Clemson's blueprint for beating Bama

[Tbonewannabe]

It seems like Clemson used a very similar blueprint to what JoeMo wants to build at MSU.

Great defense that creates turmoil. Having a great Dline is imperative so you don't have to bring LBs to get some kind of pressure. We had the defense this year which we did compete at Tuscaloosa.

Explosive RB that can make things happen. Kylin is very similar to Eitene in that regard. Not only a power back but also that can have those explosive plays.

We are lacking WRs who can make plays and a QB that can make throws. Clemson beat Bama with explosive plays on offense. We don't have the WRs right now that can win the one on ones. That is how UM beat Bama twice and we haven't had that type of WR in a long time. The 4 star WRs we have gotten have not worked out to those type of big play receivers. Guidry and Mitchell have sometimes had those plays but not consistently.

If JoeMo's offense works how it is supposed to then it gives us the best chance to knock off elite teams. Mullen's offense was built to grind down opponents which is why other than 2017 Bama, we almost always were blown out against great teams including 2014 and 2015. 2014 Bama was not as close as the score showed at the end.

[dawgday166]

It seems like Clemson used a very similar blueprint to what JoeMo wants to build at MSU.

Great defense that creates turmoil. Having a great Dline is imperative so you don't have to bring LBs to get some kind of pressure. We had the defense this year which we did compete at Tuscaloosa.

Explosive RB that can make things happen. Kylin is very similar to Eitene in that regard. Not only a power back but also that can have those explosive plays.

We are lacking WRs who can make plays and a QB that can make throws. Clemson beat Bama with explosive plays on offense. We don't have the WRs right now that can win the one on ones. That is how UM beat Bama twice and we haven't had that type of WR in a long time. The 4 star WRs we have gotten have not worked out to those type of big play receivers. Guidry and Mitchell have sometimes had those plays but not consistently.

If JoeMo's offense works how it is supposed to then it gives us the best chance to knock off elite teams. Mullen's offense was built to grind down opponents which is why other than 2017 Bama, we almost always were blown out against great teams including 2014 and 2015. 2014 Bama was not as close as the score showed at the end.

We'll see on Kylin. Not sold yet.

[msstate7]

Clemson has faced Bama 3 times the last 3 years. They won the 2 where they had a truly elite qb. Wr talent has been elite all 3 times. Not sure in our wildest dreams that shrader becomes Watson or Lawrence. I really don't see a way we can stockpile elite WRs either

[Tbonewannabe]

We'll see on Kylin. Not sold yet.

Really, if he stays healthy, the only thing he isn't elite in is pass blocking which isn't great. He is a really good receiver and is the best overall RB we have had since Vick Ballard imo if you disregard pass blocking. He has to get better at blocking because that is a big negative. It will be the difference in being a 3 down back in the NFL or a rotation back.

[dawgday166]

Clemson has faced Bama 3 times the last 3 years. They won the 2 where they had a truly elite qb. Wr talent has been elite all 3 times. Not sure in our wildest dreams that shrader becomes Watson or Lawrence. I really don't see a way we can stockpile elite WRs either

You don't think we can get QBs of caliber of OM (when they beat Bama) and WRs of same caliber (maybe not as many but 3 or so)?

[Tbonewannabe]

Clemson has faced Bama 3 times the last 3 years. They won the 2 where they had a truly elite qb. Wr talent has been elite all 3 times. Not sure in our wildest dreams that shrader becomes Watson or Lawrence. I really don't see a way we can stockpile elite WRs either

Well the alternative is to hope Bama's 1st and possible 2nd string defense are out.

[msstate7]

You don't think we can get QBs of caliber of OM (when they beat Bama) and WRs of same caliber (maybe not as many but 3 or so)?

In 2014, om legit beat the worst Bama team probably the last 10 years. In 2015, that game was a total fluke

[dawgday166]

In 2014, om legit beat the worst Bama team probably the last 10 years. In 2015, that game was a total fluke

I think that Bama team probably better than last 2. D was much better, Oline was better, and they could run the ball better. I agree on 2015 game tho.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We know from this year that we can build a D that's as good as we saw last night. Might only be once every 5 years (if not 10) we can do it at that level, but it can be done here.

Offense is what hasn't been proved. In last nights NC game: All 6 starting WRs would start over all of ours. All starting TEs would start over ours. Both QBs would start over any QB in our history, though Dak was no slouch. All 4 OTs would start over ours. Kylin can hold his own but both the RBs last night would beat him out. Literally our interior 3 OL are the only guys we have on O that have a shot at starting for either team, and I doubt all 3 would.

Then we get to coaching, where the unfortunate reality is our staff can be poached at any time by blue bloods with more $. Clemson and Bama get the pick of the litter as far as assistants go and they keep them.

So Moorhead can build all he wants, he's not going to get the talent those guys have. This is the best year for MS recruiting in history, and OM is way down, yet we'd need literally 15 more 4* commits to get the talent Bama/Clemson gets, and that's just 1 class.

We can consistently go 4-0 in OOC, beat Arky, OM, and Kentucky, and go 1/3 vs A&M, LSU, and Auburn due to better coaching and them having down years. Any more than that is simply not in the cards unless our boosters can suddenly start competing with Bama, Auburn, LSU, and OM's

[msstate7]

We know from this year that we can build a D that's as good as we saw last night. Might only be once every 5 years (if not 10) we can do it at that level, but it can be done here.

Offense is what hasn't been proved. In last nights NC game: All 6 starting WRs would start over all of ours. All starting TEs would start over ours. Both QBs would start over any QB in our history, though Dak was no slouch. All 4 OTs would start over ours. Kylin can hold his own but both the RBs last night would beat him out. Literally our interior 3 OL are the only guys we have on O that have a shot at starting for either team, and I doubt all 3 would.

Then we get to coaching, where the unfortunate reality is our staff can be poached at any time by blue bloods with more $. Clemson and Bama get the pick of the litter as far as assistants go and they keep them.

So Moorhead can build all he wants, he's not going to get the talent those guys have. This is the best year for MS recruiting in history, and OM is way down, yet we'd need literally 15 more 4* commits to get the talent Bama/Clemson gets, and that's just 1 class.

We can consistently go 4-0 in OOC, beat Arky, OM, and Kentucky, and go 1/3 vs A&M, LSU, and Auburn due to better coaching and them having down years. Any more than that is simply not in the cards unless our boosters can suddenly start competing with Bama, Auburn, LSU, and OM's

Yep. Talking about beating Bama is crazy talk. We can't beat auburn or LSU with any consistency right now, and go ahead and throw aTm in that group from here out

[DownwardDawg]

Clemson has faced Bama 3 times the last 3 years. They won the 2 where they had a truly elite qb. Wr talent has been elite all 3 times. Not sure in our wildest dreams that shrader becomes Watson or Lawrence. I really don't see a way we can stockpile elite WRs either

With better receivers and a better QB, we beat Bama last year and this year would have been a nail biter, if officiating would have been fair. Again, we aren’t trying to beat them by 40 points. We just want a 1 point victory. Doesn’t take a Lawrence to do that.

[Scared_Hitless]

We know from this year that we can build a D that's as good as we saw last night. Might only be once every 5 years (if not 10) we can do it at that level, but it can be done here.

Offense is what hasn't been proved. In last nights NC game: All 6 starting WRs would start over all of ours. All starting TEs would start over ours. Both QBs would start over any QB in our history, though Dak was no slouch. All 4 OTs would start over ours. Kylin can hold his own but both the RBs last night would beat him out. Literally our interior 3 OL are the only guys we have on O that have a shot at starting for either team, and I doubt all 3 would.

Then we get to coaching, where the unfortunate reality is our staff can be poached at any time by blue bloods with more $. Clemson and Bama get the pick of the litter as far as assistants go and they keep them.

So Moorhead can build all he wants, he's not going to get the talent those guys have. This is the best year for MS recruiting in history, and OM is way down, yet we'd need literally 15 more 4* commits to get the talent Bama/Clemson gets, and that's just 1 class.

We can consistently go 4-0 in OOC, beat Arky, OM, and Kentucky, and go 1/3 vs A&M, LSU, and Auburn due to better coaching and them having down years. Any more than that is simply not in the cards unless our boosters can suddenly start competing with Bama, Auburn, LSU, and OM's

Unfortunately lot of reality in this post.

[msstate7]

With better receivers and a better QB, we beat Bama last year and this year would have been a nail biter, if officiating would have been fair. Again, we aren’t trying to beat them by 40 points. We just want a 1 point victory. Doesn’t take a Lawrence to do that.

Are we talking individual Bama win or beating Bama for a title like Clemson?

[Commercecomet24]

We definitely need to upgrade at the WR position and that got me to thinking. We haven't had great WRs in quite awhile but Jackie was able to get some pretty dang good ones even without having a great throwing QB. This was just off the top of my head: Willie Harris, Olanda Truitt, Eric Moulds(man I wish he was playing for us now), Chris Jones, Shaston Coleman, Kevin Prentiss, Kelvin Love, Justin Jenkins, and Jackie had some pretty dang good TE's, Jesse Anderson, Donald Lee to name a couple, Imagine if we had some of those guys on the roster right now.

[Doggie_Style]

Clemson has faced Bama 3 times the last 3 years. They won the 2 where they had a truly elite qb. Wr talent has been elite all 3 times. Not sure in our wildest dreams that shrader becomes Watson or Lawrence. I really don't see a way we can stockpile elite WRs either

.....and yet we will go into 2019 looking a lot like 2018 as far as QB and WR talent and Jo will continue his slow-Mo last second snap offense and we are likely to see the same result. Combine that with the regression on defense and it could be a very bad year.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

So if we swapped QB and 2 WR’s with Clemson January of last year... what would Clemson and MSU’s season had been like?

[Tbonewannabe]

.....and yet we will go into 2019 looking a lot like 2018 as far as QB and WR talent and Jo will continue his slow-Mo last second snap offense and we are likely to see the same result. Combine that with the regression on defense and it could be a very bad year.

You do realize our yardage per play was higher this year even with Fitz only completing around 50% of his passes. I don't know if Joe always slows it down but it did benefit our defense so maybe there was a reason.

[Bothrops]

Really, if he stays healthy, the only thing he isn't elite in is pass blocking which isn't great. He is a really good receiver and is the best overall RB we have had since Vick Ballard imo if you disregard pass blocking. He has to get better at blocking because that is a big negative. It will be the difference in being a 3 down back in the NFL or a rotation back.

Vick Ballard was one hell of a player.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

You do realize our yardage per play was higher this year even with Fitz only completing around 50% of his passes. I don't know if Joe always slows it down but it did benefit our defense so maybe there was a reason.

Last year with Mullen the gameplan was to literally hold the ball as long as possible and run the hell out of it to keep our D off the field. It worked really well. But the point is that Mullen intentionally wanted the clock to run down against Bama and we all praised that plan... flash forward one year and suddenly it's a sign of coaching incompetence

I'm not a big fan of the Jo-Mo O based on what I've seen, but when we snap the ball is the least of my worries. 1) There's almost no correlation between snapping the ball fast and having a good O. Pleanty of great Os snap with 2 seconds left. 2) It helps limit the other teams' possessions and gives the defense time to regroup. If we're going to run 3-6 plays and punt you can be damn sure I want it to run off 3 minutes of clock instead of 1.5 or 2. We'd all complain about not giving our D time to rest if we snapped it quick.

I can see the comments now if we snapped the ball quicker: "Our O is so bad- Fitz has no idea what's going on and the RBs aren't getting carries. Maybe if we took those extra 15 seconds to let the O settle in and communicate with each other they'd be on the same page and we'd get a good play call in. Moorhead needs to realize his O isn't installed fully and he needs to slow it down more than he wants too". As it is the narrative is that snapping the ball with 15 seconds to go would magically cause the OL to block better, the playcalling to involve the RBs more, Fitz to know what's going on, and the WRs to catch.

[Scared_Hitless]

The issue with Kylin is that he embraces contact. He takes on every single hit on every single run. Good way to stay banged up and injured. After a 25 yd run no need to headhunt the safety, I like the energy but gotta keep yourself healthy.

[GreenheadDawg]

Until we can keep instate talent, instate, it really doesn’t matter. We won’t beat Bama

[msstate7]

Until we can keep instate talent, instate, it really doesn’t matter. We won’t beat Bama

Fo real. We getting our clocks cleaned in state, and we working on a blueprint to beat Bama haha

[dawgs]

We know from this year that we can build a D that's as good as we saw last night. Might only be once every 5 years (if not 10) we can do it at that level, but it can be done here.

Offense is what hasn't been proved. In last nights NC game: All 6 starting WRs would start over all of ours. All starting TEs would start over ours. Both QBs would start over any QB in our history, though Dak was no slouch. All 4 OTs would start over ours. Kylin can hold his own but both the RBs last night would beat him out. Literally our interior 3 OL are the only guys we have on O that have a shot at starting for either team, and I doubt all 3 would.

Then we get to coaching, where the unfortunate reality is our staff can be poached at any time by blue bloods with more $. Clemson and Bama get the pick of the litter as far as assistants go and they keep them.

So Moorhead can build all he wants, he's not going to get the talent those guys have. This is the best year for MS recruiting in history, and OM is way down, yet we'd need literally 15 more 4* commits to get the talent Bama/Clemson gets, and that's just 1 class.

We can consistently go 4-0 in OOC, beat Arky, OM, and Kentucky, and go 1/3 vs A&M, LSU, and Auburn due to better coaching and them having down years. Any more than that is simply not in the cards unless our boosters can suddenly start competing with Bama, Auburn, LSU, and OM's

No idea why our fans throw OM booster money and influence in there with bama, LSU, and auburn. The sooner we treat them like the little brother they are desperately trying to hang with the bama's and LSU's and Auburn's the better. Our fans love to act like OM has the ncaa or sec ear when it comes to big time issues and that's simply not true. No one outside of our fans consider them anything more than a relatively minor nuisance, but we play right into their hands by elevating them as a real player in the CFB world.

[dawgs]

Last year with Mullen the gameplan was to literally hold the ball as long as possible and run the hell out of it to keep our D off the field. It worked really well. But the point is that Mullen intentionally wanted the clock to run down against Bama and we all praised that plan... flash forward one year and suddenly it's a sign of coaching incompetence

I'm not a big fan of the Jo-Mo O based on what I've seen, but when we snap the ball is the least of my worries. 1) There's almost no correlation between snapping the ball fast and having a good O. Pleanty of great Os snap with 2 seconds left. 2) It helps limit the other teams' possessions and gives the defense time to regroup. If we're going to run 3-6 plays and punt you can be damn sure I want it to run off 3 minutes of clock instead of 1.5 or 2. We'd all complain about not giving our D time to rest if we snapped it quick.

I can see the comments now if we snapped the ball quicker: "Our O is so bad- Fitz has no idea what's going on and the RBs aren't getting carries. Maybe if we took those extra 15 seconds to let the O settle in and communicate with each other they'd be on the same page and we'd get a good play call in. Moorhead needs to realize his O isn't installed fully and he needs to slow it down more than he wants too". As it is the narrative is that snapping the ball with 15 seconds to go would magically cause the OL to block better, the playcalling to involve the RBs more, Fitz to know what's going on, and the WRs to catch.

I thought Mullen's 2015 game plan against bama was the only really good game plan he ever had against bama. We came out letting dak sling it around and actually tried to make plays and put the pressure on bama. We didn't execute and the game ended up a blowout, but I was fine with it, because you never know when you get lucky bounces on some downfield pass plays like OM in 2015. Trying to eat clock and grind out the game just ensures you only lose like 24-7 in a game that was way closer on the scoreboard than on the field. I'd rather take my shots and lose 48-7 if we don't execute than not take out shots and pretty much guarantee we lose 24-7 type games.

[msstate7]

I thought Mullen's 2015 game plan against bama was the only really good game plan he ever had against bama. We came out letting dak sling it around and actually tried to make plays and put the pressure on bama. We didn't execute and the game ended up a blowout, but I was fine with it, because you never know when you get lucky bounces on some downfield pass plays like OM in 2015. Trying to eat clock and grind out the game just ensures you only lose like 24-7 in a game that was way closer on the scoreboard than on the field. I'd rather take my shots and lose 48-7 if we don't execute than not take out shots and pretty much guarantee we lose 24-7 type games.


2014 Bama vs state...
1st downs: 26-17 state
Rushing: 138-124 state
Passing: 290-211 state
Total yds: 428-335 state
Penalties: state 4-33, Bama 7-61
Turnovers: state 3, Bama 0

Nothing wrong with that game plan... just turned this ball over

[Commercecomet24]

2014 Bama vs state...
1st downs: 26-17 state
Rushing: 138-124 state
Passing: 290-211 state
Total yds: 428-335 state
Penalties: state 4-33, Bama 7-61
Turnovers: state 3, Bama 0

Nothing wrong with that game plan... just turned this ball over

Yes and I believe 2 of those turnovers were in the red zone. Also Dak overthrew a wide open Malcolm Johnson in the end zone just before the end of the first half and we had to settle for 3 instead of the td.

[smootness]

There is no blueprint for beating Bama that hasn't existed for 100 years. How did Clemson get to that level? They have recruited extremely well, they have developed, and they coach well. That's what it's always been about, that's how Bama got to their level, and that's how Clemson has gotten there. There are no secrets or shortcuts.

If 'get NFL talent everywhere, be disciplined, and play with intensity and energy' is a blueprint, then yes, we do need to follow that.

[dawgday166]

2014 Bama vs state...
1st downs: 26-17 state
Rushing: 138-124 state
Passing: 290-211 state
Total yds: 428-335 state
Penalties: state 4-33, Bama 7-61
Turnovers: state 3, Bama 0

Nothing wrong with that game plan... just turned this ball over

Last year's was pretty good too. And we could've done the same exact plan this year ... although there were plays to be made with the game plan Joe came up with this year, Fitz just didn't execute or read them well. We could've run on Bama easier IMO than we ran on AU, then play action them when they moved 8 or 9 in box. AU more stout in front 7.

[RougeDawg]

The most effective blueprint for beating Bama is a non SEC refereeing crew that doesn?t throw a phantom flag after every big play or touchdown. A crew that reviews fumbles/turnovers and does not turn a blind eye to the Bama holding. Or in turn does not call holding on either team.

[Homedawg]

The most effective blueprint for beating Bama is a non SEC refereeing crew that doesn?t throw a phantom flag after every big play or touchdown. A crew that reviews fumbles/turnovers and does not turn a blind eye to the Bama holding. Or in turn does not call holding on either team.

Please stop w this ridiculous premise that the reason bama wins is because of the refs. Yes that got a couple of calls against us. And had they not, they still would have won. They are better than us. And have been every year for a while. The crying about bama and refs is just childish and crazy. They have more talent than us, You know, bettter players. That wins!!! some of the post about them and the refs, like them going 8-4 just shows a complete utter lack of any sports competence.

[RougeDawg]

Please stop w this ridiculous premise that the reason bama wins is because of the refs. Yes that got a couple of calls against us. And had they not, they still would have won. They are better than us. And have been every year for a while. The crying about bama and refs is just childish and crazy. They have more talent than us, You know, bettter players. That wins!!! some of the post about them and the refs, like them going 8-4 just shows a complete utter lack of any sports competence.

Please stop with your naive ignorance. We definitely win in 2017 if the referees call it fair. It?s at worst a 7 point game this year called evenly. I?m not talking about just our game. It?s almost every sec game they play that is against decent competition. I knew the referees werent going to let us beat them when they blatantly ignored the fumble in the first drive of the game.

There is no earthly way Bama can go on streaks of no holding if the referees call holding the same across the board. No way. Go back and watch games. Multiple games this year had flags fly in after a big play that went against Bama. Please go back and watch some of their games. I?m not saying they are not extremely talented. I am simply pointing out the obvious officiating bias of the SEC officiating crews, most of which have ties to the university of Alabama, state of Alabama, or live in close proximity to the Birmingham?s/Tuscaloosa area.

Just look at last nights game. If that?s us playing with SEC referees, they call at least a half dozen PIs on us. We would have gotten multiple holding calls on big plays. It really is not difficult to see if you watch the same games I have. The Bama receivers were complaining all night last night, because they usually get those calls in conference. Maybe you should rewatch and go back and watch games in conference.

Eta. When did Webster’s change the definition of whining to - pointing out the obvious that even Stevie Wonder can see?

[TUSK]

Please stop with your naive ignorance. We definitely win in 2017 if the referees call it fair. It?s at worst a 7 point game this year called evenly. I?m not talking about just our game. It?s almost every sec game they play that is against decent competition. I knew the referees werent going to let us beat them when they blatantly ignored the fumble in the first drive of the game.

There is no earthly way Bama can go on streaks of no holding if the referees call holding the same across the board. No way. Go back and watch games. Multiple games this year had flags fly in after a big play that went against Bama. Please go back and watch some of their games. I?m not saying they are not extremely talented. I am simply pointing out the obvious officiating bias of the SEC officiating crews, most of which have ties to the university of Alabama, state of Alabama, or live in close proximity to the Birmingham?s/Tuscaloosa area.

Just look at last nights game. If that?s us playing with SEC referees, they call at least a half dozen PIs on us. We would have gotten multiple holding calls on big plays. It really is not difficult to see if you watch the same games I have. The Bama receivers were complaining all night last night, because they usually get those calls in conference. Maybe you should rewatch and go back and watch games in conference.

Eta. When did Webster’s change the definition of whining to - pointing out the obvious that even Stevie Wonder can see?

How do you think the officials are compensated for making calls that favor Alabama?

Cash/cash equivalents, or do you think they are extorted/blackmailed to do it?

[Homedawg]

So it's definitely a 7 point game. Wow. Quite the mind reader. So they would have only scored 7 you know that? Either way we wouldn't have won! And I know that because you can't win zero to negative one. You have to score and we would have had to have played 6 weeks to score.
As for last year, we lost by 7 and had one big time call go against us. So how does that mean we would have for sure won??? Again bama wins cause they have better players. Hell they are flat every hear in our game and we still can't win. Oh but only if there were fair refs. Every game has bs calls. Matter of fact after every game someone says these refs suck. Bet it's said tonight about the basketball game. Sometimes it matters, but as a rule, the better team wins. And yeah stop whining.

[Homedawg]

How do you think the officials are compensated for making calls that favor Alabama?

Cash/cash equivalents, or do you think they are extorted/blackmailed to do it?


Hell if they are being bought then they damn sure haven't made much money in the history of our series.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Please stop with your naive ignorance. We definitely win in 2017 if the referees call it fair. It?s at worst a 7 point game this year called evenly. I?m not talking about just our game. It?s almost every sec game they play that is against decent competition. I knew the referees werent going to let us beat them when they blatantly ignored the fumble in the first drive of the game.

There is no earthly way Bama can go on streaks of no holding if the referees call holding the same across the board. No way. Go back and watch games. Multiple games this year had flags fly in after a big play that went against Bama. Please go back and watch some of their games. I?m not saying they are not extremely talented. I am simply pointing out the obvious officiating bias of the SEC officiating crews, most of which have ties to the university of Alabama, state of Alabama, or live in close proximity to the Birmingham?s/Tuscaloosa area.

Just look at last nights game. If that?s us playing with SEC referees, they call at least a half dozen PIs on us. We would have gotten multiple holding calls on big plays. It really is not difficult to see if you watch the same games I have. The Bama receivers were complaining all night last night, because they usually get those calls in conference. Maybe you should rewatch and go back and watch games in conference.

Eta. When did Webster’s change the definition of whining to - pointing out the obvious that even Stevie Wonder can see?

Bingo.
Also, Kylin hasn't shown me anything yet. He has had some moves and some big runs, but given the amount of carries he has had I would have liked to see something that said wow to me. Haven't seen it yet, but I have high hopes he turns it on.

We have work to do. We need two difference makers at WR. We need a qb that can manage a RPO offense where the qb run is the strong 3rd option, not first like the past three years. We need RBs that can take on blocks. Wr that know how to get seperation. And playcalling that isnt so predictable the defense can always present a look to force you into a simple to stop qb draw. Qb spy is easy for Bama.

[bulldawg28]

How do you think the officials are compensated for making calls that favor Alabama?

Cash/cash equivalents, or do you think they are extorted/blackmailed to do it?

They don't have to be compensated. I know an SEC ref there are a good number of them that live in Alabama and are legit Bama fans. They're going to always add the human biased element in any competitive game.

[dawgday166]

How do you think the officials are compensated for making calls that favor Alabama?

Cash/cash equivalents, or do you think they are extorted/blackmailed to do it?

He has awakened from his slumber **** When depressed ... people tend to sleep all day *** Just kidding with you dude ... hence the sarcasterics.

Possible answers to your question:

It could be as simple as Saban has had one or 2 fired at some point. He certainly has raised much more than his fair share of hell with officials over the years. And I'm sure it would not take much more than a phone call from Saban to make a ref non-existent in the SEC. Very feasible.

In addition, Bama does have a tendency to have their games officiated by refs with Bama ties in one form or another. Several times a year to be exact and one of them has been in a crew which has officiated something like 5 of the last 6 games between our 2 teams (including the last 2). That same crew has officiated several AU/UA games too. That is an existing conflict of interest. The explanation has been given as (by the league office) ... "he was grandfathered in" back when the current system for SEC Officiating was implemented.

Or ... it could be something much more insidious, complex, intricate, and woven thru with a web full of lies, deceit, fraud, and cash/threats. Never can tell ... it be a extremely complex world out there. When huge sums of $$ are at stake people will do a host of unethical/immoral/illegal things to get a piece of the extremely large pie. Some even make bootleg liquor and grow meth ****

ETA: And while it has historically been taboo for official sports representatives, players, etc to keep a large distance between their teams/leagues/players and gambling interests, those boundaries don't seem to exist like they used to and gambling has become legal and huge in all sports now.

[TUSK]

He has awakened from his slumber **** When depressed ... people tend to sleep all day *** Just kidding with you dude ... hence the sarcasterics.

Possible answers to your question:

It could be as simple as Saban has had one or 2 fired at some point. He certainly has raised much more than his fair share of hell with officials over the years. And I'm sure it would not take much more than a phone call from Saban to make a ref non-existent in the SEC. Very feasible.

In addition, Bama does have a tendency to have their games officiated by refs with Bama ties in one form or another. Several times a year to be exact and one of them has been in a crew which has officiated something like 5 of the last 6 games between our 2 teams (including the last 2). That same crew has officiated several AU/UA games too. That is an existing conflict of interest. The explanation has been given as (by the league office) ... "he was grandfathered in" back when the current system for SEC Officiating was implemented.

Or ... it could be something much more insidious, complex, intricate, and woven thru with a web full of lies, deceit, fraud, and cash/threats. Never can tell ... it be a extremely complex world out there. When huge sums of $$ are at stake people will do a host of unethical/immoral/illegal things to get a piece of the extremely large pie. Some even make bootleg liquor and grow meth ****

ETA: And while it has historically been taboo for official sports representatives, players, etc to keep a large distance between their teams/leagues/players and gambling interests, those boundaries don't seem to exist like they used to and gambling has become legal and huge in all sports now.

Good post.

Just curious, but which refs are you referring in bold text above? I'm intrigued.

[dawgday166]

Good post.

Just curious, but which refs are you referring in bold text above? I'm intrigued.

I can't remember his name. Steve Robertson tried to go after this after our game with Bama this year. Steve was pissed and when he's pissed he gets SEC coaches fired sometimes (hello Freezus) **

Anyway, he found out all the information and had it in the Boneyard and in his nightly chat sessions. The guy's Dad played football for Bear in the 60s (played QB if I recall correctly but don't think he ever started since I had never heard of him I don't think). Steve is the one who got the "grandfathered in" explanation from the league office. I believe Steve had to file a Freedom of Information form or some such thing (don't know much about all that myself).

[TUSK]

I can't remember his name. Steve Robertson tried to go after this after our game with Bama this year. Steve was pissed and when he's pissed he gets SEC coaches fired sometimes (hello Freezus) **

Anyway, he found out all the information and had it in the Boneyard and in his nightly chat sessions. The guy's Dad played football for Bear in the 60s (played QB if I recall correctly but don't think he ever started since I had never heard of him I don't think). Steve is the one who got the "grandfathered in" explanation from the league office. I believe Steve had to file a Freedom of Information form or some such thing (don't know much about all that myself).

Rob Skelton... I thought you meant multiple refs over multiple games...

[dawgday166]

Rob Skelton... I thought you meant multiple refs over multiple games...

It was Rob now that you mention it. I kept wanting to say Rod or Red Skelton but I was thinking he's the head ref, not the Bammer guy. I don't know ... he may be both. I don't keep up much with the officiating crew members. I never payed much attention to refs (either playing or watching) until last 5 or so years and still don't pay that much. Just know officiating everywhere is horrible seems like these days.

And that crew has reffed our games (either 4 or 5 of 6) if I recall it correctly. But I also believe the criteria for "making sure" there is no affiliation is not real thorough. Steve seemed to be really after it and was going to get to the bottom of criteria for ref selection, etc. and really dig in when all of a sudden he stopped and shut up about it. Might be a whole host of reasons for that, etc or could be a mis-perception on my part but I did think it was somewhat odd the way it all happened. Maybe not ... don't know.

[Todd4State]

For us it all goes back to recruiting. If we can get 4 star receivers, QB's, and OL we are going to have a chance. That's sort of how our defense was built. We added in some 4 star JUCO guys like Sweat and Abrams to go along with the Simmons and Leo Lewis's but you get the idea. What happened this year is why I railed on Hevesy and Gonzalez for years because eventually it does come back to haunt you or you have to find JUCO or grad transfers that can fill in the gaps. Part of the problem is for years we have branded our football program to recruits as blue collar, hard working, run the ball, etc. type of football going back to Sherrill's days and continuing with Croom and Dan. That kind of "branding" typically doesn't appeal to WR's like it would running backs. Joe is obviously trying to change that.

I think the OP was a good big picture view of our situation and what we need to do to move forward beyond where we are to get to where we can potentially be a 10 win team year in and year out. Part of the problem to me is it seems like we have a lot of fans that are adamant that we should run the ball no matter what "because that's what Mississippi State football is" and while I think that works for getting to 8 wins a year it's going to be really hard for us to beat elite teams in today's game with that style of play. For us to take the next step we need to have balance and be able to throw and run the ball. Our offense was able to do that in 2014 and we all see what the results were. That season just so happened to include probably Dan's two best wins- over LSU on the road and Auburn in Starkville along with some other exciting wins and moments and I don't think that was a coincidence. And our defense that year was not that good statistically and we still won 10 games. Now that said, if we can get to where we have a team that can run, pass, play defense and is solid on special teams the sky is the limit for us. But as long as I have been a fan we've never had a team that was able to put together all four of those phases together in one year.

As far as us beating Alabama- to me it sort of reminds me of Madison Central and South Panola in the late 2000's and early 2010's. MC was good but never could get over the South Panola hump for years. At that time under Bobby Hall MC had a very run heavy offense which while it worked against most teams it actually played into South Panola's strength and what they wanted MC to do. The result was sometimes close and sometimes not pretty. South Panola also like Alabama had a feeling of invincibility because they had a state record winning streak that was ridiculous. They didn't believe that they were going to lose and Ricky Woods was the Mississippi High School version of Nick Saban. One year South Panola played Hoover HS and got their tails handed to them. I think South Panola lost their invincibility mentality that day. That may be what Clemson did to Alabama yesterday. Time will tell. But losing that helps. And eventually MC was able to beat South Panola in Batesville in the playoffs and now in the recent years MC has done pretty well against them. MC also may have been able to beat them sooner by adapting to a more Hoover-esque balanced style of offense as well. It will be interesting to me to see if similar things happen with MSU and Alabama in that series.


So, Joe is going to get a couple of years from me to show me that he can do it and recruit. If he can't do that then I'll turn on him like I did Dan, Hevesy, and Gonzalez after six years when it was obvious to me that they were checked out and didn't want to be here.

[dawgday166]

Sweat & Abrams were 3*. We had 3 DBs that were 3* with one 4*. Had 2 LBs that were 4* (Leo & Gay). One 5* DL and one 4*. So our starting D consisted of one 5*, four 4*, and six 3*.

ETA: Had 2 significant 4* backup DEs with Kobe & Rivers.

[Todd4State]

It was Rob now that you mention it. I kept wanting to say Rod or Red Skelton but I was thinking he's the head ref, not the Bammer guy. I don't know ... he may be both. I don't keep up much with the officiating crew members. I never payed much attention to refs (either playing or watching) until last 5 or so years and still don't pay that much. Just know officiating everywhere is horrible seems like these days.

And that crew has reffed our games (either 4 or 5 of 6) if I recall it correctly. But I also believe the criteria for "making sure" there is no affiliation is not real thorough. Steve seemed to be really after it and was going to get to the bottom of criteria for ref selection, etc. and really dig in when all of a sudden he stopped and shut up about it. Might be a whole host of reasons for that, etc or could be a mis-perception on my part but I did think it was somewhat odd the way it all happened. Maybe not ... don't know.

The SEC officials were questionable throughout a lot of games and I think it is a huge issue for the league. The Egg Bowl in 2017 was even more poorly officiated than our game against Alabama in my opinion and the way that game was called put players on both sides at risk of injury and also contributed to a small degree to what happened this year in the Egg Bowl. And honestly it's not just us that were getting questionable calls against Alabama. It has been going on at least during the Bear Bryant days but with today's college game being more accessible it's a lot more curious league wide. I do hope the SEC addresses it in the offseason- but I'm not getting my hopes up for that.

Also- I think the SEC officials are borderline vindictive. Remember Dan in that officials face against Texas A&M in 2017 trying to get a time out and the official just didn't get grant it because I'm assuming he is either oblivious, dead, or just being an asshole to be an asshole? Or LSU/Texas A&M this year where that official stared at Greedy Williams and basically dared him to say something after a questionable PI and then flagged him? The LSU/A&M game this year was a debacle in and of itself.

[Todd4State]

Sweat & Abrams were 3*. We had 3 DBs that were 3* with one 4*. Had 2 LBs that were 4* (Leo & Gay). One 5* DL and one 4*.

ETA: Had 2 significant 4* backup DEs with Kobe & Rivers.

That's true but they were four star caliber players and JUCO recruiting rankings are a lot more off than high school rankings. Abrams was at Georgia and had offers from Alabama, LSU, and Oklahoma out of JUCO and Montez Sweat had offers out of high school from Florida and played at Michigan State. No matter how you count it if you compare the number of four stars on the offensive side of the ball and compare it to the defensive side of the ball things start to become very apparent why this year went the way it did. And 2017 as well.

[dawgday166]

That's true but they were four star caliber players and JUCO recruiting rankings are a lot more off than high school rankings. Abrams was at Georgia and had offers from Alabama, LSU, and Oklahoma out of JUCO and Montez Sweat had offers out of high school from Florida and played at Michigan State. No matter how you count it if you compare the number of four stars on the offensive side of the ball and compare it to the defensive side of the ball things start to become very apparent why this year went the way it did. And 2017 as well.

I think both were 3* in HS too. I know Abrams was ... think Sweat was too but he may have been 4*.

[lastmajordog]

In 2014, om legit beat the worst Bama team probably the last 10 years. In 2015, that game was a total fluke

Instead of fluke I would say Bears did things that bothered Bama and caused fluke things to happen. Good off line, two and three step passes, great wideouts that could whip Bama?s secondary. The quick passes and jump ball, quick slants help negotiate Bama?s def line rush. Mostly they scored points on Bama and were NOT intimidated which made Bama look like keystone cops. In addition I think Clemson may have looked at the DOGS this year and how they held Bama to 10 points in last 3 quarters and how they beat up their qb?s .

[dawgs]

Instead of fluke I would say Bears did things that bothered Bama and caused fluke things to happen. Good off line, two and three step passes, great wideouts that could whip Bama?s secondary. The quick passes and jump ball, quick slants help negotiate Bama?s def line rush. Mostly they scored points on Bama and were NOT intimidated which made Bama look like keystone cops. In addition I think Clemson may have looked at the DOGS this year and how they held Bama to 10 points in last 3 quarters and how they beat up their qb?s .

Well I mean, chad kelly was 2 steps past the LOS when he threw a TD, they had a ball bounce off the defenders helmet, into the air and right into the hands of the receiver in stride for a long TD, and both years bama had multiple fumbles in their own end of the field. I know you have to take the downfield shots to get lucky on them, but that's luck. And the data says bama had a freakishly disproportionate number of fumbles and fumbles lost against OM those 2 years too. Yeah, OM was aggressive (which not enough teams are against bama), but simply chunking the ball into double coverage and acting like they created their own luck when the ball bounces off the defenders helmet into the hands of a streaking receiver isn't creating your own luck through skill and game planning.

[dawgs]

To me, this outcome stripped away the mystique of bama. They won lots of games cause teams were beat before they stepped on the field. Don't think they'll get that benefit next year. They can get it back if they dominate 2019, but I think programs are gonna be ready to take their shots next year.