What does Moorhead have to do outside of beating Bama to win you back?

[Tbonewannabe]

Looking at the prediction thread with some people thinking 3 - 5 wins is the ceiling next year, what does Moorhead and/or the team need to do to get you to think we are going in the right direction?

Right now we are possibly looking at a top 20-25 recruiting class. Of course that isn't great when everyone else is top 25 but it might be MSU's best class in a long time. We have signed one of the best Oline classes and possibly the best overall Dline class maybe ever at MSU as long as we hold onto the Feb signees.

So our recruiting has improved compared to previous coaching staffs.

Looking at our record next year, anything less than 6 is disappointing. I think we should expect at least 4 OOC wins along with at least 2 of UK, Ark, UT, or UM. Of those, I think UT is the biggest toss up.

If Moorhead somehow got us to 8 wins then that is a big positive. I don't care what Bowl game we go to next year but we have to keep the bowl streak alive. I would prefer anything in the bowl grouping as long as it's better than Birmingham or Independence.

Now what I specifically want to see is some form of competent QB play. Most of the time, Fitz looked like he barely knew the playbook and was winging it. When he looked like he was actually running the offense, A&M, La Tech, Ark, and UM, we kicked ass. Other times, it looked like he had never practiced in the offense, UK, UF, LSU, and Bama.

Does Moorhead get the RBs more involved or does his QB play look like Fitz always calling his own number again? We need to see the QB position develop. I don't care which QB it is but there is a lot of talent between Key, Mayden, and Schrader. One of them needs to take over the offense.

I also want to see our defense come back with the same intensity they had this year. You don't lose Simmons, Sweat, Abrams, Peters, and McLaurin and not take a step back but that same mentality of not giving up one blade of grass needs to be there. There is enough talent coming back that this could still be a top 25 level defense.

I want to see more discipline. Penalties cost us the UK game and probably the Outback bowl. I want to see that cleaned up going forward.

I also want to see improvement in the Oline and WRs.

[Mobile Bay]

Lets start with making us not look stupid out there. Ball spinning and throat slashing only come from undisciplined teams.

[GoToHellOleMiss]

Easy....score points....lots of them.

[Drewbowski]

Fitz's lack of knowing the playbook came when we faced a defense that could apply pressure. I hope we win 3 next year to expedite the process but we'll probably win 6 and Cohen will give that crooked eyebrow an extension.

[Tbonewannabe]

Lets start with making us not look stupid out there. Ball spinning and throat slashing only come from undisciplined teams.

This drove me crazy. That is always a flag at any level for the last 10-15 years. Dumb even thinking about making that motion. He might as well went up to the ref and threw the double bird. We did seem to get better after the UK game but took a big step back.

[Scared_Hitless]

All I want next year is to look like a disciplined functioning team. We had moments this year where JoMo just looked lost fix that. Get rid of the damn penalties.

We can argue officiating all day, but if happened multiple times and was consistent that is on coaching. Next is offensive progression not regression. Thats all I need. Can't go backwards

[Drewbowski]

We've been an incredibly undisciplined team all year and it has been sickening. But hey! Let's play make believe basketball with the players on the sideline!

[Tbonewannabe]

Fitz's lack of knowing the playbook came when we faced a defense that could apply pressure. I hope we win 3 next year to expedite the process but we'll probably win 6 and Cohen will give that crooked eyebrow an extension.

So is that on Fitz for not putting in the work or Moorhead for not playing to Fitz's strengths or Moorhead for not benching one of the winningest QBs in MSU history?

If Moorhead benched Fitz then he probably needed to win 10 or more games or the pitchforks would have been out. He basically had to play Fitz but I think he overestimated Fitz's ability for most of the year. As the playcaller, he needed to take a lot of those decisions out of his hands because Fitz almost always called his own number. That is the biggest issue that I saw this year.

[Liverpooldawg]

He hasn't lost me yet so my answer to your question is n/a.

[Jack Lambert]

He hasn't lost me yet so my answer to your question is n/a.

agree!

[RocketDawg]

He hasn't lost me yet so my answer to your question is n/a.

He hasn't lost me yet either, but he did look a little lost during the game. It had to be frustrating to see so many bad decisions and dropped balls. I think Joe will be fine once he gets the players he wants and needs.

[Activated Alpha]

This drove me crazy. That is always a flag at any level for the last 10-15 years. Dumb even thinking about making that motion. He might as well went up to the ref and threw the double bird. We did seem to get better after the UK game but took a big step back.

That dumb **** should have been benched after committing that selfish gesture. He didn't even get a solo tackle on that? It was purely selfish and stupid and caused a chain reaction to allow them to get points. Throat slash has been a penalty for quiet sometime now and everyone who plays or follows football knows that.

[Todd4State]

So is that on Fitz for not putting in the work or Moorhead for not playing to Fitz's strengths or Moorhead for not benching one of the winningest QBs in MSU history?

If Moorhead benched Fitz then he probably needed to win 10 or more games or the pitchforks would have been out. He basically had to play Fitz but I think he overestimated Fitz's ability for most of the year. As the playcaller, he needed to take a lot of those decisions out of his hands because Fitz almost always called his own number. That is the biggest issue that I saw this year.

He hasn't "lost me" but I agree that he needs to place an emphasis on cutting out the personal foul penalties. I couldn't stand that with Jackie and I still can't today. That penalty was the first time Iowa had any momentum the whole game. And may have made the officials call things tighter on us.

Basically I just want to see improvement in general in the passing game. We improve there then the running game will open up even more. I want to see the WR's continue to improve, Kylin improve his pass blocking, and our OT's become better. Defense will regress some because they were so good this last year. I just want to see us be top 20 there. I want to see special teams continue to improve as well. And then I want to see us finish out recruiting with a top 20 class. I also want to see us beat USM and Ole Miss for the first time since 1976 and win a bowl game.

I agree that he was stuck with Fitzgerald. It was really a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If it were me I would have threatened to bench Nick after K-State. I've noticed that he doesn't play as well when things are "all is well" but as soon as Joe threatened to bench him after LSU he magically started to play a lot better. I did personally overestimate how much Fitz would improve from his junior year to his senior year. It is what it is and now it's over and we can move on now.

[Dawgology]

Reduce dumbass penalties and SCORE POINTS!!!! You don't have to go out there and beat Bama but he has to get a functioning offense. If he wins 7 or 8 games next season I think most folks will be ok (especially if he lands on 8 again). But if he puts a team out there that can't score against a defense with a pulse then he will definitely be on the hot seat.

[Todd4State]

Reduce dumbass penalties and SCORE POINTS!!!! You don't have to go out there and beat Bama but he has to get a functioning offense. If he wins 7 or 8 games next season I think most folks will be ok (especially if he lands on 8 again). But if he puts a team out there that can't score against a defense with a pulse then he will definitely be on the hot seat.

I think our fans having lower expectations will probably help him. The thing is we just had a typical Dan Mullen season except with an Egg Bowl win and bowl loss- and Dan gets glorified by a lot of our fans.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think our fans having lower expectations will probably help him. The thing is we just had a typical Dan Mullen season except with an Egg Bowl win and bowl loss- and Dan gets glorified by a lot of our fans.

Mullen won 8 games in 2015 with the entire offense pretty much back except RB. He also had Manny Diaz as DC along with Chris Jones at DLine. That was a pretty talented group that won the same amount of games without the bowl win.

[Todd4State]

Mullen won 8 games in 2015 with the entire offense pretty much back except RB. He also had Manny Diaz as DC along with Chris Jones at DLine. That was a pretty talented group that won the same amount of games without the bowl win.

We won the Belk Bowl that year. Anyway- that year was to me as bad as this year if not worse since we had Dak at QB and Dan was in year seven.

[msu15]

Fitz's lack of knowing the playbook came when we faced a defense that could apply pressure. I hope we win 3 next year to expedite the process but we'll probably win 6 and Cohen will give that crooked eyebrow an extension.

What a ****ing shitty mindset.

[Mutt the Hoople]

That throat-slashing, ball-spinning crap reminded me of Jackie's teams of his last 6-7 seasons he was here. What I've realized is that, to get top talent to come to your school, you have to hope and pray the players can learn to play disciplined, smart football. Getting guys who think style is more important than substance is the price you pay for getting those better players.

We didn't see this stuff under Croom or Mullen. You also didn't see too many big-time players getting recruited to come here (yeah, we have some great players in the NFL from those days, but they were players that State developed).

[TALL DAWG]

What a ****ing shitty mindset.

Correct answer!
Some folks on here are being absolutely silly.
One would think they are an advertiser of this page and trying to generate hits...oh wait...

[Thick]

For starters, mold your offense around your personnel. Simplify your offense so that the 2 4 star QBs on the roster can run the damn thing. Run the football with your really talented, physical RBs. Hire a new OL coach, and give Shoop whatever he wants, and please get creative in short yardage/goal line situations instead of asking your QB to run rpo from the gun at the 1 foot line!!

[NCDawg]

For starters, mold your offense around your personnel. Simplify your offense so that the 2 4 star QBs on the roster can run the damn thing. Run the football with your really talented, physical RBs. Hire a new OL coach, and give Shoop whatever he wants, and please get creative in short yardage/goal line situations instead of asking your QB to run rpo from the gun at the 1 foot line!!

Pretty good synopsis. I would also add- install discipline on the team. No more foolish penalties, such as throat slash, etc., or your butt will be sitting on the bench for the rest of the game.

[dawgman15]

I have lost complete faith in Joe, unless the offense a complete 180, he's not the man for this job. His only good accomplishment was being smart enough to hire shoop as the DC.

[Dawgology]

For starters, mold your offense around your personnel. Simplify your offense so that the 2 4 star QBs on the roster can run the damn thing. Run the football with your really talented, physical RBs. Hire a new OL coach, and give Shoop whatever he wants, and please get creative in short yardage/goal line situations instead of asking your QB to run rpo from the gun at the 1 foot line!!

This is it in a nutshell. An offensive guru should be able to figure this out.

[Hot Rock]

Get control of everything... No throat slashing.. way fewer penalties especially on stuff like substitution. Jumping offside by the D-Line can happen to you at times if you are an aggressive defense, but that at least is an aggressive type penalty. Not getting the play in early enough to get the play off causing a delay of game needs to be fixed. That is two different kind of penalties to me.

He mustt have the players ready to go in the game if an unexpected event happens. If you get a turnover, the opposing defense may be in shell shock or at least tired. You can take advantage of that.

As far as the offense, I am looking for someone besides the QB actually making plays. WR's, RB's, TE's all get in on the action. That's when I think we have an offense that can compete with the big boys. Wins vs losses will come with a well coached team, then add in some decent recruiting. State can win getting top 20 type recruits and that will build the basis for that championship run someday. Who knows, we could catch lightening in a bottle with a transcendent QB at some point.

This team is not void of talent next year and more coming in. This was his first year and he has not lost me but I do hope for improvement next year.

[Pollodawg]

We?re not gonna go 3-9 next season, people. Dear Lord. Overract much? We will probably 6-6, 7-5 again.

[robert]

For starters, mold your offense around your personnel. Simplify your offense so that the 2 4 star QBs on the roster can run the damn thing. Run the football with your really talented, physical RBs. Hire a new OL coach, and give Shoop whatever he wants, and please get creative in short yardage/goal line situations instead of asking your QB to run rpo from the gun at the 1 foot line!!

I agree completely, but will JoMo see the light?

I would like to see our team wnl all the games they are favored and also upset somebody. Take us to a bowl with 8 regular season wins, one of them being a complete ass whipping of ole miss.

[NCDawg]

For starters, mold your offense around your personnel. Simplify your offense so that the 2 4 star QBs on the roster can run the damn thing. Run the football with your really talented, physical RBs. Hire a new OL coach, and give Shoop whatever he wants, and please get creative in short yardage/goal line situations instead of asking your QB to run rpo from the gun at the 1 foot line!!

Another thing, and probably one of the most important, get the damn play in on time and quit making the QB stall and look over at you when the clock is running down. It seems to me this delay is throwing things off kilter and causing a lots of problems for our offense to get into the rhythm of the game.

[Cooterpoot]

Why does this board assume most State fans don't like Joe? It's not true. Most State fans are giving him 3 or 4 years unless things come apart. If he's winning, we aren't firing him. Dan Mullen had a 5 win regular season two years ago here. This message board arrogance that we're suddenly an 8-10 win team every year is just from the few on the message boards. We won 8 games with a new coach and new system. We're in good shape. Just need the players and let Joe make a few adjustments based on experience and we should be fine.

[Scared_Hitless]

Why does this board assume most State fans don't like Joe? It's not true. Most State fans are giving him 3 or 4 years unless things come apart. If he's winning, we aren't firing him. Dan Mullen had a 5 win regular season two years ago here. This message board arrogance that we're suddenly an 8-10 win team every year is just from the few on the message boards. We won 8 games with a new coach and new system. We're in good shape. Just need the players and let Joe make a few adjustments based on experience and we should be fine.

You comment has way to much logic. THis was our season our shot we were better than every team ever this season and we blew it. ****** Honestly Joe has some stuff to learn, but hell having staff continuity and the recruiting he has done in 1 season is a step in the right direction for our program. Mind Blowing people act like Mullen never had a shit season.

[bluelightstar]

Why does this board assume most State fans don't like Joe? It's not true. Most State fans are giving him 3 or 4 years unless things come apart. If he's winning, we aren't firing him. Dan Mullen had a 5 win regular season two years ago here. This message board arrogance that we're suddenly an 8-10 win team every year is just from the few on the message boards. We won 8 games with a new coach and new system. We're in good shape. Just need the players and let Joe make a few adjustments based on experience and we should be fine.

I think message boards are more in line than they used to be because more people are now on social media and the internet. The social media crowds largely mirror what I've seen on boards. Now there's a big caveat that many people aren't on social media, but boards aren't as isolated a snapshot as they once were.

[Cooterpoot]

If Moorhead lost fans after an 8 win season and a win over our rival, then our fans are unrealistic. And maybe some of that comes from never seeing a new coach following a successful coach. Guess what, Dan Mullen didn't average 8 wins a year. He won 10 only once. 4 of his 9 years were 7 wins or less.
I'm not saying I liked everything Jo did, and he's got some things he'll need to change/improve but a first year guy winning 8 games is solid.

[Tbonewannabe]

You comment has way to much logic. THis was our season our shot we were better than every team ever this season and we blew it. ****** Honestly Joe has some stuff to learn, but hell having staff continuity and the recruiting he has done in 1 season is a step in the right direction for our program. Mind Blowing people act like Mullen never had a shit season.

They also act like Mullen always kicked ass on the road against top 20 teams. News flash, Mullen won at LSU in 2014 and I can't remember another instance in 9 years. Joe pretty much had a season that Dan usually had. All these people thought we would kick LSU and UK in the mouth on the road because we did it at home in 2017. Home doesn't equal on the road anywhere. That is why no matter the opponent, the home team gets an extra 3 points by Vegas just for playing at home.

[BrunswickDawg]

They also act like Mullen always kicked ass on the road against top 20 teams. News flash, Mullen won at LSU in 2014 and I can't remember another instance in 9 years. Joe pretty much had a season that Dan usually had. All these people thought we would kick LSU and UK in the mouth on the road because we did it at home in 2017. Home doesn't equal on the road anywhere. That is why no matter the opponent, the home team gets an extra 3 points by Vegas just for playing at home.

A&M on the road in '16 was the other one (UF in '10 was ranked 22 at the time). Dan was also shittaayyyyy against Top 20 teams at home. Joe knocked off 2 this year alone. In 9 season Dan won 6 games against teams ranked in the Top 25 at the time of the game. Joe's on pace to do that in year 3.

[smootness]

Field a competent offense, play smart and disciplined.

This year we were incompetent on offense when it mattered, we were lazy and undisciplined too often, and we made dumb mistakes.

[Scared_Hitless]

I think with Mullen this season we go 9-4 we went 8-5 with a new coach. How quickly forget all the seasons we underachieved with Mullen or he flat out didn't play to win. Remember going to Bama with everything on the line in 2014 and quitting in the 3rd quarter. I do, All coaches have issues either Joe fixes them or he doesn't. I mean we went 9-4 last year and we basically held place. When its all said and done we are going to have 4 losses to teams in the top 10. We were not better than any of them talent wise. Not to mention 3 came on the road. Florida has more talent then us overall we caught them early, but Dan knew exactly how to make Fitz crumble and it worked.

Only game I find hard to justify is Iowa, but hell the plays were there for the taking and players didnt make them.

[smootness]

I think with Mullen this season we go 9-4 we went 8-5 with a new coach. How quickly forget all the seasons we underachieved with Mullen or he flat out didn't play to win. Remember going to Bama with everything on the line in 2014 and quitting in the 3rd quarter. I do, All coaches have issues either Joe fixes them or he doesn't. I mean we went 9-4 last year and we basically held place. When its all said and done we are going to have 4 losses to teams in the top 10. We were not better than any of them talent wise. Not to mention 3 came on the road. Florida has more talent then us overall we caught them early, but Dan knew exactly how to make Fitz crumble and it worked.

Only game I find hard to justify is Iowa, but hell the plays were there for the taking and players didnt make them.

I think we go 12-1 with Mullen this year.

[Tbonewannabe]

A&M on the road in '16 was the other one (UF in '10 was ranked 22 at the time). Dan was also shittaayyyyy against Top 20 teams at home. Joe knocked off 2 this year alone. In 9 season Dan won 6 games against teams ranked in the Top 25 at the time of the game. Joe's on pace to do that in year 3.

Honestly, if you replaced the name on the UK jersey with A&M then most people are happier. Everyone can't get over UK actually having a good team and beating us on the road. We basically played one more tough team on the road and lost it but we didn't have a bad loss like UM in 2017. That is pretty much the difference. I will say Joe has to get his offense to work against good defenses. It isn't like Mullen didn't look like shit against the great defenses that Bama, AU, LSU, or UGA had but Moorhead now has higher expectations than Mullen.

[KOdawg1]

Just look like a competent football team. I can deal with losing. It's losing while looking lost and shooting your foot off with a 12 guage that is so annoying. We can learn a lot from Iowa. Be physical, aggressive but at the same time be disciplined.

For God's sake, let's stop letting the play clock roll down to 5 seconds every offensive play while our offensive linemen are crouched the whole time. That just gives the defense time to catch their breath and get lined up the exact way they want to. Mix things up. Run some hurry up. Be CREATIVE. That's what I thought we were getting with Moorhead but this year's offense was the most vanilla shit show I've ever seen.

[Scared_Hitless]

I think we go 12-1 with Mullen this year.

Based on his stellar road record? His domination of Top 25 teams? Come on the only game you probably flip in our favor based on his history is Florida since he wouldn't be there.

You also cannot say the D gets to this level with Grantham his D gave up tons of plays last year.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think we go 12-1 with Mullen this year.

You do realize Mullen lost to UM in 2014 when Wallace was barely able to run and throw? That was with the best team in MSU history. This team doesn't even compare to that one from an overall talent standpoint. Having a NFL QB behind center is a HUGE difference.

Also I guess since we are saying random coaches, Saban goes 15-0 with this team. We had as much possibility as Saban coaching as Lateral Move.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just look like a competent football team. I can deal with losing. It's losing while looking lost and shooting your foot off with a 12 guage that is so annoying. We can learn a lot from Iowa. Be physical, aggressive but at the same time be disciplined.

For God's sake, let's stop letting the play clock roll down to 5 seconds every offensive play while our offensive linemen are crouched the whole time. That just gives the defense time to catch their breath and get lined up the exact way they want to. Mix things up. Run some hurry up. Be CREATIVE. That's what I thought we were getting with Moorhead but this year's offense was the most vanilla shit show I've ever seen.

This is the biggest thing to me that Moorhead needs to address. A lot of times it was like watching Mullen call QB draws every play. I am debating whether Fitz up the gut is better than Holloway. Both was tough SOBs but neither we that successful when repeatedly attempted.

[Scared_Hitless]

You do realize Mullen lost to UM in 2014 when Wallace was barely able to run and throw? That was with the best team in MSU history. This team doesn't even compare to that one from an overall talent standpoint. Having a NFL QB behind center is a HUGE difference.

Also I guess since we are saying random coaches, Saban goes 15-0 with this team. We had as much possibility as Saban coaching as Lateral Move.

This 100% people are only looking at half the equation with this team the offensive talent is putrid. Sure on Defense we are elite, but in 2014 we were loaded with studs as well and Dan still couldn't beat UM or Bama. Lot of NFL players on that Roster and a NFL QB to run the show. We didn't have near that level this season. Not 1 WR for this teams starts in 14.

[Goldendawg]

I think with Mullen this season we go 9-4 we went 8-5 with a new coach. How quickly forget all the seasons we underachieved with Mullen or he flat out didn't play to win. Remember going to Bama with everything on the line in 2014 and quitting in the 3rd quarter. I do, All coaches have issues either Joe fixes them or he doesn't. I mean we went 9-4 last year and we basically held place. When its all said and done we are going to have 4 losses to teams in the top 10. We were not better than any of them talent wise. Not to mention 3 came on the road. Florida has more talent then us overall we caught them early, but Dan knew exactly how to make Fitz crumble and it worked.

Only game I find hard to justify is Iowa, but hell the plays were there for the taking and players didnt make them.

I disagree that KY had more talent than us. Other factors played into that loss. Hail State!

[smootness]

This 100% people are only looking at half the equation with this team the offensive talent is putrid. Sure on Defense we are elite, but in 2014 we were loaded with studs as well and Dan still couldn't beat UM or Bama. Lot of NFL players on that Roster and a NFL QB to run the show. We didn't have near that level this season. Not 1 WR for this teams starts in 14.

The offensive talent on this team is far from putrid.

We have a very good OL, a very good RB group, and a 5th-year senior who had just led the SEC in total yards. Sure, our WR weren't great but they have the talent to be better than they were.

[Goldendawg]

Just look like a competent football team. I can deal with losing. It's losing while looking lost and shooting your foot off with a 12 guage that is so annoying. We can learn a lot from Iowa. Be physical, aggressive but at the same time be disciplined.

For God's sake, let's stop letting the play clock roll down to 5 seconds every offensive play while our offensive linemen are crouched the whole time. That just gives the defense time to catch their breath and get lined up the exact way they want to. Mix things up. Run some hurry up. Be CREATIVE. That's what I thought we were getting with Moorhead but this year's offense was the most vanilla shit show I've ever seen.

Agree 100%. How many other SEC Head Coaches try to call their offensive plays in this manner? In fact, how many of them are calling the plays period?

[Tbonewannabe]

Based on his stellar road record? His domination of Top 25 teams? Come on the only game you probably flip in our favor based on his history is Florida since he wouldn't be there.

You also cannot say the D gets to this level with Grantham his D gave up tons of plays last year.

A lot don't think about this. If our Offense looked better and the defense was just top 25 like last year with the same record, I think there is a lot less bitching and moaning.

Fitz had a statiscally about the same as last year. We averaged about 3 points less per game but more Time of Possession. We also had a bigger point margin due to the defensive improvement. Some of that might be by design with a great defense. Shortening the game when you have a defense like that. We averaged more per play than previous years also.

It boils down to we played one more tougher opponent than the previous year, on the road where Mullen almost never won against a good team. We also didn't have a bad loss like last year's Egg Bowl.

[Scared_Hitless]

I disagree that KY had more talent than us. Other factors played into that loss. Hail State!

They were a better team than us. I believe the talent to be similar but it was a road game at night in a downpour. Not like Joe could stop Eiland from jumping everytime Josh Allen Blinked.

In 2014 with Dan's best team ever we had to return an Onside kick for a TD in Lexington to get out of there with a win. Just an FYI that KY team went 5-7. Its not easy to win on the road in the SEC.

[Scared_Hitless]

Agree 100%. How many other SEC Head Coaches try to call their offensive plays in this manner? In fact, how many of them are calling the plays period?

Currently Mullen, Gus, Jimbo, Moorhead, Morris all call plays for their teams. 5 out of 14 is alot and the majority are defensive minded coaches

[smootness]

A lot don't think about this. If our Offense looked better and the defense was just top 25 like last year with the same record, I think there is a lot less bitching and moaning.

Fitz had a statiscally about the same as last year. We averaged about 3 points less per game but more Time of Possession. We also had a bigger point margin due to the defensive improvement. Some of that might be by design with a great defense. Shortening the game when you have a defense like that. We averaged more per play than previous years also.

It boils down to we played one more tougher opponent than the previous year, on the road where Mullen almost never won against a good team. We also didn't have a bad loss like last year's Egg Bowl.

The jump you saw on defense is the kind of jump we should have seen on offense, too. Not to #1 obviously, but a similar jump in production. Why? Because everybody returned. Same reason we took a step forward on defense.

[Goldendawg]

If Moorhead lost fans after an 8 win season and a win over our rival, then our fans are unrealistic. And maybe some of that comes from never seeing a new coach following a successful coach. Guess what, Dan Mullen didn't average 8 wins a year. He won 10 only once. 4 of his 9 years were 7 wins or less.
I'm not saying I liked everything Jo did, and he's got some things he'll need to change/improve but a first year guy winning 8 games is solid.

He's the one who came in with talk of ring sizes, Heisman for Nick, and "Champion Standards". He added greatly to very high expectations. Lot of improvements needed to win me back, not that that means much in the grand scheme of things. I'm only a very long time season ticket holder who has seen a lot of State football and coaches lose a lot more than they have won since being at my 1st game in 1963. Hail State!

[Tbonewannabe]

I disagree that KY had more talent than us. Other factors played into that loss. Hail State!

I think UK was just a perfect storm. You would never know that they actually HATE MSU until you walk into that stadium. The last 2 times going up there, we have almost gotten into it with UK fans. They stormed the field.

Fitz trying to throw it instead of taking the yardage in front of him combined with the rain wasn't a good combination. Even with all that, if we don't have 160 yards in penalties then we have a good chance to win.

Mullen's team might not have had those penalties but if we did have 160 yards in penalties then Mullen doesn't win that game either.

[Scared_Hitless]

The jump you saw on defense is the kind of jump we should have seen on offense, too. Not to #1 obviously, but a similar jump in production. Why? Because everybody returned. Same reason we took a step forward on defense.

Counter argument there is you dont see that jump with Grantham, and with Mullen running the offense we may have progressed further we would have still been 1 dimensional which doesn't beat good teams. But hard to expect a leap when your switching your scheme completely. If you wanna fault Cohen on not hiring a better fit for the team I can get behind that.

[msstate7]

Counter argument there is you dont see that jump with Grantham, and with Mullen running the offense we may have progressed further we would have still been 1 dimensional which doesn't beat good teams. But hard to expect a leap when your switching your scheme completely. If you wanna fault Cohen on not hiring a better fit for the team I can get behind that.

3-4 defense last season

[Goldendawg]

They were a better team than us. I believe the talent to be similar but it was a road game at night in a downpour. Not like Joe could stop Eiland from jumping everytime Josh Allen Blinked.

In 2014 with Dan's best team ever we had to return an Onside kick for a TD in Lexington to get out of there with a win. Just an FYI that KY team went 5-7. Its not easy to win on the road in the SEC.

We played in the same rain with basically the same players back as them which beat them 45 - 7 at our place. This game was the 1st indication our players didn't fit his O. One of the "factors" along with penalties/lack of discipline that popped up all the way to the bowl game. BTW: You have less than 200 posts and I have over 3K. That means that I win just like when I get crushed by MS7's soon to be 50 K posts, Board Rule.****** Hail State!

[Scared_Hitless]

We played in the same rain with basically the same players back as them which beat them 45 - 7 at our place. This game was the 1st indication our players didn't fit his O. One of the "factors" along with penalties/lack of discipline that popped up all the way to the bowl game. BTW: You have less than 200 posts and I have over 3K. That means that I win just like when I get crushed by MS7's soon to be 50 K posts, Board Rule.****** Hail State!

We also beat Arkansas in OT last season and blasted them this year. Not much carry over year to year. I agree our players didnt fit but thats on Cohen he hired a guy to reinvent the program when it wasnt busted.

[CadaverDawg]

You people defending Joe with the "people mad at Joe after 8 wins are crazy" shit are being ridiculous. It's not the 8 wins people are pissed about...it's the 10 wins plus a bowl win that we should have had with this talent that we're pissed about. He won't have a better set up the remainder of his time here, and he pissed it away. He had a National Championship caliber defense for God's sake, and it was his own position group that blew it the whole year! Keep your head in the sand if you want, but to not be concerned is to not mind pissing away what Dan built and being okay with being back at Croom status. Because 8-5 with this team = 4-8/5-7 with our typical talent.

[Goldendawg]

We also beat Arkansas in OT last season and blasted them this year. Not much carry over year to year. I agree our players didnt fit but thats on Cohen he hired a guy to reinvent the program when it wasnt busted.

I think you and I can agree that Jo has never heard the expressions, "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" and "Don't try to pound square pegs into round holes". Maybe it will get better as he gets his guys. It will take recruiting at a level on O we have seldom seen in my lifetime and take more than a couple of this type classes to beat tough SEC defenses. His job to make it happen. Hope it can be done, I do not like the RPO offense. JMO.

[BrunswickDawg]

The jump you saw on defense is the kind of jump we should have seen on offense, too. Not to #1 obviously, but a similar jump in production. Why? Because everybody returned. Same reason we took a step forward on defense.

Just because we had a lot of returning players it doesn't guarantee a jump in production. If those players have limited skill sets, you aren't going to see some huge jump. And if there is anything we should be used to as MSU fans it's QB's with limited skills. How many times over the years have we soured on a SR MSU QB for just this reason. We have had exactly 1 QB in the last 30 years who has made a production jump from Jr. to Sr year. And that guy is winning for America's Team. Hell, go back to John Bond and name me an MSU QB who got drastically better over the course of their career. Bond didn't. Don Smith didn't. Sleepy got hurt but was having a bad year. Plump lost his job. Todd Jordan improved only because he lost his job his Jr. year - and led us to a 3-6-2 season. Taite split time with Wyatt because he didn't get better. Wyatt lost his job to a Freshman. Madkin got hurt but was an INT machine in '01. And no Croom QB got better. Tyson Lee's stats were worse under Mullen then under Croom. Relf got hurt but was terrible after he got stuffed at Auburn -so bad we actually put in Dylan Farve for a series or two against UGA. Russell lost his job to Dak - partly to injury, partly to Dak taking it. And believe me - I wanted Fitz to make a jump. I spent thru the LSU game rationalizing all sorts of things to explain away what others said from the git - Fitz's passing game pretty much stood still his 3 years at State.

The problem was that we all bought in to believing that the jump was inevitable.

[Scared_Hitless]

You people defending Joe with the "people mad at Joe after 8 wins are crazy" shit are being ridiculous. It's not the 8 wins people are pissed about...it's the 10 wins plus a bowl win that we should have had with this talent that we're pissed about. He won't have a better set up the remainder of his time here, and he pissed it away. He had a National Championship caliber defense for God's sake, and it was his own position group that blew it the whole year! Keep your head in the sand if you want, but to not be concerned is to not mind pissing away what Dan built and being okay with being back at Croom status. Because 8-5 with this team = 4-8/5-7 with our typical talent.

The only talent on this team is on D. They live up to their hype, but to say we wont ever have talent again is dumb. How many four stars do we have oh wait 21 total and 5 were FR. We have a few elite players and everyone is acting like we had Bama level talent. Just FYI Moorhead has 7 Committed 4 stars in his first year, with Cross possibly being a 5 star. Step back from the ledge and tell me where this elite talent is outside of Simmons, Sweat and Abram. Dan doesn't do any better with this team than 9-3. And he probably slips on his ass in November when he is job hunting.

[smootness]

Just because we had a lot of returning players it doesn't guarantee a jump in production. If those players have limited skill sets, you aren't going to see some huge jump. And if there is anything we should be used to as MSU fans it's QB's with limited skills. How many times over the years have we soured on a SR MSU QB for just this reason. We have had exactly 1 QB in the last 30 years who has made a production jump from Jr. to Sr year. And that guy is winning for America's Team. Hell, go back to John Bond and name me an MSU QB who got drastically better over the course of their career. Bond didn't. Don Smith didn't. Sleepy got hurt but was having a bad year. Plump lost his job. Todd Jordan improved only because he lost his job his Jr. year - and led us to a 3-6-2 season. Taite split time with Wyatt because he didn't get better. Wyatt lost his job to a Freshman. Madkin got hurt but was an INT machine in '01. And no Croom QB got better. Tyson Lee's stats were worse under Mullen then under Croom. Relf got hurt but was terrible after he got stuffed at Auburn -so bad we actually played Dylan Farve against UGA. Russell lost his job to Dak - partly to injury, partly to Dak taking it. And believe me - I wanted Fitz to make a jump. I spent thru the LSU game rationalizing all sorts of things to explain away what others said from the git - Fitz's passing game pretty much stood still his 3 years at State.

The problem was that we all bought in to believing that the jump was inevitable.

Then you give him less responsibility, not more.

He was our whole offense this year.

[Scared_Hitless]

I think you and I can agree that Jo has never heard the expressions, "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" and "Don't try to pound square pegs into round holes". Maybe it will get better as he gets his guys. It will take recruiting at a level on O we have seldom seen in my lifetime and take more than a couple of this type classes to beat tough SEC defenses. His job to make it happen. Hope it can be done, I do not like the RPO offense. JMO.

I can agree with that sentiment. And it all comes down to recruiting like always. Moorhead knows his offense not Dan's and all coaches have a level of arrogance. To me 8-5 is disappointing but not shocked.

[BrunswickDawg]

Then you give him less responsibility, not more.

He was our whole offense this year.

He's been our whole offense for 3 years.

[msstate7]

You people defending Joe with the "people mad at Joe after 8 wins are crazy" shit are being ridiculous. It's not the 8 wins people are pissed about...it's the 10 wins plus a bowl win that we should have had with this talent that we're pissed about. He won't have a better set up the remainder of his time here, and he pissed it away. He had a National Championship caliber defense for God's sake, and it was his own position group that blew it the whole year! Keep your head in the sand if you want, but to not be concerned is to not mind pissing away what Dan built and being okay with being back at Croom status. Because 8-5 with this team = 4-8/5-7 with our typical talent.

Go back and look at the preseason picks for this team. Pretty much everyone here said 9-3 or above. Now the board wants to say it was the players not Moorhead. This all boils down to no one wanting to admit Mullen is better than Moorhead therefore can't blame Moorhead. We were favored in 10 games this year. Our o/u was 8.5. Moorhead wasn't coming into a normal new head coaching position.

[msstate7]

He's been our whole offense for 3 years.

Aeris outrushed fitz last year. Aeris by year...
2016 - 720 yds
2017 - 1107
2018 - 524

[BrunswickDawg]

Go back and look at the preseason picks for this team. Pretty much everyone here said 9-3 or above. Now the board wants to say it was the players not Moorhead. This all boils down to no one wanting to admit Mullen is better than Moorhead therefore can't blame Moorhead. We were favored in 10 games this year. Our o/u was 8.5. Moorhead wasn't coming into a normal new head coaching position.

And that shows none of us should be gambling. And I picked us at 15-0. LOL

[Tbonewannabe]

You people defending Joe with the "people mad at Joe after 8 wins are crazy" shit are being ridiculous. It's not the 8 wins people are pissed about...it's the 10 wins plus a bowl win that we should have had with this talent that we're pissed about. He won't have a better set up the remainder of his time here, and he pissed it away. He had a National Championship caliber defense for God's sake, and it was his own position group that blew it the whole year! Keep your head in the sand if you want, but to not be concerned is to not mind pissing away what Dan built and being okay with being back at Croom status. Because 8-5 with this team = 4-8/5-7 with our typical talent.

Well then 2011, should we have fired Mullen for winning 6 with 8 win talent? How about 2016 winning 5 with 7 win talent? How about 2014 winning 10 with 11 or 12 win talent?

Fact is, Moorhead's offense didn't look great with the round peg at QB into the square hole of the offense. We still won pretty much the ones we should have. We lost toss up games. We were never going to beat Bama. We were probably not going to beat LSU at night in Death Valley after embarrassing them the year before.

When UF hired Mullen then that basically became a toss up game. He is a great coach and UF has a lot of talent (disregard the 4 wins due to the coaching dumpster fire).

UK had a team that was basically the equivalent of our 99 team. Tough defense and the team seemed to almost always have the ball bounce their way. It was UK's greatest team since Bear Bryant left.

Auburn was a toss up game we won. Most people thought AU had a better defense and QB.

A&M was another toss up game we won. Jimbo is also a great coach and he stepped into a lot of talent.

People talking about how talented we are, look at the recruiting rankings for the last 5 years. If you take out Simmons, Sweat, and Abram off our team then every team we lost to along with AU and A&M were overall more talented. We had 3 great players but the other teams don't have SWAC level talent.

[CadaverDawg]

The only talent on this team is on D. They live up to their hype, but to say we wont ever have talent again is dumb. How many four stars do we have oh wait 21 total and 5 were FR. We have a few elite players and everyone is acting like we had Bama level talent. Just FYI Moorhead has 7 Committed 4 stars in his first year, with Cross possibly being a 5 star. Step back from the ledge and tell me where this elite talent is outside of Simmons, Sweat and Abram. Dan doesn't do any better with this team than 9-3. And he probably slips on his ass in November when he is job hunting.

It was the best combo of talent & experience we may ever have. Keep your head in the sand if you want. But if you can't see that he was setup for success, you're lying to yourself

[CadaverDawg]

Go back and look at the preseason picks for this team. Pretty much everyone here said 9-3 or above. Now the board wants to say it was the players not Moorhead. This all boils down to no one wanting to admit Mullen is better than Moorhead therefore can't blame Moorhead. We were favored in 10 games this year. Our o/u was 8.5. Moorhead wasn't coming into a normal new head coaching position.

Exactly

[Goldendawg]

You people defending Joe with the "people mad at Joe after 8 wins are crazy" shit are being ridiculous. It's not the 8 wins people are pissed about...it's the 10 wins plus a bowl win that we should have had with this talent that we're pissed about. He won't have a better set up the remainder of his time here, and he pissed it away. He had a National Championship caliber defense for God's sake, and it was his own position group that blew it the whole year! Keep your head in the sand if you want, but to not be concerned is to not mind pissing away what Dan built and being okay with being back at Croom status. Because 8-5 with this team = 4-8/5-7 with our typical talent.

100% on my disgust. Well put! We were much better than what he delivered. Reminded me of Croom/Woody/West Coast Offense.

[msstate7]

100% on my disgust. Well put! We were much better than what he delivered. Reminded me of Croom/Woody/West Coast Offense.

Good job. You saw my post count and submitted to my side haha

[Goldendawg]

Well then 2011, should we have fired Mullen for winning 6 with 8 win talent? How about 2016 winning 5 with 7 win talent? How about 2014 winning 10 with 11 or 12 win talent?

Fact is, Moorhead's offense didn't look great with the round peg at QB into the square hole of the offense. We still won pretty much the ones we should have. We lost toss up games. We were never going to beat Bama. We were probably not going to beat LSU at night in Death Valley after embarrassing them the year before.

When UF hired Mullen then that basically became a toss up game. He is a great coach and UF has a lot of talent (disregard the 4 wins due to the coaching dumpster fire).

UK had a team that was basically the equivalent of our 99 team. Tough defense and the team seemed to almost always have the ball bounce their way. It was UK's greatest team since Bear Bryant left.

Auburn was a toss up game we won. Most people thought AU had a better defense and QB.

A&M was another toss up game we won. Jimbo is also a great coach and he stepped into a lot of talent.

People talking about how talented we are, look at the recruiting rankings for the last 5 years. If you take out Simmons, Sweat, and Abram off our team then every team we lost to along with AU and A&M were overall more talented. We had 3 great players but the other teams don't have SWAC level talent.

But Simmons, Sweat, and Abram were on the team. Good coaches try to fit players to the scheme. Jo tried to stubbornly change their world on O in one season.

[Tbonewannabe]

Go back and look at the preseason picks for this team. Pretty much everyone here said 9-3 or above. Now the board wants to say it was the players not Moorhead. This all boils down to no one wanting to admit Mullen is better than Moorhead therefore can't blame Moorhead. We were favored in 10 games this year. Our o/u was 8.5. Moorhead wasn't coming into a normal new head coaching position.

And exactly zero people expected UK to be a top 15 team and win 10 games. There you go, everyone was right if you throw out the outlier. Congrats, you just proved we should have been 8-4 by everyone's expectations.

[bluelightstar]

Well then 2011, should we have fired Mullen for winning 6 with 8 win talent? How about 2016 winning 5 with 7 win talent? How about 2014 winning 10 with 11 or 12 win talent?

Fact is, Moorhead's offense didn't look great with the round peg at QB into the square hole of the offense. We still won pretty much the ones we should have. We lost toss up games. We were never going to beat Bama. We were probably not going to beat LSU at night in Death Valley after embarrassing them the year before.

When UF hired Mullen then that basically became a toss up game. He is a great coach and UF has a lot of talent (disregard the 4 wins due to the coaching dumpster fire).

UK had a team that was basically the equivalent of our 99 team. Tough defense and the team seemed to almost always have the ball bounce their way. It was UK's greatest team since Bear Bryant left.

Auburn was a toss up game we won. Most people thought AU had a better defense and QB.

A&M was another toss up game we won. Jimbo is also a great coach and he stepped into a lot of talent.

People talking about how talented we are, look at the recruiting rankings for the last 5 years. If you take out Simmons, Sweat, and Abram off our team then every team we lost to along with AU and A&M were overall more talented. We had 3 great players but the other teams don't have SWAC level talent.

Okay, now the Moorhead excuses are getting outrageous.

[Goldendawg]

The only talent on this team is on D. They live up to their hype, but to say we wont ever have talent again is dumb. How many four stars do we have oh wait 21 total and 5 were FR. We have a few elite players and everyone is acting like we had Bama level talent. Just FYI Moorhead has 7 Committed 4 stars in his first year, with Cross possibly being a 5 star. Step back from the ledge and tell me where this elite talent is outside of Simmons, Sweat and Abram. Dan doesn't do any better with this team than 9-3. And he probably slips on his ass in November when he is job hunting.

I will feel better when these remaining commits be come signees in Feb.

[Tbonewannabe]

It was the best combo of talent & experience we may ever have. Keep your head in the sand if you want. But if you can't see that he was setup for success, you're lying to yourself

Are you actually saying this team was more talented than 2014? Dude quit day drinking. Just a reminder, 2014 had 3 guys on it that have been selected to the Pro Bowl as of right now. Doesn't even include Preston Smith who should be on that list.

We have zero players on this team as impactful as having a Pro Bowl NFL QB. There might not be a single player from 2018 Offense that would start for 2014, maybe Jenkins but that is probably it.

[Goldendawg]

Good job. You saw my post count and submitted to my side haha

Heck yeah! I have 9 green bars now and kicking in the 4 bbl like on my 79 vette to close that 47K lead! Happy New Year and Hail State!

[Tbonewannabe]

Okay, now the Moorhead excuses are getting outrageous.

I was saying that we weren't playing SWAC level talent every week. Don't get your panties in a wad. Just saying our players outside of Simmons, Sweat, and Abram aren't somehow on Bama's level.

[msstate7]

Are you actually saying this team was more talented than 2014? Dude quit day drinking. Just a reminder, 2014 had 3 guys on it that have been selected to the Pro Bowl as of right now. Doesn't even include Preston Smith who should be on that list.

We have zero players on this team as impactful as having a Pro Bowl NFL QB. There might not be a single player from 2018 Offense that would start for 2014, maybe Jenkins but that is probably it.

2014 we finished 86th in total defense. We finished #1 this year

[CadaverDawg]

Well then 2011, should we have fired Mullen for winning 6 with 8 win talent? How about 2016 winning 5 with 7 win talent? How about 2014 winning 10 with 11 or 12 win talent?

Fact is, Moorhead's offense didn't look great with the round peg at QB into the square hole of the offense. We still won pretty much the ones we should have. We lost toss up games. We were never going to beat Bama. We were probably not going to beat LSU at night in Death Valley after embarrassing them the year before.

When UF hired Mullen then that basically became a toss up game. He is a great coach and UF has a lot of talent (disregard the 4 wins due to the coaching dumpster fire).

UK had a team that was basically the equivalent of our 99 team. Tough defense and the team seemed to almost always have the ball bounce their way. It was UK's greatest team since Bear Bryant left.

Auburn was a toss up game we won. Most people thought AU had a better defense and QB.

A&M was another toss up game we won. Jimbo is also a great coach and he stepped into a lot of talent.

People talking about how talented we are, look at the recruiting rankings for the last 5 years. If you take out Simmons, Sweat, and Abram off our team then every team we lost to along with AU and A&M were overall more talented. We had 3 great players but the other teams don't have SWAC level talent.

It's not just talent...it's EXPERIENCED talent. You Moorhead defenders are trying too hard, and I get it, it sucks admitting our new coach sucks...but denying the negatives is what leads to him being here too long. Tell me something positive he did this year....a position group on his offense that improved....a team attribute that was strong under him? Wasn't discipline...anything?

If not for the D we might be 6-6

[Goldendawg]

Go back and look at the preseason picks for this team. Pretty much everyone here said 9-3 or above. Now the board wants to say it was the players not Moorhead. This all boils down to no one wanting to admit Mullen is better than Moorhead therefore can't blame Moorhead. We were favored in 10 games this year. Our o/u was 8.5. Moorhead wasn't coming into a normal new head coaching position.

Most on this board, including myself, also believed and posted that Mullen's lack of finishing vs. Jo's offensive history as a coach and our returning talent would take us to the next level. 8-5 this year no where close to any "Champion Standards" or even close to competing for it.

[Goldendawg]

I was saying that we weren't playing SWAC level talent every week. Don't get your panties in a wad. Just saying our players outside of Simmons, Sweat, and Abram aren't somehow on Bama's level.

I don't think anyone thinks we had bama level talent but we had better than a 8 - 5 talented team this year.

[Goldendawg]

It's not just talent...it's EXPERIENCED talent. You Moorhead defenders are trying too hard, and I get it, it sucks admitting our new coach sucks...but denying the negatives is what leads to him being here too long. Tell me something positive he did this year....a position group on his offense that improved....a team attribute that was strong under him? Wasn't discipline...anything?

If not for the D we might be 6-6

Win me back? I have great fear that 2019 season won't do it. Hope he proves me wrong! Hail State!

[Cooterpoot]

It's not just talent...it's EXPERIENCED talent. You Moorhead defenders are trying too hard, and I get it, it sucks admitting our new coach sucks...but denying the negatives is what leads to him being here too long. Tell me something positive he did this year....a position group on his offense that improved....a team attribute that was strong under him? Wasn't discipline...anything?

If not for the D we might be 6-6

Name the experienced "talent" on offense. I see 2 OL that get drafted but after that, not much on that side of the ball. And 6-6 would still be better than that experienced talent produced 2 years ago. If Mullen had stayed, it probably is a game or two better record, but this is his talent he recruited for his system.

[CadaverDawg]

#1 D in the country + Offensive Guru Head Coach = 8-5??!! That's fireable. And even worse when you factor in a 5th year QB, stable of RB's, veteran OL. Unacceptable, period.

[Cooterpoot]

#1 D in the country + Offensive Guru Head Coach = 8-5??!! That's fireable. And even worse when you factor in a 5th year QB, stable of RB's, veteran OL. Unacceptable, period.

A 5th year QB that can't hit the broad side of a barn. Worst WR corp maybe in our history. Two NFL OL with no real tackles. That offensive talent was putrid for what our new system requires.

[msstate7]

Name the experienced "talent" on offense. I see 2 OL that get drafted but after that, not much on that side of the ball. And 6-6 would still be better than that experienced talent produced 2 years ago. If Mullen had stayed, it probably is a game or two better record, but this is his talent he recruited for his system.

Aeris had 1600 yards rushing coming into the year. Fitz was top 17 in the country both years in qbr. Kylin was being touted Barkley 2.0 here preseason

[Goldendawg]

Name the experienced "talent" on offense. I see 2 OL that get drafted but after that, not much on that side of the ball. And 6-6 would still be better than that experienced talent produced 2 years ago. If Mullen had stayed, it probably is a game or two better record, but this is his talent he recruited for his system.

Experienced talent in college doesn't mean they are all NFL draft choices or not good players at the college level. A "game or two better record" under Jo, not Dan, ( thanks for the good things he did), is 9 - 4 or 10 - 3, big difference with our expectations, many voiced by Jo.

[Dawg61]

Not reading this whole thread. Moorhead hasn't lost me. I'm waiting to see what he does with Keytaon first.

[Goldendawg]

Aeris had 1600 yards rushing coming into the year. Fitz was top 17 in the country both years in qbr. Kylin was being touted Barkley 2.0 here preseason

Don't forget Jo's talk of ring sizes and a Heisman with what he saw and tried to change at once.!

[Cooterpoot]

Aeris had 1600 yards rushing coming into the year. Fitz was top 17 in the country both years in qbr. Kylin was being touted Barkley 2.0 here preseason

In a different offensive system. Fitz's numbers were in that system and his rating higher due to the runs as well. I do believe Jo misused his talent a little with the RBs though. That I agree with and have said all season long. But you can't blame him for trying to install his system. He doesn't run Mullen's system.

[CadaverDawg]

Name the experienced "talent" on offense. I see 2 OL that get drafted but after that, not much on that side of the ball. And 6-6 would still be beitter than that experienced talent produced 2 years ago. If Mullen had stayed, it probably is a game or two better record, but this is his talent he recruited for his system.

Seriously? 5th year Senior QB that is the all time SEC leading rusher for QBs....1100 yard rusher plus 4 Star Kylin, veteran talented OL, veteran TE's, #1 Juco WR, veteran slot guys. Get the **** out of here with the "no talent on offense" bullshit. Was it as good as the D? No, but thanks to the D it didn't need to be as good...and it STILL sucked! The only lack of talent on offense was the man running it, who happens to be our head coach and "Offensive Guru"

[msstate7]

Don't forget Jo's talk of ring sizes and a Heisman with what he saw and tried to change at once.!

Moorhead said no one picked his offense up faster than us. Moorhead was shocked as any poster here when Kentucky destroyed his offense. He had no clue

[Goldendawg]

A 5th year QB that can't hit the broad side of a barn. Worst WR corp maybe in our history. Two NFL OL with no real tackles. That offensive talent was putrid for what our new system requires.

Bingo, but he tried to run the system at once with players you and he evaluate.

[Tbonewannabe]

2014 we finished 86th in total defense. We finished #1 this year

That has a lot to do with Mullen's bend but don't break defensive philosophy. Compare that to Shoop's philosophy of not giving up one blade of grass and rain hell down. I like Shoop's better.

I am not saying that 2014 defense was better but compare the actual talent which is what he said.

Dak the next year broke almost every rookie NFL passing record. I doubt anyone on this roster will have that type of impact.

Josh Robinson in college was easily equal to any of our RBs this year. Kylin does have more potential in the NFL.

2014 Oline - Jenkins might start but that 2014 line was really damn good.

2014 WRs - I don't think any of 2017 would even see the field.

2014 TE Malcolm Johnson was drafted and started - it was at Cleveland so *. I would like to have seen Dontae Jones more involved this year.

So out of the offense, maybe Kylin and Jenkins get on the field.

2014 DE Preston Smith - pretty much about equal with Sweat.
2014 DE Ryan Brown - played a little for Cincinnati - probably about equal to Green
2014 DT Chris Jones - if Simmons does as well then we will be known as DLINE U.
2014 DT Kaleb Eulls - played some for the Saints - probably about equal to either Hoyett or Thomas.

2014 LB Matt Wells - cheetah was a badass college player and drafted by Pats. Gay probably has a better NFL talent.
2014 LB McKinney - Pro Bowl Middle LB who has led the Texans almost every year in tackles. Thompson is good but not this level good. Hopefully
2014 LB Bennie Brown - FA with the Packers. Was the brains of the defense. At least a push with Leo Lewis.

2014 CB Will Redmond - was fantastic before a knee injury. I think he is still in the NFL. Probably a push with Peters.
2014 CB Taveze Calhoun - very smart player bouncing around practice squads. Dantzler is probably better.

2014 S Justin Cox - NFL potential with a ten cent head. If he stayed out of trouble then he probably is playing in the NFL. Abram big advantage here.
2014 S Kendrick Market or Jay Hughes - Neither really had much chance at the NFL. Both more intelligent players but limited physically. McLaurin with the advantage here.

So a combined 2014/2018 team would be hell on wheels.

Dak at QB
Either Robinson or Kylin at RB
2014 WR
2014 TE
2014 Oline with Jenkins added and maybe Williams opposite Beckwith at Guard

Preston Smith at DE
Chris Jones at DT
Simmons at DT
Sweat at DE

Gay at LB
McKinney at LB
Bennie Brown at LB

Will Redmond at Corner
Dantzler at Corner

Abram at Safety
McLaurin at Safety

[Cooterpoot]

Moorhead said no one picked his offense up faster than us. Moorhead was shocked as any poster here when Kentucky destroyed his offense. He had no clue

Jo underestimated the SEC defensive speed and skill level and Fitz was great in practice. Nobody is saying everything was perfect. But winning 8 games and people wanting him fired is ridiculous.

[CadaverDawg]

Moorhead said no one picked his offense up faster than us. Moorhead was shocked as any poster here when Kentucky destroyed his offense. He had no clue

Haha funny how Joe defeated their points in his own words, yet they still defend away

[Tbonewannabe]

#1 D in the country + Offensive Guru Head Coach = 8-5??!! That's fireable. And even worse when you factor in a 5th year QB, stable of RB's, veteran OL. Unacceptable, period.

Was Mullen going to hire Moorhead's defensive coaches? Grantham had this same talent 23rd.

Do we know for a fact that it isn't the coaches that actually developed these guys to the #1 defense? We gave up one play all year over 50 yards. Grantham has that by the 3rd game. You don't get to include Mullen being here and having this level of defense.

[CadaverDawg]

Was Mullen going to hire Moorhead's defensive coaches? Grantham had this same talent 23rd.

Do we know for a fact that it isn't the coaches that actually developed these guys to the #1 defense? We gave up one play all year over 50 yards. Grantham has that by the 3rd game. You don't get to include Mullen being here and having this level of defense.

Joe didn't coach the D. Try again.

[Tbonewannabe]

Haha funny how Joe defeated their points in his own words, yet they still defend away

I think it was more that he thought Fitz had more of a grasp on the offense. At the end of the year I heard Fitz say he mastered the offense. I about laughed my ass off. Maybe he looks good in practice but then with the speed of the game, he just falls back into old habits of just run.

[Tbonewannabe]

Joe didn't coach the D. Try again.

Weird, I thought he was the head coach and was responsible for hiring the Defensive coaches and overseeing everything.

[Cooterpoot]

I think it was more that he thought Fitz had more of a grasp on the offense. At the end of the year I heard Fitz say he mastered the offense. I about laughed my ass off. Maybe he looks good in practice but then with the speed of the game, he just falls back into old habits of just run.

Exactly. Fitz was great in practice and struggled under game pressure and having to read real defenses. Part of why I didn't agree with Jo playing the guy that looked the best in practice.

[msstate7]

I think it was more that he thought Fitz had more of a grasp on the offense. At the end of the year I heard Fitz say he mastered the offense. I about laughed my ass off. Maybe he looks good in practice but then with the speed of the game, he just falls back into old habits of just run.

Fitz had full command of the offense vs every team we were much more talented than. When talent was equal or less, we were abysmal. I think this offense needs superior talent to work

[Cooterpoot]

Fitz had full command of the offense vs every team we were much more talented than. When talent was equal or less, we were abysmal. I think this offense needs superior talent to work

Difference in speed and the skill of the opponents and their coaches. SEC defenses are the NFL of college football. Fitz couldn't even locate wide open WRs. He panicked at times like he has from day one on campus. You can go back and watch him in previous years and see him do many of the same things. He lost his crap sometimes.
Mullen's offense allowed us to play guards at the tackle spots. We need quality tackles (we have two coming), a legit QB, and some receivers.

[Scared_Hitless]

Seriously? 5th year Senior QB that is the all time SEC leading rusher for QBs....1100 yard rusher plus 4 Star Kylin, veteran talented OL, veteran TE's, #1 Juco WR, veteran slot guys. Get the **** out of here with the "no talent on offense" bullshit. Was it as good as the D? No, but thanks to the D it didn't need to be as good...and it STILL sucked! The only lack of talent on offense was the man running it, who happens to be our head coach and "Offensive Guru"

So a Two-Star Oline, QB, WR Core are the talent you are referring to correct. QB that could run and couldn't pass he regressed in an RPO system but not much he is what he is. Guess a 4 Star in Guidry and Hill were supposed to tote the load. Except one of these guys couldnt catch a cold. Stop overselling what he walked into. We dropped 4 games last year with the same talent. But Mullen would have won 11 for sure**

[Tbonewannabe]

Fitz had full command of the offense vs every team we were much more talented than. When talent was equal or less, we were abysmal. I think this offense needs superior talent to work

It definitely requires a QB that is willing to hand the ball to the RB or hit the open WR. Of course when he did throw it, the WR was about 50/50 to catch it.

I am not sold on Moorhead's offense, I am just not sure that Croom has disguised himself as a 45 year old white guy from Pittsburgh.

[CadaverDawg]

So a Two-Star Oline, QB, WR Core are the talent you are referring to correct. QB that could run and couldn't pass he regressed in an RPO system but not much he is what he is. Guess a 4 Star in Guidry and Hill were supposed to tote the load. Except one of these guys couldnt catch a cold. Stop overselling what he walked into. We dropped 4 games last year with the same talent. But Mullen would have won 11 for sure**

Smh, keep your head in the sand. Read your post again...you defeated it with your own words. Same team with a year more experience and added talent yielded worse results. Ha, you guys are scrambling...why not just admit it....Joe didn't do a damn thing well this year outside of hiring Shoop. Why is it so hard to say?

[Scared_Hitless]

Smh, keep your head in the sand. Read your post again...you defeated it with your own words. Same team with a year more experience and added talent yielded worse results. Ha, you guys are scrambling...why not just admit it....Joe didn't do a damn thing well this year outside of hiring Shoop. Why is it so hard to say?

Same low level talent yep with the same results. 8-4 schedule got tougher and we didnt shit the bed against any teams worse than us. Should have beaten Iowa. Guess we just throw out the AU and A&M games seemed like those were pretty good things. The kids played for him he is recruiting better than Dan did. Noone can see the future just hard for me to imagine it getting worse than Nick attempting 30 passes per game. Smoked Ark and OM as well.

What coach do you suggest Mullen wasn't winning 5 or more conference games either in year 9 but Joe gets no slack I just dont get it.

[Bdawg]

Seriously? 5th year Senior QB that is the all time SEC leading rusher for QBs....1100 yard rusher plus 4 Star Kylin, veteran talented OL, veteran TE's, #1 Juco WR, veteran slot guys. Get the **** out of here with the "no talent on offense" bullshit. Was it as good as the D? No, but thanks to the D it didn't need to be as good...and it STILL sucked! The only lack of talent on offense was the man running it, who happens to be our head coach and "Offensive Guru"

Im not giving Moorhead a pass, but just because players are veterans doesn't make them worth a s**t. QB is a great runner; can't pass for s**t. We do have good RBs that Moorhead underutilized. OL was good in the interior but weak at tackle(inexperienced). #1 Juco Wr has one the worst drop rates and underperformed(can't blame Moorhead for that). Slot guys were ok. Still didn't see them running wide open out there very much. And TE, maybe there is a reason Moorhead and Mullen didn't use them very much. Maybe they are not very good or underutilized? I don't know but they sure didn't show up in any games I watched. Like a said, I'm not giving Moorhead a pass, but its not like we should have been some offensive juggernaut either. We are super one dimensional and that doesn't translate to a lot of success.

[Tbonewannabe]

Smh, keep your head in the sand. Read your post again...you defeated it with your own words. Same team with a year more experience and added talent yielded worse results. Ha, you guys are scrambling...why not just admit it....Joe didn't do a damn thing well this year outside of hiring Shoop. Why is it so hard to say?

Auburn and A&M were good things he did. I had actually chalked up Auburn as a loss whether Mullen was here or not. I optimistically thought 10-2 but 9-3 was more likely. I figured we would lose a game between at LSU or A&M. I didn't factor on UK having a dream season for them or Mullen making UF better that quickly, which in hindsight was dumb to think Grantham would struggle on D.

Here is a shocker, UF has more projected 1-2 round picks than we do. Weird how everyone assumed that UF getting good coaches wouldn't matter. All that and if Mitchell catches the ball we win.

[msstate7]

Auburn and A&M were good things he did. I had actually chalked up Auburn as a loss whether Mullen was here or not. I optimistically thought 10-2 but 9-3 was more likely. I figured we would lose a game between at LSU or A&M. I didn't factor on UK having a dream season for them or Mullen making UF better that quickly, which in hindsight was dumb to think Grantham would struggle on D.

Here is a shocker, UF has more projected 1-2 round picks than we do. Weird how everyone assumed that UF getting good coaches wouldn't matter. All that and if Mitchell catches the ball we win.

Not sure how this board has decided we win that game if Mitchell catches that ball. Are we assuming we go for 2 and get it? Florida offense just run the stansbury stall after they went up bc they knew we couldn't score.

[Tbonewannabe]

Not sure how this board has decided we win that game if Mitchell catches that ball. Are we assuming we go for 2 and get it? Florida offense just run the stansbury stall after they went up bc they knew we couldn't score.

If you were in the stadium when he dropped it you would understand why people think that. Football is a game of momentum and we were about to kick their ass when we took the lead. We were winning at the time and my wife just looked at me and said we were going to lose. You just felt it.

[msstate7]

If you were in the stadium when he dropped it you would understand why people think that. Football is a game of momentum and we were about to kick their ass when we took the lead. We were winning at the time and my wife just looked at me and said we were going to lose. You just felt it.

Just don't see how it can be stated as fact.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just don't see how it can be stated as fact.

I guess it is the same as saying you are disappointed that we didn't win more games since Mullen would have. It isn't like Mullen averaged more than 8 wins a year so by the numbers, we won exactly how many we should have.

[MarketingBully]

If Moorhead lost fans after an 8 win season and a win over our rival, then our fans are unrealistic. And maybe some of that comes from never seeing a new coach following a successful coach. Guess what, Dan Mullen didn't average 8 wins a year. He won 10 only once. 4 of his 9 years were 7 wins or less.
I'm not saying I liked everything Jo did, and he's got some things he'll need to change/improve but a first year guy winning 8 games is solid.

Did someone take over your account? I?m finding myself agreeing with your posts more and more. Great posts in this thread btw.

[msstate7]

Did someone take over your account? I?m finding myself agreeing with your posts more and more. Great posts in this thread btw.

Well he's gone full on rainbows and puppy dogs haha

[Tbonewannabe]

Well he's gone full on rainbows and puppy dogs haha

I guess someone has to bring a balance to gloom and doom. :)

[msstate7]

I guess someone has to bring a balance to gloom and doom. :)

I like to think I give credit when due and criticism when it's due. I was praising our basketball team preseason and haven't stopped. I think the job Henderson did with our baseball team was freaking unbelievable.

[Tbonewannabe]

I like to think I give credit when due and criticism when it's due. I was praising our basketball team preseason and haven't stopped. I think the job Henderson did with our baseball team was freaking unbelievable.

I definitely think Moorhead did a subpar job on calling the offense this year, I am just not willing to throw it all away without seeing what he can do with a QB that will actually throw the ball to the primary open receiver on a flea flicker.

To me that play symbolized our entire season. Moorhead actually called the perfect play against Bama and Fitz just didn't throw the ball. No pressure causing him to tuck it and run and the WR was more open than probably any receiver this year on a Bama secondary.

I do wonder if Moorhead has protected Fitz. He has proven to be a players coach so it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't publicizing Fitz's screw ups.

[BB30]

The reason we only won 8 games and lost 5 is simple. That di** that came on here after the KSU game and said there was no way this team would lose more than two games. Said it was impossible and railed anyone stating otherwise. Don't remember who it was but that right there jinxed us. Even if you believe that to be true you don't mess with good juju like that.

We already have issues with indians etc. you don't tempt the football gods like that when dealing with Mississippi State*

[Pit Bull]

Just Win Babyyyyy!!!

[RocketDawg]

Did someone take over your account? I?m finding myself agreeing with your posts more and more. Great posts in this thread btw.

It's his wife posting. **

[Goldendawg]

Fitz had full command of the offense vs every team we were much more talented than. When talent was equal or less, we were abysmal. I think this offense needs superior talent to work

I agree that we will have to have to recruit this superior ("So there is a Chance" - See Dumb and Dumber for %), on O for this system to work. Question is can we beat bama, AU, UM (receiver$), LSU, Ga, to do it and it will be very difficult and will take time. I don't think this system will ever work against the blue bloods' D. Maybe if we can make calls quicker to his QB and everyone else knows what to do with a few more seconds to think about.

[Goldendawg]

Same low level talent yep with the same results. 8-4 schedule got tougher and we didnt shit the bed against any teams worse than us. Should have beaten Iowa. Guess we just throw out the AU and A&M games seemed like those were pretty good things. The kids played for him he is recruiting better than Dan did. Noone can see the future just hard for me to imagine it getting worse than Nick attempting 30 passes per game. Smoked Ark and OM as well.

What coach do you suggest Mullen wasn't winning 5 or more conference games either in year 9 but Joe gets no slack I just dont get it.

Yeah UM and Arky were real powerhouses, along with OOC competition. His O looked good against teams with little pulse excepting maybe AU and aTm.

[Tbonewannabe]

I agree that we will have to have to recruit this superior ("So there is a Chance" - See Dumb and Dumber for %), on O for this system to work. Question is can we beat bama, AU, UM (receiver$), LSU, Ga, to do it and it will be very difficult and will take time. I don't think this system will ever work against the blue bloods' D. Maybe if we can make calls quicker to his QB and everyone else knows what to do with a few more seconds to think about.

No different than the last 9 years under Mullen. Other than 2014 & 2015 how many times did we move the ball on great defenses? I guess we did almost win against Bama before Mullen shit the bed with his playcallling.

[Goldendawg]

I guess it is the same as saying you are disappointed that we didn't win more games since Mullen would have. It isn't like Mullen averaged more than 8 wins a year so by the numbers, we won exactly how many we should have.

Many said, here and elsewhere (me included) during the preseason hoopla on his hiring and what we had coming back that he would take us above annual Mullen end of season and on to the "next level". Thus the disappointment, I hope this wasn't the next level or "Championship Standard" results.

[Tbonewannabe]

Many said, here and elsewhere (me included) during the preseason hoopla on his hiring and what we had coming back that he would take us above annual Mullen end of season and on to the "next level". Thus the disappointment, I hope this wasn't the next level or "Championship Standard" results.

That same what if should be applied to this season. We catch 2 passes and we win 10 games. Doesn't even take into account the UF drop that probably changes the outcome of the game. Then 3 dropped passes determined your opinion?

[Goldendawg]

The reason we only won 8 games and lost 5 is simple. That di** that came on here after the KSU game and said there was no way this team would lose more than two games. Said it was impossible and railed anyone stating otherwise. Don't remember who it was but that right there jinxed us. Even if you believe that to be true you don't mess with good juju like that.

We already have issues with indians etc. you don't tempt the football gods like that when dealing with Mississippi State*

And one tribe in particular was very angry when Fitz when he broke his word to the baseball team and didn't get that Mohawk!**** Hail State!

[Goldendawg]

Many said, here and elsewhere (me included) during the preseason hoopla on his hiring and what we had coming back that he would take us above annual Mullen end of season and on to the "next level". Thus the disappointment, I hope this wasn't the next level or "Championship Standard" results.

NM.

[Goldendawg]

That same what if should be applied to this season. We catch 2 passes and we win 10 games. Doesn't even take into account the UF drop that probably changes the outcome of the game. Then 3 dropped passes determined your opinion?

Yeah, I've heard many coaches say that 2 to 3 plays determined the game, usually when they are making excuses for the loss. Hail State and on to 2019 and stay away from water parks!*****

[TrapGame]

He hasn't lost me yet so my answer to your question is n/a.

Me too.