Clemson and MSU

[Dawgfan77]

The money thread really showed that we aren't poor old MSU anymore, but something is missing.

I started to look at Clemson, and there recent rise into the national spotlight and what was the biggest difference over the last three years compared to MSU. Some might not know this but Clemson is actually modeled after MSU, I am not going into detail, but you can google to find out all the specifics.

I understand they play in the ACC, and they do have an MNC back in 81, but I again I wanted to look at Clemson over the last 3 years compared to what we have done , and what was the major difference. The biggest difference was there commitment to the coaching staff. They went out and got OU's DC in Brent Venables in 2012 and paying him 1.3 MM a year, in 2011 they got the OC from Tulsa a former HS coach by the name of Chad Morris and are paying him 1.2MM. Compare these amounts to what we are paying a Koenning and Collins and as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

At the end of the day, the reason our football team is in the midst of mediocrity is due to the fact we are not all in when it come to paying assistant coaches but we are when paying the HC. I still argue that the majority of funds allocated to the coaching staff at MSU is top heavy with Mullen getting the max amount. Now for those that say money is not the issue due to the SEC TV contracts, then explain why are we not all in when it comes to the coaching staff?

[Dawg61]

Think that's changing soon

[ShotgunDawg]

You make very good points, and paying assistants better will certainly help. However, in comparison to Clemson, Clemson has a major geographical advantage over us. Atlanta, Charlotte, Greenville, SC, and Columbia, SC, are all within a few hours. Furthermore, Clemson is a reasonable drive from Florida. So Clemson's ability to get in the homes with kids from the Atlanta, Orlando, and South Florida areas is much greater than ours.

[engie]

Now for those that say money is not the issue due to the SEC TV contracts, then explain why are we not all in when it comes to the coaching staff?

You tell us. Our athletics revenue has more than doubled since the Croom era. Our coaching commitments haven't. It doesn't even remotely make sense.

[Drugdog]

You tell us. Our athletics revenue has more than doubled since the Croom era. Our coaching commitments haven't. It doesn't even remotely make sense.

Excellent point.

[Dawgfan77]

You tell us. Our athletics revenue has more than doubled since the Croom era. Our coaching commitments haven't. It doesn't even remotely make sense.

I am not sure although the only salary that has increased since 2008 is the HC salary which leads me to believe that the majority of funds allocated to football staff is going toward the HC. I made a post last weekend about this but no one gave a definitive answer. When your are paying your assistant coaches in the lower tier of the SEC you get what you pay for. We have a mediocre staff and we get mediocre results. Clemson was mediocre with Bowden (fired after a 3-3 start) hired there WR coach in Dabo then after a 6-7 season went all in on the staff what followed was 11-2 in 2012 and now are in the NC race in 2013. More money toward staff= better coaches, better recruiters and better results on Saturday. Does anyone here think Dabo is a better X's and O's coach than Mullen??

[Goat Holder]

^^^ This.

Geography is something that's always held back, ever since they decided to locate in Starkville instead of Meridian. We claim 'Our State' and we're not even ideally located within our own damn state. People may say "well look at Ole Miss"....well, no, don't do that. They market a regional area, a certain group of people. Their marketing is different than ours. We are MISSISSIPPI State, so unlike Clemson/Auburn, we are tied heavily to the state of MS. I'd say many people in Georgia almost consider Clemson/Auburn an in-state school. I know they do in the Florida Panhandle too, at least Auburn.

So what do we do about it? Well for starters we need to try and make West Alabama (including Mobile) ours to an extent. We'll never beat Alabama, but we need to try and compete with Auburn based on location. Obviously we need to have a much better presence on the MS Gulf Coast. After that, we need to be looking to Louisiana/Arkansas/Tennessee. If we want to get cute, maybe we pull resources from Houston or Atlanta.

[Dawg61]

This is OUR Deep South

[Coach34]

In response to coaching salaries- people get all upset about Mullen's salary, but he is still 10th or 11th in the SEC in salary. The other coaches that trail him are 1st year coaches.

One thing people dont take into account is the public school system and low income kids in Mississippi. We lose so many kids to grades each year that could be on a roster helping us or OM. There are kids from the Delta that are freakish in talent but never make it anywhere because of their circumstances. Makes for a strong juco system- but it really hurts our schools moreso than others. And that is just one disadvantage we obviously have.

[Dawgfan77]

In response to coaching salaries- people get all upset about Mullen's salary, but he is still 10th or 11th in the SEC in salary. The other coaches that trail him are 1st year coaches.

One thing people dont take into account is the public school system and low income kids in Mississippi. We lose so many kids to grades each year that could be on a roster helping us or OM. There are kids from the Delta that are freakish in talent but never make it anywhere because of their circumstances. Makes for a strong juco system- but it really hurts our schools moreso than others. And that is just one disadvantage we obviously have.
Actually coach I think we are 8th or 9th and 13th in asst coaching salaries

[cheewgumm]

Doesn't it matter which assistants you pay? For instance , if we had paid croom's assistance more would they have been better? No

[engie]

Doesn't it matter which assistants you pay? For instance , if we had paid croom's assistance more would they have been better? No

Paying shitty assistants more money is obviously not the answer. You have to try hard focusing on the outliers to not to understand that more money = better coaches.

What if we had paid Hud $1mil as an OC? Good chance he'd still be here. Mullen is just too hard headed -- and too cold shouldered with our boosters to get these types of things done. As such, the 2011 class fell apart. Diaz was gone either way. Same for Brewster.

The thing I like about Hud is that people love working for him. They would be far more apt to stay -- and he'd be far more apt to get them the money they deserved through whatever means necessary(friend of big boosters)...

I don't understand why Tony Hughes is getting a free pass at this point? Everyone is bitching about assistant coaches -- yet I haven't heard his name come up once -- and he has to have one of the easiest positions on the team to actually coach. And it's on the second year of being terrible after losing an NFL talent...

[AlSwearengen]

In response to coaching salaries- people get all upset about Mullen's salary, but he is still 10th or 11th in the SEC in salary. The other coaches that trail him are 1st year coaches.

One thing people dont take into account is the public school system and low income kids in Mississippi. We lose so many kids to grades each year that could be on a roster helping us or OM. There are kids from the Delta that are freakish in talent but never make it anywhere because of their circumstances. Makes for a strong juco system- but it really hurts our schools moreso than others. And that is just one disadvantage we obviously have.


Coach, maybe you can point out just one advantage that we have being located in the state of Mississippi. I can't think of a single one.

[Dawgfan77]

Hughes is also our best recruiter so do you run off your best recruiter.

Also to answer the Croom asst coaches. Just because you pay a lot of money to shitty coaches doesn't mean you get results. What I am arguing is that we make an investment in great assistant coaches not just throw money at what we have now

[HoopsDawg]

Per capita, there is a lot of talent in this state.

[Dawgfan77]

Per capita, there is a lot of talent in this state.
Yes there is but it's raw and why we have to invest in GREAT coaches

[nsvltndog]

I get that we have to be smart about where we spend money, but we've done some of that already by not trying to compete for the Sears Directors Cup that represents success across all sports. We've made the decision to skip M/W swimming, M/W lacrosse, Rowing, Gymanstics, Wrestling, Ice Hockey, and I'm sure some more beyond those. I'm not sure all these count towards Sears award, but suspect that most do. We save a ton of money by not having to fund facilities and scholarships in those sports which would likely water down our budget dramatically. It fits the mold of embrace who you are and we are not a school that can compete nationally for 30+ sports. I think we are a school that can compete at a high level and demand success in the sports we fund and play.

Given the increases in giving and conference revenues, I agree that we have to find a way to be much more competitive in the coaching salary arena. That doesn't mean give all of our coaches huge raises right away, but the ones that we want to make sure that we keep long term need to know we are committed to them so they are all in and not interested in even listening to similar competing job offers b/c of how well cared for they are by MSU. A few splash hires with keeping up the jones' salary structures would be a good sign by our AD of his commitment to keeping the program highly competitive in the SEC.

[Political Hack]

Hughes is getting a little bit of a pass. His son is out for the season, Nickoe hasn't really recovered from being hurt, Cox got pulled down to Cb, Quad can't stop targeting people, Wells moved to LB, Coman just got back from Hargrave, Market doesn't have SEC top end speed, etc...

Give him Hughes, Cox, a healthy Nickoe, Wells, and a 2nd year Coman and we'd be pretty well off at S.

[bulldawg28]

Paying shitty assistants more money is obviously not the answer. You have to try hard focusing on the outliers to not to understand that more money = better coaches.

What if we had paid Hud $1mil as an OC? Good chance he'd still be here. Mullen is just too hard headed -- and too cold shouldered with our boosters to get these types of things done. As such, the 2011 class fell apart. Diaz was gone either way. Same for Brewster.

The thing I like about Hud is that people love working for him. They would be far more apt to stay -- and he'd be far more apt to get them the money they deserved through whatever means necessary(friend of big boosters)...

I don't understand why Tony Hughes is getting a free pass at this point? Everyone is bitching about assistant coaches -- yet I haven't heard his name come up once -- and he has to have one of the easiest positions on the team to actually coach. And it's on the second year of being terrible after losing an NFL talent...


So your blaming Mulle n for coaches salaries? Administration knows the differences in what our guys get paid and other universities. It has absolutely nothing to do with Mullen. And who cares if Hud brownoses boosters. All that does is gives more power to them to run programs. When that happens politics on who plays takes over and more violations because more people have their hands in the pot. Hud hasn't proven jack squat in the SEC or ULL for that matter. Brewster going to FSU was/is a no brainer. Your trying too hard for Hud.

[engie]

So your blaming Mulle n for coaches salaries? Administration knows the differences in what our guys get paid and other universities. It has absolutely nothing to do with Mullen. And who cares if Hud brownoses boosters. All that does is gives more power to them to run programs. When that happens politics on who plays takes over and more violations because more people have their hands in the pot. Hud hasn't proven jack squat in the SEC or ULL for that matter. Brewster going to FSU was/is a no brainer. Your trying too hard for Hud.

In short, YES, I'm blaming Mullen. Stricklin talks all the time about how he allows Mullen to be the AD of the football program. That includes coaching salaries and raises. It's got TON to do with Mullen. And the fact that our boosters don't like him doesn't incline them to give more money for a coaching staff that for the most part hates him. He doesn't go to bat for them in any way -- even when they deserve it.

I'm not trying too hard for shit. Hud had a better win last Tuesday than Mullen has had in several years here. Possibly at all. He beat a team that was favored to beat him -- on the road -- and the coach on the other sideline was Bobby Petrino, who Hud made look like a rookie coach in the second half. At absolute worst, Hud is going 9-3 this year. More likely 10-2 if he gets past Arky State next week. Meaning in 3 years at ULL, he's GIVEN THEM THE THREE BEST YEARS IN THE HISTORY OF THEIR PROGRAM. You are trying WAY too hard to downplay that in favor of a guy that's only 3.5% above our historical average in terms of SEC record.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Hud is the most well liked guy in country. From admins to coaches to players. I know first hand. The energizer bunny.

[bulldawg28]

In short, YES, I'm blaming Mullen. Stricklin talks all the time about how he allows Mullen to be the AD of the football program. That includes coaching salaries and raises. It's got TON to do with Mullen. And the fact that our boosters don't like him doesn't incline them to give more money for a coaching staff that for the most part hates him. He doesn't go to bat for them in any way -- even when they deserve it.

I'm not trying too hard for shit. Hud had a better win last Tuesday than Mullen has had in several years here. Possibly at all. He beat a team that was favored to beat him -- on the road -- and the coach on the other sideline was Bobby Petrino, who Hud made look like a rookie coach in the second half. At absolute worst, Hud is going 9-3 this year. More likely 10-2 if he gets past Arky State next week. Meaning in 3 years at ULL, he's GIVEN THEM THE THREE BEST YEARS IN THE HISTORY OF THEIR PROGRAM. You are trying WAY too hard to downplay that in favor of a guy that's only 3.5% above our historical average in terms of SEC record.

Lol...I stop taking you serious when you said beating Western KY was a feat. If Mullen goes to a bowl this year he'll do something no other coach has done ever at MSU. By tying three years bowling that's special at MSU all in itself. And if you know anything about business you clearly understand you can't just name your price and it be that easy. It has to be approved and despite your sources you don't know what Mullen has said behind closed doors.