South Carolina thoughts/recap

[jwells]

South Carolina (7-7, 2-0 SEC) 87
Mississippi State (12-2, 0-1 SEC) 82
Final/OT

What an incredibly disappointing opener. For a number of reasons, this was a game Mississippi State didn't need to lose. However, the Dogs played right into the hands of a hard-nosed South Carolina team and came up short. I don't know how any of you feel but I feel let down because I have thought the team had turned the corner. As a fan who wants support and a packed Hump, it feels like these games happen too often over the last couple of years. Just when their is support building and a big time home game on the horizon, the team will lose a frustrating game and we go back to square one trying to convince the casual fan to stay with them. I encourage you that there are still reasons to believe in this team if the appropriate adjustments can be made. SEC road games are very tough and it is unfortunate we started with such a lowly rated team that will cause damage to the resume'.

South Carolina wants to get down and dirty and not allow you to get into any flow on offense because they don't have the horses to match up that way. Tonight, I felt we gave them exactly what they wanted. First, I'll start on defense because I think that's where the root of the problem was tonight. As I said in the preview, Chris Silva is what gets them going. After a few buckets. we adjusted to attempt to double the post any time he touched the ball. It was effective at first causing some errant passes and turnovers. The problems were the corresponding help moves. When Holman would double, the backside defender was a step slow rotating to cut off the pass to Kotsar, leading to him having a big game and severely hampering our rebounding, leading to far too many easy offensive rebounds. In my opinion, the backside help should cut off the post defender and make the pass go to the perimeter. If South Carolina made consistent outside shots, so be it, I highly doubt they would have. I also did not like our closeouts on shooters tonight. Too often approached the shooter without a hand up or a step slow in getting the hand up. Lastly, while these were negatives, when we committed to the defensive end in small spurts, the overall play of the team increased and led to the flow we were trying to establish on offense. If the team will commit to 40 minutes of defensive intensity, they will be okay. Tonight, it just wasn't there.

Offensively, like I said earlier, there was just no flow that we had been accustomed to seeing over the past few games. Most of that is attributed to what South Carolina does defensively. They are very physical and the refs allowed them to utilize that tonight. That's just how it is on the road in the SEC. With that being said, I did not care for some of our plans of attack. If the idea was to attack with penetration and make the extra pass for open shot or layup, that is what Lamar Peters is made for. I thought far too often we had Q in the position to drive. Teams have figured out that Q has a tough time finishing to his left side and is prone to turn it over on a straight-line drive. He does many things well, however, his finishing ability to his left side at the rim is not an area of strength. I thought a drive and kick from Lamar to the wings or underneath would have been very effective with the activeness of the Gamecock defense. Lastly, Aric Holman was 5-8 from 3 in the game and his screen and pop out move was very effective because the post defender did not the quickness to cover him on the perimeter. I did not understand why we went away from that when it came down the stretch and in OT. Also, 13-23 will not cut it at the free throw line. We went 1 for 2 way too much and that has to improve going forward. If we can get every one on the offense to play to their strengths and within the game, the pieces are still there and we saw them in flashes tonight. I thought Nick's mid-range game continues to be solid and Ado played well in the post.

I also thought Reggie Perry looked like a freshman tonight. It will happen from time to time and you could see him thinking more than he has and it led to him being out of position and out of control a couple of times. Overall, it is just one game but it does hurt the resume' quite badly. We will need to go on the road at some quality opponents and pull out some wins to counteract this. The team is very frustrating to watch at times but don't quit on them and let's pack the Hump Saturday and get back on track against Ole Miss.

Thanks and let me know what y'all thought about last night.

[RougeDawg]

Great analysis. This team is definitely frustrating. Final Four talent with a NIT mindset would be how I sum them up.

[Jack Lambert]

I am pretty positive but I am going to say this anyways if they want to start filling the Hump up again and win the fans back they have to win those games. That team on had six wins on the season. It's hard to win on the road in the SEC but that was one they should have won.

[dawgday166]

Great analysis. This team is definitely frustrating. Final Four talent with a NIT mindset would be how I sum them up.

I may see Sweet 16/maybe Elite 8 talent but I don't think we have Final 4 talent. But then I haven't watched the upper tier teams this year like Duke/Nova. When I watched Kansas-Duke game in tourney last year ... both those teams would smoke ours by 20 or our best day. Nova was same way last year too.

[jwells]

I may see Sweet 16/maybe Elite 8 talent but I don't think we have Final 4 talent. But then I haven't watched the upper tier teams this year like Duke/Nova. When I watched Kansas-Duke game in tourney last year ... both those teams would smoke ours by 20 or our best day. Nova was same way last year too.

I Sweet 16 is what they are realistically capable of in my mind. If you watch Tennessee play, they will get after it for all 40 minutes. That's what we are lacking now. The drive to go all out and not get out worked the entire game. Love watching them but sucks they are in our league.

[dawgday166]

I Sweet 16 is what they are realistically capable of in my mind. If you watch Tennessee play, they will get after it for all 40 minutes. That's what we are lacking now. The drive to go all out and not get out worked the entire game. Love watching them but sucks they are in our league.

That's what I'm talking about right there and we don't do that. But even if we do, Duke/KU/Nova from last year would smoke us. Too much length w/speed & quickness and talent on those 3 teams.

[Commercecomet24]

Great assessment. I always look first at what's happening defensively. We appeared to be a little lazy defensively, a step slow getting to our spots, not moving our feet, no hands in shooters faces, etc., and that's what disappointed me the most. Playing on the road in the SEC is always tough no matter the sport and these losses happen sometimes. I feel the long layoff may have had something to with our sluggish play(that happens sometimes). That being said we can't have that slow moving defense going forward. Our teams under Howland always seem to pick up steam as the conference season goes along and I believe we'll see it again. I think last nights game was an anomaly and not a trend.

[RougeDawg]

I may see Sweet 16/maybe Elite 8 talent but I don't think we have Final 4 talent. But then I haven't watched the upper tier teams this year like Duke/Nova. When I watched Kansas-Duke game in tourney last year ... both those teams would smoke ours by 20 or our best day. Nova was same way last year too.

It was meant more symbolism than Substance. Similar to SloMo taking a top 10 team to being unranked at the end of the year. Doing less with more was the point. We seem to be in that category more often than we are not. In all sports.

[dawgday166]

It was meant more symbolism than Substance. Similar to SloMo taking a top 10 team to being unranked at the end of the year. Doing less with more was the point. We seem to be in that category more often than we are not. In all sports.

That caused a chuckle and is very spot on. The life of an MSU homer haha.

[jwells]

Great assessment. I always look first at what's happening defensively. We appeared to be a little lazy defensively, a step slow getting to our spots, not moving our feet, no hands in shooters faces, etc., and that's what disappointed me the most. Playing on the road in the SEC is always tough no matter the sport and these losses happen sometimes. I feel the long layoff may have had something to with our sluggish play(that happens sometimes). That being said we can't have that slow moving defense going forward. Our teams under Howland always seem to pick up steam as the conference season goes along and I believe we'll see it again. I think last nights game was an anomaly and not a trend.

That's true. We have gotten better as the season has gone on in recent years. Hopefully we refocus and get back to playing winning defense and the rest will improve from that.

[RougeDawg]

I am pretty positive but I am going to say this anyways if they want to start filling the Hump up again and win the fans back they have to win those games. That team on had six wins on the season. It's hard to win on the road in the SEC but that was one they should have won.

We cannot continue to allow opponent players to have career nights against us. From Stands to present day, we seem to have a plan to shut down one player, allow other guys opportunities, and never adjust when those guys start lighting up the scoreboard. It?s as if we think those guys cannot keep making baskets, and they typically keep filling it up. Even our Roberts/Bowers teams allowed this shit. It?s actually quite astonishing how many career nights MSU basketball teams have allowed over the last 20 seasons that I?ve been paying attention.

[dawgday166]

We cannot continue to allow opponent players to have career nights against us. From Stands to present day, we seem to have a plan to shut down one player, allow other guys opportunities, and never adjust when those guys start lighting up the scoreboard. It?s as if we think those guys cannot keep making baskets, and they typically keep filling it up. Even our Roberts/Bowers teams allowed this shit. It?s actually quite astonishing how many career nights MSU basketball teams have allowed over the last 20 seasons that I?ve been paying attention.

We need a Winsome Frazier or 2 on this team. That guy could play some D.

[tcdog70]

Pretty simple-just make your free throws and we win. I think we have been a leader in free throw %. we missed 10 free throws--some front ends. for Me the way the game was going--I would have preferred for Nick or Arich to have taken the shots in OT.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Good write up. I think I'm on the same page. Here are my takeaways, with pretty much echo yours:

(1) Make your damn free throws. Up until last night, we'd be doing that in most games. We're hitting 74% on the season, which is roughly top 50 nationally. Last night we missed 10 and went ~56% in a game that went to overtime. Come on, man. I know the road atmosphere makes it tougher (the majority of good-free-throw-shooting teams miss more on the road than they do at home, and we're no exception). But we didn't even come close to our road average on the season (69.6%). Super frustrating.

(2) Our defense has got to get better. It's shown flashes but that's not enough. The OP gave some great examples, but let me step back and give an overall look at this crap. So if you look at our team's overall offensive and defensive efficiency stats, the offense is in great shape and the defense is mediocre. We're 15th nationally in offensive efficiency and 83rd nationally in defensive efficiency. Now look at our opponent last night. Interestingly, their defense is far from the best we've played this year. South Carolina is essentially no better defensively than we are -- they're 92nd nationally in defensive efficiency. Ok, so that helps explain a little of how we were able to put up decent shooting numbers in an SEC road game. We weren't as efficient as our standard -- we average 1.124 points per possession and last night against SC we had .948 points per possession -- but so it goes. How about the flip side? Yeah, that proves our point. SC's offense is, on a national scale, putrid -- 252nd nationally in offensive efficiency. How did our defense fare against them? Yeah, SC raised their horrible offensive production against us. Now maybe SC's turning the corner after their win at Florida. But damn.

(3) This is actually an extension of No. 2 -- we've got get better at defensive rebounding. SC averages around 10 a game and are 115th nationally in offensive rebounding percentage. They got 16 last night and got them at a higher rate than their season average. Hell, not including 3 pointers, SC took 20 more shots against us than they're season average. Even with overtime, that's bogus. That's been a weak point of ours so far this season -- and an odd one given how good we are at offensive rebounding -- and it's got to improve.

Ok. Done venting. Tough road loss in OT to a weird team who's lost to our common opponents (Clemson and Wofford) but beaten Florida on the road.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Last night just wasn't our night. From their post player who can't dribble having a career high to the refs swallowing the whistle when we had the ball in the last 2 minutes and all of OT. We just couldn't catch a break. Now, saying all that we still should've won that one by 10+. We just have to learn how to handle road adversity. It was the one thing I was worried about with this team and I really thought that Dayton win solved those problems. Regardless, we can't let that loss beat us again Saturday. We need to win the next two so we can head into Memorial Gym with a little bit of momentum. Lastly, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD EVERYONE PLEASE SHOW UP SATURDAY. We're playing Ole Miss for Christ's sake. And in the great words of Rick Ray, "If you're having problems of any kind, I know the perfect team to take out those frustrations on, those 17ers from Oxford."

[Scared_Hitless]

SC is one of those teams slightly better than their record, and they have a tough coach. They played hard and we played pretty lazy honestly. Still should have won, Howland needs to get the team to play harder and the freshman need to do more with their minutes. Season is early and I am not panicked yet. Beat OM on Sat. and forget this happened.

[StarkVegasSteve]

SC is one of those teams slightly better than their record, and they have a tough coach. They played hard and we played pretty lazy honestly. Still should have won, Howland needs to get the team to play harder and the freshman need to do more with their minutes. Season is early and I am not panicked yet. Beat OM on Sat. and forget this happened.

Perry and Woodard were extremely disappointing last night. Perry especially. Looked lost defensively especially when having to guard Silva

[Scared_Hitless]

Perry and Woodard were extremely disappointing last night. Perry especially. Looked lost defensively especially when having to guard Silva

Agreed but Silva is a very good player they need to improve. My main issue with Howland he is accumulating talent but they do not seem to be improving much. Time will tell.

[msstate7]

Perry and Woodard were extremely disappointing last night. Perry especially. Looked lost defensively especially when having to guard Silva

Not nearly as worried about Perry's defense as Holman's. Perry has an excuse

[Activated Alpha]

Just feels like the Kentucky football game all over again. Getting excited about our team? Well hold on, let me introduce you back to reality.....

[the59dawg]

Not nearly as worried about Perry's defense as Holman's. Perry has an excuse

Yea. Holman sees himself as our offensive champ chosen to shoot 3s which he does very well, but that shouldn't tell him he can rest on defense. Losing his man twice during OT hurt us badly, but realistically the 4 or 5 TOs in OT was the killer. Q and Peters must have been out of gas during OT cause they really struggled then while trying to carry the team. Where did the passing go during OT?

[Dawg2003]

Well, our NET ranking is now 32, down from 19. Ole Miss is 34, so we can hold steady by beating them. We need to beat Auburn it Kentucky. We'll have 2 chances at each. That loss could really affect our seeding and be the difference in a Round of 32 vs. a Sweet 16 team.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yea. Holman sees himself as our offensive champ chosen to shoot 3s which he does very well, but that shouldn't tell him he can rest on defense. Losing his man twice during OT hurt us badly, but realistically the 4 or 5 TOs in OT was the killer. Q and Peters must have been out of gas during OT cause they really struggled then while trying to carry the team. Where did the passing go during OT?

For us to be successful they have to be able to get a rest and last night we had no bench support. I think we had 2 bench points for the game

[MarketingBully]

South Carolina (7-7, 2-0 SEC) 87
Mississippi State (12-2, 0-1 SEC) 82
Final/OT

What an incredibly disappointing opener. For a number of reasons, this was a game Mississippi State didn't need to lose. However, the Dogs played right into the hands of a hard-nosed South Carolina team and came up short. I don't know how any of you feel but I feel let down because I have thought the team had turned the corner. As a fan who wants support and a packed Hump, it feels like these games happen too often over the last couple of years. Just when their is support building and a big time home game on the horizon, the team will lose a frustrating game and we go back to square one trying to convince the casual fan to stay with them. I encourage you that there are still reasons to believe in this team if the appropriate adjustments can be made. SEC road games are very tough and it is unfortunate we started with such a lowly rated team that will cause damage to the resume'.

South Carolina wants to get down and dirty and not allow you to get into any flow on offense because they don't have the horses to match up that way. Tonight, I felt we gave them exactly what they wanted. First, I'll start on defense because I think that's where the root of the problem was tonight. As I said in the preview, Chris Silva is what gets them going. After a few buckets. we adjusted to attempt to double the post any time he touched the ball. It was effective at first causing some errant passes and turnovers. The problems were the corresponding help moves. When Holman would double, the backside defender was a step slow rotating to cut off the pass to Kotsar, leading to him having a big game and severely hampering our rebounding, leading to far too many easy offensive rebounds. In my opinion, the backside help should cut off the post defender and make the pass go to the perimeter. If South Carolina made consistent outside shots, so be it, I highly doubt they would have. I also did not like our closeouts on shooters tonight. Too often approached the shooter without a hand up or a step slow in getting the hand up. Lastly, while these were negatives, when we committed to the defensive end in small spurts, the overall play of the team increased and led to the flow we were trying to establish on offense. If the team will commit to 40 minutes of defensive intensity, they will be okay. Tonight, it just wasn't there.

Offensively, like I said earlier, there was just no flow that we had been accustomed to seeing over the past few games. Most of that is attributed to what South Carolina does defensively. They are very physical and the refs allowed them to utilize that tonight. That's just how it is on the road in the SEC. With that being said, I did not care for some of our plans of attack. If the idea was to attack with penetration and make the extra pass for open shot or layup, that is what Lamar Peters is made for. I thought far too often we had Q in the position to drive. Teams have figured out that Q has a tough time finishing to his left side and is prone to turn it over on a straight-line drive. He does many things well, however, his finishing ability to his left side at the rim is not an area of strength. I thought a drive and kick from Lamar to the wings or underneath would have been very effective with the activeness of the Gamecock defense. Lastly, Aric Holman was 5-8 from 3 in the game and his screen and pop out move was very effective because the post defender did not the quickness to cover him on the perimeter. I did not understand why we went away from that when it came down the stretch and in OT. Also, 13-23 will not cut it at the free throw line. We went 1 for 2 way too much and that has to improve going forward. If we can get every one on the offense to play to their strengths and within the game, the pieces are still there and we saw them in flashes tonight. I thought Nick's mid-range game continues to be solid and Ado played well in the post.

I also thought Reggie Perry looked like a freshman tonight. It will happen from time to time and you could see him thinking more than he has and it led to him being out of position and out of control a couple of times. Overall, it is just one game but it does hurt the resume' quite badly. We will need to go on the road at some quality opponents and pull out some wins to counteract this. The team is very frustrating to watch at times but don't quit on them and let's pack the Hump Saturday and get back on track against Ole Miss.

Thanks and let me know what y'all thought about last night.

Great analysis. Other keys were: where was the extra pass last night and movement without the ball? Also Peters/Q had 9 of our 16 turnovers. And like you said, Holman was 5/8 from the 3 point line. Why couldn?t Peters have drived and dished to an open Holman on the wing instead of selfishly taking the last shot in regulation? 17 assists/16 turnovers 13-23 at the FT line. No focus on defense. And SC is a team you zone. You don?t man to man them ever. That?s the one thing I can?t stand most of all about Howland. He will never zone. Always man to man. This team is not a good man to man team for whatever reason. Last night I?d say we played maybe 10-15 minutes last night of a 45 minute game. That won?t beat anyone especially on the road.

[jwells]

Great analysis. Other keys were: where was the extra pass last night and movement without the ball? Also Peters/Q had 9 of our 16 turnovers. And like you said, Holman was 5/8 from the 3 point line. Why couldn?t Peters have drived and dished to an open Holman on the wing instead of selfishly taking the last shot in regulation? 17 assists/16 turnovers 13-23 at the FT line. No focus on defense. And SC is a team you zone. You don?t man to man them ever. That?s the one thing I can?t stand most of all about Howland. He will never zone. Always man to man. This team is not a good man to man team for whatever reason. Last night I?d say we played maybe 10-15 minutes last night of a 45 minute game. That won?t beat anyone especially on the road.

Left that out but agree on the zone. South Carolina was screaming to zone but Howland has said in his 1st year that winning teams don't zone. I don't agree with that at all and it's infuriating at times.

[msstate7]

We better be ready Saturday. OM all over auburn 18 mins into the game. Kermit Davis is a damn good coach

[chef dixon]

Who is our best player? We do not have one. We seem to get an inconsistent amount of production between Q, Nick, Peters, and Holman on a given night. I think it makes it tough in tight games to know who feels the need to step up.

[msstate7]

Om up 13 on auburn at half.

[Dawg2003]

Yep, the Kermits are making Auburn look like sh*t. Ole Miss looking like a well coached, disciplined team.

[Liverpooldawg]

We are too dependent on outside shooting and transition. Until we develop a consistent inside game and a good half court game that isn't dependent on the 3, we are going to have nights like last night, especially on the road.

[MarketingBully]

Om up 13 on auburn at half.

Surprising result indeed. OM won by 15. Tells you that had we hired Davis in 2012 instead of the Ray error, we are in much better shape and probably already have 3-4 NCAA appearances since then. He’s a winner and he would have also brought Pierre with him and kept Brooks. That 1-2 recruiting punch in assistant coaches would have dominated recruiting. But alas he ended up at OM.

[timotheus]

We are too dependent on outside shooting and transition. Until we develop a consistent inside game and a good half court game that isn't dependent on the 3, we are going to have nights like last night, especially on the road.

Excellent observation. way too much one on one dribbling etc 30 feet from the basket as 4 teammates stand still. Kermit will be all over that saturday if it doesn't change.

[BB30]

This team will be alright. We are pretty talented but not talented enough to just walk out there and win games on the road without some consistent play. FWIW I think we get back on the right track this Saturday. Too much live and die on this board lately. It's a marathon not a sprint. I fully expected us to drop a game or two that we probably shouldn't. I also think we win a game or two we probably shouldn't so it will all even out.

[MarketingBully]

Well, our NET ranking is now 32, down from 19. Ole Miss is 34, so we can hold steady by beating them. We need to beat Auburn it Kentucky. We'll have 2 chances at each. That loss could really affect our seeding and be the difference in a Round of 32 vs. a Sweet 16 team.

What this means is no room for error. Need to win a game we shouldn’t now and not drop any others we are favored in. I guess what pisses me off the most about this team is a long team with two shot blockers down low SHOULD NOT be a man to man team. We have two great shot blockers in the paint. That has 2-3 zone written all over it. No one should be able to get layups or easy baskets in the paint with two shot blockers. If Howland wants to play strictly man to man then he needs to recruit to that. Recruit players to fit your style of play! It’s that simple.

[MarketingBully]

This team will be alright. We are pretty talented but not talented enough to just walk out there and win games on the road without some consistent play. FWIW I think we get back on the right track this Saturday. Too much live and die on this board lately. It's a marathon not a sprint. I fully expected us to drop a game or two that we probably shouldn't. I also think we win a game or two we probably shouldn't so it will all even out.

No team is talented enough to play like we did Tuesday and expect to win. Look at Kentucky’s loss at Alabama and Auburn’s loss at Ole Miss. if you play down to your competition, it’s going to bite you in the ass every once in a while.

[jwells]

I think the thing that sticks out to me though was not so much that we lost on the road, it's that it was to such a lowly rated team. I know South Carolina has been playing better but their numbers are their numbers and a loss to a team in the 100s will destroy your metrics. The team had rebounded very well since the loss to Arizona State and the loss to SC wipes out a good portion of that as it relates to the resume'. The NCAA tournament selection is almost exclusively based on your metrics and the loss Tuesday night will take some wins to come back from. But it is just the 1st SEC game so now at least they have the time and opportunities to fix it. As of now, Ole Miss has a better NCAA case seed-wise in my mind so a win over them will start us back on track.

[jwells]

Also, planning to have the Saturday game previews up on Friday mornings since I may not be around my computer as much Friday night/Saturday morning and am going to do a Bracket Update on Monday mornings that summarizes and average a few of the Bracketologies out there and where State stands.

[MarketingBully]

I think the thing that sticks out to me though was not so much that we lost on the road, it's that it was to such a lowly rated team. I know South Carolina has been playing better but their numbers are their numbers and a loss to a team in the 100s will destroy your metrics. The team had rebounded very well since the loss to Arizona State and the loss to SC wipes out a good portion of that as it relates to the resume'. The NCAA tournament selection is almost exclusively based on your metrics and the loss Tuesday night will take some wins to come back from. But it is just the 1st SEC game so now at least they have the time and opportunities to fix it. As of now, Ole Miss has a better NCAA case seed-wise in my mind so a win over them will start us back on track.

Ole Miss having a better case seed wise then us at any point in this season is unacceptable with our talent and experience. We are at least a 2x more talented team who returned pretty much everyone. You could also argue that the team OM played on the road (Vandy) was a much tougher team then we opened with. There is absolutely no excuse for us to drop that game against South Carolina. And I will say this. If we finish the SEC season 9-9 or worse and go one and done in the NCAA tournament, I’m done with Howland. He’s had plenty of time to build us back up. Plenty of time.

[jwells]

Ole Miss having a better case seed wise then us at any point in this season is unacceptable with our talent and experience. We are at least a 2x more talented team who returned pretty much everyone. You could also argue that the team OM played on the road (Vandy) was a much tougher team then we opened with. There is absolutely no excuse for us to drop that game against South Carolina. And I will say this. If we finish the SEC season 9-9 or worse and go one and done in the NCAA tournament, I’m done with Howland. He’s had plenty of time to build us back up. Plenty of time.

I agree that this is the make or break year for Howland. No excuses to not have a very quality team and you are right about no excuses to lose to SC. That being said, I think the resumes are close enough that a win over OM Saturday would be enough to leapfrog us back over them. We also have a win over Cincinnati in a game they lost but we will need Cincy to win some games and as I type this they will are about to lose their 2nd straight league game to Tulsa. I would say I am concerned but a loss on Saturday would be a reason to really be worried.

[jwells]

I agree that this is the make or break year for Howland. No excuses to not have a very quality team and you are right about no excuses to lose to SC. That being said, I think the resumes are close enough that a win over OM Saturday would be enough to leapfrog us back over them. We also have a win over Cincinnati in a game they lost but we will need Cincy to win some games and as I type this they will are about to lose their 2nd straight league game to Tulsa. I would say I am concerned but a loss on Saturday would be a reason to really be worried.

Cincinnati fights back to win in OT at Tulsa. Tulsa has some wins against high major teams OK State and Kansas State so good win for the Bearcats