Softball heading to the regional finals against Washington

[MetEdDawg]

Coming out of the losers bracket so have to win 2 against the #3 overall seed. Gonna be a tough task for sure. But not a bad showing so far.

Washington is very good so I'll be interested to see if we can find a way to push it to the second game tomorrow

[Cooterpoot]

We did the same thing last year. Washington will handle us. We have no pitching and they have two studs. Bottom line is we can’t finish so poorly in league play and hope to advance beyond a regional. Vann gets another year but I don’t really know why. She’s been slightly better than Jay Miller was, but that’s all you can say.

[timotheus]

Will the incoming pitcher from neshoba central make a difference immediately?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We did the same thing last year. Washington will handle us. We have no pitching and they have two studs. Bottom line is we can?t finish so poorly in league play and hope to advance beyond a regional. Vann gets another year but I don?t really know why. She?s been slightly better than Jay Miller was, but that?s all you can say.

Van gets another year because the team is decent. Really though shes consistently making the tournament and our hitting is solid.

Softball is different than baseball. Softball nobody leaves early and a single dominant pitcher will completely change your program for 4 years. We dont have that pitcher. But all the other pieces are there, so if we find one we'll immediately compete for CWS trips.

Now, if we had dominant pitching but bad hitting I'd be more worried. Because in that case, Van would be missing on the vast majority of our commits. But because shes hitting on the O side of recruiting I say give her more time to get 1 stud pitcher to come here.

The end results (loosing in regionals) may look mediocre, but we're actually very close to being a host team

[Cooterpoot]

1. Yes. Wesley will contribute next year.
2. Making the tournament is pretty meaningless. Every coach we’ve had has done it. Every SEC team made it this year.
3. Vann is a pitching coach and has failed at recruiting top line pitching.
4. OM was hosted and been to a super in half the time Vann has been here.

My guess is she has two years to do more or she’s gone. 10 years with no super is bad. I’m sorry, we can do better. Name all the SEC teams to never make a super. Because there’s only one.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

1. Yes. Wesley will contribute next year.
2. Making the tournament is pretty meaningless. Every coach we’ve had has done it. Every SEC tram made it this year.
3. Vann is a pitching coach and has failed at recruiting top line pitching.
4. OM was hosted and been to a super in half the time Vann has been here.

My guess is she has two years to do more or she’s gone. 10 years with no super is bad. I’m sorry, we can do better. Name all the SEC teams to never make a super.

Your 2 and 4 are comparing us to other SEC teams, I prefer to look at our program itself rather than go chasing tails of other SEC teams and winding up worse. It's like OM in baseball- if they fore Bianco it's because of his relative lack of success compared to the rest of the conference, but if they fire him theres a 90% chance it turns out bad for them.

Regarding 3), I literally could not care less that Van is a pitching coach. I look at the total picture, and the total picture is that we have good hitting and mediocre pitching. If we had elite pitching and a bad O you'd say "Van is a good pitching coach but it's clear she has no idea how to make an O work, shes gotta go".

Name me a coach that would do better. I dont care what the rest of the SEC is doing I care about our program, and the fact is that 1) there's no sure thing as far as a coaching replacement, and 2) we're 1 player away from being really good

[Cooterpoot]

And you’re comparing baseball and softball..lol. The fact is, we can’t get a half decent draw finishing 12th in the SEC.
You previously mentioned us not having an elite pitcher. Vann is directly responsible for that. We’ve never had elite pitching under a coach who is a pitching coach. There are a number of assistant coaches I’d take in a heartbeat. He’ll, I’d hire Loteif if he wanted it, even with his baggage. Our softball program is bottom of the conference. If that doesn’t bother you, then you obviously don’t see that all 16 top seeds are still alive and all but two are undefeated. You have to host and or be a higher seed. You can’t advance going out west every year.

[Cooterpoot]

I will say again, we are the ONLY SEC school to never advance past a regional. Jesus, even USM had a CWS team before softball blew up. We’ve settled for less long enough. If Vann can’t advance the program in a decade, we need change.

[Dawg2003]

I don't think we can do much worse than Vann. We've finished last or second to last in the SEC, so we can't do worse there. She gets us to the tournament, but it's really easy to get to the tournament if you play in the SEC. Everyone got in this year, so it's not exactly special to have a coach that can get us in. We need to find someone who can get us to the point of hosting because that would make our path to a Super easier.

[AROB44]

Sure am glad we can complain about softball (a very minor sport). If there wasn't something to complain about, this board would invent something.

[Dawg2003]

Sure am glad we can complain about softball (a very minor sport). If there wasn't something to complain about, this board would invent something.

Yes, just like you are complaining about people simply having a reasonable discussion.

[ScottH]

The team is out of shape compared to the other teams I have seen in the tournament.

[confucius say]

I will say again, we are the ONLY SEC school to never advance past a regional. Jesus, even USM had a CWS team before softball blew up. We’ve settled for less long enough. If Vann can’t advance the program in a decade, we need change.

I'm not a softball expert, but I would say she has advanced the program the last decade. I think we've been to a regional 7 of the last 8 years right? Pretty sure we've never done that before vann

[Quaoarsking]

I'm not a softball expert, but I would say she has advanced the program the last decade. I think we've been to a regional 7 of the last 8 years right? Pretty sure we've never done that before vann

Previous coaches:

Lynn Kesier - 0 tournaments in 2 years
Vivan Langley - 0 tournaments in 3 years
Kathy Arendsen - 2 tournaments in 6 years
Jay Miller - 6 tournaments in 9 years
Vann Stuedeman - 7 tournaments in 8 years

It should be remembered that Miller was also head coach of the US National Team, so it's safe to say he's a great coach. The Tournament has had 64 teams since Miller's first year, so it is an apples-to-apples comparison with him and Vann, but not really with the earlier coaches. Neither Miller nor Vann has ever had an SEC record above .500.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Previous coaches:

Lynn Kesier - 0 tournaments in 2 years
Vivan Langley - 0 tournaments in 3 years
Kathy Arendsen - 2 tournaments in 6 years
Jay Miller - 6 tournaments in 9 years
Vann Stuedeman - 7 tournaments in 8 years

It should be remembered that Miller was also head coach of the US National Team, so it's safe to say he's a great coach. The Tournament has had 64 teams since Miller's first year, so it is an apples-to-apples comparison with him and Vann, but not really with the earlier coaches. Neither Miller nor Vann has ever had an SEC record above .500.

Thank you for some basic facts. And again, whether or not Van can get that elite pitcher to get us to the next level, that's all she needs. It seems very unlikely the program will tank under her so there's n reason not to give her more time.

Again, everyone here is comparing us to the rest of the SEC. That's what OM did when they hired Freezus and went all in on the cheating. That's what OM is doing when they want Bianco fired. Te SEC is really really tough in softball so it's better to look at where we are as a program than in the standings. For example if we were the 14th best team in the country but all the other teams were above us were SEC, would anyone want Van fired for being the worst team in the conference? I'd hope not, as 14th means the program is really good.

yet all through this thread is people citing our conference record rather than the quality of play on the field

[Dawg2003]

The team is out of shape compared to the other teams I have seen in the tournament.

Now that's true. We have some ladies on the larger side.

[Dawg2003]

Vann won't get better. You tend to be what you are around year 5. After that, coaches don't usually make big jumps.

[Tbonewannabe]

Your 2 and 4 are comparing us to other SEC teams, I prefer to look at our program itself rather than go chasing tails of other SEC teams and winding up worse. It's like OM in baseball- if they fore Bianco it's because of his relative lack of success compared to the rest of the conference, but if they fire him theres a 90% chance it turns out bad for them.

Regarding 3), I literally could not care less that Van is a pitching coach. I look at the total picture, and the total picture is that we have good hitting and mediocre pitching. If we had elite pitching and a bad O you'd say "Van is a good pitching coach but it's clear she has no idea how to make an O work, shes gotta go".

Name me a coach that would do better. I dont care what the rest of the SEC is doing I care about our program, and the fact is that 1) there's no sure thing as far as a coaching replacement, and 2) we're 1 player away from being really good

He is comparing Ole Miss because we have historically been the better program. They made their first Regional in 2016 and their only Super Regional in 2017. This will be their 2nd Regional to host while we have never made a Super Regional even though this is our 15th time in a Regional. We invested in our facilities and are mostly on par with anyone in the SEC but are consistently at the bottom of the conference. Van is basically treading water and she was supposed to be the pitching guru from Bama but our pitchers are typically mediocre at best. This is only the 2nd time she has even played in the Regional championship game.

I think the guy coming in and making UM actually better might be the kickstart that our program needs. You either settle for mediocre or put a fire under Van to do better or else.

Edited to add: I guarantee that if Moorhead is just winning 7-8 games every year but doing it with defense and a shitty offense then he doesn't get as much time as Van.

[Quaoarsking]

Vann won't get better. You tend to be what you are around year 5. After that, coaches don't usually make big jumps.

Based on what? Just off the top of my head, Pat Casey took a lot longer than 5 years to get Oregon State going.

[Really Clark?]

Now that's true. We have some ladies on the larger side.


A lot of schools do. You will see many in the World Series that can flat play. They are not men and don’t have men body types and a girl 5’5” could be 175 and athletic with wide hips because how they are made. Fa and Nu are about 6’ so look leaner than some of the other girls. But are big girls. Bama and OK have and have had many big girls who are elite. Especially pitchers and corner infielders

[Tbonewannabe]

A lot of schools do. You will see many in the World Series that can flat play. They are not men and don’t have men body types and a girl 5’5” could be 175 and athletic with wide hips because how they are made. Fa and Nu are about 6’ so look leaner than some of the other girls. But are big girls. Bama and OK have and have had many big girls who are elite. Especially pitchers and corner infielders

Not saying anything negative about it because the bigger girls are mostly our better players but in this day and age with college athletics, it is kind of surprising that there are any bigger athletes. As much as they practice and now have all the nutritional help, it is kind of odd that they aren't in "better shape". Saying that, I am a fatass that any of those athletes would run circles around. Also some people are just naturally bigger like that and it takes a lot of work to be a different size.

Just looking at our Oline, you don't see big guts on guys anymore.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

He is comparing Ole Miss because we have historically been the better program. They made their first Regional in 2016 and their only Super Regional in 2017. This will be their 2nd Regional to host while we have never made a Super Regional even though this is our 15th time in a Regional. We invested in our facilities and are mostly on par with anyone in the SEC but are consistently at the bottom of the conference. Van is basically treading water and she was supposed to be the pitching guru from Bama but our pitchers are typically mediocre at best. This is only the 2nd time she has even played in the Regional championship game.

I think the guy coming in and making UM actually better might be the kickstart that our program needs. You either settle for mediocre or put a fire under Van to do better or else.

Edited to add: I guarantee that if Moorhead is just winning 7-8 games every year but doing it with defense and a shitty offense then he doesn't get as much time as Van.

I'm not saying settle for mediocrity. As I've stated before we're 1 pitcher away; all the other pieces are there.

And again, I don't care that Van is a pitching coach. She's the HC, I evaluate her performance based on the total team quality. We have good hitting and bad pitching, that's the same to me as good pitching and bad hitting. No, it's actually better since good hitting takes more competence than good pitching since you have to get 9 hitters vs only 2-3 pitcher up to par so that's an easier fix.

And once again, there's a lot of comparing us to other SEC teams

Look, if there's a better coach I have no problems replacing Van. But I fear we're going to end up worse. If there's a low % chance than Van can get a top flight P to come here, let her go. If there is a chance though, then the odds of a new coach being able to do that while also keeping the O decent would need to be higher for making a change to make sense

[MetEdDawg]

Vann has the #7 recruiting class right now for 2019. It took us a while to establish ourselves because of how far and long we've been behind everyone else.

This was not a job set up for success. It's actually not that dissimilar to what Mullen went through. We have the stadium now and Vann is recruiting now. I think she can make it happen. We are just now being able to reap the rewards of the work and consistency we've put in.

[Dawg2003]

Based on what? Just off the top of my head, Pat Casey took a lot longer than 5 years to get Oregon State going.

That's very much an outlier.

[BulldogBear]

What does ESPN have against our team?

My streaming is sheit. Okay, I just sat through the last 2 innings of the game that would not end, TX-Hou. I figured they would switch to ours. No, they switch to an 8-0 game.

When I looked at schedule earlier, ours was the only one to be on air at this time. Delays I guess.

[BulldogBear]

What does ESPN have against our team?

My streaming is sheit. Okay, I just sat through the last 2 innings of the game that would not end, TX-Hou. I figured they would switch to ours. No, they switch to an 8-0 game.

When I looked at schedule earlier, ours was the only one to be on air at this time. Delays I guess.

And now it is not even on the 17ing ESPN app

[Cooterpoot]

1. All the pieces other than a pitcher aren?t here.
2. Softball recruiting rankings are fake news.
3. Meanwhile, while our fans think we?re ok, OM is playing in their 2nd super in 3 years.

[Dawg2003]

How much time does Vann get to make a super regional? At some point, it seems like we'd want to elevate our program. I still say it would be really hard to do worse than Vann, so there's not much of a risk in trying someone new.

[confucius say]

How much time does Vann get to make a super regional? At some point, it seems like we'd want to elevate our program. I still say it would be really hard to do worse than Vann, so there's not much of a risk in trying someone new.

Isn't she the most successful coach in our program's history? No dang way we are firing her right now

Not much of a risk? Sounds like the Stans fiasco all over again, minus the off the court drama

[civildawg]

The problem for vann is that ole miss has shown it can be done. I mean we can?t do too much worse than her, she?s been at the bottom of the sec every year she?s been here. She seems like a great person but I feel like she?s more of a cheerleader than a coach

[Dawg2003]

Isn't she the most successful coach in our program's history? No dang way we are firing her right now

Not much of a risk? Sounds like the Stans fiasco all over again, minus the off the court drama

I didn't suggest firing her right now. I asked how long she gets.

The only way we get worse is to win no SEC games, which I guess is possible. Other than that, what are we gonna do? Instead of winning 1 SEC Tournament game, we win none?

[Leeshouldveflanked]

When Ole Miss leaves any MSU program in the dust like they have MSU Fastpitch.... Vann has to go...

[Tbonewannabe]

1. All the pieces other than a pitcher aren?t here.
2. Softball recruiting rankings are fake news.
3. Meanwhile, while our fans think we?re ok, OM is playing in their 2nd super in 3 years.

Also we had been in like 12 regionals before UM even went to 1. We also have better facilities than they do. UM has a better coach and recruiter.

[Really Clark?]

Also we had been in like 12 regionals before UM even went to 1. We also have better facilities than they do. UM has a better coach and recruiter.

He better be a good recruiter because he runs off so many players with his attitude. And it sucked long before he got to UNM. As far as better coaching, he is good with some parts and the girls get hotter in regionals but he lacks in other aspects and they get in bad slumps and up and down from year to year. Don’t like some of what he teaches.

[Tbonewannabe]

He better be a good recruiter because he runs off so many players with his attitude. And it sucked long before he got to UNM. As far as better coaching, he is good with some parts and the girls get hotter in regionals but he lacks in other aspects and they get in bad slumps and up and down from year to year. Don’t like some of what he teaches.

I don't know anything about him except he has UM going in the right direction.

[Really Clark?]

The problem for vann is that ole miss has shown it can be done. I mean we can?t do too much worse than her, she?s been at the bottom of the sec every year she?s been here. She seems like a great person but I feel like she?s more of a cheerleader than a coach

Yes we can do much worse. I wouldn’t have a problem making change, fine with it for a few years actually. The problem is it’s hard to find the sure thing. Many successful coaches from small programs flop in this conference. Hiring the hot assistant is also a crap shot. I can come up with a good list but no guarantee that they would even consider coming here to butt heads with this league. The difference between nearly last and Top 5 in our league is usually a 3-4 game swing. Again I also keep coming back to this, until our administration wants more and determine just getting to regionals is not enough, this is what we will be and what we have been for a long time now.

[Really Clark?]

I don't know anything about him except he has UM going in the right direction.

Eh, until this season (even including over pitching Lee 2 years ago to get to a super, they got hot) they have been basically the same as us finishing 10th, 12th, 9th, 12th and 5th in conference standings. We have finished 9th, 12th, 8th, 11th, and 12th in league the last 5 years. Other than this season we’ve been basically the same teams during the regular season and finished higher in the standings 3 of the last 5.

[Cooterpoot]

I’m willing to take the chance on another coach. Vann really hasn’t done anything the previous coaches didn’t do. We can do better. We’re the worst program in the league.

[Cooterpoot]

Isn't she the most successful coach in our program's history? No dang way we are firing her right now

Not much of a risk? Sounds like the Stans fiasco all over again, minus the off the court drama

She’s been no more successful than our previous coaches.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

She’s been no more successful than our previous coaches.

^^^This^^^ Her average finish at MSU is 10th out of 13 teams, with her best season being her first.

[Tbonewannabe]

And all the talking about our hitting and we got no hit tonight to lose again in the Regional championship. At least we made it to the final game, we haven't done that very often.

[Really Clark?]

And all the talking about our hitting and we got no hit tonight to lose again in the Regional championship. At least we made it to the final game, we haven't done that very often.

It was against one of the best pitchers in the country and the #3 National seed who had 2 players, including that pitcher, as national player of the year finalists Top 26. Mia is still in the Top 10 finalists for national player of the year for us. But it’s not like that pitcher wasn’t elite

[confucius say]

She’s been no more successful than our previous coaches.

Got ya. I didn't realize we were an annual tourney team before her, of course I've never paid much attention to softball

[Tbonewannabe]

It was against one of the best pitchers in the country and the #3 National seed who had 2 players, including that pitcher, as national player of the year finalists Top 26. Mia is still in the Top 10 finalists for national player of the year for us. But it’s not like that pitcher wasn’t elite

Yes, I understand that there was a reason Washington was the #3 seed. I would have liked to at least put a scare into them instead of just getting dominated. It really feels like Van is a shitty version of Stans. Stans kept us in the top of a bad SEC league and always shit the bed in the tourney. I understand the hesitation to fire Vann because what happens if we hire Rick Ray. SEC softball is more dominant that baseball so it would take a great coach to get any movement upward in the league. I would like to actually compete in the tourney if we say the SEC is that tough. UM has found a guy that has taken them to multiple Super Regionals now but maybe it is built on a house of cards.

I don't follow softball close enough to know if we could realistically get an upgrade at head coach but it seems like most of the SEC is having more success than we are. If nothing else, Vann needs to look at why we seem to be lagging in the tourney. Is it purely from the fact that we always get sent to a National Seed or is it we are lacking in recruiting that elite pitcher?

[Really Clark?]

Yes, I understand that there was a reason Washington was the #3 seed. I would have liked to at least put a scare into them instead of just getting dominated. It really feels like Van is a shitty version of Stans. Stans kept us in the top of a bad SEC league and always shit the bed in the tourney. I understand the hesitation to fire Vann because what happens if we hire Rick Ray. SEC softball is more dominant that baseball so it would take a great coach to get any movement upward in the league. I would like to actually compete in the tourney if we say the SEC is that tough. UM has found a guy that has taken them to multiple Super Regionals now but maybe it is built on a house of cards.

I don't follow softball close enough to know if we could realistically get an upgrade at head coach but it seems like most of the SEC is having more success than we are. If nothing else, Vann needs to look at why we seem to be lagging in the tourney. Is it purely from the fact that we always get sent to a National Seed or is it we are lacking in recruiting that elite pitcher?

Yeah it just happens more so in softball, getting a no hitter or even perfect games. The girl from Drake has had like 5 perfect games this season.

We could get better or someone who is no worse. But a wrong move and we are definitely the worse program, TAM has been the worse the last couple of years. Arkansas was really bad for a while. It’s pitching this year but last year we didn’t have enough hitting and a bad defense. So for us most years it’s not just a one specific part of the game that’s plagued us. A dominate ace would help, not doubt that has been something that’s been issues at times. Honestly though we are just a couple more wins away each year to finishing top half of the league. The league really really eats itself.

[Dawg2003]

The goal is not to go to a regional with the 3 national seed. Half the teams that made super regionals can't beat Washington either, but they did enough to put themselves in a position where the got to host. That's all I'm asking.

[Really Clark?]

The goal is not to go to a regional with the 3 national seed. Half the teams that made super regionals can't beat Washington either, but they did enough to put themselves in a position where the got to host. That's all I'm asking.

Yeah but the host regional selection was trash as well. OM and Kentucky shouldn’t have hosted or been national seeds, as well as other teams. OM stunk the last few weeks so they didn’t do enough to warrant hosting, was not ranked in the Top 16 or have an RPI in the Top 16. So that’s a flawed standard to a degree as well.