Why Doesn't Clemson Recruit Better?

[ShotgunDawg]

Don't get me wrong, Clemson recruits well, but why not better considering the Nattys, Dabo, proximity to the Atlanta Metro, and the culture they've created there?

It's a fascinating question IMO.

Here are your 2 time in the last 3 years Natty winner's recruiting profile:

2019 - 10
2018 - 7
2017 - 16
2016 - 11
2015 - 9
2014 - 16

How are these other schools out recruiting Clemson?

This is a literally a situation that it appears as, no matter what you do, you can't be a top 5 recruiter. Is 247 fudging the rankings towards bigger fan bases?

[Political Hack]

South Carolina has Mississippi-esq level talent. Hard to catch Ga, Tx, Fl, and even AL.

[ShotgunDawg]

South Carolina has Mississippi-esq level talent. Hard to catch Ga, Tx, Fl, and even AL.

True. It's just crazy though.

Alabama the state doesn't have GREAT talent yet Bama finishes #1 every year.

I think it's shows how important a nationwide network is. Bama has the biggest and it shows.

[msbulldog]

Gun, you do realize that Clemsons campus was purposely modeled after ours. LOL

[HoopsDawg]

They don't process as many kids. Smaller classes typically.

[Tbonewannabe]

Gun, you do realize that Clemsons campus was purposely modeled after ours. LOL

Clemson was actually copied from MSU. I read an article on it once. The South Carolina legislators wanted an Ag/Mechanical college and they studied how we were set up and copied it.

"In his will, Clemson explicitly stated that he wanted the school to be modeled after what is now Mississippi State University: "This institution, I desire, to be under the control and management of a board of trustees, a part of whom are hereinafter appointed, and to be modeled after the Agricultural College of Mississippi as far as practicable."[12]."

Apparently Clemson had a wealthy donor similar to Vanderbilt that left his money to create Clemson University.

[Cooterpoot]

Because recruiting rankings are skewed to help certain programs.

[ShotgunDawg]

Because recruiting rankings are skewed to help certain programs.

I think Clemson's success would certainly make this plausible

[msbulldog]

Clemson was actually copied from MSU. I read an article on it once. The South Carolina legislators wanted an Ag/Mechanical college and they studied how we were set up and copied it.

"In his will, Clemson explicitly stated that he wanted the school to be modeled after what is now Mississippi State University: "This institution, I desire, to be under the control and management of a board of trustees, a part of whom are hereinafter appointed, and to be modeled after the Agricultural College of Mississippi as far as practicable."[12]."

Apparently Clemson had a wealthy donor similar to Vanderbilt that left his money to create Clemson University.


Gun, you do realize that Clemsons campus was purposely modeled after ours. LOL

That was what I was referring to! The founder of Clemson was Thomas Green Clemson, was an American politician and statesman, serving as an ambassador and the United States Superintendent of Agriculture. He served in the Confederate States Army. He founded Clemson University in South Carolina

[MetEdDawg]

Don't get me wrong, Clemson recruits well, but why not better considering the Nattys, Dabo, proximity to the Atlanta Metro, and the culture they've created there?

It's a fascinating question IMO.

Here are your 2 time in the last 3 years Natty winner's recruiting profile:

2019 - 10
2018 - 7
2017 - 16
2016 - 11
2015 - 9
2014 - 16

How are these other schools out recruiting Clemson?

This is a literally a situation that it appears as, no matter what you do, you can't be a top 5 recruiter. Is 247 fudging the rankings towards bigger fan bases?

They recruit culture. One of the ways to beat top talent is to have top culture with slightly less talented guys. Dabo figured out that was the only way to beat Alabama was to brand his own culture. He's not getting the top guys. But he's getting the most out of everyone. And he's not signing bad kids. But if you have a roster full of nothing but hard working 4 stars, you are gonna win a lot of games and that's what he's doing.

We recruit culture, but we don't have as big a recruiting footprint. I think we could be Clemson in 10 years, but we have to broaden our base, our brand, and we have to overachieve a decent amount. Beat big teams, win primetime games, that kind of thing.

[smootness]

Don't get me wrong, Clemson recruits well, but why not better considering the Nattys, Dabo, proximity to the Atlanta Metro, and the culture they've created there?

It's a fascinating question IMO.

Here are your 2 time in the last 3 years Natty winner's recruiting profile:

2019 - 10
2018 - 7
2017 - 16
2016 - 11
2015 - 9
2014 - 16

How are these other schools out recruiting Clemson?

This is a literally a situation that it appears as, no matter what you do, you can't be a top 5 recruiter. Is 247 fudging the rankings towards bigger fan bases?

Avg. per recruit:
2019 - 16 (you could certainly argue this was a down year, they did have a 5-star but took 15 3-stars)
2018 - 4 (5 5-stars)
2017 - 5 (2 5-stars)
2016 - 9 (and barely below the few ahead of them, 1 5-star)
2015 - 12 (but they had 3 5-stars)
2014 - 11

So it's a bit of a mix of several things people have said. They do get top guys, don't think they don't. 8 5-star recruits in the last 3 years is doing just fine. They do develop very well and have a great group of coaches, they get the most out of their guys. And they also don't generally sign as many as most do, which artificially drops their class ranking. You can see a clear upward trend before the 2019 class in the ranking of average per recruit.

They are not a historically great program with tons and tons of resources and in-state talent like Alabama, USC, Ohio State, Florida, FSU, LSU, and the others who typically recruit at the top. To me, the way they've raised their recruiting profile is almost as impressive as the way they've won on the field.

[dawgday166]

Because recruiting rankings are skewed to help certain programs.


I think Clemson's success would certainly make this plausible

While Cooter's statement is true somewhat IMO, I believe it also the fact that you don't need elite talent across the board, you need elite talent at certain positions.
1 QB, 1 to 2 WR, 2 DL (Tackle and DE), 1 LB, and 1 shutdown corner. They all don't have to be 5*s either ... just upper 4* players. Throw in an upper-tier LT, a well-structured schedule, and great coaching then you got the makings of a CFP team probably.

Unless you're Saban. He needs great talent everywhere ... plus the refs in his pocket.

[ShotgunDawg]

They recruit culture. One of the ways to beat top talent is to have top culture with slightly less talented guys. Dabo figured out that was the only way to beat Alabama was to brand his own culture. He's not getting the top guys. But he's getting the most out of everyone. And he's not signing bad kids. But if you have a roster full of nothing but hard working 4 stars, you are gonna win a lot of games and that's what he's doing.

We recruit culture, but we don't have as big a recruiting footprint. I think we could be Clemson in 10 years, but we have to broaden our base, our brand, and we have to overachieve a decent amount. Beat big teams, win primetime games, that kind of thing.

I totally get why Clemson wins, but that wasn't the question.

He question was: why don't they recruit better? How is winning at an unbelievably high rate not helping them on the recruiting trail?

[MetEdDawg]

I totally get why Clemson wins, but that wasn't the question.

He question was: why don't they recruit better? How is winning at an unbelievably high rate not helping them on the recruiting trail?

I think I answered that. They don't chase stars. They chase culture. That's what they do. They get a 5 star or two, but they get a bunch of 4 stars that fit their mission and their culture.

Recruiting better indicates that what they are doing now isn't good enough. If you have a great culture, which they do, you don't sacrifice that for talent. You develop the good to great talent you already have.

[gravedigger]

Dabo does not understand that in order to win one must abide by the those with the highest recruiting class rule. Once the NCAA finds out they?ve been winning without following this simple rule there will be hell to pay.

Or they will be added to the ?anyone who commits to Clemson is a 5 star? rule and all will be forgiven.



Don't get me wrong, Clemson recruits well, but why not better considering the Nattys, Dabo, proximity to the Atlanta Metro, and the culture they've created there?

It's a fascinating question IMO.

Here are your 2 time in the last 3 years Natty winner's recruiting profile:

2019 - 10
2018 - 7
2017 - 16
2016 - 11
2015 - 9
2014 - 16

How are these other schools out recruiting Clemson?

This is a literally a situation that it appears as, no matter what you do, you can't be a top 5 recruiter. Is 247 fudging the rankings towards bigger fan bases?

[msstate7]

Clemson beat Bama 2 times. The 2 they won they had deshon Watson and Trevor Lawrence. The 1 they lost they had Kelly Bryant. Clemson keeps elite WRs and a solid defense... when they have an elite qb, they can beat Bama. When they have an avg qb, they can't

[dantheman4248]

Clemson takes on average a lower number of recruits than most schools. They don’t oversign. They’re generally able to keep guys for 4 years. As another pointed out, they have higher average recruit ranking than their class ranking a lot. Shows they are picky and don’t just give out ehh scholarships to fill the board.

[Political Hack]

Clemson was actually copied from MSU. I read an article on it once. The South Carolina legislators wanted an Ag/Mechanical college and they studied how we were set up and copied it.

"In his will, Clemson explicitly stated that he wanted the school to be modeled after what is now Mississippi State University: "This institution, I desire, to be under the control and management of a board of trustees, a part of whom are hereinafter appointed, and to be modeled after the Agricultural College of Mississippi as far as practicable."[12]."

Apparently Clemson had a wealthy donor similar to Vanderbilt that left his money to create Clemson University.

I know a relative of the gentleman who granted them the land. Great family with some ties to Mississippi, but the man I know lives near Atlanta now.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Clemson takes on average a lower number of recruits than most schools. They don’t oversign. They’re generally able to keep guys for 4 years. As another pointed out, they have higher average recruit ranking than their class ranking a lot. Shows they are picky and don’t just give out ehh scholarships to fill the board.

Also true of their official visits. They don't believe in letting a kid just come for the scenery or a courtesy visit. They only offer official visits if there's genuine interest. Also rare to see their commits take other OVs. I think it really speaks to Dabo and the culture when you already have recruits who aren't even on campus yet bought into that culture.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Total of commits the last 4 years

2019 - 29
2018 - 17
2017 - 14
2016 - 21
2015 - 26
2014 - 20

They rarely sign full classes. They do extremely well on WR, QB, OL, & DL. I'm not sure how many they will sign in 2020 but I'd put money on it being Dabo's best class he's ever signed.

[MetEdDawg]

Total of commits the last 4 years

2019 - 29
2018 - 17
2017 - 14
2016 - 21
2015 - 26
2014 - 20

They rarely sign full classes. They do extremely well on WR, QB, OL, & DL. I'm not sure how many they will sign in 2020 but I'd put money on it being Dabo's best class he's ever signed.

They have seven 4 star commits right now. 3 OL, 2 DT, 2 LBs.

[parabrave]

South Carolina has Mississippi-esq level talent. Hard to catch Ga, Tx, Fl, and even AL.

I used to live in both Carolinas, Mississippi has both states beat for talent. Clemson used to recruit heavily in the north, NJ, NY and PA as well as GA and NC.

[MetEdDawg]

I used to live in both Carolinas, Mississippi has both states beat for talent. Clemson used to recruit heavily in the north, NJ, NY and PA as well as GA and NC.

The two states combined had no 5 stars and only 10 4 stars. Not having the home state talent to pull from certainly isn't helping Clemson. They are playing their way to a national brand, but they don't spend or make money like the national brands do. Makes out of state recruiting a little harder.

[parabrave]

The two states combined had no 5 stars and only 10 4 stars. Not having the home state talent to pull from certainly isn't helping Clemson. They are playing their way to a national brand, but they don't spend or make money like the national brands do. Makes out of state recruiting a little harder.

But I will say one thing about their campus, It is absolutely gorgeous there with the foothills and the lake surrounding it. They can truthfully say check out our campus. Oh did I mention they have a huge booster base and a pretty good coach.

[msstate7]

Perhaps we should "accidentally" give our players PEDs

https://deadspin.com/dabo-swinney-clemson-might-have-accidentally-given-ped-1832494751

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Perhaps we should "accidentally" give our players PEDs

https://deadspin.com/dabo-swinney-clemson-might-have-accidentally-given-ped-1832494751

Alabama, Auburn, and some other SEC schools were using deer antler spray: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/8897280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use-product

[msstate7]

Alabama, Auburn, and some other SEC schools were using deer antler spray: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/8897280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use-product

Let's just say frick it and give Trenbolone to all players**

[Bothrops]

It's still kind of a blue collar program in comparison to the other programs it recruits against. I've never been to Clemson.. people say it's like Starkville, but I'm skeptical.

[bulldawg28]

Don't get me wrong, Clemson recruits well, but why not better considering the Nattys, Dabo, proximity to the Atlanta Metro, and the culture they've created there?

It's a fascinating question IMO.

Here are your 2 time in the last 3 years Natty winner's recruiting profile:

2019 - 10
2018 - 7
2017 - 16
2016 - 11
2015 - 9
2014 - 16

How are these other schools out recruiting Clemson?

This is a literally a situation that it appears as, no matter what you do, you can't be a top 5 recruiter. Is 247 fudging the rankings towards bigger fan bases?

Clemson is recruiting better. Wins aren't based on writers evaluations and star perspectives. Their guys are better than the teams they play.

[parabrave]

It's still kind of a blue collar program in comparison to the other programs it recruits against. I've never been to Clemson.. people say it's like Starkville, but I'm skeptical.

Starkville is actually bigger. But it is surrounded by Greenville Spartanburg to the east Anderson to the south and Atlanta one hour away. Alot of state grads live up there, all bankers.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Don't get me wrong, Clemson recruits well, but why not better considering the Nattys, Dabo, proximity to the Atlanta Metro, and the culture they've created there?

It's a fascinating question IMO.

Here are your 2 time in the last 3 years Natty winner's recruiting profile:

2019 - 10
2018 - 7
2017 - 16
2016 - 11
2015 - 9
2014 - 16

How are these other schools out recruiting Clemson?

This is a literally a situation that it appears as, no matter what you do, you can't be a top 5 recruiter. Is 247 fudging the rankings towards bigger fan bases?

Maybe if you'd listen to me when I tell you 100 times that the difference in class 10 and class 5 is literally nothing this would make more sense

[TUSK]

Alabama, Auburn, and some other SEC schools were using deer antler spray: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/8897280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use-product

That's a cover story Bammer, the SEC, and the NCAA fed to ESPN... It was actually "Unicorn Horn" Spray....

It's both more rare much more effective than the deer antler spray.

[Turfdawg67]

Clemson was actually copied from MSU. I read an article on it once. The South Carolina legislators wanted an Ag/Mechanical college and they studied how we were set up and copied it.

"In his will, Clemson explicitly stated that he wanted the school to be modeled after what is now Mississippi State University: "This institution, I desire, to be under the control and management of a board of trustees, a part of whom are hereinafter appointed, and to be modeled after the Agricultural College of Mississippi as far as practicable."[12]."

Apparently Clemson had a wealthy donor similar to Vanderbilt that left his money to create Clemson University.

Geez, can they share their football blueprint with us?? You know, quid pro quo and all...

[Turfdawg67]

Clemson is recruiting better. Wins aren't based on writers evaluations and star perspectives. Their guys are better than the teams they play.

Boom! Maybe he's an evaluator of talent and doesn't care for the pre-madonnas. Kinda like Murlens crootin' a 2* that should be a 3-4*? No sarcastricks needed.

[Lance Harbor]

And Engineers. GSP is a huge manufacturing hub.

And the campus is nice. Nothing special. The town is like Mayberry, maybe 10,000 residents total. Really good public schools though. Starkville is a booming metropolis in comparison. Handful of bars, no music scene, food sucks. But they do have a nice lake.

The culture thing can't be understated. They are A&M cult like and have been for years. Their Alumni association and IPTAY win accolades for how well organized and engaged they are. Also, Danny Ford taught them the tricks of the Bama recruiting trade. Hell, even John Heisman coached there. But anytime you mention "it's hard to recruit to Starkville" just remember that Clemson is worse.

Also guess what state has the biggest attendance at Clemson besides South Carolina.....New Jersey. They can recruit nationally.


Starkville is actually bigger. But it is surrounded by Greenville Spartanburg to the east Anderson to the south and Atlanta one hour away. Alot of state grads live up there, all bankers.

[parabrave]

And Engineers. GSP is a huge manufacturing hub.

And the campus is nice. Nothing special. The town is like Mayberry, maybe 10,000 residents total. Really good public schools though. Starkville is a booming metropolis in comparison. Handful of bars, no music scene, food sucks. But they do have a nice lake.

The culture thing can't be understated. They are A&M cult like and have been for years. Their Alumni association and IPTAY win accolades for how well organized and engaged they are. Also, Danny Ford taught them the tricks of the Bama recruiting trade. Hell, even John Heisman coached there. But anytime you mention "it's hard to recruit to Starkville" just remember that Clemson is worse.

Also guess what state has the biggest attendance at Clemson besides South Carolina.....New Jersey. They can recruit nationally.

I lived in Anderson back in the 90's and then Clemson was a one 2 lane road town that if you didn't know it was there you would drive right by it. They used to call it the New Jersey Engineering college cause of all the Jersites enrolled there. And they revere Danny Ford almost as bad as bamaites do the Bear. But every person up there whether they went to college or not is a member of IPTAY. Just imagine if 70% of every person living north of Jackson being a member of the Bulldog club that would be the equivalent of their IPTAY.