Joe Moorhead article in The Athletic

[bluelightstar]

https://theathletic.com/958264/2019/05/02/joe-moorhead-mississippi-state-year-1-lessons-sec-coach/

Interesting read. A few points:

1. Taking a larger role in the offense with Getsy's departure
2. Thought some players had success doing things a certain way and maybe were "resistant" (my words, not his) to some different offensive things.
3. Season was overall a success

Quote in there from an unidentified staffer; "it was made out like we inherited the '72 Dolphins"

[msstate7]

I absolutely hate quotes from anonymous people.

[confucius say]

This should end well.

[TrapGame]

Please don't turn this into Joe's A Tard thread #416.

[CadaverDawg]

https://theathletic.com/958264/2019/05/02/joe-moorhead-mississippi-state-year-1-lessons-sec-coach/

Interesting read. A few points:

1. Taking a larger role in the offense with Getsy's departure
2. Thought some players had success doing things a certain way and maybe were "resistant" (my words, not his) to some different offensive things.
3. Season was overall a success

Quote in there from an unidentified staffer; "it was made out like we inherited the '72 Dolphins"

#Croomspeak

[Jack Lambert]

#Croomspeak

Croom would have had a candy bar in his mouth. Moorhead has lost weight.

[Maroonthirteen]

Bottom line, Moorhead did a good job.

Some may not want to hear this, but an 8 win season is a good season. Any way you slice it.

I agree with anonymous. Defensively, we were hell. But we busted a coverage in the outback that cost us big time. So we weren?t perfect. Offensively our passing game was terrible for
Many reasons and not just on one guy.

Moorhead had a successful first year.

[bluelightstar]

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mississippi-state-football/keytaon-thompson-tom-luginbill-bulldogs-offense-improvement-nick-fitzgerald-2019/

Another interesting read -- transcribing much of an interview with Tom Luginbill, who called our games 3 times last year. Apparently, he and McElroy thought we might need to change QBs after the first game that they saw us (which I'm pretty sure was Florida). A lot of knowledgeable people are convinced that Moorhead's fine but it takes a certain type of offensive coach to win with Fitz. I'm willing to wait out the fall before I jump off the ledge.

[Johnson85]

Bottom line, Moorhead did a good job.

Some may not want to hear this, but an 8 win season is a good season. Any way you slice it.

I agree with anonymous. Defensively, we were hell. But we busted a coverage in the outback that cost us big time. So we weren?t perfect. Offensively our passing game was terrible for
Many reasons and not just on one guy.

Moorhead had a successful first year.

That's a negative. You can't say he did a good job based on getting 8 wins without comparing it to what a likely other hire would have done. Our schedule was set up to where we had basically 6 games where our talent would have made it hard to lose. One game where our talent made it almost impossible to win, one game where it would have been hard, and then 4 you could say were reasonably close talent wise. So basically he split the games where talent was reasonably close and wasn't competitive for the game that would have been hard to win. It's a little worse than that if you look at the fact that his side of the ball made us not competitive in those two losses and well as didn't give us a chance against LSU. In the two we did win, we put up 23 while holding the other team to 9, and 28 while holding the other team to 13, both pretty solid compared to how other SEC teams scored against them.

Moorhead had an ok first year. It's hard to say what our defense would have looked like without Shoop, but he probably did within a game better or worse than say the handful of other potential hires would have done. He looks better from the fact that he had our offense where it could destroy weak teams. It looks worse that it was non-existent in our four regular season losses. It looks worse that he was incapable of adjusting against UK. It looks better that he did something different against Auburn.

The way his offense did against weak defenses was a very good sign. That will hopefully put a pretty high floor underneath us. I'm not bothered by him not being able to score against Bama. You're just not going to score against good defenses that are playing well when you have basically zero legit SEC WRs. I'm bothered by the fact that he couldn't put in a couple of packages to get us some minimal production against UK and UF, which is all it would have taken on offense and which our running game talent was good enough to do. I'm pleased that he's recruiting at a level that it looks like will maintain or improve our talent (well, probably not to the point of having 3 1st rounders again, but overall, should be good). I'm worried that the one thing he really needed to do, which is bring in an impact WR didn't happen.

I think he will be solid to good if we give him time to get some pieces here. I don't think people are going to be happy with the performance next year and probably the year after that, unless we find an impact WR ready to play in 2020.

[Tbonewannabe]

do the things that Trace McSorley did, and then found out very quickly that Nick Fitzgerald was very, very limited. He was limited in terms of the ability to process how quickly things went through his head and the clock went off, the ability to throw the ball down the field consistently and accurately.

This quote by Tom Luginbill is pretty much everything we saw last year. The only question is if one of the QBs on campus can run the offense that Moorhead wants to run or if he has to be better at adapting.

[ShotgunDawg]

I absolutely hate quotes from anonymous people.

I like them. I'd rather hear people's true thoughts than not.

[msstate7]

I like them. I'd rather hear people's true thoughts than not.

I think they're made up half the time (I.e. athlon's coach comments).

[confucius say]

I think they're made up half the time (I.e. athlon's coach comments).

That's why I think it depends on whether you trust the author of the article. I trust sammon

[ShotgunDawg]

I think they're made up half the time (I.e. athlon's coach comments).

Sure I guess. Not sure how we would know that

[DancingRabbit]

I like them. I'd rather hear people's true thoughts than not.

There's no guarantee people are 100% honest, even when given anonymity. People may be motivated to promote a certain idea or agenda without having it attached to them.

You're probably right for the most part.

The degree to which I believe anonymous quotes hinges on the credibility of the reporter putting them out, and whether there's a hint of an agenda by the reporter. If I think the reporter is honest and unbiased, then I'm likely to believe anonymous sources offered up.

[Tbonewannabe]

That's a negative. You can't say he did a good job based on getting 8 wins without comparing it to what a likely other hire would have done. Our schedule was set up to where we had basically 6 games where our talent would have made it hard to lose. One game where our talent made it almost impossible to win, one game where it would have been hard, and then 4 you could say were reasonably close talent wise. So basically he split the games where talent was reasonably close and wasn't competitive for the game that would have been hard to win. It's a little worse than that if you look at the fact that his side of the ball made us not competitive in those two losses and well as didn't give us a chance against LSU. In the two we did win, we put up 23 while holding the other team to 9, and 28 while holding the other team to 13, both pretty solid compared to how other SEC teams scored against them.

Moorhead had an ok first year. It's hard to say what our defense would have looked like without Shoop, but he probably did within a game better or worse than say the handful of other potential hires would have done. He looks better from the fact that he had our offense where it could destroy weak teams. It looks worse that it was non-existent in our four regular season losses. It looks worse that he was incapable of adjusting against UK. It looks better that he did something different against Auburn.

The way his offense did against weak defenses was a very good sign. That will hopefully put a pretty high floor underneath us. I'm not bothered by him not being able to score against Bama. You're just not going to score against good defenses that are playing well when you have basically zero legit SEC WRs. I'm bothered by the fact that he couldn't put in a couple of packages to get us some minimal production against UK and UF, which is all it would have taken on offense and which our running game talent was good enough to do. I'm pleased that he's recruiting at a level that it looks like will maintain or improve our talent (well, probably not to the point of having 3 1st rounders again, but overall, should be good). I'm worried that the one thing he really needed to do, which is bring in an impact WR didn't happen.

I think he will be solid to good if we give him time to get some pieces here. I don't think people are going to be happy with the performance next year and probably the year after that, unless we find an impact WR ready to play in 2020.

Moorhead did a great job hiring defensive coaches, has done a very good job recruiting, and did a good job on offense in 8-9 games (Iowa is a toss up since we should have won that game other than a WR drop turning into a Int and a blown coverage TD).

Moorhead did a shit job adjusting in the UK, UF, LSU, and Bama games on offense.

[confucius say]

Moorhead did a great job hiring defensive coaches, has done a very good job recruiting, and did a good job on offense in 8-9 games (Iowa is a toss up since we should have won that game other than a WR drop turning into a Int and a blown coverage TD).

Moorhead did a shit job adjusting in the UK, UF, LSU, and Bama games on offense.

Fair.

Also worth noting those were prob the 4 best defenses we faced and 3 were on the road.

[ShotgunDawg]

I actually liked the article.

The anonymous quote didn't bother me because whoever said it is mostly right.

I obviously have deep concerns about Moorhead, but I would say that fixing offenses is what his career is built on & I honestly don't see any reason why it can't happen here. This year will tell us an awful lot about the type of coach we hired.

I'm eyeing that road trip to Tennessee. That's a game that, if Moorhead is the right guy, he will win. Our talent & Tennessee's are close enough that coaching will matter as to the outcome & there is absolutely no way we should settle for having a coach that is worse that Pruitt.

[ShotgunDawg]

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mississippi-state-football/keytaon-thompson-tom-luginbill-bulldogs-offense-improvement-nick-fitzgerald-2019/

Another interesting read -- transcribing much of an interview with Tom Luginbill, who called our games 3 times last year. Apparently, he and McElroy thought we might need to change QBs after the first game that they saw us (which I'm pretty sure was Florida). A lot of knowledgeable people are convinced that Moorhead's fine but it takes a certain type of offensive coach to win with Fitz. I'm willing to wait out the fall before I jump off the ledge.

I agree with this.

I think most people's problem with Moorhead is that they think all he needed to do was run Mullen's offense & we would've been fine. Problem is, he doesn't know Mullen's offense

[FriarsPoint]

do the things that Trace McSorley did, and then found out very quickly that Nick Fitzgerald was very, very limited. He was limited in terms of the ability to process how quickly things went through his head and the clock went off, the ability to throw the ball down the field consistently and accurately.

This quote by Tom Luginbill is pretty much everything we saw last year. The only question is if one of the QBs on campus can run the offense that Moorhead wants to run or if he has to be better at adapting.

He has to be better at adapting. That is the huge red flag that went up last year. Luginbill’s quote is a surprise to no one
that followed things closely the last four years. The surprise is the coaching staff couldn’t see a mile away what everybody else could. Yet he kept trying to beat a square peg into a round hole.

[Johnson85]

Moorhead did a great job hiring defensive coaches, has done a very good job recruiting, and did a good job on offense in 8-9 games (Iowa is a toss up since we should have won that game other than a WR drop turning into a Int and a blown coverage TD).

Moorhead did a shit job adjusting in the UK, UF, LSU, and Bama games on offense.

All of that is fair. But while it's encouraging going forward that his offense worked against weak defenses, our defense and running game had enough talent that just about any coach would have won 6 of those games. So looking at just this year, in the 5 games coaching could reasonably make a difference good or bad, his side of the ball was completely inept in three of them. Minimal competency moves the needles in two of those.

So his performance gives reasons to feel optimistic about the future, but that doesn't change the fact that this year was not a good job by him, especially if you are looking judging by wins and losses.

[ShotgunDawg]

Moorhead did a great job hiring defensive coaches, has done a very good job recruiting, and did a good job on offense in 8-9 games (Iowa is a toss up since we should have won that game other than a WR drop turning into a Int and a blown coverage TD).

Moorhead did a shit job adjusting in the UK, UF, LSU, and Bama games on offense.

Why does everyone keep saying that he did a great job recruiting?

Is there evidence of this somewhere that I'm unaware of?

[confucius say]

I actually liked the article.

The anonymous quote didn't bother me because whoever said it is mostly right.

I obviously have deep concerns about Moorhead, but I would say that fixing offenses is what his career is built on & I honestly don't see any reason why it can't happen here. This year will tell us an awful lot about the type of coach we hired.

I'm eyeing that road trip to Tennessee. That's a game that, if Moorhead is the right guy, he will win. Our talent & Tennessee's are close enough that coaching will matter as to the outcome & there is absolutely no way we should settle for having a coach that is worse that Pruitt.

Why this year? I think you have to give him time to get his qb who can run his system ready.

He took over an offensive roster that was built to run a very niche, specific type of offense. Our skill guys were the worst in the conference for what joe wants to do (stretch you vertically).

[deadheaddawg]

I absolutely hate quotes from anonymous people.

Could you please provide your real full name? You should not hide behind this login

[ShotgunDawg]

Why this year? I think you have to give him time to get his qb who can run his system ready.

He took over an offensive roster that was built to run a very niche, specific type of offense. Our skill guys were the worst in the conference for what joe wants to do (stretch you vertically).

I get what you're saying but good offensive coaches usually turn things around in year 2. Constantly saying they don't have the right QB yet just more often than not leads to a Croom situation where a guy runs a program into the ground over 5 years.

You just simply can't give it that long. If he can't get things headed in the right direction this year, then his offense is extremely too rigid & isn't creative enough

[msstate7]

Could you please provide your real full name? You should not hide behind this login

Nice.

If the Atlantic uses me as a source, I'll give it then

[confucius say]

I agree with this.

I think most people's problem with Moorhead is that they think all he needed to do was run Mullen's offense & we would've been fine. Problem is, he doesn't know Mullen's offense

Yep. Great point and what I've said all along. Coaches can adapt somewhat and put some plays in to cater to certain strengths, but it is a myth that any coach just comes in and completely changes his system to fit his personnel.

[Political Hack]

An assistant said that about the 72' Dolphins?

What a pansy. Had arguably the most talented defense in the country and he's bitching about high expectations... in the SEC. That's Croomesque. Blaming the talent or the players for a lack of adjustments and creativity.

I was incredibly impressed with how the staff handled everything when they were hired, but it's been a slow role downhill since. They'd better pick up some steam quickly or the fan base will derail on them. I've been back and forth on Joe and tried to withhold judgement until he has at least two years under his belt, but I'm not seeing anything that's making me think we're going to be a contender for the SEC West any time soon.

[Coach34]

Bottom line, Moorhead did a good job.

Some may not want to hear this, but an 8 win season is a good season. Any way you slice it.


9-4 in 2017
3 1st round picks and a 6th round pick on D, plus 4 signed as a FA returning on D

Offense had the top 2 QB's returning- one the SEC all-time leading rusher who completed 55.6% of his passes in 2017
Top 7 rushers returning- including a 1,000 yard back
8 guys returning that caught passes in 2017
4 starters returning on the OL

17 starters returning overall

Went 8-5

I'll repeat it again- we made the necessary offensive changes vs Auburn after the Kentucky/Fla debacles to win with over 400 yards of offense. Auburn finished 4th in the SEC in scoring D. And we never did it again- why? Because we decided we would rather lose running our offense as opposed to what was best for the 2018 team.

What about all that screams "good job"?

[KOdawg1]

Here we go again..

New thread, same discussion. Rinse, repeat

[Political Hack]

Why this year? I think you have to give him time to get his qb who can run his system ready.

He took over an offensive roster that was built to run a very niche, specific type of offense. Our skill guys were the worst in the conference for what joe wants to do (stretch you vertically).

If you go back and look at the preseason discussions from last year I said our success was going to depend on whether Fitz could throw the deep ball. If you can't hit that 9 down the sidelines against man up coverage the offense doesn't work.

[confucius say]

Why does everyone keep saying that he did a great job recruiting?

Is there evidence of this somewhere that I'm unaware of?

Only thing I could see is top 20 class in 2019 as far as average ranking per signee.

[Tbonewannabe]

Why does everyone keep saying that he did a great job recruiting?

Is there evidence of this somewhere that I'm unaware of?

I would say having one of the highest rated classes in the last 15 or so years is pretty good evidence. It isn't like Cross or Pickering was some commitments he held onto. He got those guys over pretty much some of the best programs in the country. We are also setting up this year having another good class. Mullen only had 1 or 2 classes in his 9 years that would compare to Moorhead's first class.

[TrapGame]

Here we go again..

New thread, same discussion. Rinse, repeat

Same shit, different thread.

[ShotgunDawg]

Only thing I could see is top 20 class in 2019 as far as average ranking per signee.

But that's because he didn't sign enough players. If he would've signed a full 25, the average would have gone down

[ShotgunDawg]

I would say having one of the highest rated classes in the last 15 or so years is pretty good evidence. It isn't like Cross or Pickering was some commitments he held onto. He got those guys over pretty much some of the best programs in the country. We are also setting up this year having another good class. Mullen only had 1 or 2 classes in his 9 years that would compare to Moorhead's first class.

He had 18 in-state 4 stars to work with & didn't even sign a full class while finishing 7th in the West in the recruiting rankings.

Please for goodness sakes I wish some of you would raise expectations

[Tbonewannabe]

9-4 in 2017
3 1st round picks and a 6th round pick on D, plus 4 signed as a FA returning on D

Offense had the top 2 QB's returning- one the SEC all-time leading rusher who completed 55.6% of his passes in 2017
Top 7 rushers returning- including a 1,000 yard back
8 guys returning that caught passes in 2017
4 starters returning on the OL

17 starters returning overall

Went 8-5

I'll repeat it again- we made the necessary offensive changes vs Auburn after the Kentucky/Fla debacles to win with over 400 yards of offense. Auburn finished 4th in the SEC in scoring D. And we never did it again- why? Because we decided we would rather lose running our offense as opposed to what was best for the 2018 team.

What about all that screams "good job"?

I think Fitz not actually running the offense until August was too much for him to overcome. The guy froze on throwing a flea flicker when the #1 option was open by around 20 yards. The play actually worked to perfection but Fitz doesn't even throw the pass. There was numerous plays like that throughout the year and the only thing Moorhead could have done to fix those is replace the QB with a guy who should be a redshirt freshman.

[BeardoMSU]

But that's because he didn't sign enough players. If he would've signed a full 25, the average would have gone down

Arguably our best O-line class ever, and a very solid D-line class...

[DancingRabbit]

Why does everyone keep saying that he did a great job recruiting?

Is there evidence of this somewhere that I'm unaware of?

If you read more closely, he said "great job hiring defensive coaches, has done a very good job recruiting". I think you're nitpicking if you jump on a post for that.

[Tbonewannabe]

He had 18 in-state 4 stars to work with & didn't even sign a full class while finishing 7th in the West in the recruiting rankings.

Please for goodness sakes I wish some of you would raise expectations

So you think Mullen signs a better class? Mullen had one year that was better than Moorhead's first year. Do you think Mullen would have pulled the recruits Ole Miss bought? Would he have gotten the guys that signed with Auburn, Bama, LSU, or UGA?

Hell, I don't know how many times Mullen even had a full 85 on scholarship in 9 years.

[RezDog7]

After reading thread after thread like this, I'm convicted we should fire Moorehead and hire C34. He was offensive assistant COY or something like that and will surely lead us to wins over Bama and LSU.

[Tbonewannabe]

After reading thread after thread like this, I'm convicted we should fire Moorehead and hire C34. He was offensive assistant COY or something like that and will surely lead us to wins over Bama and LSU.

Just don't hire Chip Kelly because he didn't improve UCLA enough.

[RezDog7]

I think some of our fans have made up their mind unfortunately. I'm going the opposite way. I'll support MSU and our coach until there is a reason not to. Giving up on him for only winning 8 games is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, how many times has MSU won 8 games in the history of the program. Stop acting like your Bama or OM and give the dude another year two.

[bluelightstar]

I think some of our fans have made up their mind unfortunately. I'm going the opposite way. I'll support MSU and our coach until there is a reason not to. Giving up on him for only winning 8 games is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, how many times has MSU won 8 games in the history of the program. Stop acting like your Bama or OM and give the dude another year two.

???

[confucius say]

But that's because he didn't sign enough players. If he would've signed a full 25, the average would have gone down

Depends on who he would have signed, no?

And even so, signing 4 more mid to high three stars to get to 25 would have increased the ranking from 24 to 20 anyway.

All that said, recruitingbrankings outside the top 150 players are notoriously iffy, at best.

[Liverpooldawg]

https://theathletic.com/958264/2019/05/02/joe-moorhead-mississippi-state-year-1-lessons-sec-coach/

Interesting read. A few points:

1. Taking a larger role in the offense with Getsy's departure
2. Thought some players had success doing things a certain way and maybe were "resistant" (my words, not his) to some different offensive things.
3. Season was overall a success

Quote in there from an unidentified staffer; "it was made out like we inherited the '72 Dolphins"

The 72 Dolphin comment was spot on. We were very good on defense but the offensive talent was not nearly as strong. Many had very unrealistic expectations going in.

[Pipedream]

2 things to point out in this discussion:
1. The "72 Dolphins" quote, no matter who actually said it, is parroting off of something Joe said himself in a February Q&A with David Murray of 247. He's the one instilling that horse shit mindset.
2. Mullen recruited elite MS players better than Moorhead to this point if you go off the % of blue chips signed. I do agree that Moorhead has been more successful out of state. Overall he's been, at best, on par with our late stage Mullen recruiting profile.

[RezDog7]

???

Bama - real expectations and attainable goals
OM - real expectations with unattainable goals

[confucius say]

I still say joe will be as successful as dan was here, which was pretty damn good. And I think his ceiling is slightly higher

[RezDog7]

What's crazy to me is we only hear about the bad offensive games, not the good wins against Auburn and A&M. I'm willing to bet that A&M will be in contention to win the west this year.

[smootness]

An assistant said that about the 72' Dolphins?

What a pansy. Had arguably the most talented defense in the country and he's bitching about high expectations... in the SEC. That's Croomesque. Blaming the talent or the players for a lack of adjustments and creativity.

Yep. That quote is complete crap. Good coaches make no excuses and take responsibility, they don't question the talent level or people's expectations.

[smootness]

What's crazy to me is we only hear about the bad offensive games, not the good wins against Auburn and A&M. I'm willing to bet that A&M will be in contention to win the west this year.

I'm willing to give you that Auburn was a good game offensively. It's the kind of game we should have played all year. A&M, we put up 384 yards of offense. Pretty good, not great by any means. And the reason you hear about the bad offensive games is that there were several of them and they were really, really bad.

[RezDog7]

I'm willing to give you that Auburn was a good game offensively. It's the kind of game we should have played all year. A&M, we put up 384 yards of offense. Pretty good, not great by any means. And the reason you hear about the bad offensive games is that there were several of them and they were really, really bad.

Fair enough, but it's not like defenses didn't know what Fitz limitations were so they stacked the box and dared us to throw. Receivers were open. They were just over thrown or dropped the pass. I agree the running backs should've been more involved though. I'm hoping things improve this year, because if not, he will lose the entire fan base based on reading these message boards.

[DancingRabbit]

Yep. That quote is complete crap. Good coaches make no excuses and take responsibility, they don't question the talent level or people's expectations.

Yeah, I've never heard a good coach make excuses before.**

Tom Landry, maybe my all-time favorite coach and considered one of the best ever, made excuses after every loss. God bless him, but Tom never went into a game that he didn't have the perfect game-plan.

I've heard Saban do it. Dan was making excuses and trying to temper fan expectations in 2016 for sure. All coaches do it, but the key is if you're making excuses too much you're losing too much.

The fuss over this quote is like the fuss over the Outback rings - it shows you where people stand.

[Coach34]

Fair enough, but it's not like defenses didn't know what Fitz limitations were so they stacked the box and dared us to throw.

Yet in the 2nd half of the season he threw 12 TD's and 2 picks. Should have been 13/1 but Guidry had to bobble a pass that hit him in the chest and turn it into a pick

[Tbonewannabe]

Yet in the 2nd half of the season he threw 12 TD's and 2 picks. Should have been 13/1 but Guidry had to bobble a pass that hit him in the chest and turn it into a pick

So are you saying Fitz improved in the 2nd half of the season?

[R2Dawg]

Bottom line, Moorhead did a good job.

Some may not want to hear this, but an 8 win season is a good season. Any way you slice it.

I agree with anonymous. Defensively, we were hell. But we busted a coverage in the outback that cost us big time. So we weren?t perfect. Offensively our passing game was terrible for
Many reasons and not just on one guy.

Moorhead had a successful first year.

Agree we had a good season, not as good as it could have been but under all the newness, a successful first year. It would have taken some effort though to have not had a decent year with that D.

As with any organization that gets a new leader there is always difficulty in doing things different and the team figuring out their cheese (Book - who moved my cheese).

[smootness]

Yeah, I've never heard a good coach make excuses before.**

Tom Landry, maybe my all-time favorite coach and considered one of the best ever, made excuses after every loss. God bless him, but Tom never went into a game that he didn't have the perfect game-plan.

I've heard Saban do it. Dan was making excuses and trying to temper fan expectations in 2016 for sure. All coaches do it, but the key is if you're making excuses too much you're losing too much.

The fuss over this quote is like the fuss over the Outback rings - it shows you where people stand.

I shouldn't have said 'make no excuses,' that was definitely an overexaggeration to make a point. But I do think there's a difference in trying to lower expectations or speaking in a moment of frustration and retroactively trying to play down the talent level you had because of your results.

Moorhead himself was playing up expectations, or at the very least doing nothing to play them down, prior to the season. He said typical new-coach things like, 'We want to win championships' and that kind of thing, but he also specifically said he wanted to be ranked high preseason and that no one would have higher expectations than the coaching staff. He said nothing about the talent level not being what people thought it was, he just said he welcomed the expectations. Now he tries to come after those who had high expectations saying, 'And I know there was a lot of outside expectation and perception that we were an amalgamation of the ’85 Bears and ’72 Dolphins!' - that was literally his quote to Murray 2 months ago. That is just a tool thing to say to try to downplay, in hindsight, the expectations and talent level of the team. Just crap. Great coaches simply don't say things like that.

[Jarius]

Outside of the Alabama game (where he still didn’t play great), Fitz mainly played trash defenses the second half of the year. That was the reason his stats were better. Texas A&M was his best game of the second half of the year and their pass D was really bad.

[R2Dawg]

I get what you're saying but good offensive coaches usually turn things around in year 2. Constantly saying they don't have the right QB yet just more often than not leads to a Croom situation where a guy runs a program into the ground over 5 years.

You just simply can't give it that long. If he can't get things headed in the right direction this year, then his offense is extremely too rigid & isn't creative enough

Agree, we can't have another Croom derail. We should see stark improvement in O this year or I'm concerned.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Yet in the 2nd half of the season he threw 12 TD's and 2 picks. Should have been 13/1 but Guidry had to bobble a pass that hit him in the chest and turn it into a pick

Just stop... you're making stuff up without providing any context or facts to support it.

It seems like you've conveniently left out the LSU game in your "2nd half of the season" stats, even though they were our 7th opponent.

Also, you failed to mention he threw for a whopping 363 yds. combined against Bama, Ark, and Ole Miss. Two of those teams were the worst in the league on defense.

Take a look if you care to know the truth:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/nick-fitzgerald-2/gamelog/

[PMDawg]

9-4 in 2017
3 1st round picks and a 6th round pick on D, plus 4 signed as a FA returning on D

Offense had the top 2 QB's returning- one the SEC all-time leading rusher who completed 55.6% of his passes in 2017
Top 7 rushers returning- including a 1,000 yard back
8 guys returning that caught passes in 2017
4 starters returning on the OL

17 starters returning overall

Went 8-5

I'll repeat it again- we made the necessary offensive changes vs Auburn after the Kentucky/Fla debacles to win with over 400 yards of offense. Auburn finished 4th in the SEC in scoring D. And we never did it again- why? Because we decided we would rather lose running our offense as opposed to what was best for the 2018 team.

What about all that screams "good job"?

This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

[confucius say]

What's crazy to me is we only hear about the bad offensive games, not the good wins against Auburn and A&M. I'm willing to bet that A&M will be in contention to win the west this year.

What is crazy to me is that Aggie over under win total in Vegas is 7.5. Ours is 8.

[DancingRabbit]

I shouldn't have said 'make no excuses,' that was definitely an overexaggeration to make a point. But I do think there's a difference in trying to lower expectations or speaking in a moment of frustration and retroactively trying to play down the talent level you had because of your results.

Moorhead himself was playing up expectations, or at the very least doing nothing to play them down, prior to the season. He said typical new-coach things like, 'We want to win championships' and that kind of thing, but he also specifically said he wanted to be ranked high preseason and that no one would have higher expectations than the coaching staff. He said nothing about the talent level not being what people thought it was, he just said he welcomed the expectations. Now he tries to come after those who had high expectations saying, 'And I know there was a lot of outside expectation and perception that we were an amalgamation of the ’85 Bears and ’72 Dolphins!' - that was literally his quote to Murray 2 months ago. That is just a tool thing to say to try to downplay, in hindsight, the expectations and talent level of the team. Just crap. Great coaches simply don't say things like that.

I think the tone and level of discontent annoyed Joe a few times. Whether he ever said a thing about Heismans or rings or the 85 has nothing to do with win totals or being able to find things to bitch about. If he had never said those 3 things the fans that don't like Joe would find something.

Color me skeptical, but I never bought into the Heisman and championship talk.

[Jarius]

What is crazy to me is that Aggie over under win total in Vegas is 7.5. Ours is 8.

Look at A&Ms schedule. They play Clemson, Georgia, and the SEC west. They will struggle to win 8. We play a bunch of nobodies in nonconference and get Kentucky & Tennessee. We have a better chance to win 8 than they do and they will have a better team than us.

[Coach34]

Just stop... you're making stuff up without providing any context or facts to support it.



I was completely factual in my post. When you have good facts- there is no need to make anything up.

A&M- 2/0
La Tech- 4/0
Bama- 0/0
UPig- 4/0
Mississippi- 1/0
Iowa- 1/2 (one being on Guidry)

That is not made up- complete fact

[msstate7]

Look at A&Ms schedule. They play Clemson, Georgia, and the SEC west. They will struggle to win 8. We play a bunch of nobodies in nonconference and get Kentucky & Tennessee. We have a better chance to win 8 than they do and they will have a better team than us.

Yep. aTm could be really good and still be 8-4

[MetEdDawg]

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

[Coach34]

This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

[msstate7]

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

Not me. I said 6-7 wins and I'll be ok this year. We aren't very good going into 2019

[BrunswickDawg]

Yep. aTm could be really good and still be 8-4

So your boy Jimbo gets a pass that you won't give Moorhead? And he is in year 2 not year 1.

[Tbonewannabe]

Yep. aTm could be really good and still be 8-4

I understand everyone's frustration with our offense in those tough games but you are basically giving Jimbo a pass when Moorhead did this exact same thing. We lost 4 games to teams in the top 12 with 3 of those on the road, any other time in MSU history and everyone would chalk that up to just a tough schedule.

The only loss outside the top 12 was Iowa and we win that game if Guidry makes just a routine catch that any college WR should make 99 times out of 100.

[Jarius]

I understand everyone's frustration with our offense in those tough games but you are basically giving Jimbo a pass when Moorhead did this exact same thing. We lost 4 games to teams in the top 12 with 3 of those on the road, any other time in MSU history and everyone would chalk that up to just a tough schedule.

The only loss outside the top 12 was Iowa and we win that game if Guidry makes just a routine catch that any college WR should make 99 times out of 100.


They are also giving Jethro up at Tennessee a pass. He inherited a top 20 recruiting roster, goes 5-7, and everyone is scared to death he is going to improve and beat us in Knoxville. Our coach gets held to a different standard than everyone else’s does on this board, and I was fighting mad at losing 5 games without roster.

[TrapGame]

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

Oh My God!!!

[TrapGame]

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

People love to bitch. It's really a national past time now.

[msstate7]

So your boy Jimbo gets a pass that you won't give Moorhead? And he is in year 2 not year 1.

He faces 3 playoff contenders (2 on the road) and LSU at tiger stadium. Our schedule was tough last year, but no where near this

[msstate7]

I understand everyone's frustration with our offense in those tough games but you are basically giving Jimbo a pass when Moorhead did this exact same thing. We lost 4 games to teams in the top 12 with 3 of those on the road, any other time in MSU history and everyone would chalk that up to just a tough schedule.

The only loss outside the top 12 was Iowa and we win that game if Guidry makes just a routine catch that any college WR should make 99 times out of 100.

They face the top 3 teams in the country, and LSU will be top 10

[msu15]

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

You are one stupid mother****er

[Scared_Hitless]

This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

Lets not factor in level of opponent at all and this post would make sense. 2017 1 Ranked win LSU. A bowl win vs a Peter Sirmon defense is the only difference in Record.

Now lets look at 2018 5 Losses LSU finished #6, KY finished #12, Bama #2, Iowa #25, FL #7 with a coach that knew everything about our Roster. Similar results with a much tougher Schedule. We are all disappointed but lets stop acting like we regressed horribly. Didn't happen, we were similar both years and lost to good defenses both years.

[PMDawg]

I think the tone and level of discontent annoyed Joe a few times. Whether he ever said a thing about Heismans or rings or the 85 has nothing to do with win totals or being able to find things to bitch about. If he had never said those 3 things the fans that don't like Joe would find something.

Color me skeptical, but I never bought into the Heisman and championship talk.

Not true for me. I never bought all that talk either. I thought those statements were setting himself up for ridicule any way.

And I'm not even that concerned with our record. 8 wins isn't terrible, and probably the best we could have hoped for was 10. There's just a lot of things that add up to my skepticism of him at this point, and last year's record is only one of them. And while I'm skeptical, I haven't given up on him. I hope he learned from last year and gets better this year. It wouldn't take a whole heck of a lot to change my mind on him - but so far, I haven't seen much to give me a positive feeling. The fact that he views last year as a success is a little disconcerting. Maybe he's just a positive guy, but I don't think that's something you would hear Saban, Dabo, Urban, Kirby, etc. say after the way last season unfolded.



Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

As someone who expects 6-6 +/-1 game, you won't hear me complain. I'll be completely satisfied with 7-5, and ecstatic with anything better. 6-6, I won't be mad, but it will just give me confirmation about how I feel about Joe.

[PMDawg]

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

lol. I won't go that far. He was horrid. But I completely believe that an average coach gets last year's squad 8 or 9 wins.

[Tbonewannabe]

They face the top 3 teams in the country, and LSU will be top 10

The teams we lost to on the road usually lose 1 or less per year at home. UK is pretty much the only team that is the outlier and they had the best team in the last 50 years that was one of the most experienced teams in the SEC with mostly senior starters. If you compare what aTm has recruited over the last 5 years to what MSU has recruited, aTm is a lot more talented on paper but for some reason Moorhead is held to a higher standard than Jimbo. You have said yourself that you think Jimbo is one of the top coaches in the country so why is the expectations for him next year less than Moorhead's from this year?

So comparing their schedule to ours last year:

@Clemson, @UGA, and @LSU - We lost to @Bama, @LSU, and @UK. aTm schedule is harder but honestly how often do you win against a top 10 team on the road? aTm is more than likely getting 3 losses there just like we did this year.

Bama at home - we lost to UF at home. Bama is definitely the tougher game but UF ended up #7 at the end of the year. We have won that type of game a handful of times in our history.

So if aTm somehow loses to Auburn or MSU at home then I guess Jimbo has failed miserably and should be fired according to some people on this board.

[BrunswickDawg]

He faces 3 playoff contenders (2 on the road) and LSU at tiger stadium. Our schedule was tough last year, but no where near this

At the time that we played them - #8 AU was a playoff contender and #5 LSU was a playoff contender. Now it didn't work out that way, but it is also true based on how "playoff contender" flows during the course of the season.
If UGA loses 2-3 would you still call them a contender (yes you would) - because they would have been in a legit position to make a run (as LSU or AU were mid-season last year).

As an aside - have you seen Clemson's schedule this fall? It may be one of the more ridiculously easy 12 games I've ever seen for a title contender. They could miss the playoff completely if we have a season with 3-4 undefeated teams and 1-3 teams with strong schedules and only 1 loss.

[Johnson85]

Here's what will be hilarious. If we go 7-5, which many on here have said is best case next year, those same people are going to lose their shit when we go 7-5. God I can't believe we lost that game. Man Moorhead sucks. What a terrible game plan.

It's going to happen, so none of this matters. Unless we go 10-2 or better, our fan base is going to find a way for complain.

Most people saying 7-5 is the best case are basing that on Moorhead not being good. So if he gets to 7-5 (we will probably have six bad teams plus a UK that has taken a big step back at home, plus UT and Auburn who have supposedly recruited well enough to be good but could also implode), it won't be hypocritical for them to freak out about it.

That said, if we go 7-5, for most people it's going to depend on how we went 7-5 (just like this year, most people are more upset about how we went 8-5 than the actual record). If UT and Auburn are good next year, and we compete in every game except Bama and our offense generally looks competent except that we need a legit WR, and we go 7-5 by beating 6 bad teams plus UK, then I think people will be ok. Not thrilled, but ok. If UT and Auburn implode, and UK takes a major step back, and we scratch out seven wins with good defense and bad offense, and still manage to lose to two bad teams and not even compete against A&M, LSU, and Bama, people will (understandably) be freaking out about how bad a hire he might end up being.

I expect us to look pretty solid against the bad defenses on our schedule next year. I expect us to be smothered by Bama and probably LSU although I don't know what they have coming back. The question is going to be how we score against UT, Auburn, A&M, and UK.

[msstate7]

At the time that we played them - #8 AU was a playoff contender and #5 LSU was a playoff contender. Now it didn't work out that way, but it is also true based on how "playoff contender" flows during the course of the season.
If UGA loses 2-3 would you still call them a contender (yes you would) - because they would have been in a legit position to make a run (as LSU or AU were mid-season last year).

As an aside - have you seen Clemson's schedule this fall? It may be one of the more ridiculously easy 12 games I've ever seen for a title contender. They could miss the playoff completely if we have a season with 3-4 undefeated teams and 1-3 teams with strong schedules and only 1 loss.

If Georgia loses 3 games in the regular season, they're a huge flop. They're better than everyone on their schedule

Clemson isn't gonna win a natty this year (lost way too much defense), but they're still better than all but 2 sec teams.

[Johnson85]

Croom could have won 8 last season for us

You must be under 25 and not actually remember the Croom years.

With Croom, we probably would have won OOC plus Um and Ark with much lower offensive scoring, but A&M and Auburn probably end up looking like UK. Defense would have kept us in it until a completely inept offense resulted in a worn down defense that gave up some scores late. Might could have picked a game back up with luck as far as defensive scoring goes, but it would have taken some incredible luck to get to 8 wins with him coaching.

[BrunswickDawg]

Most people saying 7-5 is the best case are basing that on Moorhead not being good. So if he gets to 7-5 (we will probably have six bad teams plus a UK that has taken a big step back at home, plus UT and Auburn who have supposedly recruited well enough to be good but could also implode), it won't be hypocritical for them to freak out about it.

That said, if we go 7-5, for most people it's going to depend on how we went 7-5 (just like this year, most people are more upset about how we went 8-5 than the actual record). If UT and Auburn are good next year, and we compete in every game except Bama and our offense generally looks competent except that we need a legit WR, and we go 7-5 by beating 6 bad teams plus UK, then I think people will be ok. Not thrilled, but ok. If UT and Auburn implode, and UK takes a major step back, and we scratch out seven wins with good defense and bad offense, and still manage to lose to two bad teams and not even compete against A&M, LSU, and Bama, people will (understandably) be freaking out about how bad a hire he might end up being.

I expect us to look pretty solid against the bad defenses on our schedule next year. I expect us to be smothered by Bama and probably LSU although I don't know what they have coming back. The question is going to be how we score against UT, Auburn, A&M, and UK.

And if UT, AU, and T&M aren't great, and UK regresses, and Arky and OM stay the same - and we win them all people won't be satisfied because "it was a down year in the SEC"

[msstate7]

The teams we lost to on the road usually lose 1 or less per year at home. UK is pretty much the only team that is the outlier and they had the best team in the last 50 years that was one of the most experienced teams in the SEC with mostly senior starters. If you compare what aTm has recruited over the last 5 years to what MSU has recruited, aTm is a lot more talented on paper but for some reason Moorhead is held to a higher standard than Jimbo. You have said yourself that you think Jimbo is one of the top coaches in the country so why is the expectations for him next year less than Moorhead's from this year?

So comparing their schedule to ours last year:

@Clemson, @UGA, and @LSU - We lost to @Bama, @LSU, and @UK. aTm schedule is harder but honestly how often do you win against a top 10 team on the road? aTm is more than likely getting 3 losses there just like we did this year.

Bama at home - we lost to UF at home. Bama is definitely the tougher game but UF ended up #7 at the end of the year. We have won that type of game a handful of times in our history.

So if aTm somehow loses to Auburn or MSU at home then I guess Jimbo has failed miserably and should be fired according to some people on this board.

If jimbo loses to state at home, he's not as good as I thought

[BiscuitEater]

I absolutely hate quotes from anonymous people.

Agree, I rarely even consider ANY anonymous quote. Anyone that can't be quoted .. can't be trusted. Period

[BrunswickDawg]

If jimbo loses to state at home, he's not as good as I thought

<Ron Howard narrator voice> He's not.

[smootness]

I think the tone and level of discontent annoyed Joe a few times. Whether he ever said a thing about Heismans or rings or the 85 has nothing to do with win totals or being able to find things to bitch about. If he had never said those 3 things the fans that don't like Joe would find something.

Color me skeptical, but I never bought into the Heisman and championship talk.

I don't care about the Heisman or championship talk. Every new coach does that. But he could have emphasized the long-term over the short-term, or at least hedged on some, and he didn't. Which is fine. But if you're going to do that, don't come back later and change your tone.

And the reality is, we won't be any closer to the 85 Bears or 72 Dolphins in terms of talent at least for a while. So if he's taking some kind of shot at our talent last year, what is his plan going forward? Is 8 wins our ceiling? If not, then don't even mention it. Just say we're going to build off last year and do better.

It may be true we weren't the most talented team in football history last year. But the fact is, it was an extremely talented roster relative to the history of Mississippi State. So unless he improves the recruiting leaps and bounds, he's basically admitting he won't do much better at State. That's why it's a crap quote.

[RezDog7]

This all day.

Take every Power 64 coach from 2018. How many wouldn't have won at least 8 games with our roster? 20? 10? I don't know, but I imagine 8-5 would be somewhere around the mean. Which means we had a very average coach last year.

Which coach could MSU have hired would have won more games since it's so easy to win with all that offensive talent we had.

[Tbonewannabe]

You must be under 25 and not actually remember the Croom years.

With Croom, we probably would have won OOC plus Um and Ark with much lower offensive scoring, but A&M and Auburn probably end up looking like UK. Defense would have kept us in it until a completely inept offense resulted in a worn down defense that gave up some scores late. Might could have picked a game back up with luck as far as defensive scoring goes, but it would have taken some incredible luck to get to 8 wins with him coaching.

Croom wouldn't have won @KSU. KSU ended up having one of the top defenses in the Big 12, not great but not a gimme. These entire Croom comparisons to Moorhead might as well compare Mullen to Saban. I don't know how we didn't win a National Title in 2014 so Mullen must suck.

[RezDog7]

I was completely factual in my post. When you have good facts- there is no need to make anything up.

A&M- 2/0
La Tech- 4/0
Bama- 0/0
UPig- 4/0
Mississippi- 1/0
Iowa- 1/2 (one being on Guidry)

That is not made up- complete fact

So one good defense, ok. And that wasn't on Guidry, the pass wasn't even intended for him.

[Tbonewannabe]

If jimbo loses to state at home, he's not as good as I thought

Why does that matter? He already lost last year. You expected us to win on the road against top 12 teams so why wouldn't Jimbo this year?

[Gutter Cobreh]

So one good defense, ok. And that wasn't on Guidry, the pass wasn't even intended for him.

Here is a game - guess 34's response to your post - I'll go with: "I never said it was intended for Guidry, yet simply it bounced off his chest. So technically, I'm still right!"

He knows he is making up stuff just to stir the pot, which I for some reason enjoy... He knows he is leaving out key information. In the games he is listing (which leaves out LSU) - Fitz threw the ball 134 times and completed 76 of them for a whopping 999 yds. (7 yds. per attempt).

[bulldawg28]

If Georgia loses 3 games in the regular season, they're a huge flop. They're better than everyone on their schedule

Clemson isn't gonna win a natty this year (lost way too much defense), but they're still better than all but 2 sec teams.

Who in the SEC can beat Clemson? Bama can't/won't I have no idea who this other team is other than maybe Florida.

[HoopsDawg]

Guys, some of you don't seem to understand how good our defense was. We may never see that again. We don't get many 5 star DT's like Simmons especially at the same time we have an NFL edge rusher, NFL LB's, and NFL DB's. And it was a veteran group coupled with a solid D-coordinator.

The Croom comment is not a reach. As I said all year, we could have run the T formation and won 9 games like my pee wee team did.

[Tbonewannabe]

Guys, some of you don't seem to understand how good our defense was. We may never see that again. We don't get many 5 star DT's like Simmons especially at the same time we have an NFL edge rusher, NFL LB's, and NFL DB's. And it was a veteran group coupled with a solid D-coordinator.

The Croom comment is not a reach. As I said all year, we could have run the T formation and won 9 games like my pee wee team did.
2011 did except Fletcher Cox wasn't a 5 star but I would say he was just as good. People saying we will never get that kind of talent just don't pay attention to how many NFL players we have starting in the NFL in the last decade.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

2011 did except Fletcher Cox wasn't a 5 star but I would say he was just as good. People saying we will never get that kind of talent just don't pay attention to how many NFL players we have starting in the NFL in the last decade.

DT: Cox and Boyd vs Simmons and Thomas is a draw, but the depth behind them goes to '18.

DE: Eulls and Ferguson vs Sweat and Green... not even close to the same ballpark, and 18's backups are way better too.

LB: Wells and Wilson and Lawrence vs Gay and Thompson and Lewis... I think Gay and Thompson will be first 3 round picks and Lewis will get picked up by someone. So '18 has more talent imo

CB: Banks and Broomfield vs Dantzler and Peters and Cole/Landrews. '11 wins but not by much (Dantzler is a stud and the others were solid).

S: Whitley and Mitchell and Bonner vs Abram and McLaurin and Rayford. '18 wins each of these matchups if you go in order.

So I'd say '11 matches up to '18 at DT, LB, and CB, but has no clear advantage in any of them and has a MASSIVE talent deficit at DE. '18 had 3 first rounders, a DE taken late, and has at least 3 more starters that will get taken in the first 3 rounds this year... '11 had what, Cox and Mitchell get taken and then Boyd and Banks the year after that? There's clearly a ton more talent on the '18 team

[bulldawg28]

Guys, some of you don't seem to understand how good our defense was. We may never see that again. We don't get many 5 star DT's like Simmons especially at the same time we have an NFL edge rusher, NFL LB's, and NFL DB's. And it was a veteran group coupled with a solid D-coordinator.

The Croom comment is not a reach. As I said all year, we could have run the T formation and won 9 games like my pee wee team did.

1999 defense was better imo. Every level had NFL talent and it was deeper. That defense just didn't get the TV exposure

[HoopsDawg]

1999 defense was better imo. Every level had NFL talent and it was deeper. That defense just didn't get the TV exposure

I loved the 99 defense. And they went 10-2.

[Poindexter]

He has to be better at adapting. That is the huge red flag that went up last year. Luginbill?s quote is a surprise to no one
that followed things closely the last four years. The surprise is the coaching staff couldn?t see a mile away what everybody else could. Yet he kept trying to beat a square peg into a round hole.

Nonsense. There were only 7 teams I think who ran the ball a greater percentage of time than Miss. State last year. There is no amount of "adapting" to satisfy some of our idiot fans. RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!!

Deal with facts instead of warped perception and see what the world looks like.

[msstate7]

Nonsense. There were only 7 teams I think who ran the ball a greater percentage of time than Miss. State last year. There is no amount of "adapting" to satisfy some of our idiot fans. RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!!

Deal with facts instead of warped perception and see what the world looks like.

It isn't just runs most of us wanted... we wanted rb carries. Here's rb carry % for the last 2 years:

2018 - 243 rb runs/ 514 total team runs = .473
2017 - 377 rb runs / 634 total team runs = .595

In 2017, Aeris had 236 rushes... that's 7 less than all the RBs combined in 2018

[Tbonewannabe]

It isn't just runs most of us wanted... we wanted rb carries. Here's rb carry % for the last 2 years:

2018 - 243 rb runs/ 514 total team runs = .473
2017 - 377 rb runs / 634 total team runs = .595

In 2017, Aeris had 236 rushes... that's 7 less than all the RBs combined in 2018

It boils down to this : Fitz either wasn't comfortable making the read or just decided to keep the ball. Neither Moorhead or Mullen's offense has many direct hand offs to the RB. People bitching about the plays Moorhead ran, the exact same things could be said about our offense the last decade.

[Coach34]

It boils down to this : Fitz either wasn't comfortable making the read or just decided to keep the ball. Neither Moorhead or Mullen's offense has many direct hand offs to the RB. People bitching about the plays Moorhead ran, the exact same things could be said about our offense the last decade.

lol- seriously- nobody can really think this is true right???

We had 377 runs in 2017- do you really think Fitz read every one of those? Hayyyyyle no- there we alot of designed handoffs.

A good offensive coach gets the ball where he wants it and adjusts to his QB. Lane Kiffin is a great example. He coached Coker in 2015 and was successful. Then made a total switch with Hurts in 2016 as a true Freshman. Thats coaching. He adjusted to what he had. Their offense changed in those years.

Our coach refused to change our offense to fit the personnel. That is my complaint and what should worry the fanbase. Croom was the same way

[TUSK]

lol- seriously- nobody can really think this is true right???

We had 377 runs in 2017- do you really think Fitz read every one of those? Hayyyyyle no- there we alot of designed handoffs.

A good offensive coach gets the ball where he wants it and adjusts to his QB. Lane Kiffin is a great example. He coached Coker in 2015 and was successful. Then made a total switch with Hurts in 2016 as a true Freshman. Thats coaching. He adjusted to what he had. Their offense changed in those years.

Our coach refused to change our offense to fit the personnel. That is my complaint and what should worry the fanbase. Croom was the same way

I'm down with this.... I also think it's not mutually exclusive to what Tbone was sayin'....

Joe either overestimated the aptitude/IQ/talent of his team, or he's obstinate and/or dumb, himself.

Additionally, the 1999 defense (as a whole) would prison rape the 2018 version.

[DancingRabbit]

lol- seriously- nobody can really think this is true right???

We had 377 runs in 2017- do you really think Fitz read every one of those? Hayyyyyle no- there we alot of designed handoffs.

A good offensive coach gets the ball where he wants it and adjusts to his QB. Lane Kiffin is a great example. He coached Coker in 2015 and was successful. Then made a total switch with Hurts in 2016 as a true Freshman. Thats coaching. He adjusted to what he had. Their offense changed in those years.

Our coach refused to change our offense to fit the personnel. That is my complaint and what should worry the fanbase. Croom was the same way

Designed or option these are the rushing numbers for our running backs the last 4 years. I think this is regular season only, since someone on here deemed bowl results don't matter.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

A hundred more hand-offs for a hundred more yards and the same number of TDs. Talk amongst yourselves.

[confucius say]

DT: Cox and Boyd vs Simmons and Thomas is a draw, but the depth behind them goes to '18.

DE: Eulls and Ferguson vs Sweat and Green... not even close to the same ballpark, and 18's backups are way better too.

LB: Wells and Wilson and Lawrence vs Gay and Thompson and Lewis... I think Gay and Thompson will be first 3 round picks and Lewis will get picked up by someone. So '18 has more talent imo

CB: Banks and Broomfield vs Dantzler and Peters and Cole/Landrews. '11 wins but not by much (Dantzler is a stud and the others were solid).

S: Whitley and Mitchell and Bonner vs Abram and McLaurin and Rayford. '18 wins each of these matchups if you go in order.

So I'd say '11 matches up to '18 at DT, LB, and CB, but has no clear advantage in any of them and has a MASSIVE talent deficit at DE. '18 had 3 first rounders, a DE taken late, and has at least 3 more starters that will get taken in the first 3 rounds this year... '11 had what, Cox and Mitchell get taken and then Boyd and Banks the year after that? There's clearly a ton more talent on the '18 team

Just going to ignore slay on 11? The best cb on the planet right now

[Todd4State]

1999 defense was better imo. Every level had NFL talent and it was deeper. That defense just didn't get the TV exposure

I definitely liked the 1999 defense better.

My dream is to one day see a top flight MSU offense and MSU defense on the same team at the same time. Even MSU's very best teams I don't think can say that they had both. Maybe 1998 or 1980 were the closest to having both?

[Poindexter]

Designed or option these are the rushing numbers for our running backs the last 4 years. I think this is regular season only, since someone on here deemed bowl results don't matter.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

A hundred more hand-offs for a hundred more yards and the same number of TDs. Talk amongst yourselves.

They are not interested in facts. It is funny, really.

[Poindexter]

It isn't just runs most of us wanted... we wanted rb carries. Here's rb carry % for the last 2 years:

2018 - 243 rb runs/ 514 total team runs = .473
2017 - 377 rb runs / 634 total team runs = .595

In 2017, Aeris had 236 rushes... that's 7 less than all the RBs combined in 2018

I see.

The criticism has now moved from RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!! To RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL DIFFERENTLY, COACH!!! HE AINT ADAPTING PROPERLY!

[Tbonewannabe]

Designed or option these are the rushing numbers for our running backs the last 4 years. I think this is regular season only, since someone on here deemed bowl results don't matter.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

A hundred more hand-offs for a hundred more yards and the same number of TDs. Talk amongst yourselves.

We also ran less plays in 2018 so the percentage would be higher.

[HoopsDawg]

I'm down with this.... I also think it's not mutually exclusive to what Tbone was sayin'....

Joe either overestimated the aptitude/IQ/talent of his team, or he's obstinate and/or dumb, himself.



Or maybe his system isn't a good fit at MSU.

[BrunswickDawg]

I see.

The criticism has now moved from RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL, COACH!!! To RUN THE DANG BAWWWLLL DIFFERENTLY, COACH!!! HE AINT ADAPTING PROPERLY!

That's the thing - he did adapt.

At PSU, he had one of the best college RB of the past decade and ran his RBs -
'16 - 326 rb runs/540 total team runs = .603 for 2406 total rushing yards
'17 - 267 rb runs/451 total team runs = .592 for 2212 total rushing yards

Then he has the best running QB in SEC history and - I know this will be shocking - uses him basically as a top line running back.

[confucius say]

Or maybe his system isn't a good fit at MSU.

All about getting the right personnel. Primarily at qb. Can he get that here?

[Poindexter]

That's the thing - he did adapt.

At PSU, he had one of the best college RB of the past decade and ran his RBs -
'16 - 326 rb runs/540 total team runs = .603 for 2406 total rushing yards
'17 - 267 rb runs/451 total team runs = .592 for 2212 total rushing yards

Then he has the best running QB in SEC history and - I know this will be shocking - uses him basically as a top line running back.

Of course he adapted. It is our super genius fans who can't figure it out.

Just like they will bitch about Fitz carrying the BAWWWLLL 3 times from the 1 in the Outback Bowl, but nary a peep that on a critical 3rd & 2 in the 4th Qtr with about 4:00 minutes remaining it was Aries Williams not picking up the yardage. Selective memory.

[Johnson85]

Croom wouldn't have won @KSU. KSU ended up having one of the top defenses in the Big 12, not great but not a gimme. These entire Croom comparisons to Moorhead might as well compare Mullen to Saban. I don't know how we didn't win a National Title in 2014 so Mullen must suck.

He certainly would have been capable of losing that game, but our team this year was basically 2007 on steroids. Much better defense and better talent on offense, so it seems reasonably likely that we still would have pulled that game out, even if the score would have looked a lot different. Agree that comparing Croom to MOorhead is crazy, but our team was set up this year where 6 wins were pretty likely even with bad coaching.

[Tbonewannabe]

He certainly would have been capable of losing that game, but our team this year was basically 2007 on steroids. Much better defense and better talent on offense, so it seems reasonably likely that we still would have pulled that game out, even if the score would have looked a lot different. Agree that comparing Croom to MOorhead is crazy, but our team was set up this year where 6 wins were pretty likely even with bad coaching.

I would agree that Croom might have won 6 games but it is just as likely that Mullen didn't win more than 8. There are plenty of examples of Mullen's offense shitting the bed against top 25 defenses on the road. This whole exercise of shitting on the current coaching staff is doing nothing but bring negativity into the program. There is plenty of time to show you are pissed off if Moorhead loses any OOC games or UM, Ark, or UK this year.

I think UT is a push, I think we will have the better team but it is on the road so that has a way of leveling things. Looking back, Moorhead won the toss up games or the games that were slight upsets in AU and aTm but lost the toss up games in UK and UF.

Oddly enough, if our defense was just top 25 (better than almost every single Mullen defense) and the offense just lost those 4 games 23-20 then most people are 17ing happy. Not many people expected our secondary to go from giving up big plays to being shut down (which was the difference in the improvement).

[smootness]

Just going to ignore slay on 11? The best cb on the planet right now

Slay wasn't a starter that year.

[Johnson85]

I would agree that Croom might have won 6 games but it is just as likely that Mullen didn't win more than 8. There are plenty of examples of Mullen's offense shitting the bed against top 25 defenses on the road. This whole exercise of shitting on the current coaching staff is doing nothing but bring negativity into the program. There is plenty of time to show you are pissed off if Moorhead loses any OOC games or UM, Ark, or UK this year. Not really. Our offense this year was going to be limited no matter who the coach was. Just like 2017, we had enough raw talent in the running game that we could beat mediocre defenses solidly, grind out points against good defenses, and be completely shut down by elite defenses where you have to have a little bit of a passing threat. With Mullen, we had six locked up, and we might have ended up dropping Auburn or A&M, but we would have been able to move the ball some against all four "toss-ups" and also LSU, so it seems likely we would have had a net gain, especially considering how minimal production we needed for UK and Florida. Certainly no guarantee, but if he didn't win 9 regular season games, it would have been because Grantham was a bid downgrade from Shoop.


I think UT is a push, I think we will have the better team but it is on the road so that has a way of leveling things. Looking back, Moorhead won the toss up games or the games that were slight upsets in AU and aTm but lost the toss up games in UK and UF.

Oddly enough, if our defense was just top 25 (better than almost every single Mullen defense) and the offense just lost those 4 games 23-20 then most people are 17ing happy. Not many people expected our secondary to go from giving up big plays to being shut down (which was the difference in the improvement).

I don't know if they'd have been happy, but they'd be less concerned. Struggling with a new offense is fine. Looking completely incompetent is worrying. Also, it's a lot easier to recover from making a bad DC hire than it is to recover from making a bad HC hire. If shoop hadn't turned out well, we could have gotten rid of him after 2019 (or even this year; Mullen basically encouraged Torbush to look after year 1). If Moorhead turns out badly, it's much more painful to get to and through a transition.

[confucius say]

Slay wasn't a starter that year.

I know. But he was using depth at positions as a determining factor.

Also, holy crap. We started broom over slay.