Service academies

[msstate7]

When I was younger, Air Force was the best. Then navy rose up. Lately army is king. Why is it only 1 seems to be good at a time? Do the athletes that are service academy material all decide to go to one together?

[Todd4State]

It probably has more to do with the coaches at each school at that particular time. Air Force had Fisher DeBerry who was really good. Then Navy got Paul Johnson. Army made some bad hires while Navy transitioned to Ken Niamatulaloa or however you spell it. Now Army has Jeff Monken who I think is the best service academy coach right now.

[Goldendawg]

I sure spent a miserable night at the Liberty Bowl under Jackie watching the Air Force option game destroy our D many moons ago.

[RocketDawg]

I sure spent a miserable night at the Liberty Bowl under Jackie watching the Air Force option game destroy our D many moons ago.

Navy was pretty good about that same time too though, weren't they? Wasn't that about when Staubach was there?

[BrunswickDawg]

Navy was pretty good about that same time too though, weren't they? Wasn't that about when Staubach was there?

Staubach was Navy QB in the 60s.
Jackie was our coach in the 90s.
Couple of decades difference there.

[Dawgowar]

Usually you have two of the three bowl eligible consistently - their recruiting and development is so more complicated in terms of appointments and athletes getting eligible. They get no leeway on academics. Even with a year at one of the prep schools there is no promise the kids will stay the course (essentially they are going through two freshman years).

Navy and Air Force play in conferences. Navy is in the the American Athletic Conference that has actually gotten pretty tough. It has had an effect. (They had been cake walking it) What was a reasonable schedule can turn into a bitch for that caliber of program if the competition gets noticeably better. Army has an independent schedule that has some good games but also some cupcakes. They should now consistently win 6-7 games like Navy was - until/if Lafyette, Fordham, Lehigh, Colgate and such start a revival of east coast football. Okay, West Point is playing a mostly cupcake schedule.

All the academic and military admissions requirements makes it very easy to miss on a position and then you will pay dearly. Right now Navy has 'missed' or lost on QB's since their last stud graduated three years ago. Three weeks ago if they had any of their last four starting QB's they would have walked away from Army. An 'off' OL year (Air Force's current issue) makes our Croom O-lines look like the 68 Packers. Let's say they get decent on that next year and Army has their stud RB and only decent TE injured - total reversal.

Every now and again one of the academies gets too far away from the option based offense that tends to work for them - this leads to bad, bad, football. West Point fell for that for about 10 plus years.

Reference your last question - couple of categories. Some guys know the academies are the only hope of playing legit D-I equivalent Football. They will go to the first academy that can offer. Others will go to the ones who offer a family connection. Some will prioritize based on current record. Mostly the it is just a willingness to sacrifice five years for a great education, life experience, and patriotic service for what they view as the privilege to play football. Truly the game matters to those guys like nothing you have ever seen.

My Dad is Class of 1961 Navy. I have been to more Navy games that State games. 9 years Army officers with plenty of West Point and Air Force Academy buds. Just passing what I know.

[RocketDawg]

Staubach was Navy QB in the 60s.
Jackie was our coach in the 90s.
Couple of decades difference there.

Who'd we play in the first Liberty Bowl? Was thinking we played AF sometime during that timeframe.

[Goldendawg]

We played and won the last Liberty Bowl played in Philly. I was about eight or nine years old and watched on TV. Jack said that it was so cold in the pressbox that the coffee froze in the cups, '63 maybe?

[BrunswickDawg]

We played and won the last Liberty Bowl played in Philly. I was about eight or nine years old and watched on TV. Jack said that it was so cold in the pressbox that the coffee froze in the cups, '63 maybe?

Yes, '63. Played NC State.

[Liverpooldawg]

I sure spent a miserable night at the Liberty Bowl under Jackie watching the Air Force option game destroy our D many moons ago.

Me too. Air Force put on a triple option clinic.

[Liverpooldawg]

Navy was pretty good about that same time too though, weren't they? Wasn't that about when Staubach was there?


Good Lord no. Staubach was a generation earlier at least.

[Dawgowar]

Staubach was class of 1964, won the Heisman in 63.

[parabrave]

Yes, '63. Played NC State.

A couple of the players for the 63 team used to post on here. One died a couple of years ago. I can't remember their names though.

[bulldawg28]

I sure spent a miserable night at the Liberty Bowl under Jackie watching the Air Force option game destroy our D many moons ago.

I remember that early 90's game. We couldn't score or stop them that night

[Leroy Jenkins]

Service academy ball will always be limited by the size of the linemen. They have to be within height-weight standards for their particular branch of service before graduation in May. For example, if I'm 6'3" my max weight is 220lbs... 6'4" 225lbs etc. USNA waives the ht/wt standard during your playing time but you have to be within standards before graduation. So if I am a 6'4" guard I can't add any more weight than I think I can realistically drop between the end of the season in January and graduation in May. That's how you end up with an OL that averages 280lbs. Back in the day, everyone had an OL/DL that size so it was easy to compete, not so anymore.

[Bully13]

I sure spent a miserable night at the Liberty Bowl under Jackie watching the Air Force option game destroy our D many moons ago.

I was there and lived in Memphis at the time. Horrible game. I'll never forget that white airforce dude "intercepting" the toss sweep pitch sleepy made too our RB and taking it to the house.

[WSOPdawg]

Me too. Air Force put on a triple option clinic.

One of the coldest games I remember attending (partially due to having to sit on the concrete of the Liberty Bowl).

[Bully13]

One of the coldest games I remember attending (partially due to having to sit on the concrete of the Liberty Bowl).

From my memory, the liberty bowl when usce played was colder.

Driving home after losing to upig sucked as bad as the missed fg in the sleet. Cold, miserable & pissed was I
I.

[Mutt the Hoople]

The Service Academies do well to run an offense totally opposite to what everybody else runs. Here in Burleson, Texas, my daughter's High School runs the Service Academy option offense. Why? Because the school has a lot of smart scrappy little kids but no real athletes. So, they run the old wing-option offense, hard-nosed defense, and win 8-10 games a year. This year they went to the third round of the Texas playoffs before losing.

Their offense is perfect for the Service academies. One of our linemen signed with Army and is now a lineman at West point.

[viverlibre]

Service academy ball will always be limited by the size of the linemen. They have to be within height-weight standards for their particular branch of service before graduation in May. For example, if I'm 6'3" my max weight is 220lbs... 6'4" 225lbs etc. USNA waives the ht/wt standard during your playing time but you have to be within standards before graduation. So if I am a 6'4" guard I can't add any more weight than I think I can realistically drop between the end of the season in January and graduation in May. That's how you end up with an OL that averages 280lbs. Back in the day, everyone had an OL/DL that size so it was easy to compete, not so anymore.

I'm surprised they can't take a tape test or body fat measurement to meet the requirement(s) for entering active duty. In the 90s, I lived on the tape test!

[Pit Bull]

I think Army has one or more National Championships to its credit back in the day close to WWII.

[Todd4State]

I think Army has one or more National Championships to its credit back in the day close to WWII.


One of MSU's biggest wins back in the day in the 1930's was over Army at West Point. I would love for us to play the service academies OOC at least some. It fits with MSU's ROTC history- especially Army.

[Tbonewannabe]

From my memory, the liberty bowl when usce played was colder.

Driving home after losing to upig sucked as bad as the missed fg in the sleet. Cold, miserable & pissed was I
I.

That 2000 Ark game is the worst that I have sat through and the ending made it even worse. At least the Snow Bowl, we won but it also wasn't as bad as staying wet in 34 degrees.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think Army has one or more National Championships to its credit back in the day close to WWII.

According to Wikipedia, Army has 5 National Championships. 1914, 1916, 1944, 1945, 1946. We beat Army in 1935. Army ended up 6-2-1 and our record was 8-3.