MSU football coaches and recruiting

[Todd4State]

I just wanted to put this out here now because I didn't want it to look I was "melting".

But one thing I would like to see at some point in my MSU fan lifetime is for us to have a head football coach with Mississippi ties that is a qualified head coach and see how he recruits and what kind of impact that would have on our recruiting. Or maybe the South at least?

It seems like we hire these coaches and they all have this "learning curve" for at least a year- except for Dan who just didn't care that much I don't think and acted like an asshole about it. I don't know how many would agree or disagree with this but based on my observations the best two recruiters that we have had in my lifetime were Bob Tyler and Rockey Felker. Both had ties to Mississippi and or MSU and I don't think that's a coincidence.


And yes, Tyler cheated but he still after those sanctions were levied was able to put together what amounted to the 1980 team which was absolutely loaded with pro talent. We're talking about two first round picks including a guy that was the second overall pick in the entire draft in Johnie Cooks and that doesn't include Kent Hull who was the best center in the game in the late 1980's and early 1990's and a pro bowler. Then there were others like Glen Young and Wayne Harris who were great players as well.


Felker to me just wasn't a good coach and probably got our job before he was ready. Had things worked out where he could have maybe gotten a head coaching job somewhere else first and cut his teeth he may have been a better choice to replace Jackie had history been written a little differently. And maybe not- who knows?


The last two coaches we've had were from the North and are having to learn about the recruiting culture here in Mississippi. Croom was an Alabama fan and I think it's fair to question how exactly how committed he was to MSU. I don't think he necessarily wanted to be here in the first place either judging by his comments. I think that hurt him here. Jackie did well in recruiting but had to rely a lot on JUCO's. Emory was a retread and wasn't a good recruiter which put us in a hole in the 1980's.


It just seems like MSU at least with the last two hires has opted to go with someone that may be an "offensive guru" and I don't think that recruiting was number one on the list. I think it would be interesting to hire someone like a Jeremy Pruitt who maybe isn't the greatest X's and O's guy but he'll recruit good talent and he won't be as pigeon holed into a system which would allow for more flexibility in recruiting and more adaptability. Which would prevent someone like Gardner Minchew from leaving Mississippi because "well, he doesn't run the ball like Dan wants to."


Just my two cents and hope we finish strong.

[Gutter Cobreh]

So which is it; a MS guy or someone like Pruitt? You make conflicting wishes.

Personally, I think the whole "having a coach that grew up in MS" gets blown out of proportion. The guys are compensated very handsomely, so I believe each one is incentivized to win. Recruits don't care where the coach grew up; they just want to win and showcase their skills.

[Todd4State]

I would say that I would prefer someone from Mississippi but having Southern ties would also be fine as well.

I agree that the recruits don't care where the coaches are from. But there are some dynamics unique to Mississippi that has to be learned on the job that can cause for some early growing pains.

[NCDawg]

I would say that I would prefer someone from Mississippi but having Southern ties would also be fine as well.

I agree that the recruits don't care where the coaches are from. But there are some dynamics unique to Mississippi that has to be learned on the job that can cause for some early growing pains.

I agree with you, but apparently Cohen prefers northern coaches.

[Todd4State]

I agree with you, but apparently Cohen prefers northern coaches.

I've met Cohen a few times. I don't know him well by any means. But enough to get an impression. Cohen is a VERY smart guy and he wants to be the smartest guy in the room. He is the kind of guy that wants to do something different and have it work out and have him look like a genius. That's the kind of thing that gives him the most joy. So, he's going to typically favor guys that do something different that are also highly intelligent. See Butch Thompson and his affinity with low arm angle pitchers. See Wes Johnson and his weighted ball workouts. See the moves that Cohen made as a baseball coach that sometimes our fans questioned a lot. Sometimes things worked out. Usually there were some growing pains initially- see 2009 and 2010 season. Sometimes things blew up in his face- see Wes Johnson progressing his program too quickly to our detriment. But usually when things came out of the wash- we ended up accomplishing some really good things. I think that applies to Moorhead as well. I think he went through some growing pains this year during the season and also in recruiting. But I also think he has a chance to be very good for us as well over time.

[DogsofAnarchy]

I just wanted to put this out here now because I didn't want it to look I was "melting".

But one thing I would like to see at some point in my MSU fan lifetime is for us to have a head football coach with Mississippi ties that is a qualified head coach and see how he recruits and what kind of impact that would have on our recruiting. Or maybe the South at least?

It seems like we hire these coaches and they all have this "learning curve" for at least a year- except for Dan who just didn't care that much I don't think and acted like an asshole about it. I don't know how many would agree or disagree with this but based on my observations the best two recruiters that we have had in my lifetime were Bob Tyler and Rockey Felker. Both had ties to Mississippi and or MSU and I don't think that's a coincidence.


And yes, Tyler cheated but he still after those sanctions were levied was able to put together what amounted to the 1980 team which was absolutely loaded with pro talent. We're talking about two first round picks including a guy that was the second overall pick in the entire draft in Johnie Cooks and that doesn't include Kent Hull who was the best center in the game in the late 1980's and early 1990's and a pro bowler. Then there were others like Glen Young and Wayne Harris who were great players as well.


Felker to me just wasn't a good coach and probably got our job before he was ready. Had things worked out where he could have maybe gotten a head coaching job somewhere else first and cut his teeth he may have been a better choice to replace Jackie had history been written a little differently. And maybe not- who knows?


The last two coaches we've had were from the North and are having to learn about the recruiting culture here in Mississippi. Croom was an Alabama fan and I think it's fair to question how exactly how committed he was to MSU. I don't think he necessarily wanted to be here in the first place either judging by his comments. I think that hurt him here. Jackie did well in recruiting but had to rely a lot on JUCO's. Emory was a retread and wasn't a good recruiter which put us in a hole in the 1980's.


It just seems like MSU at least with the last two hires has opted to go with someone that may be an "offensive guru" and I don't think that recruiting was number one on the list. I think it would be interesting to hire someone like a Jeremy Pruitt who maybe isn't the greatest X's and O's guy but he'll recruit good talent and he won't be as pigeon holed into a system which would allow for more flexibility in recruiting and more adaptability. Which would prevent someone like Gardner Minchew from leaving Mississippi because "well, he doesn't run the ball like Dan wants to."


Just my two cents and hope we finish strong.

Not trying to flame you but this recruiting class is really good. Did we get every player in Mississippi? No. Will we ever? No!! Does Auburn get every player in Alabama? No. Does Florida get every player they want in Florida? No. Our class is VERY good and more than half of our Football staff has roots in Mississippi and the South. So this blind faith that got us no where previous to Coach JWS does not need to be attempted again. We are doing fine and we will do better in the future. Oh by the way, Rocky went 1-10 and was perhaps the most hard headed coach we’ve ever had. Good lord.

[BiscuitEater]

I would say that I would prefer someone from Mississippi but having Southern ties would also be fine as well.

West Virginia native, Kent State alum Nick Saban 'disagrees' but Bama native Sly Croom says 'yepper, it sure helped me!"**

Just kidding but do think it's more about coaching and recruiting abilities than where he's from!

[BrunswickDawg]

I'd say the problem isn't the coaches and where they are from, it's Mississippi. Or specifically, the recruiting culture in Mississippi. Everyone has a hand out. Too many people trying to get their cut. And the kids - most of them want to get out and get away to somewhere where they might be able make something of themselves. To most of them that means not in Mississippi. That's not something coaches can solve.

[maroonmania]

I've met Cohen a few times. I don't know him well by any means. But enough to get an impression. Cohen is a VERY smart guy and he wants to be the smartest guy in the room. He is the kind of guy that wants to do something different and have it work out and have him look like a genius. That's the kind of thing that gives him the most joy. So, he's going to typically favor guys that do something different that are also highly intelligent. See Butch Thompson and his affinity with low arm angle pitchers. See Wes Johnson and his weighted ball workouts. See the moves that Cohen made as a baseball coach that sometimes our fans questioned a lot. Sometimes things worked out. Usually there were some growing pains initially- see 2009 and 2010 season. Sometimes things blew up in his face- see Wes Johnson progressing his program too quickly to our detriment. But usually when things came out of the wash- we ended up accomplishing some really good things. I think that applies to Moorhead as well. I think he went through some growing pains this year during the season and also in recruiting. But I also think he has a chance to be very good for us as well over time.

Agree completely on Cohen, good or bad. If you listen to Pruitt speak for about 10 seconds then you know EXACTLY why Cohen was not going to hire him. And yes, these guys that come here from outside the region that don't understand the uniqueness of recruiting in the South and more specifically MS do have about a 2-3 year learning curve to get through making unnecessary errors in the process like Moorhead seems to be making this year. Once Moorhead understands the lay of the land though, given his personality, I think he will do very well in MS but he is getting some lessons learned this season with both in state and out of state recruits. We are at least lucky that OM is not in position to do their normal level of cheating or it could be much worse. The class this year is still going to have plenty enough high quality guys that I believe we will be OK going forward if they get coached properly.

[Todd4State]

Not trying to flame you but this recruiting class is really good. Did we get every player in Mississippi? No. Will we ever? No!! Does Auburn get every player in Alabama? No. Does Florida get every player they want in Florida? No. Our class is VERY good and more than half of our Football staff has roots in Mississippi and the South. So this blind faith that got us no where previous to Coach JWS does not need to be attempted again. We are doing fine and we will do better in the future. Oh by the way, Rocky went 1-10 and was perhaps the most hard headed coach we’ve ever had. Good lord.


No we probably won't get every good player in Mississippi but at the same time I think we could do better in football. There are years that we clean out the state in baseball and basketball recruiting. Can't really remember us ever doing it in football- but I believe that we have the potential to do so. I agree that our class is very good- if we crap out on NSD we have seven 4-5 star players which is only one less than Dan's best class ever going by 247 composite ratings. And that's in a learning curve year. Also 2020 is off to a very good start with at least three four star players already which is as many or more than some of Dan's classes.


West Virginia native, Kent State alum Nick Saban 'disagrees' but Bama native Sly Croom says 'yepper, it sure helped me!"**

Just kidding but do think it's more about coaching and recruiting abilities than where he's from!


To be fair- Saban was at LSU before going to Alabama and definitely had some ties to the area when he got to Alabama too.


I'd say the problem isn't the coaches and where they are from, it's Mississippi. Or specifically, the recruiting culture in Mississippi. Everyone has a hand out. Too many people trying to get their cut. And the kids - most of them want to get out and get away to somewhere where they might be able make something of themselves. To most of them that means not in Mississippi. That's not something coaches can solve.


I agree. That's a big downside of being a relatively poor agricultural state. You have poor uncles and cousins trying to take advantage of their poor relatives who have a chance and more often than not they end up doing something that hurts their relative and their family as well.


Agree completely on Cohen, good or bad. If you listen to Pruitt speak for about 10 seconds then you know EXACTLY why Cohen was not going to hire him. And yes, these guys that come here from outside the region that don't understand the uniqueness of recruiting in the South and more specifically MS do have about a 2-3 year learning curve to get through making unnecessary errors in the process like Moorhead seems to be making this year. Once Moorhead understands the lay of the land though, given his personality, I think he will do very well in MS but he is getting some lessons learned this season with both in state and out of state recruits. We are at least lucky that OM is not in position to do their normal level of cheating or it could be much worse. The class this year is still going to have plenty enough high quality guys that I believe we will be OK going forward if they get coached properly.


I agree 100%. Hopefully Joe has a career arc like Cohen in baseball too.

[Schultzy]

We need to get get Peterson as an on the field coach IMO.

[bulldawg28]

Having a head coach from Mississippi will not impact recruiting at all. Born and raised in Mississippi is great. However once you're exposed to other cultures, environments, and opportunities leaving is easier. For a black athlete/ American you'll get more opportunities after football elsewhere than in Mississippi.

[Jarius]

We need to get get Peterson as an on the field coach IMO.

I agree with this. Peterson needs to be on the field and given a shot IMO. If he does well then move up to a coordinator position eventually. He is a guy that is smart enough to run this program for a long time if he is mentored and brought along the correct way. I realize that this is way way way down the line type thinking and he is nowhere near ready to be an SEC head coach right now, but I honestly think that he has that type of potential. Maybe I'm wrong.

As far as the OP goes, I agree with a lot of your sentiments. We have a habit of hiring unqualified coaches in our past at MSU. Croom was unqualified. Ray was unqualified. Canni was probably unqualified in hindsight as well. A good MS coach that checks the qualification boxes is what we really need because they are unlikely to bolt for another program if he is successful. Hopefully Joe will be here for 4 or 5 years and be good enough to get a huge blue blood type job and we can find a QUALIFIED guy that won't be trying to jump ship at a bigger job. However, if we can't find that guy we don't need to just hire a guy from MS or the south just to say we hired one.

[Howboutdemdogs]

I have listened to Cohen speak a few times. The one thing that stands out is his desire to compete and win. I believe that what ever sport you coach at MSU, you are held to the same standards of his competitive desire. If you don’t perform, he will replace you. Now, his time line of results can be a mystery at times. 100% effort in a coach is his expectation.

[Fred Garvin]

West Virginia native, Kent State alum Nick Saban 'disagrees' but Bama native Sly Croom says 'yepper, it sure helped me!"**

Just kidding but do think it's more about coaching and recruiting abilities than where he's from!

THIS^^^. Alabama wandered in the desert for years because they demanded Alabama ties. Strangely the coaches that got them national titles were graduates from other schools. Hire the best coach available and then give time to succeed.

[Spiderman]

I just wanted to put this out here now because I didn't want it to look I was "melting".

But one thing I would like to see at some point in my MSU fan lifetime is for us to have a head football coach with Mississippi ties that is a qualified head coach and see how he recruits and what kind of impact that would have on our recruiting. Or maybe the South at least?

It seems like we hire these coaches and they all have this "learning curve" for at least a year- except for Dan who just didn't care that much I don't think and acted like an asshole about it. I don't know how many would agree or disagree with this but based on my observations the best two recruiters that we have had in my lifetime were Bob Tyler and Rockey Felker. Both had ties to Mississippi and or MSU and I don't think that's a coincidence.


And yes, Tyler cheated but he still after those sanctions were levied was able to put together what amounted to the 1980 team which was absolutely loaded with pro talent. We're talking about two first round picks including a guy that was the second overall pick in the entire draft in Johnie Cooks and that doesn't include Kent Hull who was the best center in the game in the late 1980's and early 1990's and a pro bowler. Then there were others like Glen Young and Wayne Harris who were great players as well.


Felker to me just wasn't a good coach and probably got our job before he was ready. Had things worked out where he could have maybe gotten a head coaching job somewhere else first and cut his teeth he may have been a better choice to replace Jackie had history been written a little differently. And maybe not- who knows?


The last two coaches we've had were from the North and are having to learn about the recruiting culture here in Mississippi. Croom was an Alabama fan and I think it's fair to question how exactly how committed he was to MSU. I don't think he necessarily wanted to be here in the first place either judging by his comments. I think that hurt him here. Jackie did well in recruiting but had to rely a lot on JUCO's. Emory was a retread and wasn't a good recruiter which put us in a hole in the 1980's.


It just seems like MSU at least with the last two hires has opted to go with someone that may be an "offensive guru" and I don't think that recruiting was number one on the list. I think it would be interesting to hire someone like a Jeremy Pruitt who maybe isn't the greatest X's and O's guy but he'll recruit good talent and he won't be as pigeon holed into a system which would allow for more flexibility in recruiting and more adaptability. Which would prevent someone like Gardner Minchew from leaving Mississippi because "well, he doesn't run the ball like Dan wants to."


Just my two cents and hope we finish strong.

I get what you are trying to say, but the whole Mullen was a horrible recruiter thing iswrong, IMO.

Look at the guys in the NFL now, and others that played well there but are now out, plus the one's going in in the next couple of years. Never has one coach at MSU signed that many NFL players, much less the high paid starters in the NFL from State.

He could have 3 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder this year that he signed.

He may have not "won" many signing days by perception, but I'd say he did in reality.

[BiscuitEater]

Matt Luke, Mississippi native, OM family, player, & coach. And, I sincerely hope they keep him as HC for a couple more years!

He floated that 'Mississippi Made' sthick with a roster of ~70 non Miss'ipians! How's that working out?

[BiscuitEater]

THIS^^^. Alabama wandered in the desert for years because they demanded Alabama ties. Strangely the coaches that got them national titles were graduates from other schools. Hire the best coach available and then give time to succeed.

Well except .. Bama called and 'Bear' came home to mama! Won big and they tried to repeat with others. BUT, Bama won big 'before' Bear too!

If Bear had left Arkansas and played at MSU instead of Bama, MSU would now have ~37 CFB NC thopheys!**

[maroonmania]

THIS^^^. Alabama wandered in the desert for years because they demanded Alabama ties. Strangely the coaches that got them national titles were graduates from other schools. Hire the best coach available and then give time to succeed.

Couple of points. First, comparing UofA recruiting to MSU recruiting is apples and oranges since AL recruits itself to a large degree, Saban just takes it to a whole other level. Second, AL doesn't have the situation of worrying about their current coach using them as a stepping stone like we do. So it really doesn't matter where their coach comes from.
They either have a really good coach giving them stability while winning championships (conference and national) or they have one that doesn't win enough championships so he gets replaced with someone else. In my lifetime, no Bama coach has ever left Tuscaloosa voluntarily for another job.

[Jarius]

Couple of points. First, comparing UofA recruiting to MSU recruiting is apples and oranges since AL recruits itself to a large degree, Saban just takes it to a whole other level. Second, AL doesn't have the situation of worrying about their current coach using them as a stepping stone like we do. So it really doesn't matter where their coach comes from.
They either have a really good coach giving them stability while winning championships (conference and national) or they have one that doesn't win enough championships so he gets replaced with someone else. In my lifetime, no Bama coach has ever left Tuscaloosa voluntarily for another job.

You are completely correct except for the last part. Franchione left Alabama for A&M. I agree with the premise though.

[BrunswickDawg]

There is no magic bullet for hiring coaches. There is no formula that guarantees you will make the right hire for the program. It doesn't exist. Placing some arbitrary prerequisite onto the resume limits the possibility of making a good hire.

Would it be ideal if MSU happened to produce one of the greatest football minds and he wanted to make us a super power? Yes. Reality is those coaches typically come from anywhere and everywhere. We even hired two national champion winning hall of fame coaches in the 1950s - only not to support them so they left to make their mark elsewhere. We decided not to chase Spurrier. We decided not to chase Jimbo.

Can anyone even name a single candidate that meets Todd's unicorn?
1) Plus recruiter; 2) x and o guy; 3) Mississippi guy; 4) has proven P5 HC experience (since I guess proven coordinators don't count?).

Cause I can only think of 1 person who meets 3 of the 4 - and he's preaching at Liberty.

[t45fixer]

Would love to see us add Lewis Sims to the staff on the field. Good coach and I think he?s ready for the next step.

[maroonmania]

You are completely correct except for the last part. Franchione left Alabama for A&M. I agree with the premise though.

Good point, had forgotten about Franchione. And ironically he was the one coach they hired during that era that didn't have Bama ties.

[coachnorm]

I just wanted to put this out here now because I didn't want it to look I was "melting".

But one thing I would like to see at some point in my MSU fan lifetime is for us to have a head football coach with Mississippi ties that is a qualified head coach and see how he recruits and what kind of impact that would have on our recruiting. Or maybe the South at least?

It seems like we hire these coaches and they all have this "learning curve" for at least a year- except for Dan who just didn't care that much I don't think and acted like an asshole about it. I don't know how many would agree or disagree with this but based on my observations the best two recruiters that we have had in my lifetime were Bob Tyler and Rockey Felker. Both had ties to Mississippi and or MSU and I don't think that's a coincidence.


And yes, Tyler cheated but he still after those sanctions were levied was able to put together what amounted to the 1980 team which was absolutely loaded with pro talent. We're talking about two first round picks including a guy that was the second overall pick in the entire draft in Johnie Cooks and that doesn't include Kent Hull who was the best center in the game in the late 1980's and early 1990's and a pro bowler. Then there were others like Glen Young and Wayne Harris who were great players as well.


Felker to me just wasn't a good coach and probably got our job before he was ready. Had things worked out where he could have maybe gotten a head coaching job somewhere else first and cut his teeth he may have been a better choice to replace Jackie had history been written a little differently. And maybe not- who knows?


The last two coaches we've had were from the North and are having to learn about the recruiting culture here in Mississippi. Croom was an Alabama fan and I think it's fair to question how exactly how committed he was to MSU. I don't think he necessarily wanted to be here in the first place either judging by his comments. I think that hurt him here. Jackie did well in recruiting but had to rely a lot on JUCO's. Emory was a retread and wasn't a good recruiter which put us in a hole in the 1980's.


It just seems like MSU at least with the last two hires has opted to go with someone that may be an "offensive guru" and I don't think that recruiting was number one on the list. I think it would be interesting to hire someone like a Jeremy Pruitt who maybe isn't the greatest X's and O's guy but he'll recruit good talent and he won't be as pigeon holed into a system which would allow for more flexibility in recruiting and more adaptability. Which would prevent someone like Gardner Minchew from leaving Mississippi because "well, he doesn't run the ball like Dan wants to."


Just my two cents and hope we finish strong.

Hi Todd4State. I want to comment on Rocky Felker because I enjoy your posts. When Croom was removed by Greg Byrne and we had not hired Dan Mullen yet, I spoke to Greg while in Starkville. That year I was the secondary coach at Southwestern College in the San Diego area. I told Greg about Aaron Harris who is the rushing record holder for his former high school, Granite Hills, in El Cajon California. Aaron Harris is the rushing record holder for Southwestern College currently. Aaron was as good a receiver as a running back. I told Greg that I believed that Aaron could not beat out Dixon as running back but could start at MSU as a slot receiver. Greg Byrne notified Felker of this find after Greg did his research. Felker never followed thru and strangely Ole Miss somehow found Aaron. Aaron played injured in college and injured himself lifting weights too aggressively during off season rehab. Aaron got demoralized during the off season and let his grades slide which caused him to finish up at West Texas A&M.

While I was coaching at Southwestern College, I was hired by the US Navy at Naval Air Station, North Island in San Diego which means that I was on Two teams, the US Navy F/A-18 team and Southwestern College Football. I burned out and could not continue at Southwestern College. I retired in 2018 and now coach High School Football because I am waiting for a position to reopen at Southwestern College. I have notified Mississippi State via second person about one of my high school players, Junior Keyshawn Smith, from Lincoln High School. Check out ESPN and google Keyshawn Smith you've been Mossed and his Hudl. Keyshawn has lived in San Diego and just wants to get a new look and get out of town? I thought I'd share this with a quality poster like you and fellow Elite Doggers