Vic without a dominant player

[Sparrows2]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

[CadaverDawg]

As good as T is/was, I think Vic will win his first Title when he has an athletic Center that can run the court and move quicker.

[maroonmania]

As good as T is/was, I think Vic will win his first Title when he has an athletic Center that can run the court and move quicker.

Last year was our year to win as we did actually have the best team in the country. Will be surprised if we ever win one now because its just hard to get back to that level and have everything go your way. VV and Big T were 5 star recruits no matter what the recruiting sites said.

[CadaverDawg]

We'll be back

[bulldawg28]

All Vic had to do was switch to a zone defense. He was outcoached

[CadaverDawg]

All Vic had to do was switch to a zone defense. He was outcoached

They shoot like 40% from 3, made 13 today....not sure zone was the answer, especially when we've never run one

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Bibby,
Espinoza-Hunter
Carter
Precious Taylor
Scott
Rickea Jackson
Jayla Hemingway
JaMya Young
We have 1 McDonalds AA in Rickea Jackson and 4 other incoming players nominated for McDonalds AA....Vic is also getting closer on 6-7 5 Star Kamillo Cardosa for next years signing class.

[MarketingBully]

Bibby,
Espinoza-Hunter
Carter
Precious Taylor
Scott
Rickea Jackson
Jayla Hemingway
JaMya Young
We have 1 McDonalds AA in Rickea Jackson and 4 other incoming players nominated for McDonalds AA....

I think Vic will be okay. I think the run will continue.

[Sparrows2]

Those are good players and no mistake
We will certainly be a competitive tourney team
But ask Dawn Staley how easy it is to be a dominant team without a dominant player
Everyone of the final 8 this year has one

[bulldawg28]

They shoot like 40% from 3, made 13 today....not sure zone was the answer, especially when we've never run one

Zone was definitely the answer. One player literally beat us. There is no way a team shouldn't know how/or only play one style of defense. Zone would have changed the total complexity or at least slowed down #20.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Bibby,
Espinoza-Hunter
Carter
Precious Taylor
Scott
Rickea Jackson
Jayla Hemingway
JaMya Young
We have 1 McDonalds AA in Rickea Jackson and 4 other incoming players nominated for McDonalds AA....Vic is also getting closer on 6-7 5 Star Kamillo Cardosa for next years signing class.

I'm not sure how this stacks up, but South Carolina is dominating in recruiting. Have you seen their signing class for next year?

http://www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2579/class/2019

They have 4 5* players signed. Not sure if they'll be able to get the most out of these players, or how reliable women's basketball recruiting rankings are - but I'm sure these four kids have athletic ability regardless of whether Staley can coach them or not.

[CadaverDawg]

Zone was definitely the answer. One player literally beat us. There is no way a team shouldn't know how/or only play one style of defense. Zone would have changed the total complexity or at least slowed down #20.

I disagree. One player did not beat us. Plus we don't know how to play zone. They shoot incredibly as a team and they would have tons of wide open 3's vs a zone. A zone would have made it a worse loss in my opinion

[MarketingBully]

I disagree. One player did not beat us. Plus we don't know how to play zone. They shoot incredibly as a team and they would have tons of wide open 3's vs a zone. A zone would have made it a worse loss in my opinion

Yep. That was my point in the game thread. They had a two for which is great perimeter shooting with the pick and roll. If Cal ever recruiter lights out perimeter shooters his team would be unstoppable every year with his pick and roll offense. Only way to beat a team like Oregon is to full court press them and make them not able to get in their half court offense. We aren’t built like that and therefore they were a bad matchup with us. Some teams are just a bad matchup for you and it’s just hard to overcome it.

[Dawg2003]

Rickea Jackson will be better than Victoria

[WPDawg]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

Ha. You need to spend some more time studying before getting your sports analyst degree.

[PSYCHO(thesis)DEFENSE]

In two years Vic will have four 5 star players positions 1-4, Chloe Bibby, 6’5 Promise Taylor, & Breamber Scott. The players are light years more talented than what Vic took to 2 final fours. I’m not following the argument that we have been good because of players not coaching but we are gonna be worse with better players?

[Sparrows2]

Just stop it
T was SEC player of the year and Victoria was the eighth overall pick in the WNBA draft
But Vic will have players “light years” better?

I can’t have a serious sports discussion with yoy

[HaggardDawg]

I think the one thing what we were missing that could have taken us all the way is Jazz and Danbury being shooting threats from 3. That's the only negative I can say about those 2

[R2Dawg]

With how Vic wants to play I think you are correct. People forget what a project T was. Coaches did an amazing job turning her into the dominant player she became.

[WPDawg]

Just stop it
T was SEC player of the year and Victoria was the eighth overall pick in the WNBA draft
But Vic will have players ?light years? better?

I can?t have a serious sports discussion with yoy

yoy are right about that. Keep studying.

[Coach007]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

Oh look another thread showing that he is in fact posting from another site. look at all of the "?" he has in his copy and paste.

We have a new poster(in and of itself is not a tell all) posting negative comments about a coach who has taken out girls from pretty much zero to one of the most feared teams in the NCAA and he is TRASH talking him.

[Sparrows2]

Coaches don’t turn someone into a dominant player at best they help a player achieve their potential

Coaches mistake diamonds for lumps of coal sometimes but they never actually turn a lump of coal into a diamond

If they could then Saban and Gino are spending way too much time and travel on recruiting

[Commercecomet24]

Vic's gonna win because he's a winner. He took a program that had never accomplished anything to where it is nationally respected and feared. Of all our teams I worry not about our women's basketball team being a winner. It's a culture here now.

[bulldawg28]

I disagree. One player did not beat us. Plus we don't know how to play zone. They shoot incredibly as a team and they would have tons of wide open 3's vs a zone. A zone would have made it a worse loss in my opinion

So you loose twice against them playing the same way? Gotcha. That's great coaching indeed.

[CadaverDawg]

So you loose twice against them playing the same way? Gotcha. That's great coaching indeed.

Did I say that? No. I have been preaching that he needed to change the way he defended the pick and roll/high ball screen....I'm just saying a zone was not the answer.

[CadaverDawg]

Vic's gonna win because he's a winner. He took a program that had never accomplished anything to where it is nationally respected and feared. Of all our teams I worry not about our women's basketball team being a winner. It's a culture here now.

Yep.

[yjnkdawg]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years


We lost 4 starters from last year, and had a starter injured and out for the season this year,and we still went 33-3 and playing a team, in the Elite 8 Final, in a hostile environment that was clicking on all cylinders. We were 5 points away from going back to the Final Four. Add to that two SEC Championships (Regular season and Tourney). So I would say that is some pretty good coaching.

[yjnkdawg]

Vic's gonna win because he's a winner. He took a program that had never accomplished anything to where it is nationally respected and feared. Of all our teams I worry not about our women's basketball team being a winner. It's a culture here now.

I agree Commerce. Good post.

[Lord McBuckethead]

They shoot like 40% from 3, made 13 today....not sure zone was the answer, especially when we've never run one

Well, it was proven over 70 minutes of game time with Oregon that with our defense they basically score at will. Vic didn't even try anything differently. On top of that, we ran our girls full court every possession. May want to save some legs in a tourney setting. Specially against a team not as good like ASU.

Look Vic has played for the SEC tourney championship for like 4 years in a row. Went to the womens finals twi times in a row, so no doubt he is good. Maybe he didnt change cause he knew Oregon was going to light us up on 3. Maybe people had to leave their person at the 3 line cause number 20 would have taken us off the dribble every time. Maybe he knew putting the freshmen pg out there to hit some threes and keep 3 people off of T wasn't going to work. Who knows. Loved this team, but when you run into a team that has you number......well its over.

[bulldawg28]

Did I say that? No. I have been preaching that he needed to change the way he defended the pick and roll/high ball screen....I'm just saying a zone was not the answer.

Gotcha

[Coach007]

We lost 4 starters from last year, and had a starter injured and out for the season this year,and we still went 33-3 and playing a team, in the Elite 8 Final, in a hostile environment that was clicking on all cylinders. We were 5 points away from going back to the Final Four. Add to that two SEC Championships (Regular season and Tourney). So I would say that is some pretty good coaching.

This is a new poster who is going to other sites to down our coaches and programs

[Bodaski]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

Vic is a good coach period. Name me any coach that has won it that didn't have several dominant players. People need to understand, sometimes theirs are better than yours and that's exactly what you saw today. I agree we need size and be more athletic.

[yjnkdawg]

Vic is a good coach period. Name me any coach that has won it that didn't have several dominant players. People need to understand, sometimes theirs are better than yours and that's exactly what you saw today. I agree we need size and be more athletic.


Oregon was running on all cylinders today and Ionescu was the orchestrator of their offense.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Last year was our year to win as we did actually have the best team in the country. Will be surprised if we ever win one now because its just hard to get back to that level and have everything go your way. VV and Big T were 5 star recruits no matter what the recruiting sites said.

The recruiting sites said they were 5 star players

[KOdawg1]

Vic will win a NC here as long as he stays. He's a good recruiter and evaluator of talent, he's a great motivator, and he has one of the few fanbases in WBB that will support him and sell out games.

You say he won't have a star player? Watch Rickea Jackson in a few years and then come talk.

[Commercecomet24]

Vic will win a NC here as long as he stays. He's a good recruiter and evaluator of talent, he's a great motivator, and he has one of the few fanbases in WBB that will support him and sell out games.

You say he won't have a star player? Watch Rickea Jackson in a few years and then come talk.

Great post!

[timotheus]

man I'm glad the women's team didn't lay an egg early on like the baseball team just did. Some these folk need keep thoughts inside but I guess yapping makes one feel more important.

[basedog]

Most of the time the best team wins, especially playing in the familiar surroundings. The Ducks were and are the better overall team. They have good size, quickness, very athletic ball handlers and good shooters. Yes we would have a better chance in Starkville, but regardless if they shoot 13-26 from the 3 point line and shoot free throws like they do it would still be close and IFFY.

IF there is one mistake I see in what Vic does in Coaching doesn't have to do with x and o's, it's his style of hard nose practice that drives players but can also wear them down physically and mentally. I do think the last 4 or 5 minutes we looked a little physically leg weary and mentally fatigued. We had a few lapses that we don't usually do. You can disagree as I may be wrong, but I know from experience one time in my Coaching basketball, I had a team that should have won State. I look back on it now many years later realizing I over worked my team and down the stretch we couldn't make plays that we normally did. I think we had a little lack of depth needed, losing Bibby was huge from outside shooting and depth. We only had one or two players coming off the bench who helped with scoring.
I think Vic will look to be more athletic in the future, will get better or more shooters and we will be more athletic like UConn, ND and the Ducks. We were the "power team" in the Elite 8, Baylor is close but they may be a little more athletic.
We played a ton of basketball starting with going overseas and the many hard nose practices.
It's Vic's style, I don't really have any problems with the way he Coaches and disciplines the players and teams. He is one of the top Coaches in America.

[tcdog70]

I watched the Ducks play the Jack Rabbits. they scored 63 points.. Are the jack Rabbits better on defense than Us? The Ducks were 4 for 20 from the 3. One thing the Jack Rabbits did was not let SI do it all. You have to stop her dribble drive or stop Her 3 point shooting. We let Her do what every She wanted. We wore our player out by pressing and it was not effective. Should have stopped. I'm really disappointed Vic made zero adjustments.

[Political Hack]

Vic's gonna win because he's a winner. He took a program that had never accomplished anything to where it is nationally respected and feared. Of all our teams I worry not about our women's basketball team being a winner. It's a culture here now.

Bingo

[smootness]

Most of the time the best team wins, especially playing in the familiar surroundings. The Ducks were and are the better overall team. They have good size, quickness, very athletic ball handlers and good shooters. Yes we would have a better chance in Starkville, but regardless if they shoot 13-26 from the 3 point line and shoot free throws like they do it would still be close and IFFY.

Teams shoot better at home.

[smootness]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

We'll almost certainly take a step back next year; how big is a question. Personally, I think we'll be similar to SC this year, about a 3-4 seed.

After that, I think we'll jump right back to contending.

[sleepy dawg]

Vic is a top-notch recruiter and a good coach. We aren't done getting talented players in Starkville.

[Turfdawg67]

Ah, Elite Dawgs... where the best coaches in America reside.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Bibby,
Espinoza-Hunter
Carter
Precious Taylor
Scott
Rickea Jackson
Jayla Hemingway
JaMya Young
We have 1 McDonalds AA in Rickea Jackson and 4 other incoming players nominated for McDonalds AA....Vic is also getting closer on 6-7 5 Star Kamillo Cardosa for next years signing class.

I really hope we get Cardosa. It would be like getting Junior McCowan as a freshman.

[tcdog70]

I think some are sleeping on Promise Taylor.. She was all-SEC freshman and now has a year under Vic. I think She will be a force. She is 6'5'' and can score. Put Her Carter and Bibby on the floor, you are 6'5", 6'5" and 6'1".

[Scared_Hitless]

I think some are sleeping on Promise Taylor.. She was all-SEC freshman and now has a year under Vic. I think She will be a force. She is 6'5'' and can score. Put Her Carter and Bibby on the floor, you are 6'5", 6'5" and 6'1".

Exactly and Carter is long and rangy as well. We will have more depth and better scorers next season. Defense will be a question mark as well as rebounding, but I am willing to bet we compete again for the SEC title. We are going to have really good outside shooting next season. Which will allow better spacing teams keys on Hunter at the end of the year with Danberry and Holmes never taking 3 pt baskets.

[basedog]

I think some are sleeping on Promise Taylor.. She was all-SEC freshman and now has a year under Vic. I think She will be a force. She is 6'5'' and can score. Put Her Carter and Bibby on the floor, you are 6'5", 6'5" and 6'1".

Not sure with this lineup we could guard from the outside. Carter has potential and lets hope she puts in the work this summer to improve. I'm not familiar about Taylor's skill, Bibby's outside shooting will be a plus.

Btw, I read about Cardosa, seems some think she is a UConn lean. Geno has been seen at some of her games, I think she is rated #2 for a Center. Her team lost the in the Tn state finals.

[Really Clark?]

Coaches don?t turn someone into a dominant player at best they help a player achieve their potential

Coaches mistake diamonds for lumps of coal sometimes but they never actually turn a lump of coal into a diamond

If they could then Saban and Gino are spending way too much time and travel on recruiting

Yeah, not true. What do you think coaches do? One of the main jobs is to refine the raw material they have been given. Pressure that coal until it becomes a diamond, take a diamond and cut it, then take a cut diamond and polish it. No mistake, a player has the biggest role in their own development but great coaches get the players to buy in to that development.

Now if you want to discuss how raw an athlete coaches have to start with because of their recruiting, reputation etc., that?s a totally different discussion. Saban developed well raw athletes when he was not able to cherry pick the best diamonds but he still developed. He still coached and taught the players and had a good plan.

Go back and watch McGown as a Fresh/Soph...compare to today and you don?t think the coaches had much to do with that????

[Sparrows2]

Yeah, not true. What do you think coaches do? One of the main jobs is to refine the raw material they have been given. Pressure that coal until it becomes a diamond, take a diamond and cut it, then take a cut diamond and polish it. No mistake, a player has the biggest role in their own development but great coaches get the players to buy in to that development.

Now if you want to discuss how raw an athlete coaches have to start with because of their recruiting, reputation etc., that?s a totally different discussion. Saban developed well raw athletes when he was not able to cherry pick the best diamonds but he still developed. He still coached and taught the players and had a good plan.

Go back and watch McGown as a Fresh/Soph...compare to today and you don?t think the coaches had much to do with that????

So basically you are saying that Vic should get credit for turning a terrible player into the most dominant big player in the game and the SEC player of the year
While he was performing that miracle of coaching why didn’t he coach her on being able to play the pick and roll so we can win in Oregon?

I wish the rest of the world worked like that
You get credit for other people success and blame them when you fail

[smootness]

So basically you are saying that Vic should get credit for turning a terrible player into the most dominant big player in the game and the SEC player of the year
While he was performing that miracle of coaching why didn’t he coach her on being able to play the pick and roll so we can win in Oregon?

I wish the rest of the world worked like that
You get credit for other people success and blame them when you fail

Huh?

I don't know why we have to separate all these things. McCowan had a good bit of natural talent (read: being 6'7"). Schaefer did a great job of coaching her up, she did a great job of responding and implementing that coaching. She still had some weaknesses, which teams were able to exploit. Schaefer did a very good coaching job this year, the roster had a good bit of talent but also some pretty glaring holes, and ultimately there were some things Schaefer could have possibly done differently.

All those things can be true.

Schaefer is a great recruiter. He is also a great coach. To deny any of that is asinine.

[captaindog]

Not sure with this lineup we could guard from the outside. Carter has potential and lets hope she puts in the work this summer to improve. I'm not familiar about Taylor's skill, Bibby's outside shooting will be a plus.

Btw, I read about Cardosa, seems some think she is a UConn lean. Geno has been seen at some of her games, I think she is rated #2 for a Center. Her team lost the in the Tn state finals.

Coach Schaefer has stated many times that he thinks power forward is J Carter?s best position. I?m sure it will depend on how much P Taylor develops and depth in the post. If we are getting a grad transfer I?d hope it?s a post player. That or we could rotate Bibby back down to power forward when we need to rest P Taylor or J Carter.

[Really Clark?]

So basically you are saying that Vic should get credit for turning a terrible player into the most dominant big player in the game and the SEC player of the year
While he was performing that miracle of coaching why didn’t he coach her on being able to play the pick and roll so we can win in Oregon?

I wish the rest of the world worked like that
You get credit for other people success and blame them when you fail

The world does work like that but that’s not what I’m saying and irrelevant. Stay on topic. When the players not only acknowledge coach help but give the coaches bulk of credit for their development, then they know and believe that’s what happened. Why is this even a question? Maybe you had terrible peewee coaches but that’s not true with a lot of coaches at that level. Some are much better at developing different aspects of the game and the staff have roles but for the most part a HC does get the bulk of the credit. Why would you think otherwise and is a separate issue from the player growth from within, as I already stated.

That has nothing to do with blaming whatever on wins and losses. Totally different discussion. But if you don’t give the Vic and the staff credit for developing McGown...then either you are just ignorant or have an agenda.

[confucius say]

Huh?

I don't know why we have to separate all these things. McCowan had a good bit of natural talent (read: being 6'7"). Schaefer did a great job of coaching her up, she did a great job of responding and implementing that coaching. She still had some weaknesses, which teams were able to exploit. Schaefer did a very good coaching job this year, the roster had a good bit of talent but also some pretty glaring holes, and ultimately there were some things Schaefer could have possibly done differently.

All those things can be true.

Schaefer is a great recruiter. He is also a great coach. To deny any of that is asinine.

Yep

[Sparrows2]

Huh?

I don't know why we have to separate all these things. McCowan had a good bit of natural talent (read: being 6'7"). Schaefer did a great job of coaching her up, she did a great job of responding and implementing that coaching. She still had some weaknesses, which teams were able to exploit. Schaefer did a very good coaching job this year, the roster had a good bit of talent but also some pretty glaring holes, and ultimately there were some things Schaefer could have possibly done differently.

All those things can be true.

Schaefer is a great recruiter. He is also a great coach. To deny any of that is asinine.


The original post said that coaches don’t make dominant players
They just don’t
Coaching doesn’t make greatness, they help marginally
In the case of the Oregon game Vic hurt T by taking a dominant low post player and asking her to guard on the perimeter

To suggest otherwise is asinine

[msbulldog]

Looks like an agenda 47 post bad-mouthing.

[Really Clark?]

The original post said that coaches don’t make dominant players
They just don’t
Coaching doesn’t make greatness, they help marginally
In the case of the Oregon game Vic hurt T by taking a dominant low post player and asking her to guard on the perimeter

To suggest otherwise is asinine

And game situation has a totally different discussion...has nothing to do with player development. That’s not even close to the same discussion.

As far what role a coach develops...if you think this particular player would have been as good as she is on her on...that’s a clueless and ignorant statement or you have an agenda. Coaching and discipline absolutely had a lot to do with where she is today. Shouldn’t even be a question to be raised about that.

[Dawg2003]

The original post said that coaches don’t make dominant players
They just don’t
Coaching doesn’t make greatness, they help marginally
In the case of the Oregon game Vic hurt T by taking a dominant low post player and asking her to guard on the perimeter

To suggest otherwise is asinine

I read an article where Oregon said their strategy was to drag T around the floor to wear her out. They said that the player and was guarding wouldn't shoot 3s, but they wanted her out of the lane. They also said they wanted to pick and roll her to death. Kinda weird for Vic to play an opponent again and not change up the strategy at all.

[confucius say]

The original post said that coaches don’t make dominant players
They just don’t
Coaching doesn’t make greatness, they help marginally
In the case of the Oregon game Vic hurt T by taking a dominant low post player and asking her to guard on the perimeter

To suggest otherwise is asinine

If you think coaching and development didn't make T great/dominant, then what did? She was not that way pre Vic/johnnie

[smootness]

The original post said that coaches don’t make dominant players
They just don’t
Coaching doesn’t make greatness, they help marginally
In the case of the Oregon game Vic hurt T by taking a dominant low post player and asking her to guard on the perimeter

To suggest otherwise is asinine

It depends.

Sometimes they help marginally. See Maya Moore, Brittany Griner, Diana Taurasi, etc. who were huge recruits, were beasts from day 1 in college, and got better from there.

Sometimes they help quite a bit. See Teaira McCowan, Megan Gustafson on the women's side, Jarrett Culver and Rui Hachimura on the men's side.

No one is denying that there needs to be something there to work with, the makings of greatness. No one would argue a great coach can take any player and make them great. But to deny that they can really help much at all is ridiculous. All of those players had the makings of what they are today, sure. McCowan was a very good recruit; not one of the top handful in the country, but certainly highly regarded. But was she destined to become the #1 pick no matter what? Heck no. She shot under 50% from the field as a freshman.

[Sparrows2]

If you think coaching and development didn't make T great/dominant, then what did? She was not that way pre Vic/johnnie

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn’t making anyone great or dominant

[Really Clark?]

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn?t making anyone great or dominant

Without Earl Woods (for good or ill) you don?t have Tiger?s success. In fact I would say it?s a much smaller percentage of great athletes who are great solely from within. Yes they have to have the make up with in themselves but it is a lot smaller percentage of players that it comes strictly from within without an external person developing or pushing or driving them also to be great.

[Sparrows2]

Without Earl Woods (for good or ill) you don?t have Tiger?s success. In fact I would say it?s a much smaller percentage of great athletes who are great solely from within. Yes they have to have the make up with in themselves but it is a lot smaller percentage of players that it comes strictly from within without an external person developing or pushing or driving them also to be great.

1st not just no but hell no. The only evidence I need is good old American capitalism
In professional sports the athlete gets paid more. If the coach could create greatness they would get paid more. After all which is more valuable a fish or knowing how to fish?
2nd it’s thinking like in this thread that deified Polk and ruined him for MSU

[confucius say]

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn?t making anyone great or dominant

Answer the question. Why did she become dominant between ages 20 and 22? The only variable added to her basketball life was coaching, both physical and mental.

[Sparrows2]

Answer the question. Why did she become dominant between ages 20 and 22? The only variable added to her basketball life was coaching, both physical and mental.

No you answer, there is a 5 star guard that has been on the bench for two years why hasn’t Vic made her great?
He has been too busy with T?
People mature at different rates and at different times. If you could MAKE someone great wouldn’t you do it all the time?

[confucius say]

No you answer, there is a 5 star guard that has been on the bench for two years why hasn’t Vic made her great?
He has been too busy with T?
People mature at different rates and at different times. If you could MAKE someone great wouldn’t you do it all the time?

You can't make someone great without them having the potential to be great, no doubt. A coach could work with me every day and I would never be great.

Is your point that being great is solely a result of the player and coaching plays no part in it? Or that the player herself/himself is the primary reason he/she becomes great?

[Really Clark?]

1st not just no but hell no. The only evidence I need is good old American capitalism
In professional sports the athlete gets paid more. If the coach could create greatness they would get paid more. After all which is more valuable a fish or knowing how to fish?
2nd it’s thinking like in this thread that deified Polk and ruined him for MSU

ETA. If you don’t think Earl Woods drove a lot of what help make Tiger great in his early years, then you are disagreeing with Tiger himself. Yes, it all has to fit from within and from external but his father helped shape a lot of what Tiger was able to achieve.

You are just wrong. Spending some time actually coaching athletes, teaching children, etc. The vast differences in their personalities, psyche, not mention actual ability they are born with. The differences are just too great. You just can’t be more wrong. And if money is the only motivation...why is everyone not rich? Lot of ways to make money but thinking that is what an athlete needs to push themselves toward greatness without anyone else coaching, mentoring, pushing them...capitalism is the only driving factor? Goodness that’s incorrect. And you don’t think coaches at this level don’t get paid a lot already?

[Sparrows2]

You can't make someone great without them having the potential to be great, no doubt. A coach could work with me every day and I would never be great.

Is your point that being great is solely a result of the player and coaching plays no part in it? Or that the player herself/himself is the primary reason he/she becomes great?

The player is the primary reason they are great. There is no “special sauce “ coaching involved. This should be unspeakably obvious because if it was that special touch by Vic and johnnie than every player they coached would be dominant. Good teachers get the most out of their students they don’t put something there that was never there to begin with

[confucius say]

The player is the primary reason they are great. There is no “special sauce “ coaching involved. This should be unspeakably obvious because if it was that special touch by Vic and johnnie than every player they coached would be dominant. Good teachers get the most out of their students they don’t put something there that was never there to begin with

I don't think anybody on here would disagree that the player is the primary reason he/she becomes great.

I think the only disagreement is that, in your previous posts, you seem adamant that a coach plays no part, or only a marginal part, in a player becoming great. That may be true sometimes, but would vary for each player depending on his/her circumstances.

[Really Clark?]

The player is the primary reason they are great. There is no “special sauce “ coaching involved. This should be unspeakably obvious because if it was that special touch by Vic and johnnie than every player they coached would be dominant. Good teachers get the most out of their students they don’t put something there that was never there to begin with

So by that logic (which I do agree that the player/student has to put in the work...there is no question about that) but the flip side of that logic is that there are no good teachers/coaches because they don’t get ALL of the students to greatness. Is that what you think? That because not all of the players are dominate then the coach is not good? That because all of the students are not carrying a 4.0 in a class then that teacher is bad?

[basedog]

Coach Schaefer has stated many times that he thinks power forward is J Carter?s best position. I?m sure it will depend on how much P Taylor develops and depth in the post. If we are getting a grad transfer I?d hope it?s a post player. That or we could rotate Bibby back down to power forward when we need to rest P Taylor or J Carter.

I could see Carter at the 4 spot, not sure how good her mid range shooting is but if Taylor is the answer at center we will or could be strong in the middle on defense I hope. Not sure about our perimeter quickness although Bibby, Scott and hunter can shoot the 3's.

[Homedawg]

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn’t making anyone great or dominant

I'd say he sprang from the womb w God given taken yes. Now he needed instruction to make him his best but I could have coached him and he would have been a great golfer. Maybe not the best ever but great.

[confucius say]

I'd say he sprang from the womb w God given taken yes. Now he needed instruction to make him his best but I could have coached him and he would have been a great golfer. Maybe not the best ever but great.

A lot of times with phenomenal talent it is not the coaching of x and o as much as it is coaching the mental aspect and the drive needed to be great

[preachermatt83]

This is a terrible post with absolutely zero anything to back it up

[smootness]

1st not just no but hell no. The only evidence I need is good old American capitalism
In professional sports the athlete gets paid more. If the coach could create greatness they would get paid more. After all which is more valuable a fish or knowing how to fish?
2nd it’s thinking like in this thread that deified Polk and ruined him for MSU

Why does the coach get paid anything at all?

[Michael Milken]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

You say that like we have less talent coming back....

On next years roster

5*'s
Myah Taylor
JESSIKA CARTER
Jackson


4*'s
Wiggins
Promise Taylor
Tate
hemingway
Young

3*
Scott

FYI
Holmes, Howard were a 3*'s
Danberry and T were a 5*'s

we lose 2 3*'s and replace both 5*'s we lost.

I think Vic will be fine

[Dawg2003]

Don't forget AEH was a 5 star.