8-5

[CadaverDawg]

3 first rounders

Smh

Sorry, I just can't help but to think about it

[MetEdDawg]

Well none of them played offense so....

Next time we have an offensive skill player or QB drafted in the 1st 2 days of the draft will be the first time in a very very long time. Our offensive skill talent is among the bottom of the SEC

[BeardoMSU]

3 first rounders

Smh

Sorry, I just can't help but to think about it

All 3 are defensive players, and we had the #1 D in the country. They did their job for sure.

[Dawgology]

Well none of them played offense so....

None of these guys played on offense and we did finish with one of the top defenses in the nation. I?m just as disappointed as you are about 8-5 but this draft just indicates our defense was coached well and performed up to the standard of their talent.

[BeardoMSU]

None of these guys played on offense and we did finish with one of the top defenses in the nation. I?m just as disappointed as you are about 8-5 but this draft just indicates our defense was coached well and performed up to the standard of their talent.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dawgology again.

[CadaverDawg]

None of these guys played on offense and we did finish with one of the top defenses in the nation. I?m just as disappointed as you are about 8-5 but this draft just indicates our defense was coached well and performed up to the standard of their talent.

And that our "offensive guru" is not one.

[bluelightstar]

Moorhead is a loser. You should bumble your way into a better record than this with a defense like that

[TaleofTwoDogs]

i agree with everybody, these guys are defensive players and although people say defense wins championships you still have to score points to win. If we had 3 offensive players drafted in the first round then I think we all would be pissed beyond all reason.

[bluelightstar]

And that our "offensive guru" is not one.

Exactly. The 2011 LSU offense was hot garbage but les couldn’t screw up that defense

[CadaverDawg]

Moorhead is a loser. You should bumble your way into a better record than this with a defense like that

That's one way of saying it, haha

[RezDog7]

Moorhead is a loser. You should bumble your way into a better record than this with a defense like that

I bet you're the same guy that says talent wins Championship's too. Stop being a moron and blaming Moorhead for only winning 8 games. Maybe Mullen should have tried harder to recruit some offensive playmakers.

[MetEdDawg]

Moorhead is a loser. You should bumble your way into a better record than this with a defense like that

Yeah because Simmons, Sweat, and Abrams took snaps at QB.

Sometimes I think this fan base is dumb on purpose. Like it's something we have to do. How are we still arguing that defense wins ball games when you have below average talent on offense? Fitz can't throw, WRs were one of the worst groups in the conference. Like it still baffles me that people think our defense is responsible for scoring points in games.

[CadaverDawg]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

[DancingRabbit]

Dan won 8 games with basically the same roster. Lost to OM at home.

[CadaverDawg]

Wow, lots of JoMo defenders and excuse makers in here. Most of you guys saying we had shitty offensive players were the same ones predicting 10-11 wins bc we had more talent on both sides of the ball than we have ever had.

Ok

[MetEdDawg]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

That RB isn't getting drafted. And if Guidry was eligible he wouldn't get drafted either. How many of those veteran OL get drafted? 1?

Y'all turned us into something we weren't. Our offense was terrible because we lacked talent. And you can't discount that growth from 8-5 the year before was curtailed by the fact we had to learn an entirely different offense.

Jenkins and Hill are the only ones that might get drafted from last years offense. Think about that. 2 guys on an offense that an NFL team would want. This is baffling to me. I guess it could be more if you count Whop and his like 6 receptions. Maybe Calhoun goes 7th round? Point is still the same. We have 2 guys that started last year that the NFL would draft.

5th year seniors can suck at throwing. Fitz sucked at throwing. That's why he was asked to try out at TE.

[RezDog7]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

We just had 3 players selected in the first round and you're still bitching. Good lord man

[CadaverDawg]

That RB isn't getting drafted. And if Guidry was eligible he wouldn't get drafted either. How many of those veteran OL get drafted? 1?

Y'all turned us into something we weren't. Our offense was terrible because we lacked talent. Jenkins and Hill are the only ones that might get drafted from last years offense. Think about that. 2 guys on an offense that an NFL team would want. This is baffling to me.

5th year seniors can suck at throwing. Fitz sucked at throwing. That's why he was asked to try out at TE.

Lol, ok. I am 1000% not surprised to see you defending it. If you think Joe got the best of his offense last year, you're reaching Hard.

[Cooterpoot]

Worst WR talent in the SEC. No TE talent. A QB that couldn?t throw it. No tackles.

[BeardoMSU]

That RB isn't getting drafted. And if Guidry was eligible he wouldn't get drafted either. How many of those veteran OL get drafted? 1?

Y'all turned us into something we weren't. Our offense was terrible because we lacked talent. And you can't discount that growth from 8-5 the year before was curtailed by the fact we had to learn an entirely different offense.

Jenkins and Hill are the only ones that might get drafted from last years offense. Think about that. 2 guys on an offense that an NFL team would want. This is baffling to me.

5th year seniors can suck at throwing. Fitz sucked at throwing. That's why he was asked to try out at TE.

good stuff.

[CadaverDawg]

We just had 3 players selected in the first round and you're still bitching. Good lord man

I'm not bitching about them getting drafted. I'm pissed that we along with Clemson & Bama had 3 first rounders, yet managed to go 8-5 due to an underachieving O.

[99jc]

Wow, lots of JoMo defenders and excuse makers in here. Most of you guys saying we had shitty offensive players were the same ones predicting 10-11 wins bc we had more talent on both sides of the ball than we have ever had.

Ok

Cadaver your wasting your time with these dumbasses. they can defend that fatass all night long but the truth is Moorhead 17'd up this season with his shitty offense and that's a fact.

[MetEdDawg]

Lol, ok. I am 1000% not surprised to see you defending it. If you think Joe got the best of his offense last year, you're reaching Hard.

Show me where I said best. Of course it wasn't the best. But if you can't admit Fitz couldn't run that offense and that we are bottom 5 of the SEC in skill position talent I can't help you. Hard to score points when the people that have to score points are bad at scoring points. We lack talent plain and simple on offense.

Bama, Auburn, LSU, and TAMU guaranteed had better skill position and QB last year. OM did too because we would have traded every WR we had for Brown, Metcalf, and Lodge.

[BeardoMSU]

Lol, ok. I am 1000% not surprised to see you defending it. If you think Joe got the best of his offense last year, you're reaching Hard.

Maybe he didn't, but serious dude....he was installing a totally different offense, with totally different terminology and plays. This isn't easy stuff.

Also, Fitz was a sub 50% player even under Dan (who is supposedly the QB whisperer), so why people thought Joe would take him to the next step is beyond me.

[CadaverDawg]

Cadaver your wasting your time with these dumbasses. they can defend that fatass all night long but the truth is Moorhead 17'd up this season with his shitty offense and that's a fact.

Haha

[RezDog7]

I'm not bitching about them getting drafted. I'm pissed that we along with Clemson & Bama had 3 first rounders, yet managed to go 8-5 due to an underachieving O.

Right on cue, Georgia DB is drafted and his highlight includes Fitz throwing a terrible pass that's picked and housed, yet you're bitching that our new head coach couldn't make him win 12 games. GTFOH with that dumb ass shit.

[RezDog7]

Cadaver your wasting your time with these dumbasses. they can defend that fatass all night long but the truth is Moorhead 17'd up this season with his shitty offense and that's a fact.

No, you two and anybody else blaming Moorhead for Fitz inability to complete a pass or receivers to catch a pass is insane.

[CadaverDawg]

Right on cue, Georgia DB is drafted and his highlight includes Fitz throwing a terrible pass that's picked and housed, yet you're bitching that our new head coach couldn't make him win 12 games. GTFOH with that dumb ass shit.

Lol, keep defending Joe. Dan won more than Joe did with that QB and a worse D. Maybe you're the one spouting "dumb ass shit". But carry on, this is entertaining watching the excuse train

[CadaverDawg]

No, you two and anybody else blaming Moorhead for Fitz inability to complete a pass or receivers to catch a pass is insane.

You just proved my point....you have a veteran OL and 2 stud RB's....why is Guru asking this QB to throw so much? Hmm. Haha you guys are hilarious defending it and making excuses. I didn't realize there were so many though...it's a little scary to see actually

[TUSK]

I dunno near as much as you cats re: MSU/Moorehead, but I did watch several of y'all's games. It appeared to me that CJM was desperately trying to get his guys to do stuff that they either weren't smart enough or talented enough to do.

Seems like he woulda figured that out pretty early and maybe installed a "bridge/hybrid" offense to help with the transition.

And I dunno if that would have been possible or any better, though,,,, Thoughts?

[Cooterpoot]

Our offensive numbers were very similar to Mullen’s last year overall.

[CadaverDawg]

I dunno near as much as you cats re: MSU/Moorehead, but I did watch several of y'all's games. It appeared to me that CJM was desperately trying to get his guys to do stuff that they either weren't smart enough or talented enough to do.

Seems like he woulda figured that out pretty early and maybe installed a "bridge/hybrid" offense to help with the transition.

And I dunno if that would have been possible or any better, though,,,, Thoughts?

Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand

[RezDog7]

Lol, keep defending Joe. Dan won more than Joe did with that QB and a worse D. Maybe you're the one spouting "dumb ass shit". But carry on, this is entertaining watching the excuse train

I'm not defending Joe, I'm just sick of hearing MSU was supposed to win 10-11 games because the defense was amazing. Does Joe get any credit for the Auburn or A&M game or was that just the players making plays?

[CadaverDawg]

Our offensive numbers were very similar to Mullen’s last year overall.

Would have been way better if we had given our two workhorse RB's a few carries here and there

[msstate7]

Our offensive numbers were very similar to Mullen’s last year overall.

You change with the wind. You blasted Moorhead most the season and now you make excuses for him. At least met is consistent...

[CadaverDawg]

I'm not defending Joe, I'm just sick of hearing MSU was supposed to win 10-11 games because the defense was amazing. Does Joe get any credit for the Auburn or A&M game or was that just the players making plays?

Well then click out of this thread, bc we should have won 10-11 games

[MetEdDawg]

Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand

Well you can't really evaluate until after installation. So all of spring. So if you go backwards, you have to undo spring, redo it with different terminology in summer. So you end up losing time doing things you do in summer.

Why is that so hard? You ask a guy to run a bastardized version of what he runs and that after he installs it, he has to not only undo it, but redo it in a dumbed down version.

Any of you ever had to do that with 18-22 year olds? He had a shit situation. Guys that couldn't run his offense instantly. Why is that his fault? If I can't teach my kids the way I normally do, it takes me a while to go back and figure out how to modify it to bring it down to their level. And guess what? In order to do that I have to get behind in what I'm supposed to teach.

Shocked people don't understand that it's not just hey let's cut a few plays and change a few words and boom Fitz can complete 65% and our WRs won't drop wide open passes

[Turfdawg67]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

Two catches and we beat 2 of those 3. You know it, and we all know it.

[bluelightstar]

I think our offense actively lost the LSU and Iowa games at least.

[Goldendawg]

I dunno near as much as you cats re: MSU/Moorehead, but I did watch several of y'all's games. It appeared to me that CJM was desperately trying to get his guys to do stuff that they either weren't smart enough or talented enough to do.

Seems like he woulda figured that out pretty early and maybe installed a "bridge/hybrid" offense to help with the transition.

And I dunno if that would have been possible or any better, though,,,, Thoughts?

He did install something against AU that we never saw again in any other game. The rest of the year, he was as stubborn as Croome and Woody with their West Coast "offense" that never worked either.

[CadaverDawg]

Well at least you defenders can celebrate that we had more first rounders than Ole Miss. Usually those crowds are one in the same. Defend the coach at all costs, and only care if we beat Ole Miss

[CadaverDawg]

He did install something against AU that we never saw again in any other game. The rest of the year, he was as stubborn as Croome and Woody with their West Coast "offense" that never worked either.

Yep

[CadaverDawg]

Two catches and we beat 2 of those 3. You know it, and we all know it.

Actually I don't agree with that at all, bc it's far from fact

[bobtail bob]

Watch the Kentucky game from last season falling apart on the road. That is what we are going to get with Moor. You'll get the same thing next season. Teams will sell out to stop our running game and force them to pass. Joe can't adapt

[bluelightstar]

Actually I don't agree with that at all, bc it's far from fact

It makes no sense. That drop against Florida was like the first 5 minutes of the second half. Mullen could?ve scored more points against us in that game if it was necessary

[Todd4State]

We should be celebrating the fact that we had three players drafted in the first round tonight instead of bitching about the offense. Because the reality is until we start recruiting on the offensive side like we do the defensive side we're not going to improve no matter who the coach is.

So if you want to bitch about something- bitch at the guys that took off recruiting while they were looking for "better" jobs for the past 4-5 years and the limp dick administrator who is also at Florida who protected them and didn't hold them accountable. At the same time some of the same fans who are bitching about the offense right now are the some of the same people that defended the last staff too. Including the guy that started this thread. So, while I would have liked to have done better than 8-5 I also don't feel sorry for those that defended mediocre recruiting for years.

That said- hopefully we continue to recruit better on offense and maintain our recruiting on defense. Once we do that our offense will be fine no matter who the coach is or what kind of offense we run.

[Todd4State]

Well at least you defenders can celebrate that we had more first rounders than Ole Miss. Usually those crowds are one in the same. Defend the coach at all costs, and only care if we beat Ole Miss

You're damn right I'll celebrate beating Ole Miss. No matter who the coach is. Give me 2018 over 2015 any year.

And at the very least Joe did do that.

[RezDog7]

Watch the Kentucky game from last season falling apart on the road. That is what we are going to get with Moor. You'll get the same thing next season. Teams will sell out to stop our running game and force them to pass. Joe can't adapt

Passing
17-#113
18-#112
Rushing
17-#11
18-#20
Scoring
17-32
18-28.5
Pretty much the same...

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Wow I cant believe the "we have no offensive talent" narrative is still alive. Let's compare '17 O woth Mullen to the '18 O under Dan.

'18 had slightly better WR's (guidry, and everyone else was more experienced), more experience at TE, a better OL (4/5 returned so experience and chemistry was better), better RBs (experience), and the same QB as the previous 2 years.

So given that LITERALLY EVERY POSITION GROUP IMPROVED, why was the O significantly worse than under Mullen? Why did Fitz have worse numbers than in '17 when Jackson was our leading receiver and we had no Guidry?

You have to come up with some reason that's independent of talent, as the O was factually more talented and/or more experienced than the year before yet did way worse. The only change was Moorhead. Stop making excuses, that's literally the only possible reason for the decline as it's the only change.

[BayouDawg]

Lol, keep defending Joe. Dan won more than Joe did with that QB and a worse D. Maybe you're the one spouting "dumb ass shit". But carry on, this is entertaining watching the excuse train

People can be pissed at the offensive production this year and yet still want our coach to succeed in the future. Theres plenty of room for you to jump on the gator band wagon with ya boys dan and Scott.

[BankerDog]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

Senior QB who couldn?t complete a touch pass to save his life?

#1 Juco WR who was the 4th best WR on his Juco Team? Who dropped countless passes right in his hands? Who dropped a wide open slant in our spring game? Yeah real difference maker.

Dan won more then Joe did with Fitz possibly because he coached him for two years compared to Joe?s one year..

[MetEdDawg]

Wow I cant believe the "we have no offensive talent" narrative is still alive. Let's compare '17 O woth Mullen to the '18 O under Dan.

'18 had slightly better WR's (guidry, and everyone else was more experienced), more experience at TE, a better OL (4/5 returned so experience and chemistry was better), better RBs (experience), and the same QB as the previous 2 years.

So given that LITERALLY EVERY POSITION GROUP IMPROVED, why was the O significantly worse than under Mullen? Why did Fitz have worse numbers than in '17 when Jackson was our leading receiver and we had no Guidry?

You have to come up with some reason that's independent of talent, as the O was factually more talented and/or more experienced than the year before yet did way worse. The only change was Moorhead. Stop making excuses, that's literally the only possible reason for the decline as it's the only change.

Because we changed the entire offense? Growth gets curtailed when you do that. That's common knowledge. So yes you get better physically, but mentally you aren't as comfortable with the offense so you don't do things as fluidly or as quickly.

[CadaverDawg]

People can be pissed at the offensive production this year and yet still want our coach to succeed in the future. Theres plenty of room for you to jump on the gator band wagon with ya boys dan and Scott.

I want Joe to succeed. I'm just pissed he blew it last year, and tonight's draft was a reminder

[BankerDog]

Actually I don't agree with that at all, bc it's far from fact

So if Guidry doesn?t complete the reception in the Outback Bowl we don?t win? We do.

Willie and Mitchell both dropped for sure TD?s in the FL game that would?ve swing momentum and we win.

[MetEdDawg]

Senior QB who couldn?t complete a touch pass to save his life?

#1 Juco WR who was the 4th best WR on his Juco Team? Who dropped countless passes right in his hands? Who dropped a wide open slant in our spring game? Yeah real difference maker.

Dan won more then Joe did with Fitz possibly because he coached him for two years compared to Joe?s one year..


Dan coached Fitz for 4 years. He was in Mullen's system all but the last of his 5 years at MSU. Fitz was a terrible passer in Mullen's offense. What did we think he would do in a new offense? Shocking people still think Fitz underperformed. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. Regress in a new offense that was more pass heavy.

Moorhead has to adjust but again. Certain things in his offense works because of the pass. Not being able to pass hurts a lot more than just the passing game.

[BankerDog]

Dan coached Fitz for 4 years. He was in Mullen's system all but the last of his 5 years at MSU. Fitz was a terrible passer in Mullen's offense. What did we think he would do in a new offense? Shocking people still think Fitz underperformed. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. Regress in a new offense that was more pass heavy.

Moorhead has to adjust but again. Certain things in his offense works because of the pass. Not being able to pass hurts a lot more than just the passing game.

Fitz was a starter for two was my point.

[Turfdawg67]

So if Guidry doesn?t complete the reception in the Outback Bowl we don?t win? We do.

Willie and Mitchell both dropped for sure TD?s in the FL game that would?ve swing momentum and we win.

^^^ Banker gets it.

[MetEdDawg]

Fitz was a starter for two was my point.

Very true. But terminology and execution wise you can double that. Even more difficult to undo that.

[BayouDawg]

I want Joe to succeed. I'm just pissed he blew it last year, and tonight's draft was a reminder

I choose to believe the man is not an idiot and will learn from this year. I think it was a humbling experience for him and he will improve. I could be wrong though. No sense in crying over it now though. Thats above my pay grade.

[Goldendawg]

People can be pissed at the offensive production this year and yet still want our coach to succeed in the future. Theres plenty of room for you to jump on the gator band wagon with ya boys dan and Scott.

Glad Dan is gone along with Scott, but I seem to remember pre-season talk of "ring sizes", "Championship Standards", and make room for a Heisman on your shelf. Have heard the talk, now walk the walk in '19.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Because we changed the entire offense? Growth gets curtailed when you do that. That's common knowledge. So yes you get better physically, but mentally you aren't as comfortable with the offense so you don't do things as fluidly or as quickly.

Scheme =/ talent... I 100% agree the new scheme and playcalling were worse than they were under Mullen. That's the point: offensive coaching was the primary problem, not lack of talent. Yeah we still dont have much talent but as far as why we got worse after gaining experience, well its gotta fall on Moorhead

[HoopsDawg]

So if Guidry doesn?t complete the reception in the Outback Bowl we don?t win? We do.

Willie and Mitchell both dropped for sure TD?s in the FL game that would?ve swing momentum and we win.

7-6-3-0.

[BayouDawg]

Glad Dan is gone along with Scott, but I seem to remember pre-season talk of "ring sizes", "Championship Standards", and make room for a Heisman on your shelf. Have heard the talk, now walk the walk in '19.

I agree. Hes a big boy so lets see if he can back it up. Successful coaches learn from past mistakes and adapt. I think Joe will.

[MetEdDawg]

Scheme =/ talent... I 100% agree the new scheme and playcalling were worse than they were under Mullen. That's the point: offensive coaching was the primary problem, not lack of talent. Yeah we still dont have much talent but as far as why we got worse after gaining experience, well its gotta fall on Moorhead

How were they worse? They didn't fit our players year 1 but that's not worse. It's just different.

Just look at the draft tonight. Why did the Cardinals select Kyler Murray with a first round QB from last year on their team? Scheme and fit. No Kingsbury, no Kyler plain and simple. We don't get to change our players like that. NFL can. We were stuck with a new system and a QB that couldn't run it along with skill players that weren't SEC caliber.

That doesn't mean it's worse

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Passing
17-#113
18-#112
Rushing
17-#11
18-#20
Scoring
17-32
18-28.5
Pretty much the same...

3.5 ppg is a pretty big gap, especially when you consider how badly we blew out teams like ULL; the larger those scores were, the lower the scores were vs other teams to get a given average. Mullen didnt blow out non-cons as bad so his scoring was more consistent.

Also I will add that Moorhead had the benefit of the same '17 team, plus a year of experience and + guidry. All else being equal '18 should put up better numbers for that reason alone

[MetEdDawg]

3.5 ppg is a pretty big gap, especially when you consider how badly we blew out teams like ULL; the larger those scores were, the lower the scores were vs other teams to get a given average. Mullen didnt blow out non-cons as bad so his scoring was more consistent.

Also I will add that Moorhead had the benefit of the same '17 team, plus a year of experience and + guidry. All else being equal '18 should put up better numbers for that reason alone

It's just not that easy. If I teach chemistry for 4 years, then the next year I teach physics, should I be a better teacher at physics than chemistry just because I'm one year more experienced as a teacher?

The answer is no. It takes time to adjust to the new content, different kids, different demands, etc.

[BayouDawg]

How were they worse? They didn't fit our players year 1 but that's not worse. It's just different.

Just look at the draft tonight. Why did the Cardinals select Kyler Murray with a first round QB from last year on their team? Scheme and fit. No Kingsbury, no Kyler plain and simple. We don't get to change our players like that. NFL can. We were stuck with a new system and a QB that couldn't run it along with skill players that weren't SEC caliber.

That doesn't mean it's worse

While I agree with most of this I also understand where the anger is coming from. Joe absolutely could have adapted his system to fit his personnel better. He had to go through a learning curve and I dont think hes ever been in a situation where none of his skill players really fit his system compounded by going up against the most athletic defenses in the country week in and week out. I think Joe will adapt moving forward though.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

How were they worse? They didn't fit our players year 1 but that's not worse. It's just different.

Just look at the draft tonight. Why did the Cardinals select Kyler Murray with a first round QB from last year on their team? Scheme and fit. No Kingsbury, no Kyler plain and simple. We don't get to change our players like that. NFL can. We were stuck with a new system and a QB that couldn't run it along with skill players that weren't SEC caliber.

That doesn't mean it's worse

Coaches job is to put the best product on the field. If a 4-3 D works better for our roster than a 3-4, I'd hope the DC would run a 4-3 regardless of what had like to run after getting his recruits in. And if handing the ball off and pounding it was the best thing for our O, I'd hope the staff would have done that even if they prefer for Fitz to hit downfield bombs and our OTs to handle Jonathan Allen 1 on 1. We didnt have that roster, they should have adjusted.

If you D has a safety that can't cover, you dont let him get schemed into a 1 on 1 with the other teams best receiver. Part of the DCs job is to hide our flaws and play to our strengths. And if your QB panics under pressure and cant get past his 2nd pass progression, you stop asking him to read 4 man routes and give him an extra blocker. This is one of the dozen examples of Moorhead not adjusting his ideal O to the one he had the pieces for. That's bad coaching.

[BayouDawg]

Coaches job is to put the best product on the field. If a 4-3 D works better for our roster than a 3-4, I'd hope the DC would run a 4-3 regardless of what had like to run after getting his recruits in. And if handing the ball off and pounding it was the best thing for our O, I'd hope the staff would have done that even if they prefer for Fitz to hit downfield bombs and our OTs to handle Jonathan Allen 1 on 1. We didnt have that roster, they should have adjusted.

If you D has a safety that can't cover, you dont let him get schemed into a 1 on 1 with the other teams best receiver. Part of the DCs job is to hide our flaws and play to our strengths. And if your QB panics under pressure and cant get past his 2nd pass progression, you stop asking him to read 4 man routes and give him an extra blocker. This is one of the dozen examples of Moorhead not adjusting his ideal O to the one he had the pieces for. That's bad coaching.

I agree but it is also the opponents job to expose our weaknesses. Unfortunately for us they were very successful being able to load the box and force the ball into Nicks hands way too often. You could argue there were way to many reads (pre and post snap) for a qb running the system for the first time.

[Goldendawg]

Coaches job is to put the best product on the field. If a 4-3 D works better for our roster than a 3-4, I'd hope the DC would run a 4-3 regardless of what had like to run after getting his recruits in. And if handing the ball off and pounding it was the best thing for our O, I'd hope the staff would have done that even if they prefer for Fitz to hit downfield bombs and our OTs to handle Jonathan Allen 1 on 1. We didnt have that roster, they should have adjusted.

If you D has a safety that can't cover, you dont let him get schemed into a 1 on 1 with the other teams best receiver. Part of the DCs job is to hide our flaws and play to our strengths. And if your QB panics under pressure and cant get past his 2nd pass progression, you stop asking him to read 4 man routes and give him an extra blocker. This is one of the dozen examples of Moorhead not adjusting his ideal O to the one he had the pieces for. That's bad coaching.

Croom and Woody disagree.****

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

It's just not that easy. If I teach chemistry for 4 years, then the next year I teach physics, should I be a better teacher at physics than chemistry just because I'm one year more experienced as a teacher?

The answer is no. It takes time to adjust to the new content, different kids, different demands, etc.

Your using the wrong analogy. As a teacher youd be comparable to a coach, the students are comparable to the players. So yeah, if you made an entire class retake a chemistry course youd expect to see their average grades go up, since they've seen it all before.

For football, everyone knows experience matters. The weight room, learning how to handle emotions in hostile road environments, adjusting to the speed of the game... these are all benefits of experience.

[Homedawg]

Well none of them played offense so....

Next time we have an offensive skill player or QB drafted in the 1st 2 days of the draft will be the first time in a very very long time. Our offensive skill talent is among the bottom of the SEC

This offense will end up having numerous guys drafted between this year and next.

[Homedawg]

Passing
17-#113
18-#112
Rushing
17-#11
18-#20
Scoring
17-32
18-28.5
Pretty much the same...

Give me the league stats and I'll hang up and listen....

[Todd4State]

You can only scheme so much around:

1. A QB that makes improper reads in the running and passing game and makes poor throws almost 40% of the time.

2. Poor OT's. Including a guy that started at LT last year that is having trouble winning a job at RT this spring.

3. Receivers that are inconsistent catching the ball.

Even Dan couldn't score consistently on great defenses with those same players basically. Everyone forgets Georgia and Auburn 2017.

What's the adjustment for those three major issues? Hand the ball off up the middle every time? That's not going to work consistently in today's game. It just isn't. You have to have players that can at least function as SEC players on an average level for things to work and we didn't get that at four major positions on the offense.

[CadaverDawg]

Coaches job is to put the best product on the field. If a 4-3 D works better for our roster than a 3-4, I'd hope the DC would run a 4-3 regardless of what had like to run after getting his recruits in. And if handing the ball off and pounding it was the best thing for our O, I'd hope the staff would have done that even if they prefer for Fitz to hit downfield bombs and our OTs to handle Jonathan Allen 1 on 1. We didnt have that roster, they should have adjusted.

If you D has a safety that can't cover, you dont let him get schemed into a 1 on 1 with the other teams best receiver. Part of the DCs job is to hide our flaws and play to our strengths. And if your QB panics under pressure and cant get past his 2nd pass progression, you stop asking him to read 4 man routes and give him an extra blocker. This is one of the dozen examples of Moorhead not adjusting his ideal O to the one he had the pieces for. That's bad coaching.

Preach

[MoreCowbell]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

You really can?t argue against these points. Joe shit the bed in regards to the offense. We just had to be average on that side of the ball and we win 10/11 games

[BhamDawg205]

That RB isn't getting drafted. And if Guidry was eligible he wouldn't get drafted either. How many of those veteran OL get drafted? 1?

Y'all turned us into something we weren't. Our offense was terrible because we lacked talent. And you can't discount that growth from 8-5 the year before was curtailed by the fact we had to learn an entirely different offense.

Jenkins and Hill are the only ones that might get drafted from last years offense. Think about that. 2 guys on an offense that an NFL team would want. This is baffling to me. I guess it could be more if you count Whop and his like 6 receptions. Maybe Calhoun goes 7th round? Point is still the same. We have 2 guys that started last year that the NFL would draft.

5th year seniors can suck at throwing. Fitz sucked at throwing. That's why he was asked to try out at TE.

Williams not getting drafted wasn't a Williams fault... It sits squarely on a coach who couldn't scheme the ball into a 1k+ RB a year ago. A QB that held onto the ball when he should've gave it up. Whether he kept it for selfish reasons or defenses figuring him out. It wasn't A train or K Hill fault.

[parabrave]

None of these guys played on offense and we did finish with one of the top defenses in the nation. I?m just as disappointed as you are about 8-5 but this draft just indicates our defense was coached well and performed up to the standard of their talent.

Yeah he wasn't trying to hammer round pegs into square holes.

[MetEdDawg]

Your using the wrong analogy. As a teacher youd be comparable to a coach, the students are comparable to the players. So yeah, if you made an entire class retake a chemistry course youd expect to see their average grades go up, since they've seen it all before.

For football, everyone knows experience matters. The weight room, learning how to handle emotions in hostile road environments, adjusting to the speed of the game... these are all benefits of experience.

Perfect. So since none of them had seen this offense before we would expect some regression even though they grew in age. That's what I needed to know.

[gravedigger]

3 first rounders

Smh

Sorry, I just can't help but to think about it

Epitome of a MSU message board fan.

?Why didn?t we score more points?? Our defense was great!?

[BrunswickDawg]

I think our offense actively lost the LSU and Iowa games at least.

A first round draft pick blowing a coverage and giving up a 75 yard TD sure Looked like a big reason to me against Iowa.

[bluelightstar]

A first round draft pick blowing a coverage and giving up a 75 yard TD sure Looked like a big reason to me against Iowa.

Blown coverages happen. Not going to fault a #1 defense for basically the only blown coverage of the season. An inconsistent turnover-prone offense was a much bigger reason for the Outback loss — and was something we saw repeatedly all year.

[BrunswickDawg]

Blown coverages happen. Not going to fault a #1 defense for basically the only blown coverage of the season. An inconsistent turnover-prone offense was a much bigger reason for the Outback loss — and was something we saw repeatedly all year.

I wouldn't call our offense turnover prone. We were tied for #1 in the SEC for fewest Turnovers Lost (13), and had the lowest number of Fumbles Lost in the League (3). We had 1 game where our QB made some terrible INTS (LSU) - but considering he that 7 of his 9 INTS came early in the season in a new offense - and then goes 5 straight games without 1, I'd say that turnovers were not a major issue outside of the LSU game.

The Iowa game I look at differently. Bowls are weird. A team is just as likely to come out flat and out of sync as they are running on all cylinders. Look at our own Bowl history the past few years. 2016 in Tampa we looked terrible against a MAC team; 2017 Gator we blow the doors off of Louisville without coaches. As you say yourself- the #1 defense in the country blew a couple of plays that hadn't happened all year in the Outback. A month off does that to teams.

[MrKotter]

3 first rounders

Smh

Sorry, I just can't help but to think about it
Some of you are just flat out stupid.

[Jack Lambert]

And that our "offensive guru" is not one.

If he had his players your point would be well taking but he did not.

[basedog]

I only read the last page in this thread, where is the GIF of the guy whipping the horse?

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

I'm not bitching about them getting drafted. I'm pissed that we along with Clemson & Bama had 3 first rounders, yet managed to go 8-5 due to an underachieving O.

Having the same number of 1st rounders as Bama and Clemson does not mean we have the same talent as they do. I think you know that though.

[Saltydog]

Well none of them played offense so....

Next time we have an offensive skill player or QB drafted in the 1st 2 days of the draft will be the first time in a very very long time. Our offensive skill talent is among the bottom of the SEC

No but we had one OL (Jenkins) that was projected late 1st round that will be picked early in the second and from all accounts we had one of the best OL's in the program's history, so so much for all the talent being on the D.........

[Turfdawg67]

No but we had one OL (Jenkins) that was projected late 1st round that will be picked early in the second and from all accounts we had one of the best OL's in the program's history, so so much for all the talent being on the D.........

Wow! Our center will be drafted so that equates to our offense being talented? Hahahaha!

[Really Clark?]

Dan won 8 games with basically the same roster. Lost to OM at home.

With a freshman at QB making a ton of turnovers after the starting QB goes out with a broken ankle in the first quarter. And we still had a chance in that game. Dan didn?t lose that Egg Bowl.

[Really Clark?]

Our offensive numbers were very similar to Mullen?s last year overall.


Not true in conference. Noticeable drop off and would have been extremely bad if not for our last two. Which we did what we were suppose against those poor defenses

[Turfdawg67]

With a freshman at QB making a ton of turnovers after the starting QB goes out with a broken ankle in the first quarter. And we still had a chance in that game. Dan didn?t lose that Egg Bowl.

Dan was literally job hunting the night before the game. He couldn't have cared less if we won or lost. He's most definitely responsible.

[StateDawg44]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.


No. But WR who could catch (regardless of their phony JUCO rankings you hang your hat on) and a QB who didn't stare them down and had some finesse is all we needed.

That is all it would've taken. That is it. Period. Not a coach on the sideline. Even Saban couldn't have made Osirus make that catch against UF or Guidry make the catch in the endzone against Iowa.

[Turfdawg67]

No. But WR who could catch (regardless of their phony JUCO rankings you hang your hat on) and a QB who didn't stare them down and had some finesse is all we needed.

Seems to me that with those two criteria, you win 2 more games easily. And that makes... 10 wins! But these morons wouldn't be happy with that. It'd be why couldn't he beat Bama, why couldn't he win a playoff game, why didn't we go undefeated. Wah, wah, wah.

[Really Clark?]

Passing
17-#113
18-#112
Rushing
17-#11
18-#20
Scoring
17-32
18-28.5
Pretty much the same...

2017 scoring 26.3 vs conference, 19.3 in 2017. Rushing 2017 228.38 yards per game, 2018 186.63. Passing 2017 157.3 yards per game, 2018 129.5. All vs conference opponents and would include KT?s Egg Bowl game in 2017.

[Really Clark?]

Dan was literally job hunting the night before the game. He couldn't have cared less if we won or lost. He's most definitely responsible.

Fitz doesn’t get hurt, we gash them. Without KT’s turnovers we win. Regardless of what’s Dan was or wasn’t doing, we win that game. Nearly won it anyway. Don’t buy that at all.

[MetEdDawg]

No but we had one OL (Jenkins) that was projected late 1st round that will be picked early in the second and from all accounts we had one of the best OL's in the program's history, so so much for all the talent being on the D.........

Yeah because offensive line was the limiting factor on offense. Are you serious man?

[Saltydog]

Wow! Our center will be drafted so that equates to our offense being talented? Hahahaha!

Damn, your comprehension level is well, LOW. I was simply making the point that from an overall talent perspective our OL was one of the better groups we've had. Obviously that didn't equate to the kind of output and production we all would've liked. Obviously we had some deficiencies at QB, WR and scheme but even said I think most feel we should have finished with a better record.

[RezDog7]

Damn, your comprehension level is well, LOW. I was simply making the point that from an overall talent perspective our OL was one of the better groups we've had. Obviously that didn't equate to the kind of output and production we all would've liked. Obviously we had some deficiencies at QB, WR and scheme but even said I think most feel we should have finished with a better record.

We obviously should've run the ball every play. No doubt that would have won the natty.

[Scared_Hitless]

With a freshman at QB making a ton of turnovers after the starting QB goes out with a broken ankle in the first quarter. And we still had a chance in that game. Dan didn?t lose that Egg Bowl.

This is revisionist history at its finest. We were down 24-6 and they took their foot off the gas we never truly threatened. We did not get within 1 score until a minute left in the game. We had no excuse for this game. We were a very similar team last year as 2017 sure we wanted to make strides with Nick which I think was the biggest disappointment of the season. Sadly he didn't take those steps for us to reach the next level.

Coaching was a problem in the KY game other than that other than that the right plays were called a lot and our WRs and QB were not capable. We did what Mullen did every year beat who you are supposed too and sneak past a few SEC opponents. JoMo may fail but last year did not convince me of that yet.

[Hot Rock]

Wow I cant believe the "we have no offensive talent" narrative is still alive. Let's compare '17 O woth Mullen to the '18 O under Dan.

'18 had slightly better WR's (guidry, and everyone else was more experienced), more experience at TE, a better OL (4/5 returned so experience and chemistry was better), better RBs (experience), and the same QB as the previous 2 years.

So given that LITERALLY EVERY POSITION GROUP IMPROVED, why was the O significantly worse than under Mullen? Why did Fitz have worse numbers than in '17 when Jackson was our leading receiver and we had no Guidry?

You have to come up with some reason that's independent of talent, as the O was factually more talented and/or more experienced than the year before yet did way worse. The only change was Moorhead. Stop making excuses, that's literally the only possible reason for the decline as it's the only change.

Fitz was not the same last year. He was coming off a pretty horrific injury, missed the spring, missed the first game due to suspension. He never really picked up the offense and was a slower less aggressive runner. He gave us all he had to give but the dude was not the same. He had been in Mullen's system for years and still didn't complete a high percentage of passes in 2017. Mullen had checked out and that's just the way it was. He left us, and to compare what might have been sounds like a weak minded jilted lover wanting their ex back. He gone, he wasn't even interested when he was here the last few years.

People saying Moorhead is a loser and his offensive philosophy stinks and can't coach is foolish. We simply don't have enough information to know. We didn't have a QB on the roster last year that could run his system and we probably still don't. Mullen had QB's here that could win against weaker opponents that could be bullied and win enough games to get paid and to move on.

We are never going to be "Great" until we can actually pitch and catch the ball with consistency and run the ball. Can Moorhead get that offense here? I don't know but I am damn sure not quitting on him after a year which was basically had the same type production as Mullen's last year on offense with a weakened QB and a transition to new systems. That would be insane.

[basedog]

Fitz was not the same last year. He was coming off a pretty horrific injury, missed the spring, missed the first game due to suspension. He never really picked up the offense and was a slower less aggressive runner. He gave us all he had to give but the dude was not the same. He had been in Mullen's system for years and still didn't complete a high percentage of passes in 2017. Mullen had checked out and that's just the way it was. He left us, and to compare what might have been sounds like a weak minded jilted lover wanting their ex back. He gone, he wasn't even interested when he was here the last few years.

People saying Moorhead is a loser and his offensive philosophy stinks and can't coach is foolish. We simply don't have enough information to know. We didn't have a QB on the roster last year that could run his system and we probably still don't. Mullen had QB's here that could win against weaker opponents that could be bullied and win enough games to get paid and to move on.

We are never going to be "Great" until we can actually pitch and catch the ball with consistency and run the ball. Can Moorhead get that offense here? I don't know but I am damn sure not quitting on him after a year which was basically had the same type production as Mullen's last year on offense with a weakened QB and a transition to new systems. That would be insane.

Dude you get it! Nicely said.

[Really Clark?]

We obviously should've run the ball every play. No doubt that would have won the natty.

Nobody has ever said that. And I understand the coach installing his offense. But within inside Moorehead’s offensive scheme, we should have had a cohesive playbook for the season that flowed better with our personnel. Up front you have road grader OL. They are very good at run blocking. You have an All-Time SEC rushing QB and 3 quality RB’s. Good TE’s. And shaky WR who have issues catching the ball (worse in the league with drops, which just average production puts Fitz at around 60% passing). Our personnel screamed we have to base what we do on attacking with the ground game to open up passing. It doesn’t have to be some absurd 80% rushing/20% passing ratio. In the end the ratio was probably pretty close to being right, maybe 65/35 tops.

The problem was on multiple levels. We never really tried to establish an identity through a lot of the season. There were several games where there was no connection to what we were trying to do throughout the season. It was like a lot of games had a different plot and some had no connection to the season long playbook. Also, while I knew Moorehead was going to be more methodical than Mullen, we lost over 10 plays per game because of slow play calling and snaps. It gives some of the smartest defensive coaches (and players also) in the world time to dissect what you are about to do and bait you into what they want you to run. For a well oiled machine, you can still execute and have options to change too. We were far from well oiled. The install didn’t take well, the overall season lacked continuity offensively and we were too slow to get plays off to establish a rythem offensively.

[Really Clark?]

This is revisionist history at its finest. We were down 24-6 and they took their foot off the gas we never truly threatened. We did not get within 1 score until a minute left in the game. We had no excuse for this game. We were a very similar team last year as 2017 sure we wanted to make strides with Nick which I think was the biggest disappointment of the season. Sadly he didn't take those steps for us to reach the next level.

Coaching was a problem in the KY game other than that other than that the right plays were called a lot and our WRs and QB were not capable. We did what Mullen did every year beat who you are supposed too and sneak past a few SEC opponents. JoMo may fail but last year did not convince me of that yet.


Uh...we are down because of turnovers

[Scared_Hitless]

Uh...we are down because of turnovers

Yeah which are self inflicted. Also what does that change in regards to you saying we had a chance when we were down 3 scores in the 4th Quarter.

[msstate7]

Yeah which are self inflicted. Also what does that change in regards to you saying we had a chance when we were down 3 scores in the 4th Quarter.

Maybe bc we did have a chance? We had the ball with a chance to take the lead with enough time on the clock.

[Scared_Hitless]

Maybe bc we did have a chance? We had the ball with a chance to take the lead with enough time on the clock.

When it was 10-6 sure we never had the ball in the 2nd half with a 1 possession game. We had to attempt an onside which they recovered.

[msstate7]

When it was 10-6 sure we never had the ball in the 2nd half with a 1 possession game. We had to attempt an onside which they recovered.

I'm apparently lost. I thought this was a discussion about the 2016 LSU game. I'll show myself the way out this argument

[Scared_Hitless]

I'm apparently lost. I thought this was a discussion about the 2016 LSU game. I'll show myself the way out this argument

Ah I was like I know you know your stuff so I had to double check the stats. Yeah he was talking about the 2017 Egg Bowl.

[msstate7]

Ah I was like I know you know your stuff so I had to double check the stats. Yeah he was talking about the 2017 Egg Bowl.

Apologies

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Fitz was not the same last year. He was coming off a pretty horrific injury, missed the spring, missed the first game due to suspension. He never really picked up the offense and was a slower less aggressive runner. He gave us all he had to give but the dude was not the same. He had been in Mullen's system for years and still didn't complete a high percentage of passes in 2017. Mullen had checked out and that's just the way it was. He left us, and to compare what might have been sounds like a weak minded jilted lover wanting their ex back. He gone, he wasn't even interested when he was here the last few years.

People saying Moorhead is a loser and his offensive philosophy stinks and can't coach is foolish. We simply don't have enough information to know. We didn't have a QB on the roster last year that could run his system and we probably still don't. Mullen had QB's here that could win against weaker opponents that could be bullied and win enough games to get paid and to move on.

We are never going to be "Great" until we can actually pitch and catch the ball with consistency and run the ball. Can Moorhead get that offense here? I don't know but I am damn sure not quitting on him after a year which was basically had the same type production as Mullen's last year on offense with a weakened QB and a transition to new systems. That would be insane.

You're making my point for me: We had no QB on roster who could run the system Joe demanded. Maybe he should have, I don't know, run a more run heavy, run read O that Fitz excelled at? Again to use a DC analogy, if you have a really good front 4 but CBs that suck, you shouldn't leave them on an island while you do house blitzes because you'll get torched deep. You should keep safeties back and trust the front 4 to get pressure on their own in such a case. If we expect a DC to adjust his style and playcalling to his personnel, why is the narrative about Moorhead "it's not his fault the O regressed, the players just couldn't do what he wanted them too" as if he can't call run plays or keep the TE and RB in pass pro to help Eiland and Reese?

Mullen could adjust. Remember the Relf Coast run attack? Remember the balanced O in '14 when we had decent WRs and a decent passing QB and a solid RB? Remember how pass heavy we were in '15 when Dak got more accurate and we had no RB? Remember how pissed we all were at "Holloway up the middle"? That's because we knew Holloway couldn't get it done inside, and we wanted Mullen to adapt his playcalling to reality.

yet now, when Moorhead is asking a mentally slow Fitz to make tons of new reads, an inaccurate Fitz to make good throws, bad WR's to get open downfield, and slow OT to block DE's one on one, all the sudden it's "well the personnel didn't fit his scheme, nothing he can do". It's a complete 180 from the past, were Mullen would change his system and we still got onto him for being too stubborn.

[smootness]

Our offense completely and totally sucked last year. Moorhead is responsible for the offense.

You can debate all you want about why the offense sucked, but he is responsible. And yes, the offense cost us a chance to truly do something special.

I do find it funny that the people defending Moorhead are saying, 'Yeah, defensive players were drafted, and our defense was great last year. They did their job and it showed up on the field.' Uh.....YES. That is exactly the point. And we still won 8 games. Why? The offense sucked.

[Really Clark?]

Yeah which are self inflicted. Also what does that change in regards to you saying we had a chance when we were down 3 scores in the 4th Quarter.

Right self inflicted, early in the game when we had moved ball against well and KT couldn’t take care of the ball, not caused by Dan in anyway.

[deadheaddawg]

We have so many fans who are just clueless. I swear some of you must not even watch football, yall just like to bitch like little girls. Football is over so many of your heads. Find a new hobby, one your dumb little brains can figure out. First year coach, with a specialized QB built for a different system. Its not that hard, yall are just not very smart people

If you think you already know how good or bad Moorhead is YOU ARE A STUPID PERSON.

[confucius say]

This offense will end up having numerous guys drafted between this year and next.

Define numerous.

[msstate7]

We have so many fans who are just clueless. I swear some of you must not even watch football, yall just like to bitch like little girls. Football is over so many of your heads. Find a new hobby, one your dumb little brains can figure out. First year coach, with a specialized QB built for a different system. Its not that hard, yall are just not very smart people

If you think you already know how good or bad Moorhead is YOU ARE A STUPID PERSON.

Not sure why you resort to hurling personal insults. If you disagree with someone, say so... no reason to call them stupid or whatever

[deadheaddawg]

Not sure why you resort to hurling personal insults. If you disagree with someone, say so... no reason to call them stupid or whatever

Because the people I am insulting use terms like Slo Mo to insult. I figure its best to speak their language. This board is constantly insulting players and coaches, lets get off your silly little high horse about insults. Or at least dont be a hypocrite and call it our across the board.

And, and this is the most important part, they are idiots.

[smootness]

We have so many fans who are just clueless. I swear some of you must not even watch football, yall just like to bitch like little girls. Football is over so many of your heads. Find a new hobby, one your dumb little brains can figure out. First year coach, with a specialized QB built for a different system. Its not that hard, yall are just not very smart people

If you think you already know how good or bad Moorhead is YOU ARE A STUPID PERSON.

Yeah, this is rational.

Tell me how many wins you predicted before the year.

[deadheaddawg]

Yeah, this is rational.

Tell me how many wins you predicted before the year.

8. Kentucky is the main one I was suprised on, but they were much better than I figured.

I posted before the year I was worried we would get our expectations too high. A first year coach, especially in the SEC, would have a learning curve. Especially with such an untraditional QB.


I posted I hope our fans are smart enough to know it's going to take more than a year to know.

It's not my fault you were irrational before the year

[Saltydog]

Conversely Met, I?m saying we had a good OL....

[CadaverDawg]

You really can?t argue against these points. Joe shit the bed in regards to the offense. We just had to be average on that side of the ball and we win 10/11 games

Yep

[MetEdDawg]

Conversely Met, I?m saying we had a good OL....

I actually think we had a great OL. But as far as having the WRs and the QB necessary to win big, we just didn't have that.

If you want to be upper tier in the SEC, it's very difficult to do that with a QB that can't throw and a position group that is in the bottom 3 of the conference. That's what we had at WR.

I blame Joe some. Hindsight being what it is, 9-3 would have made me happy. 8-4 is disappointing and Joe does get some blame. But people think it's just easy to change everything you do last minute and it's really not. We didn't have the WR to execute the offense and frankly, they are just not talented. You look at that group and ask how many of those would have played decent minutes in the SEC and you say really the answer is almost none.

Then you look around the conference and ask how many teams Fitz plays for. The answer is none in the West except Arkansas. So at the most important position on the field and at the position that person throws to, we were one of the worst in the entire conference. Any growth from the skill position was offset by having to learn a new offense in my mind. Same for Fitz. 4 years at QB having gone from triple option 1 year in high school to Mullen's offense for 4 years. That's tough to ask him to get good enough to beat everyone but Bama and LSU.

[deadheaddawg]

Thanks to this year I understand why Mullen was looking for a new job every year. Now I know why he might have even been looking at places like Maryland. Why wouldn't he want to try to find a school with a more football savvy fan base? Probably the smart thing for all of our coaches to do would be to find a job at a school with fans that understand how sports works.

I have been a state fan for my whole life. Almost half a century. I would love to work for the university, but I will never hold anything against a coach that leaves this place. All fans are irrational. Ours tend to be irrational, stupid, and have never actually watched sports.

Get out why you can Lemonis.

[DancingRabbit]

We obviously should've run the ball every play. No doubt that would have won the natty.

Yeah, this narrative that Dan got so much more out of our RB corps that Joe did is just another example of revised history. The fact is, Joe got more rushing production from our RBs than post-2014 Dan.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

[msstate7]

Yeah, this narrative that Dan got so much more out of our RB corps that Joe did is just another example of revised history. The fact is, Joe got more rushing production from our RBs than post-2014 Dan.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

Rb carry %...
2017 = .552
2018 = .455

Your post is why a lot of us have complained about Moorhead all season. Everyone knew the strength of this team was the run blocking oline and the RBs. We inexplicably got away from our strength

[Really Clark?]

Yeah, this narrative that Dan got so much more out of our RB corps that Joe did is just another example of revised history. The fact is, Joe got more rushing production from our RBs than post-2014 Dan.

In 2015 RBs ran for 875 yds on 191 attempts for a 4.58 avg and scored 3 TDs.
In 2016 RBs ran for 1221 yds on 245 attempts for a 4.99 avg and scored 6 TDs.
In 2017 RBs ran for 1677 yds on 350 attempts for a 4.70 avg and scored 9 TDs.
In 2018 RBs ran for 1576 yds on 253 attempts for a 6.2 avg and scored 9 TDs.

Who narrowed it down to just RB’s? Sorry but anyone who brings up our rushing attack and leaves off the QB, with either HC really, is not giving a full stat look at our rushing attack. The QB was too integral a part of that. Not to mention Dan also used WR in 2015 and 2016 to help with the overall rushing attack. Especially without a feature RB until Aeris in 2017, who rushed for over 1,100 yards. Looking at just RB’s is revising who we have been running the ball for the last decade, besides Tyler’s year of 2012.

[CadaverDawg]

Thanks to this year I understand why Mullen was looking for a new job every year. Now I know why he might have even been looking at places like Maryland. Why wouldn't he want to try to find a school with a more football savvy fan base? Probably the smart thing for all of our coaches to do would be to find a job at a school with fans that understand how sports works.

I have been a state fan for my whole life. Almost half a century. I would love to work for the university, but I will never hold anything against a coach that leaves this place. All fans are irrational. Ours tend to be irrational, stupid, and have never actually watched sports.

Get out why you can Lemonis.

Yes, if Joe or Lemonis or any of our other coaches are perusing EliteDawgs and messageboards for pats on the back, please leave now.

[deadheaddawg]

Yes, if Joe or Lemonis or any of our other coaches are perusing EliteDawgs and messageboards for pats on the back, please leave now.

It not about pats on the back, its about fans not understanding the basic common sense stuff. I do hope Elitedawgs is not representative of the majority of our fans, but if it is, then as a fan base we are not smart enough to deserve a decent coach.

Again, ANYONE here thinking they know how good Moorhead will be long term IS A STUPID PERSON.

ANYONE saying they know he will be a failure or a success IS A STUPID PERSON

So pats on the back do not matter. What matters are idiot fans that clearly have no clue about how football works, being so vocal. I can understand passion. I can understand being a fan. I can't understand stupidity. We have a ton of stupid fans. We have stupid fans starting stupid threads like this. I wish those people would go find something more suited for their intelligence level. Like paint by numbers.

[DancingRabbit]

Who narrowed it down to just RB’s? Sorry but anyone who brings up our rushing attack and leaves off the QB, with either HC really, is not giving a full stat look at our rushing attack. The QB was too integral a part of that. Not to mention Dan also used WR in 2015 and 2016 to help with the overall rushing attack. Especially without a feature RB until Aeris in 2017, who rushed for over 1,100 yards. Looking at just RB’s is revising who we have been running the ball for the last decade, besides Tyler’s year of 2012.

I narrowed down to just RBs. The narrative has been that all Joe had to do was make Fitz hand the ball off and we win 11 games.

Another narrative recently is everything Dan = good, everything Joe = bad. Pardon me if I insert some facts here and there amongst the narratives.

[Really Clark?]

I narrowed down to just RBs. The narrative has been that all Joe had to do was make Fitz hand the ball off and we win 11 games.

Another narrative recently is everything Dan = good, everything Joe = bad. Pardon me if I insert some facts here and there amongst the narratives.

I don’t see that narrative as much as the debate over Fitz vs the HC controlling who gets the ball. But you specifically posted about how people have claimed that Dan go so much more out of the RB’s. I don’t think I’ve really seen that. I do believe would have been more balanced about who got the rushes, like last season.

The HC can pre-determine who gets the ball, read it not. We did some vs Auburn. Some of those “read” plays were not reads at all, just appeared that way. Window dressing for the defense. I think what most are alluding too is why do you not have a playbook arc for the season based off of the personnel strengths. Especially vs Kentucky and Florida. Why does a 1,100 yard SR SEC back have 50 less attempts than he did even as a Soph? Not to mention his blocking. Why the previous season the QB didn’t have an issue giving the top 2 RB’s nearly double the carries he had but this season he was just keeping it himself? Either it was the reads given by the defenses or the HC didn’t adjust for that for the RB’s. Or the HC just let the QB do what he wanted and that’s not a good sign either. So within that discussion, then I also think the HC should have been more balanced with who actually ran the ball with the play calling or adjusting the read.

[DancingRabbit]

I don’t see that narrative as much as the debate over Fitz vs the HC controlling who gets the ball. But you specifically posted about how people have claimed that Dan go so much more out of the RB’s. I don’t think I’ve really seen that. I do believe would have been more balanced about who got the rushes, like last season.

The HC can pre-determine who gets the ball, read it not. We did some vs Auburn. Some of those “read” plays were not reads at all, just appeared that way. Window dressing for the defense. I think what most are alluding too is why do you not have a playbook arc for the season based off of the personnel strengths. Especially vs Kentucky and Florida. Why does a 1,100 yard SR SEC back have 50 less attempts than he did even as a Soph? Not to mention his blocking. Why the previous season the QB didn’t have an issue giving the top 2 RB’s nearly double the carries he had but this season he was just keeping it himself? Either it was the reads given by the defenses or the HC didn’t adjust for that for the RB’s. Or the HC just let the QB do what he wanted and that’s not a good sign either. So within that discussion, then I also think the HC should have been more balanced with who actually ran the ball with the play calling or adjusting the read.

Listen, I agree with a lot of your points. Bitching about the coach and Monday-morning quarterbacking is what message boards do. Dan's been roasted on here on the reg since the start. Lately some of the opinions being presented as facts are ridiculous.

Now that Dan reached consensus "pretty damn good coach" status around here remember that you can be rightfully second-guessed for your roster moves and play-calling -- and still be a pretty damn good coach.

Joe has a lot to clean up as our OC, but I expect him to do it. As our HC, I really like what I've seen so far. I like the staff he built and back-filled. I like the recruiting effort and results. We'll find out a lot more in year 2.

[sandwolf]

.....other than that other than that the right plays were called a lot and our WRs and QB were not capable.

If the WR's and QB were not capable, then the right plays were not called.


We did what Mullen did every year beat who you are supposed too and sneak past a few SEC opponents.

No, we didn't beat everybody we were supposed to. In year 1, Moorhead lost almost as many games that we were favored in as Dan did in 9 years.

[deadheaddawg]

Joe has a lot to clean up as our OC, but I expect him to do it. As our HC, I really like what I've seen so far. I like the staff he built and back-filled. I like the recruiting effort and results. We'll find out a lot more in year 2.

Nice post.

And to the "we wasted the best talent we have ever had" crowd.....you are acting like 2018 was our mountain, never to be reached again. We were very talented on Defense. Not so much on offense. Mullen would have done better, but that was a team mullen built for his style. Also Mullen isn't a first year coach anymore. But a lot of these snowflake whiney pants are acting like last years team was a once in a lifetime opportunity...….And I'm sorry, but I really hope that isn't the programs high water mark for talent, because it wasn't a very balanced talented team.

I am much more concerned with the long term direction of the program than I am with one year. The recruiting, the staff, the offensive philosophy, ect. I want to be a better program than one that considers our 2018 offensive talent to be part of our "best" team ever. Because that's a very low bar

[basedog]

Yes, if Joe or Lemonis or any of our other coaches are perusing EliteDawgs and messageboards for pats on the back, please leave now.

LOL, I've got vCash thinking they have way more important things to do.

Hold my beer Clint so I want run over anyone**

[CadaverDawg]

It not about pats on the back, its about fans not understanding the basic common sense stuff. I do hope Elitedawgs is not representative of the majority of our fans, but if it is, then as a fan base we are not smart enough to deserve a decent coach.

Again, ANYONE here thinking they know how good Moorhead will be long term IS A STUPID PERSON.

ANYONE saying they know he will be a failure or a success IS A STUPID PERSON

So pats on the back do not matter. What matters are idiot fans that clearly have no clue about how football works, being so vocal. I can understand passion. I can understand being a fan. I can't understand stupidity. We have a ton of stupid fans. We have stupid fans starting stupid threads like this. I wish those people would go find something more suited for their intelligence level. Like paint by numbers.

Who said Joe wouldn't be good long term? Maybe read before posting, or else YOU are the stupid person. I said last year was a failure....I didn't say Joe wouldn't turn it around. I also would have said it was a failure if Dan or anyone else was the coach. If fans are "stupid" for pointing out obvious stuff and saying it was a disappointment, I guess all fans are stupid.

[Todd4State]

Nice post.

And to the "we wasted the best talent we have ever had" crowd.....you are acting like 2018 was our mountain, never to be reached again. We were very talented on Defense. Not so much on offense. Mullen would have done better, but that was a team mullen built for his style. Also Mullen isn't a first year coach anymore. But a lot of these snowflake whiney pants are acting like last years team was a once in a lifetime opportunity...….And I'm sorry, but I really hope that isn't the programs high water mark for talent, because it wasn't a very balanced talented team.

I am much more concerned with the long term direction of the program than I am with one year. The recruiting, the staff, the offensive philosophy, ect. I want to be a better program than one that considers our 2018 offensive talent to be part of our "best" team ever. Because that's a very low bar

Very well said.

And it's all so completely short sighted poor ol' Mississippi State we only get one shot in football mentality.

There's too much reliance on "history" with MSU football and not enough trying to figure out how to replicate the good parts of MSU- 2014 offense and 2018 defense- and putting two units like that together on the SAME team at the SAME time- rather than just assuming that things happen in "once in a lifetime" cycles for us. Which is not even historically accurate when we look at 1980, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2010, and 2014. We actually average a "once in a lifetime" team about once every seven years or so. And that's just my personal metric and never mind the other multiple at least 8 win teams that we have had since 1980.


So the solution is for us again to balance recruiting on BOTH sides of the ball at a high level and actually hold lazy coaches that don't recruit well accountable. With what we seem to be doing in recruiting which I think will also continue to improve with time we could absolutely take the steps towards being a consistent 9 win team but 2021.

[Liverpooldawg]

All 3 are defensive players, and we had the #1 D in the country. They did their job for sure.

This is correct. Our offensive talent was nowhere close to what we had on D.

[Liverpooldawg]

Nice post.

And to the "we wasted the best talent we have ever had" crowd.....you are acting like 2018 was our mountain, never to be reached again. We were very talented on Defense. Not so much on offense. Mullen would have done better, but that was a team mullen built for his style. Also Mullen isn't a first year coach anymore. But a lot of these snowflake whiney pants are acting like last years team was a once in a lifetime opportunity...….And I'm sorry, but I really hope that isn't the programs high water mark for talent, because it wasn't a very balanced talented team.

I am much more concerned with the long term direction of the program than I am with one year. The recruiting, the staff, the offensive philosophy, ect. I want to be a better program than one that considers our 2018 offensive talent to be part of our "best" team ever. Because that's a very low bar

Best post on 2018 football I have ever seen. If you followed Joe at all before he got here you HAD to know what we had on offense was the epitome of a square peg round hole situation. It wasn't going to be that great had it been a round peg and a round hole. There wasn't ANY reason to expect our O to be better, except the main skill guys we had coming back in the RUNNING game were a year older. We still were going to be pretty much one dimensional no matter who the coach was. I don't think Mullen would have done that much better with it. He probably beats Florida, because he wouldn't have been coaching THERE. I don't think he beats any of our other loses but possibly Iowa. Now had we beaten Florida we would have moved up a spot, maybe two, in the bowl pecking order. That means a better opponent and we still lose the bowl. I said 8-4 regular seasongoing in. I thought we would beat Kentucky and lose to Auburn. Obviously I would like to win them all. But realistically I guess I'm reasonably satisfied with how last year turned out. Winning the bowl would have helped but I honestly thought it was a toss up. Their defense was pretty stout, and we know how that usually turned out for us. Their offense was better.

[deadheaddawg]

Who said Joe wouldn't be good long term? Maybe read before posting, or else YOU are the stupid person. I said last year was a failure....I didn't say Joe wouldn't turn it around. I also would have said it was a failure if Dan or anyone else was the coach. If fans are "stupid" for pointing out obvious stuff and saying it was a disappointment, I guess all fans are stupid.

lol. Bless your heart

Did you even read your own post? your second post in this thread you said he wasn't an offensive guru. Your third post you quoted and implied he is a loser. So its a safe assumption you don't have confidence in him long term. If you are going to have that avatar, you should at least be man enough to stick to your guns. Don't back track now

We don't have enough to decide those things. We don't know if he is a loser or a guru.

All this "slomo" and he's a loser stuff is absurd. last year wasn't even a failure. We won exactly how many we were supposed to.

All this baby whining and crying has gotten stale and old. also as a State fan, it's embarrassing. It's not just fans being passionate either. It's flat out stupidity.

[CadaverDawg]

lol. Bless your heart

Did you even read your own post? your second post in this thread you said he wasn't an offensive guru. Your third post you quoted and implied he is a loser. So its a safe assumption you don't have confidence in him long term. If you are going to have that avatar, you should at least be man enough to stick to your guns. Don't back track now

We don't have enough to decide those things. We don't know if he is a loser or a guru.

All this "slomo" and he's a loser stuff is absurd. last year wasn't even a failure. We won exactly how many we were supposed to.

All this baby whining and crying has gotten stale and old. also as a State fan, it's embarrassing. It's not just fans being passionate either. It's flat out stupidity.

Even though you aren't worth replying to....

I "implied" he's a loser?....that's another way of saying you put words in my mouth. Last year he underachieved, period. If you can't agree with that, you should probably Get your head out of your ass. And last year he was no "guru". So like I said, he failed last year, but that doesn't mean he will long term. Stop putting words in people's mouth. If you don't like a thread, don't read it...because you're the one crying about the negativity. If you can't handle poor coaching being called out without falling apart, maybe messageboard's aren't your thing...Or Genespage is a click away.

[deadheaddawg]

Even though you aren't worth replying to....

I "implied" he's a loser?....that's another way of saying you put words in my mouth. Last year he underachieved, period. If you can't agree with that, you should probably Get your head out of your ass. And last year he was no "guru". So like I said, he failed last year, but that doesn't mean he will long term. Stop putting words in people's mouth. If you don't like a thread, don't read it...because you're the one crying about the negativity. If you can't handle poor coaching being called out without falling apart, maybe messageboard's aren't your thing...Or Genespage is a click away.


Message boards are fine with me. It has always been interesting to me how so many people here see no issues with insulting coaches and players, but hate when they get insulted. I get it. Coaches and players are in the spotlight.....well we are all in the spotlight here.

I think bad posting should be called out just like bad coaching. A lot of people here have really underachieved this last year. One way of saying it is, all these people rehashing the same misguided BS about Moorhead are not message board gurus...and absolutely not football gurus

Hopefully those people can turn it around this year

[BrunswickDawg]

Message boards are fine with me. It has always been interesting to me how so many people here see no issues with insulting coaches and players, but hate when they get insulted. I get it. Coaches and players are in the spotlight.....well we are all in the spotlight here.

I think bad posting should be called out just like bad coaching. A lot of people here have really underachieved this last year. One way of saying it is, all these people rehashing the same misguided BS about Moorhead are not message board gurus...and absolutely not football gurus

Hopefully those people can turn it around this year

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to deadheaddawg again.

[Cooterpoot]

You change with the wind. You blasted Moorhead most the season and now you make excuses for him. At least met is consistent...

I didn?t blast him. I didn?t agree with everything either. Have have concerns about the QB coach as well as the offensive system. But bitching after one season does no good. He gets 3-4 years unless the wheels fall off. So people raising hell are wasting their time.

[tcdog70]

Wow, lots of JoMo defenders and excuse makers in here. Most of you guys saying we had shitty offensive players were the same ones predicting 10-11 wins bc we had more talent on both sides of the ball than we have ever had.

Ok

Look, our offense was lacking. But our 10 win season hinged on two dropped TDs. Catch those 2 wide ass opened passes and we win 10. So we have the same offense that won 8 that would have have won 10. ( if we catch those 2 passes)

If we win 10 then are you still pissed?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Look, our offense was lacking. But our 10 win season hinged on two dropped TDs. Catch those 2 wide ass opened passes and we win 10. So we have the same offense that won 8 that would have have won 10. ( if we catch those 2 passes)

If we win 10 then are you still pissed?

I'm not who you were asking, but I agree with Cadaver so I'll answer:

I try to look at the on field performance and not the end results (which are often affected by luck), though I'm human so I largely fail at that. If Mitchel had caught the ball vs UF and we won, I'd feel better but the total offensive performance for that game would still be way below what it should have been. And if Guidry had caught the ball vs Iowa I'd feel better, but it still would have been a massive underperformance from how badly we should have beaten them. And neither of those games accounts for the offensive disasters at Kentucky, LSU, or Bama, or the overall failure to use the RBs as we should, or the fact Moorhead seemed completely ignorant of Fitz's/the OT's shortcomings and unable to adjust to them even halfway through the year.

So yeah 10 wins would be nice and I'm sure I'd have it thrown in my face if I ever complained here, but the fact is the O was broken regardless of whether or not luck went our way those games

[Ari Gold]

Hopefully everyone can now put the rest the “Best Team of Our Lifetime”... It was the 2014 team.

Let’s get behind this 2019 team and this staff and this HC and keep moving forward.

[BrunswickDawg]

Hopefully everyone can now put the rest the “Best Team of Our Lifetime”... It was the 2014 team.

Let’s get behind this 2019 team and this staff and this HC and keep moving forward.

This ^^^^

[msstate7]

This ^^^^

Based on the draft? Both had 5 players taken, but there's the breakdown:

2014 (2015 draft): 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 6th
2018 (2019 draft): 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 6th

In fact, even if you include the 2016 draft, you still don't get to 4 first 2 round picks of this year's team. Hell, you can throw in the 2017 draft too, and you still won't get there.

[CadaverDawg]

Look, our offense was lacking. But our 10 win season hinged on two dropped TDs. Catch those 2 wide ass opened passes and we win 10. So we have the same offense that won 8 that would have have won 10. ( if we catch those 2 passes)

If we win 10 then are you still pissed?

See the_real_msu_is_us's post. I agree with him. But also, we weren't 2 dropped passes from 10 wins...y'all have taken that and grown it in to legend. Neither of those passes or catches end the game. Iowa and Florida both still had multiple chances to win if we catch those....hell, one of them would have only tied the game if I remember correctly, plus everyone that isn't trying to make the statement you are, knows that the other team's strategy and play calling after those drops would be different without a lead. It's really silly for our fans to keep going around saying "Two dropped passes from 10 wins", when you know thats quite a stretching of the truth.

But regardless, if you can't open your eyes and watch last year's games and see that Joe's offense was shit and that we grossly underachieved, I don't know what to tell you. I'm actually stunned so many are arguing this point. People calling me stupid, when the stupid ones are the ones that can't just admit that the O sucked and we underachieved. I'm not saying I don't think he can turn it around, and I'm not saying I won't support him....I simply said last year should have been better and would have been better if our supposed "guru" had done his job and adapted the offense to his veteran personnel to Win The Most Games he could, instead of Crooming the season by being a hard head and forcing his system on guys that couldn't run it. IT WAS JOE'S FAULT. period. Anybody arguing that, is trying too hard to argue. Bc it's not debateable.

And as for those asking me why I keep bringing it up, and telling me I'm an idiot....thats fine, sometimes a little offseason pot stirring drives clicks and discussion.....the EliteDawgs creators can PM me for my address to send the royalty check, haha.

I hope Joe gets it going, and you all know I'll be right there cheering them on....but I'll never stop calling a spade a spade, good or bad. I'll leave you guys to this debate now, won't ever have everyone agree, that's what makes places like these so much fun.
HailState

[tcdog70]

See the_real_msu_is_us's post. I agree with him. But also, we weren't 2 dropped passes from 10 wins...y'all have taken that and grown it in to legend. Neither of those passes or catches end the game. Iowa and Florida both still had multiple chances to win if we catch those....hell, one of them would have only tied the game if I remember correctly, plus everyone that isn't trying to make the statement you are, knows that the other team's strategy and play calling after those drops would be different without a lead. It's really silly for our fans to keep going around saying "Two dropped passes from 10 wins", when you know thats quite a stretching of the truth.

But regardless, if you can't open your eyes and watch last year's games and see that Joe's offense was shit and that we grossly underachieved, I don't know what to tell you. I'm actually stunned so many are arguing this point. People calling me stupid, when the stupid ones are the ones that can't just admit that the O sucked and we underachieved. I'm not saying I don't think he can turn it around, and I'm not saying I won't support him....I simply said last year should have been better and would have been better if our supposed "guru" had done his job and adapted the offense to his veteran personnel to Win The Most Games he could, instead of Crooming the season by being a hard head and forcing his system on guys that couldn't run it. IT WAS JOE'S FAULT. period. Anybody arguing that, is trying too hard to argue. Bc it's not debateable.

And as for those asking me why I keep bringing it up, and telling me I'm an idiot....thats fine, sometimes a little offseason pot stirring drives clicks and discussion.....the EliteDawgs creators can PM me for my address to send the royalty check, haha.

I hope Joe gets it going, and you all know I'll be right there cheering them on....but I'll never stop calling a spade a spade, good or bad. I'll leave you guys to this debate now, won't ever have everyone agree, that's what makes places like these so much fun.
HailState

I agree, our offense was counter productive. We had players to have a decent offense. If we ran a call a play and run it offense. The RPO offense cannot be run in the SEC with WRs that are sun belt talents. You knew that and I knew that--why in the wide World of sports did nobody on our staff know that? This staff had a chance to go get a good JUCO wr this last recruiting system but they did not. We still have below average WRs. So no matter who is the QB the RPO offense will sux.
The fact the Joe refuses to run a QB sneak with the all time rushing QB causes me to have a WTF moment.at least 5 times last year QB sneak would have kept the drive alive or scored a TD.

But know matter how shitty Joe's offense was last year we should have won 10. And that at MSU is a great season.

[BrunswickDawg]

Based on the draft? Both had 5 players taken, but there's the breakdown:

2014 (2015 draft): 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 6th
2018 (2019 draft): 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 6th

In fact, even if you include the 2016 draft, you still don't get to 4 first 2 round picks of this year's team. Hell, you can throw in the 2017 draft too, and you still won't get there.

I'm agreeing with the "move on" sentiment.

[IMissJack]

5th year Senior QB, great RB's, veteran OL, stable of TE's, #1 Juco WR, "offensive genius", #1 D in nation, 3 1st round picks....

8-5

Make all the excuses you want, but we didn't have to have a bunch of 1st rounders on O to beat UK, Fla, Iowa. You know it, I know it.

These players on offense were not able to play the style of O that Moorhead wanted. My biggest disappointment was his inability to play a style of O that they could run and then bring his O on gradually until he had the horses to do it. I don't know if it was hardheadedness or what, but a blind man in a well could see that.

[Ari Gold]

Again nothing against the 2018 team. We has some big time ballers on this squad and still do

But compare the 2014 starting 22 to the 2018 starting 22.
And tell me which team you want to roll into battle with .

[msstate7]

I'm agreeing with the "move on" sentiment.

Yeah, it's probably time. Is there anyone here that wants my opinion on 2018 again? Haha

[smootness]

Again nothing against the 2018 team. We has some big time ballers on this squad and still do

But compare the 2014 starting 22 to the 2018 starting 22.
And tell me which team you want to roll into battle with .

We think of the players on the 2014 team more fondly because they won more.

But 2018 has the most talent top to bottom.

[Tbonewannabe]

Lol, keep defending Joe. Dan won more than Joe did with that QB and a worse D. Maybe you're the one spouting "dumb ass shit". But carry on, this is entertaining watching the excuse train

Dan won 1 more game and if Guidry catches a pass that every other SEC WR would catch then we win 10 games. We actually put up some points on a VERY Good Iowa defense. Dan also played a shit ton easier schedule to get that one extra win.

I don't know why people don't understand that Bama and LSU in Starkville is not equal to Bama in Tuscaloosa and LSU at night in Death Valley.

You also have a drastically improved UK team in Lexington instead of Starkville. That same team beat Mullen at UF for UK's first win in 34 years.

[Tbonewannabe]

We think of the players on the 2014 team more fondly because they won more.

But 2018 has the most talent top to bottom.

2014 had the most important player though. QB trumps any other position in football. Dak took a group in 2015 that were probably about as talented as 2016 only he won 9 games instead of 6.

[Tbonewannabe]

Based on the draft? Both had 5 players taken, but there's the breakdown:

2014 (2015 draft): 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 6th
2018 (2019 draft): 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 6th

In fact, even if you include the 2016 draft, you still don't get to 4 first 2 round picks of this year's team. Hell, you can throw in the 2017 draft too, and you still won't get there.

Do you think any player on this year's team will have the impact that Dak had his first year in the NFL? Let me remind you that Dak broke NFL rookie records that had stood for a long while. I would trade Simmons and Sweat for Dak on last years team.

As bad as everyone thinks Joe's offense was, Dak probably puts up at least 30 points per game.

[Ari Gold]

We think of the players on the 2014 team more fondly because they won more.

But 2018 has the most talent top to bottom.

Take it player by player / position by position .
don’t even try on offense it’s not even close
Defense 2018 will get the nod . But it’s a lot closer than you think .. a lot closer . That bunch was talented

Again I’m not tryin to defend our record last year , just putting and end to the false perception that 2018 was the greatest team ...
yes we underachieved but give me the 2014 against the 2018 team all day

[RougeDawg]

Pretty sure we only averaged a national best 12 points a game allowed. Any offense with a pulse above a flat line should have won 10 games giving up that few points. You can defer and deflect all you want but just about any coach in the nation would have won more games. That?s not even considering what an ?offensive guru? should have done. It?s pretty pathetic and sad. The only defense for a coach coming in with the team we had and going 8-5 would be that the head coach was defensive minded. Period.

[R2Dawg]

Based on the draft? Both had 5 players taken, but there's the breakdown:

2014 (2015 draft): 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 6th
2018 (2019 draft): 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 6th

In fact, even if you include the 2016 draft, you still don't get to 4 first 2 round picks of this year's team. Hell, you can throw in the 2017 draft too, and you still won't get there.

We also had 9 FA contracts this year, how many in 2014, don't think it was that many.

[deadheaddawg]

It's sad so many people here care more about trying to capitalize on 1 year because of defensive talent than the long term health of the program.

It's sad these low attention span snowflakes wanted to put all their eggs in one 2018 basket instead of hiring someone for the long term.

It's sad because it's the whoa is me poor old Mississippi State crowd who has accepted defeat and considered the 2018 team as the top of the mountain in State Potential.

Sorry. I just want more than that.

When you hire a highly regarded young up and comer you are doing it with more than one year in mind. And you should be smart enough to understand the adjustment of everything may not be smooth. You should also be smart enough to know we haven't seen enough to know what we have long term.

But lots of y'all ain't that smart.

[StateDawg44]

Pretty sure we only averaged a national best 12 points a game allowed. Any offense with a pulse above a flat line should have won 10 games giving up that few points. You can defer and deflect all you want but just about any coach in the nation would have won more games. That?s not even considering what an ?offensive guru? should have done. It?s pretty pathetic and sad. The only defense for a coach coming in with the team we had and going 8-5 would be that the head coach was defensive minded. Period.


I really hope one day you can get over it and stop whining and fingerpointing and can look forward instead of backwards one day. Nothing you've said is factual so you realize you may be right or may be wrong.

I think most people on here know which of those it is since things are so black and white in the real world. Have fun being miserable with your outlook and not moving forward though.

[basedog]

Time to just move on! Message board for discussion or not, I'm looking ahead not back and so should you guys!

You guys saying isn't doesn't matter but yet cry like a baby over last year which is history!

It's baseball time!

[Tbonewannabe]

3.5 ppg is a pretty big gap, especially when you consider how badly we blew out teams like ULL; the larger those scores were, the lower the scores were vs other teams to get a given average. Mullen didnt blow out non-cons as bad so his scoring was more consistent.

Also I will add that Moorhead had the benefit of the same '17 team, plus a year of experience and + guidry. All else being equal '18 should put up better numbers for that reason alone

But the 17 and 18 schedules weren't equal. Just curious, would you rather play LSU and Bama at home or on the road and why? Mullen's 8th year with it being his entire team he built, he scored 3 points at Bama. Does that mean that Mullen sucked when he had 8 years to build his team?

[MedDawg]

You can only scheme so much around:

1. A QB that makes improper reads in the running and passing game and makes poor throws almost 40% of the time.

2. Poor OT's. Including a guy that started at LT last year that is having trouble winning a job at RT this spring.

3. Receivers that are inconsistent catching the ball.

Even Dan couldn't score consistently on great defenses with those same players basically. Everyone forgets Georgia and Auburn 2017.

What's the adjustment for those three major issues? Hand the ball off up the middle every time? That's not going to work consistently in today's game. It just isn't. You have to have players that can at least function as SEC players on an average level for things to work and we didn't get that at four major positions on the offense.

This. In 2018 we had more opponents with good defenses: Bama, LSU, UK, UF, and Iowa. Actually Auburn and Texas A&M too. Also, our overall schedule was tougher in 2018 than 2017 (Sagarin SOS #11 in 2018, #46 in 2017).

Defenses learned to stack against the run with Fitzgerald as QB. Better defenses stopped/slowed us in 2017, and they learned even better that Fitz couldn't pass well enough, so they stacked against the run even more in 2018.



P.S. Moorhead deserves credit for State's #1 defense in 2018 too.

[Tbonewannabe]

This. In 2018 we had more opponents with good defenses: Bama, LSU, UK, UF, and Iowa. Actually Auburn and Texas A&M too. Also, our overall schedule was tougher in 2018 than 2017 (Sagarin SOS #11 in 2018, #46 in 2017).

Defenses learned to stack against the run with Fitzgerald as QB. Better defenses stopped/slowed us in 2017, and they learned even better that Fitz couldn't pass well enough, so they stacked against the run even more in 2018.



P.S. Moorhead deserves credit for State's #1 defense in 2018 too.

People seem to disregard the fact we played most of those tough defenses on the road also. Looking at the last decade, you can probably factor in a 1 to 2 TD difference when playing a top 25 team on the road vs at home.

P.S. - Does anyone think that we ran slow clock to give our defense the maximum advantage since he knew that was the way we could win? We actually improved our yards per play on offense. Running less plays would result in less offense anyway. Honestly, UF is the toughest loss. 1. It was at home and 2. It was the worst defense we lost to. Mullen did know the strengths and weaknesses of the team so there is inherent disadvantage in that game.

[Really Clark?]

People seem to disregard the fact we played most of those tough defenses on the road also. Looking at the last decade, you can probably factor in a 1 to 2 TD difference when playing a top 25 team on the road vs at home.

P.S. - Does anyone think that we ran slow clock to give our defense the maximum advantage since he knew that was the way we could win? We actually improved our yards per play on offense. Running less plays would result in less offense anyway. Honestly, UF is the toughest loss. 1. It was at home and 2. It was the worst defense we lost to. Mullen did know the strengths and weaknesses of the team so there is inherent disadvantage in that game.

Moorehead ran the clock down prior to coming here. He is a very methodical play caller and wants to check into perfect match ups, which causes the clock to run down. It’s his style.

The yards per play in conference games were just a .1 of a yard difference from 2017, basically the same. When you run 120 less plays in a season in conference games, that’s loss overall. You also had your defense playing 60+ more snaps this season compared to last, so you real lose efficiency overall.

[RougeDawg]

I really hope one day you can get over it and stop whining and fingerpointing and can look forward instead of backwards one day. Nothing you've said is factual so you realize you may be right or may be wrong.

I think most people on here know which of those it is since things are so black and white in the real world. Have fun being miserable with your outlook and not moving forward though.

Where am I whining? You must have a recently revised edition of a Webster?s. It amazes me how people like you and deadhead can read someone posting what Stevie Wonder can see, interject your participation trophy brainwashed thoughts, and say people are whining and complaining. When someone points out the obvious, and the obvious is not positive, that is not whining. I?m sorry you have learned what to think and respond rather than how to think and logically respond.

When someone points out something that occurred you cannot say they are whining because they state it. If your opinion is altered by some illogical reason, it does not change fact. There are multiple sides(opinions) to everything but only one side to facts.

I?ll give you a pass if you were in a coma during the auburn game last year. Any MSU fan who was in a coma during auburn and does not have an inkling of the game could come to the conclusion as you and Dhead. But if you watched Auburn and still have your opinion, your opinion is not based on fact and therefore is not correct. Incorrect inputs to come to a conclusion equals incorrect conclusions. No other way around it.

[StateDawg44]

Where am I whining? You must have a recently revised edition of a Webster?s. It amazes me how people like you and deadhead can read someone posting what Stevie Wonder can see, interject your participation trophy brainwashed thoughts, and say people are whining and complaining. When someone points out the obvious, and the obvious is not positive, that is not whining. I?m sorry you have learned what to think and respond rather than how to think and logically respond.

When someone points out something that occurred you cannot say they are whining because they state it. If your opinion is altered by some illogical reason, it does not change fact. There are multiple sides(opinions) to everything but only one side to facts.

I?ll give you a pass if you were in a coma during the auburn game last year. Any MSU fan who was in a coma during auburn and does not have an inkling of the game could come to the conclusion as you and Dhead. But if you watched Auburn and still have your opinion, your opinion is not based on fact and therefore is not correct. Incorrect inputs to come to a conclusion equals incorrect conclusions. No other way around it.


100% quoted the wrong person looking back now. Sorry about that. Definitely deserve it.


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