Trevor Lawrence

[msstate7]

Let me start this by saying I absolutely love Lawrence as a player. He's freaking awesome, and he will be a good nfl qb for a long time. With that said, this hype is getting a little over the top. Jesse Palmer is saying Lawrence may be the best freshman qb ever. I opened Facebook, and I see a 247 article saying Lawrence may be the best freshman qb ever. Uhhh, Jesse and 247... what about last season? Take a look at this...

Lawrence:
202/326 (.650) 2606 yds 8.0 yds/att 24 td 4 int
154.04 passer rating (19th in country) 79.0 qbr (12th in country)

Fromm in 2017:
181/291 (.622) 2615 yds 9.0 yds/att 24 td 7 int
160.09 passer rating (8th in country) 84.1 qbr (6th in country)

Fromm did this against much better competition. Does espn or 247 even research the crap they put out?

[Commercecomet24]

Good stuff 7. I agree with everything you said.

[HoopsDawg]

I have posted this before but pretty cool...

pass speed:

Goff: 57 mph
Wentz: 57 mph
Mahomes: 55 mph
Jameis Winston: 55 mph

Trevor Lawrence: 61.4 mph.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

If they're basing this off passing talent & not just #'s id probably agree that Lawrence is the best true Freshman I've ever seen. Fromm #'s were similar but I never watched Fromm last year & said he's a future #1 draft pick. There have been times this year where I've seen Lawrence make some throws that made me say wow.

[HoopsDawg]

If they're basing this off passing talent & not just #'s id probably agree that Lawrence is the best true Freshman I've ever seen. Fromm #'s were similar but I never watched Fromm last year & said he's a future #1 draft pick. There have been times this year where I've seen Lawrence make some throws that made me say wow.

I'm say wow when he throws a simple WR screen. He puts the ball on the WR faster than any QB I have ever seen. 2021 #1 pick. I really like Fromm too.

[MetEdDawg]

I have posted this before but pretty cool...

pass speed:

Goff: 57 mph
Wentz: 57 mph
Mahomes: 55 mph
Jameis Winston: 55 mph

Trevor Lawrence: 61.4 mph.

You forgot Fitz: 77.6 MPH**

[msstate7]

If they're basing this off passing talent & not just #'s id probably agree that Lawrence is the best true Freshman I've ever seen. Fromm #'s were similar but I never watched Fromm last year & said he's a future #1 draft pick. There have been times this year where I've seen Lawrence make some throws that made me say wow.

Michael Vick wowed me more than both as a freshman, but pretty sure Vick was a RS

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Michael Vick wowed me more than both as a freshman, but pretty sure Vick was a RS

Yep RS Freshman. I haven't seen a better True Freshman & even with Vick he amazed more with what he did with his legs & his passing complimented that.

[Lord McBuckethead]

And Newton. Dude did hit mid 70s

[Leroy Jenkins]

Prisoner of the moment syndrome.

[msstate7]

Maybe Fromm doesn't have the physical tools of Lawrence, but I'm really becoming a huge Fromm fan. I'm a saints guy, and I see a little drew Brees in fromm. Guy is really accurate. While he doesn't have a rocket arm, he can make all the throws and puts an unbelievable touch on them. He's at 175 passer rating this year, and I expect him to join the 200+ club next year. Since 2009, only Russell wilson, Baker mayfield (x2), tua, and kyler Murray have did it. I dream about the saints somehow getting Fromm to replace brees

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Prisoner of the moment syndrome.

Who's a better True Freshman QB?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Maybe Fromm doesn't have the physical tools of Lawrence, but I'm really becoming a huge Fromm fan. I'm a saints guy, and I see a little drew Brees in fromm. Guy is really accurate. While he doesn't have a rocket arm, he can make all the throws and puts an unbelievable touch on them. He's at 175 passer rating this year, and I expect him to join the 200+ club next year. Since 2009, only Russell wilson, Baker mayfield (x2), tua, and kyler Murray have did it. I dream about the saints somehow getting Fromm to replace brees

I don't disagree with none of that that you said but none of that sounds like the most talented Freshman QB ever does it?

[msstate7]

Who's a better True Freshman QB?

I say Fromm and the stats back it up.

I realize your point and it's a good one about physical talent. Cam newton is more talented than drew Brees ever thought of being though, and he ain't close to drew as a qb

[msstate7]

I don't disagree with none of that that you said but none of that sounds like the most talented Freshman QB ever does it?

Only Jesse and 247 said "best", not "most talented"

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I say Fromm and the stats back it up.

I realize your point and it's a good one about physical talent. Cam newton is more talented than drew Brees ever thought of being though, and he ain't close to the qb as drew

Yea but Lawrence has the stats & talent to back it up. Also say Lawrence plays 2 more games like Fromm played last year those stats will favor Lawrence also.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Only Jesse and 247 said "best", not "most talented"

I think both adjectives are accurate.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Also as good as Travis Ettiene is Lawrence doesn't have Chubb, Michael, & Swift in the backfield.

[msstate7]

Yea but Lawrence has the stats & talent to back it up. Also say Lawrence plays 2 more games like Fromm played last year those stats will favor Lawrence also.

You think his rating and qbr will go up against the best defenses he's seen this year? Rating and qbr are the ones to look at imo

[msstate7]

Also as good as Travis Ettiene is Lawrence doesn't have Chubb, Michael, & Swift in the backfield.

Clemson has the better WRs though, no?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Clemson has the better WRs though, no?

Wynn Hardaman & Godwin are NFL guys. I think Clemson WR are more physically talented but also younger. Higgins Rodgers, & Ross are Soph Soph & Freshman. Renfrow is a Sr.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

You think his rating and qbr will go up against the best defenses he's seen this year? Rating and qbr are the ones to look at imo

I think Lawrence is clearly better. I do like Fromm but I think there's a clear talent gap. That will only grow as Lawrence plays.

[msstate7]

This will be settled next year in the title game... Georgia vs Clemson

[Ifyouonlyknew]

This will be settled next year in the title game... Georgia vs Clemson

Deal

[msstate7]

Deal

Loser buys winner super bowl tix to see drew Brees' last game after winning back-to-back Super Bowls haha

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Loser buys winner super bowl tix to see drew Brees' last game after winning back-to-back Super Bowls haha

Since we're dreaming why don't we just buy the winner a car.

[dawgday166]

This will be settled next year in the title game... Georgia vs Clemson

Not happening.

Bama beats Ga in SEC title game. Ga blowing them out by 35 at half. Tua & Hurts both get knocked out of game. Bama's 3rd string QB comes in, leads them back to a double OT victory, and they all 3 group hug after game for a real special and awe inspiring Kodak moment ... so sweet.

The script needs to be better than this year. They have a writer working on it now. ****

[StarkVegasSteve]

Lawrence is a generational QB as is Tua. I really hope we get Clemson/Bama because I think it could be one of the great QB duels we've seen in a championship in a very long time.

[dawgday166]

I'm betting Tua doesn't last long in NFL.

[RougeDawg]

Clemson has the better WRs though, no?

Wait??? You said WR talent has nothing to do with QB stats, right? I mean you constantly act like Fitz has NFL receivers like most SEC teams and the Clemson?s of the world. Hell, state may not have any CFL receivers currently.

At some point you have to pick a stance and stick to it.

[msstate7]

Wait??? You said WR talent has nothing to do with QB stats, right? I mean you constantly act like Fitz has NFL receivers like most SEC teams and the Clemson?s of the world. Hell, state may not have any CFL receivers currently.

At some point you have to pick a stance and stick to it.

Of course WRs matter to a point. If you think the only difference between tua, fromm, and fitz's passing ability is the WRs, I'm not sure what to say to that. Surely if fitz is just as good a passer as them, the nfl will recognize this and take him top 2 rounds like Fromm and tua. I'm sure you'll be proven right...

[Pit Bull]

Good stuff 7. I agree with everything you said.

I think Clemson will beat Notre Dame and Trevor Lawrence, IMO, 1) has no mobility to escape an average SEC pass rush and 2) better plan on hitting short pass routes in order to get the ball out of his hand within 2 seconds when they play BAMA for the NC. Because 2 seconds will be all he has before Quinnen Williams and Co. totally collapses his protective pocket.

[Commercecomet24]

I think Clemson will beat Notre Dame and Trevor Lawrence, IMO, 1) has no mobility to escape an average SEC pass rush and 2) better plan on hitting short pass routes in order to get the ball out of his hand within 2 seconds when they play BAMA for the NC. Because 2 seconds will be all he has before Quinnen Williams and Co. totally collapses his protective pocket.

I believe you're probably right about that.

[BrunswickDawg]

Of course WRs matter to a point. If you think the only difference between tua, fromm, and fitz's passing ability is the WRs, I'm not sure what to say to that. Surely if fitz is just as good a passer as them, the nfl will recognize this and take him top 2 rounds like Fromm and tua. I'm sure you'll be proven right...

Except that is not what Rogue said. You are deflecting. The fact is that when Fitz had better receivers ('16) his numbers were better. It's interesting that Fitz had 3, 300 yard+ passing games (including a 400+ game) with Ross, Gray, and a healthy Mixon in '16, but hasn't broken 250 yards in a game since. And yes, I realize those games were against UMass, Arky and Samford - but without those performances in those games, we lose all 3. Fred Ross and Donald Gray won those 3 as much as anyone - Ross in UMass and Arky, Gray against Samford (52 yards a catch with 3 TDS). You think we win them with Mitchell and D Thomas as our main weapons? Not a chance.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I think Clemson will beat Notre Dame and Trevor Lawrence, IMO, 1) has no mobility to escape an average SEC pass rush and 2) better plan on hitting short pass routes in order to get the ball out of his hand within 2 seconds when they play BAMA for the NC. Because 2 seconds will be all he has before Quinnen Williams and Co. totally collapses his protective pocket.

If you think Lawrence has no mobility you haven't watched him. He's no Fitz but he's far from a statue.

[msstate7]

Except that is not what Rogue said. You are deflecting. The fact is that when Fitz had better receivers ('16) his numbers were better. It's interesting that Fitz had 3, 300 yard+ passing games (including a 400+ game) with Ross, Gray, and a healthy Mixon in '16, but hasn't broken 250 yards in a game since. And yes, I realize those games were against UMass, Arky and Samford - but without those performances in those games, we lose all 3. Fred Ross and Donald Gray won those 3 as much as anyone - Ross in UMass and Arky, Gray against Samford (52 yards a catch with 3 TDS). You think we win them with Mitchell and D Thomas as our main weapons? Not a chance.

Here's his quote that started this...


"Another Fitz bashing thread. Give Fitz the receivers if just about any other SEC team and he is right up there with anyoothee SEC qb. Our lack of receivers has more to do with his passing than he did. Why are some so dense on this subject."

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?71978-Brandon-Wimbush-transferring-from-Notre-Dame

...

So you in the camp with rouge that the only difference in fromm, tua, and fitz passing is WR play? You seriously wanna take that position?

ETA... 2016 was fitz's best passer rating at 124.33. Fromm is at 175.81 (3rd nationally). Tua is at 202.30 (2nd nationally). You guys are such homers you've lost all common sense

[Jack Lambert]

Here's his quote that started this...


"Another Fitz bashing thread. Give Fitz the receivers if just about any other SEC team and he is right up there with anyoothee SEC qb. Our lack of receivers has more to do with his passing than he did. Why are some so dense on this subject."

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?71978-Brandon-Wimbush-transferring-from-Notre-Dame

...

So you in the camp with rouge that the only difference in fromm, tua, and fitz passing is WR play? You seriously wanna take that position?

I wouldn't take that position but you have to admit his passing percentage would have been better with out all the dropped passes this season. Plus one dropped pass lost the Florida game.

[msstate7]

I wouldn't take that position but you have to admit his passing percentage would have been better with out all the dropped passes this season. Plus one dropped pass lost the Florida game.

Better? Absolutely. Better to the point of being elite like fromm and tua? Not even a chance.

Fitz just isn't that kind of qb. Those 2 aren't even close to fitz as a runner either though

[BiscuitEater]

Does espn or 247 even research the crap they put out?

Is that a REAL question .. or did you just forget the **?

[BrunswickDawg]

Here's his quote that started this...


"Another Fitz bashing thread. Give Fitz the receivers if just about any other SEC team and he is right up there with anyoothee SEC qb. Our lack of receivers has more to do with his passing than he did. Why are some so dense on this subject."

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?71978-Brandon-Wimbush-transferring-from-Notre-Dame

...

So you in the camp with rouge that the only difference in fromm, tua, and fitz passing is WR play? You seriously wanna take that position?

ETA... 2016 was fitz's best passer rating at 124.33. Fromm is at 175.81 (3rd nationally). Tua is at 202.30 (2nd nationally). You guys are such homers you've lost all common sense

On nos! I missed a quote in another thread? How could I have done that.

And I'm not making that claim. I simply agreed that Fitz's numbers were negatively impacted by the ability of his receivers. And it's true. When Fitz had Ross and Gray, he had his only 300+ yard games, and his passer rating was higher. And we attempted more passes. Significantly more. Ross and Gray were head and shoulders above anyone on the team the past 2 years.

So you are in the camp that we have receivers as good as any other SEC team? You seriously want to take that position?
You have to win arguments so badly that you make shit up constantly from simple statements and deflect arguments in a different direction when the facts don't back you up. No one in this thread made a statement about Fitz having Trevor Lawrence or Fromm's stats or abilities.

[msstate7]

On nos! I missed a quote in another thread? How could I have done that.

And I'm not making that claim. I simply agreed that Fitz's numbers were negatively impacted by the ability of his receivers. And it's true. When Fitz had Ross and Gray, he had his only 300+ yard games, and his passer rating was higher. And we attempted more passes. Significantly more. Ross and Gray were head and shoulders above anyone on the team the past 2 years.

So you are in the camp that we have receivers as good as any other SEC team? You seriously want to take that position?
You have to win arguments so badly that you make shit up constantly from simple statements and deflect arguments in a different direction when the facts don't back you up. No one in this thread made a statement about Fitz having Trevor Lawrence or Fromm's stats or abilities.

Remind me again... when did I bring fitz into this thread? Rouge has been bringing that argument from thread to thread.

WRs make a difference, but qb play matters. Why do you think Bama went from not being able to complete a pass last year in the natty to airing it out? Bc tua is elite... it wasn't bc they replaced all the WRs

ETA...


Fitz passer rating:
2016 = 124.33 (9th in sec)
2017 = 117.55 (11th in sec)
2018 = 121.35 (13th in sec)

That's the difference. Fitz is a consistent bottom of the sec passer. He is an elite runner though. Why do facts bother you guys?

[HoopsDawg]

Remind me again... when did I bring fitz into this thread? Rouge has been bringing that argument from thread to thread.

WRs make a difference, but qb play matters. Why do you think Bama went from not being able to complete a pass last year in the natty to airing it out? Bc tua is elite... it wasn't bc they replaced all the WRs

ETA...


Fitz passer rating:
2016 = 124.33 (9th in sec)
2017 = 117.55 (11th in sec)
2018 = 121.35 (13th in sec)

That's the difference. Fitz is a consistent bottom of the sec passer. He is an elite runner though. Why do facts bother you guys?

How's that song go? You will miss me when I'm gone? I've got a feeling we will all be missing Fitz next year.

[parabrave]

Michael Vick wowed me more than both as a freshman, but pretty sure Vick was a RS

Did Peyton RS?

[msstate7]

How's that song go? You will miss me when I'm gone? I've got a feeling we will all be missing Fitz next year.

Don't get me wrong, I love fitz. Fitz is a great run first qb. I just do not buy in the he's a good a passer as any other sec qb if WRs are equal. If dan Mullen could 3D print a prototypical Qb for his offense, it's fitz with a bit more passing accuracy. I don't think fitz is the prototypical qb for Moorhead's offense though.

[msstate7]

Did Peyton RS?

No, but he didn't throw but 144 passes.

[smootness]

Trevor Lawrence, IMO, 1) has no mobility to escape an average SEC pass rush

Wut

If you've never seen a guy play, or even highlights of him, just admit it.

[RougeDawg]

Here's his quote that started this...


"Another Fitz bashing thread. Give Fitz the receivers if just about any other SEC team and he is right up there with anyoothee SEC qb. Our lack of receivers has more to do with his passing than he did. Why are some so dense on this subject."

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?71978-Brandon-Wimbush-transferring-from-Notre-Dame

...

So you in the camp with rouge that the only difference in fromm, tua, and fitz passing is WR play? You seriously wanna take that position?

ETA... 2016 was fitz's best passer rating at 124.33. Fromm is at 175.81 (3rd nationally). Tua is at 202.30 (2nd nationally). You guys are such homers you've lost all common sense

Your reading comprehension is lacking. I said give those other QB?s our receivers and Fitz theirs and tell me all QB numbers would be the same as they currently are. Never said anything about Fitz being as good at the others talent wise. I said his numbers would be much better if he had as much help as those other top QB’s with multiple 4+ Star WR’s. I was simply pointing out the common sense fact that a better supporting cast makes a QB look better.

You don?t think Fitz would have a higher completion percentage with just one Ridley type WR, like almost every SEC not MSU has? Let?s add in a couple more nfl caliber receivers, like the top SEC teams have. Like the Georgia, Bamas, LSU?s, A&M?s among other have. If we had any inkling of WR talent comparable to the teams mentioned we are sitting with 1-2 losses right now.

And yes I stand by the fact that if given the WR talent that the other SEC teams have, fitz is right up there in the conversation as the QB you’d want running your team. A QB like Fitz with WR that actually go catch the ball is dangerous. A Fitz with WRs that up his percentage close to 65%, is a Fitz that has more open running lanes than he has when he’s jut above 50% completion. Fitz offensive production plays on itself and when WR talent limits one aspect of his game, defenses can key on the other aspect and shut both down by only focusing on one.

See how that simple logical walk through explains how better WR talent makes Fitz a top 3 SEC when you have WR talent that opens up his running abilities?

[msstate7]

IYOK, I just bet on your boy at the golden moon (+6). I'm holding you responsible if I lose haha

[Cooterpoot]

Hard to believe GA let Lawerence and Watson out of state. Fromm isn?t that great. Good, not great.

[msstate7]

Hard to believe GA let Lawerence and Watson out of state. Fromm isn?t that great. Good, not great.

They signed fields the year Lawrence left

[msstate7]

Hard to believe GA let Lawerence and Watson out of state. Fromm isn?t that great. Good, not great.

Fromm finished the year 5th nationally in passer rating and 3rd nationally in QBR. He's a little better than just good

ETA... the guy you guys thought was a super star (Bryant) was 60th nationally in passer rating last year