I've got to get this rant off my chest

[Coach34]

For those scoring at home(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Gene and Steve advised Devinner to turn the school that they base their livelihood on into the NCAA. Even spun to their subscribers what a good guy Devinner was. Why did they do that? To try and ruin Paul Jones and 247.

2. Devinner listens, blows the whistle on one of his own players that is supposed to be able to trust him.

3. A "Rogue Booster" gets disassociated from the school when he clams up and keeps his mouth shut.

So what's the fallout from Gene and Steve's actions?

Gene and Steve continue to have access to the program and school they make money off of. Even after being the catalyst that brought about probation.

Devinner has turned alot of people off and he is now being investigated by authorities much bigger than the NCAA

Redmond sits for 18 games


You expect Mullen to win and compete with the LSU's, Bama's, and Georgia's of the SEC- when we have our own fansites putting us on probation? Seriously? How do you expect him to do it? How can you with a straight face expect us to recruit like the big boys? The Ole Miss fansites help their program. They do everything possible and more to help their program- and ours puts us on ****ing probation!!!!!!

Ole Miss flew Treadwell and Kimchee from the UA All-Star game to Birmingham for the bowl game and they had a place to stay and partied their asses off. Could you imagine what would have happened to us had we done that with Mac Alexander or another top recruit? Had Bracky bumped into them he would have called the NCAA from the stadium that day.

You see the penalties Miami, Oregon, and others get as opposed to us? And you really think we are going to be allowed to win the SEC title in your lifetime? No way in hell it's gonna happen. You dont turn the SEC into a half billion dollar business without alot of manipulation from the SEC office.

Mullen doesnt want to coordinate with boosters- he has to have plausible deniability. That's why he is a shitty recruiter- not because of his personality, not because of Hevesy, not because we dont recruit 5-star players, etc...Freeze doesnt give a shit about plausible deniability- that's why their boosters are so in sync with their recruiting. And that's why they get shit done.

Some of you need to wake up as to what is really going on out there. We are the problem- we are why we are losing. Not because Mullen called the zone-read or doesnt stomp up and down the sidelines. **** me I need a drink and some tylenol. Rant over

[SignalToNoise]

http://i.imgur.com/PjcS8.gif

[CJDAWG85]

Agree 100%

[TheRef]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/costanza-clapping.gif

[CadaverDawg]

Definitely in agreement....so how do we take the next step as a fan base and do something to change it?

I'll start by tweeting this thread to Stricklin. What else? Let's take the frustration and turn it in to something that can actually lead to some change. I'm tired of this shit too.

http://mematic.com/_/gifs/applause/applause-gif-3.gif

[quickstrike2]

Slow clap. Nail on head.

[ckDOG]

For those scoring at home(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Gene and Steve advised Devinner to turn the school that they base their livelihood on into the NCAA. Even spun to their subscribers what a good guy Devinner was. Why did they do that? To try and ruin Paul Jones and 247.

2. Devinner listens, blows the whistle on one of his own players that is supposed to be able to trust him.

3. A "Rogue Booster" gets disassociated from the school when he clams up and keeps his mouth shut.

So what's the fallout from Gene and Steve's actions?

If this is true, why do Gene and Steve have access to the program? Pretty easy to blackball them from their information sources if they really did this. So there are only two realities: 1) this is false or 2) we have the dumbest administration (and alumni, indirectly) involved in major college athletics. Gene and Steve have a luxury. If they abuse it and hurt the program out of self interest, they get banned. Simple.

[Coach34]

If this is true, why do Gene and Steve have access to the program? Pretty easy to blackball them from their information sources if they really did this. So there are only two realities: 1) this is false or 2) we have the dumbest administration (and alumni, indirectly) involved in major college athletics. Gene and Steve have a luxury. If they abuse it and hurt the program out of self interest, they get banned. Simple.

BeastMan linked a story Gene did on Devinner. There were chats and posts on Genespage with Rosebowl defending Devinner time and again. They were best pals last Spring

[ckDOG]

BeastMan linked a story Gene did on Devinner. There were chats and posts on Genespage with Rosebowl defending Devinner time and again. They were best pals last Spring

Why do they still have access to the program then? If true, they should have been locked out of the Bryan Building, practice facilities, and banned from attending games yesterday. They have no right to be there...

[Coach34]

Why do they still have access to the program then? If true, they should have been locked out of the Bryan Building, practice facilities, and banned from attending games yesterday. They have no right to be there...

I cant answer that question- the Bryan Building will have to

[MadDawg]

1. Gene and Steve advised Devinner to turn the school that they base their livelihood on into the NCAA. Even spun to their subscribers what a good guy Devinner was. Why did they do that? To try and ruin Paul Jones and 247.


How would this destroy Paul Jones and 247? Did it work?

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

You expect Mullen to win and compete with the LSU's, Bama's, and Georgia's of the SEC- when we have our own fansites putting us on probation? Seriously? How do you expect him to do it? How can you with a straight face expect us to recruit like the big boys? The Ole Miss fansites help their program. They do everything possible and more to help their program- and ours puts us on ****ing probation!!!!!!

Ole Miss flew Treadwell and Kimchee from the UA All-Star game to Birmingham for the bowl game and they had a place to stay and partied their asses off. Could you imagine what would have happened to us had we done that with Mac Alexander or another top recruit? Had Bracky bumped into them he would have called the NCAA from the stadium that day.

You see the penalties Miami, Oregon, and others get as opposed to us? And you really think we are going to be allowed to win the SEC title in your lifetime? No way in hell it's gonna happen. You dont turn the SEC into a half billion dollar business without alot of manipulation from the SEC office.

Mullen doesnt want to coordinate with boosters- he has to have plausible deniability. That's why he is a shitty recruiter- not because of his personality, not because of Hevesy, not because we dont recruit 5-star players, etc...Freeze doesnt give a shit about plausible deniability- that's why their boosters are so in sync with their recruiting. And that's why they get shit done.

Some of you need to wake up as to what is really going on out there. We are the problem- we are why we are losing. Not because Mullen called the zone-read or doesnt stomp up and down the sidelines. **** me I need a drink and some tylenol. Rant over

So it sounds like Mullen is the problem. I want a coach that doesn't give a shit about plausible deniability if the NCAA does not have the ability to catch a school anyways.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

How would this destroy Paul Jones and 247? Did it work?

Doubtful....it seems like 247 is becoming the place to go to for football recruiting. Most people just seem to ignore Rivals and Scout for the most part.

[Coach34]

How would this destroy Paul Jones and 247? Did it work?

Hack posted alot on 247 and they tried to tie Jones into Redmond and Devinner- and no, they didnt do a damn thing but hurt the football program. Wardlaw joined in the blame game as well, hoping to save his site.

[CJDAWG85]

So it sounds like Mullen is the problem. I want a coach that doesn't give a shit about plausible deniability if the NCAA does not have the ability to catch a school anyways.

Or we could do a complete overhaul of our Compliance Dept.

[Coach34]

So it sounds like Mullen is the problem. I want a coach that doesn't give a shit about plausible deniability if the NCAA does not have the ability to catch a school anyways.

and there you have the reason behind the big push to bring in Hud....elementary my dear Watson

[Op4isabitch]

100% on the money. I will add not only are some of the rebel boosters in line with the recruiting, as we talked about Coach.....they organize it!

[Dawgface]

and there you have the reason behind the big push to bring in Hud....elementary my dear Watson

Are the big money boys behind this push?

[notsofarawaydawg]

Don't forget that asshole Matt Stevens from that shitty paper in Columbus.

Also, I saw a tweet from someone associated with our baseball program proclaiming Gene as a "great supporter" of that program. Had a picture of Gene sitting in the dugout interviewing a coach or somebody associated with the team. BULLSHIT !!

[smootness]

All of this sounds like a whole lot of conspiracy talk.

Do I think Gene and Steve handled things well in the aftermath of the De'Vinner stuff? No. Do I think Bracky Brett is the best compliance guy in college football? No.

But come on...you honestly believe that Gene and Steve were the primary forces behind getting us turned into the NCAA? And that despite that, they have at least as much access to the athletic department as they've ever had, with someone like Cohen allowing each member of his team/staff to be personally interviewed by Gene?

That is fairly insane. Seems pretty elementary to me to take a look at the assumptions and think, hmmm, maybe what I think isn't 100% correct.

We're basing this on the fact that Gene wrote a fluff piece on De'Vinner? Do I think Gene/Steve were friends with De'Vinner and probably liked the access he provided? Yes. Did it cloud their judgement of the situation? Probably. But you honestly believe they created this whole thing out of thin air just to attack a poster on a rival site? Good gosh.

Why don't we take a couple of steps back and not just assume we know everything. All I see constantly from certain segments of our fanbase is that they make assumptions on how they think things operate (generally a dumbed-down version of things so as best to blame one certain person or entity), then raise cane and claim things need to change...because of what they assume to be true.

We don't know any of this. So maybe we can just calm down.

Or maybe you're right. Maybe we have the one athletic department and football coach in the country who actively want to hurt our program. Maybe we like giving ourselves penalties for no reason and want our fans to turn us in. Maybe Mullen doesn't really care about winning; maybe he's gotten completely lazy and is just cashing a paycheck at this point.

Pretty unbelievably freaking amazing that with all that, we're still putting a decent product on the field despite being arguably the 2nd-worst program in the history of the conference with a budget that most of the rest of the conference laughs at.

[Big4Dawg]

Okay - now with that said - what can we do to help, as a fan base to help?

A rant with no "call-to-action" is just that, a rant.

Everyone complains about our boosters and etc, but no one every says what needs to be done.

[Jack Lambert]

So it sounds like Mullen is the problem. I want a coach that doesn't give a shit about plausible deniability if the NCAA does not have the ability to catch a school anyways.

Maybe Mullen doesn't give a crap but the way I understood the post was he had to give a crap because the people backing him will not back him like the way Ole Miss backs Freeze.

[Coach34]

We're basing this on the fact that Gene wrote a fluff piece on De'Vinner? .

No, we're basing it on what Devinner straight up told Hack. We're basing it on things Steve said last Spring defending Devinner when all this broke. That's what it is based on

And to add- turning us in wasnt Steve and Gene's initial priority- but after things got underway, they encouraged him to talk to the NCAA and Press with it. They did this to hurt another website and had no regard for the impact on the University. None at all

[PassInterference]

Okay - now with that said - what can we do to help, as a fan base to help?

A rant with no "call-to-action" is just that, a rant.

Everyone complains about our boosters and etc, but no one every says what needs to be done.


What needs to be done is

1) Fans need to leave Scout and Rivals, which were the main sources that hurt us on the DeVinner deal.

2) Alumni and boosters need to complain to Stricklin and Keenum over our approach to compliance.

[Coach34]

Okay - now with that said - what can we do to help, as a fan base to help?

A rant with no "call-to-action" is just that, a rant.

Everyone complains about our boosters and etc, but no one every says what needs to be done.


Our guys have to find a way to get organized and on the same page. We dont have that. We have factions here- factions there. We are not united- and must find a way to make that happen.

[BeastMan]

I would like to add that Gene has more pull than a lot of folks realize. He has some power in his realm.

[BeastMan]

What needs to be done is

1) Fans need to leave Scout and Rivals, which were the main sources that hurt us on the DeVinner deal.

2) Alumni and boosters need to complain to Stricklin and Keenum over our approach to compliance.


False on rivals. It was run by Logan at the time and he was the only guy that stayed completely out of it. Now Robby runs rivals and is a dang good guy. I wont go with anything that doesn't support him.

[PassInterference]

You're right. My bad.

[smootness]

Uh...perhaps De'Vinner, who is a known liar and shady dude, lied to Hack so as not to make it seem as though he was just grinding his axe?

Or perhaps Hack has his own axe to grind?

Sorry, but that story just doesn't add up, so unless someone can give me something more concrete than all this 'he said, he said', I'm not buying it.

[BulldogBear]

I'm always afraid that our boosters are too dang sloppy when they "help" and our a lot of our fans don't know how to keep anything on the downlow when they hear rumors. We just freakin' plaster 'em all over social media and may be just as guilty as anyone for drawing attention to ourselves.

[Vandownbytheriver]

So the point of this is to paint Steve and Gene as the bad guys and Paul as the poor innocent guy who just happened to be associated with the wrong guy on his board?

[Vandownbytheriver]

False on rivals. It was run by Logan at the time and he was the only guy that stayed completely out of it. Now Robby runs rivals and is a dang good guy. I wont go with anything that doesn't support him.

Actually John never said a damn word either, but because of the Wardlaw connection he got the wrong end of the stick. The only two people who know if Paul and Hack knew what was going on was Paul and Hack. It's easy to see why some would assume considering the access Paul allowed Hack to have on his board. Honestly, I don't give a shit one way or the other. Everyone involved here came out looking like idiots. Paul for having a moderator doing these things with or without knowledge and the other 3 dipshits for using a personal grudge to try to ruin a rival website.

[dawgs]

You see the penalties Miami, Oregon, and others get as opposed to us? And you really think we are going to be allowed to win the SEC title in your lifetime? No way in hell it's gonna happen. You dont turn the SEC into a half billion dollar business without alot of manipulation from the SEC office.


not to nitpick, because i do generally agree, but miami did self-impose much tougher penalties than just what the ncaa handed down today. i know they imposed a bowl ban and like 10 scholarships.

i love that if ohio st had self-imposed the bowl ban in 2011 when they went to a mediocre bowl, they'd probably not gotten the bowl ban last year when they'd been in the BCS and maybe in the title game.

[Maroonthirteen]

I am sure some of yall have met Gene. I crossed paths with him a few times back when his site got big. My impression....he seems like the type that would turn in another MSU fan, web site, whatever to the school compliance or NCAA because he thinks that is the right thing to do and what is best for MSU.......in his mind. I thought the guy was extremely naive and to borrow a term from my youth...nerdy. I don't think the guy turned over this information and at same time could care less about the effect on MSU. I am sure he cared about the effect on MSU. The guy just thought it was the right thing to do AND you are probably right.......give him (the only up standing internet journalist in his mind) sole access to MSU. Again, He is extremely naive.....he probably did and does think Devinner is his buddy. Devinner was probably playing those two rubes for all the recruiting information he could get and give back to his Rebel friends. Gene probably does think asking about pizza toppings and movies is entertaining for the recruits and that all schools play by the rules. Anyway, I digress.......yall get the point.

But yeah, I agree. Regardless of his intentions with turning the information in..... He needs to be run out of business. Like I said, the real world of recruiting is way beyond Gene and our compliance staff. They both need to go.

[BeastMan]

Actually John never said a damn word either, but because of the Wardlaw connection he got the wrong end of the stick. The only two people who know if Paul and Hack knew what was going on was Paul and Hack. It's easy to see why some would assume considering the access Paul allowed Hack to have on his board. Honestly, I don't give a shit one way or the other. Everyone involved here came out looking like idiots. Paul for having a moderator doing these things with or without knowledge and the other 3 dipshits for using a personal grudge to try to ruin a rival website.

Correct that John stayed completely out of it as well. I was just referencing the 2 sites the other poster said. Me correcting my statement would be: John and Logan were the only ones who stayed completely out of it.


One thing you've said before that has always stuck with me is how running a recruiting website, particularly the big networks takes a certain type of personality. Competition and feuds runs rampant due to that type personality IMO.

[dawgs]

Or maybe you're right. Maybe we have the one athletic department and football coach in the country who actively want to hurt our program. Maybe we like giving ourselves penalties for no reason and want our fans to turn us in. Maybe Mullen doesn't really care about winning; maybe he's gotten completely lazy and is just cashing a paycheck at this point.


i don't think bracky wants to actively get us in trouble, i just think he's in over his head and is scared he's gonna get in trouble, so he wants to come forward with anything and everything and then overly self-impose penalties to avoid a potentially, but highly unlikely bigger hammer from the ncaa. compare what oregon did to what we did. not even close in severity. oregon wouldn't self-impose and the ncaa ended up given them much weaker penalties than what we got (granted kelly got a show cause penalty and if he went in and fell on the sword, then that could explain the difference, but he was in the NFL by then, but the rest of the program was largely unchanged, same assistants, same compliance, same AD, etc). we need a compliance guy that's not scared of the ncaa and has the balls and confidence to fight them.

[Vandownbytheriver]

Correct that John stayed completely out of it as well. I was just referencing the 2 sites the other poster said. Me correcting my statement would be: John and Logan were the only ones who stayed completely out of it.


One thing you've said before that has always stuck with me is how running a recruiting website, particularly the big networks takes a certain type of personality. Competition and feuds runs rampant due to that type personality IMO.

It does. You've done it before so you understand. You have to have a bit of a narcissistic personality to be in the biz. It's real easy to make it about you and not the kids you are interviewing.

[dawgs]

I am sure some of yall have met Gene. I crossed paths with him a few times back when his site got big. My impression....he seems like the type that would turn in another MSU fan, web site, whatever to the school compliance or NCAA because he thinks that is the right thing to do and what is best for MSU.......in his mind. I thought the guy was extremely naive and to borrow a term from my youth...nerdy. I don't think the guy turned over this information and at same time could care less about the effect on MSU. I am sure he cared about the effect on MSU. The guy just thought it was the right thing to do AND you are probably right.......give him (the only up standing internet journalist in his mind) sole access to MSU. Again, He is extremely naive.....he probably did and does think Devinner is his buddy. Devinner was probably playing those two rubes for all the recruiting information he could get and give back to his Rebel friends. Gene probably does think asking about pizza toppings and movies is entertaining for the recruits and that all schools play by the rules. Anyway, I digress.......yall get the point.

But yeah, I agree. Regardless of his intentions with turning the information in..... He needs to be run out of business. Like I said, the real world of recruiting is way beyond Gene and our compliance staff. They both need to go.

i know exactly what you mean, in fact i was trying to think of the best way to write it out, but you pretty much nailed it. he's a giant goober that doesn't even see all the dirty shit going on all around him.

[C222]

Delete. Already discussed.

[Coach34]

Uh...perhaps De'Vinner, who is a known liar and shady dude, lied to Hack so as not to make it seem as though he was just grinding his axe?

Or perhaps Hack has his own axe to grind?

Sorry, but that story just doesn't add up, so unless someone can give me something more concrete than all this 'he said, he said', I'm not buying it.


If you cant see it- fine. But what doesnt add up? I stand by what I said:

Gene and Steve forced alot of this thru Devinner to try to bury 247
The Hud push started and is being orchrestrated thru boosters to get Mullen out and Hud in because Hud will "recruit better". I find it funny nobody thinks it's odd that one coach is being pushed so hard for a coaching change.

Between Saturday's meltdown, the slap on the wrist to Miami, and Rosebowl's tweet earlier- I've just had enough.

[Coach34]

And the thing is- I think the world of Mark. He is an outstanding coach. But I dont like the way it's being forced right now- wrong way to go about it. I sincerely hope Mullen finishes strong to squash all this for awhile because next year we will have a good football team.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Our guys have to find a way to get organized and on the same page. We dont have that. We have factions here- factions there. We are not united- and must find a way to make that happen.
Forward Bulldogs??

[hells bells]

And the thing is- I think the world of Mark. He is an outstanding coach. But I dont like the way it's being forced right now- wrong way to go about it. I sincerely hope Mullen finishes strong to squash all this for awhile because next year we will have a good football team.

I usually wait and drink on the weekend. Off the table today after reading this thread.

[MadDawg]

What I have learned today is that I am glad I don't partake in the soap opera that is recruiting - and all the fansites that report on it. I don't know who half the people are mentioned in this thread. I know who Gene was/is and how he originally started the whole fansite phenomenon with Gene's Page. I was a member way back when. I saw his site grow and eventually turned into Scout. I saw SixPack formed out of the folks tired of his crap. And now I've seen EliteDawgs formed from the folks tired of the Pack's crap. And before long, there will be another site dedicated to those tired of ED. It's a never ending journey.

[SallyStansbury]

and there you have the reason behind the big push to bring in Hud....elementary my dear Watson


Do you not agree that Hud having both the solid personality and a clear line of communication with our alumns for recruiting purposes would be a good thing?

I love all that Mullen has done for our program and I respect it, but if he is too stubborn to change his coaching strategy in the second half of games (like BG & AU), in case you forgot............it sucks. AND, if for whatever reason, he refuses to recruit in a similar fashion to other SEC teams who are doing so effectively then piss on him; it is time to move on.

Let me follow up,

1. Do you see Mullen allowing someone else to come in and help him on offense?
2. Do you think Mullen will change his recruiting strategies, interact with Alumns, and hand over some measure of control?

If you answer "no" to the two above questions what is your conclusion and how do you move forward?

[Political Hack]

What I have learned today is that I am glad I don't partake in the soap opera that is recruiting - and all the fansites that report on it. I don't know who half the people are mentioned in this thread. I know who Gene was/is and how he originally started the whole fansite phenomenon with Gene's Page. I was a member way back when. I saw his site grow and eventually turned into Scout. I saw SixPack formed out of the folks tired of his crap. And now I've seen EliteDawgs formed from the folks tired of the Pack's crap. And before long, there will be another site dedicated to those tired of ED. It's a never ending journey.

I enjoyed your post more than any of the others in this thread. I think this site is purely dedicated to doing what's best for MSU. as long as others don't betray that loyalty, there's no reason to dislike them. Like BeastMan and Farley said, some of the sites/reporters stayed out of it and you rarely see those guys called out for their actions. I've been close to both and I can say with confidence that there's less integrity in reporting on recruiting than there is in the actual recruiting.

[Coach34]

And the last thing I'll say today in all this- to Smootness and others:

Regardless of what you believe or dont believe in all this- one thing is indisputable:

Steve and Gene defended Devinner over and over when all this came out. What fansite in the damn country would defend the person turning their school into the NCAA? That is insane. Every one I know in the SEC would shun him like he was Bin Laden or The Plague. But not the Scout boys. They blamed Hack and 247- and propped up Devinner as the good guy in all this.

You dont have to believe anything else- but we all know that point stands alone.

[engie]

And the thing is- I think the world of Mark. He is an outstanding coach. But I dont like the way it's being forced right now- wrong way to go about it. I sincerely hope Mullen finishes strong to squash all this for awhile because next year we will have a good football team.

If we're divided on Mullen -- but basically everybody is united behind Hudspeth -- then what is the problem? We beat Bowling Green at home by 1 -- Hud beats Petrino on the road by 17. Of course, there's going to be blow back from that for a little while -- and it will get worse for as long as Hud continues to overperform while Mullen underperforms. The best thing for the Mullen crowd would be Hud laying an egg against Arky St on the road tonight -- like he has in both of his past two seasons. If that happens, the noise gets quieter. If it doesn't, it probably gets louder -- until it's deafening.

The writing on the wall says we are on our way back to the cellar in the west. We're supposed to be better next year -- but who is supposed to get worse and why? Auburn will be better. OM will be better. Maybe aTm and LSU regress somewhat -- but I wouldn't bet on it with the way they recruit. Both are young on defense -- but uber talented. Bama is Bama.

[maroonmania]

Do you not agree that Hud having both the solid personality and a clear line of communication with our alumns for recruiting purposes would be a good thing?

I love all that Mullen has done for our program and I respect it, but if he is too stubborn to change his coaching strategy in the second half of games (like BG & AU), in case you forgot............it sucks. AND, if for whatever reason, he refuses to recruit in a similar fashion to other SEC teams who are doing so effectively then piss on him; it is time to move on.

Let me follow up,

1. Do you see Mullen allowing someone else to come in and help him on offense?
2. Do you think Mullen will change his recruiting strategies, interact with Alumns, and hand over some measure of control?

If you answer "no" to the two above questions what is your conclusion and how do you move forward?

Would be interested in the answer to this because I don't understand why Mullen has to have "plausible deniability" but supposedly Freeze doesn't care? Why the difference? We have to bump up our recruiting efforts in the newfangled SEC power conference structure to compete and we have the fanbase and facilities and national exposure to do that RIGHT now. If we don't recruit a little better than we have been then this "plausible deniability" won't matter much for Mullen because he will likely lose his job. Although maybe he feels getting canned is better than possibly being soiled by a potential NCAA investigation that doesn't 100% clear him. I know one thing, you can't invest 100 MILLION dollars into your football program and be content with never competing with anyone beyond the bottom half of the league and still expect fans to fill up the place week after week. Just won't happen. If we go 5-7 this year (a pretty decent possibility) I'm already afraid that our season ticket sales next year are going to fall off even with the extra capacity.

[SPMT]

For those scoring at home(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):



Mullen doesnt want to coordinate with boosters- he has to have plausible deniability. That's why he is a shitty recruiter- not because of his personality, not because of Hevesy, not because we dont recruit 5-star players, etc...Freeze doesnt give a shit about plausible deniability- that's why their boosters are so in sync with their recruiting. And that's why they get shit done.

r

I agree with most of what you are saying, however, the above is only partially correct in my opinion. Mullen definitely doesn't want his skin in the "game", nonetheless his brash and abrasive personality and its impact on recruiting has been pointed out in two publications, one before he ever came to State. The books are Urban's Way and Tebow's autobiography. I personally don't want him fired and would rather he turn the downward trend around. He's more than capable, there's just something not there with him for the last 1.5 years or so.

[engie]

I agree with most of what you are saying, however, the above is only partially correct in my opinion. Mullen definitely doesn't want his skin in the "game", nonetheless his brash and abrasive personality and its impact on recruiting has been pointed out in two publications, one before he ever came to State. The books are Urban's Way and Tebow's autobiography. I personally don't want him fired and would rather he turn the downward trend around. He's more than capable, there's just something not there with him for the last 1.5 years or so.

Exactly.

Freeze is "all in" at OM. He wants to win it all there -- and is doing everything he thinks is necessary to get that done. Mullen is not "all in" at MSU. Never has been. The irony is that his nobility goes unnoticed -- and often gets punished -- in the SEC.

Everyone think about what coach is saying. Why is OM's booster structure generally so much more organized than ours? It's because their marching orders under this staff come from the top. While ours are basically a leaderless army doing whatever "they" think helps MSU -- without any direction from those with perspective. We were a whole different recruiting animal under Jackie -- and the reason why should be obvious.

Fact of the matter is, in this OM investigation, they have GOT to end up on probation with us. Regardless. Anything less -- and we're going to get hammered in recruiting for the next 7 years that we fall under the repeat offenders clause. They've got to lose their "get out of jail free" card -- and it needed to happen yesterday.

[SallyStansbury]

Would be interested in the answer to this because I don't understand why Mullen has to have "plausible deniability" but supposedly Freeze doesn't care? Why the difference? We have to bump up our recruiting efforts in the newfangled SEC power conference structure to compete and we have the fanbase and facilities and national exposure to do that RIGHT now. If we don't recruit a little better than we have been then this "plausible deniability" won't matter much for Mullen because he will likely lose his job. Although maybe he feels getting canned is better than possibly being soiled by a potential NCAA investigation that doesn't 100% clear him. I know one thing, you can't invest 100 MILLION dollars into your football program and be content with never competing with anyone beyond the bottom half of the league and still expect fans to fill up the place week after week. Just won't happen. If we go 5-7 this year (a pretty decent possibility) I'm already afraid that our season ticket sales next year are going to fall off even with the extra capacity.

I feel like it is some control issue with Mullen. He doesn't want to submit to the alumni and say, "please help us with.....A, B, C". That strategy is great if you are Urban Meyer and you are at FLA or tOSU where you don't have to recruit so much, but at MSU that strategy works poorly and I think we are seeing the results of that.

I ask coach or anyone who would care to speculate, what are the odds of Mullen changing his present recruiting strategy?

Mullen choking down on offense, crossing arms, chewing play-sheet, etc....what are the odds of him changing? I welcome discussion on this topic. My pure guess is he isn't going to change a damn thing because he is too stubborn and our success on the field will depend largely on how many cupcakes we schedule. I would like him to hire some Kingsbury offensive genius, but I am afraid he mistakenly sees himself as such and will work to tweak the present system and "get the players to finally execute his master plan" to perfection. I am not holding my breath.

[Coach34]

I agree with most of what you are saying, however, the above is only partially correct in my opinion. Mullen definitely doesn't want his skin in the "game", nonetheless his brash and abrasive personality and its impact on recruiting has been pointed out in two publications, one before he ever came to State. The books are Urban's Way and Tebow's autobiography.

But you also have tweets from kids like Marlon Humphrey calling Mullen his favorite coach. Some kids relate to it- some don't. It's easy to see why such a humble person like Tim Tebow may not like it- but a DB that is all about being driven and confident would. It's not just Mullen- it's all coaches. There are kids that probably get turned off by Freezus' constant preaching- but they havent written a book yet or said anything in public for you to know about it.

[Coach34]

I feel like it is some control issue with Mullen. He doesn't want to submit to the alumni and say, "please help us with.....A, B, C". That strategy is great if you are Urban Meyer and you are at FLA or tOSU where you don't have to recruit so much, but at MSU that strategy works poorly and I think we are seeing the results of that.

I ask coach or anyone who would care to speculate, what are the odds of Mullen changing his present recruiting strategy?

Mullen choking down on offense, crossing arms, chewing play-sheet, etc....what are the odds of him changing? I welcome discussion on this topic. My pure guess is he isn't going to change a damn thing because he is too stubborn and our success on the field will depend largely on how many cupcakes we schedule. I would like him to hire some Kingsbury offensive genius, but I am afraid he mistakenly sees himself as such and will work to tweak the present system and "get the players to finally execute his master plan" to perfection. I am not holding my breath.

1. We have to be one unit and completely organized in recruiting- and I'm not talking about the coaching staff.

2. I dont want a thing changed about our offense right now. It's finally where it needs to be. We just need our young QB to make a few more throws and our WR's to get better and stop dropping balls. We are averaging 457 ypg this season- and with who we have left to play- will finish with over 400 ypg. This offense may be the best in school history by the end of the season- and has a chance to finish in the top half of the SEC

[maroonmania]

Exactly.

Freeze is "all in" at OM. He wants to win it all there -- and is doing everything he thinks is necessary to get that done. Mullen is not "all in" at MSU. Never has been. The irony is that his nobility goes unnoticed -- and often gets punished -- in the SEC.

Everyone think about what coach is saying. Why is OM's booster structure generally so much more organized than ours? It's because their marching orders under this staff come from the top. While ours are basically a leaderless army doing whatever "they" think helps MSU -- without any direction from those with perspective. We were a whole different recruiting animal under Jackie -- and the reason why should be obvious.

Fact of the matter is, in this OM investigation, they have GOT to end up on probation with us. Regardless. Anything less -- and we're going to get hammered in recruiting for the next 7 years that we fall under the repeat offenders clause. They've got to lose their "get out of jail free" card -- and it needed to happen yesterday.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the SEC office, starting with Mike Slive first and foremost is interested in nobility or even fairness. If ANYONE didn't get that message loud and clear with the whole Cam Newton situation then you had your head buried in the sand. The ONLY thing they are concerned with is the almighty dollar and keeping the SEC dominant on the national scene.

[engie]

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the SEC office, starting with Mike Slive first and foremost is interested in nobility or even fairness. If ANYONE didn't get that message loud and clear with the whole Cam Newton situation then you had your head buried in the sand. The ONLY thing they are concerned with is the almighty dollar and keeping the SEC dominant on the national scene.

Obviously, the entire athletics administration at MSU missed the memo. Hence why we are STILL talking about it -- and find ourselves on probation that essentially lasts 7 years(repeat offenders) over $600 and a used car discount...

[maroonmania]

Obviously, the entire athletics administration at MSU missed the memo. Hence why we are STILL talking about it -- and find ourselves on probation that essentially lasts 7 years(repeat offenders) over $600 and a used car discount...

Not surprising from an athletic department still relying on a ex PE coach to run compliance. Its better than it was under LT but we still have a LONG ways to go.

[Dannyripms]

@coach I'm gonna say bullshit on all of it. You and hack are a bunch of keyboard operators that don't know really anything other than gossip. Defend Mullen all you want. Bring on HUD

[Dawgfan77]

Playing the devils advocate here but what if hudspeth turns us down. I am on record stating I M firmly in the HUD camp but what happens if we do get rid of Mullen and HUD says no. For all parties I think the best case scenario is we finish 6-6 and Mullen takes a lateral job just to get out and we go get hudspeth

[SignalToNoise]

We're not gonna run Mullen off if we haven't already talked to Hud about taking the job.

[SPMT]

But you also have tweets from kids like Marlon Humphrey calling Mullen his favorite coach. Some kids relate to it- some don't. It's easy to see why such a humble person like Tim Tebow may not like it- but a DB that is all about being driven and confident would. It's not just Mullen- it's all coaches. There are kids that probably get turned off by Freezus' constant preaching- but they havent written a book yet or said anything in public for you to know about it.

Fair points.

[CadaverDawg]

Playing the devils advocate here but what if hudspeth turns us down. I am on record stating I M firmly in the HUD camp but what happens if we do get rid of Mullen and HUD says no. For all parties I think the best case scenario is we finish 6-6 and Mullen takes a lateral job just to get out and we go get hudspeth

We won't fire Mullen without Hud giving us an answer first

[BrunswickDawg]

I feel like it is some control issue with Mullen. He doesn't want to submit to the alumni and say, "please help us with.....A, B, C". That strategy is great if you are Urban Meyer and you are at FLA or tOSU where you don't have to recruit so much, but at MSU that strategy works poorly and I think we are seeing the results of that.

Side note to this - when we played UF in Gainesville in 2010, I got tickets from a cousin who is a UF alum. Talking to UF people then, a number of them were ready to fire Meyer. Main reason was that he hated to make nice with the power alums, and he just generally did not like the whole dog and pony show aspect of life of a football coach in the south. Meet and greet, glad hand, etc. was not his shtick and the alums took offense. He'd won 2 NC at that point and was a rude yankee to half a dozen people I talked to that weekend.

[CadaverDawg]

@coach I'm gonna say bullshit on all of it. You and hack are a bunch of keyboard operators that don't know really anything other than gossip. Defend Mullen all you want. Bring on HUD

Do you know who Hack is? If so, why would he not have knowledge? As for Coach, he's full of shit sometimes, and he cracks me up, but he has some good connections. And even though me and Engie had it out over a misunderstanding the other day, he has some good connections too. Not sure about others. It appears Ennis may have some good info as well. This board has pretty good members when it comes to program connections. I have one guy that gives me good recruiting info every year, but never as good as Coach and Engie's from my experience.

[Coach34]

That's fine Danny- you are welcome to your opinion. I said what I wanted to say, got it off my chest, and people are welcome to form their own opinions

[Todd4State]

The funny thing on twitter about Rosebowl was he is claiming "revisionist history" on all of this- despite articles from Genespage pumping up DeVinner.

Further proof that there's Genespage and then there's real life.

[dawgs]

2. I dont want a thing changed about our offense right now. It's finally where it needs to be. We just need our young QB to make a few more throws and our WR's to get better and stop dropping balls. We are averaging 457 ypg this season- and with who we have left to play- will finish with over 400 ypg. This offense may be the best in school history by the end of the season- and has a chance to finish in the top half of the SEC

we are around #20 in the country in yds per play and we are 100+ in time per play. i want to see us take advantage of this by running more plays. ultimately we aren't going to shove around the best Ds on our schedule with a plodding pace very often, we need to use a faster pace of play to catch those Ds disorganized and/or tired to hit them with a big play. it also attracts better offensive skill players, something we desperately need.

i'd also like to see us get a bit more creative on big 3rd downs. no need to run a read option with dak keeping it up the middle for the 482nd time this season.

i don't think we are that far off for the most part (when dak is playing), but i think a few little thinks could take us from an avg offense to being a truly dangerous offense that is capable of outscoring anyone on our schedule if it comes down to it.

[Ghost of Hank Flick]

Genes Page is a pawn for the athletic department. Not only are they not black balled or stone walled, but the department prefers to give them info and helps them out because they know Gene will do whatever they say.

Also the problem here is our athletic department which views all this the wrong way. Bracky is going to be hard to get rid of. Not many think he does a poor job. And that's the problem, the ultimately think Gene was acting in our best interest for the most part.

Paul hates Gene. Gene hates Paul. It's like a bunch of middle school girls. The difference is Paul isn't going to eff our school over.

[WinningIsRelentless]

If we're divided on Mullen -- but basically everybody is united behind Hudspeth -- then what is the problem? We beat Bowling Green at home by 1 -- Hud beats Petrino on the road by 17. Of course, there's going to be blow back from that for a little while -- and it will get worse for as long as Hud continues to overperform while Mullen underperforms. The best thing for the Mullen crowd would be Hud laying an egg against Arky St on the road tonight -- like he has in both of his past two seasons. If that happens, the noise gets quieter. If it doesn't, it probably gets louder -- until it's deafening.

The writing on the wall says we are on our way back to the cellar in the west. We're supposed to be better next year -- but who is supposed to get worse and why? Auburn will be better. OM will be better. Maybe aTm and LSU regress somewhat -- but I wouldn't bet on it with the way they recruit. Both are young on defense -- but uber talented. Bama is Bama.

How the hell can you say HUD over performed and Mullen underperformed? It's no way in hell you can compare ULL schedule to States schedule.

[engie]

How the hell can you say HUD over performed and Mullen underperformed? It's no way in hell you can compare ULL schedule to States schedule.

Jesus H not this again. Yes -- you absolutely can compare them. It's equally hard to win down there as it is to win at MSU in relative terms.

ULL - .487 team all-time
MSU - .485 team all-time

If it was so easy to win in Lafayette, La, why is Mark Hudspeth the first person that's ever been able to do it? Meanwhile, I'm calling a spade a spade -- and losing 4 straight toss-up games -- 3 of the 4 basically in blowout fashion = underperformance. Period.

Hud was a 3 point dawg and beat Petrino by 17 on the road. When was the last time our coach won a game he was an underdog in? That = underperformance. I can go on. But there is no need.

[State82]

How the hell can you say HUD over performed and Mullen underperformed? It's no way in hell you can compare ULL schedule to States schedule.

Because it is all relative. Hud is playing in the Sunbelt with Sunbelt talent, against other Sunbelt teams. Mullen is playing in the SEC with SEC talent (allegedly) against other SEC teams. Now, if Mullen's talent cannot be characterized as legit SEC talent then that is his fault and the primary cause that this whole conversation is taking place. Hud is not playing SEC caliber teams but ULL is also not loading the cupboard with SEC caliber personnel. The theorem being that Hud, with SEC facilities, money, exposure, etc. will significantly upgrade the talent level to compete with the upgraded schedule. It's all relative, and to quote the AT&T ad, it's not complicated.

[Bubb Rubb]

All of this sounds like a whole lot of conspiracy talk.

Do I think Gene and Steve handled things well in the aftermath of the De'Vinner stuff? No. Do I think Bracky Brett is the best compliance guy in college football? No.

But come on...you honestly believe that Gene and Steve were the primary forces behind getting us turned into the NCAA? And that despite that, they have at least as much access to the athletic department as they've ever had, with someone like Cohen allowing each member of his team/staff to be personally interviewed by Gene?

That is fairly insane. Seems pretty elementary to me to take a look at the assumptions and think, hmmm, maybe what I think isn't 100% correct.

We're basing this on the fact that Gene wrote a fluff piece on De'Vinner? Do I think Gene/Steve were friends with De'Vinner and probably liked the access he provided? Yes. Did it cloud their judgement of the situation? Probably. But you honestly believe they created this whole thing out of thin air just to attack a poster on a rival site? Good gosh.

Why don't we take a couple of steps back and not just assume we know everything. All I see constantly from certain segments of our fanbase is that they make assumptions on how they think things operate (generally a dumbed-down version of things so as best to blame one certain person or entity), then raise cane and claim things need to change...because of what they assume to be true.

We don't know any of this. So maybe we can just calm down.

Or maybe you're right. Maybe we have the one athletic department and football coach in the country who actively want to hurt our program. Maybe we like giving ourselves penalties for no reason and want our fans to turn us in. Maybe Mullen doesn't really care about winning; maybe he's gotten completely lazy and is just cashing a paycheck at this point.

Pretty unbelievably freaking amazing that with all that, we're still putting a decent product on the field despite being arguably the 2nd-worst program in the history of the conference with a budget that most of the rest of the conference laughs at.

Gene and Steve aren't smart enough to orchestrate all of this. Their agenda was not to get MSU in trouble. They were being supportive of Devinner because he was a source for them...they wanted to keep that. They saw an opportunity to throw arrows at 247 because it was potentially good for their business. They have no strategic vision, and they were too stupid to realize that they were hurting their own program.

[Bubb Rubb]

If you cant see it- fine. But what doesnt add up? I stand by what I said:

Gene and Steve forced alot of this thru Devinner to try to bury 247
The Hud push started and is being orchrestrated thru boosters to get Mullen out and Hud in because Hud will "recruit better". I find it funny nobody thinks it's odd that one coach is being pushed so hard for a coaching change.

Between Saturday's meltdown, the slap on the wrist to Miami, and Rosebowl's tweet earlier- I've just had enough.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but can we stop with the "slap on the wrist" stuff with Miami? They got slammed. The difference is that they slammed themselves. They self imposed scholarship bans and, two bowl bans (one likely a BCS bowl), and the ACC Championship game. They lost an additional nine football scholarships and is on probation for three more years. Pat Haden is crying about it but if they had cooperated like Miami did, they would've seen similar results.

All of this talk about them getting off light is revisionist history. Until recently, their football program has been shit for years, and it's all because of the investigation and self-imposed penalties.

[smootness]

Because it is all relative. Hud is playing in the Sunbelt with Sunbelt talent, against other Sunbelt teams. Mullen is playing in the SEC with SEC talent (allegedly) against other SEC teams. Now, if Mullen's talent cannot be characterized as legit SEC talent then that is his fault and the primary cause that this whole conversation is taking place. Hud is not playing SEC caliber teams but ULL is also not loading the cupboard with SEC caliber personnel. The theorem being that Hud, with SEC facilities, money, exposure, etc. will significantly upgrade the talent level to compete with the upgraded schedule. It's all relative, and to quote the AT&T ad, it's not complicated.

You still can't really compare them.

ULL may have a similar history to State, but we have to try to figure out ways to compete with Alabama and LSU. They have to figure out how to compete with Sun Belt teams. Yes, they're doing it with Sun Belt talent, but the best Sun Belt program is still going to bring in a whole bunch of 2-star kids.

In the SEC, your competition is bringing in the top players in the country. There is no cap to the talent level. In the Sun Belt, even the top teams are going to lose essentially everyone past a certain talent level to bigger programs. So everyone ultimately is bringing in pretty comparable talent. Whether you're Troy, or WKU, or ULL, or Arkansas St., you're all losing anybody who is wanted by a bigger program. So the gap in talent is much smaller.

We have a cap on our talent level. We generally won't bring in anybody past a certain level, at least if they're OOS, because they're going to go to Bama, LSU, Florida, etc. We have a cap, they don't.

[engie]

You still can't really compare them.

ULL may have a similar history to State, but we have to try to figure out ways to compete with Alabama and LSU. They have to figure out how to compete with Sun Belt teams. Yes, they're doing it with Sun Belt talent, but the best Sun Belt program is still going to bring in a whole bunch of 2-star kids.

In the SEC, your competition is bringing in the top players in the country. There is no cap to the talent level. In the Sun Belt, even the top teams are going to lose essentially everyone past a certain talent level to bigger programs. So everyone ultimately is bringing in pretty comparable talent. Whether you're Troy, or WKU, or ULL, or Arkansas St., you're all losing anybody who is wanted by a bigger program. So the gap in talent is much smaller.

We have a cap on our talent level. We generally won't bring in anybody past a certain level, at least if they're OOS, because they're going to go to Bama, LSU, Florida, etc. We have a cap, they don't.

Nice post. Although every bit of it is obvious and common sense. Coaching talent is JUST as obvious in the Sun Belt as it is in any other conference in America. If it isn't, how do you explain the "hit rate" of all these Sun Belt coaches having big success immediately elsewhere? I'd argue that "coaching talent" is even MORE obvious there -- since you obviously don't get to do any cherrypicking.

Mullen doesn't even recruit the same stratosphere that Hud would here either. No one with a semblance of a clue would even try to argue that one...

[smootness]

I'm not saying I don't think Hudspeth is proving himself to be a good coach. I'm just taking some issue with the specific statement that Hudspeth is overachieving where Mullen is underachieving simply because we have similar histories yet Hudspeth's records are better each year.

It just isn't the same and can't legitimately be compared, even on a relative scale.

And I honestly don't know how Hudspeth would recruit. I think he would probably recruit well, but nobody really knows for sure until he does it. Mullen will have us consistently in the top 20-25 at this point. So in what stratosphere would Hudspeth be in? You're telling me he'd have us consistently in the top 10? That would be quite the statement.

Thanks for the condescension, though!

[engie]

I'm not saying I don't think Hudspeth is proving himself to be a good coach. I'm just taking some issue with the specific statement that Hudspeth is overachieving where Mullen is underachieving simply because we have similar histories yet Hudspeth's records are better each year.
When did Mullen last win a game with an even line? As(even a VERY slight) underdog? On the road -- no less? Hud has done ALL of that DECISIVELY in the past 2 weeks. That's "beating people you aren't supposed to beat." The very definition of Overachievement.

Mullen hasn't even come really CLOSE to doing any of that since South Carolina 2011. That was TWENTY FIVE GAMES AGO. That is an underachievement. Very simple and easy to comprehend in the most basic of terms.



It just isn't the same and can't legitimately be compared, even on a relative scale.
Freeze won the Sun Belt. He's winning in the SEC.
Malzahn won the Sun Belt. He's winning in the SEC.
Trying to turn the argument into something it isn't and wasn't intended as does not change anything.


And I honestly don't know how Hudspeth would recruit. I think he would probably recruit well, but nobody really knows for sure until he does it. Mullen will have us consistently in the top 20-25 at this point. So in what stratosphere would Hudspeth be in? You're telling me he'd have us consistently in the top 10? That would be quite the statement.

Mullen is recruiting well right now? We will be lucky to finish at 2010 levels in the 30s(even by average player rankings taking numbers out of the equation). Freeze is mopping the floor with us right now. This after I've been out on a limb during the summer saying this would be the best average star class we've had -- even though it isn't going to even be close to that, we're practically full, and only chasing a few more exciting targets we're almost certain to finish as bridesmaids for.

Yes, Hudspeth takes our recruiting up an entire level on day 1. Talk to any highschool coach in a 3 state radius of MS and ask them about it. They will tell you quickly.

[PMDawg]

Exactly.

Freeze is "all in" at OM. He wants to win it all there -- and is doing everything he thinks is necessary to get that done. Mullen is not "all in" at MSU. Never has been. The irony is that his nobility goes unnoticed -- and often gets punished -- in the SEC.

Everyone think about what coach is saying. Why is OM's booster structure generally so much more organized than ours? It's because their marching orders under this staff come from the top. While ours are basically a leaderless army doing whatever "they" think helps MSU -- without any direction from those with perspective. We were a whole different recruiting animal under Jackie -- and the reason why should be obvious.

Fact of the matter is, in this OM investigation, they have GOT to end up on probation with us. Regardless. Anything less -- and we're going to get hammered in recruiting for the next 7 years that we fall under the repeat offenders clause. They've got to lose their "get out of jail free" card -- and it needed to happen yesterday.

Step 1: buy some rebel gear
Step 2: install button-cam in button of said gear
Step 3: go to the library for this years recruitapalooza
Step 4: mingle with recruits
Step 5: send tapes to ESPN anonymously (the NCAA doesn't investigate unless ESPN breaks the story first)

Problem solved.

[PMDawg]

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the SEC office, starting with Mike Slive first and foremost is interested in nobility or even fairness. If ANYONE didn't get that message loud and clear with the whole Cam Newton situation then you had your head buried in the sand. The ONLY thing they are concerned with is the almighty dollar and keeping the SEC dominant on the national scene.

Amen. We (the entire sec) sold our athletics souls to the devil when we hired that piece of excrement as our commissioner. He's delivered the goods, but look at what we have to live with in return.

[PMDawg]

How the hell can you say HUD over performed and Mullen underperformed? It's no way in hell you can compare ULL schedule to States schedule.

Here's a guy who doesn't understand college athletics.

[smootness]

The only thing I'm trying to say is that nothing is a guarantee. I get that a lot of our fanbase is tired of Mullen and specifically wants Hudspeth. I'm not quite ready to get rid of Mullen, but I get it. I definitely have been somewhat disappointed in some things over the last couple of years.

But anyone acting as though it is an absolute guarantee that Hudspeth would be a better head coach than Mullen at Mississippi State isn't going to get a lot of respect from me for that argument, because presuming to know that as a fact is absurd.

It doesn't mean it can't happen, or even that it isn't likely. But people have now jumped to, 'We have to hire Hudspeth; it would be insane not to, he's clearly better,' and I think that's going too far.

As far as this year's class, it will be a solid class...not great, but certainly better than 2010. The average player ranking will be much better, I'm not sure where you're getting that it will be about even.

Yes, Freeze and Malzahn have looked good transitioning. But Mario Cristobal won the Sun Belt and was fired from FIU 2 years later. Howard Schnellenberger won the Sun Belt and was 1-11 four years later.

I really like this board in general, but the most frustrating part about it is that on most topics a general consensus develops, and then anyone who in any way questions that consensus or doesn't jump fully in is treated as though they are inexplicably ignoring reality or are simply dumb.

[BulldogBear]

smootmess is right on the coaches. This season is not over for one. I AM interested in Hudspeth should I become convinced that Mullen is done. But there are PLENTY of people who excel at a lower evel and end up not doing jack crap once they upgrade. I don't particularly think Hudspeth is that guy but neither do I have any reason to assume he'll be our Savior. We are really starting to sound like a bunch of Ole Miss fans with all this HUD NOW talk.

[War Machine Dawg]

For those scoring at home(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Gene and Steve advised Devinner to turn the school that they base their livelihood on into the NCAA. Even spun to their subscribers what a good guy Devinner was. Why did they do that? To try and ruin Paul Jones and 247.

2. Devinner listens, blows the whistle on one of his own players that is supposed to be able to trust him.

3. A "Rogue Booster" gets disassociated from the school when he clams up and keeps his mouth shut.

So what's the fallout from Gene and Steve's actions?

Gene and Steve continue to have access to the program and school they make money off of. Even after being the catalyst that brought about probation.

Devinner has turned alot of people off and he is now being investigated by authorities much bigger than the NCAA

Redmond sits for 18 games


You expect Mullen to win and compete with the LSU's, Bama's, and Georgia's of the SEC- when we have our own fansites putting us on probation? Seriously? How do you expect him to do it? How can you with a straight face expect us to recruit like the big boys? The Ole Miss fansites help their program. They do everything possible and more to help their program- and ours puts us on ****ing probation!!!!!!

Ole Miss flew Treadwell and Kimchee from the UA All-Star game to Birmingham for the bowl game and they had a place to stay and partied their asses off. Could you imagine what would have happened to us had we done that with Mac Alexander or another top recruit? Had Bracky bumped into them he would have called the NCAA from the stadium that day.

You see the penalties Miami, Oregon, and others get as opposed to us? And you really think we are going to be allowed to win the SEC title in your lifetime? No way in hell it's gonna happen. You dont turn the SEC into a half billion dollar business without alot of manipulation from the SEC office.

Mullen doesnt want to coordinate with boosters- he has to have plausible deniability. That's why he is a shitty recruiter- not because of his personality, not because of Hevesy, not because we dont recruit 5-star players, etc...Freeze doesnt give a shit about plausible deniability- that's why their boosters are so in sync with their recruiting. And that's why they get shit done.

Some of you need to wake up as to what is really going on out there. We are the problem- we are why we are losing. Not because Mullen called the zone-read or doesnt stomp up and down the sidelines. **** me I need a drink and some tylenol. Rant over

+1

Where's that slow clap gif when I need it?

[hacker]

I really like this board in general, but the most frustrating part about it is that on most topics a general consensus develops, and then anyone who in any way questions that consensus or doesn't jump fully in is treated as though they are inexplicably ignoring reality or are simply dumb.

Good call.

[hacker]

+1

Where's that slow clap gif when I need it?

On the front page, there were like 4 or 5 of them posted.

[FlabLoser]

I really like this board in general, but the most frustrating part about it is that on most topics a general consensus develops, and then anyone who in any way questions that consensus or doesn't jump fully in is treated as though they are inexplicably ignoring reality or are simply dumb.

I'm doing my best to discourage members from insulting each other or generally having SPS style pissing contests. We've got an infractions system here and folks can be temporarily (or permanently) booted for being too bad about that stuff.

It is difficult if not impossible to make a thousand or more members behave, but we're going to attempt it.

[Ghost of Hank Flick]

I'm not saying I don't think Hudspeth is proving himself to be a good coach. I'm just taking some issue with the specific statement that Hudspeth is overachieving where Mullen is underachieving simply because we have similar histories yet Hudspeth's records are better each year.

It just isn't the same and can't legitimately be compared, even on a relative scale.

And I honestly don't know how Hudspeth would recruit. I think he would probably recruit well, but nobody really knows for sure until he does it. Mullen will have us consistently in the top 20-25 at this point. So in what stratosphere would Hudspeth be in? You're telling me he'd have us consistently in the top 10? That would be quite the statement.

Thanks for the condescension, though!

At the very least I don't think anyone can say Hud would be worse than Mullen. Since Dan seems to have plateaued it probably wouldn't do any damage to go with Hud since he's proven to be a solid coach. He might not be any better than Mullen, but I think it's pretty clear folks want a little more than what Mullen is delivering on. And the time to strike on the Hud sweepstakes might be right now.

[smootness]

I got you. Again, I like this board, and it's not really that people are outright insulting, it's just a general tone in posts. I guess 'dismissive' is the best word I can think of. I like to have honest discussions where both sides present their opinions and can then reasonably talk about their disagreements; too often on this board, it seems like that becomes difficult because those who dissent in some way get responses that are sarcastic or in other ways entirely dismissive.

There will be issues just about anywhere; I'm not leaving, just a general observation.

[smootness]

At the very least I don't think anyone can say Hud would be worse than Mullen. Since Dan seems to have plateaued it probably wouldn't do any damage to go with Hud since he's proven to be a solid coach. He might not be any better than Mullen, but I think it's pretty clear folks want a little more than what Mullen is delivering on. And the time to strike on the Hud sweepstakes might be right now.

That is all legitimate. I personally think there is a chance Hudspeth is worse; I still don't think we've seen the ceiling of where Mullen can take us, but I definitely understand the other side. I've said before, I wouldn't mind having Hudspeth as coach. But I still like Mullen and genuinely think he can still get the job done.

[Ghost of Hank Flick]

That is all legitimate. I personally think there is a chance Hudspeth is worse; I still don't think we've seen the ceiling of where Mullen can take us, but I definitely understand the other side. I've said before, I wouldn't mind having Hudspeth as coach. But I still like Mullen and genuinely think he can still get the job done.

I agree on Mullen, however, I don't want to be in the same spot a year or two from now and Hud is at Florida or something and we missed out because we didn't strike when we had the chance to get him, and we end up making a poor hire instead starting the cycle all over again.

[smootness]

I agree on Mullen, however, I don't want to be in the same spot a year or two from now and Hud is at Florida or something and we missed out because we didn't strike when we had the chance to get him, and we end up making a poor hire instead starting the cycle all over again.

I get that if you truly believe Hudspeth is the one guy we need, but it supports my point that a lot of this is due to being afraid we'll miss on him. I just don't think that's the way you can go about making decisions like this; there are no guarantees, and I don't think you can get rid of a guy who still could be the guy you need (I believe Mullen still can be, others don't) to take a chance on somebody. I don't see Hudspeth as so far and away better that it's worth it to take that risk.

And honestly, I think if a program like Florida comes calling, Hudspeth may be gone, whether he's at State at the time or somewhere else.

I also like Stricklin (as many seem not to) and think he has done a good job on the hires he's made so far, so I don't worry that we would make a bad hire if Hudspeth isn't available, if that time comes. I trust him to do research and hire the guy we need.

[dawgs]

Step 1: buy some rebel gear
Step 2: install button-cam in button of said gear
Step 3: go to the library for this years recruitapalooza
Step 4: mingle with recruits
Step 5: send tapes to ESPN anonymously (the NCAA doesn't investigate unless ESPN breaks the story first)

Problem solved.

**** espn. send it to yahoo's charles robinson. he's the best there is at digging up NCAA violations.

[Op4isabitch]

I'm doing my best to discourage members from insulting each other or generally having SPS style pissing contests. We've got an infractions system here and folks can be temporarily (or permanently) booted for being too bad about that stuff.

It is difficult if not impossible to make a thousand or more members behave, but we're going to attempt it.


There are that many on this board? Wow that is terrific...great job!