Braves 2019 Season

[msstate7]

Lineups for both teams released:

Ender
Donaldson
FF
Acuna
Markakis
Albies
McCann
Swanson
Teheran

Phillies...
Andrew McCutchen LF
Jean segura SS
Bryce Harper RF
Rhy Hoskins 1b
JT realmuto C
Odubel Cabrera CF
Cesar Hernandez 2b
Mailel Franco 3b
Aaron Nola P

We gonna have our hands full this 3-game series

[parabrave]

I think that the Pitching and the catching will hurt us. The Braves did nothing to improve these positions which were the most needed, unless the Wright and Wilson are the next coming of Smoltz and Maddux, and BMac is not the improvement that was needed at catcher. Plus the East will not be as weak as it was last year with the Phillies getting better.

[MetEdDawg]

The concern I have is that there is nothing playoff worthy on our opening day starting rotation. It's got some potential, but if we are being completely impartial, not a damn one of us right after the end of last season would have been happy making zero pitching moves. Literally none. Then add to that Folty and Gausman both being out and Teheran opening day starter.

Three months ago we would have hung the decision makers in this organization if we were told Teheran would be our opening day starter. But here we are a day away and we've rationalized the youth movement line we've been fed by the organization.

I would say right now we have a 10% chance of making the playoffs. Phillies are better than us on paper. Everyone else in the division got better. Yes we got better because we got older, but our talent level didn't get better. Catcher is a weakness. 3B is an unknown and so is SS with Swanson and how much he can actually produce. Starting 5 (or 9 if you believe what the organization says) is average to maybe slightly above average in terms of actual proof of being good. Bullpen is at best average and won't look much different than last year.

We are relying on organic growth and that's a dangerous game to play when you are trying to compete to win championships in baseball. We will see. I will gladly eat a metric crap ton of crow. The difference in this year is we could potentially be better than last year. We didn't guarantee being more competitive by acquiring more talent. We are assuming Donaldson, McCann, and age growth will get us there. That's a tall order when everyone else you compete with went out and got talent to get better.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Still mad we didnt go after Machado or Harper. That core of FF, Albies and Acuna has got to be one of the better in the league though. Not a bad lineup overall. Can Donaldson or McCann squeeze the last of their baseball life out and be good for us? Bc we are going to have to score esp early in the year

[msstate7]

Donaldson gonna have a big year. Donaldson, FF, and acuna is as good a 2-4 as anyone in the nl; I predict all 3 top .885 in ops this year

[Bubb Rubb]

Donaldson gonna have a big year. Donaldson, FF, and acuna is as good a 2-4 as anyone in the nl; I predict all 3 top .885 in ops this year

They better, because the braves don?t have the pitching to win the east.

[parabrave]

They better, because the braves don?t have the pitching to win the east.

Well DK is still out there.

[msstate7]

They better, because the braves don?t have the pitching to win the east.

We'll see. Folty, gausman, soroka (hopefully), and gohara aren't done for the year. We're beat up now, but we can still run quality arms out there. No other team in the east can match our pitching depth. If any of the Mets, Phillies, or nats had 3 of their starters out, their rotation would look much worse than ours.

[Bubb Rubb]

We'll see. Folty, gausman, soroka (hopefully), and gohara aren't done for the year. We're beat up now, but we can still run quality arms out there. No other team in the east can match our pitching depth. If any of the Mets, Phillies, or nats had 3 of their starters out, their rotation would look much worse than ours.

That?s pretty homerish. The Mets have two guys in their pen (Lugo and Gselman) who would be starters for the Braves, and two guys in AAA that would be competitive for rotation spots. And that?s just one example.

For top end quality tough? The Nats and the Mets are much better. The Nats are gonna be tough if strasburg returns to form, and if that Mets staff stays healthy and they get just a little offense going, they are going to run away with the division. All the spotlight is on the Braves and Nats young talent, and the Phillies makeover, meanwhile the Mets are throwing deGrom, syndergaard, wheeler, matz, and Vargas and have a dramatically upgraded offense.

[Really Clark?]

That?s pretty homerish. The Mets have two guys in their pen (Lugo and Gselman) who would be starters for the Braves, and two guys in AAA that would be competitive for rotation spots. And that?s just one example.

For top end quality tough? The Nats and the Mets are much better. The Nats are gonna be tough if strasburg returns to form, and if that Mets staff stays healthy and they get just a little offense going, they are going to run away with the division. All the spotlight is on the Braves and Nats young talent, and the Phillies makeover, meanwhile the Mets are throwing deGrom, syndergaard, wheeler, matz, and Vargas and have a dramatically upgraded offense.

What Met rotation pieces are in AAA better than the Brave prospects at that same level?

[msstate7]

That?s pretty homerish. The Mets have two guys in their pen (Lugo and Gselman) who would be starters for the Braves, and two guys in AAA that would be competitive for rotation spots. And that?s just one example.

For top end quality tough? The Nats and the Mets are much better. The Nats are gonna be tough if strasburg returns to form, and if that Mets staff stays healthy and they get just a little offense going, they are going to run away with the division. All the spotlight is on the Braves and Nats young talent, and the Phillies makeover, meanwhile the Mets are throwing deGrom, syndergaard, wheeler, matz, and Vargas and have a dramatically upgraded offense.

Mets are gonna run away with the division? Lol

[Bubb Rubb]

What Met rotation pieces are in AAA better than the Brave prospects at that same level?

I didn't say "better prospects." I said "would be competitive for rotation spots." Regardless, this is not an argument I can win when I'm having it with a Brave homer.

[Bubb Rubb]

Mets are gonna run away with the division? Lol

IF they stay healthy, yes. You left off that part. deGrom was the best pitcher on earth last year and he wasn't even the best pitcher on his team after the all star break. That would be Zach Wheeler, who is coming into a contract year. Plus Syndergaard. Vargas was very good in the second half last year and Matz is the wild card, but he's as good as anyone the Braves have in their rotation.

[msstate7]

I didn't say "better prospects." I said "would be competitive for rotation spots." Regardless, this is not an argument I can win when I'm having it with a Brave homer.

Let's just assume you're correct about pitching. Let's talk offense... who do the Mets have in the same hemisphere with acuna, freeman, and Donaldson?

[RocketCityDawg]

Damn, guys. Donaldson is 33. You guys act like he's 40. He had an injury riddled year last year. That's clouding your judgement. This guy is an MVP candidate type guy, and to not be sure if he will be an upgrade over Camargo is insane.

[RocketCityDawg]

IF they stay healthy, yes. You left off that part. deGrom was the best pitcher on earth last year and he wasn't even the best pitcher on his team after the all star break. That would be Zach Wheeler, who is coming into a contract year. Plus Syndergaard. Vargas was very good in the second half last year and Matz is the wild card, but he's as good as anyone the Braves have in their rotation.

And where did these superstar pitchers get the Mets last year? I also found it funny that a Mets fan says he can't reason with a Braves fan because the Braves fan is a homer. Hahahahahaha

You actually said that the Mets will run away with the division. WOW!!!!

[msstate7]

Damn, guys. Donaldson is 33. You guys act like he's 40. He had an injury riddled year last year. That's clouding your judgement. This guy is an MVP candidate type guy, and to not be sure if he will be an upgrade over Camargo is insane.

Donaldson is gonna kill it this year. No one wants to pitch to Donaldson, FF, and acuna... you'd be hard pressed to find a better 3 stretch of hitters

[Bubb Rubb]

Let's just assume you're correct about pitching. Let's talk offense... who do the Mets have in the same hemisphere with acuna, freeman, and Donaldson?

You're overvaluing Donaldson, first of all. Freeman, no doubt, is a stud.

Nimmo was better than anyone the Braves have (except Freeman) in WAR and OPS+.
McNeil was better than anyone the Braves have (except Freeman and Acuna) in WAR and OPS+.
Conforto was one of the hottest hitters in baseball after the all star break (he was recovering from shoulder surgery).

They added Lowrie (4.8 WAR and 120 OPS+)
They added Cano (3.2 WAR and 137 OPS+)
They added Ramos (2.0 WAR and 130 OPS+)
They added Alonso (.975 OPS in AAA last year, 1.041 OPS this year in spring training)
They get back Cespedes in June (2.0 WAR and 128 OPS+)

By comparison:

Acuna had a great rookie season. Let's see if he replicates it. (OPS+ 144)
Donaldson is coming off a 0.7 WAR, injury-riddled season and is 33 years old.

The Braves have a good young team coming together and the future is bright. They played over their heads most of last year and may do it again. But that will require Donaldson to bounce back, Freeman to maintain his level of play, Acuna to not have a typical sophomore slump, and for the team to get lucky pitching-wise. The Mets problem last year was offense (which they addressed) and the bullpen (which they addressed by bringing back Familia and adding Diaz).

[Really Clark?]

I didn't say "better prospects." I said "would be competitive for rotation spots." Regardless, this is not an argument I can win when I'm having it with a Brave homer.

How? Not trying to be a jerk but how can those players be competitive for the rotation compared to what the Braves already have in the pipeline at the same level?

[msstate7]

You're overvaluing Donaldson, first of all. Freeman, no doubt, is a stud.

Nimmo was better than anyone the Braves have (except Freeman) in WAR and OPS+.
McNeil was better than anyone the Braves have (except Freeman and Acuna) in WAR and OPS+.
Conforto was one of the hottest hitters in baseball after the all star break (he was recovering from shoulder surgery).

They added Lowrie (4.8 WAR and 120 OPS+)
They added Cano (3.2 WAR and 137 OPS+)
They added Ramos (2.0 WAR and 130 OPS+)
They added Alonso (.975 OPS in AAA last year, 1.041 OPS this year in spring training)
They get back Cespedes in June (2.0 WAR and 128 OPS+)

By comparison:

Acuna had a great rookie season. Let's see if he replicates it. (OPS+ 144)
Donaldson is coming off a 0.7 WAR, injury-riddled season and is 33 years old.

The Braves have a good young team coming together and the future is bright. They played over their heads most of last year and may do it again. But that will require Donaldson to bounce back, Freeman to maintain his level of play, Acuna to not have a typical sophomore slump, and for the team to get lucky pitching-wise. The Mets problem last year was offense (which they addressed) and the bullpen (which they addressed by bringing back Familia and adding Diaz).

Like how you bring up Donaldson's age. Here's the ones you added...
Lowrie 34
Cano 36
Alonso 31 (career 6.6 fWAR in 951 games)
Cespedes 33
Ramos 32

I do think you improved your offense, but you got old in the process.

The east is gonna be an absolute blood bath. NO team will run away it... that's just crazy talk

ETA... I'm an idiot. Pete Alonso, not yonder. Pete does have very good milb numbers

[smootness]

The concern I have is that there is nothing playoff worthy on our opening day starting rotation. It's got some potential, but if we are being completely impartial, not a damn one of us right after the end of last season would have been happy making zero pitching moves. Literally none. Then add to that Folty and Gausman both being out and Teheran opening day starter.

Three months ago we would have hung the decision makers in this organization if we were told Teheran would be our opening day starter. But here we are a day away and we've rationalized the youth movement line we've been fed by the organization.

I would say right now we have a 10% chance of making the playoffs. Phillies are better than us on paper. Everyone else in the division got better. Yes we got better because we got older, but our talent level didn't get better. Catcher is a weakness. 3B is an unknown and so is SS with Swanson and how much he can actually produce. Starting 5 (or 9 if you believe what the organization says) is average to maybe slightly above average in terms of actual proof of being good. Bullpen is at best average and won't look much different than last year.

We are relying on organic growth and that's a dangerous game to play when you are trying to compete to win championships in baseball. We will see. I will gladly eat a metric crap ton of crow. The difference in this year is we could potentially be better than last year. We didn't guarantee being more competitive by acquiring more talent. We are assuming Donaldson, McCann, and age growth will get us there. That's a tall order when everyone else you compete with went out and got talent to get better.

Teheran is our opening day starter because of injuries, not because he's the best pitcher on the roster. If fully healthy, he'd be #4 at best.

Catcher is not a weakness.

3B is not an unknown. We have Donaldson, and even if he were to go down, we have a 3+ WAR guy in Camargo to step in.

I agree that we're not division favorites or anything. But we were ahead of schedule last year, and our opponents made a lot of splashy moves that probably won't age well. That actually should line up great with our timeline. As they are aging and spending a ton, we are starting to hit our stride.

[smootness]

Donaldson is coming off a 0.7 WAR, injury-riddled season and is 33 years old.

Give me one publication that gave Donaldson a 0.7 WAR last year. He had 0.7 bWAR in the 16 games he played in Cleveland.

[RocketCityDawg]

Like how you bring up Donaldson's age. Here's the ones you added...
Lowrie 34
Cano 36
Alonso 31 (career 6.6 fWAR in 951 games)
Cespedes 33
Ramos 32

I do think you improved your offense, but you got old in the process.

The east is gonna be an absolute blood bath. NO team will run away it... that's just crazy talk

The delusion is STRONG with that guy. But I guess the old saying is true: Everyone is optimistic on Opening Day.

[shoeless joe]

The Mets remind me of the Braves teams of the 90s...if healthy that rotation is pure filth. I could see them winning it by 5+ games, I could also see them finishing 4th

[smootness]

The Mets remind me of the Braves teams of the 90s...if healthy that rotation is pure filth. I could see them winning it by 5+ games, I could also see them finishing 4th

Those Braves teams were much better up and down the roster than this Mets team.

[shoeless joe]

Those Braves teams were much better up and down the roster than this Mets team.

We’re they really? I’m not saying they’re identical but the make up is similar. Go back and check em out. Starting pitching carried the day each yr. the 91 and 92 teams...the 99 team. Now 93-96 were some stout teams but other than those it’s a pretty easy comparison.

[smootness]

We’re they really? I’m not saying they’re identical but the make up is similar. Go back and check em out. Starting pitching carried the day each yr. the 91 and 92 teams...the 99 team. Now 93-96 were some stout teams but other than those it’s a pretty easy comparison.

The '99 team was the first I looked at. It scored 840 runs, which was 7th in the NL. Not great, but slightly above average (16-team league, avg. was 810). It also had a +179 RD.

If you think this year's Mets team might end up being similar, I'm not sure what to tell you.

ETA: The '92 team was 3rd in the NL in runs scored with a +113 RD. The '91 team was 2nd in the NL in runs scored with a +105 RD.

[MetEdDawg]

Teheran is our opening day starter because of injuries, not because he's the best pitcher on the roster. If fully healthy, he'd be #4 at best.

Catcher is not a weakness.

3B is not an unknown. We have Donaldson, and even if he were to go down, we have a 3+ WAR guy in Camargo to step in.

I agree that we're not division favorites or anything. But we were ahead of schedule last year, and our opponents made a lot of splashy moves that probably won't age well. That actually should line up great with our timeline. As they are aging and spending a ton, we are starting to hit our stride.

This is an extremely homer post man. Injuries don't matter. Teheran starts opening day. We have 2 starters injured so he's obviously 3rd best.

Catcher IS a weakness. 100%. To say it's not is short sighted.

3B is an unknown because we don't m is how Donaldson will come back from injury. It's an unknown.

The fact we are rolling into the regular season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried should concern our fan base. Doesn't mean they won't do well, but it should still convene the fan base

[shoeless joe]

go back and look at the rosters...which is my point. That team, other than starting rotation....which accounts for that run differential, wasn’t much to look at. Do a position by position break down of players going into the season and it’s gonna be pretty darn close. Not saying the Braves aren’t going to look slightly better but it’s darn close.

Other than starting pitching that and the early 90s teams had no business winning the pennant. Which is what could be said rite now for this Mets team.

99 Braves has Andruw and chipper...who had a career MVP season. Brian Jordan had a career year, frikin Gerald Williams had a career year, GERALD WILLIAMS. Eddie Perez ended up being more valuable than Lopez on that team. So who’s to say that some of these guys the Mets have...nimmo, Lowrie, whoever...put up career numbers combined with this staff??

That Braves team relied on a lot of older veteran guys stepping up...exactly what this Mets team will need. So yes the two teams remind me of each other. And 99 is much less the case than the other two I mentioned.

ETA: replying to smootness...

[msstate7]

This is an extremely homer post man. Injuries don't matter. Teheran starts opening day. We have 2 starters injured so he's obviously 3rd best.

Catcher IS a weakness. 100%. To say it's not is short sighted.

3B is an unknown because we don't m is how Donaldson will come back from injury. It's an unknown.

The fact we are rolling into the regular season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried should concern our fan base. Doesn't mean they won't do well, but it should still convene the fan base

Tyler flowers has 10.5 fWAR the last 3 seasons in 264 games ~ 0.04 fWAR per game.

Realmuto has 11.3 fWAR the last 3 seasons in 403 games ~ 0.03 fWAR per game

Flowers is severely under appreciated by brave fans

[Tbonewannabe]

This is an extremely homer post man. Injuries don't matter. Teheran starts opening day. We have 2 starters injured so he's obviously 3rd best.

Catcher IS a weakness. 100%. To say it's not is short sighted.

3B is an unknown because we don't m is how Donaldson will come back from injury. It's an unknown.

The fact we are rolling into the regular season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried should concern our fan base. Doesn't mean they won't do well, but it should still convene the fan base

I would say it is the weakest spot on the field. Hopefully McCann has something left in the tank and Flowers gets back to 2016-2017 form. I think we will be bottom half of MLB at the position but we are above average almost everywhere else especially if Donaldson bounces back to his pre-injury self.

Keuchal and Kimbrel still out there and I wish we could get them since both are positions of need. I think we will be ok everywhere else. The one weak spot might be if Markakis drops off. We also aren't great on Outfield depth. I know Culberson and Carmargo can play out there and it will be interesting if Riley plays some outfield in AAA.

[Tbonewannabe]

Tyler flowers has 10.5 fWAR the last 3 seasons in 264 games ~ 0.04 fWAR per game.

Realmuto has 11.3 fWAR the last 3 seasons in 403 games ~ 0.03 fWAR per game

Flowers is severely under appreciated by brave fans

2016 and 2017 Flowers was pretty damn good, he had an ok year last year. Hopefully he bounces back into 2016-2017 form. He also wears my wife's number so she is partial to him.

[Bubb Rubb]

The Mets remind me of the Braves teams of the 90s...if healthy that rotation is pure filth. I could see them winning it by 5+ games, I could also see them finishing 4th

Which is exactly what I said. If they remain healthy, they could run away with it.

There's too much Braves homerism in this thread to acknowledge that there are other teams in the division who are better positioned for success. If the Mets average 4 or more runs per game and their starting pitching stays healthy, they are going to be tough.

[msstate7]

Which is exactly what I said. If they remain healthy, they could run away with it.

There's too much Braves homerism in this thread to acknowledge that there are other teams in the division who are better positioned for success. If the Mets average 4 or more runs per game and their starting pitching stays healthy, they are going to be tough.

You predicted a healthy Mets team runs away with a division, and then say we're homers. I've said all along this division will be a bloodbath. No one is running away with it.

[smootness]

This is an extremely homer post man. Injuries don't matter. Teheran starts opening day. We have 2 starters injured so he's obviously 3rd best.

Catcher IS a weakness. 100%. To say it's not is short sighted.

3B is an unknown because we don't m is how Donaldson will come back from injury. It's an unknown.

The fact we are rolling into the regular season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried should concern our fan base. Doesn't mean they won't do well, but it should still convene the fan base

We have 4 (four) starters injured, not two. Yes, Folty and Gausman are our 1 and 2, but we also have Soroka and Gohara down, and they would absolutely be in the mix for rotation spots. Teheran is not better than both. Of course no one would want to enter the season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried all in the rotation, our front office included. But what do you want them to do, go spend on 3 new starters since we have injuries? Knock out any team's 1 and 2 before the season, and two more guys who might be in the rotation, and they'll look terrible.

Catcher is not a weakness. Sorry. Flowers was worth 2.5 WAR last year and 5.6 the year before, and McCann is a capable backup.

It's somewhat of an unknown whether Donaldson will be fully healthy all year, and whether he'll be MVP-level or simply good. But he already came back from injury last year and was good. And we do have Camargo, who is not really unknown. So to simply say 3B is an unknown is disingenuous.

My post was no more biased or inaccurate than your initial post.

[Tbonewannabe]

We have 4 (four) starters injured, not two. Yes, Folty and Gausman are our 1 and 2, but we also have Soroka and Gohara down, and they would absolutely be in the mix for rotation spots. Teheran is not better than both. Of course no one would want to enter the season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried all in the rotation, our front office included. But what do you want them to do, go spend on 3 new starters since we have injuries? Knock out any team's 1 and 2 before the season, and two more guys who might be in the rotation, and they'll look terrible.

Catcher is not a weakness. Sorry. Flowers was worth 2.5 WAR last year and 5.6 the year before, and McCann is a capable backup.

It's somewhat of an unknown whether Donaldson will be fully healthy all year, and whether he'll be MVP-level or simply good. But he already came back from injury last year and was good. And we do have Camargo, who is not really unknown. So to simply say 3B is an unknown is disingenuous.

My post was no more biased or inaccurate than your initial post.

Bottom line is most Braves fans would take the Mets pitching staff but would not trade our position players for it. The Braves also has one of the best farm systems going now. Hopefully AA uses the loaded system to either get some of that high quality pitching ready to go or trade for someone that can help now.

Keuchal would be a quality #2 or #3 guy and Kimbrel would pretty much fix our bullpen on the back end. It just depends on if you want to be saddled with their contract in a few years when the production declines. We are kind of in a catch 22, do we gamble on getting these guys and hope it doesn't hurt too much later or gamble on the farm system producing the guys you need.

[smootness]

go back and look at the rosters...which is my point. That team, other than starting rotation....which accounts for that run differential, wasn’t much to look at. Do a position by position break down of players going into the season and it’s gonna be pretty darn close. Not saying the Braves aren’t going to look slightly better but it’s darn close.

Other than starting pitching that and the early 90s teams had no business winning the pennant. Which is what could be said rite now for this Mets team.

99 Braves has Andruw and chipper...who had a career MVP season. Brian Jordan had a career year, frikin Gerald Williams had a career year, GERALD WILLIAMS. Eddie Perez ended up being more valuable than Lopez on that team. So who’s to say that some of these guys the Mets have...nimmo, Lowrie, whoever...put up career numbers combined with this staff??

That Braves team relied on a lot of older veteran guys stepping up...exactly what this Mets team will need. So yes the two teams remind me of each other. And 99 is much less the case than the other two I mentioned.

ETA: replying to smootness...

Saying, 'Heck, this whole team could have career years and be really good,' is not the same thing as saying, 'This team looks a lot like that team who put up almost a +200 RD.' Even if you claim you're just comparing to a similar team who had everything go right, you're still comparing to a team who had everything go right as a reason why the Mets could be great.

Also, I just told you that the '91 and '92 Braves teams had offenses that were among the best in the league. Saying they had no business winning the pennant except for SP is ridiculous. So we've now come down from 'this Mets team is like the 90s Braves teams' to 'this Mets team is like the '99 Braves team, which had to have a lot of luck to win as much as it did.'

And let's look at the comparison:
2019 Mets:
deGrom - 9 WAR last year, ~4/year before that
Syndergaard - 4.2 WAR last year
Wheeler - 4.2 WAR last year
Matz - 0.9 WAR last year
Vargas - 0.2 WAR last year

Diaz - 3.5 WAR last year
Lugo - 1.6 WAR last year
Familia - 1.1 WAR last year

Cano - up and down between 3 and 6 WAR last several years, 36 years old
Nimmo - 4.5 WAR last year
Conforto - 3 WAR last year
McNeil - 2.7 WAR last year in about half a season
Lagares - no more than 1.5 WAR the last 4 years, 30 years old
Rosario - 1.5 WAR last year
Alonso - pretty good prospect, rookie
Ramos - 2.1 WAR last year
Cespedes - good luck

1999 Braves:
Maddux - 5.6 WAR
Millwood - 5.5 WAR
Smoltz - 5.4 WAR
Glavine - 4.2 WAR
Perez - 0.9 WAR in half a season

Rocker - 2.3 WAR
4 other relievers with at least 1 WAR

Chipper - 7.3 WAR
Andruw - 6.9 WAR
Jordan - 3.3 WAR
Javy - 1.9 WAR in half a season
Gerald Williams - 1.9 WAR


There is no one in the Mets lineup to compare to either Chipper or Andruw, and the Braves rotation went 4 deep as opposed to 3 deep. Sure, the top 3 in the Mets rotation last year compared well to the top 3 in the Braves rotation in '99. No one's disputing that. But they have to stay healthy and on top of their game, which has been an issue in the past; and you still have the issue of the top of the Mets lineup not comparing. And again, this is the Braves team you said basically had everything go right to get to where they were. So the Mets would have to have everything go right. I would argue that if any of the top 4 in the East have everything go right, that team will probably win the division.

[smootness]

Bottom line is most Braves fans would take the Mets pitching staff but would not trade our position players for it. The Braves also has one of the best farm systems going now. Hopefully AA uses the loaded system to either get some of that high quality pitching ready to go or trade for someone that can help now.

Keuchal would be a quality #2 or #3 guy and Kimbrel would pretty much fix our bullpen on the back end. It just depends on if you want to be saddled with their contract in a few years when the production declines. We are kind of in a catch 22, do we gamble on getting these guys and hope it doesn't hurt too much later or gamble on the farm system producing the guys you need.

I say no on Keuchel. On Kimbrel, I'd be ok with the contract but I wouldn't like giving up our 2nd round pick this year.

We're in a tough spot because our window should just now be starting to open. Instead, we won the division last year before anyone predicted, and suddenly fans want to make moves and go for it.

[Really Clark?]

I say no on Keuchel. On Kimbrel, I'd be ok with the contract but I wouldn't like giving up our 2nd round pick this year.

We're in a tough spot because our window should just now be starting to open. Instead, we won the division last year before anyone predicted, and suddenly fans want to make moves and go for it.

Like the Astro’s in 2015. Arrived earlier than expected, took a small (if you even call it that) step back in 2016. Then hit their window in 2017 wide open

[smootness]

Like the Astro’s in 2015. Arrived earlier than expected, took a small (if you even call it that) step back in 2016. Then hit their window in 2017 wide open

Yep, not a bad comparison.

[MetEdDawg]

Tyler flowers has 10.5 fWAR the last 3 seasons in 264 games ~ 0.04 fWAR per game.

Realmuto has 11.3 fWAR the last 3 seasons in 403 games ~ 0.03 fWAR per game

Flowers is severely under appreciated by brave fans

Come on. We know catching is part, but go ahead and throw some offensive comparisons in there. Good reason you only looked at fWAR and nothing else.

[msstate7]

Come on. We know catching is part, but go ahead and throw some offensive comparisons in there. Good reason you only looked at fWAR and nothing else.

Does framing or hitting affect a game more? I think framing does

[shoeless joe]

Saying, 'Heck, this whole team could have career years and be really good,' is not the same thing as saying, 'This team looks a lot like that team who put up almost a +200 RD.' Even if you claim you're just comparing to a similar team who had everything go right, you're still comparing to a team who had everything go right as a reason why the Mets could be great.

Also, I just told you that the '91 and '92 Braves teams had offenses that were among the best in the league. Saying they had no business winning the pennant except for SP is ridiculous. So we've now come down from 'this Mets team is like the 90s Braves teams' to 'this Mets team is like the '99 Braves team, which had to have a lot of luck to win as much as it did.'

And let's look at the comparison:
2019 Mets:
deGrom - 9 WAR last year, ~4/year before that
Syndergaard - 4.2 WAR last year
Wheeler - 4.2 WAR last year
Matz - 0.9 WAR last year
Vargas - 0.2 WAR last year

Diaz - 3.5 WAR last year
Lugo - 1.6 WAR last year
Familia - 1.1 WAR last year

Cano - up and down between 3 and 6 WAR last several years, 36 years old
Nimmo - 4.5 WAR last year
Conforto - 3 WAR last year
McNeil - 2.7 WAR last year in about half a season
Lagares - no more than 1.5 WAR the last 4 years, 30 years old
Rosario - 1.5 WAR last year
Alonso - pretty good prospect, rookie
Ramos - 2.1 WAR last year
Cespedes - good luck

1999 Braves:
Maddux - 5.6 WAR
Millwood - 5.5 WAR
Smoltz - 5.4 WAR
Glavine - 4.2 WAR
Perez - 0.9 WAR in half a season

Rocker - 2.3 WAR
4 other relievers with at least 1 WAR

Chipper - 7.3 WAR
Andruw - 6.9 WAR
Jordan - 3.3 WAR
Javy - 1.9 WAR in half a season
Gerald Williams - 1.9 WAR


There is no one in the Mets lineup to compare to either Chipper or Andruw, and the Braves rotation went 4 deep as opposed to 3 deep. Sure, the top 3 in the Mets rotation last year compared well to the top 3 in the Braves rotation in '99. No one's disputing that. But they have to stay healthy and on top of their game, which has been an issue in the past; and you still have the issue of the top of the Mets lineup not comparing. And again, this is the Braves team you said basically had everything go right to get to where they were. So the Mets would have to have everything go right. I would argue that if any of the top 4 in the East have everything go right, that team will probably win the division.

I will say again...being carried by the pitching staff and needing veteran players (30+ yrs old) to step up in order to win a pennant is what that team (99) did and what this Mets team will need to do.

Therefore this Mets team reminds me of that team. If you disagree that?s fine. I think me and you are arguing two totally different points.

[MetEdDawg]

We have 4 (four) starters injured, not two. Yes, Folty and Gausman are our 1 and 2, but we also have Soroka and Gohara down, and they would absolutely be in the mix for rotation spots. Teheran is not better than both. Of course no one would want to enter the season with Wilson, Wright, and Fried all in the rotation, our front office included. But what do you want them to do, go spend on 3 new starters since we have injuries? Knock out any team's 1 and 2 before the season, and two more guys who might be in the rotation, and they'll look terrible.

Catcher is not a weakness. Sorry. Flowers was worth 2.5 WAR last year and 5.6 the year before, and McCann is a capable backup.

It's somewhat of an unknown whether Donaldson will be fully healthy all year, and whether he'll be MVP-level or simply good. But he already came back from injury last year and was good. And we do have Camargo, who is not really unknown. So to simply say 3B is an unknown is disingenuous.

My post was no more biased or inaccurate than your initial post.

Come on man. Gohara was NEVER a viable starter this year for the big club. Saying him being out affected the fact Teheran is starting today invalidates everything else you said.

I'm seeing a .6 WAR for Flowers last year. Good for 33rd among all catchers. Younsure that's the hill you want to die on? Catcher is a weakness. McCann finished 25th in catcher WAR and Flowers 33rd. You do the math on that man. That's embarrassing you don't see that as a weakness.

So what were you saying about your bias again?

[msstate7]

Come on man. Gohara was NEVER a viable starter this year for the big club. Saying him being out affected the fact Teheran is starting today invalidates everything else you said.

I'm seeing a .6 WAR for Flowers last year. Good for 33rd among all catchers. Younsure that's the hill you want to die on? Catcher is a weakness. McCann finished 25th in catcher WAR and Flowers 33rd. You do the math on that man. That's embarrassing you don't see that as a weakness.

So what were you saying about your bias again?

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9134&position=C

[msstate7]

Bubb rubb, I will give your Mets prop on one thing, deGrom is a total BA

[smootness]

I will say again...being carried by the pitching staff and needing veteran players (30+ yrs old) to step up in order to win a pennant is what that team (99) did and what this Mets team will need to do.

Therefore this Mets team reminds me of that team. If you disagree that?s fine. I think me and you are arguing two totally different points.

I guess my primary issue is that you said this Mets team was like the 90s Braves teams as a way of speaking positively about the Mets...then proceeded to basically eliminate all the Braves teams of the 90s except the 99 team in that comparison. And again, that team won 103 games and had a RD of +179, coming on the heels of teams who won 101 and 106 games. It wasn't some team that had to have some freak luck to win anything. The Mets are projected to win somewhere around 83-84 wins and have a RD of about +30.

[smootness]

Come on. We know catching is part, but go ahead and throw some offensive comparisons in there. Good reason you only looked at fWAR and nothing else.

WAR encapsulates all that a player does. So it is absolutely a better picture than simply offensive numbers.

[smootness]

Come on man. Gohara was NEVER a viable starter this year for the big club. Saying him being out affected the fact Teheran is starting today invalidates everything else you said.

I'm seeing a .6 WAR for Flowers last year. Good for 33rd among all catchers. Younsure that's the hill you want to die on? Catcher is a weakness. McCann finished 25th in catcher WAR and Flowers 33rd. You do the math on that man. That's embarrassing you don't see that as a weakness.

So what were you saying about your bias again?

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

And Gohara would absolutely be in the mix for the starting rotation if he were healthy. Teheran no longer being in the rotation is simply a matter of time, there are too many talented players behind him. The fact that he's starting today means nothing.

[Really Clark?]

Come on man. Gohara was NEVER a viable starter this year for the big club. Saying him being out affected the fact Teheran is starting today invalidates everything else you said.

I'm seeing a .6 WAR for Flowers last year. Good for 33rd among all catchers. Younsure that's the hill you want to die on? Catcher is a weakness. McCann finished 25th in catcher WAR and Flowers 33rd. You do the math on that man. That's embarrassing you don't see that as a weakness.

So what were you saying about your bias again?

When you factor the splits, added value of having lefty righty bench bat that can catch later in a game, etc. IF they both stay healthy this season, I believe the overall WAR from the catching position will not decline and possibly be higher this season. Tyler’s offensive issues that drove down his WAR was from strictly RHP. He destroyed LHP.

[shoeless joe]

Welp...happy anthopolous day everybody

[shoeless joe]

I guess my primary issue is that you said this Mets team was like the 90s Braves teams as a way of speaking positively about the Mets...then proceeded to basically eliminate all the Braves teams of the 90s except the 99 team in that comparison. And again, that team won 103 games and had a RD of +179, coming on the heels of teams who won 101 and 106 games. It wasn't some team that had to have some freak luck to win anything. The Mets are projected to win somewhere around 83-84 wins and have a RD of about +30.

I never eliminated the 91-92 team. You specifically eluded to 99 so I went that direction.

[Really Clark?]

Trade Tehran! Fire Snit! Trade them all!! Braves Suck!!!!!!

Did I melt correctly?

[smootness]

I never eliminated the 91-92 team. You specifically eluded to 99 so I went that direction.

Fair enough. I guess the offensive numbers from that team should eliminate them regardless, though.

[smootness]

Trade Tehran! Fire Snit! Trade them all!! Braves Suck!!!!!!

Did I melt correctly?

Teheran does suck. We can't trade him because of that fact, but that's not a melt.

[msstate7]

Trade Tehran! Fire Snit! Trade them all!! Braves Suck!!!!!!

Did I melt correctly?

Got potential. I'll show you about 10-15 games in when snit makes a pitching change I don't like

[Really Clark?]

Got potential. I'll show you about 10-15 games in when snit makes a pitching change I don't like

You are definitely my favorite melt poster!! A legend and master at it!!

[shoeless joe]

SEC strike zone today I see

[msstate7]

You are definitely my favorite melt poster!! A legend and master at it!!

I'm here to entertain

[MetEdDawg]

So far I've been pleasantly surprised by the stuff Julio has today. It looks really good

[msstate7]

Who knows if Julio keeps it up, but he had 21 Ks in 17.0 ST innings. He now has 4 Ks in 3.0 IP. His velocity is staying low 90s. Looks good

[shoeless joe]

Who knows if Julio keeps it up, but he had 21 Ks in 17.0 ST innings. He now has 4 Ks in 3.0 IP. His velocity is staying low 90s. Looks good

Would be even better and prolly given up zero run if he was getting the calls Nola is

[msstate7]

FF is a dummy. How in the hell do you run there, slow poke!

[Dawg2003]

Ruh Roh

[msstate7]

Ruh Roh

Carle and luke Jackson/tomlin have no business on this roster. Pick one of Jackson/tomlin and cut the other... no need for 2 long men

[MetEdDawg]

Carle and luke Jackson/tomlin have no business on this roster. Pick one of Jackson/tomlin and cut the other... no need for 2 long men

Another in a series of head scratching decisions for this team. None of them should be on a team serious about competing for a title. That's why they are on our team.

[Dawg2003]

FF is a dummy. How in the hell do you run there, slow poke!

I thought so too. His slow ass doesn't need to be trying to steal bases in that situation.

[parabrave]

Got potential. I'll show you about 10-15 games in when snit makes a pitching change I don't like

Well since 7 is the king of melt I almost got there when I saw Carle then Jackson in there warming up then exploded when both came in.

[MetEdDawg]

Well since 7 is the king of melt I almost got there when I saw Carle then Jackson in there warming up then exploded when both came in.

We used Shane Carle, Luke Jackson, and next week starter Max Fried out of the bullpen.

That should concern the hell out of people that are Braves fans. Add to that the fact Teheran had impressive stuff and still gave up 3 over 5 innings and we should be in oh crap mode.

[parabrave]

Trade Tehran! Fire Snit! Trade them all!! Braves Suck!!!!!!

Did I melt correctly?

No you have to go to page 4-7 on the LSU game thread to see what proper melting is, And oh yeah Flowers sucks.

[Tbonewannabe]

Carle and luke Jackson/tomlin have no business on this roster. Pick one of Jackson/tomlin and cut the other... no need for 2 long men

I am in a big facebook group of Braves fans and someone told a story about Luke Jackson being an asshole to a 5 year old kid wanting an autograph. So I say keep tomlin and screw Jackson.

[msstate7]

I am in a big facebook group of Braves fans and someone told a story about Luke Jackson being an asshole to a 5 year old kid wanting an autograph. So I say keep tomlin and screw Jackson.

I think he'll be gone when minter and o'day are back

[smootness]

How Luke Jackson continues to pitch in the major leagues, I'll never know.

[msstate7]

How Luke Jackson continues to pitch in the major leagues, I'll never know.

Sam freeman should have his spot. I haven't been real critical of AA this offseason, but that move was dumb, really dumb

[shoeless joe]

I am in a big facebook group of Braves fans and someone told a story about Luke Jackson being an asshole to a 5 year old kid wanting an autograph. So I say keep tomlin and screw Jackson.

There’s no bigger asshole to kids and fans than chipper jones...but he was a HOFer

[parabrave]

There’s no bigger asshole to kids and fans than chipper jones...but he was a HOFer

Yep you are correct Chipper was an Ahole to fans.

[Tbonewannabe]

There’s no bigger asshole to kids and fans than chipper jones...but he was a HOFer

Oddly enough, most people said Freddie or Markakis don't sign autographs or very rarely. Acuna, Albies, and Culberson apparently sign until they have to leave.

[parabrave]

I remember Acuna, Gohora and Albies in the minors, those three would sign anything esp Acuna. Took a pic of him when he was in the ondeck circle, got it developed that night and he signed it the next day. Same with Gohara, of course Gohara had to translate for him. Albies would sit there in the dugout and talk to the fans sitting next to the dugout. Alex Riley was good at fans interaction also. Of course this is all done at the minor league level where there isn't so much restriction on the players time as there is at the major level. Dam AA ball is great.

[msstate7]

Bubb, your Mets coming out strong.

[parabrave]

Well that great acquisition shits the bed.

[msstate7]

Well that great acquisition shits the bed.

I'm pretty quick on the trigger, but 5 PAs seems a little too early haha

[parabrave]

Nice hit for Scruffy. He tore that one

[Bubb Rubb]

Bubb, your Mets coming out strong.

Health and consistency is going to be the key for this team.

Their biggest acquisition of the offseason might end up being Jim Riggleman to keep callaway from doing stupid stuff from the bench.

[shoeless joe]

Thank God the Braves fired roger McDowell and brought in guys to relate to these young pitchers...dumbasses

[MetEdDawg]

We are almost averaging a walk an inning. I can't even begin to explain how bad that is.

We have 20 walks on the season and have thrown 24 innings this season. That includes 9 walks tonight through 6 innings.

Hard to explain how bad this is.

[parabrave]

The walks started last season and have just continued and getting Folty isn't going to change a dam thing. The FO goes and gets a catcher, not the one we needed, and a 3rd baseman where we were already OK at instead of pitching. I want to know what happened to all that young talent that was being stockpiled in the minors?

[msstate7]

Tough series. Hopefully getting gausman, minter, and folty will help out. Need a good start from Newcomb

[parabrave]

Tough series. Hopefully getting gausman, minter, and folty will help out. Need a good start from Newcomb

I wish he would put Albies back at 2nd in the order.

[parabrave]

Dang MSU infield is wearing Cub uniforms tonight. 7 runs one earned.

[msstate7]

Dang MSU infield is wearing Cub uniforms tonight. 7 runs one earned.

3 earned. Crap cubs' defense fo sho tho

[MetEdDawg]

Good rebound tonight. Everyone in the starting lineup had a hit. Newcomb walking 4 is concerning but the bullpen came in and gave up no walks over 5 innings and zero runs allowed.

Good win tonight

[KOdawg1]

Braves to extend Acuna to a 8 year, $100 contract. Finally, a decision that makes sense.

[smootness]

Braves to extend Acuna to a 8 year, $100 contract. Finally, a decision that makes sense.

Incredible extension, especially since there are also 2 option years after that for $17 million that would be his age 29 and 30 seasons. Just amazing work.

[shoeless joe]

Braves to extend Acuna to a 8 year, $100 contract. Finally, a decision that makes sense.

The new trend and good for both parties. The kid now gets to make real money (mlb speaking) without the chance of injury or decline affecting him. And still could sign a nice contract after this one without the stigma of being too old

[msstate7]

Wow. Awesome job, AA

[Bubb Rubb]

The new trend and good for both parties. The kid now gets to make real money (mlb speaking) without the chance of injury or decline affecting him. And still could sign a nice contract after this one without the stigma of being too old

Right. They are overpaying him up front while he is under team control and making the league minimum, and get him for a discount in years 6-8. It's a win-win for both. I don't know why most teams don't do this when the player is a sure-fire star.

[MetEdDawg]

Still some bullpen concerns about this team but have to be happy with the way the lineup has hit so far this year. Another good win tonight.

Teheran still let 9 guys on over 5 innings which is too much, but only allowed 1 run.

Please for the love of all that's good and holy let Albies lead off. Ender can't lead off and I like what Ozzie is doing right now. The lineup tonight is our best all around 8 in my opinion and that's with Ender on the bench and Camargo in LF

[Really Clark?]

Still some bullpen concerns about this team but have to be happy with the way the lineup has hit so far this year. Another good win tonight.

Teheran still let 9 guys on over 5 innings which is too much, but only allowed 1 run.

Please for the love of all that's good and holy let Albies lead off. Ender can't lead off and I like what Ozzie is doing right now. The lineup tonight is our best all around 8 in my opinion and that's with Ender on the bench and Camargo in LF

Ender lead off vs righty starter, Albies vs lefty starter is the best option, Albies still has work to do from left side of plate. You also want your gold glove CF to play most games.

[MetEdDawg]

Ender lead off vs righty starter, Albies vs lefty starter is the best option, Albies still has work to do from left side of plate. You also want your gold glove CF to play most games.

I'm totally fine if Ender sits with Acuna in CF.. Now if he was hitting over .280 like he did in Arizona I would be fine, but hitting .265 isn't doing me anything from a leadoff perspective.

Ender is hitting .118 with 4 strikeouts in 17 ABs, so Ozzie may need some help, but Ender is definitely having issues.

Ozzie is the better leadoff and I think he needs to stay that for now. Swanson should be in the 6th and Flower/McCann 7 and Ender 8.

[smootness]

I'm totally fine if Ender sits with Acuna in CF.. Now if he was hitting over .280 like he did in Arizona I would be fine, but hitting .265 isn't doing me anything from a leadoff perspective.

Ender is hitting .118 with 4 strikeouts in 17 ABs, so Ozzie may need some help, but Ender is definitely having issues.

Ozzie is the better leadoff and I think he needs to stay that for now. Swanson should be in the 6th and Flower/McCann 7 and Ender 8.

What if he hits .291 or .304 like he did his first 2 years in Atlanta?

Obviously no one wants a .325 OBP in the leadoff spot, but if he posts something closer to what he did in 2016-2017, he's more than fine there against RHP.

You do realize Albies hit .231 with a .283 OBP against RHP last year? That's not someone you want in the leadoff spot against RHP.

[MetEdDawg]

What if he hits .291 or .304 like he did his first 2 years in Atlanta?

Obviously no one wants a .325 OBP in the leadoff spot, but if he posts something closer to what he did in 2016-2017, he's more than fine there against RHP.

You do realize Albies hit .231 with a .283 OBP against RHP last year? That's not someone you want in the leadoff spot against RHP.

That's a big if. I see no indications that he is going to return to that. He might, but Ozzie handles the bat better for my taste. I'll also add that considering that was Ozzie's first year in the majors that he is taking time getting adjusted to swinging the bat from both sides of the plate at the MLB level. So lower numbers would make sense, which would mean the likelihood of him improving upon those numbers is a lot higher.

I'm not gonna complain if Ender is in the lineup, but right now he's not a leadoff hitter.

[msstate7]

Minors kick off tonight. I'm really excited to see waters and pache in the Miss OF together. Miss has some good talent: pache, waters, cj Alexander, Ian Anderson, muller, weigel, and wentz.

[parabrave]

Minors kick off tonight. I'm really excited to see waters and pache in the Miss OF together. Miss has some good talent: pache, waters, cj Alexander, Ian Anderson, muller, weigel, and wentz.

And hopefully we might get a game in down here in Biloxi. Got former pitcher Daniel Brown on the staff.

[Tbonewannabe]

That's a big if. I see no indications that he is going to return to that. He might, but Ozzie handles the bat better for my taste. I'll also add that considering that was Ozzie's first year in the majors that he is taking time getting adjusted to swinging the bat from both sides of the plate at the MLB level. So lower numbers would make sense, which would mean the likelihood of him improving upon those numbers is a lot higher.

I'm not gonna complain if Ender is in the lineup, but right now he's not a leadoff hitter.

How many years do we have left on Ender's contract? How long until Pache comes up?

[MetEdDawg]

How many years do we have left on Ender's contract? How long until Pache comes up?

He's unrestricted in 2023. We have a 1.025 million dollar buyout of the 8 million he is owed in 2021. I have to imagine with the signing of Acuna long term and the eventual emergence of Pache that we will either buyout Ender in 2021 because Pache is ready or we trade Ender this trade deadline/offseason to get a better asset for the team.

Camargo can play OF and obviously we have Acuna and a very cheap Markakis. If we like that, we could get a valuable piece for Ender if we wanted to.

[Really Clark?]

I'm totally fine if Ender sits with Acuna in CF.. Now if he was hitting over .280 like he did in Arizona I would be fine, but hitting .265 isn't doing me anything from a leadoff perspective.

Ender is hitting .118 with 4 strikeouts in 17 ABs, so Ozzie may need some help, but Ender is definitely having issues.

Ozzie is the better leadoff and I think he needs to stay that for now. Swanson should be in the 6th and Flower/McCann 7 and Ender 8.

Albies is only better vs lefty starters. It?s not even close right now. A platoon is the best option at leadoff. As the season progresses it may change but not right now.

[MetEdDawg]

Max Fried just pitched like the ace of this staff. 6 innings of 1 hit ball and was perfect through 5 2/3. Had all pitches working and was basically unhittable.

Offense has once again shown up. Bullpen needs to hold it for 3 innings and we will be looking considerably better after a Cubs sweep.

[msstate7]

Folty at Gwinnett...
5.0 ip 0 h 0 er 2 bb 2 k

Gausman pitches for Atlanta tomorrow. Soroka for Gwinnett. Staff is getting healthy

[shoeless joe]

And ender just showed his value. Acuna doesn’t make that play

[Tbonewannabe]

So are we Kimbrel away from a great pitching staff or would it take more than just him?

[msstate7]

So are we Kimbrel away from a great pitching staff or would it take more than just him?

Gotta get minter and o'day back

[MetEdDawg]

Gotta get minter and o'day back

Minter, Viz, Sobotka, O'Day, Parsons is not bad. Add Kimbrel to that and push Viz and Minter back an inning and this turns into a very dangerous bullpen.

[Tbonewannabe]

What is the hold up with Kimbrel, is it years or $$ per year?

[msstate7]

What is the hold up with Kimbrel, is it years or $$ per year?

Probably years and the pick is a big deal

[MetEdDawg]

What is the hold up with Kimbrel, is it years or $$ per year?

Supposedly he wants 3 years and we, along with other teams, don't want to give it to him at his price point

I've heard 17 million per year is the number being floated around that he's asking for. Not sure how true it is but in today's game I think it's nuts to lock that much up in a closer. Too many guys that can close games out now. Would rather spend that money on a hitter or a starter.

[parabrave]

Whats the prescription for what ails you: I give you the Chicago Cubs.

[MetEdDawg]

Whats the prescription for what ails you: I give you the Chicago Cubs.

They look bad. They played sloppy defense this series and our pitching has eaten them up.

That team is too talented to look as bad as they have

[msstate7]

Good series. Now let's win a few series in a row

[Really Clark?]

If Nick keeps swinging like this, it might have been the best value deal in a long time. What a night.

[Really Clark?]

Supposedly he wants 3 years and we, along with other teams, don't want to give it to him at his price point

I've heard 17 million per year is the number being floated around that he's asking for. Not sure how true it is but in today's game I think it's nuts to lock that much up in a closer. Too many guys that can close games out now. Would rather spend that money on a hitter or a starter.

He rejected $17.9 MIL qualifying offer so I’m sure he was wanting at least that on a short term deal. Early in the off-season rumors of them trying to get him a $100 MIL deal.

[msstate7]

He rejected $17.9 MIL qualifying offer so I’m sure he was wanting at least that on a short term deal. Early in the off-season rumors of them trying to get him a $100 MIL deal.

L-O-L @ Kimbrel thinking he could get 100 million

[shoeless joe]

Supposedly he wants 3 years and we, along with other teams, don't want to give it to him at his price point

I've heard 17 million per year is the number being floated around that he's asking for. Not sure how true it is but in today's game I think it's nuts to lock that much up in a closer. Too many guys that can close games out now. Would rather spend that money on a hitter or a starter.

But the Braves don’t have one of those guys

[MetEdDawg]

But the Braves don?t have one of those guys

Vizcaino and Minter both can close games. We had 40 saves as a team last year. Viz saved 16 out of 18. Minter 15 out of 17.

So together they were 31/35. Kimbrel was 42-47. So our two guys had an 88.5% save rate. Kimbrel had an 89.3% save rate last year and has a career slightly over 90%. Sorry. Not paying 17 million per year for that.

Love Kimbrel but he's not worth that. We get Viz and Minter for less than 5.5 million per year. Pay an extra 12 million for one or two fewer blown saves during the regular season? No thanks.

[shoeless joe]

Vizcaino and Minter both can close games. We had 40 saves as a team last year. Viz saved 16 out of 18. Minter 15 out of 17.

So together they were 31/35. Kimbrel was 42-47. So our two guys had an 88.5% save rate. Kimbrel had an 89.3% save rate last year and has a career slightly over 90%. Sorry. Not paying 17 million per year for that.

Love Kimbrel but he's not worth that. We get Viz and Minter for less than 5.5 million per year. Pay an extra 12 million for one or two fewer blown saves during the regular season? No thanks.

Yeah...the Braves definitely don?t need late inning bullpen help**

[MetEdDawg]

Yeah...the Braves definitely don?t need late inning bullpen help**

Show me where I said that. I said we didn't need Kimbrel at $17 million a year. I would guarantee you that you wouldn't have made that same statement had Kimbrel blown the save today. Ignorant post man. No one said we don't need help including myself.

This board is still ignorant about baseball. Case and point right here. You use 1 blown save in the first 9 games of the season as to why we need Kimbrel. People blow saves. I would love a better closer. But at $17 million per year or potentially more? Hell no. That's nuts man. Why do you think no one has picked him up yet?

If I had to choose spending 5-8 million per year on a much better middle relief arm or 17 million on Kimbrel, I'll take middle relief all day. And all 32 MLB teams agree with me.

[shoeless joe]

Show me where I said that. I said we didn't need Kimbrel at $17 million a year. I would guarantee you that you wouldn't have made that same statement had Kimbrel blown the save today. Ignorant post man. No one said we don't need help including myself.

This board is still ignorant about baseball. Case and point right here. You use 1 blown save in the first 9 games of the season as to why we need Kimbrel. People blow saves. I would love a better closer. But at $17 million per year or potentially more? Hell no. That's nuts man. Why do you think no one has picked him up yet?

If I had to choose spending 5-8 million per year on a much better middle relief arm or 17 million on Kimbrel, I'll take middle relief all day. And all 32 MLB teams agree with me.

How much is 3 wins worth over a season?

First off it’s not just about a closer. Adding a guy that has,can, and will get the job done takes pressure off of everybody else. Minter isn’t good rite now, biddle has to pitch every day and we see what that’s caused and viz just doesn’t have closer stuff. Plus blown saves could mean more innings overall into extras. Fortunately, that wasn’t the case today.

Secondly, YOU are the one that singled out minter and viz...and they are the ones not pitching very well rite now. Don’t get pissed at me because of that.

Also, where can the Braves find this 8 million dollar middle relief ace? What I do know is they have some guys that they’re trying to close with and use in high leverage situations that would be pretty good middle relief guys.

And finally, if the front office believes the Braves are a front end reliever away from the playoffs then go sign Kimbrel, or whoever else is avaialable, since you seem to think anyone can do this job. If not then you don’t.

Again, My post today never referenced Kimbrel, it just pointed out the guys you said could do the job weren’t doing the job. You jumped to Kimbrel because it looks now like something has to be done.

[shoeless joe]

Show me where I said that. I said we didn't need Kimbrel at $17 million a year. I would guarantee you that you wouldn't have made that same statement had Kimbrel blown the save today. Ignorant post man. No one said we don't need help including myself.

This board is still ignorant about baseball. Case and point right here. You use 1 blown save in the first 9 games of the season as to why we need Kimbrel. People blow saves. I would love a better closer. But at $17 million per year or potentially more? Hell no. That's nuts man. Why do you think no one has picked him up yet?

If I had to choose spending 5-8 million per year on a much better middle relief arm or 17 million on Kimbrel, I'll take middle relief all day. And all 32 MLB teams agree with me.

And another thing since you’re some all knowing baseball genius...this isn’t about one blown save, in fact my post was made during the inning biddle pitched. It’s about last nite when a walk led to a two run homer that broke a tie, it’s about having to use multiple relievers after leading 9-0 going into the 9th, it’s about the tying run hitting one to wall after leading 4-0 going into the 9th, it’s about guys getting worn down in the first week, and yes today it was a blown save. If you’ve watched this team all year I shouldn’t hafta explain that to a a baseball savant such as yourself...take that self righteous bullshit somewhere else

[msstate7]

Good test for the braves this week. 3 at Colorado and 4 at home vs Mets. Our pen will certainly be tested

[MetEdDawg]

And another thing since you’re some all knowing baseball genius...this isn’t about one blown save, in fact my post was made during the inning biddle pitched. It’s about last nite when a walk led to a two run homer that broke a tie, it’s about having to use multiple relievers after leading 9-0 going into the 9th, it’s about the tying run hitting one to wall after leading 4-0 going into the 9th, it’s about guys getting worn down in the first week, and yes today it was a blown save. If you’ve watched this team all year I shouldn’t hafta explain that to a a baseball savant such as yourself...take that self righteous bullshit somewhere else

Here's the thing. I don't disagree. That's what is so hilarious about this. At no point did I disagree with you. All I disagreed with was getting Kimbrel. It's obvious the majority of our bullpen is not good.

The only thing we disagree on is how to fix it. You go get Kimbrel and you are done for the year salary wise. No deadline moves to get someone to help us unless we make a trade that includes a salary dump. Probably aren't making any moves unless you are salary dumping, which will be exceedingly hard to do with a guy like Teheran or Ender, which are really our only two options to dump a salary.

So if you want Kimbrel that's fine. But you better be ok with the make up of the team as it currently sits plus the farm system because that's all you get. No additional starter at the deadline, no additional bench bat, no middle relief, nothing. Unless you find someone to take a salary dump, Kimbrel is all you get, and I don't think this team as it is currently is constructed can win it all just by adding Kimbrel. Now you can speculate that we might have more to spend, but that is at best a speculation because we have zero indication that the purse will be opened up even if we are in contention in July.

Now if you find a way to get a better middle relief option, then you don't have to rely on both Minter or Viz as much AND you still have money to make a big time move at the deadline. You have 7-10 million extra to help take on the salary of a Mad Bum, or potentially an upgrade at catcher, or potentially another bench bat. All I'm saying is that while Kimbrel is a great piece to have, there is a reason no one has picked him up, including us. It's too much money for a guy that pitches 1 inning on average every 3rd day. Hamstrings the team significantly.

[HooverDawg]

Vizcaino and Minter both can close games. We had 40 saves as a team last year. Viz saved 16 out of 18. Minter 15 out of 17.

So together they were 31/35. Kimbrel was 42-47. So our two guys had an 88.5% save rate. Kimbrel had an 89.3% save rate last year and has a career slightly over 90%. Sorry. Not paying 17 million per year for that.

Love Kimbrel but he's not worth that. We get Viz and Minter for less than 5.5 million per year. Pay an extra 12 million for one or two fewer blown saves during the regular season? No thanks.

The last two games show we definitely need a closer and Vizcaino and Minter aren't it.

[msstate7]

Minter last season was 15/17 in saves with a 3.23 era and 2.72 FIP. Viz was 16/18 in saves with a 2.11 era and 3.76 FIP. I think they'll be fine.

[Tbonewannabe]

Anyone have any opinions other than Kimbrel? Kimbrel is the expensive solution so is there someone else that might be a cheaper solution? Would it be better to wait until July and trade for someone or see if Kimbrel is willing to take a 1 year deal or cheaper multiyear deal at that point?

I remember thinking Papelbon got paid pretty good toward the end getting $13 Mil on 1 year deals but he didn't have any type of long term deal and was as successful as Kimbrel at the time. Has the price of a closer went up that much?

[Tbonewannabe]

Is there any farm system help that will be ready sometime this year? I know the farm is supposed to be loaded with pitchers so can we convert someone to a closer just for this year to get them up? Cardinals brought up Dakota Hudson and put him in the pen even though he has been and will be a starter.

[msstate7]

Is there any farm system help that will be ready sometime this year? I know the farm is supposed to be loaded with pitchers so can we convert someone to a closer just for this year to get them up? Cardinals brought up Dakota Hudson and put him in the pen even though he has been and will be a starter.

Relief wise? Gohara, clouse, winkler, Wilson, weigel, burrows, fried, touki, etc... I could see any of these guys and more step up

[msstate7]

Anyone have any opinions other than Kimbrel? Kimbrel is the expensive solution so is there someone else that might be a cheaper solution? Would it be better to wait until July and trade for someone or see if Kimbrel is willing to take a 1 year deal or cheaper multiyear deal at that point?

I remember thinking Papelbon got paid pretty good toward the end getting $13 Mil on 1 year deals but he didn't have any type of long term deal and was as successful as Kimbrel at the time. Has the price of a closer went up that much?

Marlins threw romo, Conley, and steckenrider at us Saturday night. I wouldn't mind getting 1 or 2 of that group

[PMDawg]

If Donaldson, Carmago, and especially Acuna don't get it going at the plate, then the pitching situation really doesn't matter a whole lot.

ETA: We just need one of the 3B to get going, but Acuna absolutely HAS to.

[shoeless joe]

Here's the thing. I don't disagree. That's what is so hilarious about this. At no point did I disagree with you. All I disagreed with was getting Kimbrel. It's obvious the majority of our bullpen is not good.

The only thing we disagree on is how to fix it. You go get Kimbrel and you are done for the year salary wise. No deadline moves to get someone to help us unless we make a trade that includes a salary dump. Probably aren't making any moves unless you are salary dumping, which will be exceedingly hard to do with a guy like Teheran or Ender, which are really our only two options to dump a salary.

So if you want Kimbrel that's fine. But you better be ok with the make up of the team as it currently sits plus the farm system because that's all you get. No additional starter at the deadline, no additional bench bat, no middle relief, nothing. Unless you find someone to take a salary dump, Kimbrel is all you get, and I don't think this team as it is currently is constructed can win it all just by adding Kimbrel. Now you can speculate that we might have more to spend, but that is at best a speculation because we have zero indication that the purse will be opened up even if we are in contention in July.

Now if you find a way to get a better middle relief option, then you don't have to rely on both Minter or Viz as much AND you still have money to make a big time move at the deadline. You have 7-10 million extra to help take on the salary of a Mad Bum, or potentially an upgrade at catcher, or potentially another bench bat. All I'm saying is that while Kimbrel is a great piece to have, there is a reason no one has picked him up, including us. It's too much money for a guy that pitches 1 inning on average every 3rd day. Hamstrings the team significantly.

Fair enough. I’m not dead set on the fact that they have to get Kimbrel but he’s available and he’s a known commodity. But to your point he’s not getting cheaper as he sees the struggles they’ve had.

[shoeless joe]

Minter last season was 15/17 in saves with a 3.23 era and 2.72 FIP. Viz was 16/18 in saves with a 2.11 era and 3.76 FIP. I think they'll be fine.

This argument makes no sense to me and was my main issue with the point meted made. I don’t care about last year. Neither of these guys is doing their job rite now. And minter doesn’t even look close TBH.

ETA: I feel differently about proven starters and hitters. They have more leeway and can have an overall positive effect on the season. But a late inning guy that blows a lead can cost a team 5 games and they finish 2 games out. That’s huge. Not to mention the mental toll of losing a late lead. I always go back to bob wick man blowing a 2-0 masterpiece that Hudson threw in Minnesota. Wasn’t long after that cox had seen enough and he was in the road.

[msstate7]

This argument makes no sense to me and was my main issue with the point meted made. I don’t care about last year. Neither of these guys is doing their job rite now. And minter doesn’t even look close TBH.

ETA: I feel differently about proven starters and hitters. They have more leeway and can have an overall positive effect on the season. But a late inning guy that blows a lead can cost a team 5 games and they finish 2 games out. That’s huge. Not to mention the mental toll of losing a late lead. I always go back to bob wick man blowing a 2-0 masterpiece that Hudson threw in Minnesota. Wasn’t long after that cox had seen enough and he was in the road.

Kimbrel in 2018: 42/47 = .89
Minter in 2018: 15/17 = .88
Viz in 2018: 16/18 = .89

Kimbrel's era, FIP, and walks were all up last season. His Ks were down. I'd still love to have him, but not unless it's a reasonable deal.

BTW, I think a lot of viz, Donaldson, and minter's early season issues are from lack of ST reps. Kimbrel has zero ST reps, so it could take a while for him also

[shoeless joe]

[QUOTE=msstate7;1092466]Kimbrel in 2018: 42/47 = .89
Minter in 2018: 15/17 = .88
Viz in 2018: 16/18 = .89

Kimbrel's era, FIP, and walks were all up last season. His Ks were down. I'd still love to have him, but not unless it's a reasonable deal.

BTW, I think a lot of viz, Donaldson, and minter's early season issues are from lack of ST reps. Kimbrel has zero ST reps, so it could take a while for him also[/QUOTE

Sample aize making a difference in this percentages. I’m not of the opinion the Braves HAVE to have Kimbrel but he’s available and they need somebody

[MetEdDawg]

Well I'm sure all of us on here had Swanson hitting .333 10 games into the season. I know I sure did**

He's been mashing it. Bullpen looked great tonight. If we can get that kind of stuff from Sobotka he could be the closer. He's not ready yet, but he's got potential down the road. Minter locates much better tonight.

Overall solid win tonight. Bats have been crazy good. We've scored 4 or more runs in 8 of our 10 games and 6 or more 5 times.

[Really Clark?]

Dansby staying hot.

[BuckyIsAB****]

How long do we keep waiting on all the high potential pitchers we have to develop before we start thinking of moving one of them in a trade to get a good bullpen arm or a legit bat?

[msstate7]

Dansby staying hot.

Laid off 2 really good pitches to get to 3-2. I think it may be more than just being hot (he is hot though)... I think he's becoming the player that went 1-1

[msstate7]

How long do we keep waiting on all the high potential pitchers we have to develop before we start thinking of moving one of them in a trade to get a good bullpen arm or a legit bat?


I'm good with rolling with who we got for a while. I expect folty back soon and soroka pushing himself into the rotation soon. Need a couple relievers to step up though

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'm good with rolling with who we got for a while. I expect folty back soon and soroka pushing himself into the rotation soon. Need a couple relievers to step up though

I love Folty but idk if he is a legit MLB ace. He was good a year ago but just a lot of walks

[shoeless joe]

Not a fan of these 96 padres tribute jerseys...

[Really Clark?]

Laid off 2 really good pitches to get to 3-2. I think it may be more than just being hot (he is hot though)... I think he's becoming the player that went 1-1

I think so as well. That injury last year probably effected him a lot more than we thought.

[shoeless joe]

I think so as well. That injury last year probably effected him a lot more than we thought.

He changed his approach at the plate. Lowered his hands and realized he’s quick enough that he doesn’t hafta cheat to get to the fastball inner half which allows him to spit on the pitches he used to chase.

They mentioned on the broadcast the other day that he had taken some tips from chipper....and his set up and swing is now very similar to chipper from the right side. He’s actually a little shorter and quicker than chipper was

[MetEdDawg]

Our organization is about to have to make the trade Teheran decision. Folty and Gausman aren't going anywhere. Fried looks fantastic. Newk looks much improved. Wright is ready now.

That's 5. And the more we want to think Teheran is getting better the more he stays the same. If we want to keep the division close we need to move Teheran before the end of May and get another piece. Our starting pitching can't keep this pace up but combined with the bats we've got a shot. We need some bullpen help and trading Teheran might could get us that.

[Really Clark?]

He changed his approach at the plate. Lowered his hands and realized he’s quick enough that he doesn’t hafta cheat to get to the fastball inner half which allows him to spit on the pitches he used to chase.

They mentioned on the broadcast the other day that he had taken some tips from chipper....and his set up and swing is now very similar to chipper from the right side. He’s actually a little shorter and quicker than chipper was

A lot of his changes was started last season and prior to his injury he was swinging it then

[msstate7]

Shout out to Luke Jackson, since opening day disaster...
5.2 ip 5 h 0 er 1 bb 10 k

I'm certainly not fully bought in on this is real, but that's some really impressive numbers. Hopefully he's turned a corner with his control.

[MetEdDawg]

Shout out to Luke Jackson, since opening day disaster...
5.2 ip 5 h 0 er 1 bb 10 k

I'm certainly not fully bought in on this is real, but that's some really impressive numbers. Hopefully he's turned a corner with his control.

Add Sobotka into that mix as well. He ERA looks like trash after he gave up all those runs in that blow out vs the Cubs. Since then he's looked really good. Bullpen is looking more solid. Still would like another arm or two in middle relief, but those two guys have looked much better.

I highly doubt we get today's game in due to the wind and snow, but I would say we have turned the corner significantly since the opening series sweep.

[smootness]

Our organization is about to have to make the trade Teheran decision. Folty and Gausman aren't going anywhere. Fried looks fantastic. Newk looks much improved. Wright is ready now.

That's 5. And the more we want to think Teheran is getting better the more he stays the same. If we want to keep the division close we need to move Teheran before the end of May and get another piece. Our starting pitching can't keep this pace up but combined with the bats we've got a shot. We need some bullpen help and trading Teheran might could get us that.

Trading Teheran wouldn't really net us much of anything in return. Might as well keep him for depth.

[msstate7]

Trading Teheran wouldn't really net us much of anything in return. Might as well keep him for depth.

If the youngsters progress like we hope, I'd consider Julio as a RH specialist out the pen. Vs RHH, he has a career .614 ops.

[MetEdDawg]

Trading Teheran wouldn't really net us much of anything in return. Might as well keep him for depth.

It gets us a salary dump of roughly $11 million dollars. We could get a damn washing machine in return for all I care. But that frees up $11 million to go get better.

Rent a closer for three months, use it to sign a top line starter on a bad team to a longer term contract (we should have additional funds to be able to do that according to the organization), shore up the bullpen, or get another bench bat. There's a lot of options with that money if we had it.

And if the organization thinks Pache will be ready next year, you can dump Ender's salary too in a trade, put Acuna in CF, go get a better OF bat or stick Camargo in LF and go get some more pieces.

[Really Clark?]

It gets us a salary dump of roughly $11 million dollars. We could get a damn washing machine in return for all I care. But that frees up $11 million to go get better.

Rent a closer for three months, use it to sign a top line starter on a bad team to a longer term contract (we should have additional funds to be able to do that according to the organization), shore up the bullpen, or get another bench bat. There's a lot of options with that money if we had it.

And if the organization thinks Pache will be ready next year, you can dump Ender's salary too in a trade, put Acuna in CF, go get a better OF bat or stick Camargo in LF and go get some more pieces.

If Pache is ready to start the year next season, you have a spot open since Nick is on a one year deal with an option. Ender’s salary is reasonable that it’s not a dump. And it’s only $7 MIL next season. You then have 4 OF’s that give you a lot of options, if you keep Nick, and one of the absolute best CF in the game. That’s not a good move to try and trade Ender unless you get over value for him.

[shoeless joe]

Defense is vastly undervalued in this thread...

[msstate7]

Not sure this ump is good enough to work in the sec much less mlb

[Liverpooldawg]

Not sure this ump is good enough to work in the sec much less mlb

His ego got the better of him.

[MetEdDawg]

His ego got the better of him.

I thought the same thing. Snit looked like he was saying that all he was asking was for the ump to check to 1st on the check swing and that he was mad the home plate ump made the call on a swing that close (Looked like he didn't go on replay).

Chipper made some comments right after his retirement about umpires. Said this new group of younger umps take things too personally and are too quick to pull the trigger on ejections. Said they could learn a lot from the older group that let you speak and get your frustrations out but didn't take it personally.

Case and point right there. Then he backed it up and made it worse on at least one really bad strike call on Camargo.

[shoeless joe]

His ego got the better of him.

Yep. Very rarely in the MLB do you see a straight screw job...but that was one for sure

[shoeless joe]

Bullpen meltdown...................

[msstate7]

Bullpen meltdown...................

Pretty awful

[shoeless joe]

I wonder how much money this game is worth...

Crowd chanting “we want kimbrel”...safe to say meted isn’t there

[MetEdDawg]

Here's a question. Why is Greg Holland not on our roster? 3.4 million is what the Dbags are paying him. That's 25% cheaper than Viz. Has tons of experience as a closer and was cheap.

The bullpen has done well the last week, but when you see Carle and Biddle and Sobotka come out there you just don't feel that terribly good.

Our bullpen scares me and we better figure out a away to fix it.

[shoeless joe]

Pretty simple for the middle guys...throw strikes.

Minter is gettin killed on mistakes up and then he nibbles. Everybody on the team did enough to get in tonite except the pen. How many times in the front office gonna need to see this? This game could be the difference in postseason or not. Y?all high is a shame when every other facet of the game says they should win.

[Really Clark?]

Here's a question. Why is Greg Holland not on our roster? 3.4 million is what the Dbags are paying him. That's 25% cheaper than Viz. Has tons of experience as a closer and was cheap.

The bullpen has done well the last week, but when you see Carle and Biddle and Sobotka come out there you just don't feel that terribly good.

Our bullpen scares me and we better figure out a away to fix it.

Last 3 years averaging over 4 ERA (4.66 last season) and over 5 BB/9 average the last 3 seasons as well. This is not the same guy who was dominate in Kansas City. He may rebound this season but 5 innings early this season isn’t enough to determine. His numbers are not close to sustainable for the season.

[MetEdDawg]

Last 3 years averaging over 4 ERA (4.66 last season) and over 5 BB/9 average the last 3 seasons as well. This is not the same guy who was dominate in Kansas City. He may rebound this season but 5 innings early this season isn’t enough to determine. His numbers are not close to sustainable for the season.

Agreed, but in no way shape or form could he be worse than what we have now.

Our biggest problem right now is that if you add up our entire bullpen salary of who is active right now you get $6.5 million dollars. That's got to be the lowest in all of baseball. We are paying for lack of experience right now and not in dollars.

O'Day, Viz, and Venters are $16 million. Not good at all for our active roster but look how poor of a return we are getting from the 3 on the injured list. $16 million for nothing from O'Day, a 20+ ERA from Venters, and a barely available Viz.

We have to do better there.

[msstate7]

Use Wilson, touki, newcomb, Anderson, Wright, clouse, gohara (when he's healthy), allard, whoever. Give em all a shot till some work. Rotation is almost set: folty, gausman, fried, Julio, and soroka.

[HooverDawg]

The last two games show we definitely need a closer and Vizcaino and Minter aren't it.

Bump. Viz has thrown over 38 innings in a season just once his entire career. He can't stay healthy. And Minter is a solid 7th or 8th inning guy, but he's not a closer. We need bullpen help in a bad way. If we were to sign Kimbrel that would allow Minter and Viz to work some high leverage 7th and 8th inning spots. Will be interesting to see how many more blown leads it's gonna take before we do something about it. It's a problem.

[HooverDawg]

Use Wilson, touki, newcomb, Anderson, Wright, clouse, gohara (when he's healthy), allard, whoever. Give em all a shot till some work. Rotation is almost set: folty, gausman, fried, Julio, and soroka.

Or why not trade some of those guys? We've got like 10 starting pitchers in the minors that are probably at best future middle/backend rotation guys. It's great having a nice farm system but we've already let a few of them lose their value.

[Tbonewannabe]

Or why not trade some of those guys? We've got like 10 starting pitchers in the minors that are probably at best future middle/backend rotation guys. It's great having a nice farm system but we've already let a few of them lose their value.

At least get them up like the Cardinals did with Dakota Hudson. Let them be a long reliever until you are ready to start them.

[msstate7]

Viz is done for year

[shoeless joe]

Viz is done for year

Maybe this will lite a fire under AA’s ass to get something done. I was down on this team before the season but I now see that the pen is the only glaring weakness. Fix that and it’ll be a fun summer. Stand pat and you don’t make the playoffs

[Tbonewannabe]

Maybe this will lite a fire under AA’s ass to get something done. I was down on this team before the season but I now see that the pen is the only glaring weakness. Fix that and it’ll be a fun summer. Stand pat and you don’t make the playoffs

All the other pieces are there to make a playoff push. I think the starting pitching is good enough with the offense and defense they put on the field.

[shoeless joe]

All the other pieces are there to make a playoff push. I think the starting pitching is good enough with the offense and defense they put on the field.

Agree. But last nite showed that all the other pieces can play winning ball and a shitty pen means an L

[Really Clark?]

7 good innings from Gausman

[msstate7]

7 good innings from Gausman

Missed it, but box score looks really strong... 10 k, 1 bb, 3 h. Dang

[msstate7]

Parsons and Luke Jackson are our best relievers at the moment

[shoeless joe]

Parsons and Luke Jackson are our best relievers at the moment

All that needs said

[Really Clark?]

Throw your cutter Minter/McCann. Both 4 seamers grooved and hit. Jumped on that

[Really Clark?]

That’s where your 4 seamer needs to be...top of the zone. But two cutters prior

[shoeless joe]

I wonder how much money this game was worth...

[MetEdDawg]

Biddle runs his mouth saying he won't let last night happen again. He comes in a commits a 2 base error and walks 3, including Adam Jones with the bases loaded.

That's just so terrible, as is our bullpen.

[msstate7]

If we want this season to be special, we probably should pull for these collapses early in the season like this. If we tread water, AA will sit on his butt. Keep crashing and burning... get his seat hot.

ETA... not sure why I said his seat will get hot; I think he's got plenty of job security. I was thinking of the nats a few years ago when they were having these same issues, and they forced them to make a move, Madson and Doolittle. Man, I wish a trade like that would present itself

[parabrave]

Well since the bp just really crashed and burned tonight and Bye Bye Vizcaino all I can say is: Kimbrell. Kimbrell, Kimbrell.

[msstate7]

We can blame the bull pen, and they certainly deserve to be ripped. With that said, 17 Ks today and 35 for the series. That crap ain't gonna cut it. Pathetic series... kluber and Bauer now, yuck

[KOdawg1]

What a crappy series.

[Political Hack]

Need more arms in the pen. They'd better go get a dominant closer, which would help a lot. They've got some young arms they can developmstill, but they're all righty's and inexperienced.

[MetEdDawg]

Bullpen deflated the offense today. Two losses directly related to them deflates an offense.

[shoeless joe]

Bullpen deflated the offense today. Two losses directly related to them deflates an offense.

100% correct

[msstate7]

Bullpen deflated the offense today. Two losses directly related to them deflates an offense.

78 Ks in 7 games (2-5 home stand)

[MetEdDawg]

78 Ks in 7 games (2-5 home stand)

Oh I don't disagree. But we should have won the 1st game of this series. Very much could have won game 2. Bullpen blew both.

Come back today and they do the same again. Gave up 3 runs after Soroka left. Pitiful job by them this weekend and crap definitely deflates you.

[HooverDawg]

Oh I don't disagree. But we should have won the 1st game of this series. Very much could have won game 2. Bullpen blew both.

Come back today and they do the same again. Gave up 3 runs after Soroka left. Pitiful job by them this weekend and crap definitely deflates you.

Yep

[msstate7]

Oh I don't disagree. But we should have won the 1st game of this series. Very much could have won game 2. Bullpen blew both.

Come back today and they do the same again. Gave up 3 runs after Soroka left. Pitiful job by them this weekend and crap definitely deflates you.

Bullpen certainly blew game 1. Game 2 was equal responsibility imo... 2 runs ain't gonna win many games. BTW, I'm not taking up for pen... those guys disgust me

[Really Clark?]

Well not much can be done right. April is tough to make deals and everyday it gets closer to making sense on waiting to sign Kimbrel (not to mention what would take to sign him). Difficult choices right now and a pen that while loaded with arms, way too inconsistent to keep the team in striking distance as of today

[Tbonewannabe]

Well not much can be done right. April is tough to make deals and everyday it gets closer to making sense on waiting to sign Kimbrel (not to mention what would take to sign him). Difficult choices right now and a pen that while loaded with arms, way too inconsistent to keep the team in striking distance as of today

So do you think AA is just waiting for June 1st?, is that when you can sign Kimbrel without losing the draft pick? With all of the pitching in the farm system, how do we not at least have 1 or 2 guys to put in the pen?

[Really Clark?]

So do you think AA is just waiting for June 1st?, is that when you can sign Kimbrel without losing the draft pick? With all of the pitching in the farm system, how do we not at least have 1 or 2 guys to put in the pen?

Yeah I think most clubs are looking at it that way, if you wait until after the draft you don’t lose the pick and that slot money. I still think he wants Kimbrel on a short deal either way.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Or why not trade some of those guys? We've got like 10 starting pitchers in the minors that are probably at best future middle/backend rotation guys. It's great having a nice farm system but we've already let a few of them lose their value.

I asked this same thing a while back

[BoomBoom]

Oh I don't disagree. But we should have won the 1st game of this series. Very much could have won game 2. Bullpen blew both.

Come back today and they do the same again. Gave up 3 runs after Soroka left. Pitiful job by them this weekend and crap definitely deflates you.

2nd-worst bullpen management in the Majors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.talkingchop.com/platform/amp/2019/4/17/18411830/quick-hits-that-pesky-handedness-usage-thing-atlanta-braves

And that was before he left LH Biddle in to walk a RH hitter (Adam jones) with the bases loaded, then pulled him for a RH pitcher to face the next RH batter. He has no idea what he is doing. It's like watching Moneyball in real life.

[BoomBoom]

I asked this same thing a while back

Bad timing mostly. They have no minor league depth thanks to the BS penalties. They don't want to trade the guys that are ready or almost, like Touki or Wright, they can't get decent value for the vets (Teheran, Newcomb) or Allard, and the guys behind this crop (Anderson, Muller, Wentz) look too good to trade too.

It sucks, but the best plan is to ride it out. Sign Kimbrel in 6 weeks if you can. Transition a couple starters to the pen. Keep shuffling the young starters between AAA and back to keep their innings down and keep the rotation fresh for late in the season. Grab a couple pen arms from teams that fall out of contention.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Bad timing mostly. They have no minor league depth thanks to the BS penalties. They don't want to trade the guys that are ready or almost, like Touki or Wright, they can't get decent value for the vets (Teheran, Newcomb) or Allard, and the guys behind this crop (Anderson, Muller, Wentz) look too good to trade too.

It sucks, but the best plan is to ride it out. Sign Kimbrel in 6 weeks if you can. Transition a couple starters to the pen. Keep shuffling the young starters between AAA and back to keep their innings down and keep the rotation fresh for late in the season. Grab a couple pen arms from teams that fall out of contention.

I thought Newcomb was pretty young

[trob115]

2nd-worst bullpen management in the Majors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.talkingchop.com/platform/amp/2019/4/17/18411830/quick-hits-that-pesky-handedness-usage-thing-atlanta-braves

And that was before he left LH Biddle in to walk a RH hitter (Adam jones) with the bases loaded, then pulled him for a RH pitcher to face the next RH batter. He has no idea what he is doing. It's like watching Moneyball in real life.

Biddle has reverse splits, but I agree he should?ve been pulled before facing Jones.

We need to go sign CK and that will alleviate some of the BP woes.

[Really Clark?]

Biddle has reverse splits, but I agree he should?ve been pulled before facing Jones.

We need to go sign CK and that will alleviate some of the BP woes.

For how much? When? You want to give up a draft pick and slot money by not waiting until after the draft? It’s easy to just say sign Kimbrel but NOBODY has come close to trying to sign him at this point because the demand has been way too high for his services. Way too high. There’s nobody else’s in free agency worth getting, although Gio Gonzales May about to be released and could be interesting to look at but doesn’t help our back end. And it’s April, who’s wanting trade and has something we want? I would love to pull Vazquez from Pittsburg but it ain’t happening right now (or probably at all for the season)

[msstate7]

Really wish I knew more about o'day and gohara's likeliness of returning. These 2 could really help. We really need venters to regain last year's form.

I wouldn't be surprised if we some of these farm guys get a shot soon in the pen: Huascar Ynoa, Corbin clouse, Patrick weigel, Thomas Burrows, newcomb, Bryse Wilson

[msstate7]

For how much? When? You want to give up a draft pick and slot money by not waiting until after the draft? It’s easy to just say sign Kimbrel but NOBODY has come close to trying to sign him at this point because the demand has been way too high for his services. Way too high. There’s nobody else’s in free agency worth getting, although Gio Gonzales May about to be released and could be interesting to look at but doesn’t help our back end. And it’s April, who’s wanting trade and has something we want? I would love to pull Vazquez from Pittsburg but it ain’t happening right now (or probably at all for the season)

The slot money is the killer with 2 1st round picks

[trob115]

Really wish I knew more about o'day and gohara's likeliness of returning. These 2 could really help. We really need venters to regain last year's form.

I wouldn't be surprised if we some of these farm guys get a shot soon in the pen: Huascar Ynoa, Corbin clouse, Patrick weigel, Thomas Burrows, newcomb, Bryse Wilson


Not sure what they are waiting on with giving Clouse his chance.

Maybe a move to the pen would help Newk out and he could be an Andrew Miller type. I think the braves are reluctant to try still, but he?s walking the world right now.

[msstate7]

Rosenthal: Also: #SFGiants* telling teams they are willing to talk about some of their veteran relievers right now. Believe they have arms at Triple A who could perform at roughly same level. Bumgarner, Smith more likely to move closer to 7/31. Could be best starter and reliever available.
...
Alright AA, go get 2 of smith, Watson, and melancon. Get those guys and we are a legit nl threat

[BoomBoom]

I thought Newcomb was pretty young

Fun fact, Teheran is only 3 years older than Newcomb.

[Really Clark?]

Rosenthal: Also: #SFGiants* telling teams they are willing to talk about some of their veteran relievers right now. Believe they have arms at Triple A who could perform at roughly same level. Bumgarner, Smith more likely to move closer to 7/31. Could be best starter and reliever available.
...
Alright AA, go get 2 of smith, Watson, and melancon. Get those guys and we are a legit nl threat

They probably won’t include Smith (would love to have him) in the trade mix right now. My other question is why would you take on Melecone’s $44 MIL through 2021 at age 34 when Kimbrel is still out there? His numbers look good but the outlining stats are worse than the concerns people are having over Kimbrel. That doesn’t make sense. Bumgarner and Watson I’d take

[msstate7]

They probably won’t include Smith (would love to have him) in the trade mix right now. My other question is why would you take on Melecone’s $44 MIL through 2021 at age 34 when Kimbrel is still out there? His numbers look good but the outlining stats are worse than the concerns people are having over Kimbrel. That doesn’t make sense. Bumgarner and Watson I’d take
I wouldn't. I'd give more so SF would pick up some of the salary

[Really Clark?]

I wouldn't. I'd give more so SF would pick up some of the salary

Depends on what it takes. They are looking to dump salary in some form, even if they pick up half $7MIL for ages 35-37 to a reliever who’s numbers are shaky...it would have to be a creative deal. Maybe they take Terahan and that would help a very little. Still think I would rather sign Kimbrel for 3-4 years for $45-50 MIL

[msstate7]

Depends on what it takes. They are looking to dump salary in some form, even if they pick up half $7MIL for ages 35-37 to a reliever who’s numbers are shaky...it would have to be a creative deal. Maybe they take Terahan and that would help a very little. Still think I would rather sign Kimbrel for 3-4 years for $45-50 MIL

Who wouldn't (besides the pick part)? If SF wants to move melancon, I think they'll have to package him with someone or pick up salary. I haven't really given too much thought on what I'd be willing to give up (and I'm pretty terrible at determining surplus value), but I'd certainly be calling if I were AA

[Really Clark?]

Goodness Touki

[msstate7]

Goodness Touki

This is pretty much all our pitching prospects except soroka.

[msstate7]

In a couple hours, the braves will have lost 5 games in a row. This didn't happen last year. I'm sick of these plus arms with no control... trade some of them for some proven relievers

[Really Clark?]

So bad. So bad. How many is the record for hit batters? Good grief

[msstate7]

So bad. So bad. How many is the record for hit batters? Good grief

This is hard to watch.

[Really Clark?]

Oh the record is only 6 times in one game. We have plenty of time to beat that

[msstate7]

Acuna with 4th k in 5 PAs today. The braves are being flat out dominated

[msstate7]

Braves have struck out 99 times last 9 games (still 7 outs left in this one). They are 2-7 in these 9 BTW

[Really Clark?]

Crazy game.

[msstate7]

Crazy game.

Unbelievable... this could jump start the season. Gotta hold it though

[Really Clark?]

Come on Minter...fill up the zone

[Really Clark?]

Good pitch. Paint that all day

[Really Clark?]

Ok Minter...strikeout the side. Good job

[msstate7]

What a huge win

[Really Clark?]

You know like they said, at the start of the day if you could win 1 of 2 against those starters you’d take it. Crazy way for it to happen

[msstate7]

Braves' pen in 2nd games... 7.2 ip 0 er

[MetEdDawg]

Well Touki is now down and Wilson back up. This rotating crap is really not helping us. I think it continues to devalue our assets.

We are really pissing me off right now and are lucky the Phillies have underwhelmed so far.

[msstate7]

If espn is correct, we'll get our first look at our full rotation this week:

Tuesday - gausman
Wed - soroka
Thurs - Julio
Friday - folty
Sat - fried

The Wilson promotion must be for the pen then.

[Tbonewannabe]

If espn is correct, we'll get our first look at our full rotation this week:

Tuesday - gausman
Wed - soroka
Thurs - Julio
Friday - folty
Sat - fried

The Wilson promotion must be for the pen then.

That is actually a pretty good rotation and Fried keeps showing he might have Ace potential. Newcomb is damn good when he is on so maybe he will get his head right.

[MetEdDawg]

If espn is correct, we'll get our first look at our full rotation this week:

Tuesday - gausman
Wed - soroka
Thurs - Julio
Friday - folty
Sat - fried

The Wilson promotion must be for the pen then.

Snitker said at the beginning of the year we were going to employ some 6 man rotation stuff. Wilson will probably do what Fried did at the beginning of the year. The first game or two of the rotation he might be available in a short relief role. Then when the 6th day rolls around or right after an off day Wilson would start.

I think Wilson has a chance to be solid in the bullpen for us. I like him in that role and think ultimately he will have a better chance to pitch more consistently and succeed from that. Fried and Soroka seem to be legit. I could see us resigning Gausman or trading for another arm after 2020 (Gausman has an arbitration in 2020). So that's 3 spots taken up plus Folty makes 4.

So if you have Fried, Soroka, Gausman/other pitcher of equal or greater value, Folty, that leaves one spot for Wilson, Wright, Touki, Newcomb, or another acquisition. That's exceedingly crowded. Make the move to the bullpen, be an 8th inning type guy and help the team out by strengthening the bullpen.

[shoeless joe]

Wonder how much this game was worth...


But keep saving that money AA, after all any joe blow can save a ball game

[msstate7]

Wonder how much this game was worth...


But keep saving that money AA, after all any joe blow can save a ball game

If he doesn't wanna give up that pick, fine, then have melancon and Watson on the next plane. This is squarely on AA

[shoeless joe]

If he doesn't wanna give up that pick, fine, then have melancon and Watson on the next plane. This is squarely on AA

Evidence is beginning to point toward a front office tank to get rid of snit. That’s my black helicopter take of the day...

[msstate7]

Braves got jerry Blevins from A's. Parsons optioned

[KOdawg1]

Minter blowing it away again today

[KOdawg1]

Luke Jackson for closer

[msstate7]

That was an ugly series... guess it shouldn't surprise me bc the dodgers break it off in the braves every time.

I'd be lying though if I said I'm not concerned. Negative run differential, and we just can't seem to stay above .500. I still think this can be a special year, but we have to have some guys step up.

Austin Riley is on fire at AAA. Here's his slash line... .315/.388/.685 (babip .321). As impressive as that line is, his k rate dropping to 20.1% and bb rate up to 10.8% may be even more impressive. All-the-sudden, that k rate makes him a serious option in Atlanta. Oh, and here's the kicker, Riley got his first start in LF last night; ender, you better start hitting!

Other guys in the farm I'm really tracking right now:

Pache - .319/.366./.540
Waters - .349/.383/.548

Both have really high babip and aren't walking much, but I do think they're mlb players.

Alex Jackson in a SSS is hitting again, .262/.311/.571. Hopefully this continues

[Really Clark?]

Ender is a notorious pre-all star below league average hitter then he is above league average after the break. .315 career average after the break

[msstate7]

Ender is a notorious pre-all star below league average hitter then he is above league average after the break. .315 career average after the break

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Riley gets a shot before the break. If Riley runs with it, ender may be resigned to 4th outfielder/def replacement

[Really Clark?]

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Riley gets a shot before the break. If Riley runs with it, ender may be resigned to 4th outfielder/def replacement

It wouldn’t surprise me and it looks like that’s what they are looking at with him getting some LF duty. I think it may start out as a platoon against LH pitchers then see how it goes from there. Camargo is not hitting like normal but Joyce and Culberson are hitting well for lefty/right options off the bench. I think Charlie probably should get more at bats. He is just a pro and hitting .375 in limited AB’s.

[msstate7]

It wouldn’t surprise me and it looks like that’s what they are looking at with him getting some LF duty. I think it may start out as a platoon against LH pitchers then see how it goes from there. Camargo is not hitting like normal but Joyce and Culberson are hitting well for lefty/right options off the bench. I think Charlie probably should get more at bats. He is just a pro and hitting .375 in limited AB’s.

Giants want an OF. If Riley looks serviceable in LF, could ender get us will Smith?

[Really Clark?]

Giants want an OF. If Riley looks serviceable in LF, could ender get us will Smith?

There will competition for him come trade deadline. Some teams (Phillies for one) may try to package a deal for him and Bumgardner.

[msstate7]

Braves are looking better now... 5-2 vs 2 winning teams since the dodgers punked us. Got another tough home series this weekend. Hopefully Luke Jackson and Newcomb can continue to anchor the pen till post draft; still think the braves go after Kimbrel.

How nervous are the Phillies about Harper? He's hitting .221 with just a .794 ops, and he's striking out at a whopping 30.7%. To be fair, his defense is much improved, and he's at 1.3 fWAR.

[MetEdDawg]

Shockingly we are only 1.5 games behind the Phillies.

I think if Riley continues to hit, either Ender or Donaldson are gone. At some point the organization will have to realize that we need pieces and that from a hitting and fielding perspective, we have the tools to compete. So either you keep Riley in LF and you try to trade Ender, or you trade Donaldson and you stick Riley at 3B and let Camargo play more.

I'm in the trade Ender for a couple bullpen arms mode right now, but I don't think Ender has enough market value right now for us to command a decent return. Luke Jackson has looked good. But we have serious left handed reliever problem right now. Maybe Newcomb can help that, but Venters, Minter, and Biddle are worthless to the organization at this point. So we are going to need another lefty in the bullpen.

[shoeless joe]

Shockingly we are only 1.5 games behind the Phillies.

I think if Riley continues to hit, either Ender or Donaldson are gone. At some point the organization will have to realize that we need pieces and that from a hitting and fielding perspective, we have the tools to compete. So either you keep Riley in LF and you try to trade Ender, or you trade Donaldson and you stick Riley at 3B and let Camargo play more.

I'm in the trade Ender for a couple bullpen arms mode right now, but I don't think Ender has enough market value right now for us to command a decent return. Luke Jackson has looked good. But we have serious left handed reliever problem right now. Maybe Newcomb can help that, but Venters, Minter, and Biddle are worthless to the organization at this point. So we are going to need another lefty in the bullpen.

Donaldson = offense and defense
Ender = defense

I’d trade Ender if either but that really weakens the overal D for the team

[msstate7]

Donaldson = offense and defense
Ender = defense

I’d trade Ender if either but that really weakens the overal D for the team

Just keep ender. We are screwed right now if acuna gets hurt... no backup cf