Thoughts moving forward...

[CadaverDawg]

Well, since Coach likes to label anybody that is tired of watching doormats pass us by as "Little brother", I've decided that those of us that don't accept status quo can have a different mindset going forward.

First of all, I see "little brother" as someone who knows his role and can accept when his program is stagnant or going in reverse. Instead of fighting it or demanding progress, "little brother" shuts up and says "woe is me, we are MSU we shouldn't demand anything more". So sorry coach, but little brother in this case is you that accepts his role. Keep in mind, those of us pissed off, are not pissed off ONLY because Ole miss beat LSU....it is because 4 teams on our level or worse in the sec accomplished something we can't yesterday. And don't give me that horseshit about something we did 3-4 years ago. 3-4 years is a decade in the sEC.

Also, "little brother" would demand less and therefore expect less. Well, I'm tired of low expectations. Mizzou, Tennessee, Vandy, and ole miss, all expected to win yesterday against better teams, so that's what I'm expecting going forward. No more griping about what we haven't done, instead start demanding we improve too.

I am now expecting us to beat One of the following:

South Carolina
A&M
Alabama

And I am demanding we win the following:

Kentucky
Arkansas
Ole miss

Anything below 4 more wins and I want a coaching change. Because we will be stagnant and/or moving downhill.

What some of you don't realize is that sitting still is moving backwards in this conference. Yesterday showed that perennial doormats are improving in this conference, so being ok with 6 wins is no longer going to cut it, unless we want to be dead last in the conference. As of today, we are just above Arkansas and Kentucky. We will have a chance to improve drastically by accomplishing the goals I listed above. Anything less is unacceptable, because everyone is proving that winning in this league is not as hard as we act like it is. And gone are the days of marking LSU, Bama, and A&M a loss. That's a "little brother" mentality. We can compete just like everyone else in this league so it's time we start expecting and demanding it.

This is not a thread to start a debate, just a thread to those others that are tired of the product we are putting on the field. We can have higher expectations. So keep cheering your asses off, and let's not complain anymore about things that happened in the past, and let's hope that the team and coach can accomplish 7 wins. I don't think that is expecting too much, and anybody that does must have a little brother mentality.

[bluelightstar]

Thank you for this

[ShotgunDawg]

I can agree with this Cadaver. You set forth expectations, didn't bitch, and didn't dwell on things in the past. You typically make very good points when you aren't an emotional dumpster fire.

Very good write up, and I as well don't want to settle either. I want higher expectations as well, but realize that firing everyone mid-season isn't the way to it.

Little Brother is what happened on the board last night, not the fact that you want higher expectations. What you said today should Bowling Green, Ok State, and Auburn. Not right after OM pulls off a big win.

[Todd4State]

I can agree with this Cadaver. You set forth expectations, didn't bitch, and didn't dwell on things in the past. You typically make very good points when you aren't an emotional dumpster fire.

Very good write up, and I as well don't want to settle either. I want higher expectations as well, but realize that firing everyone mid-season isn't the way to it.

Has any really said this? I've seen plenty of people suggest making changes after the season- or at least that's how I took it.

[CadaverDawg]

I can agree with this Cadaver. You set forth expectations, didn't bitch, and didn't dwell on things in the past. You typically make very good points when you aren't an emotional dumpster fire.

Very good write up, and I as well don't want to settle either. I want higher expectations as well, but realize that firing everyone mid-season isn't the way to it.

Little Brother is what happened on the board last night, not the fact that you want higher expectations. What you said today should Bowling Green, Ok State, and Auburn. Not right after OM pulls off a big win.

I never said anything about a midseason fire. Not sure where you pulled that.

And quit telling me what i meant or what I Should have done. I meant what I said and it wasnt little brother. If you cant read abd comprehend thats not my problem...but i dont need you putting words in mouth or telling me what i need to do. Agree or disagree, and leave it at that.

[ShotgunDawg]

Has any really said this? I've seen plenty of people suggest making changes after the season- or at least that's how I took it.

Thats the way it comes across. If not, then why not wait to say it after the season?

[CadaverDawg]

Thats the way it comes across. If not, then why not wait to say it after the season?

Because it's a message board. You dont get to decide when people get to say things. Your piwer trip is getting old. I liked your posts and agreed with you a lot until you went all Genespage Hall Monitor the last week. Not sure what happened, but I wish they would go back to how you WERE. Not trying to be an ass. I know i get extreme sonetimes, but I still dont need an editor on a damn message board.

[ShotgunDawg]

Because it's a message board. You dont get to decide when people get to say things. Your piwer trip is getting old. I liked your posts and agreed with you a lot until you went all Genespage Hall Monitor the last week. Not sure what happened, but I wish they would go back to how you WERE. Not trying to be an ass. I know i get extreme sonetimes, but I still dont need an editor on a damn message board.

You are an emotional dumpster fire Cadaver and I can't respect people that don't have the ability to make objective rational decisions and use logic. I gave you credit for your post this morning. You are a good poster and make very good points when you aren't emotional.

I'm objective and look at things for what they are. I'm am not a Genespage skittles and candy corn poster. We have issues that need to get fixed, but your crying wolf. When you are unobjective, emotional, and make statements right after your rival pulls an upset, then it's hard for people to take you seriously, even when your right.

NOW, I'll go back to being the same ole Shotgun who makes good well thought out posts, and I'll stop being a hall monitor. We'll call a truce on this thing, because I truly believe we both want the same thing and think we have the best interest of MSU at heart.

That being said, you know where I stand.

[msstate7]

When i said most of our fan base wanted Dan gone Monday, you said you didnt want him gone. So on a bye week, you've changed your mind?

[CadaverDawg]

When i said most of our fan base wanted Dan gone Monday, you said you didnt want him gone. So on a bye week, you've changed your mind?

Did you read? I said IF goals arent met. Why is that so hard to understand?

[EnterpriseDawg]

My feelings haven't changed since last night. I use to be labeled a "sunshine pumper," but after yesterday I've just had enough. Watching four new coaches obtaining what I have waited patiently for 4 1/2 years to have happen is sickening to me. I really don't care about what we haven't achieved in the past. I'm sure these kids these days don't either. What they do see are teams like OM playing with heart and putting an exciting product on the field. They also see us laying down to elite teams and struggling to teams like BG. The worse feeling is wondering if we will handle this like Jackie? You know, waiting till we hit rock bottom n'shit.

[Todd4State]

Thats the way it comes across. If not, then why not wait to say it after the season?

Why wait until after the season to say it? People are just giving their opinion based on a current observation. That opinion can certainly change if things start to get better as well.

[msstate7]

Did you read? I said IF goals arent met. Why is that so hard to understand?

So if Dan wins 3, we should fire him?

[CadaverDawg]

My feelings haven't changed since last night. I use to be labeled a "sunshine pumper," but after yesterday I've just had enough. Watching four new coaches obtaining what I have waited patiently for 4 1/2 years to have happen is sickening to me. I really don't care about what we haven't achieved in the past. I'm sure these kids these days don't either. What they do see are teams like OM playing with heart and putting an exciting product on the field. They also see us laying down to elite teams and struggling to teams like BG. The worse feeling is wondering if we will handle this like Jackie? You know, waiting till we hit rock bottom n'shit.

Yep.

And I want to restate for those that can't seem to understand. If Shotgun and Coach and others aren't ready to pull he trigger on Dan even if we win 4-5 games is year...fine. I respect your opinion. But don't be labeling those of us that actually think the program can do better, and that demand more from our coach than "we are happy to be 3-3", as "Little brother mentality" or "Closet Bears". Not only is that completely idiotic and does it sound ghey...it's also the furthest thing from the truth.

We just want to see our program progress. And it doesn't have to be wins and losses....it can be effort and on field coaching. If those don't improve and we can't beat a team better than Kentucky or Arkansas, IMO we should be seeking a replacement.

[CadaverDawg]

So if Dan wins 3, we should fire him?

3 more? Or 3 period?

[msstate7]

3 more? Or 3 period?

3 more. You said he should be required to beat 1 of USCe, aTm, or bama and beat the other 3.

[CadaverDawg]

Why wait until after the season to say it? People are just giving their opinion based on a current observation. That opinion can certainly change if things start to get better as well.

Exactly.

If we come out with some fire and really compete with South Carolina only to fall just short....I may change my mind to 6 wins. I just want to see the kind of effort it takes to beat good teams. I can forgive less talent, and I can forgive players making mistakes, but I can't forgive a coach with no fire and a team that doesn't play with max effort for 4 quarters.

[CadaverDawg]

3 more. You said he should be required to beat 1 of USCe, aTm, or bama and beat the other 3.

If the effort doesn't change, yes. If we play our asses off for 4 quarters and come up just short against those teams....I might feel differently. But if the effort stays as pitiful as it has been, I want to see 7 wins. After all, it would be "little brother" of me not to expect 7 wins from this talent, right? Especially if Dan is the coach you guys think he is.

[EnterpriseDawg]

Exactly.

If we come out with some fire and really compete with South Carolina only to fall just short....I may change my mind to 6 wins. I just want to see the kind of effort it takes to beat good teams. I can forgive less talent, and I can forgive players making mistakes, but I can't forgive a coach with no fire and a team that doesn't play with max effort for 4 quarters.

Thats pretty much how I feel. Just ready for the offense we were promised when we hired Dan.

[ShotgunDawg]

If Dan only wins 3-5 games, and we play like we did last season in those losses, then yes I would be on board for firing him. However, if we win 5 games with losses coming on hail marries or bad calls in close 4th quarter games, then no, I wouldn't be in favor of it.

The point is that we still have half our season to play, and we have shown FLASHES of being a pretty good team. This thing could go either way. I can see how we could win every game from here on out, except Bama, and I can see how we could lose most games from here on out.

Therefore, since the results are HIGHLY inconclusive at the point, I choose to try and support our team, in hopes that we play consistently and for 60 minutes like we have FLASHED the ability to do.

[CadaverDawg]

If Dan only wins 3-5 games, and we play like we did last season in those losses, then yes I would be on board for firing him. However, if we win 5 games with losses coming on hail marries or bad calls in close 4th quarter games, then no, I wouldn't be in favor of it.

The point is that we still have half our season to play, and we have shown FLASHES of being a pretty good team. This thing could go either way. I can see how we could win every game from here on out, except Bama, and I can see how we could lose most games from here on out.

Therefore, since the results are HIGHLY inconclusive at the point, I choose to try and support our team, in hopes that we play consistently and for 60 minutes like we have FLASHED the ability to do.

We all support the team. And I agree that it could go either way. Hopefully we start seeing more consistency and effort for 4 quarters.

[ShotgunDawg]

We all support the team. And I agree that it could go either way. Hopefully we start seeing more consistency and effort for 4 quarters.

agree

[RougeDawg]

Most of you are missing the forest for the trees.

The main issue most of us have is the way we play. The way our players and coaches look like they don't give a ****. The way they are going through the motions more times than not. As we saw yesterday, the team with less talent can win if they play with intensity. I'd say we have as much talent as those teams that won yesterday. That is what is frustrating for us. I could give two shits who beats who, but when you continually see our coach do less with more, something has to change. Either Dan turn it around, or Strick turn it around for him. Problem is, I don't think Strick has the balls to tell Dan what to do.

[CadaverDawg]

Most of you are missing the forest for the trees.

The main issue most of us have is the way we play. The way our players and coaches look like they don't give a ****. The way they are going through the motions more times than not. As we saw yesterday, the team with less talent can win if they play with intensity. I'd say we have as much talent as those teams that won yesterday. That is what is frustrating for us. I could give two shits who beats who, but when you continually see our coach do less with more, something has to change. Either Dan turn it around, or Strick turn it around for him. Problem is, I don't think Strick has the balls to tell Dan what to do.

Yep.

[msstate7]

Most of you are missing the forest for the trees.

The main issue most of us have is the way we play. The way our players and coaches look like they don't give a ****. The way they are going through the motions more times than not. As we saw yesterday, the team with less talent can win if they play with intensity. I'd say we have as much talent as those teams that won yesterday. That is what is frustrating for us. I could give two shits who beats who, but when you continually see our coach do less with more, something has to change. Either Dan turn it around, or Strick turn it around for him. Problem is, I don't think Strick has the balls to tell Dan what to do.

Well for the lesser teams to win, they need help. OM and vandy can play hard they can, but if lsu plays well and Georgia's healthy it wouldn't matter. I agree we need to play harder at times, but to say that's why we lose to bama, lsu, etc isn't true. We haven't got a good team on their off day. For whatever reason everyone plays like it's the Super Bowl against us

[sleepy dawg]

I never said anything about a midseason fire. Not sure where you pulled that.

And quit telling me what i meant or what I Should have done. I meant what I said and it wasnt little brother. If you cant read abd comprehend thats not my problem...but i dont need you putting words in mouth or telling me what i need to do. Agree or disagree, and leave it at that.

I don't believe you... I don't think the chances are good this opportunity presents itself, however, if we play good against SC and lose, I still don't think you will back down from your soapbox.

No matter how we lose, you will still be pissed about Dan not getting it done in the end.

[Percho]

I would just like to see Dan for a whole game stomping up and down the sidelines like he did earlier. It is his job to fire up the football team. If he shows he if fired up the fans will also be fired up and the team will be fired up. As in the old days he should address the stadium before the game.

[CadaverDawg]

I don't believe you... I don't think the chances are good this opportunity presents itself, however, if we play good against SC and lose, I still don't think you will back down from your soapbox.

No matter how we lose, you will still be pissed about Dan not getting it done in the end.

Well, then you're wrong. You must not have seen my posts in the past, because I am always the first to admit when I'm wrong or when someone steps up when I thought they wouldn't. Sorry you don't believe that, but hopefully you'll find out.

You can ask anybody on this board, and they may think I say stupid or emotional stuff at times, but I ALWAYS admit if I'm wrong and I am ALWAYS 100% passionate and in support of my Bulldogs.

[CadaverDawg]

Well for the lesser teams to win, they need help. OM and vandy can play hard they can, but if lsu plays well and Georgia's healthy it wouldn't matter. I agree we need to play harder at times, but to say that's why we lose to bama, lsu, etc isn't true. We haven't got a good team on their off day. For whatever reason everyone plays like it's the Super Bowl against us

What about Ole miss missing half of their team to injuries last night? Shouldn't that offset LSU not bringing their A game?

What about Vandy losing their QB before making their 17 point comeback? Shouldn't that offset some of UgA's injuries?

I'm tired of the excuses. Those teams are getting it done, and we aren't. Period. I'm ready for us to get it done, whether it be due to injuries or not.

I see what you're saying, I do...but you can't use one teams injuries as an excuse but not bring up the team that upset them having big time injuries as well, IMO.

[msstate7]

What about Ole miss missing half of their team to injuries last night? Shouldn't that offset LSU not bringing their A game?

What about Vandy losing their QB before making their 17 point comeback? Shouldn't that offset some of UgA's injuries?

I'm tired of the excuses. Those teams are getting it done, and we aren't. Period. I'm ready for us to get it done, whether it be due to injuries or not.

I see what you're saying, I do...but you can't use one teams injuries as an excuse but not bring up the team that upset them having big time injuries as well, IMO.

Vandy qb = gurley, Marshall, and those wr's?

OM definitely has injury issues which looking back on it probably helped them. Lsu players looking at injury report decided to half step on the 4th straight tough game and it cost them. I'm not trying to discount OM's very nice win; but if lsu brings their a game, lsu wins no matter what OM does.

I still think the stars will align this year for us to upset a better team.

[CadaverDawg]

Vandy qb = gurley, Marshall, and those WR's?

I still think the stars will align this year for us to upset a better team.

To answer your first question...yes, pretty much. Georgia has better players than Vandy at every position, and it isnt even close. Georgia was up by 14 late. They were beating Vandy the whole game without Gurley and Marshall and the WR's, and should have won without them. Vandy out coached and out hustled Georgia in the 4th to win. We never even show up in the 4th.

As for your second part. I agree. I think we can beat USC, And A&M. We'll see. I hope Dan can turn it around. We need our current staff to turn it around and get to a bowl game.

[MarketingBully01]

He did against Bowling Green and was pissed off at the coaches. He showed a lot of fire in that game for the most part. That is one reason I am thinking we will finish 4-2 down the stretch. I think we will get most of our issues fixed. The biggest thing I am worried about though is place kicking. In order for us to pull off an upset you guys are clamoring about we need a solid kicking game. I am not sure Bell can get it done.

[MarketingBully01]

Vandy's QB that was injured is one of the worst in the conference so by him being injured probably made them better. LSU was not injured and had no major injuries. That loss is on the mad hatter. There is no way LSU should have lost last night. You are right though. Ole Miss has a heck of a lot of injuries that IMO will have a huge impact on the rest of their season as well.

[Todd4State]

Most of you are missing the forest for the trees.

The main issue most of us have is the way we play. The way our players and coaches look like they don't give a ****. The way they are going through the motions more times than not. As we saw yesterday, the team with less talent can win if they play with intensity. I'd say we have as much talent as those teams that won yesterday. That is what is frustrating for us. I could give two shits who beats who, but when you continually see our coach do less with more, something has to change. Either Dan turn it around, or Strick turn it around for him. Problem is, I don't think Strick has the balls to tell Dan what to do.

I feel the same way you do about our coaching staff and our team. I don't ask to win every game. I do expect our coaches to care and our players to play hard regardless. If we do that, everything else will take care of itself.

I do think that Stricklin would fire Dan if he has to. As far as telling Dan what to do- I feel like it shouldn't be neccessary to tell a coach what to do when it comes to effort issues. If someone has to tell them, it's probably best to cut bait.

[ShotgunDawg]

I feel the same way you do about our coaching staff and our team. I don't ask to win every game. I do expect our coaches to care and our players to play hard regardless. If we do that, everything else will take care of itself.

I do think that Stricklin would fire Dan if he has to. As far as telling Dan what to do- I feel like it shouldn't be neccessary to tell a coach what to do when it comes to effort issues. If someone has to tell them, it's probably best to cut bait.

Todd,

I completely agree with what you have said in the this post. However, the problem is that every says, "I just want us to compete and play with relentless effort" and when we lose a game, everyone automatically blames the loss on a lack of effort.

By my estimation, effort has only been a problem in one of our games this season, and thats Bowling Green

Against OK State, we had a horrible passive game plan that lacked aggressiveness and thus made our effort look bad, when in fact, it was not.

Against Auburn, our effort was fine, but we had a freshman QB making his first start in the SEC on the road.

Against LSU, We played our asses off till Bell broke our momentum. If you want to claim that the 4th quarter against LSU lacked effort and energy, then I'm OK and can't argue, but for most of the game we played with excellent effort.

We don't lose every game because of a lack of effort, but thats seems to what everyone believe is the problem every time.

[CadaverDawg]

Todd,

I completely agree with what you have said in the this post. However, the problem is that every says, "I just want us to compete and play with relentless effort" and when we lose a game, everyone automatically blames the loss on a lack of effort.

By my estimation, effort has only been a problem in one of our games this season, and thats Bowling Green

Against OK State, we had a horrible passive game plan that lacked aggressiveness and thus made our effort look bad, when in fact, it was not.

Against Auburn, our effort was fine, but we had a freshman QB making his first start in the SEC on the road.

Against LSU, We played our asses off till Bell broke our momentum. If you want to claim that the 4th quarter against LSU lacked effort and energy, then I'm OK and can't argue, but for most of the game we played with excellent effort.

We don't lose every game because of a lack of effort, but thats seems to what everyone believe is the problem every time.

Our team and coaching staff has failed to show up in the 4th quarter this year (except Alcorn and Troy). I think that is what everyone is referring to. Mullen quit against Auburn, and the team quit against LSU. We are 0-2 in the SEC. We also showed a lack of effort against BG.

[Dawg61]

My biggest problem with all of this is that everyone feels safe to say "fire Dan" because they just automatically assume that the next coach is Mark Hudspeth. But what if he doesn't take the job? Consider this when you are so quick to pull the trigger. Coaching searches are never guarantees. Something unexpected could happen that takes Hud out of the mix. Now you are totally ****ed.

[Op4isabitch]

I am now expecting us to beat One of the following:

South Carolina
A&M
Alabama

And I am demanding we win the following:

Kentucky
Arkansas
Ole miss

Anything below 4 more wins and I want a coaching change.

/l\ This x 100
l
l

[preachermatt83]

very good post cadaver!

[BulldogBear]

My biggest problem with all of this is that everyone feels safe to say "fire Dan" because they just automatically assume that the next coach is Mark Hudspeth. But what if he doesn't take the job? Consider this when you are so quick to pull the trigger. Coaching searches are never guarantees. Something unexpected could happen that takes Hud out of the mix. Now you are totally ****ed.

You also don't wanna pull a Cutcliffe-like firing as the Rebels did and get stuck with an Eddie O. It sends the wrong message to job candidates when your coach turns your program around and takes (although currently plateaued perhaps) it to another level from the dumpster fire it was and still gets fired because they come in just under .500 after three straight bowls and struggling to beat AP top 10 SEC programs. I'm as frustrated as anyone but I don't want to send that message. "Come to State! Lose to Bama a couple of times. Go F*ck yourself!" ...I don't want that job if I'm a coach

[Barking 13]

I think the frustration lies within the fact we are a better team (or has the potential to be) than what is shown.... and it's never just one thing.. never has been. It always seems to be one little key ingredient that is missing. Always one step from making or breaking the big play. You know, like being in an opposing QB's face and he throws a 40 yd completion for a TD, instead of a sack. Having a wide open receiver in the end zone and he drops the ball. Fumbling out of the end zone. Uncalled for personal fouls. 3rd & 2 and someone jumps the snap. DB falls down on a big pass play, missing a 25 yd field goal, etc. on and on... always.... Then there's the goofy assed play calls. You've been running the ball this drive 4 yds a carry, get to the 20 and it's 3rd and 1 or 2 and you want to get cute and try to throw a pass. Now it's 4th and 2 and your kicker can't hit the FG.. Doesn't matter, by now you're down 14 anyway...

[msstate7]

I think the frustration lies within the fact we are a better team (or has the potential to be) than what is shown.... and it's never just one thing.. never has been. It always seems to be one little key ingredient that is missing. Always one step from making or breaking the big play. You know, like being in an opposing QB's face and he throws a 40 yd completion for a TD, instead of a sack. Having a wide open receiver in the end zone and he drops the ball. Fumbling out of the end zone. Uncalled for personal fouls. 3rd & 2 and someone jumps the snap. DB falls down on a big pass play, missing a 25 yd field goal, etc. on and on... always....

Sacking Met, but grabbing the facemask on lsu's first drive. That was a huge penalty...

[smootness]

After all, it would be "little brother" of me not to expect 7 wins from this talent, right?

I think if we're going to have this discussion, we need to truly figure out where the issues are. We talk about how much talent this team has, but let's look at it objectively. I'm going to use Scout's rankings (I know some may have an issue with them, but it seems as good as any to pinpoint basically where we are now).

The classes contributing to this year, by and large, are 2010-2012, and the majority of the upperclassmen are from the 2010 and 2011 classes right now. We do have some left from the very good 2009 class, but there are only 5 still on the roster (Russell, Perkins, Skinner, Gabe Jackson, and Whitley); some talent, but that class is not contributing in a major way to our team anymore.

The 2010 class was ranked 38th in the country, behind 11 current SEC programs. The highest rated guys from that class were Wells, Damien Robinson, and Eulls; Wells is legit, the other two haven't lived up to their billing. The 2011 class was ranked 45th, behind 10 current SEC programs. The highest rated players from that class were Arrington and Morrow; they haven't yet contributed a whole lot.

Those two classes are where the majority of our difference-makers should be coming from, and there just wasn't much there. The 2012 class was ranked 18th, behind 6 current SEC programs, and we're already starting to see a lot of contribution from that class; and we're seeing some from 2013 already as well (Jones, Wilson, Ross).

I think Mullen had an issue transitioning in his recruiting; I think he had to build up some relationships while Nutt had already established his inside the state, and I think he had to come to the realization that recruiting at State is different than at UF. At UF, players line up to play there, and you choose who you want. At State, you have to go get anybody you want. He seems to have figured it out to some degree and we are now seeing consistently good classes. We still need to improve in order to really take the next step, but we are now bringing in good enough talent to compete in the SEC. In 2010 and 2011, we didn't.

Well, I think those classes are still holding us back. Do we truly have the talent to expect 7 wins or more in the SEC? I don't know about that.

Ultimately everything comes back to the head coach, but as I said, I think we have made serious strides in correcting some of the initial recruiting flaws, and we're no longer having to stockpile classes with reaches. I'm not saying this should mean that we have to keep Mullen, I'm just saying that it's something to think about.

We have basically only had Russell at QB as a guy who could really go out there and start the last couple of years, and he doesn't fit what Mullen wants to do. Personally, I think we should see what we become when Dak takes over and we get QBs who truly fit the system coming in consistently, and when the last couple of classes develop into our upperclassmen and leaders. I think we'll see a different team.

[FFF]

Well for the lesser teams to win, they need help. OM and vandy can play hard they can, but if lsu plays well and Georgia's healthy it wouldn't matter. I agree we need to play harder at times, but to say that's why we lose to bama, lsu, etc isn't true. We haven't got a good team on their off day. For whatever reason everyone plays like it's the Super Bowl against us

They get that help because they play with tremendous intensity an take advantage of the "arbitrage" opportunities they get. The good teams mess up, too, but OM an vandy punished them for their screwups... We tend to give the ball right back with no harm done. You get free opportunities, you better be ready to haul ass and take advantage. We don't do that well at all.

Then defensive brain farts lead to scores which gives the opponent even more confidence.

It's the old saying "kick em while they are down." You put a different level of pressure on a team when you can capitalize on their mistakes. Thats what ole miss did on Saturday that we didn't and you see the difference in the results.

[FlabLoser]

I think the frustration lies within the fact we are a better team (or has the potential to be) than what is shown.... and it's never just one thing.. never has been. It always seems to be one little key ingredient that is missing. Always one step from making or breaking the big play. You know, like being in an opposing QB's face and he throws a 40 yd completion for a TD, instead of a sack. Having a wide open receiver in the end zone and he drops the ball. Fumbling out of the end zone. Uncalled for personal fouls. 3rd & 2 and someone jumps the snap. DB falls down on a big pass play, missing a 25 yd field goal, etc. on and on... always.... Then there's the goofy assed play calls. You've been running the ball this drive 4 yds a carry, get to the 20 and it's 3rd and 1 or 2 and you want to get cute and try to throw a pass. Now it's 4th and 2 and your kicker can't hit the FG.. Doesn't matter, by now you're down 14 anyway...

1980-something. The wind blows back a would-be game-winning FG in the Egg Bowl.

1991 @ Bama, down 13-7, we have 1st & goal from Bama 1 yard line at the end of the game. We jump offsides, then throw an interception on the next play. Bama finished that season 11-1. We finished 7-5.

1992 @ Ole Miss. We need a TD to come back. End of the game, we get to run like 12 plays inside the Ole Miss's 10 yard line, some inside the 5 yard line, and we come up with nothing. Ole Miss wins.

1997 Ole Miss in Starkville. End of the game, Ole Miss scores a TD to come within 1, goes for 2, makes it. Ole Miss wins.

1998 SEC Championship game. We have a 4th quarter lead on the national champs. Blow coverage on 1 play, and Tennessee scores. UT wins. Although it was certainly nice just to be in that game.

2002 @ Oregon. Kevin Fant is suspended less than 24 hours before the season opening kickoff.

2009 LSU in Starkville. End of the game. Need a TD and have a few plays inside the 5 yard line. Tyson Lee stopped at the goal then gets a pass to an open receiver batted down in the endzone. LSU wins.

2010 Cam Newton's Auburn in Starkville. Need a TD at the end, and Berry drops a wide open pass at the 5 yard line. Auburn wins. We could have avenged Camgate and spoiled their championship season.

2010 a highly ranked Arkansas in Starkville. Ballard fumbled a would-be winning TD through the endzone. Arkansas wins in double OT.



Happy Monday.

[DanDority]

Well, since Coach likes to label anybody that is tired of watching doormats pass us by as "Little brother", I've decided that those of us that don't accept status quo can have a different mindset going forward.

First of all, I see "little brother" as someone who knows his role and can accept when his program is stagnant or going in reverse. Instead of fighting it or demanding progress, "little brother" shuts up and says "woe is me, we are MSU we shouldn't demand anything more". So sorry coach, but little brother in this case is you that accepts his role. Keep in mind, those of us pissed off, are not pissed off ONLY because Ole miss beat LSU....it is because 4 teams on our level or worse in the sec accomplished something we can't yesterday. And don't give me that horseshit about something we did 3-4 years ago. 3-4 years is a decade in the sEC.

Also, "little brother" would demand less and therefore expect less. Well, I'm tired of low expectations. Mizzou, Tennessee, Vandy, and ole miss, all expected to win yesterday against better teams, so that's what I'm expecting going forward. No more griping about what we haven't done, instead start demanding we improve too.

I am now expecting us to beat One of the following:

South Carolina
A&M
Alabama

And I am demanding we win the following:

Kentucky
Arkansas
Ole miss

Anything below 4 more wins and I want a coaching change. Because we will be stagnant and/or moving downhill.

What some of you don't realize is that sitting still is moving backwards in this conference. Yesterday showed that perennial doormats are improving in this conference, so being ok with 6 wins is no longer going to cut it, unless we want to be dead last in the conference. As of today, we are just above Arkansas and Kentucky. We will have a chance to improve drastically by accomplishing the goals I listed above. Anything less is unacceptable, because everyone is proving that winning in this league is not as hard as we act like it is. And gone are the days of marking LSU, Bama, and A&M a loss. That's a "little brother" mentality. We can compete just like everyone else in this league so it's time we start expecting and demanding it.

This is not a thread to start a debate, just a thread to those others that are tired of the product we are putting on the field. We can have higher expectations. So keep cheering your asses off, and let's not complain anymore about things that happened in the past, and let's hope that the team and coach can accomplish 7 wins. I don't think that is expecting too much, and anybody that does must have a little brother mentality.

AMEN!AMEN!AMEN!

[Barking 13]

1980-something. The wind blows back a would-be game-winning FG in the Egg Bowl.

1991 @ Bama, down 13-7, we have 1st & goal from Bama 1 yard line at the end of the game. We jump offsides, then throw an interception on the next play. Bama finished that season 11-1. We finished 7-5.

1992 @ Ole Miss. We need a TD to come back. End of the game, we get to run like 12 plays inside the Ole Miss's 10 yard line, some inside the 5 yard line, and we come up with nothing. Ole Miss wins.

1997 Ole Miss in Starkville. End of the game, Ole Miss scores a TD to come within 1, goes for 2, makes it. Ole Miss wins.

1998 SEC Championship game. We have a 4th quarter lead on the national champs. Blow coverage on 1 play, and Tennessee scores. UT wins. Although it was certainly nice just to be in that game.

2002 @ Oregon. Kevin Fant is suspended less than 24 hours before the season opening kickoff.

2009 LSU in Starkville. End of the game. Need a TD and have a few plays inside the 5 yard line. Tyson Lee stopped at the goal then gets a pass to an open receiver batted down in the endzone. LSU wins.

2010 Cam Newton's Auburn in Starkville. Need a TD at the end, and Berry drops a wide open pass at the 5 yard line. Auburn wins. We could have avenged Camgate and spoiled their championship season.

2010 a highly ranked Arkansas in Starkville. Ballard fumbled a would-be winning TD through the endzone. Arkansas wins in double OT.



Happy Monday.

Thanks Flab.. Those are some I'm talking about, but my CRS disease forbids the dates... wasn't that Artie Cosby on the blowback or the one that hit the upright and bounced back?

[Bubb Rubb]

Yep.

And I want to restate for those that can't seem to understand. If Shotgun and Coach and others aren't ready to pull he trigger on Dan even if we win 4-5 games is year...fine. I respect your opinion. But don't be labeling those of us that actually think the program can do better, and that demand more from our coach than "we are happy to be 3-3", as "Little brother mentality" or "Closet Bears". Not only is that completely idiotic and does it sound ghey...it's also the furthest thing from the truth.

We just want to see our program progress. And it doesn't have to be wins and losses....it can be effort and on field coaching. If those don't improve and we can't beat a team better than Kentucky or Arkansas, IMO we should be seeking a replacement.

I get the frustration. I'm frustrated too. I also think there's too much emotion. What Ole Miss did on Saturday has nothing to do with US. You can say it did, but that's emotion. It's all about jealousy over the fact that Ole Miss (and to a lesser extent Vandy, Auburn, Tennessee, and Missouri) did what we haven't been able to do. Personally, I think it's all revisionist history. We bat down one pass on that last drive against Auburn, or we upset one team down the road this season, and we aren't having any of these conversations. There's too much emotion week to week over how we played, or who we played at QB, or even more embarrassingly, what Ole Miss did. Bottom line is none of that stuff matters. We will line up Thursday night and try to get our 4th win. And then we'll line up against USCe and try to get our fifth win. If we don't win games, the problem will take care of itself. But all of this calling for Dan's head, and anointing Hud, is embarrassing. We all made fun of Auburn when their AD met secretly with Petrino while they had a coach....but so many of us are wanting the same thing. We have a coach, he's had some success (and yes, I consider his wins early on signature wins), and he's done something here that has never been done before. I think it's time we stop eating our own and start supporting our football program, whomever the coach, and whomever the quarterback is. If he doesn't do the job, it will be addressed in the offseason. If Hud comes in, I'll be his biggest supporter. But for now, everyone just needs to freaking relax and stop getting their panties in a bunch because of what Ole Miss did on Saturday. That is still the same team that needed an answered prayer to beat Vandy.

[slickdawg]

I get the frustration. I'm frustrated too. I also think there's too much emotion. What Ole Miss did on Saturday has nothing to do with US. You can say it did, but that's emotion. It's all about jealousy over the fact that Ole Miss (and to a lesser extent Vandy, Auburn, Tennessee, and Missouri) did what we haven't been able to do. Personally, I think it's all revisionist history. We bat down one pass on that last drive against Auburn, or we upset one team down the road this season, and we aren't having any of these conversations. There's too much emotion week to week over how we played, or who we played at QB, or even more embarrassingly, what Ole Miss did. Bottom line is none of that stuff matters. We will line up Thursday night and try to get our 4th win. And then we'll line up against USCe and try to get our fifth win. If we don't win games, the problem will take care of itself. But all of this calling for Dan's head, and anointing Hud, is embarrassing. We all made fun of Auburn when their AD met secretly with Petrino while they had a coach....but so many of us are wanting the same thing. We have a coach, he's had some success (and yes, I consider his wins early on signature wins), and he's done something here that has never been done before. I think it's time we stop eating our own and start supporting our football program, whomever the coach, and whomever the quarterback is. If he doesn't do the job, it will be addressed in the offseason. If Hud comes in, I'll be his biggest supporter. But for now, everyone just needs to freaking relax and stop getting their panties in a bunch because of what Ole Miss did on Saturday. That is still the same team that needed an answered prayer to beat Vandy.

Well said my brother.