GOT: Season 8

[TrapGame]

Thoughts?

I think I see the early signs of a future Mad Queen.

No way in hell Bron kills Jaime or Tyrion. Bros before hoes on that one.

Will Jon play the "I'm really the true king" card?

Did Bran stay out all night waiting on Jaime? Winterfell is not wheelchair accessible.

[Tbonewannabe]

It will be interesting what Dany does when she finds out that Jon is actually the rightful heir. So much of her journey has been that she is the heir and that has driven her on.

I can't see Bron killing either one. I think it is just a reason to get him to Winterfell where the real fight is.

I can't see Jon saying anything at all until at least the Night King is dead. He has said himself numerous times that the crown doesn't matter right now.

Bran does what crazy 3 eyed ravens do, be creepy as 17.

[Tbonewannabe]

My wife and I were talking about it, they basically need to wrap up the fight with the Night King in the next 2 episodes. They have to still deal with who sits on the Iron Throne and then have at least 30 minutes to wrap everything up.

Our guesses:

episode 2 - starts battle at Winterfell
episode 3 - Huge battle
Episode 4 - wrap up battle and kill nightking
Episode 5 - begins battle for Iron Throne
Episode 6 - 1 hour 20 minute episode - first 45 minutes finishing up who sits on the iron throne. Last bit is wrapping up various characters (if everyone isn't basically dead) - Hot Pie or Night King if he isn't killed, on Iron Throne. Possibly Bron since he wanted a castle.

[TrapGame]

You know, I want to say the producers mentioned at comic-con in San Diego that the first three episodes were War of the Night King and the last three were last battle for the throne and wrapping it all up.

[Tbonewannabe]

You know, I want to say the producers mentioned at comic-con in San Diego that the first three episodes were War of the Night King and the last three were last battle for the throne and wrapping it all up.

Makes sense, it will be interesting to see what they do with the new Star Wars trilogy they are about to start.

[TrapGame]

Makes sense, it will be interesting to see what they do with the new Star Wars trilogy they are about to start.

I hope it erases everything past the prequels. I can live with the prequels but this new stuff is just garbage. I am interested about the live action Mandalorian coming out but it looks like it may be only streamed on the Disney version of Netflix. I'm done with paying monthly for a dozen streaming services. It starts being more than cable and that's why I cut it. I'm sure as hell not getting CBS All Access just to watch ST Discovery.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Sansa becomes the night Queen, she always wanted to be a Queen.**

[War Machine Dawg]

Thoughts?

I think I see the early signs of a future Mad Queen.

No way in hell Bron kills Jaime or Tyrion. Bros before hoes on that one.

Will Jon play the "I'm really the true king" card?

Did Bran stay out all night waiting on Jaime? Winterfell is not wheelchair accessible.

It's taken you this long? She's been the Mad Queen basically the entire series. Fitting since she's really a bastard of the Mad King (Jaime too). If she doesn't die in the end, I lose all faith in humanity.

[TrapGame]

It's taken you this long? She's been the Mad Queen basically the entire series. Fitting since she's really a bastard of the Mad King (Jaime too). If she doesn't die in the end, I lose all faith in humanity.

I'm talking about Dani. She's probably going to kill Sansa for disloyalty and Jon will either take it or kill her too. Then I guess it would be ironic if Jaime killed her just like he did her father.

[War Machine Dawg]

I'm talking about Dani. She's probably going to kill Sansa for disloyalty and Jon will either take it or kill her too. Then I guess it would be ironic if Jaime killed her just like he did her father.

Dani isn't going to kill Sansa because Dani is going to die having Jon's baby. The time I'd say she was closer to Mad Queen was executing the Tarlys needlessly. But I don't think she's anywhere near mad, just a bit harsh at times. Makes sense considering the life she's lived. Plus, that isn't the story being told. You've got to evaluate things in the larger context of the story itself. There's no indication in either the books or the show that she's on a path to become the Mad Queen. That's Cersei's arc, as the bastard daughter of the Mad King.

[Tbonewannabe]

Dani isn't going to kill Sansa because Dani is going to die having Jon's baby. The time I'd say she was closer to Mad Queen was executing the Tarlys needlessly. But I don't think she's anywhere near mad, just a bit harsh at times. Makes sense considering the life she's lived. Plus, that isn't the story being told. You've got to evaluate things in the larger context of the story itself. There's no indication in either the books or the show that she's on a path to become the Mad Queen. That's Cersei's arc, as the bastard daughter of the Mad King.

Do they think Jamie/Cersi are the Mad King's children? I know a lot of people think Tyrion is from things in the books to go along with Tywin's hatred of him. It is also why people thought from the books that he would be the third dragon rider at the time before the Night King killed Viserion.

[War Machine Dawg]

Do they think Jamie/Cersi are the Mad King's children? I know a lot of people think Tyrion is from things in the books to go along with Tywin's hatred of him. It is also why people thought from the books that he would be the third dragon rider at the time before the Night King killed Viserion.

Yes, that's the irony of Tywin's hatred of Tyrion. The whole theory that Tyrion is the bastard of the Mad King & Joanna Lannister is a red herring. It's really Jaime & Cersei that are bastard Targaeryens - Blackfyres. It's heavily foreshadowed in Cersei's story. Tyrion is the only real Lannister and Tywin's legitimate heir.

The key in GoT/ASOIAF is this line: History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. I don't remember the corollary rhyme from the history, but their was a story where a son unknowingly killed his father to save the realm. That's what happened with Jaime & Aerys. Jaime unknowingly slew his father to save King's Landing and the people. Cersei's rhyming story is going to mirror that of Alison Hightower, the Dowager Queen (look it up).

[Tbonewannabe]

Yes, that's the irony of Tywin's hatred of Tyrion. The whole theory that Tyrion is the bastard of the Mad King & Joanna Lannister is a red herring. It's really Jaime & Cersei that are bastard Targaeryens - Blackfyres. It's heavily foreshadowed in Cersei's story. Tyrion is the only real Lannister and Tywin's legitimate heir.

The key in GoT/ASOIAF is this line: History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. I don't remember the corollary rhyme from the history, but their was a story where a son unknowingly killed his father to save the realm. That's what happened with Jaime & Aerys. Jaime unknowingly slew his father to save King's Landing and the people. Cersei's rhyming story is going to mirror that of Alison Hightower, the Dowager Queen (look it up).

I looked it up and it is amazing how much time has been put into back stories now. GRRM needs to concentrate on finishing the series but I am afraid he just doesn't care now that the show will put the ending out there. I have seen it stated that the ending is supposed to be the same but how they get there will be different.

[BeardoMSU]

Pretty interesting episode...

Obviously next week the shit hits the fan.

[Tbonewannabe]

It definitely felt like a goodbye type episode. Jamie basically getting forgiveness kind of from Bran and then knighting Brienne of Tarth. I do wonder what is going to happen between Jon and Dany now that she knows he is the rightful heir. She already got pissed off by Sansa saying the North basically wants to rule themselves and then Jon tells her that he is the rightful heir and the proof is from his brother and best friend.

Dany seems to be leaning toward the Mad Queen territory and I don't trust that she doesn't go off the rails as soon as the White Walkers are taken care of.

[TrapGame]

Next week will be the Butcher's Episode. I bet we lose half the cast.

That was a really good episode setting up for the battle. I was glad to see Podrick back. He's one of my favorite minor characters. I'm sure he's done for next episode.

[Political Hack]

The dragons know Jon is Targarion (sp?). I expect that to play a role at some point.

Jamie is as good as dead. I doubt he survives episode 3. Although a lot of people are about to die.

[Tbonewannabe]

The dragons know Jon is Targarion (sp?). I expect that to play a role at some point.

Jamie is as good as dead. I doubt he survives episode 3. Although a lot of people are about to die.

I think Dany will go Mad Queen and try to draconus Jon. He will not die from dragon fire but Dany might think he is dead. Jon then realizes she went over the edge and has to kill her.

[Political Hack]

I think Dany will go Mad Queen and try to draconus Jon. He will not die from dragon fire but Dany might think he is dead. Jon then realizes she went over the edge and has to kill her.

If it doesn't end that way, it should. Be a great ending.

[TrapGame]

I think Dany will go Mad Queen and try to draconus Jon. He will not die from dragon fire but Dany might think he is dead. Jon then realizes she went over the edge and has to kill her.


If it doesn't end that way, it should. Be a great ending.

Dany kills Sansa because she won't bend the knee after the War of the Night King. Jon has to kill Dany and take the Iron Throne. He makes Samwell his Hand.

[Political Hack]

Samwell would be a great hand. So is Tyrian. I think they should let those two battle to the death. Winner gets to pick the King/Queen.

[Tbonewannabe]

Great episode and loved how Arya finished it. My wife called it when the red woman said she would kill blue eyes. I guess the TV show is just throwing all of the prophecy stuff out the window.

[TrapGame]

Holy Shit! That was a great episode. Arya coming in to kill the Night King was epic. For a moment there I thought Bran was gonna pull of some kinda Professor X psychic warfare stuff and hinder the Night King enough for Jon to level the killing blow. Nope. Bran just sits there like bait. But, of course he knew this would come to pass...yawn.

The characters that died were expected. I'm not surprised except for young Lady Mormount. I think she should have survived.

[Tbonewannabe]

Holy Shit! That was a great episode. Arya coming in to kill the Night King was epic. For a moment there I thought Bran was gonna pull of some kinda Professor X psychic warfare stuff and hinder the Night King enough for Jon to level the killing blow. Nope. Bran just sits there like bait. But, of course he knew this would come to pass...yawn.

The characters that died were expected. I'm not surprised except for young Lady Mormount. I think she should have survived.

They did give her one of the best deaths in the entire show. She died like a BOSS. I did like that Arya basically was trained for the last several years for that instant. If she isn't like a ninja then she doesn't get close to him like that. I was wondering what Bran was going to actually do. I thought the 3 eyed raven would do something other than worg into a raven to fly around. I thought he was going to take over the dragon but nope, just being boring.

They kind of turned it on its head with Jon getting trapped by the dragon. I will say that GRRM definitely has the ability to change things in the books. The Children of the Forest have basically been nonexistent except for getting Bran to the 3 eyed raven. All of the prophecy stuff didn't apply. No real mention of why the Red Priestess just accepted death after either. I figured she used most of her power to light the swords and trench but still would have liked some type of resolution. I just hope Bran maybe gives more information at some point.

Right now, the theories about Bran becoming Bran the Builder and then maybe the Night King is actually more interesting than the show ended up being.

Now there will be an episode building to Episode 5 battle. I bet the Battle for the Iron Throne will be pretty cool also. Then Episode 6 will be the conclusion of the Battle and the final ending or maybe the battle will be over in Episode 5.

[TrapGame]

They did give her one of the best deaths in the entire show. She died like a BOSS. I did like that Arya basically was trained for the last several years for that instant. If she isn't like a ninja then she doesn't get close to him like that. I was wondering what Bran was going to actually do. I thought the 3 eyed raven would do something other than worg into a raven to fly around. I thought he was going to take over the dragon but nope, just being boring.

They kind of turned it on its head with Jon getting trapped by the dragon. I will say that GRRM definitely has the ability to change things in the books. The Children of the Forest have basically been nonexistent except for getting Bran to the 3 eyed raven. All of the prophecy stuff didn't apply. No real mention of why the Red Priestess just accepted death after either. I figured she used most of her power to light the swords and trench but still would have liked some type of resolution. I just hope Bran maybe gives more information at some point.

Right now, the theories about Bran becoming Bran the Builder and then maybe the Night King is actually more interesting than the show ended up being.

Now there will be an episode building to Episode 5 battle. I bet the Battle for the Iron Throne will be pretty cool also. Then Episode 6 will be the conclusion of the Battle and the final ending or maybe the battle will be over in Episode 5.

The Golden Company ain't no screaming horde of Dathraki. They are well trained and Strickland is a military genius. That should be epic.

[Tbonewannabe]

The Golden Company ain't no screaming horde of Dathraki. They are well trained and Strickland is a military genius. That should be epic.

I honestly wonder how many people are left after the Battle at Winterfell. The Golden Company + Lannister army + Euron Greyjoy fleet should be more than enough even with 2 dragons on Dany's side. The opening credits also show the big scorpion that almost took out a Dragon with Bronn firing it from the wagon. You would think that they have had time to have plenty built to defend Kings Landing.

[TrapGame]

I honestly wonder how many people are left after the Battle at Winterfell. The Golden Company + Lannister army + Euron Greyjoy fleet should be more than enough even with 2 dragons on Dany's side. The opening credits also show the big scorpion that almost took out a Dragon with Bronn firing it from the wagon. You would think that they have had time to have plenty built to defend Kings Landing.

That's true. I think Yara kills Euron. I kinda wish Euron was a little like the book version. I haven't read all the books but from what I gather Euron is a dabbler of black magic and has been educated by the warlocks with the night shade blue lips to show for it.

[Tbonewannabe]

That's true. I think Yara kills Euron. I kinda wish Euron was a little like the book version. I haven't read all the books but from what I gather Euron is a dabbler of black magic and has been educated by the warlocks with the night shade blue lips to show for it.

He also has a horn that is supposed to control dragons. It has been a few years since I read it though.

[TrapGame]

He also has a horn that is supposed to control dragons. It has been a few years since I read it though.

That's right. Supposedly he's the only person to ever visit the ruins of Valyria and live.

[Political Hack]

Y'all are confusing me with all this reading nonsense...

I expected Arya to make a huge kill at some point, but I thought she'd be sneaking into King's Landing for that job. Hope she's not done. She's become one of my favorite characters.

Are the dragons ok? I know at least one was, but not sure both were. Was that clear by the ending?

[Tbonewannabe]

Y'all are confusing me with all this reading nonsense...

I expected Arya to make a huge kill at some point, but I thought she'd be sneaking into King's Landing for that job. Hope she's not done. She's become one of my favorite characters.

Are the dragons ok? I know at least one was, but not sure both were. Was that clear by the ending?

Read an article that said both dragons were spotted in the trailer for next week's episode. I wonder if she somehow kills Cersie since she is on the list.

[War Machine Dawg]

I expected a few more minor character deaths this past week, but I knew all the "big" characters (Sansa, Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Jaime, Dany, Brienne) would live. They've got to be around for the battle for the Iron Throne. Looks like they've definitely thrown out the prophecies relating to the Night King in the show. Now I'm more convinced than ever that the show & the books will be significantly different. I originally thought they were heading to the same ending but would get there different ways. Now that the prophecies are out the window for the show, I think they're heading somewhere different. They're making changes for surprise value now. GRRM isn't going to toss it out.

[TrapGame]

I expected a few more minor character deaths this past week, but I knew all the "big" characters (Sansa, Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Jaime, Dany, Brienne) would live. They've got to be around for the battle for the Iron Throne. Looks like they've definitely thrown out the prophecies relating to the Night King in the show. Now I'm more convinced than ever that the show & the books will be significantly different. I originally thought they were heading to the same ending but would get there different ways. Now that the prophecies are out the window for the show, I think they're heading somewhere different. They're making changes for surprise value now. GRRM isn't going to toss it out.

I thought when Melisandre showed up it was to even the odds a little with her magic. She was an effing Bic lighter in two scenes. I was hoping she would throw down with a white walker and go nuclear to take him out with about a thousand wights.

[War Machine Dawg]

I thought when Melisandre showed up it was to even the odds a little with her magic. She was an effing Bic lighter in two scenes. I was hoping she would throw down with a white walker and go nuclear to take him out with about a thousand wights.

I think she used pretty much all the juice she had left. That's why she dropped the amulet and let the wind blow her away. Magic has a price in this world, and I'm sure she's used all her currency.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think she used pretty much all the juice she had left. That's why she dropped the amulet and let the wind blow her away. Magic has a price in this world, and I'm sure she's used all her currency.

The amulet was pretty dim when she took it off so I think you are right. It went dark when she dropped it.

[Intramural All-American]

I just kinda want to see this happen. During the fight at Kings landing, Jon and danys army is getting smashed, but at the end Dario Naharis comes in to save the day with those dang elephants that Cersei didn?t get. To make it even better, have Jaqen Hagar have taken the face of a higher up in essos to take command of the elephants. That exact situation seems implausible, but I definitely think the elephants come into play in the battle.

[TrapGame]

I just kinda want to see this happen. During the fight at Kings landing, Jon and danys army is getting smashed, but at the end Dario Naharis comes in to save the day with those dang elephants that Cersei didn?t get. To make it even better, have Jaqen Hagar have taken the face of a higher up in essos to take command of the elephants. That exact situation seems implausible, but I definitely think the elephants come into play in the battle.

I forgot about Dario. He's the captain of the Second Sons now. I bet Dany sends word to him in Essos to sail them to Dragonstone for the Battle of King's Landing.

[Tbonewannabe]

I forgot about Dario. He's the captain of the Second Sons now. I bet Dany sends word to him in Essos to sail them to Dragonstone for the Battle of King's Landing.

Yes, the Second Sons are supposed to be the next best mercenaries. It would be cool to see elephants and Cersei say some shit.

[msstate7]

The battle with the dead was what I looked forward to the most so I'm pretty disappointed it ended in 1 episode without the night king even using his sword

[TrapGame]

The battle with the dead was what I looked forward to the most so I'm pretty disappointed it ended in 1 episode without the night king even using his sword

But it was an hour and twenty two minute episode.

[msstate7]

But it was an hour and twenty two minute episode.

Read some fan theories, and some think the NK isn't completely dead. They theorized that he passed part of himself to bran when he marked him

[Tbonewannabe]

The battle with the dead was what I looked forward to the most so I'm pretty disappointed it ended in 1 episode without the night king even using his sword

I agree, I wish that Jon had gotten to him and had some type of fight with the Night King then raising the dead to go after Bran. The battle itself was great but as much as I LOVED Arya going ninja and killing him, that was a little anticlimatic.

[Tbonewannabe]

One thing that bothered me about the episode was Jon staring at the Ice Dragon. My wife read an article that explained it. Jon stood up to draw the dragon's attention and then he was yelling Go to Arya to run by. That is how Arya got close to the NK and you see one of the Lt hair blow as she runs by. It makes a lot more sense that way.

[TrapGame]

One thing that bothered me about the episode was Jon staring at the Ice Dragon. My wife read an article that explained it. Jon stood up to draw the dragon's attention and then he was yelling Go to Arya to run by. That is how Arya got close to the NK and you see one of the Lt hair blow as she runs by. It makes a lot more sense that way.

I read that article too. I'm not quite buying it.

[TrapGame]

Read some fan theories, and some think the NK isn't completely dead. They theorized that he passed part of himself to bran when he marked him

90% of the fan theories are have turned out to be shit.

[BeardoMSU]

Welp....that shit took a dark turn.

[TrapGame]

Another dragon bites the dust. Grey Worm is a pissed off m'fer now.

[Political Hack]

She turned and ran when the battle got tough.

She's lost the north. She's lost the wildlings. She's lost most of her army. She's lost 2 of her 3 dragons. She lost the strongest claim to the throne.

I have to think all this loss isn't foreshadowing and that it's setting us up to expect failure, or she's about to go mad. Either way, I'm totally expecting someone other than the 3 main power players left to sit on the throne.

Arya is not a lady!!!

[Tbonewannabe]

She turned and ran when the battle got tough.

She's lost the north. She's lost the wildlings. She's lost most of her army. She's lost 2 of her 3 dragons. She lost the strongest claim to the throne.

I have to think all this loss isn't foreshadowing and that it's setting us up to expect failure, or she's about to go mad. Either way, I'm totally expecting someone other than the 3 main power players left to sit on the throne.

Arya is not a lady!!!

Sansa whereas Littlefinger did all of the hard work. He trained her but he was behind everything to begin with.

[TrapGame]

I got a friend that is adamant the Arryn boy winds up on the throne. Everyone else dies.

I told him he's full of shit. Dany put Gendry on the Iron Throne by legitimizing him as a Baratheon and Lord of Storms End.

[War Machine Dawg]

I got a friend that is adamant the Arryn boy winds up on the throne. Everyone else dies.

I told him he's full of shit. Dany put Gendry on the Iron Throne by legitimizing him as a Baratheon and Lord of Storms End.

No, it's going to be Tyrion and Sansa as co-rulers. Book it. Gendry & Arya are going to marry and rule in Winterfell. Arya's going to realize she doesn't have to be a classic, stereotypical "lady" to be a Lady. The Hound is going to be mortally wounded fighting The Mountain and Arya is going to give her buddy the Gift of Mercy. Full circle moment from season 3 (I think) when he asks for it and she leaves him to die. Then she kills The Mountain. Only question I have on that is whether or not she loses a hand doing it.

I'm still 100% sure Dany is going to die in childbirth. The only question I have is whether or not Jon swaps his life for hers. If he does, I think she abdicates the throne to go raise her child in peace somewhere, honoring Jon's sacrifice. That's why I think it'll be Tyrion and Sansa. They hinted at it during a couple of crypt scenes in Ep. 3. And I've decided none of the dragons are going to survive. Of course, it they go the Mad Queen route, all bets are off.

Sam lives and is made Grand Maester in Old Town. He's going to reform the Order so women can be Maesters too and Gilly becomes the first female maester.

After that, I'm not sure. I think Jaime and Brienne wind up together, but I'm not sure of Jaime's ultimate fate. Hand to Tyrion & Sansa? Lord of Casterly Rock & Warden of the West? Head of the King & Queen's Guard? I could see several different endings for him. Davos...I hope he lives, but I'm thinking he dies. But he'd be a badass Hand if he lives. Grey Worm is going to die, I think. Pod - I hope he lives, but I could see it going either way. Yara - I think she dies trying to kill Euron. Sure I'm still missing a couple of characters, but that's what I've got for now. (I'm assuming every key member of the Cersei faction dies - Euron, Pycell, Cersei, etc.)

[TrapGame]

No, it's going to be Tyrion and Sansa as co-rulers. Book it. Gendry & Arya are going to marry and rule in Winterfell. Arya's going to realize she doesn't have to be a classic, stereotypical "lady" to be a Lady. The Hound is going to be mortally wounded fighting The Mountain and Arya is going to give her buddy the Gift of Mercy. Full circle moment from season 3 (I think) when he asks for it and she leaves him to die. Then she kills The Mountain. Only question I have on that is whether or not she loses a hand doing it.

I'm still 100% sure Dany is going to die in childbirth. The only question I have is whether or not Jon swaps his life for hers. If he does, I think she abdicates the throne to go raise her child in peace somewhere, honoring Jon's sacrifice. That's why I think it'll be Tyrion and Sansa. They hinted at it during a couple of crypt scenes in Ep. 3. And I've decided none of the dragons are going to survive. Of course, it they go the Mad Queen route, all bets are off.

Sam lives and is made Grand Maester in Old Town. He's going to reform the Order so women can be Maesters too and Gilly becomes the first female maester.

After that, I'm not sure. I think Jaime and Brienne wind up together, but I'm not sure of Jaime's ultimate fate. Hand to Tyrion & Sansa? Lord of Casterly Rock & Warden of the West? Head of the King & Queen's Guard? I could see several different endings for him. Davos...I hope he lives, but I'm thinking he dies. But he'd be a badass Hand if he lives. Grey Worm is going to die, I think. Pod - I hope he lives, but I could see it going either way. Yara - I think she dies trying to kill Euron. Sure I'm still missing a couple of characters, but that's what I've got for now. (I'm assuming every key member of the Cersei faction dies - Euron, Pycell, Cersei, etc.)

Jamie kills Cersei b/c it fits perfectly with her prophecy. But I think Jamie dies in the process.

I think Yara comes after Euron. Either she kills him or Jamie does.

I think Dany incinerates King's Landing and this gets her the Mad Queen title. Ep 6 is the reconciliation of that act w/ Jon having to kill Dany b/c she wants to kill everyone that opposes her now.

Winterfell becomes the seat of power for the 7 kingdoms and Sansa is the queen.

[Political Hack]

I think they should form a counsel after the mad queen dies. Democracy is born as dragons and the dead disappear.

[msstate7]

I think they should form a counsel after the mad queen dies. Democracy is born as dragons and the dead disappear.

I agree, and trump should head the council (I kid, i kid)

[Political Hack]

I agree, and trump should head the council (I kid, i kid)

Obama for the Iron Throne! Lol.

I do think they're going to kill all the boogie men creatures and dragons and everything else to where only man survives. No three eyed raven. No dragons. No walking dead. That's how they become "only stories."

[TrapGame]

If the leaks on Redditt are true there are gonna some very pissed off people.

[War Machine Dawg]

If the leaks on Redditt are true there are gonna some very pissed off people.

If there are some really pissed off people, I don't know what to say. GRRM and the producers have been very consistent in saying the ending will be "bittersweet." It won't be an ending everyone "likes" but I do think it'll make sense in the context of the larger story being told. But as I said, it seems the show has taken a very different route than the one GRRM has/had planned for the books. I really think they're going to be pretty different after all.

[Political Hack]

They have to do something to shock viewers. Having Jon reign would be too easy and predictable. Samwell for the Iron throne!!

[TrapGame]

If there are some really pissed off people, I don't know what to say. GRRM and the producers have been very consistent in saying the ending will be "bittersweet." It won't be an ending everyone "likes" but I do think it'll make sense in the context of the larger story being told. But as I said, it seems the show has taken a very different route than the one GRRM has/had planned for the books. I really think they're going to be pretty different after all.

Not bittersweet. A let down that you've spent 8 yrs following this show and that's the best ending they can come up with.

[Tbonewannabe]

Not bittersweet. A let down that you've spent 8 yrs following this show and that's the best ending they can come up with.

If Jon has to kill Dany then it will probably be bittersweet. If Jon is basically forced to rule then it kind of follows with "heavy is the head that wears the crown". He would be happier doing something else but does it out of obligation. Dany wants the throne because she thinks it is her destiny, Cersei wants it for the power, Sansa would want it also for the power but would be a better ruler than Cersei, and no one else is really up for it. Anyone outside of those 4 really is a curve ball.

[Political Hack]

If Jon has to kill Dany then it will probably be bittersweet. If Jon is basically forced to rule then it kind of follows with "heavy is the head that wears the crown". He would be happier doing something else but does it out of obligation. Dany wants the throne because she thinks it is her destiny, Cersei wants it for the power, Sansa would want it also for the power but would be a better ruler than Cersei, and no one else is really up for it. Anyone outside of those 4 really is a curve ball.

Totally expect a curveball but I think I'll only be satisfied with Jon out of those 4.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D52tK9TXkAA-l4x.jpg:large

The only thing I care about.

[TrapGame]

So the big rumor is one of the dragons laid eggs in Old Valaryia - the scene where Tyrion and Jorah are sailing by the ruins and see a dragon fly by - two seasons ago and we get to see them attack Euron's fleet.

[Tbonewannabe]

So the big rumor is one of the dragons laid eggs in Old Valaryia - the scene where Tyrion and Jorah are sailing by the ruins and see a dragon fly by - two seasons ago and we get to see them attack Euron's fleet.

That would definitely be a curve ball.

[Political Hack]

A flock of Dragons would probably seal it. Jon is gonna get eaten.

[TrapGame]

I think the Reddit leaks are bullshit. Watched a Youtube video that matched the recent leaks and there are several inconsistencies. One says Tyrion dies another by the same poster says Tyrion is on the small council for Bran who is named king. Not one leak mentions multiple dragons..yet that is the big rumor now with the actor who portrays Euron going right along with it posting some cryptic tweets.

It's all a ruse.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think the Reddit leaks are bullshit. Watched a Youtube video that matched the recent leaks and there are several inconsistencies. One says Tyrion dies another by the same poster says Tyrion is on the small council for Bran who is named king. Not one leak mentions multiple dragons..yet that is the big rumor now with the actor who portrays Euron going right along with it posting some cryptic tweets.

It's all a ruse.

That would be a problem for me. Bran would be the last guy who or would want to be named king. That would just kind of go against the character.

I think that Dany gets the throne and starts burning people like Varys and/or Tyrion for talking about putting Jon on the throne. Then she wants to kill Sansa for not bending the knee and Jon steps in and kills her. Jon either takes the throne out of duty or just goes North and Sansa ends up on the throne.

[Political Hack]

Ok, Mad Queen angle...

I thought Arya was going to kill Cersi, but she's going to kill the Dragon Queen. Knight King and Dragon Queen I'm back to back wars would be pretty strong.

[Tbonewannabe]

I am definitely let down by this episode. I understand the angle but overall about 20 minutes of plot happened and what did was weak. They have one more episode to end the story strong instead of with a whimper.

[msstatelp1]

Ok, Mad Queen angle...

I thought Arya was going to kill Cersi, but she's going to kill the Dragon Queen. Knight King and Dragon Queen I'm back to back wars would be pretty strong.

Arya does a Hunger Games on Dany.

[mparkerfd20]

Worst episode of 8 seasons. They just blew it all to hell. Terrible writing... very rushed. You can tell this isn't GRRM's story anymore.

[Tbonewannabe]

Worst episode of 8 seasons. They just blew it all to hell. Terrible writing... very rushed. You can tell this isn't GRRM's story anymore.

I agree. I told my wife last night that if GRRM EVER finishes the books then he very well might change a lot of things including who ends up on the Iron Throne.

[TrapGame]

Absolute shit episode.

Jon Snow has become a fool. He still knows nothing.

Cersei got off waaaay too easy. Completely ****ed Jaime's character.

Clegane Bowl was meh.

Arya Stark changed her life goals from a piss poor motivational speech. (This whole arc should have taken three episodes as the two ride to King's Landing)

The two Davids can't write for shit without GRRM looking over their shoulders and guiding them.

Six episodes? They rushed enough shit in the plot it should damn well be at least ten!

[TrapGame]

And don't get me started on what a waste the Golden Company turned out to be.

So, what you're telling me David and David is if Dany had attacked King's Landing in season 7 with all three of her dragons this shit would have been over before the Dothraki or Unsullied could have made it through the gate.

Drogon > The Iron Fleet, 20 scorpions, The Golden Company, The Lannister Army and the city of King's Landing

[Tbonewannabe]

And don't get me started on what a waste the Golden Company turned out to be.

So, what you're telling me David and David is if Dany had attacked King's Landing in season 7 with all three of her dragons this shit would have been over before the Dothraki or Unsullied could have made it through the gate.

Drogon > The Iron Fleet, 20 scorpions, The Golden Company, The Lannister Army and the city of King's Landing

Drogon took out the Iron Fleet and Euron fired 1 scorpion. What is the difference from this week compared to last week when they were filling the sky up with scorpion bolts?

One thing in the after the episode, one of the David's mentioned that Dany basically had zero sympathy for her brother getting melted in front of her so she has had an ability to give zero 17s. Her melting women and children has been inside her all along and maybe being the close to the Iron Throne drove her further towards madness.

It definitely feels rushed and maybe this will be the incentive for GRRM to finish his books since the ending is getting massacred. He might even find a different ending compared to the shows.

[TrapGame]

Drogon took out the Iron Fleet and Euron fired 1 scorpion. What is the difference from this week compared to last week when they were filling the sky up with scorpion bolts?

One thing in the after the episode, one of the David's mentioned that Dany basically had zero sympathy for her brother getting melted in front of her so she has had an ability to give zero 17s. Her melting women and children has been inside her all along and maybe being the close to the Iron Throne drove her further towards madness.

It definitely feels rushed and maybe this will be the incentive for GRRM to finish his books since the ending is getting massacred. He might even find a different ending compared to the shows.

My theory now is GRRM is waiting on the Davids to get finished ****ing things up so he can correct it in the books.

I didn't watch the after show b/c I was so disgusted. But that sounds like a Russo Brother's after the fact explanation.

And a real Mad Queen would kill Jon Snow. He is the true heir and anything short of his death leaves him the possibility of usurping her throne.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

The best part of this season, the memes.

https://preview.redd.it/ww4y4d1u40y21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&ef7ce30f

[Tbonewannabe]

My theory now is GRRM is waiting on the Davids to get finished ****ing things up so he can correct it in the books.

I didn't watch the after show b/c I was so disgusted. But that sounds like a Russo Brother's after the fact explanation.

And a real Mad Queen would kill Jon Snow. He is the true heir and anything short of his death leaves him the possibility of usurping her throne.

I think Dany tries to kill Jon or Sansa and that is what sets Jon off. Arya might snipe her but I just don't know how I would feel about her killing the Night King and Dany.

[Political Hack]

I think Dany is going to kill Tyrion and/or Sansa and Jon will break free after that. Arya will kill Dany IMO. Jon will fight the unsullied.

I keep waiting for Bron to take over the dragon. Seems like they would've worked that in by now.

Jon will accept the Iron throne with a heavy heart. Only he and Arya survive.

[msstate7]

Is there a time length for the finale yet? Really hope it pushes 2 hours

[TrapGame]

Is there a time length for the finale yet? Really hope it pushes 2 hours

I guess when you do the math we are getting 10 one hour long episodes. But still it seems so rushed. These character arcs were formed over years and then knee capped for the sake of wrapping things up.

[TrapGame]

I think Dany is going to kill Tyrion and/or Sansa and Jon will break free after that. Arya will kill Dany IMO. Jon will fight the unsullied.

I keep waiting for Bron to take over the dragon. Seems like they would've worked that in by now.

Jon will accept the Iron throne with a heavy heart. Only he and Arya survive.

The North holds all the power now with the destruction of King's Landing. Sansa will be the Queen ruling from the North. Dany kills Tyrion for releasing Jaime although he and Cersei are dead. Dany gets killed when she moves against Sansa. Jon goes Beyond the Wall to live alone.

[Tbonewannabe]

Is there a time length for the finale yet? Really hope it pushes 2 hours

I believe it is about the same around 1 hr 20 minutes.

I think you are right about Tyrion. She already told him another mistake would be his last. It makes me think that either they find Jamie with Cersei and she then asks how he got away.

I think Dany is just broken now. You also have to think that the Unsullied and the Kalsar are cutthroats anyway. They have no problem with burning women and children even if they surrendered.

[TrapGame]

OK, there's a guy on YouTube that has a theory that GRRM is letting the two Davids flame out the series while he comes in with a completely different take on the ending in his next two books.

And he goes conspiracy theory: GRRM has finished both books ALREADY! He's waiting to throw some shade and push his books as THE true ending. Pushing sales through the roof.

[Tbonewannabe]

OK, there's a guy on YouTube that has a theory that GRRM is letting the two Davids flame out the series while he comes in with a completely different take on the ending in his next two books.

And he goes conspiracy theory: GRRM has finished both books ALREADY! He's waiting to throw some shade and push his books as THE true ending. Pushing sales through the roof.

It was actually the actor who played Ser Barristan Selmy who was killed off the show a couple of seasons ago. He said it at a Con. He said that D&D had a deal with GRRM to not release the books until the show was over so it didn't affect their ending. He said that book 6&7 are done and that is the end of the Song of Ice and Fire.

[TrapGame]

It was actually the actor who played Ser Barristan Selmy who was killed off the show a couple of seasons ago. He said it at a Con. He said that D&D had a deal with GRRM to not release the books until the show was over so it didn't affect their ending. He said that book 6&7 are done and that is the end of the Song of Ice and Fire.

No, it was a Youtuber who probably saw that vid and tried to sound relevant.

On a side note, I'm interested about the Wheel of Time series coming to Amazon Prime next year. That's a very GoT setting with tons of character development.

[Tbonewannabe]

No, it was a Youtuber who probably saw that vid and tried to sound relevant.

On a side note, I'm interested about the Wheel of Time series coming to Amazon Prime next year. That's a very GoT setting with tons of character development.

GRRM came out today and emphatically denied that he was finished with Book 6. He said he wasn't holding the book due to the show and that was crazy since his publisher wants the book as soon as possible.

As far as the Wheel of Time series, it is probably my favorite series along with the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Both are being adapted into long series by Amazon.

The Dark Tower is actually going in chronological order so Roland Deschain (The Gunslinger) is actually a kid in the first season. I didn't think it could be adapted straight into a movie since so much happens which the movie just jammed in along with leaving things out.

Starting with him as a kid will be a lot easier for non book readers to follow.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I think Dany is going to kill Tyrion and/or Sansa and Jon will break free after that. Arya will kill Dany IMO. Jon will fight the unsullied.

I keep waiting for Bron to take over the dragon. Seems like they would've worked that in by now.

Jon will accept the Iron throne with a heavy heart. Only he and Arya survive.

Bran warging into a dragon sets up my best-case scenario. I seem to be among the minority of people who was really jazzed about Bran's magical vision quest only to be kicked to the curb. All knowing dude who can take control of any living creature? Awesome! What does he do in the show after gaining these unparalleled abilities? A lot of blank staring. Huzzah! (I also think that Bran's entire training period with the three-eyed raven and the surviving children of the forest was botched all to hell. But that's beside the point.)

Anywho, if Bran takes over a dragon, he neuters Dany and allows for a quick resolution to what would otherwise be a massive problem -- the (magically still-alive post-Winterfell) Unsullied and Dothraki. He wargs into the dragon at some appropriately dramatic turning point in the show when Dany's about to obliterate everyone, he demolishes her remaining army, and then somehow kills the dragon at the end. Dany can die either during or after all this, either via Jon, Arya, Tyrion, or Bran-the-dragon-man. After it's all done, Jon can sulk up north with his wolf, Sansa, Tyrion, and/or some combination of leaders who are still alive can rule the 7 Kingdoms, and Arya can kick it with the Baratheon kid.

And of course none of that is going to happen. Rah.

[Tbonewannabe]

Bran warging into a dragon sets up my best-case scenario. I seem to be among the minority of people who was really jazzed about Bran's magical vision quest only to be kicked to the curb. All knowing dude who can take control of any living creature? Awesome! What does he do in the show after gaining these unparalleled abilities? A lot of blank staring. Huzzah! (I also think that Bran's entire training period with the three-eyed raven and the surviving children of the forest was botched all to hell. But that's beside the point.)

Anywho, if Bran takes over a dragon, he neuters Dany and allows for a quick resolution to what would otherwise be a massive problem -- the (magically still-alive post-Winterfell) Unsullied and Dothraki. He wargs into the dragon at some appropriately dramatic turning point in the show when Dany's about to obliterate everyone, he demolishes her remaining army, and then somehow kills the dragon at the end. Dany can die either during or after all this, either via Jon, Arya, Tyrion, or Bran-the-dragon-man. After it's all done, Jon can sulk up north with his wolf, Sansa, Tyrion, and/or some combination of leaders who are still alive can rule the 7 Kingdoms, and Arya can kick it with the Baratheon kid.

And of course none of that is going to happen. Rah.

This would probably be better than what will happen.

[Dawgology]

It will end with Dany on the throne and all of us realizing we were pulling for the real bad guy the entire time. Welcome to Game of Thrones.

[Tbonewannabe]

It will end with Dany on the throne and all of us realizing we were pulling for the real bad guy the entire time. Welcome to Game of Thrones.

I am just hoping GRRM actually finishes the series and whatever D&D screw up, he corrects in the books.

[TrapGame]

I'm bracing myself to be thoroughly disappointed Sunday night.

There's bittersweet and then there's bullshit.

[War Machine Dawg]

I'm bracing myself to be thoroughly disappointed Sunday night.

There's bittersweet and then there's bullshit.

+1

Every theory I had has gone out the window with this out of nowhere Mad Queen heel turn. I think most of what I had in mind will be a book ending, assuming the fat old bastard ever finishes.

[TrapGame]

Watched a behind the scenes of episode 3. It seems when they had the script reading and they get to the part where Arya kills the NK there was collective "You gotta be shitting me." around the room. Kit H. was like "I really thought it was going to be an epic fight between Jon Snow and the NK." Amelia Clarke said "We all thought Jon would kill the NK."

Even the actors reading the effing script knew it was shit from day one. Conleth Hill (Varys) is publicly saying his character got shit on. Peter Dinklege has been throwing shade for a month. Amelia Clarke has been immortalized with her red carpet sarcasm "Greatest season ever!".

[Tbonewannabe]

Watched a behind the scenes of episode 3. It seems when they had the script reading and they get to the part where Arya kills the NK there was collective "You gotta be shitting me." around the room. Kit H. was like "I really thought it was going to be an epic fight between Jon Snow and the NK." Amelia Clarke said "We all thought Jon would kill the NK."

Even the actors reading the effing script knew it was shit from day one. Conleth Hill (Varys) is publicly saying his character got shit on. Peter Dinklege has been throwing shade for a month. Amelia Clarke has been immortalized with her red carpet sarcasm "Greatest season ever!".

Yep, they are limping to the finish line. Varys was told he would die by the Red priestess and you would think there would be some type of meaning the way it was foreshadowed. He might as well have died from dysentery.

The white walker battle was cool but it would have been better if Jon had actually gotten to fight the NK and then the NK raises the dead because Jon might take him out. It has just been a lot of missed chances that people on the internet have written better plot points. You could probably take the threads on this message board and wrote a better season 8.

There was hints of Dany going Mad Queen but she has never just disregarded women and children. Any time she has been cruel, it is because the weaker have been treated wrongly and didn't have anyone to take care of them. It would have made more sense if she went and burned the Red Keep and it accidentally ignited the wildfire. Her flying around burning women and children just didn't make any sense except they needed a reason that Jon or Arya would kill her.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Yep, they are limping to the finish line. Varys was told he would die by the Red priestess and you would think there would be some type of meaning the way it was foreshadowed. He might as well have died from dysentery.

The white walker battle was cool but it would have been better if Jon had actually gotten to fight the NK and then the NK raises the dead because Jon might take him out. It has just been a lot of missed chances that people on the internet have written better plot points. You could probably take the threads on this message board and wrote a better season 8.

There was hints of Dany going Mad Queen but she has never just disregarded women and children. Any time she has been cruel, it is because the weaker have been treated wrongly and didn't have anyone to take care of them. It would have made more sense if she went and burned the Red Keep and it accidentally ignited the wildfire. Her flying around burning women and children just didn't make any sense except they needed a reason that Jon or Arya would kill her.

There are plenty of plot points over the past two or three seasons that have gone nowhere, been sloppily resolved, don't make sense, and are, well, dumb. But I actually have no problem with Arya killing the Night King. I've dug her character arc better than many others and for whatever reason her eventual role in the battle jived with my understanding of her journey in the show. Don't know how that event comports with the sprawling stage that the first five books were setting. But I'm cool with it in the context of the show. And compared to many of the other endings we're getting for plot lines and characters recently, it was a cinematic masterwork.

A semi-related digression:

When my wife and I were talking about the last episode and the way they fumbled Dany's turn to the dark side, I wondered aloud about the rarity of well-resolved, quality television shows. Game of Thrones has a very unique problem that most other shows, let alone shows of its caliber, don't have -- it's based upon an unfinished set of books whose intricate plot and voluminous cast of characters have, at least according to what little I've read about the topic, become unwieldy even for the author. But even without any of those issues to deal with, I think it's more the exception than the norm for a show of this quality to end in a way that is universally satisfactory.

I may be speaking for myself here, but I can't think of many shows of this caliber that were good throughout their entire run and that had awesome resolutions. Mad Men was stellar throughout most of its run and the last few episodes were probably appropriate enough, but I wasn't blown away like I was often earlier in the series. (And I didn't get much out of some of the side characters' stories, like, say, Betty's, in the final season or so.) The Wire ended well enough, I guess, but I felt that the last season was the weakest. Seinfeld ended with a wimper (and had been declining some anyway). The Simpsons was once pure genius week after week, but that ended long, long ago. The Sopranos lost me toward the end, too, and that doesn't even account for people's mixed feelings about the last episode. I dug MASH and the West Wing, but both faltered in their own ways down the stretch. The Walking Dead, Arrested Development, Twin Peaks, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, the list goes on. In fact, the only one I could think of while my wife and I were talking that was both great throughout and that had a personally satisfying ending was Breaking Bad. I thought that finale was just about perfect, all things considered, and that the show maintained its quality throughout the whole series. But even then, my wife disliked that show entirely, so the example didn't work for her.

I guess what I'm getting at is, it's really rare for a TV show to be really, really good throughout it's run. And it's even rarer when one of those shows ends in a way that's satisfying to all or most of its fans. It's just hard to do. (To digress even further, ditto for music. How many musicians have produced universally acclaimed albums consistently throughout an extended career up to and including their end? Not many that I can think of.)

All that said, the rarity of it doesn't make it any less annoying when it happens to a show that you like. It's a damn shame that they've gradually botched the last third of this series.

Come on, warg it up, Bran! Everything else may go to hell, but you still have time to fly your freak flag, buddy!

[Political Hack]

I dont get the hate for Arya killing the NK. She saw her father murdered in season 1 and has been training to be an assassin since. She's a killer. Far more dangerous than Jon.

I think they have a spin-off coming north of the wall so I don't expect Jon to go there. Maybe he returns to the Knights Watch with Samwell after having to kill Dany. The move the iron throne (the actual chairs) to the only remaining castle in Westeros and Sansa takes the helm with Bran and Arya by her side.

[Tbonewannabe]

There are plenty of plot points over the past two or three seasons that have gone nowhere, been sloppily resolved, don't make sense, and are, well, dumb. But I actually have no problem with Arya killing the Night King. I've dug her character arc better than many others and for whatever reason her eventual role in the battle jived with my understanding of her journey in the show. Don't know how that event comports with the sprawling stage that the first five books were setting. But I'm cool with it in the context of the show. And compared to many of the other endings we're getting for plot lines and characters recently, it was a cinematic masterwork.

A semi-related digression:

When my wife and I were talking about the last episode and the way they fumbled Dany's turn to the dark side, I wondered aloud about the rarity of well-resolved, quality television shows. Game of Thrones has a very unique problem that most other shows, let alone shows of its caliber, don't have -- it's based upon an unfinished set of books whose intricate plot and voluminous cast of characters have, at least according to what little I've read about the topic, become unwieldy even for the author. But even without any of those issues to deal with, I think it's more the exception than the norm for a show of this quality to end in a way that is universally satisfactory.

I may be speaking for myself here, but I can't think of many shows of this caliber that were good throughout their entire run and that had awesome resolutions. Mad Men was stellar throughout most of its run and the last few episodes were probably appropriate enough, but I wasn't blown away like I was often earlier in the series. (And I didn't get much out of some of the side characters' stories, like, say, Betty's, in the final season or so.) The Wire ended well enough, I guess, but I felt that the last season was the weakest. Seinfeld ended with a wimper (and had been declining some anyway). The Simpsons was once pure genius week after week, but that ended long, long ago. The Sopranos lost me toward the end, too, and that doesn't even account for people's mixed feelings about the last episode. I dug MASH and the West Wing, but both faltered in their own ways down the stretch. The Walking Dead, Arrested Development, Twin Peaks, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, the list goes on. In fact, the only one I could think of while my wife and I were talking that was both great throughout and that had a personally satisfying ending was Breaking Bad. I thought that finale was just about perfect, all things considered, and that the show maintained its quality throughout the whole series. But even then, my wife disliked that show entirely, so the example didn't work for her.

I guess what I'm getting at is, it's really rare for a TV show to be really, really good throughout it's run. And it's even rarer when one of those shows ends in a way that's satisfying to all or most of its fans. It's just hard to do. (To digress even further, ditto for music. How many musicians have produced universally acclaimed albums consistently throughout an extended career up to and including their end? Not many that I can think of.)

All that said, the rarity of it doesn't make it any less annoying when it happens to a show that you like. It's a damn shame that they've gradually botched the last third of this series.

Come on, warg it up, Bran! Everything else may go to hell, but you still have time to fly your freak flag, buddy!

Sorry, I didn't mean that I didn't like that Arya killed the NK. I just hated that essentially there wasn't an actual fight. I thought they missed a chance to have a really good sword battle between him and Jon. He then could have raised the dead as a way to distract Jon and try and kill Bran. Then Arya does her thing as a badass assassin. My favorite part of that episode was Mormont taking out the giant and Arya killing the NK. The dragon fight in the air was cool also but they missed a lot of great scenes that could have been shot.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Sorry, I didn't mean that I didn't like that Arya killed the NK. I just hated that essentially there wasn't an actual fight. I thought they missed a chance to have a really good sword battle between him and Jon. He then could have raised the dead as a way to distract Jon and try and kill Bran. Then Arya does her thing as a badass assassin. My favorite part of that episode was Mormont taking out the giant and Arya killing the NK. The dragon fight in the air was cool also but they missed a lot of great scenes that could have been shot.

Woops. My bad. Yeah, that's a good point. A sword fight where a resilient Jon just keeps on coming would've been cool and wouldn't have jacked up the rest of the way they chose to tell the story.

"Missed opportunity" is spot on. If there's a single summation for the show's last two or three seasons, that's it.

[War Machine Dawg]

There are plenty of plot points over the past two or three seasons that have gone nowhere, been sloppily resolved, don't make sense, and are, well, dumb. But I actually have no problem with Arya killing the Night King. I've dug her character arc better than many others and for whatever reason her eventual role in the battle jived with my understanding of her journey in the show. Don't know how that event comports with the sprawling stage that the first five books were setting. But I'm cool with it in the context of the show. And compared to many of the other endings we're getting for plot lines and characters recently, it was a cinematic masterwork.

A semi-related digression:

When my wife and I were talking about the last episode and the way they fumbled Dany's turn to the dark side, I wondered aloud about the rarity of well-resolved, quality television shows. Game of Thrones has a very unique problem that most other shows, let alone shows of its caliber, don't have -- it's based upon an unfinished set of books whose intricate plot and voluminous cast of characters have, at least according to what little I've read about the topic, become unwieldy even for the author. But even without any of those issues to deal with, I think it's more the exception than the norm for a show of this quality to end in a way that is universally satisfactory.

I may be speaking for myself here, but I can't think of many shows of this caliber that were good throughout their entire run and that had awesome resolutions. Mad Men was stellar throughout most of its run and the last few episodes were probably appropriate enough, but I wasn't blown away like I was often earlier in the series. (And I didn't get much out of some of the side characters' stories, like, say, Betty's, in the final season or so.) The Wire ended well enough, I guess, but I felt that the last season was the weakest. Seinfeld ended with a wimper (and had been declining some anyway). The Simpsons was once pure genius week after week, but that ended long, long ago. The Sopranos lost me toward the end, too, and that doesn't even account for people's mixed feelings about the last episode. I dug MASH and the West Wing, but both faltered in their own ways down the stretch. The Walking Dead, Arrested Development, Twin Peaks, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, the list goes on. In fact, the only one I could think of while my wife and I were talking that was both great throughout and that had a personally satisfying ending was Breaking Bad. I thought that finale was just about perfect, all things considered, and that the show maintained its quality throughout the whole series. But even then, my wife disliked that show entirely, so the example didn't work for her.

I guess what I'm getting at is, it's really rare for a TV show to be really, really good throughout it's run. And it's even rarer when one of those shows ends in a way that's satisfying to all or most of its fans. It's just hard to do. (To digress even further, ditto for music. How many musicians have produced universally acclaimed albums consistently throughout an extended career up to and including their end? Not many that I can think of.)

All that said, the rarity of it doesn't make it any less annoying when it happens to a show that you like. It's a damn shame that they've gradually botched the last third of this series.

Come on, warg it up, Bran! Everything else may go to hell, but you still have time to fly your freak flag, buddy!

I think The Shield deserves a mention along with Breaking Bad. Fantastic throughout and an epic resolution at the end. But to further your point, I think Sons of Anarchy had the same thing happen as most of the others on your list. Great up until the last episode, then they completely threw all this curveball imagery in that they hadn't laid any foundation for during the show's run.

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't really have a big problem with Arya killing NK in the show. They've pretty clearly gone away from all the prophecies and such that GRRM laid down in the books, making the show its own entity with its own story. Like some of you have said, though, not having Jon & NK at least face off one-on-one was a big mistake.

I think my problem with Dany's heel turn is that it was so sudden. And in some ways, I don't feel like it's a true heel turn. At least, I'm hoping it isn't. I think it was just her boiling over from all the emotions and circumstances she's had to deal with, especially since landing in Westeros. She's angry and heartbroken from the death of Missandei. Heartbroken at the death of Jorah. Angry & heartbroken over the deaths of 2 of her "children," the dragons. Conflicted about Jon being the true heir to the Iron Throne. Frustrated that Jon, despite what he says, is unable to return her feelings in a physical way. I don't think she ever intended to attack the civilian population of the city the way she did, but in that moment, she needed to release all the emotions churning inside her. And in doing that, she went too far. I'm still hoping she'll show some remorse about what she did and try to make amends.

But like I said above, I'm fully prepared to be disappointed Sunday night. D&D seem lost with how to resolve this without GRRM to guide them.

[TrapGame]

Woops. My bad. Yeah, that's a good point. A sword fight where a resilient Jon just keeps on coming would've been cool and wouldn't have jacked up the rest of the way they chose to tell the story.

"Missed opportunity" is spot on. If there's a single summation for the show's last two or three seasons, that's it.

Arya killing the NK doesn't bother me either but Jon Snow at least taking out a couple of white walkers b/c the NK doesn't want to face him or gets a taste of his battle prowess and decides his homies need to step in.

But no they just stand there while a 5'3" girl rushes passed them like Sonic the Hedgehog to shank their boss.

There has been a pretty interesting question making the internet. Why did the Lord of Light bring Jon back? If it wasn't to kill the NK but Dany instead that really doesn't compute. Not the way D&D are telling the story.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I think The Shield deserves a mention along with Breaking Bad. Fantastic throughout and an epic resolution at the end. But to further your point, I think Sons of Anarchy had the same thing happen as most of the others on your list. Great up until the last episode, then they completely threw all this curveball imagery in that they hadn't laid any foundation for during the show's run.

Man, I haven't thought about The Shield in a while. I dug the first season or two, but for whatever reason I didn't keep watching. (Just checked the timeline. That show ran from 2002 to 2008. That's why. I graduated undergrad in 2003 and spent the next five years in grad school, where I lost touch with pretty much every television show there was.) I'll have to go back and check it out sometime.


I don't really have a big problem with Arya killing NK in the show. They've pretty clearly gone away from all the prophecies and such that GRRM laid down in the books, making the show its own entity with its own story. Like some of you have said, though, not having Jon & NK at least face off one-on-one was a big mistake.

I think my problem with Dany's heel turn is that it was so sudden. And in some ways, I don't feel like it's a true heel turn. At least, I'm hoping it isn't. I think it was just her boiling over from all the emotions and circumstances she's had to deal with, especially since landing in Westeros. She's angry and heartbroken from the death of Missandei. Heartbroken at the death of Jorah. Angry & heartbroken over the deaths of 2 of her "children," the dragons. Conflicted about Jon being the true heir to the Iron Throne. Frustrated that Jon, despite what he says, is unable to return her feelings in a physical way. I don't think she ever intended to attack the civilian population of the city the way she did, but in that moment, she needed to release all the emotions churning inside her. And in doing that, she went too far. I'm still hoping she'll show some remorse about what she did and try to make amends.

But like I said above, I'm fully prepared to be disappointed Sunday night. D&D seem lost with how to resolve this without GRRM to guide them.

You know, it hadn't even occurred to me that Dany's surely going to come through the other side of her psychotic break as an emotional train wreck. That makes total sense. I bet a big chunk of the episode is going to have to involve Dany's (and Jon's and Tyrion's, since they are the ones left from Westeros who loved or believed in her) struggle with coming to terms with what happened and how to move forward.

And right after they figure it all out, Bran the Dragon ends it for them! Hey oh!

That, or a giant Monty Python foot squishes them all, leading straight to the closing credits. That could work at this point, no?

[SapperDawg]

Well that went out with a whimper.

[TrapGame]

Thoroughly disappointed as I suspected. This series deserved so much better. D&D are now off to ruin the Old Republic era of Star Wars. Such great characters ruined by half ass writing.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Thoroughly disappointed as I suspected. This series deserved so much better. D&D are now off to ruin the Old Republic era of Star Wars. Such great characters ruined by half ass writing.

They've been wanting to get this one over with ever since they got the Star Wars gig, HBO should have brought in other writers to finish the series up.

[Tbonewannabe]

I basically knew what happened before I watched it. With that said, I didn't hate it as much as when I read the spoiler. My biggest issue was how they changed the characters. Dany not even blinking an eye at burning women and children. They made her go from slightly mad to full blown crazy in one instant. There just wasn't enough time to change her character that much. It felt like it didn't fit and GRRM probably has a way to ramp up to it in the books without it feeling like they just changed the character.

Bran is the same issue for me. He was basically a super autistic kid because he was overwhelmed with knowledge. He would randomly talk to people. He seemed better this episode so at least they didn't make robot Bran the king but it still feels like we missed something.

At the end of the day if you told me it ended like this 2 or 3 seasons ago I would be interested to see how they got there. The problem is that they didn't really show you.

Bran is king because he is kind and has all this knowledge to pull from and he can't have children so it breaks the cycle. I am fine with that.

Arya goes off exploring. It makes sense for her character because she never wanted to be just a lady in a castle. I didn't know if the faceless men would come back into play but I guess it was purely for their training.

Sansa becomes Queen of the North and they are once again free from southern rule. Sansa has been working towards this the entire series and the North is once again free.

Jon has to kill Dany so he is heartbroken anyway. He wanted to go back north if he could and now he actually gets to live in peace with the free folk and GHOST. I personally thought he would be on the Iron Throne but not be happy about it. This is actually a happier ending than I thought he would get. I am ok with this.

Bron is master of coin and Lord of High Garden. Loved how the small council ended up being formed.

Brienne is captain of the Kingsguard with Pod as a knight. I liked how she finished Jamie's story. My wife thought she would be pregnant and write something about his kid but instead we got "he died protecting his queen". I am ok with that.

So looking at it that way, I am not as pissed about it. It seems they wrapped up most loose ends but they had to stretch to get there which went against all the character building the show did.

[War Machine Dawg]

I basically knew what happened before I watched it. With that said, I didn't hate it as much as when I read the spoiler. My biggest issue was how they changed the characters. Dany not even blinking an eye at burning women and children. They made her go from slightly mad to full blown crazy in one instant. There just wasn't enough time to change her character that much. It felt like it didn't fit and GRRM probably has a way to ramp up to it in the books without it feeling like they just changed the character.

Bran is the same issue for me. He was basically a super autistic kid because he was overwhelmed with knowledge. He would randomly talk to people. He seemed better this episode so at least they didn't make robot Bran the king but it still feels like we missed something.

At the end of the day if you told me it ended like this 2 or 3 seasons ago I would be interested to see how they got there. The problem is that they didn't really show you.

Bran is king because he is kind and has all this knowledge to pull from and he can't have children so it breaks the cycle. I am fine with that.

Arya goes off exploring. It makes sense for her character because she never wanted to be just a lady in a castle. I didn't know if the faceless men would come back into play but I guess it was purely for their training.

Sansa becomes Queen of the North and they are once again free from southern rule. Sansa has been working towards this the entire series and the North is once again free.

Jon has to kill Dany so he is heartbroken anyway. He wanted to go back north if he could and now he actually gets to live in peace with the free folk and GHOST. I personally thought he would be on the Iron Throne but not be happy about it. This is actually a happier ending than I thought he would get. I am ok with this.

Bron is master of coin and Lord of High Garden. Loved how the small council ended up being formed.

Brienne is captain of the Kingsguard with Pod as a knight. I liked how she finished Jamie's story. My wife thought she would be pregnant and write something about his kid but instead we got "he died protecting his queen". I am ok with that.

So looking at it that way, I am not as pissed about it. It seems they wrapped up most loose ends but they had to stretch to get there which went against all the character building the show did.

I think the books are going to have a very different ending for the various characters. GRRM has put way too many clues in for other endings to abandon them the way D&D did.

[War Machine Dawg]

I'll be honest, I was thoroughly disappointed with the end. I was happy with the ending for a few characters: Brienne, Pod, Bron, even Tyrion and Sansa to a lesser extent. But I thought the endings for most were just garbage for what they could and should have been. After everything Jon has done to save Westeros from a second Long Night, he winds up Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, which now serves little or no real purpose with the end of the Walkers? I know he never wanted to be king, but it feels like they just completely trashed his entire arc this season.

I'm ok with Cersei and Jaime's fate, although I was rooting for something a bit more poetic for Cersei. Don't even get me started on Arya sailing west for no reason.

Best part of the episode was the scene with the Small Council. The banter was witty and generated several genuine LOL moments for me. It was really a throwback to previous seasons.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'll be honest, I was thoroughly disappointed with the end. I was happy with the ending for a few characters: Brienne, Pod, Bron, even Tyrion and Sansa to a lesser extent. But I thought the endings for most were just garbage for what they could and should have been. After everything Jon has done to save Westeros from a second Long Night, he winds up Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, which now serves little or no real purpose with the end of the Walkers? I know he never wanted to be king, but it feels like they just completely trashed his entire arc this season.

I'm ok with Cersei and Jaime's fate, although I was rooting for something a bit more poetic for Cersei. Don't even get me started on Arya sailing west for no reason.

Best part of the episode was the scene with the Small Council. The banter was witty and generated several genuine LOL moments for me. It was really a throwback to previous seasons.

I am not sure anything else could really be done with Arya. She wanted to roam the kingdoms and be a knight when she was little in season 1. She liked Gendry but being a Lady was never in the cards for her. I think this was just an interesting way to give her a "happy" ending. I think she didn't want to be known as a killer and in the 7 Kingdoms that is all she would have been known for. I think when the Hound told her she could leave that it basically took that burden away from her. Her list is complete and she can now leave it behind.

Jon ending up in the North at the Wall is basically about as happy of an ending as he was going to get. When Tormund was leaving Jon even said that he truly wished he was going with him. I think when he said that Ghost belonged up there that he was alluding to himself but he was needed at King's Landing. I feel like when he looked back at the door to the wall closing that it was ending his old life and he gets to start anew with the Free Folk. After everything he went through always for the good of the people, now he can actually have his own life.

Sansa got exactly what she wanted and it was to be Queen. The North are free again under Stark rule.

Tyrion got what he wanted which was to help improve the realm along with having a good king in Bran.

I didn't mind where the characters ended up but how they got there kind of changed how the show approached character building in this last season. If D&D had made 10 episodes over the last 2 seasons then it probably gets where it needs to go instead of just changing the characters that quickly.

[War Machine Dawg]

I am not sure anything else could really be done with Arya. She wanted to roam the kingdoms and be a knight when she was little in season 1. She liked Gendry but being a Lady was never in the cards for her. I think this was just an interesting way to give her a "happy" ending. I think she didn't want to be known as a killer and in the 7 Kingdoms that is all she would have been known for. I think when the Hound told her she could leave that it basically took that burden away from her. Her list is complete and she can now leave it behind.

Jon ending up in the North at the Wall is basically about as happy of an ending as he was going to get. When Tormund was leaving Jon even said that he truly wished he was going with him. I think when he said that Ghost belonged up there that he was alluding to himself but he was needed at King's Landing. I feel like when he looked back at the door to the wall closing that it was ending his old life and he gets to start anew with the Free Folk. After everything he went through always for the good of the people, now he can actually have his own life.

Sansa got exactly what she wanted and it was to be Queen. The North are free again under Stark rule.

Tyrion got what he wanted which was to help improve the realm along with having a good king in Bran.

I didn't mind where the characters ended up but how they got there kind of changed how the show approached character building in this last season. If D&D had made 10 episodes over the last 2 seasons then it probably gets where it needs to go instead of just changing the characters that quickly.

Here's where I'll disagree: Part of Arya's story is her resolving the idea what it means to be a lady. She should have realized that she could be a "lady" without having to fit the stereotypical expectations of ladies in that society. They laid too many foundations for her and Gendry to end up together to just blow it up. Arya's story is intended as a mirror to Lyanna Stark. Lyanna resolved the conflict between the stereotypical idea of a lady and her concepts of being a lady, so Arya should have resolved that struggle too. It feels like they just said that her having any semblance of Westerosi life was wrong.

Jon...I get that argument. Don't particularly like it, but at least it makes a semblance of sense. Still think it's a shitty ending for him. I mean, how the hell did the Unsullied know Jon killed Dany? Drogon flew off with her body, so there was no evidence. He'd have had to admit to doing it. While I don't doubt he did, that's a loose plot thread that annoys me.

Like I said, I'm fairly satisfied with the endings of both Tyrion and Sansa. I had initially thought they'd wind up married and on the Iron Throne as co-rulers. But I don't have a big problem with their endings. They both basically get what they wanted, just not exactly what I'd hoped for.

The time argument is a red herring. Time wise, we still got 10 episodes each of the last 2 seasons, just compacted into fewer episodes. It was just shitty writing by D&D. Without GRRM to guide them, they struggled to resolve everything that needed resolving. It's annoying to have invested 10 years and waited a year and a half to get that half-assed ending.

[Tbonewannabe]

Here's where I'll disagree: Part of Arya's story is her resolving the idea what it means to be a lady. She should have realized that she could be a "lady" without having to fit the stereotypical expectations of ladies in that society. They laid too many foundations for her and Gendry to end up together to just blow it up. Arya's story is intended as a mirror to Lyanna Stark. Lyanna resolved the conflict between the stereotypical idea of a lady and her concepts of being a lady, so Arya should have resolved that struggle too. It feels like they just said that her having any semblance of Westerosi life was wrong.

Jon...I get that argument. Don't particularly like it, but at least it makes a semblance of sense. Still think it's a shitty ending for him. I mean, how the hell did the Unsullied know Jon killed Dany? Drogon flew off with her body, so there was no evidence. He'd have had to admit to doing it. While I don't doubt he did, that's a loose plot thread that annoys me.

Like I said, I'm fairly satisfied with the endings of both Tyrion and Sansa. I had initially thought they'd wind up married and on the Iron Throne as co-rulers. But I don't have a big problem with their endings. They both basically get what they wanted, just not exactly what I'd hoped for.

The time argument is a red herring. Time wise, we still got 10 episodes each of the last 2 seasons, just compacted into fewer episodes. It was just shitty writing by D&D. Without GRRM to guide them, they struggled to resolve everything that needed resolving. It's annoying to have invested 10 years and waited a year and a half to get that half-assed ending.

As far as Arya, I don't think if she just ends up marrying Gendry but also roaming the countryside fighting battles fits any different than how it ended. I think going on an adventure fits in with her character as much as anything else.

It did kind of annoy me that we didn't see Jon get arrested. I think there could have been some interesting dialogue there. In the end, Jon died protecting the Free Folk so in the end he goes back with them. He gets to lay down his duty which is what he truly wanted. He never wanted to lead, it was thrust upon him and he accepted it out of duty. If he was forced to be king or King of the North then he never actually would be happy which is why I thought he would be king since people kept saying bittersweet ending. He watched his love die when the Free Folk were just trying to escape the White Walkers. Then he had to kill his second love once again out of duty to the realm. He now gets to pursue his own happiness.

I think the shit writing is more to do with just rushing character changes. Arya just drops her list when they get to the Red Keep with a 2 minute speech by the Hound. I would understand if he was basically working on her the entire ride to Kings Landing but we didn't even get an inkling that happened. This should have been developed.

Bran was damn near catatonic and rarely spoke to anyone and now he is saying the reason he came south was to be king. Once again, it just wasn't developed.

Cersei and Jamie dying like that was a huge letdown. Also, Jamie basically acting somewhat normal when Euron punctured his lungs. Shitty ending for those 2.

[TrapGame]

As far as Arya, I don't think if she just ends up marrying Gendry but also roaming the countryside fighting battles fits any different than how it ended. I think going on an adventure fits in with her character as much as anything else.

It did kind of annoy me that we didn't see Jon get arrested. I think there could have been some interesting dialogue there. In the end, Jon died protecting the Free Folk so in the end he goes back with them. He gets to lay down his duty which is what he truly wanted. He never wanted to lead, it was thrust upon him and he accepted it out of duty. If he was forced to be king or King of the North then he never actually would be happy which is why I thought he would be king since people kept saying bittersweet ending. He watched his love die when the Free Folk were just trying to escape the White Walkers. Then he had to kill his second love once again out of duty to the realm. He now gets to pursue his own happiness.

I think the shit writing is more to do with just rushing character changes. Arya just drops her list when they get to the Red Keep with a 2 minute speech by the Hound. I would understand if he was basically working on her the entire ride to Kings Landing but we didn't even get an inkling that happened. This should have been developed.

Bran was damn near catatonic and rarely spoke to anyone and now he is saying the reason he came south was to be king. Once again, it just wasn't developed.

Cersei and Jamie dying like that was a huge letdown. Also, Jamie basically acting somewhat normal when Euron punctured his lungs. Shitty ending for those 2.

I really think they missed an opportunity to make Arya the Master of Whispers. She was perfect for it. And could still be Gendry's wife and Lady of Storm's End with a double life as the spy mistress of the Six Kingdoms. Again, the writing and the imagination were not there. They have combined so many characters into other characters - Sansa was never captured and raped by Ramsey. That was another girl all together. - that just changing shit for the TV show should have been easy.

And who the holy hell is gonna make a deal with Grey Worm about sending Jon back to the Night's Watch. Grey Worm would have killed Jon where he effing stood for killing Dany. Again, writing - the fight between Jon and GW would have been epic. I guarantee you Sansa would have had Tormund and his Wildlings along with every banner from the North at the gates demanding Jon's release. Why? Because Jon's the rightful heir. I mean Varys didn't get a single raven off with his little notes? Bullshit! Again, writing. The big secret about Jon's true lineage amounted to squat in the end.

And Bran, the Three Eyed Raven, puts everybody through this shit and tells Jon about his true lineage as the heir to the throne just so he eventually becomes king? HOLY **** BALLS BATMAN!! That's so dumb. Bran's useless ass was just waiting around to be king. My. God.

Tyrion - sentenced to death by the way - talks Bran into the throne and gets off by being the Hand of the King...while Jon THE TRUE HEIR TO THE MOTHER****ING THRONE goes back to the Wildlings and a severely depleted Night's Watch... who by the way were on the bloody wall to keep the Wildlings from invading en masse and overrunning the North.

And I just love how Yara Greyjoy just votes for Bran and lets Sansa declare the North independent...uh, the Greyjoys revolted against the Iron Throne for the Iron Isles to be independent... that's how effing Theon became the ward of Ned Stark.

Season eight became a complete and total cluster after episode 3.

And now Emelia Clarke revealed today when she read the final script she walked around London for hours in dismay. She did not like it at all.

Thanks Benioff and Weiss you cheese dick bastards. You ruined one of the greatest television shows ever made.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Its almost like Benioff and Weiss had Anakin kill a bunch of younglings.

[Tbonewannabe]

I really think they missed an opportunity to make Arya the Master of Whispers. She was perfect for it. And could still be Gendry's wife and Lady of Storm's End with a double life as the spy mistress of the Six Kingdoms. Again, the writing and the imagination were not there. They have combined so many characters into other characters - Sansa was never captured and raped by Ramsey. That was another girl all together. - that just changing shit for the TV show should have been easy.

And who the holy hell is gonna make a deal with Grey Worm about sending Jon back to the Night's Watch. Grey Worm would have killed Jon where he effing stood for killing Dany. Again, writing - the fight between Jon and GW would have been epic. I guarantee you Sansa would have had Tormund and his Wildlings along with every banner from the North at the gates demanding Jon's release. Why? Because Jon's the rightful heir. I mean Varys didn't get a single raven off with his little notes? Bullshit! Again, writing. The big secret about Jon's true lineage amounted to squat in the end.

And Bran, the Three Eyed Raven, puts everybody through this shit and tells Jon about his true lineage as the heir to the throne just so he eventually becomes king? HOLY **** BALLS BATMAN!! That's so dumb. Bran's useless ass was just waiting around to be king. My. God.

Tyrion - sentenced to death by the way - talks Bran into the throne and gets off by being the Hand of the King...while Jon THE TRUE HEIR TO THE MOTHER****ING THRONE goes back to the Wildlings and a severely depleted Night's Watch... who by the way were on the bloody wall to keep the Wildlings from invading en masse and overrunning the North.

And I just love how Yara Greyjoy just votes for Bran and lets Sansa declare the North independent...uh, the Greyjoys revolted against the Iron Throne for the Iron Isles to be independent... that's how effing Theon became the ward of Ned Stark.

Season eight became a complete and total cluster after episode 3.

And now Emelia Clarke revealed today when she read the final script she walked around London for hours in dismay. She did not like it at all.

Thanks Benioff and Weiss you cheese dick bastards. You ruined one of the greatest television shows ever made.

Making Arya the Master of Whispers wouldn't have been the "happy" ending for her though. She went through all that stuff to prepare her to kill the Night King. She completed her task which is kind of what the Hound told her. It didn't matter how the last name on her list died because she was going to die. It freed her to be who she really wanted to be. The same could be said for Jon. He would have made a good king but it wouldn't have made him happy. He was happiest when he was with the Free Folk.

I think they didn't show Jon get arrested because they didn't know how to get him in a cell without a fight with Grey Worm where one of them dies. They also gave Grey Worm his happiest ending by going where he told Messandi that they would go.

The Yara issue is a weird issue that I didn't think about. The only thing I can think of is Yara pledged that the Iron Islands wouldn't be raiders anymore and even though Dany is dead, she still feels that oath.

There are definitely writing issues with it. It felt there were some leaps in the story that were necessary but they didn't have time because of the shortened season. They should have done 10 episodes like HBO wanted and it would have probably been A LOT better.

[TrapGame]

Making Arya the Master of Whispers wouldn't have been the "happy" ending for her though. She went through all that stuff to prepare her to kill the Night King. She completed her task which is kind of what the Hound told her. It didn't matter how the last name on her list died because she was going to die. It freed her to be who she really wanted to be. The same could be said for Jon. He would have made a good king but it wouldn't have made him happy. He was happiest when he was with the Free Folk.

I think they didn't show Jon get arrested because they didn't know how to get him in a cell without a fight with Grey Worm where one of them dies. They also gave Grey Worm his happiest ending by going where he told Messandi that they would go.

The Yara issue is a weird issue that I didn't think about. The only thing I can think of is Yara pledged that the Iron Islands wouldn't be raiders anymore and even though Dany is dead, she still feels that oath.

There are definitely writing issues with it. It felt there were some leaps in the story that were necessary but they didn't have time because of the shortened season. They should have done 10 episodes like HBO wanted and it would have probably been A LOT better.

I read an article last night that said the clock was ticking on their Star Wars trilogy and they needed to wrap up GoT ASAP. In fact, HBO told Benioff and Weiss they'd give them ten episodes each over an hour and even put a ninth season on the table too (Cause GoT is a cash cow for HBO) but they told HBO it was over and they only needed six episodes to wrap it up. It's obvious now they were probably already working on the Star Wars script while wrapping up GoT.

That whole last episode would have been three episodes a few seasons ago. Without GRRM to guide them they just floundered. BTW, why wasn't GRRM feeding them drafts from Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring? GRRM doesn't have anything worth giving them? I believe GRRM has changed some major parts of the story.

[Tbonewannabe]

I read an article last night that said the clock was ticking on their Star Wars trilogy and they needed to wrap up GoT ASAP. In fact, HBO told Benioff and Weiss they'd give them ten episodes each over an hour and even put a ninth season on the table too (Cause GoT is a cash cow for HBO) but they told HBO it was over and they only needed six episodes to wrap it up. It's obvious now they were probably already working on the Star Wars script while wrapping up GoT.

That whole last episode would have been three episodes a few seasons ago. Without GRRM to guide them they just floundered. BTW, why wasn't GRRM feeding them drafts from Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring? GRRM doesn't have anything worth giving them? I believe GRRM has changed some major parts of the story.

Yeah, I think the Star Wars trilogy had a lot to do with the rushed ending. You would think that GRRM would be more involved with how the show ended but it doesn't look like it. It is a shame that a series that was very good at character development ended up rushing it and forcing an ending that didn't feel like it fit with the rest of the series. The buildup to it was lacking and I believe you are correct that it all points to D&D wanting to hurry up and finish it so they can start on Star Wars. Star Wars probably is going to pay a lot better than GOT even though it is the biggest show in the world right now.

[War Machine Dawg]

Making Arya the Master of Whispers wouldn't have been the "happy" ending for her though. She went through all that stuff to prepare her to kill the Night King. She completed her task which is kind of what the Hound told her. It didn't matter how the last name on her list died because she was going to die. It freed her to be who she really wanted to be. The same could be said for Jon. He would have made a good king but it wouldn't have made him happy. He was happiest when he was with the Free Folk.

I think they didn't show Jon get arrested because they didn't know how to get him in a cell without a fight with Grey Worm where one of them dies. They also gave Grey Worm his happiest ending by going where he told Messandi that they would go.

The Yara issue is a weird issue that I didn't think about. The only thing I can think of is Yara pledged that the Iron Islands wouldn't be raiders anymore and even though Dany is dead, she still feels that oath.

There are definitely writing issues with it. It felt there were some leaps in the story that were necessary but they didn't have time because of the shortened season. They should have done 10 episodes like HBO wanted and it would have probably been A LOT better.

That's the problem. We all know this wasn't a show that was likely to have a happy ending for very many of the characters. By throwing Jon & Dany under the bus and trying to give everyone else a happy ending, they stepped on the entire emotional arc of the previous seasons. Don't be afraid to kill a bunch of characters and have the place still in 17ing flames if that's what you've been setting up for 7.5 seasons. I think they got afraid of fan backlash, tried to go for a happier ending than what was originally planned, and created the very shitstorm they were afraid of in the first place.

[Tbonewannabe]

That's the problem. We all know this wasn't a show that was likely to have a happy ending for very many of the characters. By throwing Jon & Dany under the bus and trying to give everyone else a happy ending, they stepped on the entire emotional arc of the previous seasons. Don't be afraid to kill a bunch of characters and have the place still in 17ing flames if that's what you've been setting up for 7.5 seasons. I think they got afraid of fan backlash, tried to go for a happier ending than what was originally planned, and created the very shitstorm they were afraid of in the first place.

It definitely didn't feel true to the story with how everything was set up to how it ended. I think it would have been appropriate if they had more episodes for that character development however Grey Worm letting Jon live didn't make sense at all.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Thoroughly disappointed as I suspected. This series deserved so much better. D&D are now off to ruin the Old Republic era of Star Wars. Such great characters ruined by half ass writing.

What's wrong with the writing? What makes writing bad in your book?

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

That's the problem. We all know this wasn't a show that was likely to have a happy ending for very many of the characters. By throwing Jon & Dany under the bus and trying to give everyone else a happy ending, they stepped on the entire emotional arc of the previous seasons. Don't be afraid to kill a bunch of characters and have the place still in 17ing flames if that's what you've been setting up for 7.5 seasons. I think they got afraid of fan backlash, tried to go for a happier ending than what was originally planned, and created the very shitstorm they were afraid of in the first place.

Soooa better ending would be for everyone to get killed and then cut to black? Wow you are dark.

[TrapGame]

What's wrong with the writing? What makes writing bad in your book?

Six episodes of "She's muh QWEEEN!" for one. He literally came back from the dead to **** and then shank his aunt. That's shitty storytelling. Sorry, it just is.

After season 4 the main characters got dumber and dumber. They made decisions in seasons 7 and 8 that would have been completely out of character in season four, where most of the major character arcs were starting to come into fruition.

As one Youtuber also pointed out: Gendry would have lasted two hours at Storm's End. Those still loyal to Stannis would have beaten him to a pulp and left him in the street. They NEVER would have agreed to have the bastard son of Robert run Storm's End. Again, this could have been explored in other episodes where a true story of how Gendry proved himself to the people of Storm Lands could have been established.

Just like with the Russo Brothers post Endgame if you have to explain why certain characters did certain things then your writing was insufficient.

[BulldogBear]

I think the books are going to have a very different ending for the various characters. GRRM has put way too many clues in for other endings to abandon them the way D&D did.

Yes.

You already know my thoughts on it.

The show ending as sheit is all GRRM's fault.
3094

[Political Hack]

Samwell almost invented democracy. That's noteworthy.

The arrogance of Bron to say "I didn't come back for nothing" or whatever he said seemed out of character too.

[TrapGame]

Samwell almost invented democracy. That's noteworthy.

The arrogance of Bron to say "I didn't come back for nothing" or whatever he said seemed out of character too.

EXACTLY!

Remember when the Reed girl comes to him before leaving Winterfell in season 7? She wants an emotional reaction to a) her leaving after all they've been through and b) a posthumous thank you to her brother who sacrificed his life so Bran could live.

What did she get? A stone faced response along the lines of "I'm not human anymore. I don't have feelings. I'm something else. I'm the Three Eyed Raven."

And then in the last episode we learn it's all so he could be king and that's where he knew he was going to wind up all along. WTF?!!

And he didn't warg into a dragon, not even once. That's shitty writing.

[Tbonewannabe]

EXACTLY!

Remember when the Reed girl comes to him before leaving Winterfell in season 7? She wants an emotional reaction to a) her leaving after all they've been through and b) a posthumous thank you to her brother who sacrificed his life so Bran could live.

What did she get? A stone faced response along the lines of "I'm not human anymore. I don't have feelings. I'm something else. I'm the Three Eyed Raven."

And then in the last episode we learn it's all so he could be king and that's where he knew he was going to wind up all along. WTF?!!

And he didn't warg into a dragon, not even once. That's shitty writing.

This is why we needed more episodes to develop Bran's character as well as Dany.

[TrapGame]

https://youtu.be/jAhKOV3nImQ

Pretty much spot on.