MSU Has a Chance to be the Premier Baseball Program In America

[ShotgunDawg]

4 coaches in 4 years & this is the team we put on the field?

4 coaches with 4 different recruiting philosophies & this is the team we put on the field?

You've got to be kidding me! It's not supposed to work that way

That tells me that the MSU baseball brand does not only sell itself to some degree but that, if we can ever get 1 coach to stay here for a while & actually recruit his type of player, we've got a chance to be the premier baseball program in America.

Besides the championships, I feel like in some ways the MSU baseball program mirrors the Alabama football program.

Alabama figured out college football before most other schools did & thus Bear Bryant was able to win in an almost unopposed way. Much like Ron Polk. Polk figured out how to win in SEC baseball before everyone else was really trying.

Then, like Bama after Bear & MSU baseball after Polk 1, we had intermittent success but struggled to find that same consistency we had before because everyone else was now trying.

However, like Bama when they hired Saban, it feels like we've figured it out now. It feels like we've decided enough is enough & it's time to take our rightful claim atop the college baseball universe.

We've now put the pieces in place to go on a run & we've also figured out our scholarship situation to a large degree.

We've now got the culture, facilities, & brand to take it to the next level.

We've got aging coaches at Vandy, Florida, & LSU with those program losing their luster to some degree. Even with Vandy's success this year, that program isn't seen the same as it has been in the past.

We are close. Lemo just has to go recruit the right players & continue to find tough players that in many ways the Perfect Game circuit makes it more difficult to find.

[shoeless joe]

Eh...little bit over the top in optimism there.

If Ginn doesn’t show up on campus we’re not a National seed. But that wouldn’t make Lemonis any less of a coach. Also, if we falter in the supers then the tone and attitude of this type of post wouldn’t exist. Although, again, it wouldn’t really change much since you never know when it comes to baseball.

BUT I do think the program is in as good a shape as it’s been in 20-25 years.

[ShotgunDawg]

Eh...little bit over the top in optimism there.

If Ginn doesn?t show up on campus we?re not a National seed. But that wouldn?t make Lemonis any less of a coach. Also, if we falter in the supers then the tone and attitude of this type of post wouldn?t exist. Although, again, it wouldn?t really change much since you never know when it comes to baseball.

BUT I do think the program is in as good a shape as it?s been in 20-25 years.

There isn't a single top team in the country that didn't have guys like Ginn decide to go to school. Ginn isn't an outlier of top teams, he's a feature. Vandy has about 3 of them.

I don't think it's over the top at all. It's baseball, so you'll never have complete domination like you do in football, but MSU is in position to really become a premier program.

[msstate7]

There isn't a single top team in the country that didn't have guys like Ginn decide to go to school. Ginn isn't an outlier of top teams, he's a feature. Vandy has about 3 of them.

I don't think it's over the top at all. It's baseball, so you'll never have complete domination like you do in football, but MSU is in position to really become a premier program.

"A" premier and "the" premier are 2 different things. I agree with "a", but not so sure about "the"

[smootness]

There isn't a single top team in the country that didn't have guys like Ginn decide to go to school. Ginn isn't an outlier of top teams, he's a feature. Vandy has about 3 of them.

I don't think it's over the top at all. It's baseball, so you'll never have complete domination like you do in football, but MSU is in position to really become a premier program.

'We could be the top program in the country' and 'we're like Alabama football, just without the championships' is definitely over the top.

[Gutter Cobreh]

There isn't a single top team in the country that didn't have guys like Ginn decide to go to school. Ginn isn't an outlier of top teams, he's a feature. Vandy has about 3 of them.

I don't think it's over the top at all. It's baseball, so you'll never have complete domination like you do in football, but MSU is in position to really become a premier program.

With our facilities and game attendance numbers, I don't think you're far off. I think the key, more than Lemonis, is keeping the entire staff together for a few more seasons to continue the trajectory.

[DownwardDawg]

I agree with you. I think we could see 2-3 national championships over a 6-7 year span. I think we are really close.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think we can consistently be a top 10 type of program and possibly top 5. We need to win more than one National Title to be in the conversation with the LSU and Oregon St type programs. USCe might be on the decline but they have the National Titles to be up there. Arkansas is close to the same type of program we are. They have top 5-10 facilities along with around our history.

[ScoobaDawg]

'We could be the top program in the country' and 'we're like Alabama football, just without the championships' is definitely over the top.


Yep... even if we do achieve the highest honor this year and win the final game. That doesn't make us alabama football. That's placing the expectation not only we win this year but win another in the next couple of years.. and then again in the next 3 years.. and all the while make omaha every year in between. We could be heading that way but let's get one or two national championships under our belt before we start comparing ourselves to the even LSU baseball.

[BrunswickDawg]

I agree with the sentiment in the post title that we Could become the premier program in the country. We aren't there yet - but we have taken the steps to get us to that level. 3 CWS in 6 years would put us in elite company with 5 schools - LSU, UF, OSU, Texas Tech, TCU - that have 3 or more appearances so far in that time frame. Most of those teams are in a down cycle this year. We have the best facility in CBB. We are primed with young talent. We have elite coaching and recruiting. But, we need to break thru to call ourselves the premeir program. I think if we can finally break thru and with a CWS with this team it opens the flood gates.

[shannondawg]

I'll take winning one this year and worry about winning the next one after this.

[RougeDawg]

Baseball is so much different than football. Baseball being an individual game in a team sport is what makes it so difficult to win it all. One single player having one bad game can knock you out of it all. One player having a bad game for Bama football is often times not even noticed. Hell their offense can have a bad game and still beat a great team. Baseball is not that type of game.

Hard to compare the two, but I get your point on recruiting itself and should be perceived as a top 10 program year in and year out.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I just want to win a championship and until then, we can't talk about Alabama football

We are like the Oregon Football Ducks of baseball- No Championship but everything is cool otherwise

Gotta get the 1st championship then we probably win 4 in an 8 year period

[Homedawg]

Can we get to that level? Maybe. But it's a long way off. Gotta get the big one obviously, then maintain success. As it stands right now, we are behind, Fla, Lsu, Vandy, for sure. USC while down has two rings. And ARk is at worst on par with us. And that's just in our league.

[ShotgunDawg]

You guys are missing the entire point of my Alabama comparison.

My point was to compare the success before others were trying, the slump when others started trying, & then the process of figuring it out.

We are in the process of figuring it out.

Alabama can't exist in college baseball due to the scholarship situation & it wouldn't exist in college football if the scholarship situation was correct

[R2Dawg]

"A" premier and "the" premier are 2 different things. I agree with "a", but not so sure about "the"

Difference in A and The - A does it a few times, The does it for 10+ years. Agree we are A and can become a The after some championships.

[Saltydog]

Honestly, with the scholarship limitations we have I'm not so sure. It puts us at a distinct disadvantage in comparison to some others in this league, namely UGA and Vandy.

[ShotgunDawg]

Honestly, with the scholarship limitations we have I'm not so sure. It puts us at a distinct disadvantage in comparison to some others in this league, namely UGA and Vandy.

Vandy certainly has advantages, but we've really closed the gap in comparison to UGA, FL, & LSU on the in-state lottery stuff.

First off, MSU isn't that expensive of a school & we've found ways to lower the out of state cost considerably

Secondly, the 35 man roster limit has made it significantly more difficult for lottery state teams to stack their roster.

[BrunswickDawg]

Vandy certainly has advantages, but we've really closed the gap in comparison to UGA, FL, & LSU on the in-state lottery stuff.

First off, MSU isn't that expensive of a school & we've found ways to lower the out of state cost considerably

Secondly, the 35 man roster limit has made it significantly more difficult for lottery state teams to stack their roster.

UGA's advantage with HOPE isn't as great as everyone wants to make it out to be. UGA Tuition and Fees for in-state students is $12,080. Dorm and meal plan run $10,300. If you qualify for HOPE at UGA, you get $7,440 a year. So, if your kid goes there you are still looking at Tuition, Room and Board of almost $15k before your partial baseball scholarship. UGA OOS tuition is ridiculous ($31k annually + $10k room and board) - which is why UGA only has 3 out of state kids on their roster. And UGA gives no where near the academic scholarship money that MSU does. As long as MS keeps producing quality talent, MSU can stay competitive with lottery states.

[Todd4State]

I think we can. And the key for us to do that IMO is to keep getting the JT Ginn's into school. Do we have the coaches with the scouting connections to make that happen while at the same time getting the best players in Mississippi and identifying the under the radar guys like Hunter Renfroe once was?

[deadheaddawg]

With our facilities and game attendance numbers, I don't think you're far off. I think the key, more than Lemonis, is keeping the entire staff together for a few more seasons to continue the trajectory.

Our facilities are the best, but Arky and LSU have attendence on the same level as we do. As much as I hate to admit it, both have great gameday atmospheres, so we have competition there.

That's why I just can't root for either. I feel Arkansas could become the premiere school too.

We definitely can do it, and if anyone can we probably set up as good as anyone though.

Here's to getting started this year

[Todd4State]

Our facilities are the best, but Arky and LSU have attendence on the same level as we do. As much as I hate to admit it, both have great gameday atmospheres, so we have competition there.

That's why I just can't root for either. I feel Arkansas could become the premiere school too.

We definitely can do it, and if anyone can we probably set up as good as anyone though.

Here's to getting started this year

The big difference- Baton Rouge and Fayetteville/Springdale are both AA size cities/areas. MSU is located in a town that is smaller than a Rookie ball town. If LSU and Arkansas were in similar areas they would draw a lot less.

[deadheaddawg]

The big difference- Baton Rouge and Fayetteville/Springdale are both AA size cities/areas. MSU is located in a town that is smaller than a Rookie ball town. If LSU and Arkansas were in similar areas they would draw a lot less.

Well, lots of SEC schools are in area as big, or bigger, than Baton Rouge and Fayetteville, and don't draw well.

So, while they would draw less if they were in a smaller area, they still have really strong fan support. It's not like they are getting 11k just because it's something to do. They have a big, dedicated, knowledgeable fanbase

I still think we have the best, but I just bring it up because we do have competition in the fan department.

We have a clear facilities advantage right now though

[BuckyIsAB****]

4 coaches in 4 years & this is the team we put on the field?

4 coaches with 4 different recruiting philosophies & this is the team we put on the field?

You've got to be kidding me! It's not supposed to work that way

That tells me that the MSU baseball brand does not only sell itself to some degree but that, if we can ever get 1 coach to stay here for a while & actually recruit his type of player, we've got a chance to be the premier baseball program in America.

Besides the championships, I feel like in some ways the MSU baseball program mirrors the Alabama football program.

Alabama figured out college football before most other schools did & thus Bear Bryant was able to win in an almost unopposed way. Much like Ron Polk. Polk figured out how to win in SEC baseball before everyone else was really trying.

Then, like Bama after Bear & MSU baseball after Polk 1, we had intermittent success but struggled to find that same consistency we had before because everyone else was now trying.

However, like Bama when they hired Saban, it feels like we've figured it out now. It feels like we've decided enough is enough & it's time to take our rightful claim atop the college baseball universe.

We've now put the pieces in place to go on a run & we've also figured out our scholarship situation to a large degree.

We've now got the culture, facilities, & brand to take it to the next level.

We've got aging coaches at Vandy, Florida, & LSU with those program losing their luster to some degree. Even with Vandy's success this year, that program isn't seen the same as it has been in the past.

We are close. Lemo just has to go recruit the right players & continue to find tough players that in many ways the Perfect Game circuit makes it more difficult to find.

All that is great and I agree with a lot of it. There's just one big ass elephant in the room, there is no excuse for us to not have a natty in baseball. It is time to change it. It was time to change it in 1985, 1989, 2013, 2016 and a year ago

[Dawgcap]

See I disagree. I think we can be a top tier team without a National Title. We play the game at a high level. Do I expect to win it? Yes but I also realize every year we compete against other teams with similar talent and same goals. I’d love the Natty but only 1 team wins it every year. I don’t think we fail if we don’t win it. Never have never will. I consider it a failure to not have a chance to compete for it.

[Dawgcap]

To be premier in baseball is tough because of scholarship limits. More teams are in play. Basketball is next because of a 68 team tournament then football who is set up for the really big time programs.

[TUSK]

As you cats know, I'm a Bammer Homer...

I'm gonna go with the "It's a tad premature to equate MSU baseball to UA Football" crowd...

MSU baseball and UA baseball are more equitably comparable...

[99jc]

As you cats know, I'm a Bammer Homer...

I'm gonna go with the "It's a tad premature to equate MSU baseball to UA Football" crowd...

MSU baseball and UA baseball are more equitably comparable...

UA baseball.....shut the 17 up Clemsons Bitch.

[BrunswickDawg]

As you cats know, I'm a Bammer Homer...

I'm gonna go with the "It's a tad premature to equate MSU baseball to UA Football" crowd...

MSU baseball and UA baseball are more equitably comparable...

Bama baseball? Bless your heart. You don't have a player on your team old enough to remember the last time Bama went to the CWS.

[ShotgunDawg]

As you cats know, I'm a Bammer Homer...

I'm gonna go with the "It's a tad premature to equate MSU baseball to UA Football" crowd...

MSU baseball and UA baseball are more equitably comparable...

Wow. Uh no

[msstate7]

Bama baseball? Bless your heart. You don't have a player on your team old enough to remember the last time Bama went to the CWS.

Unfortunately, he's probably right. Here's the breakdown...

National championships:
Bama football - 17
State and Bama baseball - 0

Runner ups:
Bama football - 4
Bama baseball - 2
State baseball - 1

Conference titles:
Bama football - 31
Bama baseball - 14
State baseball - 17

Bowls/regionals:
Bama football - 70
Bama baseball - 23
State baseball - 37

Not sure what you compare CWS to in CFB, so I won't...

CWS:
Bama baseball - 5
State baseball - 10

[ShotgunDawg]

Unfortunately, he's probably right. Here's the breakdown...

National championships:
Bama football - 17
State and Bama baseball - 0

Runner ups:
Bama football - 4
Bama baseball - 2
State baseball - 1

Conference titles:
Bama football - 31
Bama baseball - 14
State baseball - 17

Bowls/regionals:
Bama football - 70
Bama baseball - 23
State baseball - 37

Not sure what you compare CWS to in CFB, so I won't...

CWS:
Bama baseball - 5
State baseball - 10

The structures of baseball and football are just so different it hard to make comparisons.

Again, I think people are completely missing my point from the original post. College football would be much better if it were more like college baseball in terms of parity.

Programs aren't just about the titles they've won. I was speaking to more of the culture, figuring it out, care factor, etc.

[Dawg2003]

I don't think we can be the premier program without a natty.

[RocketCityDawg]

All that is great and I agree with a lot of it. There's just one big ass elephant in the room, there is no excuse for us to not have a natty in baseball. It is time to change it. It was time to change it in 1985, 1989, 2013, 2016 and a year ago

One thing to keep in mind about comparing Bear's Bama football to Polk's MSU baseball is that baseball natty's were not just handed out like football natty's were in Bear's time. We would have several natty's in baseball if that were the case.

[deadheaddawg]

I don't think we can be the premier program without a natty.

You can't. You can be A premier program without one. You can be an elite program without one.

But because there is only 1 program at the very top, You cannot be THE premier program without one.... and you can't start comparing it to Bama without multiple ones.

[ShotgunDawg]

and you can't start comparing it to Bama without multiple ones.

A-Gain

Completely missing the point.

[deadheaddawg]

A-Gain

Completely missing the point.

No, I think I got your point. You are saying Alabama saw an opportunity in college football and Bama and the Bear put such an emphasis on it early, they created a monster. And you feel we are in position to do the same thing now. The problem with that, in my opinion, is we missed our opportunity. We had the chance the early 80s. Nobody gave a damn about baseball but us. And we "almost" did it with polk?..unfortunately LSU hired Bertman and they became the Bama of baseball. Everything you want us to take advantage of now..we were on the verge of it, but LSU came in and actually did it

So we missed the opportunity to jump ahead when nobody cared. Now, other schools care, obviously not as many or to the extent of football, but enough that we dont have the advantage of being the only one that cares. But maybe we have the advantage of being the place that cares the most.....but we do have competition.

Arky and LSU have the fans. UK, Florida, and Oklahoma state just spent comparable amounts of money on stadiums. Other programs care

[smootness]

No, I think I got your point. You are saying Alabama saw an opportunity in college football and Bama and the Bear put such an emphasis on it early, they created a monster. And you feel we are in position to do the same thing now. The problem with that, in my opinion, is we missed our opportunity. We had the chance the early 80s. Nobody gave a damn about baseball but us. And we "almost" did it with polk?..unfortunately LSU hired Bertman and they became the Bama of baseball. Everything you want us to take advantage of now..we were on the verge of it, but LSU came in and actually did it

So we missed the opportunity to jump ahead when nobody cared. Now, other schools care, obviously not as many or to the extent of football, but enough that we dont have the advantage of being the only one that cares. But maybe we have the advantage of being the place that cares the most.....but we do have competition.

Arky and LSU have the fans. UK, Florida, and Oklahoma state just spent comparable amounts of money on stadiums. Other programs care

This post completely nailed it.

[ShotgunDawg]

No, I think I got your point. You are saying Alabama saw an opportunity in college football and Bama and the Bear put such an emphasis on it early, they created a monster. And you feel we are in position to do the same thing now. The problem with that, in my opinion, is we missed our opportunity. We had the chance the early 80s. Nobody gave a damn about baseball but us. And we "almost" did it with polk?..unfortunately LSU hired Bertman and they became the Bama of baseball. Everything you want us to take advantage of now..we were on the verge of it, but LSU came in and actually did it

So we missed the opportunity to jump ahead when nobody cared. Now, other schools care, obviously not as many or to the extent of football, but enough that we dont have the advantage of being the only one that cares. But maybe we have the advantage of being the place that cares the most.....but we do have competition.

Arky and LSU have the fans. UK, Florida, and Oklahoma state just spent comparable amounts of money on stadiums. Other programs care

I see your point .

Maybe we are just Tennessee football but figuring it out

[deadheaddawg]

To make a comparison to a football program, I'd say the closest is we are the Texas A&M of baseball.

We are a sleeping giant with all the tools, desire, facilities, ect to take over. We just have to put it together

[ShotgunDawg]

To make a comparison to a football program, I'd say the closest is we are the Texas A&M of baseball.

We are a sleeping giant with all the tools, desire, facilities, ect to take over. We just have to put it together

But we have been far more successful than them and have a far greater culture

Maybe Michigan

[DancingRabbit]

But we have been far more successful than them and have a far greater culture

Maybe Michigan

They have an NC in the last 25 years. How about compared to Georgia football?

[deadheaddawg]

But we have been far more successful than them and have a far greater culture

Maybe Michigan

We have only been more successful because we have an 8 team world series in baseball...and not in football. When it comes to actual championships, we don't have a lot of recent history

We don't have any Natty's and only 1 conference championship since 89.

We have vastly underachieved, compared the our potential, in baseball. Much like A&M in football.

[MedDawg]

But we have been far more successful than them and have a far greater culture

Maybe Michigan

Michigan is a good analogy. Maybe even a better analogy with the old Dudy Noble (big old stadium). We have the big stadium and top crowd records and get close to championships but are often stopped by a big rival (Ohio State for them, LSU for us) or a bowl (CWS for us) loss.

Michigan does have half of a national championship in 1997, but again, that's from poll votes. State would have at least a few national championships if they were voted on at the end of the regular season (like 50+years ago in football) and one or two NC if they were voted on after the regionals or even halfway through the college world series. State might also have a few baseball national championships already if they used computer generated ratings like Sagarin.

[ShotgunDawg]

They have an NC in the last 25 years. How about compared to Georgia football?

You guys are focusing entirely too much on national championships & not enough just on the caliber of the program, the culture, etc.

Focusing on a national title is lowing hanging fruit that makes you not focus on my point. Get past the national title, which are more about luck in many way in baseball than any other sport.

[ShotgunDawg]

Michigan is a good analogy. Maybe even a better analogy with the old Dudy Noble (big old stadium). We have the big stadium and top crowd records and get close to championships but are often stopped by a big rival (Ohio State for them, LSU for us) or a bowl (CWS for us) loss.

Michigan does have half of a national championship in 1997, but again, that's from poll votes. State would have at least a few national championships if they were voted on at the end of the regular season (like 50+years ago in football) and one or two NC if they were voted on after the regionals or even halfway through the college world series. State might also have a few baseball national championships already if they used computer generated ratings like Sagarin.

A---gain, stop focusing on the national title piece of this. It distracts from the point

[deadheaddawg]

Ok. I think the issue is, you started a thread about being THE premier baseball program. And you used Bama football as a comparison benchmark. The problem appears to be, most people, myself included, do not believe you can be THE premier program in any sport without the titles to back it up.

To be THE premier program you have to win championships. I cannot think of a single example in any sport where THE premier program is one that doesn't win championships.

[BrunswickDawg]

You guys are focusing entirely too much on national championships & not enough just on the caliber of the program, the culture, etc.

Focusing on a national title is lowing hanging fruit that makes you not focus on my point. Get past the national title, which are more about luck in many way in baseball than any other sport.

I really don't think you can entirely separate NC's from the discussion. No one seems to disagree with your point that we have embraced baseball and provided everything we need to be considered an Elite. And I think people get what you mean by having lost our way for a bit via Polk II similarly to how Bama sort of lost their way after Bear. Not uncommon when you are replacing a mammoth legend in coaching. I think most of us are saying we have the tools to be the Premier program - but you can't declare it without a NC. Oh, and you agree with that in your post title "MSU has a Chance to be the Premier Baseball Program in America"


ETA - I also don't think you can come up with a legit comparison with what has happened over the past 10+ years with this program - from the time Polk "retired" thru now. "Retiring" a legend, splitting the fan base with his replacement, hitting rock bottom in 2009-10, our late season rallies to get to post season in '11 and getting 3 outs from Omaha; the '13 run, the '15 crash, the '16 worst to first, coaching change in '17, the '18 Cann debacle and Omaha run, funding and building the Taj Mahal of College Baseball in the middle of it and now this year? Hollywood couldn't script this.

[Todd4State]

You guys are focusing entirely too much on national championships & not enough just on the caliber of the program, the culture, etc.

Focusing on a national title is lowing hanging fruit that makes you not focus on my point. Get past the national title, which are more about luck in many way in baseball than any other sport.


A---gain, stop focusing on the national title piece of this. It distracts from the point

Exactly. We have the resources to be the premier program in the country. For some reason our fans like to take away from potential. I think it's lack of perspective. If they were Kentucky baseball fans maybe they would get your point then.


Ok. I think the issue is, you started a thread about being THE premier baseball program. And you used Bama football as a comparison benchmark. The problem appears to be, most people, myself included, do not believe you can be THE premier program in any sport without the titles to back it up.

To be THE premier program you have to win championships. I cannot think of a single example in any sport where THE premier program is one that doesn't win championships.

That's why he said we have a CHANCE to be the premier program in the country. If we keep going to Omaha consistently the odds of us winning a National Title go up. The CWS field is no better than the SEC Tournament and yet I'm sure there isn't anyone here that believes that we don't have the ability to win the SEC Tournament. And in some ways the CWS may be easier to win because the format allows you to use your top of the line pitchers more than the SEC Tournament format allows.

[Todd4State]

I really don't think you can entirely separate NC's from the discussion. No one seems to disagree with your point that we have embraced baseball and provided everything we need to be considered an Elite. And I think people get what you mean by having lost our way for a bit via Polk II similarly to how Bama sort of lost their way after Bear. Not uncommon when you are replacing a mammoth legend in coaching. I think most of us are saying we have the tools to be the Premier program - but you can't declare it without a NC. Oh, and you agree with that in your post title "MSU has a Chance to be the Premier Baseball Program in America"

It's certainly a factor- but the reality is we were more of a regional powerhouse- several SEC titles and good attendance from the beginning of our program's inception but only one CWS appearance until Polk came along and he helped us take the next step to being a National type program. We didn't consistently start going to Omaha until the 80's- consistent being defined as about once every four years or so on average. That's about what we have done the past 40 years. Even with all of the bad years factored in. 40 years isn't that long ago in college baseball terms. And then as soon as the SEC took it to the next level in the 90's teams started to catch up and pass us by because by that time Polk was burned out and we just stayed about where we were and then eventually when Polk came back we declined for ten years. We really didn't start to take the next step and improve until Cohen became our coach- and unfortunately he had to rebuild and deal with a fractured fan base which cost us several more years.


So, we're just now getting to that point where we are coming close to taking things to the next level and possibly realistically win a National Title. But if you consider our history it's understandable why we haven't won one if you think about it.

[MedDawg]

Who IS the premier baseball program in the country right now? Is there an Alabama Football in college baseball?

Oregon State? They won it all last season, but their previous NC were in 2006 and 2007. I don't know how they have done in the CWS other than those three years. I think State eliminated them in 2013.

Maybe LSU if you go back far enough, as their last NC was in 2009, but they were in the national finals recently.

Vandy? They've been consistently really good, about as good as anyone else in the country, and are likely the premier team in the SEC. But what have they done in the NCAA's since their only NC in 2014?

The point is...if Oregon State is currently baseball program in the country, or if there really is not one right now, then we could definitely get there. Problem is, it's almost harder to win the SEC than the national title.

[deadheaddawg]

I don't think there is one now. A bunch of elite ones, but no single big dog.

I don't follow baseball recruiting very closely, so maybe I am wrong on this, but it is my understanding that Vandy kinda dominates recruiting, so if I had to pick someone, I would pick the school that is currently attracting the most talent.

But I think it takes more than that to be considered THE premier program. And in my opinion to be THE program you have to have risen above everyone else.

I don't see a singular team as that dominate right now. In my opinion, college baseball has not had that since LSU's run of titles ended in 2009.....although it might have actually ended with LSU in 2000

[BrunswickDawg]

Who IS the premier baseball program in the country right now? Is there an Alabama Football in college baseball?

Oregon State? They won it all last season, but their previous NC were in 2006 and 2007. I don't know how they have done in the CWS other than those three years. I think State eliminated them in 2013.

Maybe LSU if you go back far enough, as their last NC was in 2009, but they were in the national finals recently.

Vandy? They've been consistently really good, about as good as anyone else in the country, and are likely the premier team in the SEC. But what have they done in the NCAA's since their only NC in 2014?

The point is...if Oregon State is currently baseball program in the country, or if there really is not one right now, then we could definitely get there. Problem is, it's almost harder to win the SEC than the national title.


I don't think there is one now. A bunch of elite ones, but no single big dog.

I don't follow baseball recruiting very closely, so maybe I am wrong on this, but it is my understanding that Vandy kinda dominates recruiting, so if I had to pick someone, I would pick the school that is currently attracting the most talent.

But I think it takes more than that to be considered THE premier program. And in my opinion to be THE program you have to have risen above everyone else.

I don't see a singular team as that dominate right now. In my opinion, college baseball has not had that since LSU's run of titles ended in 2009.....although it might have actually ended with LSU in 2000

I don't think there is a dominate team right now either - and really hasn't been since LSU in the 1990s. Teams seem to make a run for about a 3 year stretch then fall back a bit - but no single team dominates like LSU of the 90s or USC of the 70s. That's a good thing.

If I were to pick the Premier program right now I might have to agree with Vandy - but I don't think they are unbeatable or have a mystic like some teams have had in the past (maybe I'm just dead from all the whistling).

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't think there is a dominate team right now either - and really hasn't been since LSU in the 1990s WHEN THEY WERE USING STEROIDS AT AN UNPRECEDENTED LEVEL. Teams seem to make a run for about a 3 year stretch then fall back a bit - but no single team dominates like LSU of the 90s or USC of the 70s. That's a good thing.

If I were to pick the Premier program right now I might have to agree with Vandy - but I don't think they are unbeatable or have a mystic like some teams have had in the past (maybe I'm just dead from all the whistling).

FIFY

[BrunswickDawg]

FIFY

Hogwash. As all Hulk-a-maniacs know, it was the Training, Prayers, and Vitamins, brother.

[BuckyIsAB****]

As you cats know, I'm a Bammer Homer...

I'm gonna go with the "It's a tad premature to equate MSU baseball to UA Football" crowd...

MSU baseball and UA baseball are more equitably comparable...

Wayyyyy off here bud

[BuckyIsAB****]

Unfortunately, he's probably right. Here's the breakdown...

National championships:
Bama football - 17
State and Bama baseball - 0

Runner ups:
Bama football - 4
Bama baseball - 2
State baseball - 1

Conference titles:
Bama football - 31
Bama baseball - 14
State baseball - 17

Bowls/regionals:
Bama football - 70
Bama baseball - 23
State baseball - 37

Not sure what you compare CWS to in CFB, so I won't...

CWS:
Bama baseball - 5
State baseball - 10

Ok...they havent been relevant or given a shit for well over a decade. Maybe more.

[gravedigger]

UA baseball.....shut the 17 up Clemsons Bitch.

Wow. Shotguns OP sound so juvenile compared to the rest until.....

[dickiedawg]

We have to start making Omaha a heck of a lot more often if we want to be in the conversation of elite programs. Yes, a national title would be a heck of a start, though you can be an elite program without one. TCU, Louisville, Florida State are examples. Fresno State, Coastal Carolina are not elite by any stretch. Baseball is weird.

We have the best ballpark in the country, a bunch of attendance records and a damn good team this year. We're on an upward trajectory. But this whole thread is ridiculous hyperbole at this point.

[gravedigger]

We have to start making Omaha a heck of a lot more often if we want to be in the conversation of elite programs. Yes, a national title would be a heck of a start, though you can be an elite program without one. TCU, Louisville, Florida State are examples. Fresno State, Coastal Carolina are not elite by any stretch. Baseball is weird.

We have the best ballpark in the country, a bunch of attendance records and a damn good team this year. We're on an upward trajectory. But this whole thread is ridiculous hyperbole at this point.

Correct

[ShotgunDawg]

Hogwash. As all Hulk-a-maniacs know, it was the Training, Prayers, and Vitamins, brother.

Haha*

[Homedawg]

I see your point .

Maybe we are just Tennessee football but figuring it out

Yet they have a title...
I get that's not the entire point but we went through a bad dry spell for years. Ut is in it in football, but again while it's different, until you have a title you can't talk. Period.

[DancingRabbit]

We're on a good track. I don't think we'll check enough boxes to become THE premier baseball program very soon, but over the next 10 years get to Omaha 4 or 5 times and get a ring or two - then you are a legit premier team. Top 5 or top 10 any time people talk about the top baseball programs.

For now we've got the best ballpark and top 5 fan support. And one of the most exciting teams ever. Let's just go win the whole damn thing.

[Todd4State]

We have to start making Omaha a heck of a lot more often if we want to be in the conversation of elite programs. Yes, a national title would be a heck of a start, though you can be an elite program without one. TCU, Louisville, Florida State are examples. Fresno State, Coastal Carolina are not elite by any stretch. Baseball is weird.

We have the best ballpark in the country, a bunch of attendance records and a damn good team this year. We're on an upward trajectory. But this whole thread is ridiculous hyperbole at this point.

We're 14th all time in CWS appearances. And again that's with us really only starting to be a National type program the last 40 years with a 10 year rebuild thrown in there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_World_Series

[msstate7]

So did Rogers really say aTm, LSU, vandy, Florida, and ark are all better programs than us?

[Jarius]

So did Rogers really say aTm, LSU, vandy, Florida, and ark are all better programs than us?

He also said we offered Cliff Godwin over 3 times his current salary to come to MSU.

[MedDawg]

So did Rogers really say aTm, LSU, vandy, Florida, and ark are all better programs than us?

He said they were better than OM. Then when an Aggie noticed he left off State, Rogers said MSU and OM are neck and neck.

My opinion is Both State and OM are better programs/jobs than A&M. State is better than OM and on par with Arkansas. Arkansas and State have had very similar histories--multiple CWS in the 80's, then a lull with scattered CWS, then more recent success.

LSU and Florida are better programs/jobs than State, or at least they have been successful over a lot of years, including national championships and more CWS. Vandy, as good as they are right now, have only been good under Corbin. It's premature to say they are a premier job/program until they have done it under another coach. Lots of schools have the scholarship advantages that Vandy has but haven't been able to sustain success. Put Bianco at Vandy in 2001 and he doesn't do any better than he has at OM.


One measure of a program's quality is (or should be) success under different regimes vs just being good under their current coaches. State made the College World Series under Paul Gregory, Polk, McMahon, Polk II, Cohen, and Cann/Henderson. Lemonis has State as a probable national seed.

[ArrowDawg]

4 coaches in 4 years & this is the team we put on the field?

4 coaches with 4 different recruiting philosophies & this is the team we put on the field?

You've got to be kidding me! It's not supposed to work that way

That tells me that the MSU baseball brand does not only sell itself to some degree but that, if we can ever get 1 coach to stay here for a while & actually recruit his type of player, we've got a chance to be the premier baseball program in America.

Besides the championships, I feel like in some ways the MSU baseball program mirrors the Alabama football program.

Alabama figured out college football before most other schools did & thus Bear Bryant was able to win in an almost unopposed way. Much like Ron Polk. Polk figured out how to win in SEC baseball before everyone else was really trying.

Then, like Bama after Bear & MSU baseball after Polk 1, we had intermittent success but struggled to find that same consistency we had before because everyone else was now trying.

However, like Bama when they hired Saban, it feels like we've figured it out now. It feels like we've decided enough is enough & it's time to take our rightful claim atop the college baseball universe.

We've now put the pieces in place to go on a run & we've also figured out our scholarship situation to a large degree.

We've now got the culture, facilities, & brand to take it to the next level.

We've got aging coaches at Vandy, Florida, & LSU with those program losing their luster to some degree. Even with Vandy's success this year, that program isn't seen the same as it has been in the past.

We are close. Lemo just has to go recruit the right players & continue to find tough players that in many ways the Perfect Game circuit makes it more difficult to find.

We've got to win at least one title before we can start laying claim to being the premier program. We've got the potential, but for whatever reason we keep falling short.

[Todd4State]

So did Rogers really say aTm, LSU, vandy, Florida, and ark are all better programs than us?

Yeah- he did. And he said "history doesn't matter". Which is stupid. That would be like me claiming that the Alabama and Auburn football jobs are neck and neck and that Alabama's history doesn't matter.

It tells me that he doesn't understand MSU baseball and the resources that we have.

[Todd4State]

He also said we offered Cliff Godwin over 3 times his current salary to come to MSU.

I think Godwin played him.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think Godwin played him.

So did Godwin just turn down even interviewing or is it just bullshit on his part? I don't think we offered Godwin before we had Schloss at the finish line. I honestly don't know if Godwin was ever offered or if Cohen went from Schloss to Lemonis. Cohen seemed to take what McDonnell said about Lemonis very seriously. Of course it really looks like Lemonis was the right hire right now.

[Todd4State]

So did Godwin just turn down even interviewing or is it just bullshit on his part? I don't think we offered Godwin before we had Schloss at the finish line. I honestly don't know if Godwin was ever offered or if Cohen went from Schloss to Lemonis. Cohen seemed to take what McDonnell said about Lemonis very seriously. Of course it really looks like Lemonis was the right hire right now.

It's bullshit. If we offered to "triple his salary" why would he in his right mind stay at ECU where his salary went from 280K to 375K? If Rogers is telling the truth Godwin turned down 840K from MSU. So, almost a million from our "offer"- but ECU countered with less than half of that and he took it?

https://247sports.com/college/east-carolina/Article/ECU-Baseball-Cliff-Godwins-new-contract-extension-details-122004038/

Also- FWIW we offered Lemonis who had a similar resume as Godwin 600K with 25K increases over the next four. So yeah- this is not passing my BS meter.

https://www.djournal.com/sports/lemonis-happy-to-call-starkville-home-again/article_02a3f931-8da2-5ebd-83f2-a4893a76afef.html