer than 25 yards and didn't allow a TD through the air. Those are some insane stats especially considering we played Bama who averaged for the year 45 points per game with a Heisman candidate QB with one of the top WRs, TEs, and RBs in the country.

Both were great defenses but I give the nod to 2018.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Rivers is more than slightly behind sweat. Sweat was a total freak show out there. Rivers is good too... this isn't a knock on rivers. Who you plugging in for Simmons? Simmons and sweat were maybe the best inside/outside combo in the country... having to account for those 2 made the whole defense better from the line to the safeties

I wouldn't count out Chauncey. He may not have the exact same skill set as Sweat, but he's no slouch. I think people are going to be surprised at the jump he makes. He's a backend 1st round guy if he plays to his potential. I think we could see him have an Abram type leap up the draft boards.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Brian Cole also returns this year and he was hell on wheels through 4 games last year.

[NCDawg]

Dude, we haven't even taken a snap in 2019 yet. Melt one year at a time.

That's a good one. Don't worry about it. Bernie Sanders says when he's elected, he's taking some of Alabama's championships and giving them to us, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky.

[Coach007]

That's a good one. Don't worry about it. Bernie Sanders says when he's elected, he's taking some of Alabama's championships and giving them to us, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky.

LMAO!!!!

[Dawgfan77]

I?m not gonna worry about the 2020 defense now. The Juco we have committed maybe better than the 17 class

[99jc]

#1 defense in the country last year lose 3 to 1st round in NFL draft first time ever and you eternal optimist think we wont have much drop off. Simmons and Sweat made the secondary better. We will have a big drop off how much remains to be seen Moorhead better dang well get this offense going we will need many more points put on the board.

[Coach007]

#1 defense in the country last year lose 3 to 1st round in NFL draft first time ever and you eternal optimist think we wont have much drop off. Simmons and Sweat made the secondary better. We will have a big drop off how much remains to be seen Moorhead better dang well get this offense going we will need many more points put on the board.

I only see one major hole to fill. Simmons.

[DownwardDawg]

That's a good one. Don't worry about it. Bernie Sanders says when he's elected, he's taking some of Alabama's championships and giving them to us, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky.

Hahaha!!!! Freakin awesome!!!!!

[TaleofTwoDogs]

That's a good one. Don't worry about it. Bernie Sanders says when he's elected, he's taking some of Alabama's championships and giving them to us, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky.

I think he said us, Vanderbilt and Missouri. But I could be mistaken. But since he's a politician, there are probably half a dozen variations.

[R2Dawg]

Brian Cole also returns this year and he was hell on wheels through 4 games last year.

Abram was dominant but what a year for us to return Cole. I also like Landrews a lot too. Both are explosive to the football.

[R2Dawg]

The best offense in the SEC in 1999 was UF at 31 points per game. That would have been 8th this year in the conference. The 1999 defense held teams to 13 points per game which is pretty much what we held teams to this year. Going into the bowl game, we hadn't allowed a play longer than 25 yards and didn't allow a TD through the air. Those are some insane stats especially considering we played Bama who averaged for the year 45 points per game with a Heisman candidate QB with one of the top WRs, TEs, and RBs in the country.

Both were great defenses but I give the nod to 2018.

Like I said hard to compare teams and eras. I could go either way. What we did last year was amazing by any standard. One of the best Ds in nation and was on the level with any Bama D.

That 99 D was special too. I think they only gave up just barely 200-220 yards per game. The blitz 5-1-5 Jo Lee D was impossible to solve. Dog safeties and our shutdown corners along with our edge rushers. I remember Corso saying on national TV, all we liked to win a NC was a QB. That 99 team was also one of best in MSU history.

One thing that made both Ds special was the depth. Both teams had 2 deep on DL with basically no dropoff. 99 team may have been better on 2nd team.

Boy when you think about it, how did little ole MSU do that? Anyone that says we can't win the big one with the talent we have shown to bring in just isn't paying attention. Forget recruiting titles, I'm talking about on the field talent which is what matters.

[BogeyGolfer]

I only see one major hole to fill. Simmons.

Then you have no clue about how a defense can be successful....Sweat made Simmons a lot better, Abram made Sweat and Simmons better and vice versa...The quality depth that all three provided will also be gone. I'm finding it hard to take anything you say serious....

[Coach007]

Then you have no clue about how a defense can be successful....Sweat made Simmons a lot better, Abram made Sweat and Simmons better and vice versa...The quality depth that all three provided will also be gone. I'm finding it hard to take anything you say serious....

LMAO! Ok chief!