Question for Hud fans...

[Red Sox Dawg]

for the record, I am in the wait and see this season's results and giving Dan the opportunity to fix them before making a coaching change camp. I have been a MSU fan for 44 years and have witnessed coaching changes and I personally believe Dan should be given that opportunity for what he has accomplished here.

My question is why didn't the ninja hire Hud as the head coach instead of Mullen? He was available. I'll hang up and listen.

Please answer the question and let's not debate my opinion, it's just an opinion.

[Rick Danko]

Proven championship OC at a SEC power school versus head coach of a division I-AA (I believe) or smaller school. Answer pretty much speaks for itself to me

[engie]

Hud was unproven on the FBS level at that time. It's unheard of to hire a HC in the SEC from D2.

If Byrne was making the decision again today, with what we know now, he would hire HUD as HC like he damn near did the first time -- and even put him on his short list at Arizona before hiring RichRod.

[Red Sox Dawg]

Proven championship OC at a SEC power school versus head coach of a division I-AA (I believe) or smaller school. Answer pretty much speaks for itself to me

So the ninja didn't think Hud was the best option? What has changed? Yes Hud has done well at ULL but regardless Dan has done well for MSU, look at our past. Not saying we are as good as we can be or we aren't where we want to be, but Mullen has lead us out of a quagmire regardless of where we are compared to the elite SEC teams.

[SnakePlissken]

So the ninja didn't think Hud was the best option? What has changed? Yes Hud has done well at ULL but regardless Dan has done well for MSU, look at our past. Not saying we are as good as we can be or we aren't where we want to be, but Mullen has lead us out of a quagmire regardless of where we are compared to the elite SEC teams.
That is kind of my thing.... Dan had ZERO HC experience and while it was D2 experience Hud had HC experience, was a "MS guy" with thousands of connections, was a proven winner on the D2 level, etc. In short, he had more going for him than Dan did yet the Ninja went with Mullen. I've often wondered about that. I think Dan has done fine with us (3 straight bowls) but we'll have to see if he can keep it going. I'm not on the fire Mullen bus yet but I'm not on the hire Hud bus yet either.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Mullen was the right hire at the time. Hudspeth is ready now.

[engie]

So the ninja didn't think Hud was the best option? What has changed? Yes Hud has done well at ULL but regardless Dan has done well for MSU, look at our past. Not saying we are as good as we can be or we aren't where we want to be, but Mullen has lead us out of a quagmire regardless of where we are compared to the elite SEC teams.

Tebow is a distant memory. That is what has changed. And what has proven to be the mastermind of that offense has now won 19 straight somewhere else, while our BEST offense at MSU finished 42nd of 120. But it's our best evar!!1!1 But, yeah, we just fired a DC for having a defense ranked in the 30s.

Meanwhile, Mullen peaked in year 2 with Croom's recruits. And it's been a slow downhill slide since. We're 3-3. We coached ourselves out of a chance to be 5-1. We haven't won a toss-up game in 30+ chances. That's more than a trend. It means we are being OUTCOACHED in all these games.

All while the golden boy took over the WORST program in FBS -- #120 -- and will, in all likelihood, have proceeded to go 28-10 in his first 3 years there. By winning percentage, that makes him a top 5 coach in ALL OF FBS. He's currently #8. AT THE WORST PROGRAM ON THE FBS LEVEL.

[CJDAWG85]

I think it's funny that all of these people think Hud is a sure thing. If Mullen was at UL-L, would he look as good as Hud? You're crazy if you say no. I'm not saying Hud isn't a good coach, because he definitely is a solid coach.

[Rick Danko]

So the ninja didn't think Hud was the best option? What has changed? Yes Hud has done well at ULL but regardless Dan has done well for MSU, look at our past. Not saying we are as good as we can be or we aren't where we want to be, but Mullen has lead us out of a quagmire regardless of where we are compared to the elite SEC teams.

Consistently winning at the school he is at right now with all signs pointing up. Proving himself capable of captaining the ship of a Division I program. I am not saying Mullen has not done well here, and for the record, do not agree with running him off at this time, however, it is hard to deny at this point the trend moving downwards as opposed to the upward momentum we had a few years back. Is Hud the answer, I do not pretend to know, but as to your original question, he was not the answer at that time.

[CadaverDawg]

I think it's funny that all of these people think Hud is a sure thing. If Mullen was at UL-L, would he look as good as Hud? You're crazy if you say no. I'm not saying Hud isn't a good coach, because he definitely is a solid coach.

Who said he was a sure thing winner?

Is Dan? We may not win 6 this year...so no not a "sure thing".

Nobody is a sure thing. You have to be willing to take a risk if you think it could propel us to the next level. It's obvious Dan isnt taking us there. But I appreciate him getting us to where we have been the last 3 years

[CJDAWG85]

No... I meant as in coming to us.

[engie]

I think it's funny that all of these people think Hud is a sure thing. If Mullen was at UL-L, would he look as good as Hud? You're crazy if you say no. I'm not saying Hud isn't a good coach, because he definitely is a solid coach.

Successful coaches in the Sun Belt have gone on to destroy Mullen in the SEC. He's 0-1 against Freeze and 0-4 against Malzahn. Why do you think that would that suddenly change if the games were played on a different level?

[Political Hack]

The ninja did hire Hud. he was on staff before CDM was. CDM was a few hours from missing his yes/no deadline. I've even heard that Hud was about to be announced as the HFC before CDM called and took it. Then he was told we had already hired his OC. Mullen agreed to co-OC and the feud began...

[CJDAWG85]

Malzahn is 1-0 as a HC against him... So is Freeze... This conversation is a moot point right now... Mullen needs to change some things... sure... but he hasn't done anything worth running him off.

[CJDAWG85]

The ninja did hire Hud. he was on staff before CDM was. CDM was a few hours from missing his yes/no deadline. I've even heard that Hud was about to be announced as the HFC before CDM called and took it. Then he was told we had already hired his OC. Mullen agreed to co-OC and the feud began...

Pretty sure Hud was not happy with us when he left for UL-L.

[MrKotter]

I think it's funny that all of these people think Hud is a sure thing. If Mullen was at UL-L, would he look as good as Hud? You're crazy if you say no. I'm not saying Hud isn't a good coach, because he definitely is a solid coach.

Going off your assumption, how do you know Mullen would do as well at ULL? You killed your own argument

[engie]

Pretty sure Hud was not happy with us when he left for UL-L.

Did you read what he actually wrote?

[CJDAWG85]

Yes I did.

[engie]

Malzahn is 1-0 as a HC against him... So is Freeze... This conversation is a moot point right now... Mullen needs to change some things... sure... but he hasn't done anything worth running him off.

"Needs to change some things"?

Where were these changes when he totally shat the bed in 5 of the last 6 games last year? The past offseason was when the changes needed to be made. He's past the grace period now. It's year 5. The little crap should be fixed by now. And recruiting should damn sure be going better than it is -- which has now regressed to year 2 levels.

To me, it's the epitome of "poor ole MSU" to say "he hasn't done anything worth running him off yet" -- when he's been average or slightly above -- and the hottest name in coaching is knocking down the door to get in. People are willing to miss on the guy whose dream job is at MSU -- who is #8 in winning percentage in FBS and can/will recruit MS like NO OTHER -- in order to hold on to an "average" coach that still doesn't think he has to recruit?

[DownwardDawg]

Pretty sure Hud was not happy with us when he left for UL-L.

He was not happy with Mullen. They dislike each other. It was very obvious when Hud was here.

[engie]

Yes I did.

So, you just totally failed to comprehend it?


Mullen agreed to co-OC and the feud began...

[CJDAWG85]

Get his swagger back. He needs to get cocky again. You're right... We need to run off the guy who has been the best coach we've ever had. What if we beat TSUN this year? Mullen is 4-1 against them. Still want to fire him?

[CJDAWG85]

So, you just totally failed to comprehend it?



Maybe I read it wrong.

[BHildreth3]

Cadaver's right. You have to take the risk if you think it will propel us to the next level. Hudspeth will take us further than Dan will. I thought that even a few years ago. It's not just a W/L issue. It's more than Hudspeth vs Mullen.... It's Mark Hudspeth is the perfect fit for MSU, due to a long list of reasons. If we lose Thursday and lose the rest of our games, I hope we take the opportunity to be aggressive and gamble a bit.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Tebow is a distant memory. That is what has changed. And what has proven to be the mastermind of that offense has now won 19 straight somewhere else, while our BEST offense at MSU finished 42nd of 120. But it's our best evar!!1!1 But, yeah, we just fired a DC for having a defense ranked in the 30s.

Meanwhile, Mullen peaked in year 2 with Croom's recruits. And it's been a slow downhill slide since. We're 3-3. We coached ourselves out of a chance to be 5-1. We haven't won a toss-up game in 30+ chances. That's more than a trend. It means we are being OUTCOACHED in all these games.

All while the golden boy took over the WORST program in FBS -- #120 -- and will, in all likelihood, have proceeded to go 28-10 in his first 3 years there. By winning percentage, that makes him a top 5 coach in ALL OF FBS. He's currently #8. AT THE WORST PROGRAM ON THE FBS LEVEL.

I will say that just judging by message board chatter and conversations with friends that I am happy with the expectations of our fans at least. It seems like a lot of people are not happy with Mullen and there is NO WAY there would be this much chatter given a similar football circumstance even 10 years ago. Of course maybe this is due to the increase in social media.

[Dawgfan77]

You people all in on the keep Dan band wagon answer me these questions
1. Do we play with relentless effort
2. Are we playing up to or beyond our potential in big games
3. Are we upgrading our talent in year 5 beyond what he inherited
4. In year 5 are we better than we were in year 2 as a program
5. How do you view the program now. Moving up, stagnate or getting worse

I will hang up and listen

[CadaverDawg]

Hud also outrecruited Petrino last year, and is again this year so far. #1 class in Sunbelt last year and this year so far

[Red Sox Dawg]

Cadaver's right. You have to take the risk if you think it will propel us to the next level. Hudspeth will take us further than Dan will. I thought that even a few years ago. It's not just a W/L issue. It's more than Hudspeth vs Mullen.... It's Mark Hudspeth is the perfect fit for MSU, due to a long list of reasons. If we lose Thursday and lose the rest of our games, I hope we take the opportunity to be aggressive and gamble a bit.

If we lose the rest of our games Dan will be on the hot seat. I don't think he would be fired, but I don't make those decisions. Mullen is one of the top coaches to ever be at MSU and not giving him the chance to fix it is wrong in my opinion. As for your statement that Hudspeth will take us farther and is perfect for us, well that's just an opinion too, no way to know for sure.

I wonder if this "fire Dan now" sentiment is a generational difference? I have 5 children (3 currently enrolled at MSU) and in general their generation looks for immediate gratification where as people who have "been around for a while" (i don't consider myself old) tend to be a little more patient. Just an opinion and observation. Any thought on this?

[bluelightstar]

He had his chance to fix it. We're making the same mistakes now that we were making during the losing streak last year. We are not any better.

[BHildreth3]

I don't want to fire mullen bc it's year five and I want instant gratification. I look at it like business. Hudspeth is more impressive than Dan for, keywords here - our school. We can't expect to just hire anybody and it expect it to work. I think at State if you find someone with all the things he brings to the table, you take the risk to possibly win a lot of games and he stay til the end. Hudspeth upgrades our recruiting, instantly as well....

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

I wonder if this "fire Dan now" sentiment is a generational difference? I have 5 children (3 currently enrolled at MSU) and in general their generation looks for immediate gratification where as people who have "been around for a while" (i don't consider myself old) tend to be a little more patient. Just an opinion and observation. Any thought on this?

Football coaches get paid outrageous sums of money. I don't see any problem with wanting them to produce. How many years do you let your employees perform poorly before you fire them?

[engie]

Hud also outrecruited Petrino last year, and is again this year so far. #1 class in Sunbelt last year and this year so far

That part will continue. Petrino can't recruit... and Hud is building bridges to become the clear #2 option in Louisiana if he, for whatever reason, chose to stick around down there. He could put together undefeated seasons at ULL where he goes into the Boise St role and picks off an SEC/ACC team. No doubt in my mind. And he's in a better recruiting area than Boise by a mile...

[Red Sox Dawg]

Football coaches get paid outrageous sums of money. I don't see any problem with wanting them to produce. How many years do you let your employees perform poorly before you fire them?

Yes most D1 college football are paid well and there is no problem wanting them to produce. I don't let my employees perform poorly for years, I try to get them to do better, but I don't fire them when they mess up the first time unless it's blatantly egregious or dangerous. I sit them down and explain things first, then warn them, next suspend them, and then fire them if they can't get it right (4 step progressive discipline). That wasn't really the question. How about you? Do you fire your employees the first time they make a mistake?

[engie]

He had his chance to fix it. We're making the same mistakes now that we were making during the losing streak last year. We are not any better.

Exactly.

Last offseason was the grace period. The issues could not have possibly been made any more obvious after how that ended. And I gave him the benefit of the doubt through that and went to bat for him in the offseason, despite being on the record how I thought it was a mistake to bring back Sallach and Koenning for a Tyler Russell-led offense. I fought against the loss of momentum in our program. Fought to keep people on the Mullen bandwagon. After all that -- he came out this year and promptly laid a couple of eggs in games we had a chance to win.

I have NOT seen issues be adequately addressed this year. He does not deserve two full years to fix problems that the most average of fans can see in 5 minutes and propose the solution to. Hell, GREAT coaches fix many of these problems at HALFTIME. Some of the stuff is almost Croomish at this point. Would Dak have EVER gotten his shot had Tyler not gotten dinged? The answer is no. So, any perceived "improvement" on offense is strictly accidental in my opinion. A bunch of people saw this coming from a mile away...

I'm not a bandwagon hopper, nor a roller coaster fan. I'm slow and cautions to make decisions on this type of thing and try to always look at the big picture. I never questioned Cohen in those first 2 years. But Polk permanently lost me in 03 when he threw Maholm game 1. Croom never had me. And I saw cracks in Jackie's armor in the LSU game in 2000. I saw issues with Mullen beginning when he quit against LSU in 2011 -- but I can forgive mistakes. What I can't forgive is the failure to learn from them -- and then making them repeatedly and losing games in the process. Those same mistakes are still being made.

My mind is prettymuch made up at this point. I fully expect him to go 6-6. That's the theme of the past 3 years. Do just enough to get by. We'll be high as a fanbase when we blow out Kentucky, only to have our hearts ripped out by late game coaching decisions in Columbia, SC...

[Political Hack]

we're a scheduling mistake and one play away from being 5-1 right now. It's not like the program has tanked under CDM.

lots of football left to play. I love Hud. think he could winning here, but all of this chatter is incredibly premature IMO.

[Percho]

Exactly.

Last offseason was the grace period. The issues could not have possibly been made any more obvious after how that ended. And I gave him the benefit of the doubt through that and went to bat for him in the offseason, despite being on the record how I thought it was a mistake to bring back Sallach and Koenning for a Tyler Russell-led offense. I fought against the loss of momentum in our program. Fought to keep people on the Mullen bandwagon. After all that -- he came out this year and promptly laid a couple of eggs in games we had a chance to win.

I have NOT seen issues be adequately addressed this year. He does not deserve two full years to fix problems that the most average of fans can see in 5 minutes and propose the solution to. Hell, GREAT coaches fix many of these problems at HALFTIME. Some of the stuff is almost Croomish at this point. Would Dak have EVER gotten his shot had Tyler not gotten dinged? The answer is no. So, any perceived "improvement" on offense is strictly accidental in my opinion. A bunch of people saw this coming from a mile away...

I'm not a bandwagon hopper, nor a roller coaster fan. I'm slow and cautions to make decisions on this type of thing and try to always look at the big picture. I never questioned Cohen in those first 2 years. But Polk permanently lost me in 03 when he threw Maholm game 1. Croom never had me. And I saw cracks in Jackie's armor in the LSU game in 2000. I saw issues with Mullen beginning when he quit against LSU in 2011 -- but I can forgive mistakes. What I can't forgive is the failure to learn from them -- and then making them repeatedly and losing games in the process. Those same mistakes are still being made.

My mind is prettymuch made up at this point. I fully expect him to go 6-6. That's the theme of the past 3 years. Do just enough to get by. We'll be high as a fanbase when we blow out Kentucky, only to have our hearts ripped out by late game coaching decisions in Columbia, SC...

I am a little different than most here. Take the TR thing. I believe we could have won with TR but not if we are gong to have 3 or 4 movement penalties every game. That is the problem I have with CDM. He hasn't cleaned up little things like that. Also he is not aggressive enough on either side of the ball and shows no signs of changing that. I really believe he is afraid of trying new things and new players.

[engie]

we're a scheduling mistake and one play away from being 5-1 right now. It's not like the program has tanked under CDM.

lots of football left to play. I love Hud. think he could winning here, but all of this chatter is incredibly premature IMO.

Doesn't have to tank to see it headed toward the tank.

We're also 1 play away from being 2-4 right now with a loss to a MAC team that hit us in the mouth and ended our season in mid October.