Something I thought I would never see but Trump made it happen.

[Jack Lambert]

Yes this is sports related.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-military-sports/trump-signs-order-to-allow-military-academy-graduates-to-play-pro-sports-idUSKCN1TS00H

[DownwardDawg]

That’s great!!!

[Jack Lambert]

That’s great!!!

Their baseball programs are fixing to get really good.

[Todd4State]

I like it!

I think the Military could benefit from pro athletes that went to their academies.

Maybe part of their obligation could be to promote whatever their branch of the military is for a few years of their career- something simple like make a commercial.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Im all for it

[Cooterpoot]

Army has some of the best athletic training facilities you?ll see. Their indoor facility is massive. Their technology is better than everyone?s. Their use of VR is something to see.

[BrunswickDawg]

Not an attempt to get political - just factual -

Obama implemented a program in 2016 that allowed athletes to become reservists and go pro. Trump killed that in April 2017, and is now undoing his own decision.

[MrKotter]

Not an attempt to get political - just factual -

Obama implemented a program in 2016 that allowed athletes to become reservists and go pro. Trump killed that in April 2017, and is now undoing his own decision.

Obama only extended the waiver, which has been in place since the 80?s, from 2 years to 5 years.

[BrunswickDawg]

Obama only extended the waiver, which has been in place since the 80?s, from 2 years to 5 years.

And Trump cancelled that policy and left no avenue to go pro.

[Jacknut]

The move reverses a policy from former Defense Secretary James Mattis, who put his foot down in 2017, rescinding a previous directive that allowed academy and ROTC graduates to hold off on taking their first assignments while they explored pro sports.

“Our military academies exist to develop future officers who enhance the readiness and the lethality of our military services,” then-DoD spokeswoman Dana White said in a statement. “Graduates enjoy the extraordinary benefit of a military academy education at taxpayer expense.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/06/26/trump-reverses-rule-for-military-academy-athletes-who-want-pro-careers/

[Lord McBuckethead]

In other news, water is 17n wet.

[Pollodawg]

I love when people open with “not trying to get political” because you know they’re about to get political, and they meant to all along. ��

Not that there’s anything wrong with having a point-of-view.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I love when people open with “not trying to get political” because you know they’re about to get political, and they meant to all along. ��

Not that there’s anything wrong with having a point-of-view.

Its not a point of view. It's actually the timeline of events that led to this outcome. I think it is great for servicemen to get that opportunity, but they should have gone to a standard college. They absolutely knew what they were signing up for. They received one of the best educations in this country, for free, to be service to our military and government. They could have went to any college to be a pro sports athlete, except UM.

[Tbonewannabe]

Its not a point of view. It's actually the timeline of events that led to this outcome. I think it is great for servicemen to get that opportunity, but they should have gone to a standard college. They absolutely knew what they were signing up for. They received one of the best educations in this country, for free, to be service to our military and government. They could have went to any college to be a pro sports athlete, except UM.

Cheers for this.

[BrunswickDawg]

Its not a point of view. It's actually the timeline of events that led to this outcome. I think it is great for servicemen to get that opportunity, but they should have gone to a standard college. They absolutely knew what they were signing up for. They received one of the best educations in this country, for free, to be service to our military and government. They could have went to any college to be a pro sports athlete, except UM.

Exactly. It is a factual statement that a program was expanded under Obama that allowed athletes to defer their commitment in order to compete professionally. It is also factual that the program was eliminated by the Trump administration in April 2017. It eliminated not just the Obama expansion, but the entire program that had been in place since I believe Napoleon McCallum had issues playing with the Raiders (although it could have been for David Robinson in the NBA). He is now proposing to re-institute a waiver program that is TBD. If he expands that waiver so that more athletes have the ability to serve our country while entertaining us as athletes, I'm all for it regardless of who institutes it. I think it is great for the academies. Now, if the TBD program comes back and it's weaker that what was in place 2 years ago - or is exactly the same - then nothing has achieved.

[ScoobaDawg]

Just watching.... keep it clean.

[DownwardDawg]

Its not a point of view. It's actually the timeline of events that led to this outcome. I think it is great for servicemen to get that opportunity, but they should have gone to a standard college. They absolutely knew what they were signing up for. They received one of the best educations in this country, for free, to be service to our military and government. They could have went to any college to be a pro sports athlete, except UM.

Ok. Really good point there.

[Pollodawg]

It was mostly tongue-in-check about the phrase itself. Almost as soon as someone begins with “not trying to be political,” they get political. I really don’t care which President is responsible. Lol

[Jacknut]

And Trump cancelled that policy and left no avenue to go pro.

Just to be clear, MATTIS canceled the policy, not Trump. Now whether he had Trump's blessing, who knows?

[ShotgunDawg]

Not an attempt to get political - just factual -

Obama implemented a program in 2016 that allowed athletes to become reservists and go pro. Trump killed that in April 2017, and is now undoing his own decision.

It never changed

In 2016, when Air Force pitcher Griffin Jax was drafted in the 3rd round of the MLB draft & while Obama was still in office, Jax had to complete 4 years of service before he could be a full-time baseball player, 2 years full time & 2 years reserve.

Jax just finished his mandatory full time two years & is now pitching for AA Pensacola in the Southern League as a reservist.

The same policy held until now. Service academy athletes have always been allowed to be drafted & attend professional sports related work while on leave, but until now they have not been able to go straight to being a professional athlete without serving their mandatory service obligation.

That being said, the military has at times in their past allowed high profile athlete to serve as recruiters at a post near their professional sports team, but allowing athletes to do that has been inconsistent & not contingent upon who our president is. Those decisions were made at lower levels & the military has gotten away from that the last few years. Honestly, it's a pretty confusing process & the reason Noah Song, a Navy pitcher & 1st round talent, went in the back of the 4th round instead of the back of the 1st round or early 2nd.

This decision by Trump, if it comes to full fruition, will really really help service academy sports as they can now sell the opportunity to go pro along with the opportunity to have a military career if they don't go pro. It's a win/win.

The debate on this topic is that tax payers pay the full ride for service academy students & that should obligate them to some sort of service. That being said, I agree with this legislation because it will allow the service academies the opportunity recruit better players, which in turn, will raise the profile of those schools & recruit numerous students & athletes that otherwise would not have considered the schools or career path.

[sleepy dawg]

I think it's horseshit.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's horseshit.

Why?

[Lord McBuckethead]

Why?

Because everyone in this country paid for their education, because we need them to serve our collective needs. If I remember somewhere, that education cost about 300k per person. So we invested that and these guys decide they can throw all of that to the wind and play pro sports. No. They should have went to the state school if that is a possibility. They have chosen, to be obligated to serve. With that choice, they refused the right to choose something different later.

[Dawg61]

Because everyone in this country paid for their education, because we need them to serve our collective needs. If I remember somewhere, that education cost about 300k per person. So we invested that and these guys decide they can throw all of that to the wind and play pro sports. No. They should have went to the state school if that is a possibility. They have chosen, to be obligated to serve. With that choice, they refused the right to choose something different later.

This is the worst post I've seen on this board in awhile.

[dawgs]

I love when people open with ?not trying to get political? because you know they?re about to get political, and they meant to all along. ��

Not that there?s anything wrong with having a point-of-view.

But this is like thanking the guy who set your house on fire for putting out the fire he set though.

The thread title is also total bullshit. "Never thought" you'd see it until "trump made it happen"?? Bullshit, you saw it up until trump canceled the policy a couple years ago. You can be a republican/conservative, but you can't deny literal facts.

[dawgs]

Because everyone in this country paid for their education, because we need them to serve our collective needs. If I remember somewhere, that education cost about 300k per person. So we invested that and these guys decide they can throw all of that to the wind and play pro sports. No. They should have went to the state school if that is a possibility. They have chosen, to be obligated to serve. With that choice, they refused the right to choose something different later.

Under the old program (and I'm assuming the new program which will likely be the same as the old program), their service was deferred until after their pro career. So usually they would just serve in their late 20s instead of early 20s unless another David Robinson shows up at a military academy.

[ScoobaDawg]

This is the worst post I've seen on this board in awhile.


Nope this is. If you disagree with him, how about using your mind to actually discuss the topic at hand instead just saying something non-constructive.

But don't ruin this thread like I know you are itching to do.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Under the old program (and I'm assuming the new program which will likely be the same as the old program), their service was deferred until after their pro career. So usually they would just serve in their late 20s instead of early 20s unless another David Robinson shows up at a military academy.

That's true. Not like these guys are on the front lines. But the fact remains, they signed up knowing the situation.
Also, how many people do you know that were educated as engineers or whatever, but didn't work in the field for 5-15 years. How useful were they when they returned to the profession?

My only point is this..... they signed up to serve. They received a hell of a bad ass education to serve. To my knowledge, they received bonuses as commissioned officers, to serve. If they didn't want to serve and have the potential to go pro, then go to a normal college on your own merit and don't waste tax payers money.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Nope this is. If you disagree with him, how about using your mind to actually discuss the topic at hand instead just saying something non-constructive.

But don't ruin this thread like I know you are itching to do.

Thanks Scooba. Dawg61 we are awaiting your actually discussion on the subject.

[Dawg61]

Nope this is. If you disagree with him, how about using your mind to actually discuss the topic at hand instead just saying something non-constructive.

But don't ruin this thread like I know you are itching to do.

I'm not allowed to speak my mind on this board anymore thanks to you constantly hovering over the ban button for the last three years on me.

[ShotgunDawg]

Because everyone in this country paid for their education, because we need them to serve our collective needs. If I remember somewhere, that education cost about 300k per person. So we invested that and these guys decide they can throw all of that to the wind and play pro sports. No. They should have went to the state school if that is a possibility. They have chosen, to be obligated to serve. With that choice, they refused the right to choose something different later.

Good thoughts and I agree to a large extent.

Here are two counters though:

1. Tax payers actually pay for many people's education and many universities.

2. Will this rule help or hurt the military academies ability to recruit high caliber kids and increase their brand?

[ShotgunDawg]

That's true. Not like these guys are on the front lines. But the fact remains, they signed up knowing the situation.
Also, how many people do you know that were educated as engineers or whatever, but didn't work in the field for 5-15 years. How useful were they when they returned to the profession?

My only point is this..... they signed up to serve. They received a hell of a bad ass education to serve. To my knowledge, they received bonuses as commissioned officers, to serve. If they didn't want to serve and have the potential to go pro, then go to a normal college on your own merit and don't waste tax payers money.


Problem is that many of these guy's pro potential wasn't realized even to themselves till a few years into college

[dawgs]

That's true. Not like these guys are on the front lines. But the fact remains, they signed up knowing the situation.
Also, how many people do you know that were educated as engineers or whatever, but didn't work in the field for 5-15 years. How useful were they when they returned to the profession?

My only point is this..... they signed up to serve. They received a hell of a bad ass education to serve. To my knowledge, they received bonuses as commissioned officers, to serve. If they didn't want to serve and have the potential to go pro, then go to a normal college on your own merit and don't waste tax payers money.

It's such a rare (1-2 guys per year?) that is affected, I think getting an engineer who is a little rusty on his dynamics is worth doing the right thing and allowing those couple guys a year that have pro sports potential to realize that goal (shocking that people might have multiple life goals) and then also realize their goal of serving the country later. Pro sports have a very limited window, not like being a lawyer or a doctor or a PE or whatever where you can still use your brain at 30 years old to continue pursuing other viable career paths, missing a couple of early 20s years in development as a pro athlete effectively kills any realistic pro sports opportunity for almost all military academy athletes with pro-potential. Most guys that make a run at being a pro-athlete are washed out by 25 or so and should be able to spruce up their knowledge well enough to do the jobs they need to do. It's not like engineers are sitting around doing complex dynamics problems by hand from scratch like you did sitting in class.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It's such a rare (1-2 guys per year?) that is affected, I think getting an engineer who is a little rusty on his dynamics is worth doing the right thing and allowing those couple guys a year that have pro sports potential to realize that goal (shocking that people might have multiple life goals) and then also realize their goal of serving the country later. Pro sports have a very limited window, not like being a lawyer or a doctor or a PE or whatever where you can still use your brain at 30 years old to continue pursuing other viable career paths, missing a couple of early 20s years in development as a pro athlete effectively kills any realistic pro sports opportunity for almost all military academy athletes with pro-potential. Most guys that make a run at being a pro-athlete are washed out by 25 or so and should be able to spruce up their knowledge well enough to do the jobs they need to do. It's not like engineers are sitting around doing complex dynamics problems by hand from scratch like you did sitting in class.

But where does that stop? If I were a computer science engineer that developed a way to compress digital information without a loss of fidelity and could make 1 billion dollars, do I get a chance to defer my service?

[Tbonewannabe]

That's true. Not like these guys are on the front lines. But the fact remains, they signed up knowing the situation.
Also, how many people do you know that were educated as engineers or whatever, but didn't work in the field for 5-15 years. How useful were they when they returned to the profession?

My only point is this..... they signed up to serve. They received a hell of a bad ass education to serve. To my knowledge, they received bonuses as commissioned officers, to serve. If they didn't want to serve and have the potential to go pro, then go to a normal college on your own merit and don't waste tax payers money.

Could they make it where they had to pay back at least a portion of their tuition or the team that drafts them has to pay a tax deductible amount? Either that or they are required to work as recruiters and in marketing the Armed Forces. I know David Robinson served 2 years on a base in Georgia but what did he actually do? Would he be more impactful in a recruiting and marketing role like that?

[TUSK]

I'm not allowed to speak my mind on this board anymore thanks to you constantly hovering over the ban button for the last three years on me.

No.

You just make myopic, ill informed posts, buddy... You've every right to your opinion, and to post it... They are just usually poorly delivered, with animosity and without much rationale, backup information/facts and lacking in reason and/or logic.

Other than that, you're solid.

[BrunswickDawg]

Could they make it where they had to pay back at least a portion of their tuition or the team that drafts them has to pay a tax deductible amount? Either that or they are required to work as recruiters and in marketing the Armed Forces. I know David Robinson served 2 years on a base in Georgia but what did he actually do? Would he be more impactful in a recruiting and marketing role like that?

Robinson was a civil engineering officer at Kings Bay sub base. So he had an office job. Which gets to my earlier point - if the branches of the military were creative, they could find easy ways to have athletes full fill their service requirements and play at the same time. In a case like Robinson, they could have transferred his service to the Army Corp of Engineers and stationed him in San Antonio and let him play ball and work in the off season. the PR benefit of that is huge. "Follow your dreams and still serve your country".

[Lord McBuckethead]

Good thoughts and I agree to a large extent.

Here are two counters though:

1. Tax payers actually pay for many people's education and many universities.

2. Will this rule help or hurt the military academies ability to recruit high caliber kids and increase their brand?

Counter Arguments

1. The reason why tax payers pay for the armed services education and training is specifically for the service they will provide in the military.
2. I am sure it will help.

[ScoobaDawg]

No.

You just make myopic, ill informed posts, buddy... You've every right to your opinion, and to post it... They are just usually poorly delivered, with animosity and without much rationale, backup information/facts and lacking in reason and/or logic.

Other than that, you're solid.

Exactly. Amazing how this has gone 2 pages and stayed civil and on topic.

[dawgs]

But where does that stop? If I were a computer science engineer that developed a way to compress digital information without a loss of fidelity and could make 1 billion dollars, do I get a chance to defer my service?

The difference is anyone with the tools to develop a compression algorithm could figure that out at any point in their lives. Pro athlete careers average less than 5 years and even good ones are usually over before the mid-30s, so the window of opportunity there is incredibly small and largely limited to the years immediately after college before people are physically unable to compete with the best athletes in the world. A 50 year old who has kept current in their tech field can come up with a new compression algorithm just as well as a 22 year old fresh out of college.

[BrunswickDawg]

The difference is anyone with the tools to develop a compression algorithm could figure that out at any point in their lives. Pro athlete careers average less than 5 years and even good ones are usually over before the mid-30s, so the window of opportunity there is incredibly small and largely limited to the years immediately after college before people are physically unable to compete with the best athletes in the world. A 50 year old who has kept current in their tech field can come up with a new compression algorithm just as well as a 22 year old fresh out of college.

Not to mention that if their skills were that high, they would probably get fast-tracked into the NSA or high level DOD jobs attached to some defense contractor and be positioned to make big money while doing ground breaking top secret work.

[Dawg61]

No.

You just make myopic, ill informed posts, buddy... You've every right to your opinion, and to post it... They are just usually poorly delivered, with animosity and without much rationale, backup information/facts and lacking in reason and/or logic.

Other than that, you're solid.

Lol I haven't been on the poli board in over a year bud and this post right now makes maybe the second time I've had any interaction with you specifically since then. It's whatever man you, 007, Scooba and a couple others can now enjoy the boards that you have molded or maybe I should say have bubble wrapped yourselves in for protection. I am sure they are just as entertaining as always right Tusk.

[TUSK]

Lol I haven't been on the poli board in over a year bud and this post right now makes maybe the second time I've had any interaction with you specifically since then. It's whatever man you, 007, Scooba and a couple others can now enjoy the boards that you have molded or maybe I should say have bubble wrapped yourselves in for protection. I am sure they are just as entertaining as always right Tusk.

My comments weren't exclusive to the Poli Board... applicable, yes.

[Dawg61]

My comments weren't exclusive to the Poli Board... applicable, yes.

Your comment is fake news for both boards. Typical. I'm happy for you that you have an avenue to express yourself in that would be the PB and you aren't on other social media platforms as much instead though. I'm assuming that's the case but maybe I shouldn't do that while underestimating your ability to be on many social media platforms at the same time.

[BeardoMSU]

C'mon, fellas....**

https://media1.giphy.com/media/14qsURQZ0k8yWI/giphy.gif

[Lord McBuckethead]

Good discussion everyone. My only point is that they signed up, went through months of application processes and letters of recommendation from their senators, etc. Earn the right to get one of the best educations in the world. None of that has a damn thing to do with sports. It purely is a necessity for our armed services to have the brightest damn leaders in the country.

Sorry, but you got the education for a reason. And that reason is not to play football, baseball, or basketball professionally. All that happened is we wasted a shit ton of time. The Army could get Labron James to plug commercials for them. If you need wow factor.

[Dawg61]

Good discussion everyone. My only point is that they signed up, went through months of application processes and letters of recommendation from their senators, etc. Earn the right to get one of the best educations in the world. None of that has a damn thing to do with sports. It purely is a necessity for our armed services to have the brightest damn leaders in the country.

Sorry, but you got the education for a reason. And that reason is not to play football, baseball, or basketball professionally. All that happened is we wasted a shit ton of time. The Army could get Labron James to plug commercials for them. If you need wow factor.

They can do their service when their professional dream has expired. We'll still have a military with needs then. Not all of them will choose the professional path either. Pat Tillman didn't.

[TUSK]

I can see both sides of this issue.

I'd think the gov't could possibly give them a deferral on their service provided they immediately refund all of the costs of their education, training and ancillary expenses incurred... Then serve on down the road...

However, if the position is such that that is untenable due to national security or organizational expectations regarding unit continuity and effectiveness, then they prolly just need to keep their word, pick up a fvcking weapon, and get in the fight...

[dawgs]

I can see both sides of this issue.

I'd think the gov't could possibly give them a deferral on their service provided they immediately refund all of the costs of their education, training and ancillary expenses incurred... Then serve on down the road...

However, if the position is such that that is untenable due to national security or organizational expectations regarding unit continuity and effectiveness, then they prolly just need to keep their word, pick up a fvcking weapon, and get in the fight...

But why repay it when they are still DEFERRING and will have to complete their service at a later date? A 20th round pick in baseball may work his way to the majors, but he ain't making enough to pay off a few hundred grand. So now you'd be picking winners and losers based on which kid comes from a wealthy family.

[TUSK]

But why repay it when they are still DEFERRING and will have to complete their service at a later date? A 20th round pick in baseball may work his way to the majors, but he ain't making enough to pay off a few hundred grand. So now you'd be picking winners and losers based on which kid comes from a wealthy family.

I was just offering them an out.... They aren't required to take it...

Personally, I think they should serve, but I respect that not everyone sees it that way...

[Liverpooldawg]

Facts. Trump ended this exemption started by OBMA. We don't provide an education to athletes to play in the NFL, etc. Trump ended it, and then re-established it. It's terrible.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Facts. Trump ended this exemption started by OBMA. We don't provide an education to athletes to play in the NFL, etc. Trump ended it, and then re-established it. It's terrible.

Pretty much. Its terrible, yet I still see the upside of allowing it. Recognition, and they still serve sfter their career, fantastic.

[Ezsoil]

1. Tax payers actually pay for many people's education and many universities.

Ding ding we have a winner ...

[Dawg61]

It isn't terrible to let a person achieve their dream. It's terrible to refuse it. We have 1.3 million active duty troops and another 865,000 reserves. The days of needing huge amounts of deployed troops for a war are long gone because our military has become way too effective for that to ever even be a possibility again. It'll be ok if we let a couple military personnel a year live out their dreams.

[Jacknut]

Facts. Trump ended this exemption started by OBMA. We don't provide an education to athletes to play in the NFL, etc. Trump ended it, and then re-established it. It's terrible.

Why do y'all keep saying "facts" and then say Trump ended the exemption? Trump DID NOT end the exemption, Secretary of Defense Mattis did. He's an old school, no nonsense, military guy (a badass actually) who butted heads with Trump and later resigned because they did not see eye to eye. I can see why Mattis would end the exemption. I linked the article that has the "facts".

[dawgs]

Why do y'all keep saying "facts" and then say Trump ended the exemption? Trump DID NOT end the exemption, Secretary of Defense Mattis did. He's an old school, no nonsense, military guy (a badass actually) who butted heads with Trump and later resigned because they did not see eye to eye. I can see why Mattis would end the exemption. I linked the article that has the "facts".

Ok, so the trump administration did it. And I guess did it without trump's approval.

[Todd4State]

Good discussion everyone. My only point is that they signed up, went through months of application processes and letters of recommendation from their senators, etc. Earn the right to get one of the best educations in the world. None of that has a damn thing to do with sports. It purely is a necessity for our armed services to have the brightest damn leaders in the country.

Sorry, but you got the education for a reason. And that reason is not to play football, baseball, or basketball professionally. All that happened is we wasted a shit ton of time. The Army could get Labron James to plug commercials for them. If you need wow factor.

True but to me sports is a little bit different because it's not like you can just sign up and go out and be a professional baseball player. You have to be selected. I know and understand that getting into West Point, Annapolis or Colorado Springs is also selective but it's also likely easier to get into and the odds of having success at a high level in the Military are higher once you are in compared to baseball. Also for most pro sports you are out of it well before age 40 and if someone that played pro sports wants to have a military career this gives them the opportunity to still serve once their sports career is over.