The bell is ringing - It's Jo'Quavious Marks!!!

[confucius say]

Marks?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Marks has committed to the good guys!!!!

[Commercecomet24]

That's great news!

[Tbonewannabe]

So was this guy our #1 RB prospect? With Kylin (probably) and Gibson leaving after this year, I am guessing he gets on the field in some capacity as a freshman.

[confucius say]

For those who are big on individual recruiting rankings, Marks is rated a fairly good bit higher than both Hill and Aries were rated. Not sure the last time we landed an out of state rb rated this highly (or any position for for that matter).

[West Tn Dawg]

Yep, Jo'Quavious Marks it is. Great pick-up.

[HoopsDawg]

So was this guy our #1 RB prospect? With Kylin (probably) and Gibson leaving after this year, I am guessing he gets on the field in some capacity as a freshman.

If Kylin goes pro we don't have any RB's on the roster except for Walker and Witherspoon. So yeah, he will probably be the starter as a true freshman.

[msstate7]

For those who are big on individual recruiting rankings, Marks is rated a fairly good bit higher than both Hill and Aries were rated. Not sure the last time we landed an out of state rb rated this highly (or any position for for that matter).

Whop and key

[confucius say]

So was this guy our #1 RB prospect? With Kylin (probably) and Gibson leaving after this year, I am guessing he gets on the field in some capacity as a freshman.


Whop and key

Both of those guys were below 93. Marks is above 93.

All using 247 composite

[BuckyIsAB****]

Got to be a tough few days for the Fire Moorhead crowd

[msstate7]

Both of those guys were below 93. Marks is above 93.

All using 247 composite

.9334
.9297
.9258

I guess

[Doggie_Style]

Got to be a tough few days for the Fire Moorhead crowd

Keepin the heat on Joe is starting to pay off***

[confucius say]

So was this guy our #1 RB prospect? With Kylin (probably) and Gibson leaving after this year, I am guessing he gets on the field in some capacity as a freshman.


.9334
.9297
.9258

I guess

Yep. I'm not big on individual recruiting rankings, but I know a lot of people are. Marks would be the highest rated out of state signee since nick turner in 2002, who is listed as a .9344 on 247. Also from atl, interestingly.

[msstate7]

Yep. I'm not big on individual recruiting rankings, but I know a lot of people are. Marks would be the highest rated out of state signee since nick turner in 2002, who is listed as a .9344 on 247. Also from atl, interestingly.

I was a huge fan of nick turner. That's who the 7 on my handle was for. I've had this handle for a long time

[HoopsDawg]

Got to be a tough few days for the Fire Moorhead crowd

You've made this post in 2 different threads, Why? Who is the fire Moorhead crowd? Why has it been a tough few days, b/c we got a good RB commitment?

[confucius say]

So was this guy our #1 RB prospect? With Kylin (probably) and Gibson leaving after this year, I am guessing he gets on the field in some capacity as a freshman.


I was a huge fan of nick turner. That's who the 7 on my handle was for. I've had this handle for a long time

Huge smile. Big heart. Cared about people too, even the little people on the team. Sad ending

[Bdawg]

Great job by Moorhead and staff!! At least we got this guy to take it one step farther in the process than we did with Emory. Now let's just make sure we ink him. Also what's the likelihood this kid blows up this summer or fall in camps and games that we have really work hard to fend off the really big boys?

[fishwater99]

So was this guy our #1 RB prospect? With Kylin (probably) and Gibson leaving after this year, I am guessing he gets on the field in some capacity as a freshman.

What makes you think Hill is going pro?

[hacker]

Great job by Moorhead and staff!! At least we got this guy to take it one step farther in the process than we did with Emory. Now let's just make sure we ink him. Also what's the likelihood this kid blows up this summer or fall in camps and games that we have really work hard to fend off the really big boys?

What offer is he gonna get that he doesn't already have? Georgia is the only one I can think of.

[hacker]

What makes you think Hill is going pro?

I think it's a foregone conclusion at this point. Hell, even Marks mentioned it in his commitment interview this morning.

[msstate7]

What makes you think Hill is going pro?

Cbs' way too early look at 2020 draft lists hill in top 100

[deadheaddawg]

You've made this post in 2 different threads, Why? Who is the fire Moorhead crowd? Why has it been a tough few days, b/c we got a good RB commitment?

Foambible and shotgun are two. There are others I am sure.

Part of the reason is they perceive Moorhead as an incompetent in recruiter. Or at least they love to take the opportunity to bash Moorhead if we have bad recruiting news

So it has been without question a bad couples of days for foambible and shotgun. This gets in the way of their narrative they want to push

[GeorgeKaplan]

.9334
.9297
.9258

I guess

Question for some here (and you know who you are):

Does it hurt more jumping off the bandwagon or jumping back on?

[msstate7]

Question for some here (and you know who you are):

Does it hurt more jumping off the bandwagon or jumping back on?

Huh? I'm still very concerned with this hire. I do like the recruiting trend this last week, but even there there's a lot of work to be done. I wanna see how Moorhead performs with Stevens this year before I jump into the Moorhead is awesome or fire Moorhead crowd.

[Tbonewannabe]

What makes you think Hill is going pro?

Mostly his Twitter. If you are a NFL RB it benefits you to go earlier since their is the smallest window for a career.

[Tbonewannabe]

I was a huge fan of nick turner. That's who the 7 on my handle was for. I've had this handle for a long time

Nick Turner was a tragedy. He definitely had the ability to make it in the NFL. Norwood and him were the most explosive backfield I have ever seen. Both guys were one carry away from a TD no matter where they were on the field.

[99jc]

Question for some here (and you know who you are):

Does it hurt more jumping off the bandwagon or jumping back on?

I never jumped off the MSU bandwagon. Even though I believe Moorhead was/is a bust hire. I spent more time and money following this team all over than you did I bet. If he comes back and becomes a good coach I will eat crow. All of you Moorhead backers said last season he needed his QB. Well he got his now let's see if his dynamic offense can produce. Barkley covered his ass at Penn State how this season unfolds remains to be seen.

[Bdawg]

What offer is he gonna get that he doesn't already have? Georgia is the only one I can think of.

Yeah but have the big ones really put any pressure on him? If his stock continues to rise, I just hope we don't have another Emory deal. We need a good RB to sign this year in a major way.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

What offer is he gonna get that he doesn't already have? Georgia is the only one I can think of.

Most of the blue bloods have other RBs on their board higher than Marks... they'll stay in contact and on good terms, then when one of them misses on their primary target there'll be pressure to OV and the bagmen come out and the BS about "Sure we have 2 5* RBs on roster already but you're so amazing you'll still play early blah blah blah". THAT'S what I worry about; a late full court press from a blue blood with a network we can't compete with.

Happy we got marks and odds are we still sign him, just saying we've had a lot of good players get taken from us at the last second because blue bloods missed on the guys higher on their board so I'll wait till he signs early to be excited

[Bdawg]

Most of the blue bloods have other RBs on their board higher than Marks... they'll stay in contact and on good terms, then when one of them misses on their primary target there'll be pressure to OV and the bagmen come out and the BS about "Sure we have 2 5* RBs on roster already but you're so amazing you'll still play early blah blah blah". THAT'S what I worry about; a late full court press from a blue blood with a network we can't compete with.

Happy we got marks and odds are we still sign him, just saying we've had a lot of good players get taken from us at the last second because blue bloods missed on the guys higher on their board so I'll wait till he signs early to be excited

My thought exactly. Hope we ink him

[Tbonewannabe]

Yeah but have the big ones really put any pressure on him? If his stock continues to rise, I just hope we don't have another Emory deal. We need a good RB to sign this year in a major way.

One thing was Emory never publicly committed did he? I know we were one of the front runners for a while but Marks is a step further at least.

[confucius say]

I never jumped off the MSU bandwagon. Even though I believe Moorhead was/is a bust hire. I spent more time and money following this team all over than you did I bet. If he comes back and becomes a good coach I will eat crow. All of you Moorhead backers said last season he needed his QB. Well he got his now let's see if his dynamic offense can produce. Barkley covered his ass at Penn State how this season unfolds remains to be seen.

Joes guy will be a true freshman this year. This narrative that TS is joes guy to run his system is intellectually dishonest. TS was at psu a year before joe was hired as OC. And he was coached by joe for less than two years, whereas KT has been coached by joe for 1.5 years.

[CadaverDawg]

Good pickup, let's hope we can hang on to him. Would be immediate impact.

[CadaverDawg]

Joes guy will be a true freshman this year. This narrative that TS is joes guy to run his system is intellectually dishonest. TS was at psu a year before joe was hired as OC. And he was coached by joe for less than two years, whereas KT has been coached by joe for 1.5 years.

Sounds like an excuse built in. So what, we have to give Joe 3-4 years before we can expect a competent offense? That sounds an awful lot like another guy I remember that was always saying "wait until we get ____".

So if we can't count a guy like Stevens that has had 3 years in a JoeMo offense, maybe it's not the QB....
https://i.imgflip.com/31g3yl.jpg

[99jc]

Sounds like an excuse built in. So what, we have to give Joe 3-4 years before we can expect a competent offense? That sounds an awful lot like another guy I remember that was always saying "wait until we get ____".

So if we can't count a guy like Stevens that has had 3 years in a JoeMo offense, maybe it's not the QB....
https://i.imgflip.com/31g3yl.jpg

You can't put facts out there like this it's too reasonable.

[confucius say]

Sounds like an excuse built in. So what, we have to give Joe 3-4 years before we can expect a competent offense? That sounds an awful lot like another guy I remember that was always saying "wait until we get ____".

So if we can't count a guy like Stevens that has had 3 years in a JoeMo offense, maybe it's not the QB....
https://i.imgflip.com/31g3yl.jpg

Honestly, it may be a built in excuse. I think it's probably all in one's perception of the situation. Those who believe in joe long term would see the situation as I do, and those who don't would see it as you do.

I do expect the offense to improve every year until Schroeder is the man though. If it doesn't, I'll be concerned like you.

[confucius say]

You can't put facts out there like this it's too reasonable.

What facts? He literally posed a question and then made a though provoking statement about how "maybe" it's the coach and not the qb.

Meanwhile, my post literally created a factual timeline about the timeframe of joe and TS being at penn st.

[Tbonewannabe]

Sounds like an excuse built in. So what, we have to give Joe 3-4 years before we can expect a competent offense? That sounds an awful lot like another guy I remember that was always saying "wait until we get ____".

So if we can't count a guy like Stevens that has had 3 years in a JoeMo offense, maybe it's not the QB....
https://i.imgflip.com/31g3yl.jpg

You obviously didn't read any of Prediction's statistics from the last 3 years if you are comparing last season with Croom. Fact is Moorhead's offense shit the bed in 4 games against great defenses. Mullen's offense shit the bed in 2 games against great defenses in 2017. It wasn't like our offense was some juggernaut and Moorhead came in and put it back into Croom level bad. Hell, Moorhead broke 600 yards of offense twice which was done like 4 times in MSU history prior to last year. And yes, it was done against Stephen F Austin and Louisiana but we have played those games before and not gotten that type of production.

Maybe everyone should come down off the ledge and just look at this season with a fresh set of eyes. If Moorhead can't make it happen with a QB who has been in his system for a while along with a team that is in its 2nd year of the offense then we start burning shit down.

[CadaverDawg]

Honestly, it may be a built in excuse. I think it's probably all in one's perception of the situation. Those who believe in joe long term would see the situation as I do, and those who don't would see it as you do.

I do expect the offense to improve every year until Schroeder is the man though. If it doesn't, I'll be concerned like you.

Fair enough. I want Joe to succeed, I just don't want to hear him Croomspeak in years he doesn't. Own it and improve...period. That's all most of us want. If you can't admit faults, what tells us you are trying to improve?

[CadaverDawg]

You obviously didn't read any of Prediction's statistics from the last 3 years if you are comparing last season with Croom. Fact is Moorhead's offense shit the bed in 4 games against great defenses. Mullen's offense shit the bed in 2 games against great defenses in 2017. It wasn't like our offense was some juggernaut and Moorhead came in and put it back into Croom level bad. Hell, Moorhead broke 600 yards of offense twice which was done like 4 times in MSU history prior to last year. And yes, it was done against Stephen F Austin and Louisiana but we have played those games before and not gotten that type of production.

Maybe everyone should come down off the ledge and just look at this season with a fresh set of eyes. If Moorhead can't make it happen with a QB who has been in his system for a while along with a team that is in its 2nd year of the offense then we start burning shit down.

Nobody is on the ledge. It's simply a fact that some of you are still trying to act like last year wasn't an underachievement. I'm not getting back into that for the sake of the board...but if you can't admit last year we underachieved, it's not worth discussing with you bc we'll never see eye to eye if you can't admit the obvious

[chef dixon]

I hope Huff feels less valuable now

[CadaverDawg]

I hope Huff feels less valuable now

Me too. Good point

[DancingRabbit]

Sounds like an excuse built in. So what, we have to give Joe 3-4 years before we can expect a competent offense? That sounds an awful lot like another guy I remember that was always saying "wait until we get ____".

So if we can't count a guy like Stevens that has had 3 years in a JoeMo offense, maybe it's not the QB....
https://i.imgflip.com/31g3yl.jpg

Haven't seen that pic. Seems like some ignorant shit to throw out on a 4* commitment post. Do you tweet? I hope not if that's your material.

[bulldawg28]

I was a huge fan of nick turner. That's who the 7 on my handle was for. I've had this handle for a long time

Nick the quick. I played with him. I nick named his quick6. We all called him quick for short.

[basedog]

Haven't seen that pic. Seems like some ignorant shit to throw out on a 4* commitment post. Do you tweet? I hope not if that's your material.

Totally agree

[BuckyIsAB****]

You've made this post in 2 different threads, Why? Who is the fire Moorhead crowd? Why has it been a tough few days, b/c we got a good RB commitment?

They know who they are. And all in the recruit thread, and just about every thread involving Moorhead its been how he cant recruit, cant coach, he talks in threes and he's gotten skinny because of all the stress.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I never jumped off the MSU bandwagon. Even though I believe Moorhead was/is a bust hire. I spent more time and money following this team all over than you did I bet. If he comes back and becomes a good coach I will eat crow. All of you Moorhead backers said last season he needed his QB. Well he got his now let's see if his dynamic offense can produce. Barkley covered his ass at Penn State how this season unfolds remains to be seen.

If you are a donor, great I know the school appreciates it BUT the amount of money and time you put into the team has absolutely 0 effect on Moorhead and I can promise you even if you went to every game your hours are nothing on Moorheads.

He didnt forget how to coach or recruit, Stevens was talented enough to get on the field with 2 Heisman hopefuls already in the backfield and now he is going to play for us. Combine that with an improved coaching staff, a strong defense and an easier schedule I'd say you have plenty of reasons to get on board

[CadaverDawg]

They know who they are. And all in the recruit thread, and just about every thread involving Moorhead its been how he cant recruit, cant coach, he talks in threes and he's gotten skinny because of all the stress.

Very few if any want to "fire Moorhead". Very many want him to improve the damn offense, meet or exceed expectations, and close on the recruits that will make his offense go. Marks is a great piece....IF Joe gets a signature. I hope he does.

[BayouDawg]

Very few if any want to "fire Moorhead". Very many want him to improve the damn offense, meet or exceed expectations, and close on the recruits that will make his offense go. Marks is a great piece....IF Joe gets a signature. I hope he does.

I can agree with this. I choose to believe Joe is not a complete idiot and will get it going. I have been wrong many times in my life though.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Very few if any want to "fire Moorhead". Very many want him to improve the damn offense, meet or exceed expectations, and close on the recruits that will make his offense go. Marks is a great piece....IF Joe gets a signature. I hope he does.

I can agree with that. But there are many on here that have already said ''He is done'', ''He will bring back the Croom era'', just to name 2

[Lord McBuckethead]

Cbs' way too early look at 2020 draft lists hill in top 100

I see what Hill could do, but the man hasn't yet.

[Bdawg]

One thing was Emory never publicly committed did he? I know we were one of the front runners for a while but Marks is a step further at least.

This is true and I stated the same in post #17. Glad we are a step farther, too. But until pen meets paper, I try not to get too excited about a "commitment". Not saying Marks is this way, but there are way to many kids outs there that don't know what commitment means. And there is always the possibility that they get an "offer they cant refuse."

[BhamDawg205]

Huh? I'm still very concerned with this hire. I do like the recruiting trend this last week, but even there there's a lot of work to be done. I wanna see how Moorhead performs with Stevens this year before I jump into the Moorhead is awesome or fire Moorhead crowd.

This!!! And to add more people want to see on the field performance. In game and halftime adjustments would get a lot of the "HEAT" off Mo and STAFF. Most know this staff has a motor for recruiting, but at the end of the day the talent has to be Coached to succeed.

[Ari Gold]

Some of you act like The 2017 team was an offensive juggernaut..
Fitz stats were just as good in 2018 if not better than 2017

Again for the 1000 time no one was happy with the end results last year 8-5 was For sure disappointing
But more disappointing is a coach quitting on his team with 3 more games to play and losing at home to a bad OM team

[StateDawg44]

Very few if any want to "fire Moorhead". Very many want him to improve the damn offense, meet or exceed expectations, and close on the recruits that will make his offense go. Marks is a great piece....IF Joe gets a signature. I hope he does.

Do you think the posters on here that "defend" or decide not to repetitively bash or call for Moorhead's head and talk about how bad some games got last year don't "want him to improve the damn offense, meet or exceed expectations, and close on the recruits that will make his offense go"?

[Tbonewannabe]

Some of you act like The 2017 team was an offensive juggernaut..
Fitz stats were just as good in 2018 if not better than 2017

Again for the 1000 time no one was happy with the end results last year 8-5 was For sure disappointing
But more disappointing is a coach quitting on his team with 3 more games to play and losing at home to a bad OM team

You would think there would be more pissed off people about this but apparently we missed our one chance at a National Title last year because Mullen left. All these people talking about 11 win seasons don't take into consideration the team shitting the bed after a Bama loss and Mullen phoning it in while job hunting.

Does anyone remember that we were an interception in the endzone against a shitty Arkansas team in 2014 from not winning 10 games with a 17ing NFL QB? Mullen is great when he is coaching with his hair on fire. It happened basically one time after the 2010 season and that was in 2014 and we still shit the bed against a UM team with a one legged QB.

[msstate7]

Now you can almost wins for Moorhead as wins and almost losses for Mullen as losses

ETA... (rank at time of game) ark 2014 lost to #6 aTm 35-28 in ot, lost to #7 Bama 14-13, lost to #10 Georgia 45-32, lost to #1 state 17-10, beat #20 LSU 17-0, beat #8 om 30-0, and lost to #17 mizzou 21-14. That ark team was pretty good

[Tbonewannabe]

Now you can almost wins for Moorhead as wins and almost losses for Mullen as losses

ETA... (rank at time of game) ark 2014 lost to #6 aTm 35-28 in ot, lost to #7 Bama 14-13, lost to #10 Georgia 45-32, lost to #1 state 17-10, beat #20 LSU 17-0, beat #8 om 30-0, and lost to #17 mizzou 21-14. That ark team was pretty good

I let the current shitty Ark team affect my thoughts on that team, sorry. It still doesn't let Mullen off the hook for losing to UM 2 years in a row with Dak at QB. That 2014 game, Bo was literally hopping around the damn field. We also still had an outside shot at a Playoff game at that time but of course there were rumors that Mullen had been on a damn job interview the week of the game.

[msstate7]

I let the current shitty Ark team affect my thoughts on that team, sorry. It still doesn't let Mullen off the hook for losing to UM 2 years in a row with Dak at QB. That 2014 game, Bo was literally hopping around the damn field. We also still had an outside shot at a Playoff game at that time but of course there were rumors that Mullen had been on a damn job interview the week of the game.

Should've won that om game

[Johnson85]

I can agree with that. But there are many on here that have already said ''He is done'', ''He will bring back the Croom era'', just to name 2

Yup. It's like people have forgotten that Croom's offense sucked against teams we vastly outmanned from a talent perspective.

I was very disturbed by the bed shitting in the UK game where we just absolutely refused to make an adjustment while a good player destroyed us for three quarters. I'm still concerned about that. But unless he absolutely tanks at recruiting, our floor is pretty much a poor man's mullen at this point, with Joe wracking up 6 wins each season by beating up OOC and weak SEC teams and then occasionally getting up to 8 wins when the schedule is favorable. And that's assuming that his offense just won't work against good SEC defenses. We are going to be somewhere between ok and great with this hire.

I am expecting that we end up between pretty good and really good. I don't think he will be able to get the type of WRs we need on campus to compete against elite defenses, and I'm not sure his offense has a good way to address an elite pass rusher that outclasses one of the OTs (which will happen in the SEC at least a couple of games usually), but I think just upgrading to average SEC quality WRs will allow us to do well against mid tier SEC teams and get us winning 7-8 games a year with occasional upside surprises.

[Tbonewannabe]

Should've won that om game

Should have won 2014 and 2015. I give Mullen a pass on 2017 with Fitz injury, it was a lot to throw KT into the game at that point even though our defense should have been able to stop them. That was the one thing about Grantham's defense, it was either really good or mediocre. We were also liable to give up a big play like against Bama at any moment. That is one reason that you couldn't expect a #1 Defense this year without Shoop. Shoop improved our secondary by a wide margin which is where our real improvement came.

[Tbonewannabe]

Yup. It's like people have forgotten that Croom's offense sucked against teams we vastly outmanned from a talent perspective.

I was very disturbed by the bed shitting in the UK game where we just absolutely refused to make an adjustment while a good player destroyed us for three quarters. I'm still concerned about that. But unless he absolutely tanks at recruiting, our floor is pretty much a poor man's mullen at this point, with Joe wracking up 6 wins each season by beating up OOC and weak SEC teams and then occasionally getting up to 8 wins when the schedule is favorable. And that's assuming that his offense just won't work against good SEC defenses. We are going to be somewhere between ok and great with this hire.

I am expecting that we end up between pretty good and really good. I don't think he will be able to get the type of WRs we need on campus to compete against elite defenses, and I'm not sure his offense has a good way to address an elite pass rusher that outclasses one of the OTs (which will happen in the SEC at least a couple of games usually), but I think just upgrading to average SEC quality WRs will allow us to do well against mid tier SEC teams and get us winning 7-8 games a year with occasional upside surprises.

And that is exactly what Mullen got us too. Mullen shit the bed almost every time we played a great team and somehow gets A LOT of credit for hanging with a Bama team in 2017 that had a good amount of injuries to their starters. Now I will say that those 4 games that Moorhead dropped is a red flag but hopefully he overcomes it like most good 2nd year SEC coaches do.

[Johnson85]

And that is exactly what Mullen got us too. Mullen shit the bed almost every time we played a great team and somehow gets A LOT of credit for hanging with a Bama team in 2017 that had a good amount of injuries to their starters. Now I will say that those 4 games that Moorhead dropped is a red flag but hopefully he overcomes it like most good 2nd year SEC coaches do.

I don't think all four of those games are a red flag. It's just about impossible to be serviceable on offense against an elite defense when you have zero SEC receivers and a QB that has limited passing ability.

I think Bama and probably LSU were just a repeat of the Auburn and UGA games from last year. UK and Florida are red flags. He let one player kill us against UK b/c of not making adjustments, and then still came out unprepared the next week against Florida.

[msstate7]

Should have won 2014 and 2015. I give Mullen a pass on 2017 with Fitz injury, it was a lot to throw KT into the game at that point even though our defense should have been able to stop them. That was the one thing about Grantham's defense, it was either really good or mediocre. We were also liable to give up a big play like against Bama at any moment. That is one reason that you couldn't expect a #1 Defense this year without Shoop. Shoop improved our secondary by a wide margin which is where our real improvement came.

They were better than us in 2015, period.

[StateDawg44]

Yup. It's like people have forgotten that Croom's offense sucked against teams we vastly outmanned from a talent perspective.

I was very disturbed by the bed shitting in the UK game where we just absolutely refused to make an adjustment while a good player destroyed us for three quarters. I'm still concerned about that. But unless he absolutely tanks at recruiting, our floor is pretty much a poor man's mullen at this point, with Joe wracking up 6 wins each season by beating up OOC and weak SEC teams and then occasionally getting up to 8 wins when the schedule is favorable. And that's assuming that his offense just won't work against good SEC defenses. We are going to be somewhere between ok and great with this hire.

I am expecting that we end up between pretty good and really good. I don't think he will be able to get the type of WRs we need on campus to compete against elite defenses, and I'm not sure his offense has a good way to address an elite pass rusher that outclasses one of the OTs (which will happen in the SEC at least a couple of games usually), but I think just upgrading to average SEC quality WRs will allow us to do well against mid tier SEC teams and get us winning 7-8 games a year with occasional upside surprises.

So upgrading our WR corp. should yield the same results we've been getting with a lackluster WR corp.?

[BayouDawg]

They were better than us in 2015, period.

I agree with this. They were better in 2015. We were better in 2012, 2014 and 2017.

[Johnson85]

So upgrading our WR corp. should yield the same results we've been getting with a lackluster WR corp.?

If we're lucky. You may not have noticed, but we had one of if not the best defenses in the nation this past year and three first rounders drafted. The year before that, we had a good defense and what turned out to be the SEC's all time leading rushing QB along with a solid Oline and an offense that helped mitigate his weaknesses other than against elite defenses. The year before that, we won 5 games with a better WR corps than we had last year.

[StateDawg44]

If we're lucky. You may not have noticed, but we had one of if not the best defenses in the nation this past year and three first rounders drafted. The year before that, we had a good defense and what turned out to be the SEC's all time leading rushing QB along with a solid Oline and an offense that helped mitigate his weaknesses other than against elite defenses. The year before that, we won 5 games with a better WR corps than we had last year.

Yeah... I noticed. But since nowhere in your original post I quoted did you mention anything about the defense, I'm not sure how that fits into the conversation about how improving WR's corp. doesn't correlate with at the very least keeping our same results as most previous years with Mullen. If not earning an extra win here and there to make it 9-10. Slightly improved WR's this year would've done just that in 2018. Even with Fitz.

[thf24]

I don't think it's possible to accurately judge the quality of our WR group under Fitz. Yes, there have been some notable, pretty bad individual breakdowns, but those might not have hurt so much with a larger sample size of remotely catchable passes. Our guys aren't world beaters by any means, but I think it's very possible they look night and day better under a QB who checks just two of three boxes out of delivering the ball accurately, on time, and with the right touch on the majority of his attempts. That hasn't been the case the past three seasons.

[msstate7]

I don't think it's possible to accurately judge the quality of our WR group under Fitz. Yes, there have been some notable, pretty bad individual breakdowns, but those might not have hurt so much with a larger sample size of remotely catchable passes. Our guys aren't world beaters by any means, but I think it's very possible they look night and day better under a QB who checks just two of three boxes out of delivering the ball accurately, on time, and with the right touch on the majority of his attempts. That hasn't been the case the past three seasons.

The drops continued in spring game

[thf24]

The drops continued in spring game

1. Spring game. 2. Our overwhelmingly likely starting QB wasn't there. If they're getting consistently good passes from Stevens once the season starts and still dropping 1/3 of them, then we can draw a strong conclusion.

[Johnson85]

Yeah... I noticed. But since nowhere in your original post I quoted did you mention anything about the defense, I'm not sure how that fits into the conversation about how improving WR's corp. doesn't correlate with at the very least keeping our same results as most previous years with Mullen. If not earning an extra win here and there to make it 9-10. Slightly improved WR's this year would've done just that in 2018. Even with Fitz.

I expected posters here to have some familiarity with our teams and past results. But if it helps, I was expecting posters to be aware that:

- we're probably not going to consistently have number 1 rated defenses, and even the 2017 level defense won't be an every year occurrence.
- Moorhead's offense, which relies on making people pay for manning up outside WRs, is not as good at managing with mediocre WRs as Mullen's power spread offense.

[RezDog7]

I never jumped off the MSU bandwagon. Even though I believe Moorhead was/is a bust hire. I spent more time and money following this team all over than you did I bet. If he comes back and becomes a good coach I will eat crow. All of you Moorhead backers said last season he needed his QB. Well he got his now let's see if his dynamic offense can produce. Barkley covered his ass at Penn State how this season unfolds remains to be seen.

One player doesn't dictate how good an offense is, especially the running back.

[StateDawg44]

I expected posters here to have some familiarity with our teams and past results. But if it helps, I was expecting posters to be aware that:

- we're probably not going to consistently have number 1 rated defenses, and even the 2017 level defense won't be an every year occurrence.
- Moorhead's offense, which relies on making people pay for manning up outside WRs, is not as good at managing with mediocre WRs as Mullen's power spread offense.

Here is the explanation I was looking for from you. ^^

The rest still has absolutely nothing to do with the particular position I was asking about. No need in pompously trying to explain defense also plays a role in how good the overall team is. That's obvious. But thanks?

[Really Clark?]

I don't think it's possible to accurately judge the quality of our WR group under Fitz. Yes, there have been some notable, pretty bad individual breakdowns, but those might not have hurt so much with a larger sample size of remotely catchable passes. Our guys aren't world beaters by any means, but I think it's very possible they look night and day better under a QB who checks just two of three boxes out of delivering the ball accurately, on time, and with the right touch on the majority of his attempts. That hasn't been the case the past three seasons.

The WR group had the worse catch percentage in the league from catchable passes. If they were just league average, Fitz completion percentage is over 60%

[BuckyIsAB****]

Some of you act like The 2017 team was an offensive juggernaut..
Fitz stats were just as good in 2018 if not better than 2017

Again for the 1000 time no one was happy with the end results last year 8-5 was For sure disappointing
But more disappointing is a coach quitting on his team with 3 more games to play and losing at home to a bad OM team

And he did that every year since 2015

[BuckyIsAB****]

They were better than us in 2015, period.

They werent as much better as we made them look

[Johnson85]

And he did that every year since 2015

That's not fair to Mullen. In 2016, he took off the three games beginning the season.**

[thf24]

The WR group had the worse catch percentage in the league from catchable passes. If they were just league average, Fitz completion percentage is over 60%

What factors go into deeming a pass "catchable," and how does Fitz compare to other SEC's QB's in number of so-called "catchable" passes?

[msstate7]

They werent as much better as we made them look

When fitz makes bad passes or WRs drop balls under Moorhead, it's on them. When players under Mullen fumble or throw INTs, it's on Mullen.

[Really Clark?]

What factors go into deeming a pass "catchable," and how does Fitz compare to other SEC's QB's in number of so-called "catchable" passes?

It’s just a stat complied by more advanced measurement. What’s determine as a catchable pass is the same for every team and QB. An inaccurate throw is not computed. Like how an OL group has stats as a whole unit and compared to their peers. Our WR’s was the worse in the SEC in drops last year. It’s been the bottom of the league for a while actually.

[StateDawg44]

When fitz makes bad passes or WRs drop balls under Moorhead, it's on them. When players under Mullen fumble or throw INTs, it's on Mullen.

Those aren't even remotely the same things so how are you trying to compare them?

[thf24]

It?s just a stat complied by more advanced measurement. What?s determine as a catchable pass is the same for every team and QB. An inaccurate throw is not computed. Like how an OL group has stats as a whole unit and compared to their peers. Our WR?s was the worse in the SEC in drops last year. It?s been the bottom of the league for a while actually.

Regardless of what goes into it, there's got to be some degree of subjectivity because what's "catchable" or a spectrum of such isn't the same for every player, and the importance of the individual factors in deeming a pass "catchable" could also vary from player to player.

I know I'm drifting into semantics, so all I'm trying to say is due to all the more or less abnormal circumstances surrounding our passing game the last 2-3 years, I don't think it's possible to say with certainty that our WR group is inadequate. No one's saying they're world beaters who have been held completely in check at the mercy of a bad QB, but I think we need to wait and see how they do with an average or better passer before writing them off as an insurmountable problem.

[Really Clark?]

Regardless of what goes into it, there's got to be some degree of subjectivity because what's "catchable" or a spectrum of such isn't the same for every player, and the importance of the individual factors in deeming a pass "catchable" could also vary from player to player.

I know I'm drifting into semantics, so all I'm trying to say is due to all the more or less abnormal circumstances surrounding our passing game the last 2-3 years, I don't think it's possible to say with certainty that our WR group is inadequate. No one's saying they're world beaters who have been held in check at the mercy of a bad QB, but I think we need to wait and see how they do with an average or better passer before writing them off as an insurmountable problem.

They adjust the measurable catch radius for the individual WR. It’s not just solely a “if it hits the WR hands it’s catchable ball stat”. So it tries remove as much subjectivity in it as possible so you are dealing with a pure number, as well. And when that standard is applied across the board to all teams, QB’s and WR’s, then it’s a sound stat. When you eliminate the QB inaccurate passes and deal with pure drops, we were very bad.

[thf24]

They adjust the measurable catch radius for the individual WR. It’s not just solely a “if it hits the WR hands it’s catchable ball stat”. So it tries remove as much subjectivity in it as possible so you are dealing with a pure number, as well. And when that standard is applied across the board to all teams, QB’s and WR’s, then it’s a sound stat. When you eliminate the QB inaccurate passes and deal with pure drops, we were very bad.

Can you link to this stat? Not doubting you, just curious about what goes into it.

[Really Clark?]

Can you link to this stat? Not doubting you, just curious about what goes into it.

Pro Football Focus gives a lot of these type stats but it’s under premium subscription. College Film room did the drop percentage during the season and had Guidry as 3rd worse in the league after the season at over 20% drops. But I can’t think of a site that will give you the exact formula or breakdown free. Of course we chart these stats inside the program (like most schools) also

[BayouDawg]

When fitz makes bad passes or WRs drop balls under Moorhead, it's on them. When players under Mullen fumble or throw INTs, it's on Mullen.

You seem like a cool guy and I usually like your posts... but youve got to quit sniffing Dans thong and move on man. He left us. We didnt leave him.

[msstate7]

You seem like a cool guy and I usually like your posts... but youve got to quit sniffing Dans thong and move on man. He left us. We didnt leave him.

Cool guys don't sniff Mullen's thong

[BayouDawg]

Cool guys don't sniff Mullen's thong

I admit I may have used the word cool quite loosely... lol just messin.

[Todd4State]

When fitz makes bad passes or WRs drop balls under Moorhead, it's on them. When players under Mullen fumble or throw INTs, it's on Mullen.

It's on Mullen for allowing his country club to slack off on recruiting players that suck at catching the ball.

[sandwolf]

Should have won 2014 and 2015.

Definitely should've beat them in 2014, but they were just flat out better than we were in 2015.

[BuckyIsAB****]

When fitz makes bad passes or WRs drop balls under Moorhead, it's on them. When players under Mullen fumble or throw INTs, it's on Mullen.

When we have to play Rufus Warren at LT its pretty much on Mullen