Mississippi and education

[MetEdDawg]

Ok guys. I teach here in Alabama and I just watched 4 kids from the high school I teach at graduate early to go play D1 football. (2 in the SEC West)

Does anyone know what is going on in MS and why kids aren't getting on plans to graduate early? You don't have to be a genius to do it. But does anyone know why MS is so far behind getting kids to graduate early so they can enroll early?

One of the big things killing our program is not getting kids on campus early. We had 5 enroll early and one was Sharp who was in JUCO. For comparison, Bama had 12, Auburn had 9, TAMU had 8. Does anyone know what's going on? There are so many online resources out there for kids to do during the summer to get classes done early that I am stunned schools aren't getting more kids out early.

[Bothrops]

I think I'll sit this one out..

[Jack Lambert]

Maybe you are to easy of a teacher.

[notsofarawaydawg]

State required testing periods. STUPID !!!

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don’t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...

[Pollodawg]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don’t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...

Yup. The state superintendent of education makes like 300k+ a year. Most superintendents at the local level make 65k+. The brass makes way too much.

[MetEdDawg]

Maybe you are to easy of a teacher.

Maybe had you had me you would get the difference between to and too. I usually don't make knocks on grammar but it felt necessary under the circumstance

[Cooterpoot]

There are a few early grads in MS. We signed one. MS actually discouraged it and make it harder than it should be.

[MetEdDawg]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don’t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...

This is nuts but it's becoming more commonplace. Alabama just releases superintendent salaries and many of them are above $180,000.

The thing I don't get is that there are tons of services and companies you can pay for to get kids in certified online classes that are NCAA clearinghouse approved and it's not that terribly difficult to set up at a school. It just baffles me that more athletes in MS aren't able to get out of high school a semester early. Systems don't lose money or teaching units because the kids are there 1st semester when attendance is counted for that kind of stuff.

I will say our head coaches of certain sports make more than double what I do and central office staff get paid very well. I'm just stunned that universities haven't stepped in to try and get more kids out of high school a semester early so they can get on campus and get into the weight programs earlier.

Alabama has made a massive push to expand online offerings and dual enrollment options for kids. It could really benefit us if we could get 4-5 more in state kids in school a semester earlier.

[Liverpooldawg]

Ok guys. I teach here in Alabama and I just watched 4 kids from the high school I teach at graduate early to go play D1 football. (2 in the SEC West)

Does anyone know what is going on in MS and why kids aren't getting on plans to graduate early? You don't have to be a genius to do it. But does anyone know why MS is so far behind getting kids to graduate early so they can enroll early?

One of the big things killing our program is not getting kids on campus early. We had 5 enroll early and one was Sharp who was in JUCO. For comparison, Bama had 12, Auburn had 9, TAMU had 8. Does anyone know what's going on? There are so many online resources out there for kids to do during the summer to get classes done early that I am stunned schools aren't getting more kids out early.

We have a lot of problems with high school education in Mississippi. Getting football players graduated early so they can go through spring practice in college is rather far down that list.

[Coach34]

JPS doesnt even allow it.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don’t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...

This is how America is in general when you compare us to other countries. There's only 3 countries that spend more $/student (k-12) than we do, yet our teachers are paid significantly less, our classrooms have less funding for supplies, our buildings aren't any nicer, and the end result is in the upper 20's. Literally about 15 nations get better results than us on about half the $/student, all while paying teachers more.

There's a lot of reasons why the end result is bad. Unions keep bad teachers employed. Low pay doesn't attract the brightest teachers. We change the curriculum too fast for teachers to get a grip on how to teach it, and lately administrations have refused to discipline students (makes the school's statistics look bad if you have suspensions) so teachers have to fend for themselves. Administration, no doubt trying to avoid a lawsuit, then hangs the teachers out to dry if a parent comes crying. This is why teachers are quitting in record numbers now- they're asked to do the same job but with more paperwork, responsibility, and less backup from administration, all the while teaching spoiled brats that know no referral this teacher gives me will result in any punishment.

From a money perspective there are a few small things that eat it up. We do spend more defending lawsuits, spend more money on athletics, and spend more on special ed. However like you say, the biggest sump by far is this INSANE BLOATED ADMINISTRATION.

Administration used to be the support staff so the actual teachers could do their job. But then it kept expanding with no free market competition to drive out inefficiencies, and eventually administration became it's own political animal. That's where the political connections are, and that's where the 6 figure salaries are. Being a teacher and doing real work for 40k is for chumps, when you can work for administration filing paperwork and sucking off your bosses and you'll get a 6 figure salary. Ideas get judged by how nice it sounds to administration, not how it works in the classroom. We need to kill off literally 2/3 of non teachers staff

[MetEdDawg]

We have a lot of problems with high school education in Mississippi. Getting football players graduated early so they can go through spring practice in college is rather far down that list.

Oh trust me I know. We have a lot of the same problems here in Alabama. I teach in a good district butnwe sre 35-40% free and reduced lunch. Issues across the board. But I will say that some of the college advancement stuff we have available has helped kids across the demographic spectrum.

[bobcat91]

It starts at the top. Wright is a disaster as the leader of the Mississippi Department of Education. The list of her failures is legendary and the fact she is still employed is an indictment on the Board of Education for not firing her. The state of Mississippi is simply not interested in educating its students and in many cases, the students aren't interested either.

[Quaoarsking]

At my high school, it probably wouldn't have been possible because most classes last the whole year. I think you would have to basically finish everything by the end of 11th grade (which would include a summer session of at least an English) and just fill up the first half of your 12th grade year with semester electives like Art, Computer Science, etc. I'm sure the school would have worked with an elite athlete who was trying to do this, but it would have to be planned well in advance.

I know some high schools in MS use a block system where you take one set of classes in the fall and another set in the spring, making this a lot easier -- is that a lot more common in other states than in Mississippi?

[MetEdDawg]

At my high school, it probably wouldn't have been possible because most classes last the whole year. I think you would have to basically finish everything by the end of 11th grade (which would include a summer session of at least an English) and just fill up the first half of your 12th grade year with semester electives like Art, Computer Science, etc. I'm sure the school would have worked with an elite athlete who was trying to do this, but it would have to be planned well in advance.

I know some high schools in MS use a block system where you take one set of classes in the fall and another set in the spring, making this a lot easier -- is that a lot more common in other states than in Mississippi?

Block systems were the thing, then they went away, now they are coming back. They suck to teach (I know from personal experience) but a lot of schools on block can do that for athletes or other kids that want to get out early. Just load up 1st semester senior year with core classes and you are good to go.

The summer online stuff is what is becoming so popular now. Kids can hammer out a couple semester or even year long courses in 4 weeks now. Spend 3-5 hours a day on a course and you can get the standards done pretty rapidly. That is what is growing so much now and it's a trend I would expect to continue.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don’t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...
MS sup’s make waaaay more than 65k, unless you’re talking 1A delta sup’s. Shit, in 2017 two 6A coast schools paid their football coaches, who don’t teach, over 100k to have losing records.

[RocketDawg]

This is nuts but it's becoming more commonplace. Alabama just releases superintendent salaries and many of them are above $180,000.

The thing I don't get is that there are tons of services and companies you can pay for to get kids in certified online classes that are NCAA clearinghouse approved and it's not that terribly difficult to set up at a school. It just baffles me that more athletes in MS aren't able to get out of high school a semester early. Systems don't lose money or teaching units because the kids are there 1st semester when attendance is counted for that kind of stuff.

I will say our head coaches of certain sports make more than double what I do and central office staff get paid very well. I'm just stunned that universities haven't stepped in to try and get more kids out of high school a semester early so they can get on campus and get into the weight programs earlier.

Alabama has made a massive push to expand online offerings and dual enrollment options for kids. It could really benefit us if we could get 4-5 more in state kids in school a semester earlier.

The Huntsville superintendent who just left was right at $200K (last I heard he might become an assisistant sec of the Navy; why, I don't know). Madison County Alabama salary scales for comparison, and Alabama is on the low end nationally from what I've heard:
https://4.files.edl.io/7b14/09/05/18/181942-f6503d70-cb22-40cf-92c6-9a267bb444a1.pdf I don't know how this compares to Mississippi.

[BrunswickDawg]

Block systems were the thing, then they went away, now they are coming back. They suck to teach (I know from personal experience) but a lot of schools on block can do that for athletes or other kids that want to get out early. Just load up 1st semester senior year with core classes and you are good to go.

The summer online stuff is what is becoming so popular now. Kids can hammer out a couple semester or even year long courses in 4 weeks now. Spend 3-5 hours a day on a course and you can get the standards done pretty rapidly. That is what is growing so much now and it's a trend I would expect to continue.

Georgia is a lot more flexible, and has also been pushing kids into dual enrollment. They have also done some little things that help like letting 8th grade Physical Science and Algebra count for high school credit. Makes it a lot easier to graduate early. My son could have graduated in December, but we didn’t let him because he can take 4 classes at the college for free instead.

[MetEdDawg]

Georgia is a lot more flexible, and has also been pushing kids into dual enrollment. They have also done some little things that help like letting 8th grade Physical Science and Algebra count for high school credit. Makes it a lot easier to graduate early. My son could have graduated in December, but we didn’t let him because he can take 4 classes at the college for free instead.

Georgia is a good 15-20 years ahead of Alabama who is a good 10-15 years ahead of MS. Georgia has really made significant strides in a lot of areas and their kids are benefitting from it tremendously. The 8th grade stuff you mentioned is absolutely huge. Game changer.

[Liverpooldawg]

It starts at the top. Wright is a disaster as the leader of the Mississippi Department of Education. The list of her failures is legendary and the fact she is still employed is an indictment on the Board of Education for not firing her. The state of Mississippi is simply not interested in educating its students and in many cases, the students aren't interested either.

Agree on Wright. You last statement should start with "Mississippi parents are not interested.....". Education starts with the parents, it always has and always will. Sure there are always exceptions, but those are in the nature of exceptions that prove the rule. THE best predictor of educational outcomes is the education level of the parents. We won't pull our stats up until there are more jobs in more fields that keep highly educated people in Mississippi to raise their families. If you want to raise education levels, that's how you really do it.

[Rayburn8]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don?t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...


Did a research paper on education spending last semester. The reality is schools have little impact on students. The majority of school impact happens at home and what happens there decides the outcomes.

There is a lot wrong with Mississippi education and the primary issues are at home and cultural.

[BrunswickDawg]

Georgia is a good 15-20 years ahead of Alabama who is a good 10-15 years ahead of MS. Georgia has really made significant strides in a lot of areas and their kids are benefitting from it tremendously. The 8th grade stuff you mentioned is absolutely huge. Game changer.

It's shocking what a difference 2 classes can make in terms of scheduling. The policy is pretty new - I think my daughter's class ('17) was the first to get to count Algebra, and my son's class is the 2nd to count Physical Sci.

The big leap GA has made is with dual enrollment. It's kind of the secret benefit of the HOPE program. You can start taking college classes as early as 9th grade now - at no cost. They even provide books. My daughter didn't do it, but my son started it the 2nd half of his Junior year. His only class at the high school his Senior year has been Percussion. By the time he graduates this May he will have 25 credit hours in, and will only have a Lit class, a lab science, and foreign language left to take to satisfy his core curriculum in college. That is setting him up to complete a 5 year Bachelors/Masters program in 4 years - and will save a ton of money.

Programs like that is where MS is getting left behind - fast. Part of that is not MS's fault either. There is no way the population could support a university system the size that GA has. But what GA did was pretty brilliant. They transitioned most of their JUCOs to 4 year schools with limited degree offerings. Some of the smaller ones (like College of Coastal Georgia here in Brunswick) still offer more Associates programs then Bachelors and serve the same feeder purpose that they used to. They then geared what Bachelors programs they have to important parts of the local economy (here it's Hospitality management, culinary, education, nursing, criminal justice). GA then replaced the JUCOs with a robust Technical school program.

While MS doesn't have as broad of University system in place - they could utilize the JUCOs more progressively to serve the same role for dual enrollment.

[TUSK]

The problem???

I'm gonna go with "Mommas & Daddys" and lay the points on this one...

And I place a second (parlay) bet on "Mommas & Daddys" + "Bureaucracy/Government" at 2:1...

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

The kids can?t do it themselves and teachers can only do so much...it's got to be important at home too.

[BB30]

Ok guys. I teach here in Alabama and I just watched 4 kids from the high school I teach at graduate early to go play D1 football. (2 in the SEC West)

Does anyone know what is going on in MS and why kids aren't getting on plans to graduate early? You don't have to be a genius to do it. But does anyone know why MS is so far behind getting kids to graduate early so they can enroll early?

One of the big things killing our program is not getting kids on campus early. We had 5 enroll early and one was Sharp who was in JUCO. For comparison, Bama had 12, Auburn had 9, TAMU had 8. Does anyone know what's going on? There are so many online resources out there for kids to do during the summer to get classes done early that I am stunned schools aren't getting more kids out early.

Try comparing hoover and most of the B ham schools along with many other large bama schools to the Jackson public school system. Bama just has better schools(no offense to anyone teaching in JPS). Same can be said for a lot of the public schools in the Delta. We just don't have a plethora of great academic public schools in certain areas. Yes there are several but a large majority are lacking.

[JohnHenryBonham]

Mississippi spends way too much $$$$ on Administration and not enough on actual Education.....only about 25% of education dollars actually go to teaching/instruction...... 75% goes to Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Program Directors, Grant writers, Principals, Asst Principals, CONSULTANTS, Disciplinary Administrators, Admin Staffs, Transportation Directors, Maintenance Directors, Athletic Directors, Coaches who don?t teach classes, Special Education Directors, secretaries, asst. secretaries, Etc.... Heck the County I live in pays a School Maintenance Director $65K and he contracts out all the Maintenance.... the majority of all these positions are filled by friends and relatives of the Superintendent...
And you really believe this? I agree too much is spent on support but a lot of that is because of demands put on the districts by MDE. Plus our legislature is completely out of touch with education and they believe figures like yours.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Reading this thread piqued my interest since I sleep with a teacher every night. Several good points included.

If you'd like to see what your school superintendents make, check it out here. https://app.box.com/s/cfk3o65hbtljh6oqzyr1c19stgyivtna You will see what they make, all the while my wife makes a pittance compared, and gets to listen to me bitch when she has to come home to make copies of handouts for her students using my paper, ink and printer because she is not provided with it at her school. Your fist thought is that she must teach at a small, poor school district. Wrong; she teaches at one of the largest that constantly has one of the top three statewide scores on testing and such. Most times the best. Pisses me off to no end.

eta....just realized, the link is to the 2015 salary schedule. No doubt, even higher now.

[Jack Lambert]

And you really believe this? I agree too much is spent on support but a lot of that is because of demands put on the districts by MDE. Plus our legislature is completely out of touch with education and they believe figures like yours.

We do have way too many Superintendents. Why does Clinton, Pearl and Canton have Superintendent? Just add those school districts to Madison, Hinds and Rankin counties school districts. Right there a lone is 300K plus a year that could be used somewhere else.

Put it into perspective:

North Tippa School district has 1385 Students.
Yazoo City School district has 2822 students.
Pearl School district has 3849 students.
Hazelhurst school district. has 1174 Students.
I can go on with this.

We have way too many superintendents and school district. Small district should be eliminated and combined with larger ones to save money.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

We do have way too many Superintendents. Why does Clinton, Pearl and Canton have Superintendent? Just add those school districts to Madison, Hinds and Rankin counties school districts. Right there a lone is 300K plus a year that could be used somewhere else.

Put it into perspective:

North Tippa School district has 1385 Students.
Yazoo City School district has 2822 students.
Pearl School district has 3849 students.
Hazelhurst school district. has 1174 Students.
I can go on with this.

We have way too many superintendents and school district. Small district should be eliminated and combined with larger ones to save money.

No, no, no that makes too much sense! Let's just throw more money at it and everything will be fine*******************************************

[Dawg2003]

The government just isn't very good at running things. Public education is no different.

[BeardoMSU]

The government just isn't very good at running things. Public education is no different.

So what is your solution? Make it all private? You think there is a lack of parity now, holy cow...

[Cooterpoot]

Our schools have also become a political tool of hiring locals who suck as humans and educators but have large families that vote.

[fader2103]

The kids can?t do it themselves and teachers can only do so much...it's got to be important at home too.

This all day long

[TrapGame]

Speaking of Georgia schools, my mother taught with a lady that graduated from Delta State with an elementary ed degree. She told my mother that Delta State was one of the colleges Georgia schools were headhunting. It seemed back in the eighties (I don't know about today) that a DSU ed degree was highly favored in certain areas. This lady moved to Georgia with her daughter (she was divorced) and made DOUBLE what teachers were making in MS at the time.

And what's sad is a lot of out of state kids come to us b/c they can't get into home state universities. I went through orientation at ole miss in '89 with the daughter of Exxon's CFO (out of Dallas). She was fine as hell but dumb as a bag of hammers.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's shocking what a difference 2 classes can make in terms of scheduling. The policy is pretty new - I think my daughter's class ('17) was the first to get to count Algebra, and my son's class is the 2nd to count Physical Sci.

The big leap GA has made is with dual enrollment. It's kind of the secret benefit of the HOPE program. You can start taking college classes as early as 9th grade now - at no cost. They even provide books. My daughter didn't do it, but my son started it the 2nd half of his Junior year. His only class at the high school his Senior year has been Percussion. By the time he graduates this May he will have 25 credit hours in, and will only have a Lit class, a lab science, and foreign language left to take to satisfy his core curriculum in college. That is setting him up to complete a 5 year Bachelors/Masters program in 4 years - and will save a ton of money.

Programs like that is where MS is getting left behind - fast. Part of that is not MS's fault either. There is no way the population could support a university system the size that GA has. But what GA did was pretty brilliant. They transitioned most of their JUCOs to 4 year schools with limited degree offerings. Some of the smaller ones (like College of Coastal Georgia here in Brunswick) still offer more Associates programs then Bachelors and serve the same feeder purpose that they used to. They then geared what Bachelors programs they have to important parts of the local economy (here it's Hospitality management, culinary, education, nursing, criminal justice). GA then replaced the JUCOs with a robust Technical school program.

While MS doesn't have as broad of University system in place - they could utilize the JUCOs more progressively to serve the same role for dual enrollment.

My son graduated with some college credit from a very small rural county school in Mississippi.

[MetEdDawg]

My son graduated with some college credit from a very small rural county school in Mississippi.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There are opportunities in the smallest and most rural schools. This is why I think administration is a much bigger indicator of some of the stuff we are talking about. If you can get these opportunities in a small rural school, these bigger school districts with a crap ton more money and resources can do the same.

I am a firm believer that effective administration can sometimes make more difference for kids than parents can. The only thing that can even come close to imposing itself on home culture and climate is school culture and climate, and that is directly related to administrative goings on. If admin can find opportunities for kids and present opportunities for kids and get teachers to buy in, they can make a massive difference in this generation. Obviously there are some parents and some teachers that don't care. Can't do anything about those in most situations. But admin can make a significant impact in many situations by providing these opportunities. And like I said, universities are doing so much more partnering with school systems now because they recognize there is money to be made for them.

[MetEdDawg]

Try comparing hoover and most of the B ham schools along with many other large bama schools to the Jackson public school system. Bama just has better schools(no offense to anyone teaching in JPS). Same can be said for a lot of the public schools in the Delta. We just don't have a plethora of great academic public schools in certain areas. Yes there are several but a large majority are lacking.

Well I will say this. I am extremely familiar with Hoover and other systems in the area because I am in one of the other systems that directly competes with Hoover. You are absolutely right that many of the bigger schools in MS can't hold a candle to the bigger schools in AL. There is going to have to be a major change in the way school is done in MS. Got too many schools. The whole public private thing is very very bad in the grand scheme of things. By combining resources there would be much greater opportunities for all students rather than splitting all the money.

From 2013 it says that Alabama had 744,637 students enrolled in 1,637 schools in 173 school districts.

From 2013, it says that Mississippi had 493,650 students enrolled in 1,063 in 162 school districts

So in Mississippi there 250,000 fewer enrolled kids in only 11 fewer school districts. Talk about an absolute waste of resources. Think of the population and child difference, then think about how there are only 11 fewer school districts. Think about all of the extra administrative pay, all of the central office pay, all the extra superintendent pay, that goes in there. That's where your waste of resources is. That is absolutely terrible.

[BrunswickDawg]

Speaking of Georgia schools, my mother taught with a lady that graduated from Delta State with an elementary ed degree. She told my mother that Delta State was one of the colleges Georgia schools were headhunting. It seemed back in the eighties (I don't know about today) that a DSU ed degree was highly favored in certain areas. This lady moved to Georgia with her daughter (she was divorced) and made DOUBLE what teachers were making in MS at the time.

And what's sad is a lot of out of state kids come to us b/c they can't get into home state universities. I went through orientation at ole miss in '89 with the daughter of Exxon's CFO (out of Dallas). She was fine as hell but dumb as a bag of hammers.

The teacher recruiting is true - especially in the 70s and 80s. DSU had a great rep and Georgia recruited them like crazy. I know my best teacher in high school in Marietta was a DSU alum

[JohnHenryBonham]

We do have way too many Superintendents. Why does Clinton, Pearl and Canton have Superintendent? Just add those school districts to Madison, Hinds and Rankin counties school districts. Right there a lone is 300K plus a year that could be used somewhere else.

Put it into perspective:

North Tippa School district has 1385 Students.
Yazoo City School district has 2822 students.
Pearl School district has 3849 students.
Hazelhurst school district. has 1174 Students.
I can go on with this.

We have way too many superintendents and school district. Small district should be eliminated and combined with larger ones to save money.

I agree we need county wide consolidation of school districts and central offices so there is only one superintendent and one central office per county. But that is on the county and state to fix not the school district.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well I will say this. I am extremely familiar with Hoover and other systems in the area because I am in one of the other systems that directly competes with Hoover. You are absolutely right that many of the bigger schools in MS can't hold a candle to the bigger schools in AL. There is going to have to be a major change in the way school is done in MS. Got too many schools. The whole public private thing is very very bad in the grand scheme of things. By combining resources there would be much greater opportunities for all students rather than splitting all the money.

From 2013 it says that Alabama had 744,637 students enrolled in 1,637 schools in 173 school districts.

From 2013, it says that Mississippi had 493,650 students enrolled in 1,063 in 162 school districts

So in Mississippi there 250,000 fewer enrolled kids in only 11 fewer school districts. Talk about an absolute waste of resources. Think of the population and child difference, then think about how there are only 11 fewer school districts. Think about all of the extra administrative pay, all of the central office pay, all the extra superintendent pay, that goes in there. That's where your waste of resources is. That is absolutely terrible.

This will make you sick then -

Georgia educates 1.6 million students in 2,200 schools in 181 school districts. Keep in mind - Georgia has 159 counties to Mississippi's 82 and only has 19 more school districts. So that means only 22 counties that have multiple districts (most of those 22 systems are City run - Atlanta, Cartersville, Calhoun, Marietta, all come to mind) while Mississippi has almost 2 districts for every county, and that doesn't include what resources the private schools are bleeding away (mostly through brain drain and lack of parental support for schools). WTF?

Seriously, I don't think I realized it was so out of whack. So what gives? Is it local politics? Too much "pride" about having a "local" school district? Not wanting your kids to go to school with "others" of some kind? And that is not a race thing - people in 1 community always have a neighboring community they look down on - Growing up in Marietta it was the kids in Smyrna and Kennesaw we made fun of - no one wanted to go to school with them. MS really needs to force consolidation.

[WinningIsRelentless]

This will make you sick then -

Georgia educates 1.6 million students in 2,200 schools in 181 school districts. Keep in mind - Georgia has 159 counties to Mississippi's 82 and only has 19 more school districts. So that means only 22 counties that have multiple districts (most of those 22 systems are City run - Atlanta, Cartersville, Calhoun, Marietta, all come to mind) while Mississippi has almost 2 districts for every county, and that doesn't include what resources the private schools are bleeding away (mostly through brain drain and lack of parental support for schools). WTF?

Seriously, I don't think I realized it was so out of whack. So what gives? Is it local politics? Too much "pride" about having a "local" school district? Not wanting your kids to go to school with "others" of some kind? And that is not a race thing - people in 1 community always have a neighboring community they look down on - Growing up in Marietta it was the kids in Smyrna and Kennesaw we made fun of - no one wanted to go to school with them. MS really needs to force consolidation.

Local Politics. In a lot of the counties in MS the highest paying jobs are working for the counties. MS would be wise to reduce the number of counties in half if not more than that.

[MadDawg]

This has been something I've been harping about for 20 years. Most everyone in this thread gets it. Too much waste.

And as far as consolidating school districts goes, this is how it goes down. Most people are all for it, UNTIL they start talking about consolidating THEIR school, then it's suddenly not ok.

[Dawg2003]

So what is your solution? Make it all private? You think there is a lack of parity now, holy cow...

Actually yes. My solution, which is the usual libertarian solution, would be something like the voucher program we have now. It's an interesting discussion with some cons of course, but it's way too off topic for this thread and forum.

[Dawg2003]

And what's sad is a lot of out of state kids come to us b/c they can't get into home state universities. I went through orientation at ole miss in '89 with the daughter of Exxon's CFO (out of Dallas). She was fine as hell but dumb as a bag of hammers.

I had a cousin who got stuck at Ole Miss because she couldn't get into UGA or Auburn. She enjoyed it in the end, but she had a really hard time with it at first. She was from Alpharetta (like the Madsion of ATL), so moving to a rural MS town was a shock.

[Fred Garvin]

My son graduated with some college credit from a very small rural county school in Mississippi.

Just curious, does that school offer Advanced Placement courses?

[TrapGame]

I had a cousin who got stuck at Ole Miss because she couldn't get into UGA or Auburn. She enjoyed it in the end, but she had a really hard time with it at first. She was from Alpharetta (like the Madsion of ATL), so moving to a rural MS town was a shock.

This chick drove up in a white '89 Corvette (graduation present from Daddy). Look liked an 80's porn star (big ass blonde hair). She sat next to me (we were seated in alphabetical order) and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Then I realized she was terminally blonde. Pity.

[Dawg2003]

This chick drove up in a white '89 Corvette (graduation present from Daddy). Look liked an 80's porn star (big ass blonde hair). She sat next to me (we were seated in alphabetical order) and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Then I realized she was terminally blonde. Pity.

This sounds similar to my cousin but in the early 2000s.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

You can consolidate districts without closing schools....align the school districts with the Highway Districts, contract out the Transportation and the Maintenance...this would enable you to have more schools with less overhead and pay teachers more..... why do you need two districts each in Lee, Union, Tate, Prentiss, Benton, Tippah and Tallahatchie Counties? How many school districts does Bolivar County have?

[viverlibre]

We do have way too many Superintendents. Why does Clinton, Pearl and Canton have Superintendent? Just add those school districts to Madison, Hinds and Rankin counties school districts. Right there a lone is 300K plus a year that could be used somewhere else.


Putting Clinton under Hinds County would drag Clinton (one the better districts) down. Putting Canton under Madison County would certainly lower the rating of Madison County (one of the best districts in the state). Purl would likely fit into Rankin County though.

Ensconced school board members, administrators and local publications would fight like hell to keep any of this from happening.

I agree with you, I'm just stating above why it won't happen.

[Hot Rock]

All sports should be eliminated from our schools and be placed in a sports and rec dept. That way people that teach run education rather than coaches.

We have way too many people in charge of schools that never teach a damn thing but play games with kids and get promoted somehow to principal because they wanted more money and were liked.

Not a single dime of education money should go to games that only a few get to play. Coaches the evil that has invaded our schools.

[RocketDawg]

This has been something I've been harping about for 20 years. Most everyone in this thread gets it. Too much waste.

And as far as consolidating school districts goes, this is how it goes down. Most people are all for it, UNTIL they start talking about consolidating THEIR school, then it's suddenly not ok.

Lauderdale County consolidated schools several years ago, but not sure there was district consolidation involved.

[DogsofAnarchy]

Ok guys. I teach here in Alabama and I just watched 4 kids from the high school I teach at graduate early to go play D1 football. (2 in the SEC West)

Does anyone know what is going on in MS and why kids aren't getting on plans to graduate early? You don't have to be a genius to do it. But does anyone know why MS is so far behind getting kids to graduate early so they can enroll early?

One of the big things killing our program is not getting kids on campus early. We had 5 enroll early and one was Sharp who was in JUCO. For comparison, Bama had 12, Auburn had 9, TAMU had 8. Does anyone know what's going on? There are so many online resources out there for kids to do during the summer to get classes done early that I am stunned schools aren't getting more kids out early.

Alabama does not have these ridiculous State Test like we have.

[BeardoMSU]

All sports should be eliminated from our schools and be placed in a sports and rec dept. That way people that teach run education rather than coaches.

We have way too many people in charge of schools that never teach a damn thing but play games with kids and get promoted somehow to principal because they wanted more money and were liked.

Not a single dime of education money should go to games that only a few get to play. Coaches the evil that has invaded our schools.

Your take is a tad extreme, but I agree that coaches should coach, and leave the teaching to the teachers....sadly, the reason football coaches have to teach history, health, MS studies, etc., is because school districts can't afford proper teachers to do it, so they just go cheap instead....

[MetEdDawg]

Alabama does not have these ridiculous State Test like we have.

Actually we do. We have to give the Pre ACT to all 10th graders. Then as 11th graders we have to give them the ACT. Then at the end of the year we get a grade from the state based on how much our kids grew from 10th to 11th grade and we also get measured on how high our 11th graders achieved on the ACT.

Now I'm not entirely sure what testing is going on in MS, but Alabama now hands out grades based on the ACT and it sucks.

[RougeDawg]

This has been something I've been harping about for 20 years. Most everyone in this thread gets it. Too much waste.

And as far as consolidating school districts goes, this is how it goes down. Most people are all for it, UNTIL they start talking about consolidating THEIR school, then it's suddenly not ok.

Anytime the government is involved there will be waste. Other people, spending other peoples money, on other people,
Is The least efficient means by which to do things.

[TUSK]

Actually we do. We have to give the Pre ACT to all 10th graders. Then as 11th graders we have to give them the ACT. Then at the end of the year we get a grade from the state based on how much our kids grew from 10th to 11th grade and we also get measured on how high our 11th graders achieved on the ACT.

Now I'm not entirely sure what testing is going on in MS, but Alabama now hands out grades based on the ACT and it sucks.

Is that why a "30" on the ACT ain't what it used to be???

[sack07]

W
Actually we do. We have to give the Pre ACT to all 10th graders. Then as 11th graders we have to give them the ACT. Then at the end of the year we get a grade from the state based on how much our kids grew from 10th to 11th grade and we also get measured on how high our 11th graders achieved on the ACT.

Now I'm not entirely sure what testing is going on in MS, but Alabama now hands out grades based on the ACT and it sucks.

Do you find it tough to motivate the 10th graders taking a pre ACT?

In Mississippi we do give the ACT to 11th graders and that score is built into the school’s accountability score (along with the state test scores).

[BeardoMSU]

Anytime the government is involved there will be waste. Other people, spending other peoples money, on other people,
Is The least efficient means by which to do things.

And in the private sector, there's always greed....other people, trying to get as much of other people's money as possible.******

Obviously meant in jest. But seriously, the whole 'gubment can't do nothin' right' argument is so tired. It does plenty right. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially when its in regard to MS education...which has been dysfunctional for decades, under the leadership of all political varieties.

[MetEdDawg]

W

Do you find it tough to motivate the 10th graders taking a pre ACT?

In Mississippi we do give the ACT to 11th graders and that score is built into the school’s accountability score (along with the state test scores).

Actually I've found that it's the 11th graders who are hard to motivate. By the time our kids get to 11th grade they've taken at least the Pre ACT. Many of them have taken the real ACT at least once but sometimes more than that. We also make them take a mock ACT WorkKeys and listen to someone from ACT talk to the kids about testing and their scores. And our school is pushing us to incorporate ACT into our curriculum every single day.

So in 10th grade they aren't as jaded on the standardized test stuff. But once they get to 11th grade they are burned out from it. So I've found that the 11th graders can't stand it and hate talking about it. I can usually get my 10th graders jazzed about the Pre ACT because I'll spend a day going through their scores and their demographic data with them individually and they like that. But once they get to 11th grade so few of them care anymore because they are tired of it.

[sack07]

Actually I've found that it's the 11th graders who are hard to motivate. By the time our kids get to 11th grade they've taken at least the Pre ACT. Many of them have taken the real ACT at least once but sometimes more than that. We also make them take a mock ACT WorkKeys and listen to someone from ACT talk to the kids about testing and their scores. And our school is pushing us to incorporate ACT into our curriculum every single day.

So in 10th grade they aren't as jaded on the standardized test stuff. But once they get to 11th grade they are burned out from it. So I've found that the 11th graders can't stand it and hate talking about it. I can usually get my 10th graders jazzed about the Pre ACT because I'll spend a day going through their scores and their demographic data with them individually and they like that. But once they get to 11th grade so few of them care anymore because they are tired of it.

I will say that I think Mississippi does it right (arguments against standardized testing notwithstanding) in that the ACT scores that go in to the accountability scores are taken from the student?s best score of all ACTs taken; not just the ACT given to all 11th graders at school.

[RougeDawg]

And in the private sector, there's always greed....other people, trying to get as much of other people's money as possible.******

Obviously meant in jest. But seriously, the whole 'gubment can't do nothin' right' argument is so tired. It does plenty right. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially when its in regard to MS education...which has been dysfunctional for decades, under the leadership of all political varieties.

Ok. I?ll ask this. What does government do better than the private sector that each has the ability to do? It cannot be a government only area such as national defense? Even though I could argue a private organization would spend the money much more frugally than the government and stretch the budget farther.

Just look at net neutrality for one prime example. Prior to being removed, internet companies were not investing in their infrastructure and increasing speeds. Government was attempting to control industry. Fast forward to present day (18 months or so) and our internet speeds have increased from #12 world wide to #5. This is in very short order and would never occur under government control.

Another is space exploration. Currently we are spending less to do more on space exploration because we are using private organizations tbat cannot simply print money and continue building upon 21 trillion in debt and 50+ trillion in future liability debt.

Mississippi dysfunction is a microcosm of our national dysfunction. One side always feels like the victim and makes something out of nothing. They use emotion and fear to maintain the status quo. Look at how far behind the state is on alcohol sales, among other things. Lottery another. Mississippi is a state full of too many status quo leaders on both sides.

Bottom line is the private sector cannot successfully operate outside of their own budget. Government entities do routinely and either print more money or increase taxes. There is no accountability in government aside from the ballot box but these days it does not matter how you vote, they all spend like drunken sailors.

[Hot Rock]

Lauderdale County consolidated schools several years ago, but not sure there was district consolidation involved.
I agree my take is extreme but it?s going take extreme to get the coaches out of running schools. The problem is they have plenty money for teachers. If they didn?t they would not let fake teachers leave after three hours of fake teaching to go to feild house to play solitaire. Unless you make teaching your life, you simply cannot teach other teachers how to teach. Putting a coach in charge of a school is like taking a HS water boy and hiring him to be an NFL HC. Coaches are no different than the rest of us, many or most are nice fine people but they should never be a principal unless their primary focus was teaching and not playing games. I could list a hundred stupid things I have heard a coach did tha a real teacher would not. They simply are not prepared to lead a school.

[Dawg2003]

And in the private sector, there's always greed....other people, trying to get as much of other people's money as possible.******

Obviously meant in jest. But seriously, the whole 'gubment can't do nothin' right' argument is so tired. It does plenty right. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially when its in regard to MS education...which has been dysfunctional for decades, under the leadership of all political varietiesd.

The government is also greedy. They are constantly coming up with new ways to tax us, and government programs are largely ineffective due to no competition. This can be illustrated by looking at hospitals like the VA/UMMC vs. private hospitals. Immense waste occurs on the scale that tax payers will never know. The private sector isn't perfect, but anything run by the government is much worse.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Maybe you are to easy of a teacher.

"too"

[Lord McBuckethead]

At my high school, it probably wouldn't have been possible because most classes last the whole year. I think you would have to basically finish everything by the end of 11th grade (which would include a summer session of at least an English) and just fill up the first half of your 12th grade year with semester electives like Art, Computer Science, etc. I'm sure the school would have worked with an elite athlete who was trying to do this, but it would have to be planned well in advance.

I know some high schools in MS use a block system where you take one set of classes in the fall and another set in the spring, making this a lot easier -- is that a lot more common in other states than in Mississippi?

This is the thing. When I was in high school they had a requirement that you had to have 4 credits in English. All of the English classes were full year classes. They didn't offer an option where you could take high school english and literature classes in 7th or 8th grade like you could with Pre-Algebra and Algebra I. Although, even with the math classes, you didn't get high school credit for taking it in 7th or 8th grade.

[BrunswickDawg]

This is the thing. When I was in high school they had a requirement that you had to have 4 credits in English. All of the English classes were full year classes. They didn't offer an option where you could take high school english and literature classes in 7th or 8th grade like you could with Pre-Algebra and Algebra I. Although, even with the math classes, you didn't get high school credit for taking it in 7th or 8th grade.

A shift to block scheduling would solve this. We do it locally here. Some classes are completed in a semester and are 90 minutes daily. Some classes are "skinny" and go all year, 45 minutes daily. So, depending on how you work your schedule, you can do some things like get your 2 required foreign language classes knocked out in 1 year instead of 2. A lot of the classes are offered both ways - a year long skinny or a block in the spring leading into the AP tests.

It makes it very easy to graduate early.

[SheltonChoked]

Ok. I?ll ask this. What does government do better than the private sector that each has the ability to do? It cannot be a government only area such as national defense? Even though I could argue a private organization would spend the money much more frugally than the government and stretch the budget farther.

Just look at net neutrality for one prime example. Prior to being removed, internet companies were not investing in their infrastructure and increasing speeds. Government was attempting to control industry. Fast forward to present day (18 months or so) and our internet speeds have increased from #12 world wide to #5. This is in very short order and would never occur under government control.

Another is space exploration. Currently we are spending less to do more on space exploration because we are using private organizations tbat cannot simply print money and continue building upon 21 trillion in debt and 50+ trillion in future liability debt.

Mississippi dysfunction is a microcosm of our national dysfunction. One side always feels like the victim and makes something out of nothing. They use emotion and fear to maintain the status quo. Look at how far behind the state is on alcohol sales, among other things. Lottery another. Mississippi is a state full of too many status quo leaders on both sides.

Bottom line is the private sector cannot successfully operate outside of their own budget. Government entities do routinely and either print more money or increase taxes. There is no accountability in government aside from the ballot box but these days it does not matter how you vote, they all spend like drunken sailors.


Defense

Administer Justice.

Roads.

Ports.

Air traffic control.

Police.

Disaster Relief

Parks

Fire departments.

Protect the environment

Protect workers

Research

Standardization.

Protect minorities.

Space exploration ( Nasa went to the moon 50 years ago, and 3 objects that have left the solar system, space x has a car in orbit....)

Deep sea exploration

Flood control

The power grid (new deal and CCC built TVA)

The internet (coming in at the end is like saying you are better at roads since you paved your driveway)

Really all infrastructure

[SailingDawg]

Ok guys. I teach here in Alabama and I just watched 4 kids from the high school I teach at graduate early to go play D1 football. (2 in the SEC West)

Does anyone know what is going on in MS and why kids aren't getting on plans to graduate early? You don't have to be a genius to do it. But does anyone know why MS is so far behind getting kids to graduate early so they can enroll early?



We had two in Gulfport enroll in a D1 school in the spring semester.

What's Alabama's population compared to Mississippi?

[MetEdDawg]

We had two in Gulfport enroll in a D1 school in the spring semester.

What's Alabama's population compared to Mississippi?

2017 numbers say Alabama has about 2 million more people than MS. 2.98 million for MS and 4.8 for AL

[TUSK]

Defense

Administer Justice.

Roads.

Ports.

Air traffic control.

Police.

Disaster Relief

Parks

Fire departments.

Protect the environment

Protect workers

Research

Standardization.

Protect minorities.

Space exploration ( Nasa went to the moon 50 years ago, and 3 objects that have left the solar system, space x has a car in orbit....)

Deep sea exploration

Flood control

The power grid (new deal and CCC built TVA)

The internet (coming in at the end is like saying you are better at roads since you paved your driveway)

Really all infrastructure

wow.

[Mimi's Babies]

This area started allowing early graduation Within the last five years. They want the money...

Exit exams are given In December and May for the schools on the MODIFIED BLOCK and the BLOCK schedule schools only in MISSISSIPPI.
So those schools not on either of these schedules take year long classes and cannot test until May. Thus no early entry for those Ath. It all goes back to the local school boards.

Help the teachers and rid MS of state TESTING EXIT EXAM at the cost of $110 million dollars a year.

[Mimi's Babies]

Just curious, does that school offer Advanced Placement courses?

There are plenty of advance placement classes in some schools
Dual enrollment is much better for many local students.
No exit exam for dual enrollment classes where there is for advanced placement. Plus no cost to parents.

[Mimi's Babies]

Standardized testing....
10th grade
English 2
Biology
Algebra

11th grade
Us History

Mississippi exit exam schedule. This state starts testing April 15 and test until May 15.... In nearly every District.

This does not include the ACT TEST given 4 times per year and twice at school. That the children are given the opportunity to take it.
Act is required in the 11 grade.