How Big Is The Loss Of Nick W

[confucius say]

If he doesn't make it back here down the stretch? Obviously we go from an 8 man rotation to 7 (not including Feazell), so it hurts depth and foul trouble becomes huge. But does it prevent you from thinking we can make a sweet 16 run if you thought we could do so with Nick?

[mstatefan91]

We don't know how long Nick will be out so I assume this is hypothetical? Unless something has come out that I'm not aware of

[StarkVegasSteve]

If he's not back by tournament time we're in trouble. I personally think we see him back within the next week. Lamar's "indefinite" suspension lasted about that long last year.

[confucius say]

We don't know how long Nick will be out so I assume this is hypothetical? Unless something has come out that I'm not aware of

It is hypothetical.

[sleepy dawg]

I wouldn't call it major, but it's a big loss. Nick is a very solid contributor, and we don't have great depth to just replace him without losing a step.

[BB30]

Obviously it hurts depth and I think it hurts us on defense as well. T Carter has played some solid defense but he has struggled at times with more physical players simply due to his size. That is where I think you see it hurt us the most is on defense. I doubt he is out for the season though personally. We have several on here that like to jump the gun to try and be the first to break it which is unfortunate. If the University doesn't know everything yet then there is absolutely zero chance anyone on here knows what the outcome will be.

[trob115]

He defense will be hard to replace.

He was practicing with the team today, FWIW

[chef dixon]

Depends on what your goals of the season are. I just want to see us in the dance so I am hopeful not that big in that it keeps us from making it. Not sure having Nick or not changes our run in the tournament with any certainty.

[Dawg61]

It'll hurt from a depth stand point more over the course of the year than it will in an individual game. One game with 7 guys isn't a big deal but play the last 15 games with 7 guys and it starts to wear on everyone. Nick is a great player so it hurts just not having his great play on the court and he's a great defensive player but I think that only hurts us when Tyson is running 2 guard. Tyson at the PG position doesn't hurt us as much defensively because he's longer than most PGs. Lamar and Nick as the two guards is better defensively than Lamar and Tyson but Tyson and Q as the two guards is better defensively than Lamar and Nick. We went on that 23-1 run vs Arkansas with Tyson, Q, Woodard, Perry and Ado as the five on the court. This is a very long and athletic starting 5 and I am starting to think is our best 5 with Lamar and Holman subbing in. Peters won't like it though I'm guessing.

[dawgday166]

It'll hurt from a depth stand point more over the course of the year than it will in an individual game. One game with 7 guys isn't a big deal but play the last 15 games with 7 guys and it starts to wear on everyone. Nick is a great player so it hurts just not having his great play on the court and he's a great defensive player but I think that only hurts us when Tyson is running 2 guard. Tyson at the PG position doesn't hurt us as much defensively because he's longer than most PGs. Lamar and Nick as the two guards is better defensively than Lamar and Tyson but Tyson and Q as the two guards is better defensively than Lamar and Nick. We went on that 23-1 run vs Arkansas with Tyson, Q, Woodard, Perry and Ado as the five on the court. This is a very long and athletic starting 5 and I am starting to think is our best 5 with Lamar and Holman subbing in. Peters won't like it though I'm guessing.

Not sure yet ... would like to see more of those 5 in at same time. But I'm leaning this way too right now. Losing Nick would hurt depth tho. If you don't start Peters that would probably be the last of him ... he won't be able to take it I don't think. He's got a chip on his shoulder and not a good one IMO. Hell, the only reason I think he's still on the team is he thinks he's a potential NBA PG.

All this dribbling, dribbling, dribbling trying to break the defender down would be less. And to be honest, Q breaks defenders down better than Lamar does, can shoot with guys in his face and finish at the rim too.

[Political Hack]

We can't replace him defensively.

[dawgday166]

We can't replace him defensively.

I thought the other night we were as good or better than at any other time all year. Just one game tho. Would like to see more to be sure.

Depth wise we could use him for sure.

[Political Hack]

I thought the other night we were as good or better than at any other time all year. Just one game tho. Would like to see more to be sure.

Depth wise we could use him for sure.

Tyson getting more minutes is a good thing, but we can't match up defensively with teams like LSU without Nick.

[Ari Gold]

We can't replace him defensively.

Exacatly.. and he is good offensively as well.
it’s a huge loss every game he is out...

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Loss:
Depth
On the ball defense
Mid range jumper
Ball handling

Not a loss:
3 point shooting

[KOdawg1]

It's a loss. Anyone trying to spin it differently is incorrect.

[Dawg61]

Tyson getting more minutes is a good thing, but we can't match up defensively with teams like LSU without Nick.

We didn't stop Tremont Waters the first time we faced them with Nick and Waters ate up Lamar that game too. Peters had 0 points in 33 minutes. Nick had 8 in 36 minutes. Carter had 12 in 18 minutes. Maybe we are better with the longer lineup (Tyson at PG) vs LSU too.

[Dawg61]

Not a loss:
3 point shooting

Nick is actually shooting 3's at 38.5% compared to Tyson at 34%. Carter has shot twice as many though but Carter is a better scorer too and that's not meant to be a knock on Nick. Tyson is our second best scorer on the team. He had a 35 and 25 point game last year.

[HoopsDawg]

Loss:
Depth
On the ball defense
Mid range jumper
Ball handling

Not a loss:
3 point shooting

Personally, I think our best lineup is Nick, Carter, Q, Woodard, and Perry. But that's not a combo Howland uses very much.

[dawgday166]

We didn't stop Tremont Waters the first time we faced them with Nick and Waters ate up Lamar that game too. Peters had 0 points in 33 minutes. Nick had 8 in 36 minutes. Carter had 12 in 18 minutes. Maybe we are better with the longer lineup (Tyson at PG) vs LSU too.

I'm thinking this was the case too. Nick is pretty good on D, but not as good as everyone on here makes him out to be IMO. He was getting broke down by the LSU guard a few times too many IMO. Now I compare all MSU guards to Winsome Frazier. And Nick ain't that close.

Not saying Nick isn't a big asset ... cause he is. And losing him especially hurts depth. I'm not as high on his overall game tho as others on here are.

Just to add something here ... there's a difference in team defense vs individual defense too. Give me 5 guys that mesh well, rotate well, hustle, block out/rebound, finish on the breaks, and share the ball well.

ETA: It's still only 1 game tho (Arky) ... so I'd like to see more before feeling pretty definite on it all.

[chef dixon]

I'm thinking this was the case too. Nick is pretty good on D, but not as good as everyone on here makes him out to be IMO. He was getting broke down by the LSU guard a few times too many IMO. Now I compare all MSU guards to Winsome Frazier. And Nick ain't that close.

Not saying Nick isn't a big asset ... cause he is. And losing him especially hurts depth. I'm not as high on his overall game tho as others on here are.

Just to add something here ... there's a difference in team defense vs individual defense too. Give me 5 guys that mesh well, rotate well, hustle, block out/rebound, finish on the breaks, and share the ball well.

ETA: It's still only 1 game tho (Arky) ... so I'd like to see more before feeling pretty definite on it all.

Pretty much agree with this

[Ari Gold]

I'm thinking this was the case too. Nick is pretty good on D, but not as good as everyone on here makes him out to be IMO. He was getting broke down by the LSU guard a few times too many IMO. Now I compare all MSU guards to Winsome Frazier. And Nick ain't that close.

Not saying Nick isn't a big asset ... cause he is. And losing him especially hurts depth. I'm not as high on his overall game tho as others on here are.

Just to add something here ... there's a difference in team defense vs individual defense too. Give me 5 guys that mesh well, rotate well, hustle, block out/rebound, finish on the breaks, and share the ball well.

ETA: It's still only 1 game tho (Arky) ... so I'd like to see more before feeling pretty definite on it all.

Well Mason Jones ( Ark Guard) who would have prob been guarded by Nick had 30 sat night.
So anyone that doesnt think Nick is by far and away our best on the ball defnder is not very smart.

[dawgday166]

Well Mason Jones ( Ark Guard) who would have prob been guarded by Nick had 30 sat night.
So anyone that doesnt think Nick is by far and away our best on the ball defnder is not very smart.

How do we know that he wouldn't have had 20+ against Nick? We don't.

He might have considering:
Tyree for OM had 19 against us in 1st game in Starkville.
Waters for LSU had 26 in Starkville.

Who was guarding them? If Nick is our best I think I'd put him on those guys since they're guards. Howland probably did.

Had to go look those stats up ... couldn't remember cause I'm not following it that closely. And those were the ONLY 2 I looked at.

I never said he wasn't our best defender. I said he's not as good as everyone makes him out to be. I also said team defense matters more.

Now last year, I was impressed more with him. Maybe his off-the-court issues or whatever are affecting him some ... don't know. I haven't seen him play D this year like he did last year, or as Q has been playing in the last several games. I personally get a feeling both he and Peters have a little attitude problem ... could be wrong and don't know.

JJ Redick was averaging 20+ with several games over 30 when we played Duke in NCAA's in 2005. Frazier was coming off a broken ankle and at about 75 to 80% healthy (had only played 1 game I think ... maybe 2). Frazier held JJ to 11. I told everyone I discussed it with before the game Frazier would shut him down and ... he did. If Gary Ervin feeds him on the break late in that game instead trying to solo it himself, we probably win that game.

I'm not keeping up with the entire hoops landscape and not even watching all the SEC teams that much. I had to go look up the stats above. But from 1995 to 2006 I was a hoops junkie. Now maybe I'm "not very smart" but I probably won more basketball pools than you entered during that time.

I do know this when it comes to tourney play ... length matters at the guard positions. Actually at all positions but the guards can really give you an edge.

[RougeDawg]

If he's not back by tournament time we're in trouble. I personally think we see him back within the next week. Lamar's "indefinite" suspension lasted about that long last year.

Different situation. Hopefully it?s just a suspension.

[sleepy dawg]

How do we know that he wouldn't have had 20+ against Nick? We don't.

He might have considering:
Tyree for OM had 19 against us in 1st game in Starkville.
Waters for LSU had 26 in Starkville.

Who was guarding them? If Nick is our best I think I'd put him on those guys since they're guards. Howland probably did.

Had to go look those stats up ... couldn't remember cause I'm not following it that closely. And those were the ONLY 2 I looked at.

I never said he wasn't our best defender. I said he's not as good as everyone makes him out to be. I also said team defense matters more.

Now last year, I was impressed more with him. Maybe his off-the-court issues or whatever are affecting him some ... don't know. I haven't seen him play D this year like he did last year, or as Q has been playing in the last several games. I personally get a feeling both he and Peters have a little attitude problem ... could be wrong and don't know.

JJ Redick was averaging 20+ with several games over 30 when we played Duke in NCAA's in 2005. Frazier was coming off a broken ankle and at about 75 to 80% healthy (had only played 1 game I think ... maybe 2). Frazier held JJ to 11. I told everyone I discussed it with before the game Frazier would shut him down and ... he did. If Gary Ervin feeds him on the break late in that game instead trying to solo it himself, we probably win that game.

I'm not keeping up with the entire hoops landscape and not even watching all the SEC teams that much. I had to go look up the stats above. But from 1995 to 2006 I was a hoops junkie. Now maybe I'm "not very smart" but I probably won more basketball pools than you entered during that time.

I do know this when it comes to tourney play ... length matters at the guard positions. Actually at all positions but the guards can really give you an edge.

I agree with your assessments. Nick is a solid player on a solid team. Losing him hurts, but it's not the end of the world. He's not great, but he's a very solid contributor.

[Tbonewannabe]

I agree with your assessments. Nick is a solid player on a solid team. Losing him hurts, but it's not the end of the world. He's not great, but he's a very solid contributor.

The biggest issue is depth at guard. Q was wore out at the end of the game last night because he didn't come out very much if at all. Having Nick gives you a chance to have Peters, Nick, and Tyson on the floor while Q gets a breather. Woodard helps but it has already been said that Feazell will get the bench minutes and he is not quite ready.

It doesn't kill you but could mean the difference in a win or loss come tourney time.

[msstate7]

What's the latest on nick?

[tcdog70]

Nick's absence is magnified if LP plays like shit. If Peters can play like He did last year then we will be fine. But these games where he has zero points puts un-needed pressure on Q and Tyson. If Peters is playing good then all Q has to do is spot up and Shoot. But if all game long He has to manufacture his shots, then he is gassed at the end of the game. Peters is the KEY--if he sucks then we really need Nick.

[Dental Dawg33]

What's the latest on nick?

Wondering the same

[jackindabox]

If he doesn't make it back here down the stretch? Obviously we go from an 8 man rotation to 7 (not including Feazell), so it hurts depth and foul trouble becomes huge. But does it prevent you from thinking we can make a sweet 16 run if you thought we could do so with Nick?


If he is out for the tournament we dont make it to the second weekend. We are looking at a 6 seed at best right now and teams like LSU and Kansas are 3 seeds. We cant be those type of teams if we loose our best on ball defender. However I think he will be back long before that and the team ironically will be better because of it.

[ShotgunDawg]

What's the latest on nick?

Bo Bounds said this morning that there are strong rumors he may not be back this season and Rosebowl alluded to him having an extended absence on the Boneyard. Said he believes there is a "process" for him to come back that is outside of Howland's control.

I believe it's likely an academic, honor code type issue. Fred Brown like.

[dawgday166]

If he is out for the tournament we dont make it to the second weekend. We are looking at a 6 seed at best right now and teams like LSU and Kansas are 3 seeds. We cant be those type of teams if we loose our best on ball defender. However I think he will be back long before that and the team ironically will be better because of it.

Right now I don't think we make it to 2nd weekend regardless ... unless we get a really good draw. Nick or No Nick. Just want to make the tourney right now.

Losing Nick does hurt our depth. Carter played 39 mins last night. That's too many at this level. Still would like to see a few games in a row of starting Carter, Q, Woodard, Perry, and Ado and making that the primary lineup. Try to go on runs with that group and try to hold your own when subbing.

This is a frustrating team (and maybe coach too). And I really like Howland and am trying to stick with him.

[msstate7]

Right now I don't think we make it to 2nd weekend regardless ... unless we get a really good draw. Nick or No Nick. Just want to make the tourney right now.

Losing Nick does hurt our depth. Carter played 39 mins last night. That's too many at this level. Still would like to see a few games in a row of starting Carter, Q, Woodard, Perry, and Ado and making that the primary lineup. Try to go on runs with that group and try to hold your own when subbing.

This is a frustrating team (and maybe coach too). And I really like Howland and am trying to stick with him.

Not saying we'll make it S16, but I don't think depth is as big a deal in the tourney. Tv time outs seem to be longer

[dawgday166]

Not saying we'll make it S16, but I don't think depth is as big a deal in the tourney. Tv time outs seem to be longer

Depth isn't reason I don't have confidence we'll make it past 1st weekend.

[Ari Gold]

Yeah all Nick does for us is.
Gives us someone who can finish at the rim
Someone who score mid range off the dribble
Prob the most athletic player we have
Brings an extreme amount of energy on both ends
Is our best on ball defender
Can knock down outside shots
And can play either the one or the 2

I would say that’s a very important piece for us..

[the59dawg]

I wouldn't call it major, but it's a big loss. Nick is a very solid contributor, and we don't have great depth to just replace him without losing a step.

Nick is our best onball defender. We missed him a bunch yesterday at GA.

[RougeDawg]

Bo Bounds said this morning that there are strong rumors he may not be back this season and Rosebowl alluded to him having an extended absence on the Boneyard. Said he believes there is a "process" for him to come back that is outside of Howland's control.

I believe it's likely an academic, honor code type issue. Fred Brown like.

Better watch posting this. Most on here wanted to tar and feather me for reporting it at game time last week. I?ll feogerae that NW is not the only one. Other sport(s) art not in season. With Bracky Fife in charge I can?t see how these things happen. Easily to monitor and fix before they become an issue.

[Ari Gold]

Better watch posting this. Most on here wanted to tar and feather me for reporting it at game time last week. I?ll feogerae that NW is not the only one. Other sport(s) art not in season. With Bracky Fife in charge I can?t see how these things happen. Easily to monitor and fix before they become an issue.

All I said was let’s be sure what it actually is first before start throwing out academic stuff.. And we still don’t know what it officially is.
If you want us to congratulate you if that what it turns out to be, I will be the first to say you were right..

[Dawg61]

Better watch posting this. Most on here wanted to tar and feather me for reporting it at game time last week. I?ll feogerae that NW is not the only one. Other sport(s) art not in season. With Bracky Fife in charge I can?t see how these things happen. Easily to monitor and fix before they become an issue.

And we have officially entered week 1 of the year long cycle of Rouge bitch bragging about this topic

[BB30]

Right now I don't think we make it to 2nd weekend regardless ... unless we get a really good draw. Nick or No Nick. Just want to make the tourney right now.

Losing Nick does hurt our depth. Carter played 39 mins last night. That's too many at this level. Still would like to see a few games in a row of starting Carter, Q, Woodard, Perry, and Ado and making that the primary lineup. Try to go on runs with that group and try to hold your own when subbing.

This is a frustrating team (and maybe coach too). And I really like Howland and am trying to stick with him.

Eh this is an interesting take considering we have beat several teams that would be comparative to a rd 1 matchup and a few that could be considered much better. We have also played in stretches really good against teams that could be elite 8/final 4 caliber. This team can play with just about anyone in the country when things are clicking.

Your undervaluing this team a touch especially once Nick is back in the lineup.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Nick is an above average defender who can give you another scoring option when Lamar is off. He's without a doubt very important. We're in a world of trouble come tourney time without him. And without him tomorrow night someone is gonna have to step up and lock down Gravett or he'll have 30.

[dawgday166]

Eh this is an interesting take considering we have beat several teams that would be comparative to a rd 1 matchup and a few that could be considered much better. We have also played in stretches really good against teams that could be elite 8/final 4 caliber. This team can play with just about anyone in the country when things are clicking.

Your undervaluing this team a touch especially once Nick is back in the lineup.

Maybe so and didn't say we couldn't ... I said it would depend on draw. Last bracketology I saw had a Rd 2 matchup against North Carolina. Now I haven't watched them play but from a historical perspective I can almost guarantee (and the key word is almost) that we will be at a disadvantage at the guard position. Penn St ate our 2 guards up last year with length and quickness. I would imagine UNC has better guards.

Just to put this in perspective. Malik Newman has receive tons of criticism on our boards. Hadn't hardly watched him play. But last year during tourney he was lights out and played better than I've seen either one of our usual starting guards ever play. He also has more length. Both Kansas guards were better than Penn St.

Based on UNC beating Duke the other night ... I'm guessing they're possibly Final 4 team. We aren't that close to that IMO.

ETA: I'd love to be wrong tho.

[chef dixon]

Nick is an above average defender who can give you another scoring option when Lamar is off. He's without a doubt very important. We're in a world of trouble come tourney time without him. And without him tomorrow night someone is gonna have to step up and lock down Gravett or he'll have 30.

Gravett averages 11 a game and his career high is 23. If he drops 30 we got different issues