Program Win Expectations

[BHildreth3]

I am shocked how many people are not excited about 7-8 wins a year. I could go into a lot here but I will just keep it simple since I am typing on my phone. On average we can only expect 7-8 wins a year unless Auburn, LSU and Bama struggle. And now Texas A&M make it even harder. Just a fact. I sure wish we were in the East!

[msstate7]

Most years (like 2019), I'll be thrilled with 8 regular season wins. There are years (like 2018) when I expect more though.

[deadheaddawg]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

[Goldendawg]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

Revisit the pre-season predictions from many sources about our 2018 team and hoping or even expecting more than 8 wins does not make you an "irrational fan with unrealistic goals" for last season. Eight no longer is what it used to be in today's world. I support State and always will, no matter who is the Coach. No maroon colored glasses that year, but have had them on in many of my 53 years of being at the games and my family in the Bulldog Club. I respect your opinion and your right to have it, but being disappointed and having a different opinion does not make us fans who are not behind the program. We now have a program and schedules that I now want and expect at least 8 wins every year. JMO. Hail State!

[msstate7]

Revisit the pre-season predictions from many sources about our 2018 team and hoping or even expecting more than 8 wins does not make you an "irrational fan with unrealistic goals" for last season. Eight no longer is what it used to be in today's world. I support State and always will, no matter who is the Coach. No maroon colored glasses that year, but have had them on in many of my 53 years of being at the games and my family in the Bulldog Club. I respect your opinion and your right to have it, but being disappointed and having a different opinion does not make us fans who are not behind the program. We now have a program and schedules that I now want and expect at least 8 wins every year. JMO. Hail State!

You must not know deadhead. If you have a differing opinion than him, you're "irrational".

[Dawgfan77]

2014 was the best and worst thing to happen to us. Yes we went to number 1 and it was glorious but it?s like crack we keep searching for that high again. Not saying we would have been 1 if Mullen had stayed for 18 but we had enough talent to challenge the upper level sec teams in 18. The frustration that I have is we hired a guy that?s a good offensive mind but we didn?t have nor do we have the players to run his system. In our recruiting foot print I?m not sure we can get the players to run it. Culturally and schematically it was a bad fit. We are seeing that in recruiting as well

[RougeDawg]

8 wins last year was the absolute minimum floor of wins, before the season started. That is one reason people feel the way they do at the moment. Looking at what we lost and how abysmal the offense was, is another reason. Until we have more data points that change the trajectory of the current mindset, I expect to keep seeing the same sentiment.

[WSOPdawg]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

Yeah, that's the biggest bunch of bullsh!t I've seen on here in a long time. The 2018 team had 3 1st round draft picks on D plus several more NFL-draftees in the upcoming draft. It's unfortunate the offense didn't perform as expected but while that was on JoMo, it was really on Cohen for not understanding that 2018 was our year to push for an Atlanta run.

Bring on the naysayers with those asking who else could have been hired to compensate for the few extra wins we needed, but that pig don't fly anymore. We've grown accustomed to 7-8 wins and I'm sorry but last year's 8-win performance was underwhelming. And I'm not being irrational, just disappointed at the underperformance.

[Homedawg]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

Yeah who would've Thought we might win 10 w that team???*****

[HoopsDawg]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

Vegas must have maroon colored glasses, b/c our O/U win total was 8.5 for the regular season.

[PMDawg]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

Ah, the old “anybody who disagrees with me is stupid” rationale. Most people move beyond that after the age of 12 or so. But please, tell me more about what makes you a football genius.

[deadheaddawg]

Vegas must have maroon colored glasses, b/c our O/U win total was 8.5 for the regular season.

um. Thanks for proving my point. Not sure why you added the maroon glasses part, because you agreed with me.

We were expected to win 8 or 9. The 10 win crowd didn't notice, through their maroon colored glasses, that we lost the best QB coach in the country.

But again. That's for backing me up

[msstate7]

Preseason #18 in AP to unranked

Espn fpi final ranking was #8; we lost to 4 teams below us

We lost to 3 teams we were at least a 6-pt favorite

[HoopsDawg]

um. Thanks for proving my point. Not sure why you added the maroon glasses part, because you agreed with me.

We were expected to win 8 or 9. The 10 win crowd didn't notice, through their maroon colored glasses, that we lost the best QB coach in the country.

But again. That's for backing me up

Why did you say 8 when that was the under and that's how many we won. We won under expectations. You are the least chill deadhead on the planet.

[HoopsDawg]

Preseason #18 in AP to unranked

Espn fpi final ranking was #8; we lost to 4 teams below us

We lost to 3 teams we were at least a 6-pt favorite

I seriously doubt a team with the no 1 ranked defense in the country has ever finished unranked.

[defiantdog]

I am shocked how many people are not excited about 7-8 wins a year. I could go into a lot here but I will just keep it simple since I am typing on my phone. On average we can only expect 7-8 wins a year unless Auburn, LSU and Bama struggle. And now Texas A&M make it even harder. Just a fact. I sure wish we were in the East!

Auburn will struggle this year..... we should have 8 wins if we beat Auburn. If not, I expect 7 wins. Our defense is gonna have to carry us in the majority of games.

[deadheaddawg]

I seriously doubt a team with the no 1 ranked defense in the country has ever finished unranked.

You have to go back 2 whole years to 2016.

2016 total defense ranking. #1 Boston college. Finish 7-6

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/2016/team/22

And it happened in 2015 (BC) and 2013 (Florida Atlantic)

[msstate7]

You have to go back 2 whole years to 2016.

2016 total defense ranking. #1 Boston college. Finish 7-6

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/2016/team/22

Not when you count all games. Bama was #1 if you use all games

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

[deadheaddawg]

Not when you count all games. Bama was #1 if you use all games

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

Ok. We can use your link. I like it better. You only have to go back one more year to 2015 BC

Went 3-9


http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

[msstate7]

Ok. We can use your link. I like it better. You only have to go back one more year to 2015 BC

Went 3-9


http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

That's pretty horrible by BC

[Goldendawg]

Ok. We can use your link. I like it better. You only have to go back one more year to 2015 BC

Went 3-9


http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

Dang, whose offense did Boston College run that year, Sly and Woody's?

[HoopsDawg]

So if we fire Moorhead don't hire Steve Addazio.

[defiantdog]

So if we fire Moorhead don't hire Steve Addazio.

We won't fire Moorhead this year.

[deadheaddawg]

That's pretty horrible by BC



Looking at the regular season you have 3 of the last 6 teams with the #1 defense not ranked.

I didn't go back that far on your reference, but in 2015 it happened with all games.

I know I can be a smart ass, but I am going to try to be better...so I want to say this more civil...... can we put to bed the idea that the #1 defense should guarantee success.

You still have to have an offense. And just because Morehead struggled offensively in his first year, with our specialized personal, doesn't mean the sky is falling.

First year coach.....SEC West....... An untypical QB....no WRs........ transitions have bumps. It's not unusual. People need to chill

[RezDog7]

Mullen only won 10 games with starting QB of the 17'ing Dallas Cowboys. You people are unreal. It's ok to be disappointed but you need to move on, the 2018 season is over.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think programs with fans that have high expectations eventually end up meeting them.

I think programs eventually meet the expectations that they have for themselves. Same thing with people in real life. You have a better chance of achieving big things when you have an expectation & drive to accomplish big things.

Thus, I prefer fans that have expectations vs those that set a limit. Yes, I get that the "high expectations" people can get annoying, but I believe they are far greater assets to our program than those who say we should be happy with where we currently are.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think programs with fans that have high expectations eventually end up meeting them.

I think programs eventually meet the expectations that they have for themselves. Same thing with people in real life. You have a better chance of achieving big things when you have an expectation & drive to accomplish big things.

Thus, I prefer fans that have expectations vs those that set a limit. Yes, I get that the "high expectations" people can get annoying, but I believe they are far greater assets to our program than those who say we should be happy with where we currently are.

I think programs that have high fan expectations ROOTED IN HISTORY eventually meet them, again. If they are based on nothing other than "We should do better" then that is almost always a recipe for disaster of EPIC proportions. If you want to make the transition.....you have to win at a high level for DECADES. It ain't easy. It will NEVER be a quick fix. It takes MUCH more than the right coach.

[Liverpooldawg]

Mullen only won 10 games with starting QB of the 17'ing Dallas Cowboys. You people are unreal. It's ok to be disappointed but you need to move on, the 2018 season is over.

Absolutely.

[Bothrops]

I've come to the conclusion that some of you actually want Moorhead to fail. Unbelievable, after one season, and here we are about to get a transfer that will help us right away.

[Todd4State]

2014 was the best and worst thing to happen to us. Yes we went to number 1 and it was glorious but it?s like crack we keep searching for that high again. Not saying we would have been 1 if Mullen had stayed for 18 but we had enough talent to challenge the upper level sec teams in 18. The frustration that I have is we hired a guy that?s a good offensive mind but we didn?t have nor do we have the players to run his system. In our recruiting foot print I?m not sure we can get the players to run it. Culturally and schematically it was a bad fit. We are seeing that in recruiting as well

People that have this opinion explain to me how MSU and Ole Miss have put QB's in the NFL, we have gotten RB's, Ole Miss has gotten WR's, both have gotten TE's and both have gotten o-linemen? I'm using Ole Miss because they are in our footprint. If they can get WR's WE can also get WR's.

USM is also in our footprint and they run a balanced offense and seem to be able to find competent QB's and WR's for their league. Most JUCO's in Mississippi run pass first or balanced offenses as well. If they can get players competent enough to run those systems why can't the largest University in the state?

This opinion just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


And I'm not even going to touch on the Mississippians like Gardner Minchew they we essentially run off because "they don't fit Mississippi State football".

[Todd4State]

I've come to the conclusion that some of you actually want Moorhead to fail. Unbelievable, after one season, and here we are about to get a transfer that will help us right away.

Yep. Because they overrated some players on offense.

[Todd4State]

I think programs with fans that have high expectations eventually end up meeting them.

I think programs eventually meet the expectations that they have for themselves. Same thing with people in real life. You have a better chance of achieving big things when you have an expectation & drive to accomplish big things.

Thus, I prefer fans that have expectations vs those that set a limit. Yes, I get that the "high expectations" people can get annoying, but I believe they are far greater assets to our program than those who say we should be happy with where we currently are.

What's hypocritical to me though is back in 2017 when we were getting our ass kicked by Georgia, Auburn, and etc. I said that we should strive to have higher expectations and I was told by some MSU superfans that if I wasn't happy winning 8 games a year in football I would never be happy. Now some of those same people are upset at a different coach producing the same results essentially in year one with Dan's players.

Yes, it's good to have high expectations. But fans have to also understand that sometimes those expectations aren't going to be met. When that happens it doesn't necessarily mean that the coach won't work. It means to me that we have to learn from our bad games and grow from it and get better so that we can meet the high expectations in the future. We have too many fans that have decided that last year was a once in a lifetime opportunity and all of this grandiose stuff. The reality is we didn't have the talent on offense to get it done against elite defenses.

[MarketingBully]

Yeah, that's the biggest bunch of bullsh!t I've seen on here in a long time. The 2018 team had 3 1st round draft picks on D plus several more NFL-draftees in the upcoming draft. It's unfortunate the offense didn't perform as expected but while that was on JoMo, it was really on Cohen for not understanding that 2018 was our year to push for an Atlanta run.

Bring on the naysayers with those asking who else could have been hired to compensate for the few extra wins we needed, but that pig don't fly anymore. We've grown accustomed to 7-8 wins and I'm sorry but last year's 8-win performance was underwhelming. And I'm not being irrational, just disappointed at the underperformance.

As long as Saban is at Bama, we won?t be going to Atlanta. Now we should have had a year like Florida or LSU and had a chance at a NY6 by beating Florida and finishing 9-3 in the regular season. But I digress. I personally thought Fitz was a big reason our offense sucked. He severely limited what Moorhead could call and you could tell he was uncomfortable calling so many running plays which was basically all Fitz was good at. Personally I think if we get Stevens, we are an 8-4 team this year as well. He knows the offense and imo will easily beat out KT for the job.

[Dawgfan77]

People that have this opinion explain to me how MSU and Ole Miss have put QB's in the NFL, we have gotten RB's, Ole Miss has gotten WR's, both have gotten TE's and both have gotten o-linemen? I'm using Ole Miss because they are in our footprint. If they can get WR's WE can also get WR's.

USM is also in our footprint and they run a balanced offense and seem to be able to find competent QB's and WR's for their league. Most JUCO's in Mississippi run pass first or balanced offenses as well. If they can get players competent enough to run those systems why can't the largest University in the state?

This opinion just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


And I'm not even going to touch on the Mississippians like Gardner Minchew they we essentially run off because "they don't fit Mississippi State football".

Todd you make some good points. However with the UM comparison we were not playin the same game as they were. And really other than manning who at QB have they put in the league? Do I think there are players in our footprint that fit our scheme? Maybe and Rodgers may be perfect at QB, but no one in JUCO or H.S. coaches the WR to run the West coast offense route tree. The teams you mentioned ran simple go routes, curls and post and didn?t require the reads our WR have too. That?s why I say culturally and schematically it was not a good fit

[BrunswickDawg]

Todd you make some good points. However with the UM comparison we were not playin the same game as they were. And really other than manning who at QB have they put in the league? Do I think there are players in our footprint that fit our scheme? Maybe and Rodgers may be perfect at QB, but no one in JUCO or H.S. coaches the WR to run the West coast offense route tree. The teams you mentioned ran simple go routes, curls and post and didn?t require the reads our WR have too. That?s why I say culturally and schematically it was not a good fit

Dr. Bo and AK-47 both made practice squads - but, that's not his point. His broader point is that teams within our state regularly find competent QB's. Bo, Nick ******* at USM, Tyler Russell, would all thrive in Joe's system. Minshew would have. The Abraham kid at USM who completed 74% of his passes and got almost 2400 yards last year might do well.

[ShotgunDawg]

I've come to the conclusion that some of you actually want Moorhead to fail. Unbelievable, after one season, and here we are about to get a transfer that will help us right away.

I don't think there is a single person on this board that wants that.

[msstate7]

I don't think there is a single person on this board that wants that.

Yeah, that's stupid. That seems to be a tactic people use to try and shut down a differing view

[RezDog7]

MSU goes to recess everyday on a playground full of bullies. Look how long it took Clemson to get where they are. Winning 8 games isn't guaranteed, and to get more we will need to knock off Bama and LSU on the regular along with beating auburn, A&M and never losing to Arky and OM. Now, you tell me the path to get more than 8 wins every year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The Minshew thing really exacerbated a lot of things last season. I mean here we are stuck in the mud offensively because we don't have a QB and then out at the Palouse there's a MISSISSIPPI kid leading the nation in passing. I think we would've been angry anyways, but Minshew having that type of season made things worse to some extent.

[Johnson85]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

You are essentially arguing that everybody that understands football expected Moorhead to be terrible against any defense with a pulse, which I think he was and is more highly thought of than that.

He shit the bed against UK badly and Florida to a lesser extent. It happens. We just needed a barely competent offense against UK and Florida and didn't get it. I don't think everybody that understands football expected it to be that bad. The people that expected us to win 8 games are much more likely to have thought that the defense wouldn't be as good as it was, or thought teams like Auburn and A&M would end up much better than they did.

But get that bullshit out of here about him meeting expectations. I still think Moorhead is going to work out based on his ability to score on mediocre or worse defenses in his first year without an SEC wr corps, but he was supposed to be the hottest OC in the country. Nobody expected him to completely freeze up against UK.

[Coach34]

Most people that actually understand football had last year's team as an 8 or 9 wins. Most people with higher expectations were just irrational fans.

It's a shame people convinced themselves of unrealistic things because they have on maroon colored glasses.

It's a shame, because we have a team and a coach, that met the actual real expectations in his first year, yet some of the fanbase is bound and determined to keep the fanbase from getting behind them.....all because they didn't meet their biased unrealistic goals.

10+ wins left with Mullen. Everyone with any sense understood that. Mullen is a QB whisperer. And Fitz isn't a QB that will work for most programs

This is just dumb on so many levels

The 2017 team went 9-4. The 2018 team:

Returned 17 starters (one of the highest in the SEC) and lots of experience.
Returned 4 OL starters and the complete starting DL- which is the backbone of your team

Only an idiot wouldnt expect the team to be better in 2018

Fitz was literally signed by an NFL team. 100 of the 120 college football programs would have loved to have had him as their QB. Those programs also know how to recruit WR's. As we saw in the Spring Game- their drops arent just limited to Fitz. This will be a problem in the Fall yet again.

[Scared_Hitless]

People that have this opinion explain to me how MSU and Ole Miss have put QB's in the NFL, we have gotten RB's, Ole Miss has gotten WR's, both have gotten TE's and both have gotten o-linemen? I'm using Ole Miss because they are in our footprint. If they can get WR's WE can also get WR's.

USM is also in our footprint and they run a balanced offense and seem to be able to find competent QB's and WR's for their league. Most JUCO's in Mississippi run pass first or balanced offenses as well. If they can get players competent enough to run those systems why can't the largest University in the state?

This opinion just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


And I'm not even going to touch on the Mississippians like Gardner Minchew they we essentially run off because "they don't fit Mississippi State football".

Bad Argument, with Joe we have gotten a solid passing QB in Garret Shraeder and we have another committed in Will Rogers. Under Mullen we got Athletes to play QB, only 1 really molded into a good QB which was Dak. Nick was limited, Relf was limited, Tyler Russell was limited though more so athletically. It takes a certain fit to maximize the offense. I think Mullen and Joe took limited guys and did the best they could. Mullen was better at it but that doesnt mean Joe will fail.

[Covercorner2]

I look at next season like this:

- We should start 4-0. UK is only game that is somewhat worrisome, but they lose a lot and its in Starkville.

- Will probably lose to Auburn @ Auburn, so 4-1.

- The next 3 games are crucial and somewhat toss-ups. If we at minimum just win one game we will then be 5-3.

- We will probably be favored @ Arkansas, so that's 6-3.

- We will lose to Bama, so that's 6-4.

- We should then win the next two games, so that's 8-4.

Basically just need to win 2 out of 4 against UT, LSU, A&M, and Arkansas to get to 8-4. It would be tough to lose all 4, so we are looking at around 7-9 wins, IMO. That's a pretty good season and another bowl game. I don't think this is a sunshine pumping outlook either, it's very doable.

[Johnson85]

Bad Argument, with Joe we have gotten a solid passing QB in Garret Shraeder and we have another committed in Will Rogers. Under Mullen we got Athletes to play QB, only 1 really molded into a good QB which was Dak. Nick was limited, Relf was limited, Tyler Russell was limited though more so athletically. It takes a certain fit to maximize the offense. I think Mullen and Joe took limited guys and did the best they could. Mullen was better at it but that doesnt mean Joe will fail.

Russel was not limited athletically. He was plenty athletic enough for a pocket passing QB. He was limited by having so few SEC quality receivers to throw to. I think Bumphis might have been the only one his entire career?

If you look at his stats against defenses on par with our WRs, he was plenty good.

[Scared_Hitless]

Russel was not limited athletically. He was plenty athletic enough for a pocket passing QB. He was limited by having so few SEC quality receivers to throw to. I think Bumphis might have been the only one his entire career?

If you look at his stats against defenses on par with our WRs, he was plenty good.

Limited Athletically for what Dan wanted to do with his QB. He was a good passer with enough mobility yet Mullen could utilize him. Dak was the only guy we had that could do both.

[Lord McBuckethead]

um. Thanks for proving my point. Not sure why you added the maroon glasses part, because you agreed with me.

We were expected to win 8 or 9. The 10 win crowd didn't notice, through their maroon colored glasses, that we lost the best QB coach in the country.

But again. That's for backing me up

Mullen is not the best QB coach in the country. He has a system that works for Lbs playing QB. Tebow, Dak, and Fitz were all successful because of their legs not arms. The only Qb that played Qb like a QB is Alex Smith. Some say yeah, he coached Newton. Well Newton was only there for a year, was probably one of the top 3 QBs in that class, and was a baller from the get go.

[Johnson85]

I look at next season like this:

- We should start 4-0. UK is only game that is somewhat worrisome, but they lose a lot and its in Starkville.

- Will probably lose to Auburn @ Auburn, so 4-1.

- The next 3 games are crucial and somewhat toss-ups. If we at minimum just win one game we will then be 5-3.

- We will probably be favored @ Arkansas, so that's 6-3.

- We will lose to Bama, so that's 6-4.

- We should then win the next two games, so that's 8-4.

Basically just need to win 2 out of 4 against UT, LSU, A&M, and Arkansas to get to 8-4. It would be tough to lose all 4, so we are looking at around 7-9 wins, IMO. That's a pretty good season and another bowl game. I don't think this is a sunshine pumping outlook either, it's very doable.


I would agree with this. Somebody on the schedule will end up being surprisingly good or surprisingly bad, but based on what it looks like now, our season next year probably swings on us winning @UT. We beat them, and we should get to 8 wins in a rebuilding year, which would I think get everybody completely behind Moorhead.

We have had a lot of success against A&M, but I think they were getting better at the end of last year and I am expecting them to be a good bit harder game than UT.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

What's hypocritical to me though is back in 2017 when we were getting our ass kicked by Georgia, Auburn, and etc. I said that we should strive to have higher expectations and I was told by some MSU superfans that if I wasn't happy winning 8 games a year in football I would never be happy. Now some of those same people are upset at a different coach producing the same results essentially in year one with Dan's players.

Yes, it's good to have high expectations. But fans have to also understand that sometimes those expectations aren't going to be met. When that happens it doesn't necessarily mean that the coach won't work. It means to me that we have to learn from our bad games and grow from it and get better so that we can meet the high expectations in the future. We have too many fans that have decided that last year was a once in a lifetime opportunity and all of this grandiose stuff. The reality is we didn't have the talent on offense to get it done against elite defenses.

There's also the people that constantly complained about Mullen's offense and how we would never compete against elite defenses until we started airing it out and stretching the field vertically. Now we have a guy that wants to do just that and he's being hammered (I would bet by the exact same people) for not running Mullen's playbook.

[tcdog70]

Bad Argument, with Joe we have gotten a solid passing QB in Garret Shraeder and we have another committed in Will Rogers. Under Mullen we got Athletes to play QB, only 1 really molded into a good QB which was Dak. Nick was limited, Relf was limited, Tyler Russell was limited though more so athletically. It takes a certain fit to maximize the offense. I think Mullen and Joe took limited guys and did the best they could. Mullen was better at it but that doesnt mean Joe will fail.

hell , compared to Nick-Rogers and Shraeder will be limited. Nick was limited by an offense that didn't use his best qualities and asked Him to do things that wasn't His strengths. to me that Means JOMO was limited . If we had just lined up on offense and ran the read option we would have won 10 games easily. Shit-if we had just ran a QB sneak when we needed to, we would have won 10 games.

[bluelightstar]

Mullen is not the best QB coach in the country. He has a system that works for Lbs playing QB. Tebow, Dak, and Fitz were all successful because of their legs not arms. The only Qb that played Qb like a QB is Alex Smith. Some say yeah, he coached Newton. Well Newton was only there for a year, was probably one of the top 3 QBs in that class, and was a baller from the get go.

Say what? Dak passed for over 7,200 yards in his last 2 seasons. Our offense in 2015 was basically all Dak's arm. We passed for 4,113 and rushed for 1873 (Dak had 3793 passing and 588 rushing). We threw the ball close to 40 times a game. If anything, this just shows that Mullen actually can adjust his offense based on what the team could do -- although it took him until halftime of the LSU game that year to figure out we couldn't run the ball.

[msstate7]

There's also the people that constantly complained about Mullen's offense and how we would never compete against elite defenses until we started airing it out and stretching the field vertically. Now we have a guy that wants to do just that and he's being hammered (I would bet by the exact same people) for not running Mullen's playbook.

Sounds good. If you wanna beat bama's nfl corners deep, you've gotta get nfl WRs. We have not shown an ability to get elite WRs with the last staff or this one

[Tbonewannabe]

Preseason #18 in AP to unranked

Espn fpi final ranking was #8; we lost to 4 teams below us

We lost to 3 teams we were at least a 6-pt favorite
And if Guidry catches a pass that hit him in the chest, we finish at least #18. What was the line on the Auburn and A&M games or do we only count losses?

[Scared_Hitless]

hell , compared to Nick-Rogers and Shraeder will be limited. Nick was limited by an offense that didn't use his best qualities and asked Him to do things that wasn't His strengths. to me that Means JOMO was limited . If we had just lined up on offense and ran the read option we would have won 10 games easily. Shit-if we had just ran a QB sneak when we needed to, we would have won 10 games.

Shraeder is better than Nick in every facet of the game coming out of High School. He is a better Athlete as well, and much more gifted at passing. Can Joe get him to the next level we will see.

[bluelightstar]

And if Guidry catches a pass that hit him in the chest, we finish at least #18. What was the line on the Auburn and A&M games or do we only count losses?

AUB -3.0 and MSST -1.0

[Tbonewannabe]

I think programs with fans that have high expectations eventually end up meeting them.

I think programs eventually meet the expectations that they have for themselves. Same thing with people in real life. You have a better chance of achieving big things when you have an expectation & drive to accomplish big things.

Thus, I prefer fans that have expectations vs those that set a limit. Yes, I get that the "high expectations" people can get annoying, but I believe they are far greater assets to our program than those who say we should be happy with where we currently are.

You also have to give good coaches more than 1 year. Unrealistic expectations are probably as bad or worse than not having high enough expectations.

[Tbonewannabe]

You are essentially arguing that everybody that understands football expected Moorhead to be terrible against any defense with a pulse, which I think he was and is more highly thought of than that.

He shit the bed against UK badly and Florida to a lesser extent. It happens. We just needed a barely competent offense against UK and Florida and didn't get it. I don't think everybody that understands football expected it to be that bad. The people that expected us to win 8 games are much more likely to have thought that the defense wouldn't be as good as it was, or thought teams like Auburn and A&M would end up much better than they did.

But get that bullshit out of here about him meeting expectations. I still think Moorhead is going to work out based on his ability to score on mediocre or worse defenses in his first year without an SEC wr corps, but he was supposed to be the hottest OC in the country. Nobody expected him to completely freeze up against UK.

I think UK was just the perfect storm for UK's team. I went to the game with UK fans and they said that they had never seen a home game like that. It was UK's equivalent of when we played Auburn to be #1. That was the epitome of a home game advantage. Then of course the rain didn't help matters. UK was going all in to shut down our run game and was forcing Nick to throw. The one place we could have had success is if Nick had decided to run on pass plays but he kept chunking it downfield instead of running for first downs. It was also the first game that Moorhead's offense wasn't steam rolling people and might have caught them off guard. I do think we should have had better in game adjustments but that game wasn't a walk in the park.

Once again, people are looking at the name on the jersey. UK had basically the same level defense in 2018 that UGA or Auburn did in 2017. In 2017, we got the SHIT kicked out of us but I guess Moorhead in year 1 with Mullen's players is supposed to be better than Mullen in year 9.

[Tbonewannabe]

There's also the people that constantly complained about Mullen's offense and how we would never compete against elite defenses until we started airing it out and stretching the field vertically. Now we have a guy that wants to do just that and he's being hammered (I would bet by the exact same people) for not running Mullen's playbook.

The biggest problem was Mullen's mediocre offense against great defenses was better than Moorhead's year 1 offense that shit the bed. Mullen typically had 1 or 2 games every year or so but Moorhead's offense looked like that 4 times. His offense did look ok against an Iowa defense that was top 10 but we still lost (which was more on the defense and Guidry's drop).

[bluelightstar]

The biggest problem was Mullen's mediocre offense against great defenses was better than Moorhead's year 1 offense that shit the bed. Mullen typically had 1 or 2 games every year or so but Moorhead's offense looked like that 4 times. His offense did look ok against an Iowa defense that was top 10 but we still lost (which was more on the defense and Guidry's drop).

No, I think it was mostly on the turnovers that gave them the ball on our 19 and 32.

[Johnson85]

I think UK was just the perfect storm for UK's team. I went to the game with UK fans and they said that they had never seen a home game like that. It was UK's equivalent of when we played Auburn to be #1. That was the epitome of a home game advantage. Then of course the rain didn't help matters. UK was going all in to shut down our run game and was forcing Nick to throw. The one place we could have had success is if Nick had decided to run on pass plays but he kept chunking it downfield instead of running for first downs. It was also the first game that Moorhead's offense wasn't steam rolling people and might have caught them off guard. I do think we should have had better in game adjustments but that game wasn't a walk in the park.

Once again, people are looking at the name on the jersey. UK had basically the same level defense in 2018 that UGA or Auburn did in 2017. In 2017, we got the SHIT kicked out of us but I guess Moorhead in year 1 with Mullen's players is supposed to be better than Mullen in year 9.

In 2017, we were coming off a 6-7 season (that was only '6' because we had a good APR or whatever the graduation stat is) and still had a lot of questions. We also didn't have as dominant of a defense and our defense got rolled in that game also. In 2018, we were coming off a 9 win season where where we either upgraded our talent or had a returning starter for every position except left tackle. We also had a dominant defense that more than held up their end of the bargain for 3 quarters. It still took two bad calls for UK to get their first 14 points. But more importantly, it's how we looked so bad. We let one guy destroy us off the edge for 3 quarters before we tried to provide any help, and at that point it was too late. We had significant limitations, so would not have been upset if we had struggled to maintain drives against UK. But Moorhead didn't give them a chance b/c he wasn't ready for Allen to begin with and then didn't make any adjustments when it was clear our tackles couldn't block him. Just a few stuttering drives to give our D a break could have been all it took.

[Tbonewannabe]

No, I think it was mostly on the turnovers that gave them the ball on our 19 and 32.

It was the one game that our defense gave up big plays and TDs instead of FGs. It happens but in almost every other game our defense gives us a win if we score 22 and Guidry literally dropped a TD to put the score at 29.

[msstate7]

Delete

[StateDawg44]

I think UK was just the perfect storm for UK's team. I went to the game with UK fans and they said that they had never seen a home game like that. It was UK's equivalent of when we played Auburn to be #1. That was the epitome of a home game advantage. Then of course the rain didn't help matters. UK was going all in to shut down our run game and was forcing Nick to throw. The one place we could have had success is if Nick had decided to run on pass plays but he kept chunking it downfield instead of running for first downs. It was also the first game that Moorhead's offense wasn't steam rolling people and might have caught them off guard. I do think we should have had better in game adjustments but that game wasn't a walk in the park.

Once again, people are looking at the name on the jersey. UK had basically the same level defense in 2018 that UGA or Auburn did in 2017. In 2017, we got the SHIT kicked out of us but I guess Moorhead in year 1 with Mullen's players is supposed to be better than Mullen in year 9.

Well yeah.... they didn't meet my damn expectations you know.****

Some people's expectations for last year and all the pre-season hype has certain "fans" butt-hurt STILL somehow. Too many chicken littles posting and starting threads that are embarrassing to most fans or potential fans that visit this site just to pop in and see if there is any news that might be interesting to know. Truly cringeworthy and a bad look for intriguing minds. Luckily those that are miserable are only an inkling of the actual MSU fanbase. Too bad they have a public platform for anyone to see and can represent a portion of the fanbase by doing so.

[Tbonewannabe]

In 2017, we were coming off a 6-7 season (that was only '6' because we had a good APR or whatever the graduation stat is) and still had a lot of questions. We also didn't have as dominant of a defense and our defense got rolled in that game also. In 2018, we were coming off a 9 win season where where we either upgraded our talent or had a returning starter for every position except left tackle. We also had a dominant defense that more than held up their end of the bargain for 3 quarters. It still took two bad calls for UK to get their first 14 points. But more importantly, it's how we looked so bad. We let one guy destroy us off the edge for 3 quarters before we tried to provide any help, and at that point it was too late. We had significant limitations, so would not have been upset if we had struggled to maintain drives against UK. But Moorhead didn't give them a chance b/c he wasn't ready for Allen to begin with and then didn't make any adjustments when it was clear our tackles couldn't block him. Just a few stuttering drives to give our D a break could have been all it took.

I agree that I think a first time SEC head coach 17ed up in the first really tough road environment. He should have made adjustments. We did try a couple of people at LT because they kept getting a false start penalty.

We did greatly improve for the rest of the season on those penalties but do you think Mullen 100% wins that game in that environment with 160 yards of penalties?

[msstate7]

I agree that I think a first time SEC head coach 17ed up in the first really tough road environment. He should have made adjustments. We did try a couple of people at LT because they kept getting a false start penalty.

We did greatly improve for the rest of the season on those penalties but do you think Mullen 100% wins that game in that environment with 160 yards of penalties?

We broke 100 yds in penalties 1 time under Mullen. It was his first game vs Jackson st (101 yds)

[deadheaddawg]

Well yeah.... they didn't meet my damn expectations you know.****

Some people's expectations for last year and all the pre-season hype has certain "fans" butt-hurt STILL somehow. Too many chicken littles posting and starting threads that are embarrassing to most fans or potential fans that visit this site just to pop in and see if there is any news that might be interesting to know. Truly cringeworthy and a bad look for intriguing minds. Luckily those that are miserable are only an inkling of the actual MSU fanbase. Too bad they have a public platform for anyone to see and can represent a portion of the fanbase by doing so.

Boom. You nailed it.

I get so frustrated because it is embarrassing having these people as such vocal fans.

[bluelightstar]

I agree that I think a first time SEC head coach 17ed up in the first really tough road environment. He should have made adjustments. We did try a couple of people at LT because they kept getting a false start penalty.

We did greatly improve for the rest of the season on those penalties but do you think Mullen 100% wins that game in that environment with 160 yards of penalties?

We'd have never gotten 160 yards of penalties under Mullen. But Mullen left; we didn't fire him, so I agree with you in wondering why we keep asking what Mullen would've done.

[Tbonewannabe]

We broke 100 yds in penalties 1 time under Mullen. It was his first game vs Jackson st (101 yds)

So you are saying there was no possible way that our team in that environment would have 100 yards in penalties if Mullen was the coach? It must be nice to have that special ability.

[bluelightstar]

So you are saying there was no possible way that our team in that environment would have 100 yards in penalties if Mullen was the coach? It must be nice to have that special ability.

I mean, are you suggesting that freakin' Kroger Field is the most raucous environment that our team has ever played in..?

[msstate7]

So you are saying there was no possible way that our team in that environment would have 100 yards in penalties if Mullen was the coach? It must be nice to have that special ability.

Well it didn't happen in 9 years

[Tbonewannabe]

I mean, are you suggesting that freakin' Kroger Field is the most raucous environment that our team has ever played in..?

No but also, were you at the game? It was 65,000 people yelling their ass off in a rainstorm while their team was kicking a high ranked team's ass. Do you think that would be a cake walk in the SEC? I have been to every stadium in the SEC except UT, A&M, and Mizzou, that atmosphere is up there with most I have been to. I have been to UK several times actually and that was the first time I felt it was a SEC type football environment.

[Tbonewannabe]

Well it didn't happen in 9 years

Past history doesn't guarantee future results unless we just need to quit playing sports. Someone tell Mullen to leave the SEC because he is guaranteed to never beat Bama.

[bluelightstar]

No but also, were you at the game? It was 65,000 people yelling their ass off in a rainstorm while their team was kicking a high ranked team's ass. Do you think that would be a cake walk in the SEC? I have been to every stadium in the SEC except UT, A&M, and Mizzou, that atmosphere is up there with most I have been to. I have been to UK several times actually and that was the first time I felt it was a SEC type football environment.

We aren't talking about whether the game would be difficult though. We're talking about the 160 yards in penalties.

[msstate7]

Past history doesn't guarantee future results unless we just need to quit playing sports. Someone tell Mullen to leave the SEC because he is guaranteed to never beat Bama.

I guess you think Moorhead will. Maybe we should concentrate on Kentucky first

[Tbonewannabe]

We aren't talking about whether the game would be difficult though. We're talking about the 160 yards in penalties.

The environment helped cause a lot of those penalties. Moorhead also vastly improved that issue. There isn't much you can do to make an in game adjustment. He changed LTs during the game but we still were getting false starts. I think that he should have just put a TE on that side just to even give the LT some confidence but coaches screw up. Prime example of that is Holloway up the middle every 17ing game for a solid year.

[msstate7]

The environment helped cause a lot of those penalties. Moorhead also vastly improved that issue. There isn't much you can do to make an in game adjustment. He changed LTs during the game but we still were getting false starts. I think that he should have just put a TE on that side just to even give the LT some confidence but coaches screw up. Prime example of that is Holloway up the middle every 17ing game for a solid year.

Not sure his offense has a good solution for a dominant de bc penn st had no answer either. Allen did the exact thing vs them with no adjustments

[Tbonewannabe]

I guess you think Moorhead will. Maybe we should concentrate on Kentucky first

I am not sold on Moorhead one way or the other. I do believe that to be able to beat Bama, you have to have explosive plays. There is pretty much no one that has beat Bama by going 12-14 plays down the field on a consistent basis. In 2017, we were probably the closest to do that to Bama but of course we also lost that game anyway.

I think using historical results, like you like to do, Moorhead would then work out since he has always improved everywhere he has been. So since there is exactly 0% chance that Mullen is our coach in 2019, maybe Moorhead works out. I do know it would probably be disastrous to fire Moorhead right now like Preacher wants to do. It would probably be on the Croom level and would be used against us in recruiting and hiring actual coaches.

[RezDog7]

Not sure his offense has a good solution for a dominant de bc penn st had no answer either. Allen did the exact thing vs them with no adjustments

Remind me, but wasn't Allen just drafted top 5? Maybe he's just a really good player. You really need to get yourself a drink and stop stressing over MSU football. Us so called Moorhead apologist aren't saying that we weren't disappointed in last season. We are saying, it was his first season where he still won 8 games. Can we at least give the guy another season before we fire him. I'm guessing not and you will be on every game thread bitching about every play. It's ****ing annoying and has gotten out of hand.

[msstate7]

I am not sold on Moorhead one way or the other. I do believe that to be able to beat Bama, you have to have explosive plays. There is pretty much no one that has beat Bama by going 12-14 plays down the field on a consistent basis. In 2017, we were probably the closest to do that to Bama but of course we also lost that game anyway.

I think using historical results, like you like to do, Moorhead would then work out since he has always improved everywhere he has been. So since there is exactly 0% chance that Mullen is our coach in 2019, maybe Moorhead works out. I do know it would probably be disastrous to fire Moorhead right now like Preacher wants to do. It would probably be on the Croom level and would be used against us in recruiting and hiring actual coaches.
I don't give a crap about losing to Bama... everyone does. Most years, my goal is 8 wins. I just want a NY6 bowl every 3-5 years. We aren't gonna be able to recruit at the level it takes to beat bama.

[msstate7]

Remind me, but wasn't Allen just drafted top 5? Maybe he's just a really good player. You really need to get yourself a drink and stop stressing over MSU football. Us so called Moorhead apologist aren't saying that we weren't disappointed in last season. We are saying, it was his first season where he still won 8 games. Can we at least give the guy another season before we fire him. I'm guessing not and you will be on every game thread bitching about every play. It's ****ing annoying and has gotten out of hand.

What do you consider this post to be other than "bitching"?

I've never called for Moorhead to be fired so quit misquoting me. I've been nothing but cordial to all of you but bc you disagree with me you resort to name calling and such.

[RezDog7]

What do you consider this post to be other than "bitching"?

I've never called for Moorhead to be fired so quit misquoting me. I've been nothing but cordial to all of you but bc you disagree with me you resort to name calling and such.

Where in that post did I call you a name? I said move on from 2018 and quit bitching, it's annoying and you're not helping anything.

[Tbonewannabe]

Not sure his offense has a good solution for a dominant de bc penn st had no answer either. Allen did the exact thing vs them with no adjustments

Allen caused more false starts than anything else. He had our LT (whoever we put over there) scared. Allen actually had 2 TFL and 1 sack.

Not sure that an elite player making plays is just confined to Moorhead's offense. I remember Auburn having a guy that had 4 or so sacks against us years ago. LSU, AU, UGA, and Bama have all had elite defensive players have great games against Mullen offenses. Are we ignoring the times that Mullen scored 3 and 6 points against those great defenses? I just personally think it is early to assume Moorhead needs to be shitcanned immediately. He has had positives and negatives. We have gotten used to having a very good coach but Mullen also had a shit year in 2011 with a good bit of NFL talent only he was in his 3rd year. With the attitudes on this board right now, Mullen would have been fired at that point and we never would have had the 2014 season.

[Tbonewannabe]

What do you consider this post to be other than "bitching"?

I've never called for Moorhead to be fired so quit misquoting me. I've been nothing but cordial to all of you but bc you disagree with me you resort to name calling and such.

So what are you wanting to happen? You along with several other people are on the side of the fence that Moorhead's offense will never work against good defenses and he is a Croom like hire. Are you just the type of person that only points out negative things? If you are then I guess I have been debating with you incorrectly. I assumed when you pretty much say someone sucks that you don't want them as the coach.

I personally am in a wait and see mode. I think this year will let us know what we truly have in a coach. Mullen rarely beat teams that were better than his team so I was hoping that we would get the consistency of winning all those type of equal to lesser than games (those get you to bowls) and start having an offense that could take down a Bama, UGA, or LSU (when they are elite).

I am not sold on Moorhead's offense but I did see enough with having WRs running open to hope that we get the players that can make the plays. With a QB and WRs that are just average in the SEC at throwing and catching, I think we would have won 10 games last year. But I do think Moorhead has to deliver something in those games this year or we lose too much momentum.

If our offense this year can't score in double digits against the LSU and Bama type of teams then something will need to be done. I am just willing to see results this year before making my decision.

[msstate7]

I was majorly concerned about Moorhead about the 2nd quarter or the Kentucky game. I really changed my mind on him though vs auburn. I saw a guy realize that our strength was our run blocking oline and RBs. I bragged on Moorhead big time after auburn game. After that though, he inexplicably went away from the designed rb runs. I was pissed and have remained that way until the present. I really hope joe goes to the workshop this offseason and adds more designed rb carries. I think we can get RBs and olinemen. I'm not so sure we can get WRs. I wanna dictate to the defense more instead of the defense dictating what we do. I wanna get more plays per game, not less. I'm just really frustrated, but I will give Moorhead a clean slate come August. I expect 6-7 wins, and won't be mad if we reach it while looking somewhat competent offensively vs decent defenses.

Sorry for rambling...

[Tbonewannabe]

I was majorly concerned about Moorhead about the 2nd quarter or the Kentucky game. I really changed my mind on him though vs auburn. I saw a guy realize that our strength was our run blocking oline and RBs. I bragged on Moorhead big time after auburn game. After that though, he inexplicably went away from the designed rb runs. I was pissed and have remained that way until the present. I really hope joe goes to the workshop this offseason and adds more designed rb carries. I think we can get RBs and olinemen. I'm not so sure we can get WRs. I wanna dictate to the defense more instead of the defense dictating what we do. I wanna get more plays per game, not less. I'm just really frustrated, but I will give Moorhead a clean slate come August. I expect 6-7 wins, and won't be mad if we reach it while looking somewhat competent offensively vs decent defenses.

Sorry for rambling...

This is honestly where I am at also. We have the returning talent to win the OOC (we don't have a truly tough game like we have run into occasionally like Oregon), we should win UK and UM at home (no reason to drop those home games), and I think we should win Ark. That is 7 games that I expect to win but my floor is 6 must win games to keep the bowl streak alive. Below 6 and there better be some weird shit like losing on a couple of Hail Marys but beating Bama.

I think UT is a toss up game. I think we will have a better team but it is an away game which pushes it more as a toss up. We have a chance to win at AU and at A&M. If I had to guess, I would put it as 30 or 40% chance to win due to on the road. If these were at home I would say toss up.

LSU is probably about the same due to it being a home game. Not a true toss up but more 40% chance. Bama is a 1% chance until I see something that makes me think we can ever beat Saban.

I also wanted to add: our offense has to look like an actual operating offense against everyone. Moorhead has proven he can dominant teams like UM, Ark, La Tech (pretty good defense) and A&M last year with how he wants his offense to work. The Iowa game wasn't a horrible offensive game plan showing.

I am not pissed at losing to LSU or Bama if it is a score like 24-17 or 30-21. I just want to see some type of offense that at least makes those defenses look like they have to work to stop our Offense.

[deadheaddawg]

There are people like shotgun and preacher that clearly are wanting him to be fired. Which is absurd. Thankfully it's not happening, because it would be foolish and devastating to the programs public image to do it now.

Because you can't fire a coach after his first year for winning the amount of games he was predicted to.

You give a coach time. If he meets expectations, which was 8-9 wins, in her s first year, that's neither a good sign or a bad sign. ......He didn't do a great job. He didn't do a bad job.