Reality check: The last 21 years of MSU baseball

[Quaoarsking]

Over the last 21 years:



1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=1999_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Pat McMahon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McMahon_(baseball))
42-21
15-13
6th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-3rd)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Columbus_ Super_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2001 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2001_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Pat McMahon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McMahon_(baseball))
39-24
17-13
T-4th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (4-0, Won)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Fullerton _Super_Regional) (3-0, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Fullerton _Super_Regional) (0-2, Lost)


2002 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2002_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
34-24-1
14-15
7th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (1-2, T-5th)


2003 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2003_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
42-20-1
17-12
4th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-3rd)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Columbia_ Super_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2004 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2004_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
35-24
13-17
9th
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Atlanta_S uper_Regional) (1-2, 3rd)


2005 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
42-22
13-16
7th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (4-0, Won)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Lincoln_S uper_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2006_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
37-23
12-17
9th
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Clemson_S uper_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
38-22
15-13
4th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (0-2, T-7th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (2-0, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (0-2, T-7th)


2008 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
23-33
9-21
12th



2009 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2009_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
25-29
9-20
12th



2010 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2010_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
23-33
6-24
11th



2011 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
38-25
14-16
6th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (0-2, T-7th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Gainesvil le_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Gainesvil le_Super_Regional) (1-2, Lost)


2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
40-24
16-14
T-5th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (5-1, Won)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Tallahass ee_Super_Regional) (1-2, 3rd)


2013 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
51-20
16-14
5th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (3-1, T-3rd)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Charlotte sville_Super_Regional) (3-1, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Charlotte sville_Super_Regional) (2-0, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (3-2, 2nd)


2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
39-24
18-12
T-3rd
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Oxford_Su per_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2015 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
24-30
8-22
14th



2016 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
44-18-1
21-9
1st
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (1-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won) (#6 National Seed)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (0-2, Lost)


2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Andy Cannizaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Cannizaro)
40-27
17-13
5th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Baton_Rou ge_Super_Regional) (4-1, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Baton_Rou ge_Super_Regional) (0-2, Lost)


2018 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Andy Cannizaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Cannizaro)
Gary Henderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Henderson_(baseball_coach))
39-29
15-15
T-7th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (0-1, T-9th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Nashville _Super_Regional) (4-1, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Nashville _Super_Regional) (2-1, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (2-2, T-3rd)


2019 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Chris Lemonis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lemonis)
52-15
20-10
T-3rd
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (1-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won) (#6 National Seed)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (2-0, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (1-2, T-5th)



Why did I pick 21 years? It's not arbitrary or cherry picking, it's going back the start of the 64-team NCAA format. That way we're comparing apples to apples.

In the last 21 years, we've won 20 SEC games twice. We've won 50 games overall twice. We've been a top 8 national seed twice. We've been to Omaha just 4 times, coming in 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 7th. We've hosted regionals just 5 times.

There are only 2 other seasons that were arguably better than this one, 2013 in which we came on strong in Omaha but weren't nearly as consistent all year, and 2016 in which we choked and didn't even make it Omaha. You could make a strong argument that this was our best season of the last 21, since it was so completely dominant, from start to finish. We didn't have to dig out of a big hole in the SEC like we often did under Cohen, we didn't fail to dig out of a big hole like we often did in Polk II, and we didn't underperform in the postseason like we often have done under everyone.

Anyone giving this season less than an A is just out of touch with reality as far as where we are as a program. It really blows that we lost last night and didn't win a national title, but we simply don't have the results as a program to justify expectations high enough for this season not to be an A.

[AlSwearengen]

Sadly and frustratingly, our on field results do not equal our fan support and passion. The only other fan bases that are in our league would be lsu, Arkansas, USCe to some degree, and maybe A&M is at the end of the street struggling to keep up with the joneses.

Polk was a good coach when no one paid attention. He turned into a zealot more worried with the ncaa. Toward the end he couldn’t decide if he wanted to fight the ncaa, coach, or coach in order to fight with the ncaa. He ended up coming back to coach in order to prove a point and fight with the ncaa. That led to the “MSU baseball dark ages” where the entire sec was allowed to pass us.

Thank God for John Cohen, a good coach with pride for MSU and an intense level of competitiveness. He drove some of us crazy with his unorthodox style but he scratched out wins when his rosters weren’t as talented as a lot of our opponents. We have overcome a lot to have a really good decade.

Now, we have to use our momentum to keep moving forward and improving. We have the fan support, facilities now, and two straight World Series appearances. We should be on the radar of top recruits. If we could figure out a work around on these scholarships, we could really make a jump. And keeping a coach for more than a couple years might do wonders.

[Hot Rock]

If you love baseball, you will show up and support them. This team gave you lots to root for and left it all on the field.

This keeps happening, one day, we may see a title. In the meantime, I will enjoy the process and the games!

[Cooterpoot]

B

[Tbonewannabe]

B

Can you rate why you gave it a B? Last year we had miracles happen to get us to Omaha. We struggled most of the year. We were .500 in the SEC. We did return most of our position players but only 2 pitchers who contributed. This pitching staff did have Ethan Small as a Friday night ace but we have had those type of guys before and not made it to Omaha. Dakota Hudson and Chris Stratton had similar type of seasons but both fell short.

Omaha wasn't a given. These coaches did a great job and the players executed for the most part. This was an A type season to anyone that knows college baseball.

[Cooterpoot]

1. We didn’t win our division
2. We won fewer games at the CWS.
We returned a veteran team, I expected those things. I’m not sure why so many people take my opinion so personally. It’s perfectly fine for me to be disappointed if others aren’t. I’m not arguing with their A. I’m just giving my personal feeling about it. From a historical standpoint, maybe it’s an A. But my expectations were more for THIS season.

[BB30]

Also, people saying we returned virtually everyone off a CWS team loaded with talent fail to realize that same talent was just 10 games over .500 at the end of the season last year.

Now players progress and get better and we added a couple of pieces in the off season but going from 39-29 to 52-15 is quite a large jump. People act like Lemonis inherited a 50 win team and just kept us there where we were at.

Yes we got hot and finished playing much better baseball but last year's team played over their heads at the end of the season. In my honest opinion this team did about as well as one could expect of them but it was always going to take some breaks to get by Vandy and our pen was not nearly deep enough to come out of a losers bracket situation.

Look at OSU last year, they came out of the Losers bracket but they also had 6 kids go in the top 10 rounds last year.

2018 MLB Draft--6 picks all top ten rounds 3 first rounders and 3 more top ten not listed is their ace who would have gone top ten overall in the first
2019 MLB Draft--7 picks 1- first overall pick(catcher) 1--2nd rd pick 1-3rd round pick the rest outside the top 15 rounds but of those 7 picks 4 were pitchers

So on that 18 team you had 5 first round talents including a first overall pick and several pitchers. And no that isn't pulling any duplicates of guys that got drafted both years.

This years Vandy team will look quite similar when it is all said and done.

We have good talent but we don't have the same numbers currently that some of these teams have. Yes, you can win a CWS by getting hot and catching some breaks but your odds aren't going to be as good as those teams with more elite level talent obviously.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

To me it's a B because we seemed to perform our worst or faded when it mattered most. We had plenty of "miracles" this season that helped us get there too.

I think you could argue that the overall improvement of the team was an A.

[Dawgology]

I’d give it a solid A- and the reason I don’t go B+ is because we did everything this season with a brand new head coach which I think made a national statement about the status of our program minus the coach. I think if Lemonis recruits the way they say he can then we will get a NC in baseball sooner rather than later. Hail State!

[BB30]

1. We didn’t win our division
2. We won fewer games at the CWS.
We returned a veteran team, I expected those things. I’m not sure why so many people take my opinion so personally. It’s perfectly fine for me to be disappointed if others aren’t. I’m not arguing with their A. I’m just giving my personal feeling about it. From a historical standpoint, maybe it’s an A. But my expectations were more for THIS season.

We returned a veteran team that went 39-29 the previous year and was extremely close to not even getting into the tournament. Just because they went on a run at the end of the season means nothing. Ron Polk went in 07 with a very average ball club.

If you can't see that Vandy is more talented than us and Arkansas is stupid good playing at home and also has quite a bit of talent that also made it to the CWS I can't help you. I don't think anyone is taking your opinion personally most are just simply dumbfounded by your take and are trying to understand your reasoning.

[msstate7]

Also, people saying we returned virtually everyone off a CWS team loaded with talent fail to realize that same talent was just 10 games over .500 at the end of the season last year.

Now players progress and get better and we added a couple of pieces in the off season but going from 39-29 to 52-15 is quite a large jump. People act like Lemonis inherited a 50 win team and just kept us there where we were at.

Yes we got hot and finished playing much better baseball but last year's team played over their heads at the end of the season. In my honest opinion this team did about as well as one could expect of them but it was always going to take some breaks to get by Vandy and our pen was not nearly deep enough to come out of a losers bracket situation.

Look at OSU last year, they came out of the Losers bracket but they also had 6 kids go in the top 10 rounds last year.

2018 MLB Draft--6 picks all top ten rounds 3 first rounders and 3 more top ten not listed is their ace who would have gone top ten overall in the first
2019 MLB Draft--7 picks 1- first overall pick(catcher) 1--2nd rd pick 1-3rd round pick the rest outside the top 15 rounds but of those 7 picks 4 were pitchers

So on that 18 team you had 5 first round talents including a first overall pick and several pitchers. And no that isn't pulling any duplicates of guys that got drafted both years.

This years Vandy team will look quite similar when it is all said and done.

We have good talent but we don't have the same numbers currently that some of these teams have. Yes, you can win a CWS by getting hot and catching some breaks but your odds aren't going to be as good as those teams with more elite level talent obviously.

Last year's team lost their head coach at the beginning of the year, so we had to break in a ton of new faces and a new coach at the same time. I think last year's team's record probably wasn't a good reflection on its talent level

[Cooterpoot]

We returned a veteran team that went 39-29 the previous year and was extremely close to not even getting into the tournament. Just because they went on a run at the end of the season means nothing. Ron Polk went in 07 with a very average ball club.

If you can't see that Vandy is more talented than us and Arkansas is stupid good playing at home and also has quite a bit of talent that also made it to the CWS I can't help you. I don't think anyone is taking your opinion personally most are just simply dumbfounded by your take and are trying to understand your reasoning.

We returned a CWS team that win a couple games there. Who cares their regular season record? I expect teams to improve from where they finished. We’re better than every team in our bracket but Vandy. Probably better than every team in the other bracket, but Michigan has pitching. Yet, we flopped when it mattered. We faded the last month or so. I expected more. My mind isn’t going to change. We won a lot of games. That’s all you can really say about this team. Should’ve finished better IMO.

[thf24]

Anyone giving this season less than an A is just out of touch with reality as far as where we are as a program.

This might be an unpopular idea, but I think some of us are also just out of touch with the game of baseball, regardless of our program's relevant history. It's a great game, but by nature there's a lot more luck involved than other mainstream sports. That aspect has a lot of positives, but at the same time we're setting ourselves up for misery by not keeping our expectations of winning it all in a double elimination format in any given year tempered. Along the same thread, if we can just work to keep the program where it is now and keep getting ourselves on the stage, we'll eventually win one.

[msstate7]

If you look at the recent sample (2010-present), we have the following finishes: 3 CWS, 3 SR, and 2 regionals. So in the last 9 years, we've finished in the final 16 6 times.

[sleepy dawg]

1. We didn?t win our division
2. We won fewer games at the CWS.
We returned a veteran team, I expected those things. I?m not sure why so many people take my opinion so personally. It?s perfectly fine for me to be disappointed if others aren?t. I?m not arguing with their A. I?m just giving my personal feeling about it. From a historical standpoint, maybe it?s an A. But my expectations were more for THIS season.

I'm curious to know. How many seasons in your life have met or exceeded your expectations?

[BB30]

Last year's team lost their head coach at the beginning of the year, so we had to break in a ton of new faces and a new coach at the same time. I think last year's team's record probably wasn't a good reflection on its talent level

Oh no doubt. But Andy doesn't win 52 games last year even if there isn't any coaching change or controversy. So in my mind this team did improve under the new coaching staff even if it was at a normal rate. My point was that we have some good talent and even a couple of elite guys but we aren't nearly as deep as Vandy. And we really aren't as deep on the mound as Lville is IMO. Especially in the pen. Which makes you vulnerable in a tournament type situation.

Our team was set up pretty good for 3 game weekend sets with 2 quality starters and a couple of guys that could contribute in the back end. I don't think we had the talent out of the pen to drop one of the first two and make a meaningful run. Again just my opinion.

[AlSwearengen]

The people that have played baseball know that you can’t turn it on and off. You can have it told to you, but you still won’t understand it. It just happens and when it does, it is glorious. When it goes the other way, it is torture that you can’t make stop.

I’ve played softball with some of the top non paid players in the south. How do you explain being able to call your score for three games (20 or 30 runs per game) and then all of a sudden, you can’t score 5 that night. There was not a team that was immune to it.

We were not playing our best at the end of the year. Arkansas was in the same boat. Vandy lost several head scratchers early. There was a stretch where Arkansas could play a team made up of vandy’s, olemiss’ and MSU’s best players and beat their ass. They were that hot.

I won’t be concerned with pitching decisions until we have a staff and bullpen with plenty of talented AND polished pitchers. As good as White could be, he wasn’t polished. Liebelt didn’t even go to Omaha last year with a 13 era. I could go on and on but the bottom line is that our pitching decisions were not cut and dry concerning pitchers. A lot of really good teams didn’t make Omaha. Did their coaches do a bad job? Baseball, more than any sport is a player driven game.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Like all other MSU Sports, we are finally starting to pull out of devastation caused by Larry Templeton.

[Dawg2003]

The problem with a tournament is that it measures how you play over 3 weekends. It doesn't measure how well you performed during the year. So it's just a crap shoot in many ways. 4 national seeds didn't make Omaha in the past 2 years.

[MetEdDawg]

We returned a CWS team that win a couple games there. Who cares their regular season record? I expect teams to improve from where they finished. We’re better than every team in our bracket but Vandy. Probably better than every team in the other bracket, but Michigan has pitching. Yet, we flopped when it mattered. We faded the last month or so. I expected more. My mind isn’t going to change. We won a lot of games. That’s all you can really say about this team. Should’ve finished better IMO.

1. I would like to know how many players we would have to have lost for us to not have been expected by you to finish better than last year.

2. I would like to know in what other sports do draw of your opponent and other teams ability to improve not affect the outcome of your team? I think it's actually stupid to think playing Auburn and Vandy should get us a similar outcome to playing Washington and North Carolina. Like that's literally just stupid to not take in to account who you play as part of your evaluation of how a team finishes.

[Scared_Hitless]

1. We didn’t win our division
2. We won fewer games at the CWS.
We returned a veteran team, I expected those things. I’m not sure why so many people take my opinion so personally. It’s perfectly fine for me to be disappointed if others aren’t. I’m not arguing with their A. I’m just giving my personal feeling about it. From a historical standpoint, maybe it’s an A. But my expectations were more for THIS season.

We were picked 6th in our division. We tied for 1st in a division that had 3 of the top 8 teams in the country. Your just looking ti be miserable. Our team got hot last year this year they became a consistent winner.

[Coach34]

If you look at the recent sample (2010-present), we have the following finishes: 3 CWS, 3 SR, and 2 regionals. So in the last 9 years, we've finished in the final 16 6 times.

This is a great point and this quote by another poster in this thread as well:

"Like all other MSU Sports, we are finally starting to pull out of devastation caused by Larry Templeton."

The first 10-11 years of this 21 year time frame was spent dealing with Mac's lack of recruiting- which led to his firing at Fla- and then Polk II and his laziness combined with his belief the program sold itself and he didnt have to recruit on the road. He recruited at on campus camps only. So we literally wasted over a decade or so with those 2 and the Cohen rebuild. Since Cohen rebuilt the program- we have remained a top 20 program in the country that is in the final 16 most of the time. Thats the expectation and its not an unrealistic expectation at all.

My expectations are to make a Super every year. Thats where our program is in this era. Once you get to a Super, all kinds of things can happen and derail your season. Lemon met expectations and made the CWS which is where this team should have been. Guess what? Next year's team should be in a Super at worst as well because of our super Soph class we have that will be starting for their 3rd year in a row. It's up to Lemon to place the pieces around them and get us rolling again. We absolutely should challenge for another CWS berth next Spring. But as long as a Super happens- we will have met expectations.

[Quaoarsking]

We returned a CWS team that win a couple games there. Who cares their regular season record? I expect teams to improve from where they finished. We?re better than every team in our bracket but Vandy. Probably better than every team in the other bracket, but Michigan has pitching. Yet, we flopped when it mattered. We faded the last month or so. I expected more. My mind isn?t going to change. We won a lot of games. That?s all you can really say about this team. Should?ve finished better IMO.

Pretty much everyone, except you I guess. Regular season record is really important in evaluating how good a season was. Yes, postseason is important, and more important on a per-game basis, but in no way was 2018 a better season than 2019, or anywhere close to it really. Yeah, we won 1 more game in Omaha, but we were significantly worse in the regular season and were in doubt of making the NCAA Tournament going into the final weekend. Baseball's not the kind of sport where you can get worked up over single game results. You gotta look at the full seasons.

Had we won the national title in 2018 or any other year, then yes I would call that would be the best season in school history. Otherwise, if I'm ranking 2019 - 2016 - 2013 as the top 3 seasons of the decade in that order.

[Mjoelner34]

Who cares their regular season record?

Guess we should have just tucked our tails and shit the bed after the Arky series and lose 2/3 the rest of the way so we could have gone to a regional at UGA then a super at LSU instead of having homefield advantage for both. THAT'S why the regular season matters and always will. Nothing is a guarantee in the post season but it's a helluva lot easier to do it at home.

[Percho]

Also, people saying we returned virtually everyone off a CWS team loaded with talent fail to realize that same talent was just 10 games over .500 at the end of the season last year.

Now players progress and get better and we added a couple of pieces in the off season but going from 39-29 to 52-15 is quite a large jump. People act like Lemonis inherited a 50 win team and just kept us there where we were at.

Yes we got hot and finished playing much better baseball but last year's team played over their heads at the end of the season. In my honest opinion this team did about as well as one could expect of them but it was always going to take some breaks to get by Vandy and our pen was not nearly deep enough to come out of a losers bracket situation.

Look at OSU last year, they came out of the Losers bracket but they also had 6 kids go in the top 10 rounds last year.

2018 MLB Draft--6 picks all top ten rounds 3 first rounders and 3 more top ten not listed is their ace who would have gone top ten overall in the first
2019 MLB Draft--7 picks 1- first overall pick(catcher) 1--2nd rd pick 1-3rd round pick the rest outside the top 15 rounds but of those 7 picks 4 were pitchers

So on that 18 team you had 5 first round talents including a first overall pick and several pitchers. And no that isn't pulling any duplicates of guys that got drafted both years.

This years Vandy team will look quite similar when it is all said and done.

We have good talent but we don't have the same numbers currently that some of these teams have. Yes, you can win a CWS by getting hot and catching some breaks but your odds aren't going to be as good as those teams with more elite level talent obviously.

You have to have a little luck and consistent umpiring.

[Percho]

This is a great point and this quote by another poster in this thread as well:

"Like all other MSU Sports, we are finally starting to pull out of devastation caused by Larry Templeton."

The first 10-11 years of this 21 year time frame was spent dealing with Mac's lack of recruiting- which led to his firing at Fla- and then Polk II and his laziness combined with his belief the program sold itself and he didnt have to recruit on the road. He recruited at on campus camps only. So we literally wasted over a decade or so with those 2 and the Cohen rebuild. Since Cohen rebuilt the program- we have remained a top 20 program in the country that is in the final 16 most of the time. Thats the expectation and its not an unrealistic expectation at all.

My expectations are to make a Super every year. Thats where our program is in this era. Once you get to a Super, all kinds of things can happen and derail your season. Lemon met expectations and made the CWS which is where this team should have been. Guess what? Next year's team should be in a Super at worst as well because of our super Soph class we have that will be starting for their 3rd year in a row. It's up to Lemon to place the pieces around them and get us rolling again. We absolutely should challenge for another CWS berth next Spring. But as long as a Super happens- we will have met expectations.

Thanks,

You made a post i like and agree with.

[Todd4State]

This is a great point and this quote by another poster in this thread as well:

"Like all other MSU Sports, we are finally starting to pull out of devastation caused by Larry Templeton."

The first 10-11 years of this 21 year time frame was spent dealing with Mac's lack of recruiting- which led to his firing at Fla- and then Polk II and his laziness combined with his belief the program sold itself and he didnt have to recruit on the road. He recruited at on campus camps only. So we literally wasted over a decade or so with those 2 and the Cohen rebuild. Since Cohen rebuilt the program- we have remained a top 20 program in the country that is in the final 16 most of the time. Thats the expectation and its not an unrealistic expectation at all.

My expectations are to make a Super every year. Thats where our program is in this era. Once you get to a Super, all kinds of things can happen and derail your season. Lemon met expectations and made the CWS which is where this team should have been. Guess what? Next year's team should be in a Super at worst as well because of our super Soph class we have that will be starting for their 3rd year in a row. It's up to Lemon to place the pieces around them and get us rolling again. We absolutely should challenge for another CWS berth next Spring. But as long as a Super happens- we will have met expectations.

Lots of great posts in this thread.

LT was horrible. That's why I do not clap for him when he is introduced at football games. I don't boo him. But I won't give someone that made the worst decision in MSU baseball history an ovation.


My expectations are basically the same as yours. Get to a SR and to me that means that you are an elite program in the country. At the same time I won't throw a parade because we made a SR. The ceiling is a National Championship and I expect to make it to Omaha every year.

[Todd4State]

You have to have a little luck and consistent umpiring.

We have to up our talent level a little bit. Not that much. Our team is VERY good- but essentially we were third in the SEC behind Vanderbilt and Arkansas. Obviously we can compete and even beat those teams- especially Arkansas. We need to get three Dakota Hudson/Chris Stratton/JT Ginn/Ethan Small types along with a couple of elite Lindgren/Holder type relievers to do it.

Talent takes out some of the luck equation.

[Todd4State]

Also for some context:

Currently there are three SEC coaches that have won National Titles.

Paul Manieri won one his third year at LSU but that was 2009 and since then they have a similar resume to us. We have the same amount of CWS appearances and the same amount of Finals appearances and both of us lost in the finals. The only difference is we were rebuilding some during this stretch but other than that same amount of CWS appearances and Super Regional appearances. For all intents and purposes we are basically on par with LSU right now. And for the "LSU owns us" people- going 2-3 against LSU isn't being "owned". Owning someone would be like MSU going 4-0 against Ole Miss.


Kevin O'Sullivan won one in 2017 which was his 10th year in the program and 6th CWS appearance. He did have a rebuild and it took him three years to get to his first CWS appearance. So it took him about seven years after the rebuild to do it. Since 2013 Florida only has one more CWS appearance than we do- however they did have a stretch of four in a row which was snapped this year. Which I thought was interesting. They had a small lull like we did in 2014-2015 before they hit their stride.


Tim Corbin- He had a bigger rebuild and had years of missing out on even going to Omaha. In fact it took him nine years to even get there. Interestingly enough since 2011 they have one more appearance in the CWS than we do and since 2013 we have the same amount of appearances. We both have the same amount of Super Regional appearances since 2011.


My point is we're pretty close but we still have to improve a little bit. The biggest thing I see right now is with pitching. When Cerentola was unable to take the Sunday spot it really hurt us as far as winning a National Title goes. We also need to improve the quality of our bullpen arms a little bit too. Also we have to be a little smarter about how we manage our staff and not put our worst pitchers in during the highest leverage situation of the year. We have to somehow get a team where we can sync it up where we have a lot of junior hitters and pitchers at the same time which has been an issue- we probably have a National Title if 2014 Jacob Lindgren is on the 2013 team.


So, we're not far but also need to continue to improve a little bit. Hopefully now that we have some stability with our program's coaching situation and stadium we'll be able to take that next step.

[Cooterpoot]

Pretty much everyone, except you I guess. Regular season record is really important in evaluating how good a season was. Yes, postseason is important, and more important on a per-game basis, but in no way was 2018 a better season than 2019, or anywhere close to it really. Yeah, we won 1 more game in Omaha, but we were significantly worse in the regular season and were in doubt of making the NCAA Tournament going into the final weekend. Baseball's not the kind of sport where you can get worked up over single game results. You gotta look at the full seasons.

Had we won the national title in 2018 or any other year, then yes I would call that would be the best season in school history. Otherwise, if I'm ranking 2019 - 2016 - 2013 as the top 3 seasons of the decade in that order.

2013 was our best season. Not close. Look at Michigan this year. Nothing special all year, barely made the tournament. Chance to win it all. It?s how you finish that matters. Next year expectations will be lower. This year was a good year that finished poorly. If winning it all didn?t matter, there wouldn?t be a CWS. Anything short of that is simply a good season.

[Cooterpoot]

We were picked 6th in our division. We tied for 1st in a division that had 3 of the top 8 teams in the country. Your just looking ti be miserable. Our team got hot last year this year they became a consistent winner.

I didn’t pick us 6th. What do I care what they were picked? I obviously had more faith in them than a lot of people. I thought we could have a shot to win it all if things fell right. They didn’t. But at least I believed in them.

[AlSwearengen]

We have to up our talent level a little bit. Not that much. Our team is VERY good- but essentially we were third in the SEC behind Vanderbilt and Arkansas. Obviously we can compete and even beat those teams- especially Arkansas. We need to get three Dakota Hudson/Chris Stratton/JT Ginn/Ethan Small types along with a couple of elite Lindgren/Holder type relievers to do it.

Talent takes out some of the luck equation.

I hope our fans are paying attention to the arms that we have seen in the super regional and cws. We had Small and JT, which are basically 1st round talents. Small worked his way there and JT arrived at that level (unfortunately, he wasn’t 100% down the stretch). Next year, Vandy will have Rocker and Leiter, both of which would have been drafted in the 1st round. Getting JT was unusual for us, Vandy does it somewhat regularly.

Looking at our bullpen, Gordon and Liebelt were our first out of the pen and later round draft choices. All of these other teams are bringing in top 10 round relievers and multiples of them.

We are not far off at all, we just need more higher round depth and we need to get at least two or three recruits each year that lsu and Vandy really coveted and that will come to school. Doesn’t do us any good if they can’t wait to sign a pro contract.

[preachermatt83]

Over the last 21 years:



1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=1999_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Pat McMahon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McMahon_(baseball))
42-21
15-13
6th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-3rd)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Columbus_ Super_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2001 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2001_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Pat McMahon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_McMahon_(baseball))
39-24
17-13
T-4th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (4-0, Won)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Fullerton _Super_Regional) (3-0, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Fullerton _Super_Regional) (0-2, Lost)


2002 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2002_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
34-24-1
14-15
7th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (1-2, T-5th)


2003 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2003_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
42-20-1
17-12
4th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-3rd)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Columbia_ Super_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2004 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2004_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
35-24
13-17
9th
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Atlanta_S uper_Regional) (1-2, 3rd)


2005 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
42-22
13-16
7th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (4-0, Won)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Lincoln_S uper_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2006_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
37-23
12-17
9th
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Clemson_S uper_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
38-22
15-13
4th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (0-2, T-7th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (2-0, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (0-2, T-7th)


2008 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Ron Polk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Polk)
23-33
9-21
12th



2009 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2009_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
25-29
9-20
12th



2010 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php-title=2010_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_tea m&action=edit&redlink=1)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
23-33
6-24
11th



2011 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
38-25
14-16
6th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (0-2, T-7th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Gainesvil le_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Gainesvil le_Super_Regional) (1-2, Lost)


2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
40-24
16-14
T-5th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (5-1, Won)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Tallahass ee_Super_Regional) (1-2, 3rd)


2013 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
51-20
16-14
5th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (3-1, T-3rd)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Charlotte sville_Super_Regional) (3-1, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Charlotte sville_Super_Regional) (2-0, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (3-2, 2nd)


2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
39-24
18-12
T-3rd
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Oxford_Su per_Regional) (2-2, 2nd)


2015 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
24-30
8-22
14th



2016 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
John Cohen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cohen_(baseball))
44-18-1
21-9
1st
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (1-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won) (#6 National Seed)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (0-2, Lost)


2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Andy Cannizaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Cannizaro)
40-27
17-13
5th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (2-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Baton_Rou ge_Super_Regional) (4-1, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Baton_Rou ge_Super_Regional) (0-2, Lost)


2018 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Andy Cannizaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Cannizaro)
Gary Henderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Henderson_(baseball_coach))
39-29
15-15
T-7th
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (0-1, T-9th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Nashville _Super_Regional) (4-1, Won)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Nashville _Super_Regional) (2-1, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (2-2, T-3rd)


2019 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Mississippi_State_Bulldogs_baseball_team)
Chris Lemonis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lemonis)
52-15
20-10
T-3rd
SEC Tournament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Southeastern_Conference_Baseball_Tournament) (1-2, T-5th)
NCAA Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (3-0, Won) (#6 National Seed)
NCAA Super Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#Starkvill e_Super_Regional) (2-0, Won)
College World Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NCAA_Division_I_Baseball_Tournament#College_W orld_Series) (1-2, T-5th)



Why did I pick 21 years? It's not arbitrary or cherry picking, it's going back the start of the 64-team NCAA format. That way we're comparing apples to apples.

In the last 21 years, we've won 20 SEC games twice. We've won 50 games overall twice. We've been a top 8 national seed twice. We've been to Omaha just 4 times, coming in 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 7th. We've hosted regionals just 5 times.

There are only 2 other seasons that were arguably better than this one, 2013 in which we came on strong in Omaha but weren't nearly as consistent all year, and 2016 in which we choked and didn't even make it Omaha. You could make a strong argument that this was our best season of the last 21, since it was so completely dominant, from start to finish. We didn't have to dig out of a big hole in the SEC like we often did under Cohen, we didn't fail to dig out of a big hole like we often did in Polk II, and we didn't underperform in the postseason like we often have done under everyone.

Anyone giving this season less than an A is just out of touch with reality as far as where we are as a program. It really blows that we lost last night and didn't win a national title, but we simply don't have the results as a program to justify expectations high enough for this season not to be an A.

Excellent post. Outstanding!!

[WSOPdawg]

Also for some context:
...The biggest thing I see right now is with pitching. When Cerentola was unable to take the Sunday spot it really hurt us as far as winning a National Title goes. We also need to improve the quality of our bullpen arms ...


Agree, a Girodo or Holder on this year's team would've been huge coupled with Gordon, Liebelt, White, et al. We were THAT close imo.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Factoring out bad umps, pissed off Indians, coaching, fan support and facilities, message board opinions, LT, Polk II, "we are Miss State" mentality, higher expectations than Michigan or UCLA, and a lot of luck it all comes down to this:

Perfect Game Rankings

2019 College Baseball Recruiting Class

Rank School HS Commits Top 100 Points Avg Player
1 Vanderbilt 20 8 193 9.65
2 Louisiana State 16 8 152 9.50
3 Florida 18 6 143 7.94
4 Mississippi 19 4 131 6.89
5 Texas A&M 15 5 116 7.73
6 Mississippi State 17 4 113 6.65
7 Miami 14 3 112 8.00
8 TCU 16 3 109 6.81
9 Florida Int'l 19 1 106 5.58
10 Georgia Tech 20 1 103 5.15
11 Auburn 15 2 102 6.80
12 Arkansas 19 1 101 5.32
13 Arizona 14 2 100 7.14
14 North Carolina 14 2 99 7.07
15 Florida State 16 1 98 6.13

[Tbonewannabe]

I hope our fans are paying attention to the arms that we have seen in the super regional and cws. We had Small and JT, which are basically 1st round talents. Small worked his way there and JT arrived at that level (unfortunately, he wasn’t 100% down the stretch). Next year, Vandy will have Rocker and Leiter, both of which would have been drafted in the 1st round. Getting JT was unusual for us, Vandy does it somewhat regularly.

Looking at our bullpen, Gordon and Liebelt were our first out of the pen and later round draft choices. All of these other teams are bringing in top 10 round relievers and multiples of them.

We are not far off at all, we just need more higher round depth and we need to get at least two or three recruits each year that lsu and Vandy really coveted and that will come to school. Doesn’t do us any good if they can’t wait to sign a pro contract.

This is exactly what I noticed for most of the teams. If Leibelt or Gordon weren't "on" then we were lucky to survive. We also had one pitcher on the roster that had a chance to throw a complete game and he was our Sunday starter.

[Todd4State]

Agree, a Girodo or Holder on this year's team would've been huge coupled with Gordon, Liebelt, White, et al. We were THAT close imo.

Absolutely correct. And we really should have used Colby way more than we did. To me, I want our top three relief guys to be flame throwing strikeout guys. That's what Vanderbilt has. The pitch to contact guys need to be our middle and long relief options for midweek games or when our starter doesn't have it and we need to pull them early or to eat up innings in the SEC Tournament.

[Todd4State]

This is exactly what I noticed for most of the teams. If Leibelt or Gordon weren't "on" then we were lucky to survive. We also had one pitcher on the roster that had a chance to throw a complete game and he was our Sunday starter.

The thing is pitch to contact guys like Leibelt and Self are going to give up hits from time to time by nature. They will also induce a lot of ground balls or weak contact too so there are two sides to the coin. The "problem" with that is there are situations where you sometimes need a strikeout and you need a power strikeout guy to come in and get a strikeout because even if a guy like Leibelt or Self do their jobs- a fly ball, a groundout, and in some situations with no one out even a double play will result in a run even though we didn't do a bad job of pitching. Those runs become very valuable in Omaha when you are facing elite pitching in a pitchers ballpark and runs are going to be at a premium.