Only 7 teams have 5 or more players in Gil Brandt's Top 150...

[HoopsDawg]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

[msstate7]

Moorhead had to change the culture or something...

[Saltydog]

Tread lightly grasshopper. You'll be lambasted for saying we "under achieved"........

[HancockCountyDog]

It’s possible we will have four first rounders.

I’m proud and pissed all at the same time.

[Dawgology]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

We have to get that winning culture installed you know....

[HoopsDawg]

Moorhead had to change the culture or something...

My thread title is wrong, but I don't know how to edit. Only 7 teams, not 8.

[HoopsDawg]

Tread lightly grasshopper. You'll be lambasted for saying we "under achieved"........

Did Cohen consider that Moorhead had 2 NFL WR's, an NFL TE, and a generational RB when he was the OC at Penn State? Or was he going off the performance at Fordham.

Heard Neal Brown on the radio today. Very impressed with him. It also made me depressed.

[HoopsDawg]

It’s possible we will have four first rounders.

I’m proud and pissed all at the same time.

Daniel Jeremiah does have 4 guys getting drafted in the first round. He's a former scout for 3 different NFL teams and is currently an analyst for the NFL network.

8-5 folks. This is historical underacheivement b/c none of these guys got injured during the season either.

If I'm Cohen, I need to see 7-5 and big improvement on offense or else I'm cutting my losses.

[Todd4State]

MSU's problem in general is when we have a deficiency it is extremely well below league average and typically rock bottom of the league- see WR's.

It goes back to recruiting and not making sure that every position is covered. That's also why Ole Miss has three probable first round picks and went 5-7. Because they would rather have that four star WR than a three star LB that might develop into a decent player.

This past year Billy Gonzalez (WR's) and Hevesy's (OT) recruiting really came to roost and really hurt us a lot along with having a QB who couldn't read defenses and was possibly selfish.


Our defense was absolutely elite and lived up to expectations. Until the offense is able to fill holes and recruit better throughout at EVERY position group we won't have a 10 win type team consistently. And let's not forget how bad our defense was in 2016- yes, some of that was Sirmon but there were also a lot of holes. We fixed it by plugging in JUCO's. Something we failed miserably to do at WR and OT. I would imagine that very few of the top 150 are on the offensive side of the ball.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Moorhead had to change the culture or something...

Yeah, to a powder puff.

[HoopsDawg]

MSU's problem in general is when we have a deficiency it is extremely well below league average and typically rock bottom of the league- see WR's.

It goes back to recruiting and not making sure that every position is covered. That's also why Ole Miss has three probable first round picks and went 5-7. Because they would rather have that four star WR than a three star LB that might develop into a decent player.

This past year Billy Gonzalez (WR's) and Hevesy's (OT) recruiting really came to roost and really hurt us a lot along with having a QB who couldn't read defenses and was possibly selfish.


Our defense was absolutely elite and lived up to expectations. Until the offense is able to fill holes and recruit better throughout at EVERY position group we won't have a 10 win type team consistently. And let's not forget how bad our defense was in 2016- yes, some of that was Sirmon but there were also a lot of holes. We fixed it by plugging in JUCO's. Something we failed miserably to do at WR and OT. I would imagine that very few of the top 150 are on the offensive side of the ball.

Todd, Ole Miss's highest rated player is DK Metcalf and he missed most of the year for them. Greg Little is falling down draft boards and Gil only has him at #66. AJ Brown is projected a 2nd rounder by Gil but he could go in the first round. By the way, Gil Brandt is a hall of fame reporter.

You can not knock Hevesy's recruiting. Elgton Jenkins is going to get drafted. Daryl Williams is going to get drafted. Deion Calhoun is going to get drafted. 3 draft picks on last year's line and maybe more.

I agree about our WR's but that's what a coach is supposed to do: play to your strengths. Also, Justin Johnson is probably going to get a look at some NFL camps at TE. He had 17 catches for us last year. That's a shade over 1 per game. If your receivers are weak, run the ball and throw to the TE's.

What does 2016 have to do with anything? As you said, Peter Sirmon was the coordinator.

Also, very discouraging to me that we couldn't even get a visit from Juwan Johnson, the WR from Penn State who played for Moorhead. Dude knows and played for JoMo. Knows we desperately need a receiver and we can't even get a visit.

[MetEdDawg]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

I would argue that history, tradition, and experience/historical program expectations play a massive part in performance at a high level. There's a reason blue bloods always win. It's because they are blue bloods.

There's a reason we don't belong in the group. It's because we have less everything than those other programs except Clemson, and they play in a shit conference with little competition from the rest of the conference. And that's not debatable.

[Jack Lambert]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

Until we have the over all talent of the teams listed above us I don't want to hear all this whining ass women shit. It goes on and on and on and on and on.

[msstate7]

I would argue that history, tradition, and experience/historical program expectations play a massive part in performance at a high level. There's a reason blue bloods always win. It's because they are blue bloods.

There's a reason we don't belong in the group. It's because we have less everything than those other programs except Clemson, and they play in a shit conference with little competition from the rest of the conference. And that's not debatable.

Forget that group... we didn't even finish top 25 with that talent

[HoopsDawg]

Until we have the over all talent of the teams listed above us I don't want to hear all this whining ass women shit. It goes on and on and on and on and on.

Facts bother you?

[Turfdawg67]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

Some douchebag "fans" can't help themselves. Oh, and shocker that Salty Dog agrees... I can't see his shitty posts but I'm sure that 59-posts-a-day MS7 does too. Hmmmm...

And your dumba** whined and bitched about Mullen's recruiting. Ha! Now I guess, to fit your narrative, you're redacting that to fit your latest round of moaning and groaning.

[msstate7]

Some douchebag "fans" can't help themselves. Oh, and shocker that Salty Dog agrees... I can't see his shitty posts but I'm sure that 59-posts-a-day MS7 does too. Hmmmm...

And your dumba** whined and bitched about Mullen's recruiting. Ha! Now I guess, to fit your narrative, you're redacting that to fit your latest round of moaning and groaning.

^^^ blocks me bc he supposedly can't stand me then mentions me in every one of his posts.

[HoopsDawg]

Some douchebag "fans" can't help themselves. Oh, and shocker that Salty Dog agrees... I can't see his shitty posts but I'm sure that 59-posts-a-day MS7 does too. Hmmmm...

And your dumba** whined and bitched about Mullen's recruiting. Ha! Now I guess, to fit your narrative, you're redacting that to fit your latest round of moaning and groaning.

Why u so mad bro? Why do you take this so personally? This was a discussion on a national radio show.

[msstate7]

Facts bother you?

You see, there is no defense of this abomination of a season. In 3, 2, 1... there will be someone saying "8-5 is historically good for us". Yeah it is... problem is we have never had this level of talent. Since 1985, we've had 4 1st rounders total.

[Turfdawg67]

Did Cohen consider that Moorhead had 2 NFL WR's, an NFL TE, and a generational RB when he was the OC at Penn State? Or was he going off the performance at Fordham.

Heard Neal Brown on the radio today. Very impressed with him. It also made me depressed.

Oh... well there you go. Heard him on the radio!! I guess your next position, besides being a keyboard warrior / armchair hoops aficionado will be a AD at a major SEC school. Can't wait...

[Jack Lambert]

Facts bother you?

Facts don't bother me at all but what does bother me is all the bitching about the same damn thing over and over about things that are not going to change. He is our coach and in honor of Easter Give up the hate Ghost about him.

[HoopsDawg]

Oh... well there you go. Heard him on the radio!! I guess your next position, besides being a keyboard warrior / armchair hoops aficionado will be a AD at a major SEC school. Can't wait...

You don't like the thread, so you choose to attack me, a fellow bulldog. What does that say about you? How about commenting on the topic or ignoring it. Free advice from a former high school basketball coach.

[MetEdDawg]

Forget that group... we didn't even finish top 25 with that talent

I will agree with that. We underachieved based on talent.

But considering in our history of the last 40 years we haven't had a coach leave for a better job, we are doing something that's never been done before. Our program hasn't had a lot of success, but add in the coach leaving part and we've never had that happen.

Our football program has a lot to learn in that regard. Baseball can do it fine. We have the history. But football still has a lot to learn institutionally about how to sustain success because we've never done it before.

[Liverpooldawg]

How many of ours were on the offensive side of the ball?

[HoopsDawg]

Facts don't bother me at all but what does bother me is all the bitching about the same damn thing over and over about things that are not going to change. He is our coach and in honor of Easter Give up the hate Ghost about him.

This was an entire segment on a national radio show today. Even I didn't totally realize how bad it was. We may never have this much top end junior and senior talent again.

I wanted Neal Brown, Bill Clark, and Mike Norvell when we were hiring Mullen's replacement. Now, I would probably remove Norvell from that list. I don't blame Moorhead for taking the job. I don't totally blame Cohen for hiring him. There were some positive things and reason for optimism. I hope that he can turn it around in a hurry, but I feel we are on a downward trajectory.

[HoopsDawg]

How many of ours were on the offensive side of the ball?

3 Defensive, 2 offensive in the Top 150. Sweat, Simmons, Abram, Jenkins, and Fitzgerald.

[Bothrops]

Uh..if we only played defense we would've won the National Championship last year. One side of the ball was unlike the other.

[RocketDawg]

My thread title is wrong, but I don't know how to edit. Only 7 teams, not 8.

You should be able to change the thread title by going to Edit, then hit Go Advanced.

[Saltydog]

He always does that. The guy's a dickhead who can't objectively engage in conversation, rather only belittle those that don't feel like he does.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Forget that group... we didn't even finish top 25 with that talent

We did finish top 25 in the coaches poll. To be fair

[BuckyIsAB****]

I like Moorhead but 6-6 and another shitty year on offense and I wouldnt have a problem with cutting our losses and moving on before it gets any worse than that. What he is trying to do will work it just takes a QB being able to see it.

This QB is 10x more QB dependent than Mullen's is. The biggest reason Mullen is praised as a ''QB Guru'' is bc everything he does for him is pretty simple. Mullen is I formation football out of the shotgun. In Moorheads offense the ball could go 3 different ways on every snap depending on what the QB does. Its been a tough transition to say the least

[HoopsDawg]

Bottom line, we need a coach who can do more with less not the other way around. Moorhead deserves another season before any final conclusions are made and I will be pulling for him.

The question Cohen has to ask himself is Joe Moorhead the guy who can at least be as good as Mullen. That's the bar now. If the answer is no, you have to cut bait. This season will tell us a lot.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Bottom line, we need a coach who can do more with less not the other way around. Moorhead deserves another season before any final conclusions are made and I will be pulling for him.

The question Cohen has to ask himself is Joe Moorhead the guy who can at least be as good as Mullen. That's the bar now. If the answer is no, you have to cut bait. This season will tell us a lot.

My biggest question for the board is this, how much different would you feel if we beat Iowa instead of losing to them. It was an unacceptable loss but how much different would you feel if we win that?

[msstate7]

I think we're a 6-6/7-5 type team. If we reach 7-5, won't be mad, but I do want us to look like we're building towards something better in 2020. If we go 6-6, I'll be disappointed, but not calling for joe's head. 5-7, I want em gone. If we go 8-4 again, I'm changing my tune on joe

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think we're a 6-6/7-5 type team. If we reach 7-5, won't be mad, but I do want us to look like we're building towards something better in 2020. If we go 6-6, I'll be disappointed, but not calling for joe's head. 5-7, I want em gone. If we go 8-4 again, I'm changing my tune on joe

We could go 8-4 and not be very good

[msstate7]

We could go 8-4 and not be very good

4 OOC, om, ark, Kentucky, and tenn, I suppose. I think that's gonna be much tougher than you think. Remember everyone chalking up Kentucky, Florida, and Iowa up as sure wins?

[Saltydog]

I will agree with that. We underachieved based on talent.

But considering in our history of the last 40 years we haven't had a coach leave for a better job, we are doing something that's never been done before. Our program hasn't had a lot of success, but add in the coach leaving part and we've never had that happen.

Our football program has a lot to learn in that regard. Baseball can do it fine. We have the history. But football still has a lot to learn institutionally about how to sustain success because we've never done it before.

Meh, we've been to how many consecutive bowl games now? It's more about not being able to take it to the next level that is frustrating even when we know we've got the talent to do so.

[BuckyIsAB****]

4 OOC, om, ark, Kentucky, and tenn, I suppose. I think that's gonna be much tougher than you think. Remember everyone chalking up Kentucky, Florida, and Iowa up as sure wins?

Halof of those conference games are at home, 1 is on the road against Tennessee who shouldnt be near us right now neither should Arky.. UT cant score and Arky cant do much of either.. UT may be better but they wont score much on our defense. Non conf should all be wins. USM will be much improved this year I think they are going to surprise and probably be as good as KSU

[MedDawg]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

Very misleading. State did NOT have an equivalent roster to those schools. Compare the #6-#30 players for the teams, you will see State is far behind.

We have consistently recruited around #18-30 and we finished 2018 ranked #25 with a new coach and system.

Catch two dropped passes and we finish 10-3.

[msstate7]

Very misleading. State did NOT have an equivalent roster to those schools. Compare the #6-#30 players for the teams, you will see State is far behind.

We have consistently recruited around #18-30 and we finished 2018 ranked #25 with a new coach and system.

Catch two dropped passes and we finish 10-3.

S&P+, espn Fpi, and Vegas all said we underachieved.

[HoopsDawg]

My biggest question for the board is this, how much different would you feel if we beat Iowa instead of losing to them. It was an unacceptable loss but how much different would you feel if we win that?

I would feel better if we had beaten Iowa b/c we were coming off 2 blowout wins vs Arkansas and Ole Miss. I normally don't put much stock in bowl games, but our team was clearly motivated and wanted to win. All of our pros decided to play in the bowl game. Our energy level was high and Nick wanted to go out a winner. We completely dominated them defensively. It was just a poor job by Moorhead and the offensive coaches getting us ready for the game after 4 weeks of practice. We completely outclassed a mediocre Iowa team. Just a horrible loss. Also, I'm still completely pissed about JoeMo's decision to punt on 4th and an inch even though you can argue it worked out. I definitely lost some faith after that game.

[HoopsDawg]

Very misleading. State did NOT have an equivalent roster to those schools. Compare the #6-#30 players for the teams, you will see State is far behind.

We have consistently recruited around #18-30 and we finished 2018 ranked #25 with a new coach and system.

Catch two dropped passes and we finish 10-3.

We had some pretty good dudes in the 18-30. Guys like Jamal Peters, Mark McLaurin, Willie Gay, Daryl Williams, Errol Thompson, etc. Not saying we should have made the CFP, but 8-5?!?

[bluelightstar]

I would feel better if we had beaten Iowa b/c we were coming off 2 blowout wins vs Arkansas and Ole Miss. I normally don't put much stock in bowl games, but our team was clearly motivated and wanted to win. All of our pros decided to play in the bowl game. Our energy level was high and Nick wanted to go out a winner. We completely dominated them defensively. It was just a poor job by Moorhead and the offensive coaches getting us ready for the game after 4 weeks of practice. We completely outclassed a mediocre Iowa team. Just a horrible loss. Also, I'm still completely pissed about JoeMo's decision to punt on 4th and an inch even though you can argue it worked out. I definitely lost some faith after that game.

Did it really work out? We got the ball back, sure, but you would think a team with no passing game would prefer the extra clock, the 2 timeouts, and the ability to continue to use the ground game. Nobody in that stadium thought we had a chance on that last possession

[msstate7]

We had some pretty good dudes in the 18-30. Guys like Jamal Peters, Mark McLaurin, Willie Gay, Daryl Williams, Errol Thompson, etc. Not saying we should have made the CFP, but 8-5?!?

My how the attitude here has changed since this thread...

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?69572-UK-Players-Just-Won-t-Shut-Up&highlight=Prediction%20football

[HoopsDawg]

Did it really work out? We got the ball back, sure, but you would think a team with no passing game would prefer the extra clock, the 2 timeouts, and the ability to continue to use the ground game. Nobody in that stadium thought we had a chance on that last possession

No it didn't work out, but I bet Moorhead wouldn't admit to the mistake.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I would feel better if we had beaten Iowa b/c we were coming off 2 blowout wins vs Arkansas and Ole Miss. I normally don't put much stock in bowl games, but our team was clearly motivated and wanted to win. All of our pros decided to play in the bowl game. Our energy level was high and Nick wanted to go out a winner. We completely dominated them defensively. It was just a poor job by Moorhead and the offensive coaches getting us ready for the game after 4 weeks of practice. We completely outclassed a mediocre Iowa team. Just a horrible loss. Also, I'm still completely pissed about JoeMo's decision to punt on 4th and an inch even though you can argue it worked out. I definitely lost some faith after that game.

We missed a few days of practice and there was a lot of videos of the team doing more partying than worried about Iowa. Regardless of how bad Nick wanted to go out a winner he played his worst game of the season other than LSU in that ball game. There were drops but we had those before.

I dont think its nearly as bad as some think I think we all just have a bad taste in our mouths after Iowa and deservedly so. We are 2-3 TDs better than Iowa. I will give them credit they are always tough and well coached, wait on you to make a mistake.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Did it really work out? We got the ball back, sure, but you would think a team with no passing game would prefer the extra clock, the 2 timeouts, and the ability to continue to use the ground game. Nobody in that stadium thought we had a chance on that last possession

I agree not going for it on 4th and an inch and then doing it later on 4th and 2 was pretty confusing. We also did something similar to this vs Bama in the 2nd half. I cant remember the exact down and distance the 2nd time but the first it was a few inches at midfield or so and we decided to punt then went for it on 4th and medium or so the next drive

[Todd4State]

Todd, Ole Miss's highest rated player is DK Metcalf and he missed most of the year for them. Greg Little is falling down draft boards and Gil only has him at #66. AJ Brown is projected a 2nd rounder by Gil but he could go in the first round. By the way, Gil Brandt is a hall of fame reporter.

You can not knock Hevesy's recruiting. Elgton Jenkins is going to get drafted. Daryl Williams is going to get drafted. Deion Calhoun is going to get drafted. 3 draft picks on last year's line and maybe more.

I agree about our WR's but that's what a coach is supposed to do: play to your strengths. Also, Justin Johnson is probably going to get a look at some NFL camps at TE. He had 17 catches for us last year. That's a shade over 1 per game. If your receivers are weak, run the ball and throw to the TE's.

What does 2016 have to do with anything? As you said, Peter Sirmon was the coordinator.

Also, very discouraging to me that we couldn't even get a visit from Juwan Johnson, the WR from Penn State who played for Moorhead. Dude knows and played for JoMo. Knows we desperately need a receiver and we can't even get a visit.

Hevesy got lucky with Jenkins. That was a last minute take because we had literally no one recruited. We'll see about Calhoun getting drafted- may or may not happen.

People say "you have to play to your strengths" but the thing is you also can't be so terrible at a position group that it completely makes you so one dimensional that everyone knows what you are going to do. Even if you are really good at that one dimension it still makes it easier to stop you and it still is going to suppress your offensive in this case numbers.

It's one thing to be below average at a position group and good at another and play to our strengths- but our issue is we are worse than below average at a position group (WR) to the point where we are completely exposed and on top of it add a QB that couldn't read defenses very well. At some point we HAVE TO be able to complete a forward pass at least somewhat efficiently. That's true for Dan's offense as well.


And we did play to our strengths last year- we ran the ball 61% of the time. Compare that to Dan the year before who ran it 64% of the time. And Joe's last year at Penn State when he had Barkley he only ran the ball 50% of the time. Our best offensive player ran the ball 49% of our run plays himself.


My point about 2016 was that we were bad but we recovered because we were able to plug holes with JUCO players and we failed to do that on the offensive side of the ball and that's why the defense got better and the offense didn't.

[Todd4State]

And again- my point is until we get offensive players that caliber of our defensive players- and actually are able to put all of those recruits ON THE SAME TEAM AT THE SAME TIME- we're never going to maximize what we can do under any coach or in any scheme.

[Todd4State]

I agree not going for it on 4th and an inch and then doing it later on 4th and 2 was pretty confusing. We also did something similar to this vs Bama in the 2nd half. I cant remember the exact down and distance the 2nd time but the first it was a few inches at midfield or so and we decided to punt then went for it on 4th and medium or so the next drive

I'm pretty sure he decided to do that because of the fact that:

1. We had been stuffed on the goal line earlier.

2. We were in our territory. Meaning if we screw it up it's Ed O Egg Bowl 2007 but worse since we were further back than Ole Miss was.

3. We had the number one defense in the country and were probably getting the ball back. Which did happen. And then Guidry 17ed it up.

[cheewgumm]

This year was a disaster based on the talent we had. It just was.

We can say ?yeah but WRs weren?t good?, but the fact is not many teams gave great everything. You capitalize when you get that much talent.

We may have run 61% of the time but we didn?t run our RBs. That?s on Moorhead. If we had we?d have probably won 2 more games. I think it?s pretty clear.

Hopefully we do better this year.

[Todd4State]

This year was a disaster based on the talent we had. It just was.

We can say ?yeah but WRs weren?t good?, but the fact is not many teams gave great everything. You capitalize when you get that much talent.

We may have run 61% of the time but we didn?t run our RBs. That?s on Moorhead. If we had we?d have probably won 2 more games. I think it?s pretty clear.

Hopefully we do better this year.

If we make two catches (from WR's) we probably win two more games. That's even more clear. Actually scratch probably- we do. And how well does Joe's offense run if we're starting a legit LT and not a RT at LT because again we had no options and were starting a guard at RT because of no other options there?

Fitz ran the ball 49% of the time. The running backs ran the ball 51%. You can't logically say that we should have run the ball more with RB's and didn't get the ball in the hands of our best player when we had a QB that set the SEC record for rushing yards by a QB taking half the carries. And then blame the coach for not getting the ball in the hands of our best "play maker".


And yes teams aren't always great at everything but with MSU it's more than being "not that great" at a spot- it's we're completely devoid of talent at a position group because some asshole decided to ignore it for literally three years in recruiting. Remember three years ago after the spring game when we scrambled to get Reggie Todd and Osirus Mitchell? Nope? That's Joe's fault too right?** Have to desperately chase a WR from Louisiana that LSU didn't really want who has been a complete head case his entire career at MSU because we had no other options? Had a coach decide that Donald Gray was the "next Steve Smith"?


That's why recruiting is important. VERY important. And we failed at it quite a bit under the old regime. Which is why they consistently were also winning about 8 games a year as well just like......Joe.


The most encouraging thing about Joe is we at least seem to be filling positions where we hopefully won't have the huge gaps where we are devoid of talent. Eventually that will pay off and we will be more well rounded on both sides of the ball.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'm pretty sure he decided to do that because of the fact that:

1. We had been stuffed on the goal line earlier.

2. We were in our territory. Meaning if we screw it up it's Ed O Egg Bowl 2007 but worse since we were further back than Ole Miss was.

3. We had the number one defense in the country and were probably getting the ball back. Which did happen. And then Guidry 17ed it up.

Egg Bowl 2007 OM had the ball and the lead, went for it. We just blew a lead and were down with less than 4 min or so to go and we punted on 4th and an inch. We did get it back but we knew we sucked throwing the ball, they knrew that and they knew we had to hurry so it makes it even worse.

Guidry should have caught it. No question. If you are a dawg you catch that ball regardless BUT...that throw was not intended for him. It was going to the underneath receiver and Fitz missed so bad it hit Guidry in the chest.

[BuckyIsAB****]

This year was a disaster based on the talent we had. It just was.

We can say ?yeah but WRs weren?t good?, but the fact is not many teams gave great everything. You capitalize when you get that much talent.

We may have run 61% of the time but we didn?t run our RBs. That?s on Moorhead. If we had we?d have probably won 2 more games. I think it?s pretty clear.

Hopefully we do better this year.

If we run the ball 3 times and punt and most drives we probably win 10 games this year. Our OL and RB/QB would wear even the best defenses down but Moorhead figured it would be better in the long run to put his offense in even though it didnt fit us last year.

[Todd4State]

Egg Bowl 2007 OM had the ball and the lead, went for it. We just blew a lead and were down with less than 4 min or so to go and we punted on 4th and an inch. We did get it back but we knew we sucked throwing the ball, they knrew that and they knew we had to hurry so it makes it even worse.

Guidry should have caught it. No question. If you are a dawg you catch that ball regardless BUT...that throw was not intended for him. It was going to the underneath receiver and Fitz missed so bad it hit Guidry in the chest.

Good point about the lead. It was honestly hard for me to tell where the ball was supposed to go to.

[Cooterpoot]

Our offensive talent was just above garbage and our offensive system didn?t match up with what tiny bit of talent we had. Move on.

[Jarius]

Our main problem was our quarterback's ability to throw the football. He gave us everything he had, but he was just awful throwing the football. We did have drops and our receivers are below average, but Nick was really bad throwing the football against any defense with a pulse (minus A&M but even they were terrible on pass defense). I expect our offense to improve slightly and our defense to decrease more than our offense improves. It won't be shown in the W/L record because the schedule this year is much much easier and we are going to win 8 games.

[ShotgunDawg]

Todd, Ole Miss's highest rated player is DK Metcalf and he missed most of the year for them. Greg Little is falling down draft boards and Gil only has him at #66. AJ Brown is projected a 2nd rounder by Gil but he could go in the first round. By the way, Gil Brandt is a hall of fame reporter.

You can not knock Hevesy's recruiting. Elgton Jenkins is going to get drafted. Daryl Williams is going to get drafted. Deion Calhoun is going to get drafted. 3 draft picks on last year's line and maybe more.

I agree about our WR's but that's what a coach is supposed to do: play to your strengths. Also, Justin Johnson is probably going to get a look at some NFL camps at TE. He had 17 catches for us last year. That's a shade over 1 per game. If your receivers are weak, run the ball and throw to the TE's.

What does 2016 have to do with anything? As you said, Peter Sirmon was the coordinator.

Also, very discouraging to me that we couldn't even get a visit from Juwan Johnson, the WR from Penn State who played for Moorhead. Dude knows and played for JoMo. Knows we desperately need a receiver and we can't even get a visit.

Gil Brandt is a lot more than a HOF reporter. One of the best scouts of all time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Brandt

[msu15]

I will always be pissed about our result this season(and Moorhead blocked me on Facebook after my rant at him after the Iowa game lol), but it's still an absolute fact that we were 2 dropped passes away from being 10-3.

[ShotgunDawg]

It was an underachievement. That's a fact.

However, it was only his first year. I'd be significantly more distraught about Moorhead if it were year 2-4 and what happened last year happened.

Additionally, his roster was very unbalanced. Due to the level of recruiting it typically takes a accumulate a roster with 4 first rounders, most of those teams don't have massive holes at certain positions

[gravedigger]

1. Bama: Playoff
2. Clemson: Playoff
3. Notre Dame: Playoff
4. Oklahoma: Playoff
5. UGA: 5th in final BCS ranking
6. Ohio State: 6th in final BCS ranking
7. Mississippi State- one of these teams is not like the other 6


Talk today on ESPNU radio- Mark Packer's show is that MSU did the least with the most. Michigan had 4 in the top 100 so the debate is between MSU and Michigan. So painful to listen to.

Could it be, that maybe, we as fans make too much of what ratings individual players have?

That maybe a coach who has been around for 1 recruiting cycle, one spring and one fall practice is at a bit of a disadvantage to Saban, Smart, Sweeney etc?

Nah...our fans are right....we should wring our hands.

[MedDawg]

If we make two catches (from WR's) we probably win two more games. That's even more clear. Actually scratch probably- we do. And how well does Joe's offense run if we're starting a legit LT and not a RT at LT because again we had no options and were starting a guard at RT because of no other options there?

Fitz ran the ball 49% of the time. The running backs ran the ball 51%. You can't logically say that we should have run the ball more with RB's and didn't get the ball in the hands of our best player when we had a QB that set the SEC record for rushing yards by a QB taking half the carries. And then blame the coach for not getting the ball in the hands of our best "play maker".


And yes teams aren't always great at everything but with MSU it's more than being "not that great" at a spot- it's we're completely devoid of talent at a position group because some asshole decided to ignore it for literally three years in recruiting. Remember three years ago after the spring game when we scrambled to get Reggie Todd and Osirus Mitchell? Nope? That's Joe's fault too right?** Have to desperately chase a WR from Louisiana that LSU didn't really want who has been a complete head case his entire career at MSU because we had no other options? Had a coach decide that Donald Gray was the "next Steve Smith"?


That's why recruiting is important. VERY important. And we failed at it quite a bit under the old regime. Which is why they consistently were also winning about 8 games a year as well just like......Joe.


The most encouraging thing about Joe is we at least seem to be filling positions where we hopefully won't have the huge gaps where we are devoid of talent. Eventually that will pay off and we will be more well rounded on both sides of the ball.


Agree with Todd4State's posts in this thread.

I'd like to add--better receivers would have helped, but if you have a decent passing QB, you can get away with average WR's. That's how we did better with Dak. A good passing QB doesn't throw behind a receiver on a cross pattern or post. Doesn't always miss the rare open receiver downfield. Fitz could hit those if he was on a scramble, but he couldn't see them or connect with them enough from the pocket. Fitz also threw behind crossing receivers just a little and or waited just a little too late to make the throw and the defender would catch up and knock down the pass. What looked like good plays by the defender or a receiver who couldn't separate could have been completions with a pass thrown a second or two earlier.

Of course, having really good wide receivers is better, especially so you can get away with 50/50 balls. See OM. Also, McSorley was able to throw some of those at Penn State. Maybe we just didn't try enough of those with Guidry (or Fitz didn't put enough air under them to allow Guidry to run under and fight for them).

[BrunswickDawg]

If we run the ball 3 times and punt and most drives we probably win 10 games this year. Our OL and RB/QB would wear even the best defenses down but Moorhead figured it would be better in the long run to put his offense in even though it didnt fit us last year.

I know you are a football guy - but I'm going to push back on this a bit. 3 of our losses came in games that were old school defensive wars. Kentucky flat out stuffed our running game and forced us into down and distance all night between sacks and our own stupid penalties. Running more in that game would not have impacted the outcome. And the top defense in the country could not contain Benny Snell - and 2 defensive penalties kept 2 scoring drives alive. That loss was a team effort. UF shut down our running game as well (although not as bad as UK did). So again, we are forced to pass and the combination of inefficient QB and bad WR kills us. Combine it with 6 sacks, and its a killer. Running more would not have changed the outcome. LSU was mostly on Nick - our ground game was effective enough for a defensive game, but we were killed by the picks. But it is THE game that not having a single SEC level receiver impacted us the most in my opinion. LSU's DB core suffocated our WR, and I think made Nick force his throws more out of desperation. So, running the ball more might have impacted the outcome of the game.

Bama was Bama - two 1st Q scores and we all know we have never had the offense to come back down 14 to Bama.

Iowa was totally different. People have put a lot of blame on the offense and in particular Nick - but never mention Abrams blowing coverage on a 75 yard TD, Tommy Champion's holding negating a 51 yard pass completion that put us on the 2, or Eiland blowing his assignment and getting Nick blindsided resulting in a fumble and a quick TD. And in spite of that - we are a dropped TD from winning. But, let's dog the coaches and get the pitch forks and torches.

I don't see how a lot of our fans ever survived the Jackie Sherrill era. For all the great the Kang did for us - this season looked a whole helluva lot like most of his seasons did - we were in position to win virtually every game, and player execution and talent holes at critical positions cost us. It's frustrating as hell, but I'm not going to throw Moorhead out for it.

[Hot Rock]

I know you are a football guy - but I'm going to push back on this a bit. 3 of our losses came in games that were old school defensive wars. Kentucky flat out stuffed our running game and forced us into down and distance all night between sacks and our own stupid penalties. Running more in that game would not have impacted the outcome. And the top defense in the country could not contain Benny Snell - and 2 defensive penalties kept 2 scoring drives alive. That loss was a team effort. UF shut down our running game as well (although not as bad as UK did). So again, we are forced to pass and the combination of inefficient QB and bad WR kills us. Combine it with 6 sacks, and its a killer. Running more would not have changed the outcome. LSU was mostly on Nick - our ground game was effective enough for a defensive game, but we were killed by the picks. But it is THE game that not having a single SEC level receiver impacted us the most in my opinion. LSU's DB core suffocated our WR, and I think made Nick force his throws more out of desperation. So, running the ball more might have impacted the outcome of the game.

Bama was Bama - two 1st Q scores and we all know we have never had the offense to come back down 14 to Bama.

Iowa was totally different. People have put a lot of blame on the offense and in particular Nick - but never mention Abrams blowing coverage on a 75 yard TD, Tommy Champion's holding negating a 51 yard pass completion that put us on the 2, or Eiland blowing his assignment and getting Nick blindsided resulting in a fumble and a quick TD. And in spite of that - we are a dropped TD from winning. But, let's dog the coaches and get the pitch forks and torches.

I don't see how a lot of our fans ever survived the Jackie Sherrill era. For all the great the Kang did for us - this season looked a whole helluva lot like most of his seasons did - we were in position to win virtually every game, and player execution and talent holes at critical positions cost us. It's frustrating as hell, but I'm not going to throw Moorhead out for it.

^^This^^

[msstate7]

I know you are a football guy - but I'm going to push back on this a bit. 3 of our losses came in games that were old school defensive wars. Kentucky flat out stuffed our running game and forced us into down and distance all night between sacks and our own stupid penalties. Running more in that game would not have impacted the outcome. And the top defense in the country could not contain Benny Snell - and 2 defensive penalties kept 2 scoring drives alive. That loss was a team effort. UF shut down our running game as well (although not as bad as UK did). So again, we are forced to pass and the combination of inefficient QB and bad WR kills us. Combine it with 6 sacks, and its a killer. Running more would not have changed the outcome. LSU was mostly on Nick - our ground game was effective enough for a defensive game, but we were killed by the picks. But it is THE game that not having a single SEC level receiver impacted us the most in my opinion. LSU's DB core suffocated our WR, and I think made Nick force his throws more out of desperation. So, running the ball more might have impacted the outcome of the game.

Bama was Bama - two 1st Q scores and we all know we have never had the offense to come back down 14 to Bama.

Iowa was totally different. People have put a lot of blame on the offense and in particular Nick - but never mention Abrams blowing coverage on a 75 yard TD, Tommy Champion's holding negating a 51 yard pass completion that put us on the 2, or Eiland blowing his assignment and getting Nick blindsided resulting in a fumble and a quick TD. And in spite of that - we are a dropped TD from winning. But, let's dog the coaches and get the pitch forks and torches.

I don't see how a lot of our fans ever survived the Jackie Sherrill era. For all the great the Kang did for us - this season looked a whole helluva lot like most of his seasons did - we were in position to win virtually every game, and player execution and talent holes at critical positions cost us. It's frustrating as hell, but I'm not going to throw Moorhead out for it.

Kentucky beat us with one man, Allen. How many draws did we run at him? Screens? Chips? Our HC had no answer... this offense has no answer bc Allen did it to penn st too; they also did nothing to help

[BrunswickDawg]

Kentucky beat us with one man, Allen. How many draws did we run at him? Screens? Chips? Our HC had no answer... this offense has no answer bc Allen did it to penn st too; they also did nothing to help

And why did we have no answer? Because our best option at LT is really a RT. Who repeatedly has been torched against strong DL over the past 2 years. Could Moorhead possibly have adjusted more? Maybe. But is he going to run a screen, a chip, or a draw every single play attempting to compensate for a LT getting brutalized? No, because UK's overall defense was strong enough to take advantage of us keying on Allen. OL is a critical hole on our roster from years of bad OL recruiting. Notice that as soon as Moorhead had another viable option (THIS SPRING) he has moved Eiland to his natural position.

As for Allen against PSU - I guess JoMo was coaching 2 games on the same day and that's why PSU and MSU lost on New Years Day.

[msstate7]

And why did we have no answer? Because our best option at LT is really a RT. Who repeatedly has been torched against strong DL over the past 2 years. Could Moorhead possibly have adjusted more? Maybe. But is he going to run a screen, a chip, or a draw every single play attempting to compensate for a LT getting brutalized? No, because UK's overall defense was strong enough to take advantage of us keying on Allen. OL is a critical hole on our roster from years of bad OL recruiting. Notice that as soon as Moorhead had another viable option (THIS SPRING) he has moved Eiland to his natural position.

As for Allen against PSU - I guess JoMo was coaching 2 games on the same day and that's why PSU and MSU lost on New Years Day.

I guess this year will show who is more correct. This offense isn't gonna work

[DancingRabbit]

Could it be, that maybe, we as fans make too much of what ratings individual players have?

That maybe a coach who has been around for 1 recruiting cycle, one spring and one fall practice is at a bit of a disadvantage to Saban, Smart, Sweeney etc?

Nah...our fans are right....we should wring our hands.

We have a lot of hand-wringers. Plus a few trolls who love to ramp up the hand-wringing.

[BrunswickDawg]

I guess this year will show who is more correct. This offense isn't gonna work

Maybe - but we still potentially have major holes at QB and WR and would be there regardless of system. From what I saw Saturday the predominant theory of "Fitz throws an uncatchable ball" got blown out of the water because our WR still can't catch and don't get separation. Same issue as '17 & '18. The overall format made it hard to judge much more than that. If our WR are still bad, that will put us in the same boat as every team over the past 10 years - shut down the running game and you can beat us.

[Tbonewannabe]

Maybe - but we still potentially have major holes at QB and WR and would be there regardless of system. From what I saw Saturday the predominant theory of "Fitz throws an uncatchable ball" got blown out of the water because our WR still can't catch and don't get separation. Same issue as '17 & '18. The overall format made it hard to judge much more than that. If our WR are still bad, that will put us in the same boat as every team over the past 10 years - shut down the running game and you can beat us.

A lot of people just thought we turned a corner in 2017 since it was the first time Mullen had ever competed with Bama and not got dominated. Of course they had a lot of injuries to their starters which was also the case when we played LSU. Mullen just accepted that we probably couldn't beat teams like that and called a conservative game plan trying to keep it close. It is very similar to how Jackie coached.

It seems like Moorhead wants to try and win games which is why against Bama we kept going for it even though we could have had some fgs to make the score look better.

The bottom line is we ran into one of the tougher schedules we have had in a while due to UK having their best team in 40 years. They should come back down since Allen (SEC Defensive Player of the Year and probable #3 pick in the NFL Draft) and Benny Snell (UK's best RB in history) are gone. Stoops has improved them but we should handle business at home this year.

The biggest difference from 2017 to 2018, UK's defense went from 74th in 2017 to 6th in 2018. The defenses we faced were tougher but of course in the 4 games we lost in the regular season against those defenses, we were crap.

Our offense took a step back from 32 ppg to 28.5 ppg and yards went from 418 yards per game to 397 yards per game. Oddly enough in 2016 we had 440 yards per game so a lot bigger drop off than from 2017 to 2018 to go along with 30.4 ppg.

Naturally facing an extra game with a tougher defense would affect the averages so it seems like in 2018 when we didn't face a top 25 type defense then we dominated them in some form on offense. This gives me hope for 2019 but the bottom line is Moorhead has to show some improvement in the tougher games before people start to trust this offense.

Even if we lose to Bama, Auburn, LSU, and A&M, we need to see some points put on the board rather than below 10.

[msstate7]

A lot of people just thought we turned a corner in 2017 since it was the first time Mullen had ever competed with Bama and not got dominated. Of course they had a lot of injuries to their starters which was also the case when we played LSU. Mullen just accepted that we probably couldn't beat teams like that and called a conservative game plan trying to keep it close. It is very similar to how Jackie coached.

It seems like Moorhead wants to try and win games which is why against Bama we kept going for it even though we could have had some fgs to make the score look better.

The bottom line is we ran into one of the tougher schedules we have had in a while due to UK having their best team in 40 years. They should come back down since Allen (SEC Defensive Player of the Year and probable #3 pick in the NFL Draft) and Benny Snell (UK's best RB in history) are gone. Stoops has improved them but we should handle business at home this year.

The biggest difference from 2017 to 2018, UK's defense went from 74th in 2017 to 6th in 2018. The defenses we faced were tougher but of course in the 4 games we lost in the regular season against those defenses, we were crap.

Our offense took a step back from 32 ppg to 28.5 ppg and yards went from 418 yards per game to 397 yards per game. Oddly enough in 2016 we had 440 yards per game so a lot bigger drop off than from 2017 to 2018 to go along with 30.4 ppg.

Naturally facing an extra game with a tougher defense would affect the averages so it seems like in 2018 when we didn't face a top 25 type defense then we dominated them in some form on offense. This gives me hope for 2019 but the bottom line is Moorhead has to show some improvement in the tougher games before people start to trust this offense.

Even if we lose to Bama, Auburn, LSU, and A&M, we need to see some points put on the board rather than below 10.

2017, we faced the following top 20 total defense rankings: #1 Bama, #6 Georgia, #12 LSU, #14 auburn

2018, we faced the following top 20 total defense rankings: #7 Iowa, #16 Bama

[ShotgunDawg]

2017, we faced the following top 20 total defense rankings: #1 Bama, #6 Georgia, #12 LSU, #14 auburn

2018, we faced the following top 20 total defense rankings: #7 Iowa, #16 Bama

Kentucky was 23rd, LSU 25th, & Florida 28th BTW. Just to provide some context

We actually faced more top 30 defenses in 2018 than in 2017.

Interesting how you just chose an arbitrary number that skew the results

[Liverpooldawg]

3 Defensive, 2 offensive in the Top 150. Sweat, Simmons, Abram, Jenkins, and Fitzgerald.

Fitz? Really? I'm not sure he gets drafted. He certainly wont as a QB.

[msstate7]

Kentucky was 23rd, LSU 25th, & Florida 28th BTW. Just to provide some context

What's tougher, 5 top 28 defenses or 4 top 14?

[msstate7]

Kentucky was 23rd, LSU 25th, & Florida 28th BTW. Just to provide some context

We actually faced more top 30 defenses in 2018 than in 2017.

Interesting how you just chose an arbitrary number that skew the results

Ok, 5 top 30 with 4 of those outside the top 15 is obviously tougher than 4 top 14 defenses. That your position? Ha!

[ShotgunDawg]

What's tougher, 5 top 28 defenses or 4 top 14?

IDK. Do you?

Seems to me that a loss is a loss & the more good defenses you face the more likely you will lose. I'd say 5 top 28 defenses is harder just because it's more loseable games.

[ShotgunDawg]

Ok, 5 top 30 with 4 of those outside the top 15 is obviously tougher than 4 top 14 defenses. That your position? Ha!

5 good defenses is tougher than 4.

[msstate7]

IDK. Do you?

Seems to me that a loss is a loss & the more good defenses you face the more likely you will lose. I'd say 5 top 28 defenses is harder just because it's more loseable games.

Ok, tote that water haha

[HoopsDawg]

IDK. Do you?

Seems to me that a loss is a loss & the more good defenses you face the more likely you will lose. I'd say 5 top 28 defenses is harder just because it's more loseable games.

Pitiful Shotgun.

[ShotgunDawg]

Ok, tote that water haha

I'm not toting water at all. Hell, I'm the one that started the thread about how he was done at MSU on signing day. I think he lacks the "it" factor & the ability to manipulate his plan in the face of realistic game circumstances.

However, I thought your stat was biased & ignored the bigger picture. So, while I agree with you on Moorhead, I thought your process of getting there was flawed.

[BrunswickDawg]

IDK. Do you?

Seems to me that a loss is a loss & the more good defenses you face the more likely you will lose. I'd say 5 top 28 defenses is harder just because it's more loseable games.

And we play in a margin of error league. The difference between 10-2 and 7-5 is a lot narrower then people want to portray it because of the overall talent level. If you are not on your A game week in and week out, the SEC will eat you. Typically all but about 2-3 teams (2018 that was UPig and OM) will make you pay for a singular error, and those errors typically can turn the game. When an SEC team smells blood, they go in for the kill and you lose.

Some seasons - like 2018 - we were on the receiving end of the kill. Some seasons - like 2014 and to a degree 2017 - we are the team that pounces.
Think about 2014 - our best team of this century. As well as we played at LSU - that game hinged on couple of LSU mistakes (the blown coverage Jameon Lewis, never putting adjusting to Dak's running) that still had to be sealed by a Will Redmond INT at the end of the game. Where would we have been against A&M without Richie Brown's 3 picks; or against AU without a pick and a fumble recovery on the first 2 AU possessions that let us jump out to a 14-0 lead (in a game we only won by 15). That season could just as easily been 8-5 without those handful of plays - not to mention getting damn lucky against Arkansas with a Redmond pick on our own 16.

The difference in the two seasons - when in position to win games in 2014 we had players execute and perform, in 2018 we had players who didn't. That is as much or more on the players then the coaches.

[smootness]

The difference in the two seasons - when in position to win games in 2014 we had players execute and perform, in 2018 we had players who didn't. That is as much or more on the players then the coaches.

The buck stops with the coach.

There's a reason coaches tend to maintain certain levels over time with different groups of players.

[Coach34]

Fitz? Really? I'm not sure he gets drafted. He certainly wont as a QB.

Fitz is going to get drafted
Fitz is going to get draftted as a QB
Fitz is going to be throwing passes during OTA's
Fitz will also work as a Taysom Hill type of player for the team that drafts him

Will he be on a roster in September? I can't answer that question. But what I typed above is happening

As to the rest of the thread:

We have the same people in this thread claiming our problem was our lack of talent in players 10-25 as the reason we couldnt have the type of season the other teams did. Then those same people turn around and claim we are talented this year and should win 8 games. It's hilarious.

We are losing 8-9 NFL draft picks. As I stated last Spring- the most talented team of my lifetime. We are losing elite college pass-rushers and do not have anything close behind them. Rivers is very good but he is not a big-time pass-rusher, he is more of a run-stuffer. Those losses will impact our play at LB because our DL wont dominate the way it did last year. It will also effect the Secondary because they will have to cover longer or be in lower down and distance situations. Our D will be pretty good- but likely falls into the 20's or low 30's.
Offensively- we are losing 3 draft picks. Our QB play likely wont be as good as last year- but could be close if Whop emerges to be the player he should be. A RB injury could hurt alot- have to stay healthy with our top 2. Kentucky will be a battle and we will be underdogs at Tenn. K-State will be no gimme. We are a 6 win team. We could steal a 7th win or we could drop to a 5 win team. I wont be surprised either way.

[msstate7]

5 good defenses is tougher than 4.

Alright so let's put this in a different light... the ncaa says you know what state, we're gonna give you another shot at 2018. You can choose your schedule (rankings based on final college football poll):

Schedule 1...
#1 Bama
#6 Ohio st
#12 penn st
#14 Kentucky
8 filler games

Schedule 2...
#7 Michigan
#16 West Virginia
#23 mizzou
#25 Boise st
#28 Stanford (playoff rankings don't go this far and we were 28th in final ap, so I used #27)
7 filler games

You'd choose schedule 1, right? Of course you would bc schedule 2 is more difficult

[ShotgunDawg]

Alright so let's put this in a different light... the ncaa says you know what state, we're gonna give you another shot at 2018. You can choose your schedule (rankings based on final college football poll):

Schedule 1...
#1 Bama
#6 Ohio st
#12 penn st
#14 Kentucky
8 filler games

Schedule 2...
#7 Michigan
#16 West Virginia
#23 mizzou
#25 Boise st
#28 Stanford (playoff rankings don't go this far and we were 28th in final ap, so I used #27)
7 filler games

You'd choose schedule 1, right? Of course you would bc schedule 2 is more difficult

I get your point but your record would likely end up being about the same with both of these schedules

[Tbonewannabe]

2017, we faced the following top 20 total defense rankings: #1 Bama, #6 Georgia, #12 LSU, #14 auburn

2018, we faced the following top 20 total defense rankings: #7 Iowa, #16 Bama

So does yards or points matter more in defense?

Scoring Defense 2018

UK #6
Iowa #11
Bama #12
Auburn #14
Florida #20
LSU #26
La Tech #39
aTm #47
KSU #48

Scoring Defense 2017
Bama #1
UGA #6
Auburn #11
LSU #14
BYU #46

So as far as scoring defense, we played almost twice as many of the top 50 defenses and 1 more top 20 defense.

[msstate7]

So does yards or points matter more in defense?

Scoring Defense 2018

UK #6
Iowa #11
Bama #12
Auburn #14
Florida #20
LSU #26
La Tech #39
aTm #47
KSU #48

Scoring Defense 2017
Bama #1
UGA #6
Auburn #11
LSU #14
BYU #46

So as far as scoring defense, we played almost twice as many of the top 50 defenses and 1 more top 20 defense.

I say yards. Defense can't dictate where they start. For instance, here's our scoring drives vs Iowa:
10 plays 39 yds. (Fg)
9 plays 23 yds (fg)
3 plays 6 yds (td)
1 play 33 yds (td)
5 plays 49 yds (fg)

Short fields are hard to blame on the defense

[Really Clark?]

A lot of people just thought we turned a corner in 2017 since it was the first time Mullen had ever competed with Bama and not got dominated. Of course they had a lot of injuries to their starters which was also the case when we played LSU. Mullen just accepted that we probably couldn't beat teams like that and called a conservative game plan trying to keep it close. It is very similar to how Jackie coached.

It seems like Moorhead wants to try and win games which is why against Bama we kept going for it even though we could have had some fgs to make the score look better.

The bottom line is we ran into one of the tougher schedules we have had in a while due to UK having their best team in 40 years. They should come back down since Allen (SEC Defensive Player of the Year and probable #3 pick in the NFL Draft) and Benny Snell (UK's best RB in history) are gone. Stoops has improved them but we should handle business at home this year.

The biggest difference from 2017 to 2018, UK's defense went from 74th in 2017 to 6th in 2018. The defenses we faced were tougher but of course in the 4 games we lost in the regular season against those defenses, we were crap.

Our offense took a step back from 32 ppg to 28.5 ppg and yards went from 418 yards per game to 397 yards per game. Oddly enough in 2016 we had 440 yards per game so a lot bigger drop off than from 2017 to 2018 to go along with 30.4 ppg.

Naturally facing an extra game with a tougher defense would affect the averages so it seems like in 2018 when we didn't face a top 25 type defense then we dominated them in some form on offense. This gives me hope for 2019 but the bottom line is Moorhead has to show some improvement in the tougher games before people start to trust this offense.

Even if we lose to Bama, Auburn, LSU, and A&M, we need to see some points put on the board rather than below 10.

Our offense vs SEC opponents 2016, 2017, 2018...29.3, 26.3, 19.3. Yards 419.1, 385.6, 316.2

[Tbonewannabe]

So does yards or points matter more in defense?

Scoring Defense 2018

UK #6
Iowa #11
Bama #12
Auburn #14
Florida #20
LSU #26
La Tech #39
aTm #47
KSU #48

Scoring Defense 2017
Bama #1
UGA #6
Auburn #11
LSU #14
BYU #46

So as far as scoring defense, we played almost twice as many of the top 50 defenses and 1 more top 20 defense.

Also in 2017, we won 2 out of 5 against top 50 with the wins being LSU #14 and BYU #46. Both games at home.

In 2018, we won Auburn #14, La Tech #39, aTm #47, and KSU #48. KSU is the only game we won in the top 50 on the road in the last 2 years.

[Tbonewannabe]

I say yards. Defense can't dictate where they start. For instance, here's our scoring drives vs Iowa:
10 plays 39 yds. (Fg)
9 plays 23 yds (fg)
3 plays 6 yds (td)
1 play 33 yds (td)
5 plays 49 yds (fg)

Short fields are hard to blame on the defense

Another thing you aren't taking into consideration is every game we lost was a SEC away game except UF who had a top 20 scoring defense and #28 Total defense.

In 2017, we were dominated on the road at UGA and at Auburn. We then lost close games at home to Bama and UM. We won at home against an injury depleted LSU team.

I am not saying Moorhead doesn't have to prove his offense will work this year but comparing Moorhead to Mullen's 9th year when everything isn't exactly equal.

[smootness]

Who cares? We played more elite defenses in 2018, more solid defenses overall in 2017. We played 4 defenses in 2017 tougher than the 2nd toughest defense we faced in 2018, but 7 defenses tougher in 2018 than our 5th toughest in 2017.

The games we lost:
2017 - #1, 6, 14, 115 in total defense; #1, 6, 12, 109 in scoring defense
2018 - #7, 16, 23, 25, 28 in total defense; #6, 11, 12, 20, 26 in scoring defense

The games we won:
2017 - #12, 51, 60, 62, 75, 78, 91, 101 in total defense; #14, 46, 54, 70, 75, 87, 94, 114 in scoring defense
2018 - #27, 32, 38, 71, 79, 97, 121 in total defense; #14, 39, 47, 49, 105, 108, 113 in scoring defense

Great, now what does that tell us? In 2017, we beat one very good defense and a bunch of mediocre to bad ones; we lost to 3 elite defenses and one atrocious one.
In 2018, we beat a couple pretty good ones, a couple mediocre ones, and a few bad ones; we lost to 5 good to very good ones.

Which is better? I have no idea. They seem pretty similar. The main difference is that we had one fewer total win in 2018, one more loss, and a team that should have been quite a bit better with all it returned.

[Tbonewannabe]

Who cares? We played more elite defenses in 2018, more solid defenses overall in 2017. We played 4 defenses in 2017 tougher than the 2nd toughest defense we faced in 2018, but 7 defenses tougher in 2018 than our 5th toughest in 2017.

The games we lost:
2017 - #1, 6, 14, 115 in total defense; #1, 6, 12, 109 in scoring defense
2018 - #7, 16, 23, 25, 28 in total defense; #6, 11, 12, 20, 26 in scoring defense

The games we won:
2017 - #12, 51, 60, 62, 75, 78, 91, 101 in total defense; #14, 46, 54, 70, 75, 87, 94, 114 in scoring defense
2018 - #27, 32, 38, 71, 79, 97, 121 in total defense; #14, 39, 47, 49, 105, 108, 113 in scoring defense

Great, now what does that tell us? In 2017, we beat one very good defense and a bunch of mediocre to bad ones; we lost to 3 elite defenses and one atrocious one.
In 2018, we beat a couple pretty good ones, a couple mediocre ones, and a few bad ones; we lost to 5 good to very good ones.

Which is better? I have no idea. They seem pretty similar. The main difference is that we had one fewer total win in 2018, one more loss, and a team that should have been quite a bit better with all it returned.

100% agree with this. I will say that home/away matters a ton in college football typically. Which is why you see us score 0-10 points at Bama in the last decade, the only time that was different was in 2014 when we had 13 points with a minute to go. Other than UF, who probably has more overall talent on their entire team as we did, all the losses were on the road.

Mullen is one of the few coaches that I have seen that can get a team to buy in and improve in year 1. Most coaches have a slight set back before rebounding in year 2. We just have to hope Moorhead does the same.

I will say that if Moorhead's offense looks like shit at the beginning of the year through UK, AU, and UT, he better be ready to do whatever it takes against LSU or his seat will be liquid magma. With this schedule, anything below 6-6 should either get his ass canned or there should be some major changes.

[Political Hack]

1) we play a more difficult schedule.

2) we don't have near as much depth as those other teams.

3) our coaching staff was brand new and knew nothing about our players or the teams they'd be playing coming in.

4) our players were not recruited for our system.

5) most of our great players were on defense, which was a legit top 5-10 defensenin the nation. Offense was our issue.

[Liverpooldawg]

Fitz is going to get drafted
Fitz is going to get draftted as a QB
Fitz is going to be throwing passes during OTA's
Fitz will also work as a Taysom Hill type of player for the team that drafts him

Will he be on a roster in September? I can't answer that question. But what I typed above is happening

As to the rest of the thread:

We have the same people in this thread claiming our problem was our lack of talent in players 10-25 as the reason we couldnt have the type of season the other teams did. Then those same people turn around and claim we are talented this year and should win 8 games. It's hilarious.

We are losing 8-9 NFL draft picks. As I stated last Spring- the most talented team of my lifetime. We are losing elite college pass-rushers and do not have anything close behind them. Rivers is very good but he is not a big-time pass-rusher, he is more of a run-stuffer. Those losses will impact our play at LB because our DL wont dominate the way it did last year. It will also effect the Secondary because they will have to cover longer or be in lower down and distance situations. Our D will be pretty good- but likely falls into the 20's or low 30's.
Offensively- we are losing 3 draft picks. Our QB play likely wont be as good as last year- but could be close if Whop emerges to be the player he should be. A RB injury could hurt alot- have to stay healthy with our top 2. Kentucky will be a battle and we will be underdogs at Tenn. K-State will be no gimme. We are a 6 win team. We could steal a 7th win or we could drop to a 5 win team. I wont be surprised either way.

Was it the most talented offensive squad in your lifetime? If you say yes I'll lose what little respect I have for your opinions. I'll give you the defense because if it isn't the best we have ever had it's close.

[msstate7]

1) we play a more difficult schedule.

2) we don't have near as much depth as those other teams.

3) our coaching staff was brand new and knew nothing about our players or the teams they'd be playing coming in.

4) our players were not recruited for our system.

5) most of our great players were on defense, which was a legit top 5-10 defensenin the nation. Offense was our issue.

Good thing we hired an offensive savant. There are 129 conference teams...

In conf stats rankings nationally:
Scoring offense - 119th
Total offense - 119th
Yds/play - t94th
1st downs - 115th

[Pipedream]

A lot of arbitrary selections on the stats. I always use S&P+ because they take all of the important factors into play, plus much more. Just looking at those and averaging all of our P5 opponents from the two seasons:

2017: Average D faced was ranked 43rd; average win was ranked 56th; average loss ranked 23rd
2018: Average D faced was ranked 29th; average win was ranked 45th; average loss ranked 12th

I'd take that 2017 schedule all day every day over the one we played in 2018. It's not really close. I'm not a Moorhead apologist. The opposite, really. But it's always best to show the whole picture. He got dealt a brutal schedule. No, he probably won't have a more loaded roster during his tenure, but it's also safe to say he probably won't face as tough of a schedule as he did in year 1. Having said all that, he/the team was a massive disappointment last year. I think the schedule this year is extremely light for our standards. There is anywhere from 6-7 gimmies. I'm a wait on see on UK, but if we can't beat them at home we have major issues. Tennessee is not good, but it's on the road and we were an atrocious road team last year. That's a toss up. Auburn is really talented, but they have major QB questions. If he can swing 7 or 8 and make some headway with KT or Mayden, then 2020 could be a big year if we can keep some of our juniors in school and re tool our WR corps.

[msstate7]

A lot of arbitrary selections on the stats. I always use S&P+ because they take all of the important factors into play, plus much more. Just looking at those and averaging all of our P5 opponents from the two seasons:

2017: Average D faced was ranked 43rd; average win was ranked 56th; average loss ranked 23rd
2018: Average D faced was ranked 29th; average win was ranked 45th; average loss ranked 12th

I'd take that 2017 schedule all day every day over the one we played in 2018. It's not really close. I'm not a Moorhead apologist. The opposite, really. But it's always best to show the whole picture. He got dealt a brutal schedule. No, he probably won't have a more loaded roster during his tenure, but it's also safe to say he probably won't face as tough of a schedule as he did in year 1. Having said all that, he/the team was a massive disappointment last year. I think the schedule this year is extremely light for our standards. There is anywhere from 6-7 gimmies. I'm a wait on see on UK, but if we can't beat them at home we have major issues. Tennessee is not good, but it's on the road and we were an atrocious road team last year. That's a toss up. Auburn is really talented, but they have major QB questions. If he can swing 7 or 8 and make some headway with KT or Mayden, then 2020 could be a big year if we can keep some of our juniors in school and re tool our WR corps.

I like s&p+, but it lost me with these final rankings:
1. Bama
2. Georgia
3. Clemson
7. Auburn
8. Miss st
9. Florida
12. Mizzou
15. Penn st
20. South Carolina
25. Kentucky

Can you really look me in the face and tell me not only is Bama better than Clemson, but so is Georgia? Auburn is the #7 team in the country? Kentucky is worse than 5 teams they beat?

Auburn had a crap load of explosive plays in the bowl game, and it completely wrecked the s&p formula.

[Coach34]

Was it the most talented offensive squad in your lifetime? If you say yes I'll lose what little respect I have for your opinions. I'll give you the defense because if it isn't the best we have ever had it's close.

Center will be a top draft pick
OG will be drafted
QB who is the SEC all-time leading rusher will be drafted

Williams and Hill likely drafted next April- Thats 5 of our 11 starters will be drafted within 2 seasons. Could be more drafted with the OL as well. It's easily one of our more talented offenses we have had. The lack of talent at WR was certainly a problem tho.

Whats funny is your trying to downplay the offensive talent we has yet thinking the offense could be better in 2019 after losing 3 draft picks.

[Political Hack]

Good thing we hired an offensive savant. There are 129 conference teams...

In conf stats rankings nationally:
Scoring offense - 119th
Total offense - 119th
Yds/play - t94th
1st downs - 115th

You're not gonna get me arguing that our offense was good. It was awful. Hard to watch.

But JoMo didn't have what those other coaches had. Continuity alone is huge, but to mention all of our best players were defensive guys.

[BigEasyDawg]

Brandt writes that Simmons is a high risk/ high reward type player.

Htf is he high risk? Did he do anytype of homework at all on him?

[msstate7]

Brandt writes that Simmons is a high risk/ high reward type player.

Htf is he high risk? Did he do anytype of homework at all on him?

I'd think drafting any player with a significant injury in the 1st round is risky.

[Tbonewannabe]

I like s&p+, but it lost me with these final rankings:
1. Bama
2. Georgia
3. Clemson
7. Auburn
8. Miss st
9. Florida
12. Mizzou
15. Penn st
20. South Carolina
25. Kentucky

Can you really look me in the face and tell me not only is Bama better than Clemson, but so is Georgia? Auburn is the #7 team in the country? Kentucky is worse than 5 teams they beat?

Auburn had a crap load of explosive plays in the bowl game, and it completely wrecked the s&p formula.

It might not be perfect but it does take into account a lot of statistics. It isn't perfect but it does make a little more sense than just comparing a Bama close loss at home when they have multiple starters out vs a game at Bama when they are full strength.

[Liverpooldawg]

Center will be a top draft pick
OG will be drafted
QB who is the SEC all-time leading rusher will be drafted

Williams and Hill likely drafted next April- Thats 5 of our 11 starters will be drafted within 2 seasons. Could be more drafted with the OL as well. It's easily one of our more talented offenses we have had. The lack of talent at WR was certainly a problem tho.

Whats funny is your trying to downplay the offensive talent we has yet thinking the offense could be better in 2019 after losing 3 draft picks.

Unreal. We did NOT have a passing game. If we had we would have been hard to handle. This team reminded me of the 1981 team. One of the best defenses ever, studded with talent, maybe more and better than this year; an offense that had a decent line and a good running game featuring a great running back and a QB that could run the heck out of the ball, but little to no passing threat. The results were similar too.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Our main problem was our quarterback's ability to throw the football. He gave us everything he had, but he was just awful throwing the football. We did have drops and our receivers are below average, but Nick was really bad throwing the football against any defense with a pulse (minus A&M but even they were terrible on pass defense). I expect our offense to improve slightly and our defense to decrease more than our offense improves. It won't be shown in the W/L record because the schedule this year is much much easier and we are going to win 8 games.

I think this is a pretty good summary but I think the defense wont step back nearly as much as the naysayers on here will tell you. We are still going to be good enough there to keep us in every game we play. Fitz was actually one of the biggest reasons we improved offensively after LSU but the time off before the bowl must have really hurt him bc he went wayyyy backwards. Thats what I mean in saying this is by far the most QB dependent offense you can run.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I know you are a football guy - but I'm going to push back on this a bit. 3 of our losses came in games that were old school defensive wars. Kentucky flat out stuffed our running game and forced us into down and distance all night between sacks and our own stupid penalties. Running more in that game would not have impacted the outcome. And the top defense in the country could not contain Benny Snell - and 2 defensive penalties kept 2 scoring drives alive. That loss was a team effort. UF shut down our running game as well (although not as bad as UK did). So again, we are forced to pass and the combination of inefficient QB and bad WR kills us. Combine it with 6 sacks, and its a killer. Running more would not have changed the outcome. LSU was mostly on Nick - our ground game was effective enough for a defensive game, but we were killed by the picks. But it is THE game that not having a single SEC level receiver impacted us the most in my opinion. LSU's DB core suffocated our WR, and I think made Nick force his throws more out of desperation. So, running the ball more might have impacted the outcome of the game.

Bama was Bama - two 1st Q scores and we all know we have never had the offense to come back down 14 to Bama.

Iowa was totally different. People have put a lot of blame on the offense and in particular Nick - but never mention Abrams blowing coverage on a 75 yard TD, Tommy Champion's holding negating a 51 yard pass completion that put us on the 2, or Eiland blowing his assignment and getting Nick blindsided resulting in a fumble and a quick TD. And in spite of that - we are a dropped TD from winning. But, let's dog the coaches and get the pitch forks and torches.

I don't see how a lot of our fans ever survived the Jackie Sherrill era. For all the great the Kang did for us - this season looked a whole helluva lot like most of his seasons did - we were in position to win virtually every game, and player execution and talent holes at critical positions cost us. It's frustrating as hell, but I'm not going to throw Moorhead out for it.

Im not throwing him out either. We ran the ball pretty well in the first half vs UF. Something like 93 yards at the half then we got away from it for whatever reason in the 2nd. UK was a winnable game, I do think we walked into a hornets nest that night. They were pissed off and hungry after we had beaten their ass like 10 years in a row. We werent prepared and it showed. If we punch it in that first drive vs LSU that is a totally different ball game, along with Bama with 2 fumbles. One of them is probably a scoop and score so the refs showed us early we were NOT winning that game, no matter what we did...I dont literally mean run the ball 3 times and punt every single possession obviously but a serious commitment to running it more than we did, specifically with 8 and 27 would have won us 10 games. You can pick out this play and that play throughout every game thats how football is. But its hard to pick them out against the best defense in the country that carried us on their backs all year long.

[BuckyIsAB****]

And we play in a margin of error league. The difference between 10-2 and 7-5 is a lot narrower then people want to portray it because of the overall talent level. If you are not on your A game week in and week out, the SEC will eat you. Typically all but about 2-3 teams (2018 that was UPig and OM) will make you pay for a singular error, and those errors typically can turn the game. When an SEC team smells blood, they go in for the kill and you lose.

Some seasons - like 2018 - we were on the receiving end of the kill. Some seasons - like 2014 and to a degree 2017 - we are the team that pounces.
Think about 2014 - our best team of this century. As well as we played at LSU - that game hinged on couple of LSU mistakes (the blown coverage Jameon Lewis, never putting adjusting to Dak's running) that still had to be sealed by a Will Redmond INT at the end of the game. Where would we have been against A&M without Richie Brown's 3 picks; or against AU without a pick and a fumble recovery on the first 2 AU possessions that let us jump out to a 14-0 lead (in a game we only won by 15). That season could just as easily been 8-5 without those handful of plays - not to mention getting damn lucky against Arkansas with a Redmond pick on our own 16.

The difference in the two seasons - when in position to win games in 2014 we had players execute and perform, in 2018 we had players who didn't. That is as much or more on the players then the coaches.

The reason LSU came back sat squarely with Dan Mullen. He called the dogs off and he knew he did. The reason we flamed out down the stretch that year was Dan Mullen. He had his eyes elsewhere after he tucked tail against Bama after 1 quarter. 2015 Mullen did a shit job of getting us ready for LSU and we lose a game at home to them that is the difference in a 9 and 10 win season. Along with having his eyes on UGA after the Bama game AGAIN and leads to us shitting the bed in the 1H against OM at home. That year couldve been an 11 win season with a terrible OL but it took Mullen till the 2H of LSU at home to figure out we couldnt run inside zone with Brandon Holloway and he didnt give a shit about OM after we lost to Bama. Credit Dak and the team for coming back against them the way they did bc Dan couldnt have cared less. Just like 2017

[HoopsDawg]

Im not throwing him out either. We ran the ball pretty well in the first half vs UF. Something like 93 yards at the half then we got away from it for whatever reason in the 2nd. UK was a winnable game, I do think we walked into a hornets nest that night. They were pissed off and hungry after we had beaten their ass like 10 years in a row. We werent prepared and it showed. If we punch it in that first drive vs LSU that is a totally different ball game, along with Bama with 2 fumbles. One of them is probably a scoop and score so the refs showed us early we were NOT winning that game, no matter what we did...I dont literally mean run the ball 3 times and punt every single possession obviously but a serious commitment to running it more than we did, specifically with 8 and 27 would have won us 10 games. You can pick out this play and that play throughout every game thats how football is. But its hard to pick them out against the best defense in the country that carried us on their backs all year long.

We lost the UK game b/c of Joe Moorhead and Josh Allen. I haven't seen one player dominate a game like that since Dwight Freeney against UT and before that it was Derrick Thomas against almost everyone. Moorehead did nothing to neutralize him until it was too late and our game plan the whole night in the rain was just awful. Completely undisciplined game.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Fitz is going to get drafted
Fitz is going to get draftted as a QB
Fitz is going to be throwing passes during OTA's
Fitz will also work as a Taysom Hill type of player for the team that drafts him

Will he be on a roster in September? I can't answer that question. But what I typed above is happening

As to the rest of the thread:

We have the same people in this thread claiming our problem was our lack of talent in players 10-25 as the reason we couldnt have the type of season the other teams did. Then those same people turn around and claim we are talented this year and should win 8 games. It's hilarious.

We are losing 8-9 NFL draft picks. As I stated last Spring- the most talented team of my lifetime. We are losing elite college pass-rushers and do not have anything close behind them. Rivers is very good but he is not a big-time pass-rusher, he is more of a run-stuffer. Those losses will impact our play at LB because our DL wont dominate the way it did last year. It will also effect the Secondary because they will have to cover longer or be in lower down and distance situations. Our D will be pretty good- but likely falls into the 20's or low 30's.
Offensively- we are losing 3 draft picks. Our QB play likely wont be as good as last year- but could be close if Whop emerges to be the player he should be. A RB injury could hurt alot- have to stay healthy with our top 2. Kentucky will be a battle and we will be underdogs at Tenn. K-State will be no gimme. We are a 6 win team. We could steal a 7th win or we could drop to a 5 win team. I wont be surprised either way.

The best non conf team we will play in 2018 will be USM. If we lose to UT in 2018 or KSU you can piss on the fire and call the dogs for Moorhead bc we are better than both of them and UK.

You are just always negative bc its your thing. We get it. But this schedule is much easier and we are going to be as good or better on the OL with a good runner at QB and RB. 8 wins maybe 7

[Coach34]

You are just always negative bc its your thing. We get it.

Huh? I predicted the 2018 team to win the SEC because we were one of the most talented teams in the country. How is that negative?

[Coach34]

Unreal. We did NOT have a passing game. If we had we would have been hard to handle. This team reminded me of the 1981 team. One of the best defenses ever, studded with talent, maybe more and better than this year; an offense that had a decent line and a good running game featuring a great running back and a QB that could run the heck out of the ball, but little to no passing threat. The results were similar too.

2 missed passes away from 10 wins.
Fitz was 12 TD passes to 2 picks the last 6 games- 1 of those picks was a Guidry dropped pass he bobbled into a defender's arms.
Our problem was shitty WR's and terrible offensive gameplans from our offensive staff. Prepare to see alot more of it in 2019

Dan Mullen wins 11-12 games with that team in 2018.

[Liverpooldawg]

2 missed passes away from 10 wins.
Fitz was 12 TD passes to 2 picks the last 6 games- 1 of those picks was a Guidry dropped pass he bobbled into a defender's arms.
Our problem was shitty WR's and terrible offensive gameplans from our offensive staff. Prepare to see alot more of it in 2019

Dan Mullen wins 11-12 games with that team in 2018.

The only sure win with Mullen was Florida.....mainly because he wouldn't have been at Florida. Kentucky Ambushed us, and would have with Mullen too. LSU maybe p, maybe not. Alabama, no way. Iowa......win the Florida game and we get a better bowl with a better opponent. I predicted 8-4 regular season and that's what we did. I never bought into the hype because we had no passing game and we were going to a system that needed one. I like Fitz, he is one of my all time favorite Dawgs, but he is what he is. Combine that with the WRs, you get a team that did about as well as it could do. The Florida game is the only one that still rankles me.

[Homedawg]

I think this is a pretty good summary but I think the defense wont step back nearly as much as the naysayers on here will tell you. We are still going to be good enough there to keep us in every game we play. Fitz was actually one of the biggest reasons we improved offensively after LSU but the time off before the bowl must have really hurt him bc he went wayyyy backwards. Thats what I mean in saying this is by far the most QB dependent offense you can run.

Define step back? We won't be too 20 in the country good. Top 30 would be great. More like top 40.

[Todd4State]

The only sure win with Mullen was Florida.....mainly because he wouldn't have been at Florida. Kentucky Ambushed us, and would have with Mullen too. LSU maybe p, maybe not. Alabama, no way. Iowa......win the Florida game and we get a better bowl with a better opponent. I predicted 8-4 regular season and that's what we did. I never bought into the hype because we had no passing game and we were going to a system that needed one. I like Fitz, he is one of my all time favorite Dawgs, but he is what he is. Combine that with the WRs, you get a team that did about as well as it could do. The Florida game is the only one that still rankles me.

Since Dan couldn't beat Kentucky at home with Florida I'd say that the odds of him beating them with our team last year are relatively unlikely.

[Homedawg]

Since Dan couldn't beat Kentucky at home with Florida I'd say that the odds of him beating them with our team last year are relatively unlikely.

We had a better team than he did. Not even close. He and graham outcoached jomo that game. Fla wasn't better than us. Dan did a way better job coaching his team than jomo did his forays season anyway. Not close.

[Jarius]

2 missed passes away from 10 wins.
Fitz was 12 TD passes to 2 picks the last 6 games- 1 of those picks was a Guidry dropped pass he bobbled into a defender's arms.
Our problem was shitty WR's and terrible offensive gameplans from our offensive staff. Prepare to see alot more of it in 2019

Dan Mullen wins 11-12 games with that team in 2018.


Fitz was fine when he played awful defenses, hence his numbers in the last 6 games. He could not process the defense fast enough in our 5 losses, hence his numbers in those games.

[Todd4State]

We had a better team than he did. Not even close. He and graham outcoached jomo that game. Fla wasn't better than us. Dan did a way better job coaching his team than jomo did his forays season anyway. Not close.

I can't remember us losing to anyone like Mizzou by three TD's at home last year. Or losing to someone at home for the first time in 30 years. Dan did.


He had a feel good season because he replaced a coach that wasn't well liked and beat his rivals. We'll see how much their fans like him when he is putting his name out for NFL jobs around the time they play Florida State in about two more years.

[R2Dawg]

Moorhead had to change the culture or something...

HaHa, good one 7.

[R2Dawg]

It?s possible we will have four first rounders.

I?m proud and pissed all at the same time.

Yep quite a conflict.

[smootness]

Since Dan couldn't beat Kentucky at home with Florida I'd say that the odds of him beating them with our team last year are relatively unlikely.

Since Mullen only lost to UK once at State, with a team far worse than last year's was, I would say the odds of beating them with our team last year are quite high.

[Todd4State]

Since Mullen only lost to UK once at State, with a team far worse than last year's was, I would say the odds of beating them with our team last year are quite high.

UK was also far worse in 2016 than they were last year. We lost to the best UK football team the last 40 years on the road. They would have been just as up for that game against us with Dan as our coach.

[smootness]

UK was also far worse in 2016 than they were last year. We lost to the best UK football team the last 40 years on the road. They would have been just as up for that game against us with Dan as our coach.

And we still would have beaten them.

We were better than UK last year. Pretty clearly. Mullen would have gotten it done.

[Todd4State]

And we still would have beaten them.

We were better than UK last year. Pretty clearly. Mullen would have gotten it done.

No we weren't. And no Dan wouldn't have "gotten it done". He couldn't get it done with a Florida team in Gainesville that beat our team on the road. He's not going to get it done in Lexington with our same team.

[HoopsDawg]

No we weren't. And no Dan wouldn't have "gotten it done". He couldn't get it done with a Florida team in Gainesville that beat our team on the road. He's not going to get it done in Lexington with our same team.

We were way more talented than UK last year. Silly to say otherwise.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Huh? I predicted the 2018 team to win the SEC because we were one of the most talented teams in the country. How is that negative?

At the time we were all riding high and you were following the crowd. I was high as well cant say I blame you for that

[BuckyIsAB****]

Define step back? We won't be too 20 in the country good. Top 30 would be great. More like top 40.

We will have a top 20-25 defense in the country. Any thought otherwise is just wanting Moorhead gone. Literally the only concern is DT and that will get better with reps. The rest is going to be damn good

[Liverpooldawg]

No we weren't. And no Dan wouldn't have "gotten it done". He couldn't get it done with a Florida team in Gainesville that beat our team on the road. He's not going to get it done in Lexington with our same team.

As I have said, the only game I think that would have flipped was Florida. THAT has more to do with Mullen at Florida than it does whoever was coaching us. Mullen is a really good coach, and he KNEW us like the back of his hand. No matter if Mullen left or not, if he hadn't gone to Florida, we win that one. I wish he had gone to UT. They are a potential giant, but they ain't in Florida's league there. I STILL think we could have held on to him, for better or worse, if it wasn't for our fans. Some of us made sure that the rumors would eventually be correct. Stans redux, except Joe ain't Rick Ray.

[Liverpooldawg]

Huh? I predicted the 2018 team to win the SEC because we were one of the most talented teams in the country. How is that negative?

You actually DID? LOL, how much money did you lose? Or does your money not follow your mouth?

[Todd4State]

We were way more talented than UK last year. Silly to say otherwise.

What did the scoreboard say? How did they do the rest of the year? They also had one of the top defensive players in the country to go along with one of the best running backs in the league.

[Todd4State]

As I have said, the only game I think that would have flipped was Florida. THAT has more to do with Mullen at Florida than it does whoever was coaching us. Mullen is a really good coach, and he KNEW us like the back of his hand. No matter if Mullen left or not, if he hadn't gone to Florida, we win that one. I wish he had gone to UT. They are a potential giant, but they ain't in Florida's league there. I STILL think we could have held on to him, for better or worse, if it wasn't for our fans. Some of us made sure that the rumors would eventually be correct. Stans redux, except Joe ain't Rick Ray.

I agree about the Florida game.

You're wrong about Dan and our fans though. We did everything we could to keep him. We overpaid him for what we got from him- which was honestly the main reason why he couldn't leave. He was the one that wanted to leave and was constantly trying to do so for years. He has too much of an ego to care about any of our fans. I suspect that he will try to do the same thing to Florida in a couple of years but try to move on to the NFL.


His recruiting and his constant trying to leave limited what he would do here. That's Joe's biggest obstacle right now IMO besides the fact that a lot of our fans just don't like him for whatever reason.

[CadaverDawg]

Haven't read this whole thread but

1. We were more talented than UK last year

2. We should have beaten them

3. We would have beaten them with Mullen

4. We lost bc of Moorhead (no adjustment to LT getting whipped, Didn't rely on the run game on the road, couldn't get his guys to keep their composure, etc)

5. We should have beaten Florida and Iowa too.

6. Mullen would have beaten Florida and Iowa

7. Moorhead cost us Florida and Iowa for basically the same reasons as we lost the UK game (not leaning on our strength...the run game, etc)

8. We should have won 11 games last season (including bowl)

9. Mullen would have

10. F Mullen

11. F Moorhead

12. F y'all for bringing this shit back up

13. F me I'm going to sleep

14. As you can see, I'm still not over last year's failure

[HoopsDawg]

Haven't read this whole thread but

1. We were more talented than UK last year

2. We should have beaten them

3. We would have beaten them with Mullen

4. We lost bc of Moorhead (no adjustment to LT getting whipped, Didn't rely on the run game on the road, couldn't get his guys to keep their composure, etc)

5. We should have beaten Florida and Iowa too.

6. Mullen would have beaten Florida and Iowa

7. Moorhead cost us Florida and Iowa for basically the same reasons as we lost the UK game (not leaning on our strength...the run game, etc)

8. We should have won 11 games last season (including bowl)

9. Mullen would have

10. F Mullen

11. F Moorhead

12. F y'all for bringing this shit back up

13. F me I'm going to sleep

14. As you can see, I'm still not over last year's failure

Yes. All of this.

[Homedawg]

We will have a top 20-25 defense in the country. Any thought otherwise is just wanting Moorhead gone. Literally the only concern is DT and that will get better with reps. The rest is going to be damn good

Ok. Hope you are right. But, dt is a pretty big deal and we don't have a pass rushing threat at de. And Adams and Jones are going to see how it is when you don't have two first rounders lined up beside you.

[TUSK]

Haven't read this whole thread but

1. We were more talented than UK last year

2. We should have beaten them

3. We would have beaten them with Mullen

4. We lost bc of Moorhead (no adjustment to LT getting whipped, Didn't rely on the run game on the road, couldn't get his guys to keep their composure, etc)

5. We should have beaten Florida and Iowa too.

6. Mullen would have beaten Florida and Iowa

7. Moorhead cost us Florida and Iowa for basically the same reasons as we lost the UK game (not leaning on our strength...the run game, etc)

8. We should have won 11 games last season (including bowl)

9. Mullen would have

10. F Mullen

11. F Moorhead

12. F y'all for bringing this shit back up

13. F me I'm going to sleep

14. As you can see, I'm still not over last year's failure

Yep.

[Liverpooldawg]

I agree about the Florida game.

You're wrong about Dan and our fans though. We did everything we could to keep him. We overpaid him for what we got from him- which was honestly the main reason why he couldn't leave. He was the one that wanted to leave and was constantly trying to do so for years. He has too much of an ego to care about any of our fans. I suspect that he will try to do the same thing to Florida in a couple of years but try to move on to the NFL.


His recruiting and his constant trying to leave limited what he would do here. That's Joe's biggest obstacle right now IMO besides the fact that a lot of our fans just don't like him for whatever reason.
Our administration did everything they could do to keep him, I agree. I think Mullen was neither here nor there about leaving. He kept his ear to the ground, like smart coaches do. "Our" fans especially the more visible and vocal ones, did everything they could do to run him off, starting before 14, but they ramped it up that year. I would have been looking too given what people like 34 had to say after that year. It wasn't 34 personally, he is a mirror. That mirror was NOT and never has been flattering. We will never escape what we are till we grow beyond that. I hope to live to see it, but I'm 55. I doubt I will. It's too ingrained.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just curious but did any of the people that want Moorhead gone immediately, did any of you actually hate the hire at the time? A lot of people now think Cohen did a shitty job hiring him but I don't remember anyone not think he was probably the best person we could hire. It was almost universal in the media that thought he was a homerun hire and we hired better than most schools that didn't just poach another coach like UF did to us.

I completely understand that last year was a let down but other than UF, we lost to top 15 teams on the road. How many of those games did Mullen win in 9 years? I am going to guess zero wins over teams who finished top 15 on the road.

[Tbonewannabe]

Duplicate post

[BrunswickDawg]

Just curious but did any of the people that want Moorhead gone immediately, did any of you actually hate the hire at the time? A lot of people now think Cohen did a shitty job hiring him but I don't remember anyone not think he was probably the best person we could hire. It was almost universal in the media that thought he was a homerun hire and we hired better than most schools that didn't just poach another coach like UF did to us.

I completely understand that last year was a let down but other than UF, we lost to top 15 teams on the road. How many of those games did Mullen win in 9 years? I am going to guess zero wins over teams who finished top 15 on the road.

Mullen only won 3 road games against teams ranked in the AP Top 25 at the time of the game in 9 seasons. Only 1 finished in the AP Top 25

'09 @ #20 OM - finished #20 in the AP
'10 @ #22 Florida - finished unranked in the AP
'14 @ #8 LSU - finished unranked in AP

[DancingRabbit]

https://media.giphy.com/media/EO8UXAUbKGsGQ/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/arvinddevalia.images/bendoverbackwards.jpg

https://diasporadical.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

[Really Clark?]

Mullen only won 3 road games against teams ranked in the AP Top 25 at the time of the game in 9 seasons. Only 1 finished in the AP Top 25

'09 @ #20 OM - finished #20 in the AP
'10 @ #22 Florida - finished unranked in the AP
'14 @ #8 LSU - finished unranked in AP

He did it twice last year at Florida vs Us and Michigan (not a road game though just bowl)

[Tbonewannabe]

He did it twice last year at Florida vs Us and Michigan

Does LSU claim all the National Titles that Saban won at Bama because this is exactly the same situation?

UF has consistently recruited around a top 15 class for the last forever, MSU's best class in forever isn't even top 15. We had several great players last year but UF also has several possible 1st round picks themselves.

[Really Clark?]

Does LSU claim all the National Titles that Saban won at Bama because this is exactly the same situation?

UF has consistently recruited around a top 15 class for the last forever, MSU's best class in forever isn't even top 15. We had several great players last year but UF also has several possible 1st round picks themselves.

Didn’t say otherwise. Just adding to the COACH record under that criteria. You said it might have been zero in 9 years, it wasn’t not that it was great and I was just expanding the discussion to his entire career

[Tbonewannabe]

Didn’t say otherwise. Just adding to the COACH record under that criteria. You said it might have been zero in 9 years, it wasn’t not that it was great and I was just expanding the discussion to his entire career

Well, he also lost at home to UK then so all the people that say he would have won on the road in a rainstorm are wrong I guess.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Ok. Hope you are right. But, dt is a pretty big deal and we don't have a pass rushing threat at de. And Adams and Jones are going to see how it is when you don't have two first rounders lined up beside you.

Marquis Spencer is a good pass rusher. Fletcher Adams and Rivers are all proven DL in this league. We could use a grad transfer but its not the end of the world if we dont get a good one. If you cant get pressure with just 4 then you bring zone pressure. Or 0 pressure. Shoop will get it done. He was the biggest and most pleasant surprise of it all to me. I was worried about him a year ago at this time

[BuckyIsAB****]

Mullen only won 3 road games against teams ranked in the AP Top 25 at the time of the game in 9 seasons. Only 1 finished in the AP Top 25

'09 @ #20 OM - finished #20 in the AP
'10 @ #22 Florida - finished unranked in the AP
'14 @ #8 LSU - finished unranked in AP

OM was at home in 09

[Tbonewannabe]

Marquis Spencer is a good pass rusher. Fletcher Adams and Rivers are all proven DL in this league. We could use a grad transfer but its not the end of the world if we dont get a good one. If you cant get pressure with just 4 then you bring zone pressure. Or 0 pressure. Shoop will get it done. He was the biggest and most pleasant surprise of it all to me. I was worried about him a year ago at this time

Chauncey Rivers was also called out a lot for being one of the better Dline last year when we had Simmons and Sweat. He was in a lot on 3rd down so I think he will take a big step forward and be a 1st-2nd round type talent this year. Unless we get a grad transfer or move some DE into the DT spot, we are going to be young in that position. Between Lovett and Pickering there is a lot of talent but Freshmen typically don't do well in the SEC. At best you hope they kind of hold their own.

[Tbonewannabe]

OM was at home in 09

It is amazing how people disregard how much of an advantage playing at home vs playing on the road. I guess it doesn't fit into their agenda so ignore it. It is the same with the UK team last year. Put their record and stats under the name Georgia or Florida and people would think you were crazy to think we should have won a road game in a rain storm.

[msstate7]

It is amazing how people disregard how much of an advantage playing at home vs playing on the road. I guess it doesn't fit into their agenda so ignore it. It is the same with the UK team last year. Put their record and stats under the name Georgia or Florida and people would think you were crazy to think we should have won a road game in a rain storm.

Best defense in the country, 3 olinemen that will play in the nfl, sec's all time leading rusher for a qb, senior rb that ran for 1100 the previous year, and a hot shot talented young RB. Rain seems like the perfect conditions

[BuckyIsAB****]

Chauncey Rivers was also called out a lot for being one of the better Dline last year when we had Simmons and Sweat. He was in a lot on 3rd down so I think he will take a big step forward and be a 1st-2nd round type talent this year. Unless we get a grad transfer or move some DE into the DT spot, we are going to be young in that position. Between Lovett and Pickering there is a lot of talent but Freshmen typically don't do well in the SEC. At best you hope they kind of hold their own.

Terry Beckner Jr was great as a FR DT for Mizzou a while back. Manziel lit it up as a freshman. Im not arguing Im just making points. We are going to be young at DT regardless of a transfer but the talent is there. Crumedy and Lovett are going to be good ones and Pickering could play tomorrow at his size.

I dont think we move a DE unless its Odom. He is the only one big enough at 275-280 and he would have no reps at it either.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Best defense in the country, 3 olinemen that will play in the nfl, sec's all time leading rusher for a qb, senior rb that ran for 1100 the previous year, and a hot shot talented young RB. Rain seems like the perfect conditions

UK and Iowa were unacceptable losses. UF was a bad loss but not unacceptable bc Mullen knew those kids better than Moorhead did apparently. (Shouldnt have been the case) Those all 3 should have been wins.

BUT lets not act like we went 4-8. Like I've said, 6-6 this year and I would be fine with cutting bait

[DancingRabbit]

Seems like a lot of former Dan haters are now polishing his, uh "rep".

Three years ago we lost to Kentucky, South Alabama and BYU all in the same year. My how absence makes the heart grow fonder.

[msstate7]

Seems like a lot of former Dan haters are now polishing his, uh "rep".

Three years ago we lost to Kentucky, South Alabama and BYU all in the same year. My how absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Mullen was/is a damn good coach. To imply otherwise is really stupid

[Tbonewannabe]

Best defense in the country, 3 olinemen that will play in the nfl, sec's all time leading rusher for a qb, senior rb that ran for 1100 the previous year, and a hot shot talented young RB. Rain seems like the perfect conditions

I personally think we should have won that game but making it like it should have been an easy win isn't realistic. A lot of what you just said could be applied to or close to our 6 win team in 2011. Sometimes things don't work out like you would think.

Moorhead underperformed with this talent but he also brought Bob Shoop who took a top 25 defense and turned it into #1. It isn't a given that they are that good under Grantham.

I think if Mullen had stayed then we probably win 10 games but you can't say for sure because weird things happen. Mullen took a UF team that had talent and beat the shit out of Michigan but he also lost at home to UK for the first time in over 30 years. He also got brutally raped in Jacksonville against UGA. The talent on UF is a lot closer to UGA than MSU to Bama or LSU.

[Tbonewannabe]

Mullen was/is a damn good coach. To imply otherwise is really stupid

And Moorhead is widely considered by everyone except some MSU fans as a great coach. I believe he was showing that even good coaches can have an off year. We will see what kind of offense we have this year.

[msstate7]

And Moorhead is widely considered by everyone except some MSU fans as a great coach. I believe he was showing that even good coaches can have an off year. We will see what kind of offense we have this year.

Everyone considered McE a great coach too. Not saying Moorhead will crash and burn like that, but people's opinions don't win games

[deadheaddawg]

Mullen was/is a damn good coach. To imply otherwise is really stupid

It is also really stupid to imply that we know if Moorhead will be or wont be yet. His first year as a major level HC, with a very specialized QB, made for a different style of offense, just isn't a very good basket for people to keep putting all their eggs in.

Its also really really really really really really stupid to compare the results of coach in his first year, to one who had 9 years to build a program. Yet here we are. Again. In the middle of April, with another of these dumbass threads

[msstate7]

It is also really stupid to imply that we know if Moorhead will be or wont be yet. His first year as a major level HC, with a very specialized QB, made for a different style of offense, just isn't a very good basket for people to keep putting all their eggs in.

Its also really really really really really really stupid to compare the results of coach in his first year, to one who had 9 years to build a program. Yet here we are. Again. In the middle of April, with another of these dumbass threads

Moorhead stepped into an extremely unusual situation... he took over a preseason top 20 team. Bc of that, he shouldn't be judged like a normal first year coach. It wasn't the OP in this thread that said no one picked up this offense faster, told fitz to clear off the mantle for a heisman, told players to know their ring sizes, or that we will hold ourselves to a championship standard. No, it was Moorhead that did/said that.

[DancingRabbit]

Mullen was/is a damn good coach. To imply otherwise is really stupid

It might be stupid to infer that I implied he wasn't a good coach.

[deadheaddawg]

Moorhead stepped into an extremely unusual situation... he took over a preseason top 20 team. Bc of that, he shouldn't be judged like a normal first year coach. It wasn't the OP in this thread that said no one picked up this offense faster, told fitz to clear off the mantle for a heisman, told players to know their ring sizes, or that we will hold ourselves to a championship standard. No, it was Moorhead that did/said that.

yeah, we should not have hire a coach with confidence or a high drive to win, but if that is the guage you want to use for how good a coach is, fine we can do that. How was mullen's record vs news media? Did he ever lose to Ole Miss again?

[Tbonewannabe]

Moorhead stepped into an extremely unusual situation... he took over a preseason top 20 team. Bc of that, he shouldn't be judged like a normal first year coach. It wasn't the OP in this thread that said no one picked up this offense faster, told fitz to clear off the mantle for a heisman, told players to know their ring sizes, or that we will hold ourselves to a championship standard. No, it was Moorhead that did/said that.

That honestly might be his biggest mistake last year. He inflated expectations thinking that he could improve on what Mullen had done the year before with what ended up being a LOT tougher schedule. All that talk excited the fanbase but also now has come back to bite him in the ass.

If you just look at what he did.

Lost all his top 15 match ups - which if it happens with Mullen here then we say that is normal results
Improved recruiting - we didn't improve as much as people would like but he did sign one of the best recruiting classes in the last 15 or so years.
Got us to the Outback Bowl - however it is the 2nd best Bowl in the last 20 years.

Now, the way we got those results is what everyone complaining is talking about.

Offense looked like shit against top 20 defenses. These are games we normally lost but Mullen would at least typically put up some points with the exception of several Bama games.

Offense looked pretty good against Auburn and then Moorhead didn't run those plays again. This is what makes me want to bang my head against the wall. If he ran this game plan which he proved he could do successfully, then we probably win UK, UF, and maybe have a chance at LSU. I will say that UK and UF were early after we had success running the offense and he didn't know how bad the offense would struggle against great defenses.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

I hope to live to see it, but I'm 55.

Wow! The way you post, I had you pegged as closer to 25...maybe even 15.

[Homedawg]

Marquis Spencer is a good pass rusher. Fletcher Adams and Rivers are all proven DL in this league. We could use a grad transfer but its not the end of the world if we dont get a good one. If you cant get pressure with just 4 then you bring zone pressure. Or 0 pressure. Shoop will get it done. He was the biggest and most pleasant surprise of it all to me. I was worried about him a year ago at this time

Spencer is a run stopper. Not a pass rusher. Agree Adams and rivers are solid players. Not stars. And again, they don't play DT. I'll stand by my thoughts. Hope you are correct we finish in top 20-25. Gonna need to and then some if our offense doesn't step up a LOT.